GaS Hour 3 - #SwampWatch

Marla Tellez fills in for Shannon, this hour #Swampwatch and Kevin Patrick Allen talks about the Jim Tyler Story.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is Gary and Shannon and you'relistening to KFI AM six forty, the
Gary and Shannon Show on demand onthe iHeartRadio app. Chris, nice to
meet you. Chris came in.Chris, I met him for a second.
I said, I'm sorry, ofall days you had a listener in
and it's not Shannon. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. A bunch of stories

(00:21):
that we're following the cicadas. Didyou do any stories on the cicadas?
If you ever experienced the cicadas atall personally out in the wild. No,
no, So they say that cicadachaos is flourishing and flying throughout the
Midwest. Trillions of these bugs arein the air. They're on trees,
they're on people's shirts and has.They're red eyed, they're loud, they

(00:42):
like banging around. The males arechirping for sex, and they won't stop
until they get a female. Cicada'sflapping wing consent. Wow, I'm ashamed
that I just read that line fromthe Associated Press. Are you sure that
was about cicadas? They said thatthere were places in Illinois where these cicadas

(01:06):
have come out of the ground.The decibel level hit one oh one that's
louder than your neighbor's lawnmower. Basically, the great dual periodical cicada emergence of
twenty twenty four not seen since eighteeno three, because you had the two
broods, the seventeen year brood andthe thirteen year brood, and finally their
broods cycles lined up so that theycame out. We have friends who live

(01:29):
in Nashville. They live, thankfully, up on a high rise, so
the cicadas very rarely get up totwelfth floor. But they said, when
you're down downtown, even downtown Nashville, it is gamey with bugs all over
the place. What time of year, all the time, because yeah,
it just started sort of late Mayand it will continue for a couple more

(01:53):
weeks. But are these different thanthe as I'm looking this up, the
Eastern cicada killer? What is that? It's an insect, Eastern cicada killer,
the killer though, yeah, maybethat's a good thing. But they
also said that they shed their skins. That's one of the things that they
do once they emerge from the ground, and they'll they'll land on a wall

(02:14):
or something, they'll break out oftheir old skin and fly away. In
their new cicada skin and then leavethat shell that looks like a bunch of
clear cicadas, thousands of them ona wall, and it's just the creepiest
looking and they crunch under your footand that's disgusting. I'm sorry, I'm
getting getting the chills, and notfor good reasons. Time for swamp.

(02:37):
What swamp is horrible? The governmentdoesn't work, man, It makes it
like a reality TV show. WasBado always a pleasure to be anywhere from
Washington, DC? Hey, Joe, a town hall too, clearly built
on a swamp and in so manyways still a swamp. I have a
watch of my work, he said, Drained the swamp. I said,

(02:58):
Oh, that's so hopey y.You know the thing. Well, today
a big announcement came down from theSupreme Court that the ban on bump stocks
that was implemented by the Department ofJustice, specifically the ATF after the Las
Vegas shooting is not legal and youcan't do it, and the reason is

(03:23):
administrative, not because of the SecondAmendment. The Supreme Court struck this down
today. The decision sixty three splitalong ideological lines. Justice Clarence Thomas wrote
for the majority and said that theATF exceeded its power when it prohibited the
device, which is an attachment.It enables a semi automatic rifle to fire

(03:45):
at a speed that rivals that ofa machine gun. Rivals that. I'm
not going to say it's the samething, but it rivals that for example
a couple of different places. Ifyou want to go on YouTube and look
it up yourself, the difference betweena fully automatic weapon. Let me try
this. Let me turn that upa little bit. I think it's flawless,
it's not magic. There's one.Here's the other. Now I recorded

(04:11):
that, so I know the differencebetween one. I know which one is
which. Can you tell which oneis which? I'm going to say the
first one was bump stock. Firstone was bump stock, second one is
full auto. It's hard to tellthe difference. I don't know if they'd
turn if they even spoke about firingrate when it came to this decision in
this case. But again, thiswasn't a Second Amendment case. Technically,

