Mission Roll Call & National Hire a Veteran Day

Ryan Gorman hosts an iHeartRadio nationwide special featuring Cole Lyle, Executive Director of Mission Roll Call. Cole Lyle joins the show ahead of National Hire a Veteran Day to discuss various issues impacting veterans nationwide, from mental health challenges to access to health care to employment. Cole also explains the work Mission Roll Call does in advocating for veterans, including the unique challenges faced by rural and tribal veterans.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to iHeartRadio Communities, a publicaffairs special focusing on the biggest issues impacting
you. This week, here's RyanGorman. Thanks so much for joining us
here on iHeartRadio Communities. I'm RyanGorman, and we have a very important
conversation lined up for you, solet's get right to it. This Tuesday
is National Hire a Veteran Day,and joining me to talk about this and

(00:23):
other veterans related issues, I haveco Lyle, executive director of Mission Role
Call. You can learn about allthe work they do for veterans all across
the country at Mission roll call dotorg. Cole, thank you so much
for ticket a few minutes to comeon the show and we'll get to National
Hire a Veteran Day in just abit, But first let's start with an
overview of the work your organization does. Yeah, first of all, thanks

(00:47):
for having me on, Ryan,It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
Mission roll Call is a national advocacyprogram that focuses on three specific things
suicide prevention policy, access to healthcareand benefits, and representing traditionally underserved populations
in the veteran community across the country, namely tribal and rural veterans. We

(01:10):
do this. We've got about onepoint four million veterans and supporters that have
subscribed to our text and email pollsthat we then use. Whenever the VA,
the White House, or Congress proposesa policy or a piece of legislation
that could potentially affect the veteran communityin one of these three areas, we
poll that community and then it provideinstantaneously that feedback to the policymakers that are

(01:38):
proposing whatever it is, so thatwe can give them a more informed understanding
of how the betteran community feels abouta particular piece of policy or legislation.
We've been doing this for years.Over the last two or three months or
so, I've been up on theHill testifying a couple of different times about
a couple of different bills. Sowe aim to provide you know, the

(02:00):
veterans direct unified voice to policymakers.And I know one piece of legislation that's
been passed and signed into law thatyou played a very active role in,
the Pause Act. Can you stepus through what that process is like,
the work on a piece of legislationlike that, and the work that goes

(02:22):
into trying to get it passed throughCongress and signed by the President. Yeah.
I mean it's important to understand thework that I did with the Pause
Act was actually not with Mission RollCall at the time I started doing that.
That was how I got involved inbetteran advocacy back in twenty fourteen.
You know, I had issues withpost traumatic stress, you know, try

(02:46):
to utilize the VA system that didn'twork for me. Sought another option,
which was service dogs. But theVA didn't provide any funding for service docs
for veterans and post traumatic stress orother psychological or physical mobility issues. So
I drafted piece of legislation that ultimatelygot sponsored by then Congressman to Santists before

(03:06):
he was this big national figure,and we worked and it was a very
bipartisan effort, even in the heatedtwenty sixteen election year to get that passed.
And it took a few years becauseyou know, I didn't have any
institutional backing. I wasn't a partof any organization at the time, so
it was just me and my dogKai going around and talking to people about

(03:29):
the need and the solution to thatneed that we've proposed, which was expanding
funding to service talk organizations so thatthe PA didn't have to reinfort the wheel.
And it was hard. I mean, you had some people at the
VA, you know, opposing itfor different reasons. You know, you

(03:49):
had kind of parochial interests in Congressand different committees that would that would fight,
and I was still a full timestudent at the time, going back
and forth from Texas, A andM. So it took a lot of
years and some back and forth andsome kind of wrangling, but eventually it
got passed and kind of a compromisedversion in twenty twenty one and President Biden

(04:13):
signed it into law. But youknow, after a law passes, implementation
is really where the rubber meets theroad. So the agency takes the law
that Congress passes and provides, youknow, rulemaking and regulations per congressional intent,
which may or may not actually meetCongressional intent, and so you have
to go back and maybe Congress hasto through their oversight and appropriations abilities,