(04:34):
this was a case that dealt withwhat administrative power the executive branch has when
it comes to something like this.So Justice Thomas wrote, we hold that
a semi automatic rifle equipped with abump stock is not a machine gun because
it cannot fire more than one shotby a single function of the trigger.
And he did include several diagrams ofthe firing mechanism within his opinion. So

(04:58):
there's a couple things. One ofthe issues, according to Shannon Breem,
who is the Supreme Court analyst forFox News, is that this basically says
this is not the right place totalk about The ATF is not the right
place to outlaws something that comes fromCongress. He says, the remedy for
the problem with bumpstocks and machine gunsis about Congress. They have to amend

(05:20):
the law, and if they haddone that, the ATF may have stuck
with its earlier interpretation. Congress isthe one who has to act. That's
so often what we hear from thiscourt where there's a problem, saying they've
got to be the ones to takecare of this statutory language. And that's
certainly what we're hearing from the courtthis time around now. The case itself
was called Cargel versus Garland, andMichael Cargill is the gun shop owner in

(05:45):
Texas who sued the Department of Justicethat generated this case in the first place.
He was very very happy when hetook to Twitter earlier today to celebrate
his win. Let's go ahead andlet them take the bump stock. But
instead I stood and fought. Andbecause of this, the bump stock case
is going to be the case thatsaves everything. It's going to stop the
atf and coming after your embrace thetriggers, all different parts of parts and

(06:10):
pieces that they're trying to ban.And I'm glad I stood up and fought.
So now we have a case thatis a case law that we can
move forward around this country and defendour second amended rights. As always,
more guns equals less crime. Yougo out there and you can buy yourself
a gun, Betty, yet getyourself a bump stock. Have the T

(06:30):
shirts been printed yet? Are thebumper stickers? It's very likely President Trump,
president bump President Trump turned seventy eighttoday. We'll talk about that and
that meeting that took place yesterday withHouse Republicans. We're getting some feedback in
terms of people who were in thatmeeting talking about what was discussed. Trump's

(06:51):
birthday on Flag Day and trump Stock. I remember it. It was his
administra. Yeah, by the way, the big pain stocks even though it's
been written up that the Biden administrationsuffered this blow. But well that's neither
here nor there. All Right,more swamp watch when we come back to
Gary and Channon. You're listening toGary and Shannon on demand from KFI AM

(07:15):
six forty. We remember we didthe story about van lords. Yes,
somebody asked, would that be calleda van lord instead of a landlord?
Which was the whole I don't know. I don't know what people listen to
when they listen. Sometimes, Hey, they're getting ready, I'm so confused.
Maybe that they haven't had coffee yet. In the next segment, at
the bottom of the hour, we'regoing to be joined by documentary filmmaker Kevin

(07:38):
Patrick Allen. He has put togethera movie that is it's called Beneath the
Shadow, and it's a story ofa former NFL football player who was arguably
many people have called him many peoplesay he was the best player to not
be in the Hall of Fame.Now, obviously he was not in the
Hall of Fame because he killed hiswife and himself. But the story about

(08:05):
Jim Tyer is deeper than just that, because he is could be described also
as a guy that we now knowmaybe the oldest diagnosis of chronic traumatic encephalopathy
because of the way he described hisfeelings to his doctor, to his wife,

(08:30):
even all the symptoms of CTE,which of course you can't diagnose until
after death. And this is innineteen eighty, so long before that was
even thing. We'll talk about it. But a layer of this story that
makes it even more compelling is thefact that his in laws of so yes,

(08:52):
you know, you know what inlaws are. I'm going to describe
it to you. They took thefour kids and raise them and never said
a bad word about their son inlaw who killed their daughter, and had
nothing but amazing things to say aboutthis guy. Before we get back to
swamp Watch, we wanted to tellyou that the July fourth Fireworks Spectacular at

(09:16):
the Hollywood Bowl is coming up ina couple of weeks. July second,
third, and fourth. Harry ConnockJunior and his band lead three thrilling nights
of songs and fireworks and fun featuringThomas Wilkins of the La Philharmonic. You
can head out there early and picnicbefore the concert. Kids twelve and under
going to get in half price.Tickets are on sale at Hollywood Bowl dot
com. But the first person whocan tell Mondo at which television station Marla

(09:48):
is employed is going to win twotickets eight hundred five to zero one five
three four eight hundred five to ohone KFI two tickets to the July fourth
Fireworks Spectacle at the Hollywood Bowl.Telmondo what television station Marlo works at?
Well? See hint, no nohints. Donald Trump spent the day before

(10:15):
his seventy eighth birthday, He's birthdaytoday, by the way, talking with
Republicans there on Capitol Hill. Theypresented him with a cake and gifts,
show of loyalty to this guy.He's getting another birthday celebration today in West
Palm Beach, Florida. Members ofthe Club forty seven fan group, we'll
hear from him. This event soldout of the five thousand tickets at thirty

(10:41):
five bucks apiece. Spots closer tothe stage cost sixty bucks apiece. This
is his birthday party that we're talkingabout. Yeah, yeah, I guess
OK. The Biden campaign has comeout with a sort of tongue in cheek
trolling of the President's birthday, theformer president's birthday with a list of the
seventy eight historic Trump accomplishments on behalfof America. Our early gift for your

(11:09):
seventy ninth making sure you are neverpresident again. According to Biden campaign spokesperson
James Singer, the list included multiplefelony convictions in New York late last month,
some of his difficulties as a businessowner, a call for the death
penalty for the Central Park five,which was forty plus years ago. A

(11:30):
video we posted on social media thatreferenced a unified Reich, his handling of
the coronavirus pandemic. I think everybodyloses on that one, his efforts to
overturn the Affordable Care Act, statementstaking credit for ending Roe v. Wade.
The Biden campaign says, happy birthday, Donald. You're a crook,
a failure, a fraud, anda threat to our democracy, economy,
rights, and future, because that'swhat they do. The meeting that took

(11:56):
place yesterday was pretty interesting, thismeeting between Trump and the House Republicans.
They actually said it was a gripefilled closed door meeting, people airing grievances.
He sorry, Aaron Grievance, isabout his legal and electoral challenges.
He went after some of the criticsthat were in the room and then only
briefly addressed the policy matters, becauselisten, that's who the guy is.

(12:22):
I don't expect his conversation tone tochange when he's in a closed door meeting
with politicians. Now, ninety percentof the rallies that he does are an
airing of grievances. Ten percent ofit is any sort of discussion of policy.
Yeah, I mean, we justsaw that when the teleprompter goes down,
which we saw in Vegas, right, he just riffs. And so

(12:43):
this is what he did behind closeddoors. It's the very same thing.
This, by the way, wasthe first time he's been on Capitol Hill
since January sixth, and he metwith Republicans for over an hour, and
it says in between rants about TaylorSwift and former House Nancy Pelosi, he
went after his detractors as he warnedRepublicans to not be afraid of the hot

(13:07):
button issue of abortion. He alsowaded into, in a playful joking way,
the ongoing feud between Marjorie Taylor Greenand Mike Johnson. Marjorie Taylor Green
of course no fan of the speaker, and has threatened a couple of times
to oust him, or at leastto call for a vote to oust him.
He playfully asked Marjorie Taylor Green tobe nice to Mike Johnsonson, and

(13:35):
Johnson after the meeting said that Trumptold him that he was doing a very
good job. He got to adda boy, and then he plans to
be fully prepared to implement Trump's plansif he wins in November. All right,
up next, we'll talk with thefilmmaker who's trying to raise the curtain,
shall we say, sort of alift some of the mystique around a

(13:58):
mystery, a mysterious death, amurder suicide involving an NFL player from forty
plus years ago. Gary and Shannonwill continue Marla's in for Shannon. You're
listening to Gary and Shannon on demandfrom KFI AM six. Forty Father's days
coming up for a bunch of people. Happy graduation for everybody, including yourself,
Happy Flag Day, all of thatgood stuff. I celebrate Flag Day.