(04:39):
forced the agency to do what theyoriginally intended. So that's kind of where
we're at. But even if it'sdogs and puppies, which this was seemingly
too or excuse me, veterans andpuppies seemingly two very bipartisan things be very
difficult to pass laws just for variousreasons. It's tough, like less than

(05:02):
one percent of all bills that getintroduced in Congress ultimately get passed. So
let's say the Pause Act is implementedand up and running as it was intended
to be, what will that dofor veterans across the country. Well,
the original Pause Act that I wrotewas a grant program, like I said,

(05:25):
that would provide direct grant funding toservice dog organizations. Kenines for Warriors
is one in Florida that people knowwell. And again it was so that
the BEA didn't have to get intothe dog training business and reinvent the wheel.
They could just provide grant funding toorganizations that were already doing it that
already had good nine nineties. Butthrough the years that idea kind of got

(05:48):
a little compromised. That was beforeCongress passed the Fox Grants, which was
funding to organizations and suicide prevention,So we were kind of trying to institute
something that was unprecedented at the time. It got passed as a pilot program
and five different locations across the countryto provide keynine training to veterans, and

(06:10):
at the end of the training theywould end up keeping the dogs, so
it was kind of a win winfor everybody. And after a certain period
for the pilot program, Congress couldthen go back and permanently authorize the program
and expand it. But we're alreadyseeing implementation problems at the VA because frankly,
you know, certain officials don't believein the whole more holistic approaches to

(06:34):
mental health and suicide prevention. Becauseyou've got people that run the Veterans Health
Administration that frankly spent years of theirlives and hundreds of thousands of dollars going
to medical school learning the traditional approachesto mental healthcare and suicide prevention that are
reticent to admit that what they've learnedand their processes are not working and have

(07:00):
not worked, which objectively, youknow, they haven't talk therapy and pharmacology.
We're not going to prescribe and counselour way out of the mental health
epidemic in the United States or thesuicide epidemics. So we already have Congress
coming up and trying to go backto the original bill that I authored to

(07:23):
provide grand funding, because I thinkthat's really the only way that we're gonna
see significant improvement by BA on thisissue. I'm Ryan Gorman, joined by
Coal Lyle, the executive director ofMission Role Call. You can learn more
and support this organization at Mission RoleCall dot org. Can you spend a
moment on your personal experience with Kayaand why service dogs have become such a

(07:49):
useful resource for veterans who are dealingwith PTSD. Yeah, you know,
so post traumatic stress and mental healthissues like it have become you know,
quote unquote the signature wound of veteransin the war in Iraq and Afghanistan,
and as these the American public haskind of a stewed perception on veterans.

(08:13):
They think they're either broken and dysfunctionalwith post traumatic stress or you know,
their special operations high speed kind ofguys. When the reality is there's a
lot of folks in the middle.But for those like me that have struggled
with post traumatic stress but still learnto mitigate the symptoms and lead successful lives,

(08:35):
you know, we don't necessarily needthe pills, we don't necessarily need
the therapy, or we will havetried them and they didn't work for us,
but we still need to find away to figure out how to deal
with those symptoms. And I thinkanybody that's ever owned a dog can tell
you that they can be extremely therapeuticeven if they're not trained. But a
legally protected and trained service dog istrained to perform what are called work tasks

(09:00):
that can help with any number ofdifferent symptoms that you have. For instance,
Kaya was trained to wake me upfrom nightmares and use what it's called
animal assisted intervention to stop anxiety attacks. So they can do extraordinary things,
and these are extraordinary dogs. Youknow. The VA and other people will

(09:20):
say that there's not enough empirical evidence, when in fact, the VA Zone
study that they did part of thePause Act program has said that there was
a significant reduction in suicidal ideation andsymptoms of postraumatic stress. So they can
be incredibly powerful to this end,and I think frankly the VA as a

(09:41):
whole, and this is one ofour big initiatives at Mission Roll calls to
try to get the VA to movethe Office of Suicide Prevention as a direct
report to the Secretary and make ittheir number one overall priority because it's not
always and most of the times it'snot a mental health issue. We need
to decouple. Looking at suicide asa strictly reality is when somebody gets to