(14:22):
I'm wearing a flag red. Nowyou are wearing a flag, and
you're wearying the red to remember everyonedeployed a reminder that late in the show,
we do what you learned this weekon the Gary and Shannon Show.
And you can always leave us amessage on the talkbacked feature on the iHeart
app where you just click that littlemicrophone button and it goes straight to us
the little message that you leave.Yep, and we still have entertainment coming

(14:43):
up with Jason Nathansen and Double Jeopardyfor Gary. A couple of years ago,
we spoke with a friend of mine, longtime friend of mine, Kevin
Patrick Allen, documentary filmmaker who thankfullygot out of radio to do what he
really is talented, and that's atell even better stories. One of the
stories that he has followed for along time is about Jim Tyr, who

(15:09):
was a Kansas City Chief's standout footballplayer, really legendary for being the guy
who protected Len Dawson when he wasthe Chief's quarterback and arguably a first ballot
Hall of Famer up until a tragedyended his life and his wife's life.

(15:31):
Jim Tyrer ended up shooting and killinghis wife, Martha and himself. These
days, the assumption would be thatit was chronic traumatic encephalopathy because of what
we know now forty plus years later, but at the time that was not
the case, right nineteen eighty.This was a nineteen eighty murder suicide.

(15:52):
Kevin is joining us now to talkmore about some of the developments since we
first talked about this case. Kevin, thanks for taking I'm for us man,
Thank you, thank you. Allright, So, this the documentary
that you put together is called Beneaththe Shadows coming out soon, right,
Yes, the story of Jim Tyer'scareer, the tragic end, does not

(16:18):
end after the murder suicide, becausehis kids went on to live with Martha's
parents. Martha's their grandparents moved intothe house actually and ended up taking care
of them. And I know thatyou've spoken to the kids. What's what
was their life like in the immediateaftermath of this, Well, well,
I tell you they were lucky tohave the grandparents that they did. These

(16:44):
grandparents actually moved into the house withinhours of the tragedy. In fact,
they moved into the room where themurder suicide happened. And I mean understand
this is their daughter, their firstworman, But their focus was on Demo's
grad kids back into school, tryingto get them on the right track,
and the grandparents had had this,you know, they've lived through tragedy themselves

(17:11):
leading up to that, so theyreally kind of guided these kids that,
hey, we're going to get moving. And you know, two days after
the funeral, the eldest son goesin place for his high school team and
wins the game, and you canimagine in Kansas City, everybody's on their

(17:32):
feet. It was just like ayou know, it's just like a moment
that hey, this kid is notgoing to let this to find him.
And of course, you know,to this day they struggle with it,
but they have not let it ruintheir lives. Yeah, it's really,
in one way, an inspiring storyof how they've turned this tragedy into i

(17:57):
mean, triumph is a strong word, but the fact that they've dealt with
it in the way that they haveis pretty remarkable. Kevin, you took
this on in twenty nineteen. Youknow you're on this mission to get him
into the Hall of Fame. Whydid you take this on in the first
place? And how likely is itthat you will get the attention of the

(18:19):
NFL to make this a reality?Yeah, you know, there's people in
your life that you don't really knowwhat their backstory is. When you think
about the bartender that talks to everybodyand kind of hears their sad stories but
never shares his well, the eldestdaughter was a hairdresser in the Kansas City

(18:44):
area and she had cut my wife'shair for years and had been essentially that
bartender to many people. And asI talked to why, I found out,
Oh, your last name is tired, you know, Jim twer,
wish your dad and that, andthat got me to where I, you
know, have to know the siblingand spend out about their lives just and

(19:07):
it amazed me the way that they'velived their lives. Like the youngest daughter
she found the bodies, and thatshe is a operating room nurse for kids
and has done that job for twentyodd years. And they say, no,
nobody stays in that kind of jobfor that long. Well she does

(19:32):
because she seemed worse than she's evergoing to see. So there's just one
thing after another where this family hasbeen able to take a terrible situation and
you know, use it, useit for other people in their lives.
When you when you took this on, when when you heard the story and

(19:55):
thought about it. Did you immediatelyjump to a conclusion that this was probable
an early undiagnosed case of CTE?You know, because of my reporting background,
Gary, I was a little bitcynical. Of course, I'd thought
about that, But I've been infront of the house for murder. Suicides