(10:05):
that point where they are hopeless andthey feel unloved and all these different things,
it is likely a conglomeration of issuesdriving them to that point. Acute
financial stress, relationship stress, maybethey're going through a divorce or a breakup.
It could be exacerbated by existing mentalhealth issues. It could be substance
abuse, it could be any numberof different things. And asking veterans,

(10:28):
hey, if you have these problems, called the Veteran Crisis Line, wish
you should if you are in crisis, that the great resource. It's still
a very reactionary approach. You're alreadyhaving those symptoms, you're already dealing with
those difficulties, right. So weneed to catch these veterans upstream before they
have this kind of perfect storm ofissues that leads them to spiral down this
path to suicide. And that involvesempowering community organizations with grant funding through the

(10:56):
Fox grants that I mentioned earlier thatdeal with acute financial stress relief, the
deal with relationship counseling, that dealwith peer to peer support. All of
these different things can catch a veteranbefore they spiral down that path. But
the VA looks at this problem andthe Office of Suicide Prevention is in the

(11:16):
Mental Health Office, where they spendthirteen billion dollars annually on talk therapy and
pharmacology and pills which have a slewof negative effects as well. So it's
important that we work and try toget the VA and Congress to force the
VA to really embrace these different approachesand provide more funding to grant programs because

(11:41):
less than fifty percent of veterans inthe United States used the VA, and
so there's half of the population thatthey're not even touching. And these community
organizations can really be a forced multiplier. And you're not saying get rid of
something like talk therapy, correct,You're just saying we want to add these
other options in that could be effectivefor different people. Yeah, of course,

(12:03):
I mean I still use to thea M. I go to a
counselor event center. I don't youknow, I don't go to a psychologist
or a psychiatrist, but you know, I still I still go to counseling
every once in a while because Ifind it helpful, and I would never
advocate for getting rid of those options. They work for plenty of people,

(12:24):
but you know the reality is thatthey don't work for everybody, and some
people are reticent to use pills becauseof the negative effects after they've tried,
which is what happened with me andtalk therapy. You know, prolonged exposure
doesn't work for everybody when you're talkingabout symptoms of post radic stress. So

(12:46):
trying to embrace some of these moreholistic approaches to mental health. I know
there's a lot of anecdotal evidence thatmedical marijuana helps, there's no empirical evidence
because it's still scheduled one, sothe government can't even research if it works
or not. But there's a lotof different approaches to this issue that can

(13:09):
and should be utilized to fight thisproblem, because, like I said,
most or half of veterans don't evenuse the VA. Some of them don't
use it because they have private healthinsurance, but there's probably a pretty high
percentage of veterans that don't use itbecause of the horror stories in the lack
of trust in the VA itself,because of the historical issues with that agency,

(13:35):
and it's bureaucracy. I'm Ryan Gorman, joined by co Lysle, executive
director of Mission Role Call. Youcan learn more about this organization at Mission
role Call dot org. Some ofthe things that you've been advocating for as
we've been having this discussion, I'massuming this is what you're hearing from the
one point four million or so veteranmembers of Mission Role Call. This is

(13:58):
the feedback you're getting from veterans acrossthe country. Yeah, and outside of
just the polling data. Last year, in twenty twenty two, we did
ten or eleven outreach trips across thecountry. It was a geographically diverse tour,
you know. We went to California, Texas, Florida, Montana,
Idaho, all different parts of thecountry, Alaska, talking with policymakers on

(14:26):
the ground, talking with veteran serviceorganizations and individual veterans themselves to kind of
inform some of this data. Toget context for why people may have answered
a certain way. We looked atindividual experiences in those areas. For instance,
LA had a very low approval ratingfor the veterans out there, had

(14:48):
a low approval rating for their VAsystem as opposed to the Dallas Fort Worth
area that had a pretty high approvalrating. So we talked to different communities
and said, you know, whatis working. Why do you guys have
a high approval rating versus like areasthat did not, what is not working?
And why do you guys not likethis system? So that we could
go back to Congress and say,this is what we're hearing from veterans on

(15:09):
the ground, and this is thedata we have to back it up.
And you know, Congress as thisyear have been pretty receptive. So that
but that's kind of our mission andwhat we do, and we do it
because we want to see the suiciderate lower and we want veterans to have

(15:30):
timely access to good quality healthcare,whether or not that's from the VA system
or with community providers. We've talkedabout suicide prevention before, but I think
it's always important to remind everyone ofthe scope of the problem. Can you
just give us an overview of howprevalent this is within the veteran community,

(15:54):
especially compared to the general population.Yeah, so it is a a very
tragic and heavy topic to discuss.But if you believe the VA statistics right
now, about seventeen veterans per daycommit suicide, and the veteran community at

(16:15):
large is about one and a halftimes more likely tikinite suicide than their civilian
peers. And it's a complex topicbecause, as I mentioned before, there's
no one thing we can point toand say this is why, you know,
veterans are taking their lives. Andunfortunately, you know, the data
is sometimes seemingly contradictory to what youwould think would be reasons. Right,

(16:40):
So people that went to combat zonesare actually, according to the data,
less likely to kill themselves than peoplewho did not experience combat. People in
the garden reserve are tend to beat a higher risk. People that you
know, served three years or lessor got a demotion and while they were

(17:00):
in the military have a higher predispositionto kill themselves. So some of the
data is a little contradictory than whatwe know, but there is emerging evidence.
Scientific studies, Operation Deep Dive beingone of them that Duke University is
doing collaboration with America's Warrior Partnership,actually suggest that because the VA does not

(17:26):
use these statistics for overdose steps whatare called self injury mortalities, that the
suicide rate amongst former service members couldbe as high as forty four a day
because the individual states all collect datalike death data, not in a uniform
manner, So California and Florida orNew York and Texas ways that they verify

(17:49):
somebody who kills themselves, the waythey verify their status as veterans is completely
different. And then they sometimes willcount overdoses as suicides and sometimes not.
That data gets to the CDC.The CDC sends it to the VA,

(18:10):
and they have their own methodology forcounting. You know, how many veterans
even exist in the United States?The census data estimates twenty twenty one seventeen
point four, but the VA useslike an eighteen point two million number,
which we're not really sure why that'sthe case. So the data itself seems
to suggest that the rate is higherthan the VA's stated number at seventeen per

(18:33):
day, which I mean, eventhat is very tragic, but it is
when I talk to veterans around thecountry, it's frustrating because it's you rarely
need a veteran that either doesn't knowsomebody themselves or know somebody whose friend that

(18:55):
they served with killed themselves, Likeit's it's a pretty high, like anecdotal,
Like everywhere you go, people areaffected by this and the veteran community.
And clearly, the VA's is thelargest healthcare system in the country and
should be the lead on any effortwith regards to suicet prevention. But they

(19:18):
can't tackle this on their own.They have to utilize community organizations, and
they have to look at this problemin a more holistic approach or we're not
going to get anywhere with this problem. Ryan Gorman here with coal Lyle,
executive director of Mission Role Call.You can learn all about this organization and
support the tremendous work they do forveterans across the country at Mission roll call

(19:41):
dot org. So, Cole,let's talk about National Higher a Veteran Day
coming up on Tuesday. In additionto all the issues we've been talking about
facing veterans in this country, employmentis also an issue and this is a
day to bring awareness to that.So tell us a little bit more about
it. Yeah, National Hire aVeteran Day, as you've noted, is

(20:04):
observed every year on July twenty fifth. Marine Corps Veteran and Hire our Heroes
founder Dan Caparrali created the day asa call to action for companies to hire
and encourage veteran job applications. Yearsago, the veteran unemployment rate during the
height of Iraq and Afghanistan was higherthan the national average, and since then

(20:26):
there's been a concerted effort by publicentities like the VA and the DoD and
the White House and private companies toohigher veterans to reverse that trend. Now,
you know, we see that theveteran unemployment rate for the last few
years has actually been lower from thenational average, and I think for a