(20:17):
have happened, and everybody always sayswe had no idea. So I had
my doubts. But the more Idug into this guy's past, I mean,
this is a guy I com playedfor fourteen years in the NFL and
was All Pro nine times, andhis teammates said he got drunk once to

(20:40):
their knowledge. Yeah, I mean, he was really the all American story.
I think your reporting really took aturn when you talked to extensively a
former Kansas City internist who had beenburdened about this memory about Jim and Martha
Tyler. Talk just a little bitabout that, right, It's all just

(21:03):
down my eyes from crossing. Myteam just closed them out this story,
and I send out a phone message. I'm thinking, maybe this doctor isn't
evenna live anymore. Somebody that hadseen higher phone rings Within two minutes,
the guy said, not only that, I've seen my son the day before
the murder suicide, and it's burdenedme for forty years. Wow, hang

(21:26):
on, Kevin, hang on onesecond, because this is fantastic. Can
you hang on for another and doanother segment with us, of course on
plate, just a little bit ofa teaser, And this is the audio
that you sent me about your conversationwith that doctor. I said, Jim,
how are you feeling the same?Just don't feel good, you know.
And he just kind of sat therelike this, kind of looking down

(21:49):
the floor, you know, AndI said, you know, you think
you might have have some depression.He goes, Oh, it's more than
that. This is something wrong.Yeah, even Jim himself knew that that
was not just a depression thing.So Kevin, hang on for one second.
We'll come back here and finish upthis story again. Kevin Patrick Allen,
director of producer, writer for Beneaththe Shadow, the Jim Tyre story

(22:11):
about a former Kansas City Chiefs playerwho we now can pretty definitively say suffered
from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which ledhim to murder his wife and then kill
himself. We'll talk about that whenwe come back. You're listening to Gary
and Shannon on demand from KFI AMsix forty. This week Shannon comes back

(22:32):
to Monday. I guess it'll beafter the vacation. Hopefully we already have
our winner, because you just gaveit away. I guarantee we have all
been already. Beneath the Shadow isan upcoming documentary about Jim Tyer, a
one time Kansas City Chiefs player.Arguably, it's been described as the greatest
football player that's not in the Hallof Fame, and that at least is

(22:56):
partly because September fifteenth, nineteen eightyJim and killed his wife Martha before he
turned the gun on himself. Hewas a first ballot finalist for the Hall
of Fame at the time of themurder. Time of the murder. Yeah,
we're talking with Kevin Patrick Allen,who is behind the movie Beneath the
Shadow, and this discussion of whatwe now know as chronic traumatic and cephalopathy

(23:22):
has come up obviously with movies aboutbrain injuries in football. We saw the
suicide of Junior Seau several years agowhere he knew also that something was going
on, and Kevin was able tocatch up with a former Kansas City doctor
who's now practicing in Florida, whotalked about this memory of Jim and Martha

(23:44):
Tire and having seen Jim and MarthaFriday, just literally the weekend before the
tragedy, before this happened, andhe even described that moment in watching them
leave that day from their appointment.Probably the biggest part of it was when

(24:07):
we went out in the hall andshe grabbed my arm and said, there's
something wrong with you. Kind ofscared me in a way. That was
the last time I saw I rememberas they left, I remember watching him
and worrying about it. You know, the way that you grabbed me,
looked in my eyes. You know, it got to so Kevin, when

(24:33):
you talk to the doctor, obviouslythere was no autopsy that was performed back
in nineteen eighty. How can hebe so certain that this was CTE?
Oh do we have Kevin Brandon?Do we have Kevin? Sorry about that,
Kevin? Yeah, gotcha? Now, how can the doctor be so

(24:55):
certain about CTE? There are problemsa dozen different things, including the symptoms.
When Mark Attire dragged him in tosee the doctor on that Friday,
he said, he just checks everysingle box, and the circumstantial evidence also
weighs in on that he says hasan interest. His whole job is to

(25:19):
diagnose complex cases. And you know, the way you put it to me
is that if a wattack, adoc quacks water runs off it's back and
its name is Daffy. It's nota zebra. He just knowing more,
he was he was just so frustratedby the fact that this couple is desperate

(25:41):
to figure out what's going on,and in hindsight, there's no way that
they could know for another twenty nineyears. Yeah, and you know,
this fight for the acknowledgment from theNFL, even hearing from this intern is
who saw him and makes it clearthat he had CTE as far as he's

(26:06):
concerned, do you think that thiswill your work, Kevin will sway the
NFL. I mean, it's ajuggernaut. It'll take the public getting behind
this. I'll tell you this.Me, the eldest tired son and I
went to visit the Concussion Legacy Foundationin the Brain Bank and they had the

(26:30):
same conclusion. And what Chris Nowinsky, the CEO, told me was,
I can't imagine they'd want to evenentertain the thought that you could forgive somebody
for that act because it was actuallyfootball that caused it, and for us
forgiveness from the NFL. We're talkingabout a family, four kids who lost

(26:57):
their mom and dad. Who's youknow. The in laws who lived in
the room where the murders who sidtook place, they said they could smell
their daughter's blood in the floorboards.They were able to forget. So this
is not a matter of forgiveness.This is a matter of acknowledging that we're

(27:19):
part of this. Our legacy ismessy, but when we are continuing to
move forward, make money, andgrow, why should this family have to
have this burden after all these manyyears. The doctor that you spoke to
also said something very similar to that. I'll play that cut here it is,

(27:41):
and knowing more about what happened,I think he deserves even more to
be in the Hall of Fame becausefootball is the reason why he did what
he did. I mean, that'sa pretty damning statement. It's an amazing
thing because there is a lot ofwork that obviously not enough. There is

(28:03):
a lot of work and acknowledgment thatfootball has made in the context of brain
injury and specifically CTE. They've comeup with different rules. You know,
they've changed some of the rules,They've changed helmets and things like that.
But Kevin is there. Does thefamily want anything from the NFL? I
mean outside of acknowledgment that their dadwas a good guy who became victim of

(28:29):
this cte. But do they wantanything from the league? No, No,
they really don't. And they're sucha proud family as you're can imagine
the resilience that they show that whenthe concussion settlement came through a number of
years ago, they rejected the money. Lawyers were banging on their door and
they said, we don't want anything. We know who our dad wants.

(28:56):
What they want is not to havelittle reminders on social media and a little
memes and a little you know,dark trivia about their dad without any context
of what happened and what they've beenthrough and him getting into the Hall of
Fame. And by the way,the NFL does not have a morality clause

(29:21):
when it comes to Hall of Fame. It's what happens between the white lines.
What they want is to be ableto put a stake in the ground
and say let's call this what itis, and you know, stop side
stepping messy legacies when you have one, When can people check out your work,

(29:41):
your documentary Beneath the Shadows. Ihope very soon. We've had conversations
with several big distributors and you know, honestly, until I found this,
there was this feeling of gosh,there's not a bow that wraps this up.

(30:06):
There's not a conclusion to this.Well, there never will be for
the kids. But we know whatthe truth is now, and I think
it's going to take guts on thepart of the distributor as well. This
is a complex thing. You can'tjust say it's Eviel and you can't just

(30:26):
you know, look the other way. You're gonna have to have some critical
thinking and a willingness to look ata big picture. You can actually help
Kevin get this film out. Donateto Beneath the Shadow through the Film Collaborative
here in LA and we'll throw alink up on our social media so that
people can do that. But itis a tax deductible donation again to donate

(30:49):
to Beneath the Shadow. Kevin Mangreat work. We're excited to see this
thing when it finally sees the lightof day and we get to we get
to all watch it. Thanks foreverything, Thanks for your work. Hey,
thank you too, you bet KevinPatrick Allen. Again, the movie
is Beneath the Shadow, and youcan help fund it through the Film Collaborative,

(31:10):
which is based here in LA.You can just search for Beneath the
Shadow and it comes up and howyou can help them out. It's very
cool. It's so complicated and socomplex. All right, work all of
our trending stories. We're going todo entertainment. Jason Nathan's is going to
join us, and then what youlearned this week on the Gary and Shannon
Show. Right after this, you'vebeen listening to the Gary and Shannon Show.
You can always hear us live onKFI AM six forty nine am to

(31:33):
one pm every Monday through Friday,and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.