(20:48):
number of different reasons, because youknow, veterans bring competitive skills to civilian
jobs and then also some intangible,you know, soft skills and leadership abilities
that make them good fits for asemployees and as employers. Mission roll Call
did a research study that last yearthat was representative of the national population that

(21:11):
said that Americans overwhelmingly think that veteransmake good employers and good employees. So
we're happy to see that the nationalaverage for veteran unemployment is low currently,
but we want to make sure thatit stays low. And that's kind of
the purpose and attamp behind days likethis. What are some of the challenges

(21:32):
for veterans when they return home fromserving overseas trying to get back into the
workforce. Most veterans, you knowthe Transition Assistance program as you transition out
of the military. It has apretty notoriously awful reputation for actually getting veterans

(21:56):
and activeuty service members prepared for lifein the civilian world. And there's a
pretty high percentage of veterans that getout that don't have a job lined up
or aren't in school, so theyhave to kind of navigate this process without
their genet command, without their peersupport network, in a completely kind of
different cultural environments in the military andthe civilian world, which can be pretty

(22:19):
daunting, and there's frankly a lotof what I call paralysis by analysis.
There's a lot of different options andthere's a lot of different programs that veterans
can utilize, so some of themjust it takes them a couple of months,
but luckily, most veterans find ajob within a year of leaving the
military. But the DoD has comeout with programs like skill Bridge to try

(22:45):
to ensure that service members have optionsbefore they even leave the service. Skill
Bridge is designed for active duty servicemembers within one hundred and eighty days of
leaving the service to go do whilethey're on active duty and getting paid to
duty, pay do internships with corporations, big companies and small company to try

(23:06):
to get some experience and hopefully havea job before they even get out of
the military. How much does thattransition impacts the mental health of veterans.
How much is that a part ofsome of the struggle that we hear about
once they return home. Well,it can. It's hard to say definitively

(23:26):
that it negatively impacts one or positivelyimpacts one way or the other. You
know, I think that the biggesthurdle is just a cultural shift that I
was talking about, going from anorganization where you are serving with people with
a similar mission and a similar mindset, and it's it's very much a kind

(23:49):
of a team mentality, and it'sjust a different culture than going to the
civilian world. And you've got toremember, most of these young men and
women signed up at a high schooland the military is all they've ever really
known. And then they get outand now they're expected to, you know,
take care of themselves again, butwithout those kind of support networks and

(24:11):
chains of command that they have hadfor the last you know, a few
years or longer in the military,So it can be fairly daunting and probably
could lead to some negative mental healtheffects. But you know, I think
veterans tend to rise to new challengesand that's one of the reasons that makes

(24:33):
them good employees. So it's hardto say definitively if that has a huge
effect one way or the other,but it could. But I don't think
that's as big of an issue asmaybe say, making sure that they have
access to quality healthcare and benefits atthe VA, or getting them plugged into
a peer support network or community provideror something like that. And how supportive

(24:56):
have businesses small and big, likebeing towards the hiring of veterans and making
sure that our veterans are taken careof in the workforce. You know,
there are plenty of initiatives, particularlyat the larger corporations, to higher veterans
and internally, uh, you know, corporate veteran initiatives to make sure that

(25:21):
veterans are have a community within organizationsand that they are their progress is encouraged
and they're encouraged to thrive within companies. I mentioned earlier, you know,
public and private partnerships between uh,you know, there was the Governor's Challenge
that the Obama's instituted from the WhiteHouse to try to get more veterans hired

(25:47):
at corporations. I think, likeI said, born out by the study
that Mission Roll Call did, mostemployers see veterans as a value add because
they bring specific skills to the tablebased on their military experience. But they
also bring uh, you know,small unit leadership, and they also bring
a very a very good work ethicand a very good team mentality. So

(26:11):
you know, I think they makegood employees. I think most people recognize
that there are you know, theoutliers that, as I mentioned earlier,
people tend to think of veterans aseither you know, these these they have
these skewed perceptions of veterans as eitherspecial operations and great leaders or broken kind
of dysfunctional. And so there mightbe some outliers that have some incorrect and

(26:34):
negative perceptions of veterans as employees.But I think the data and you talk
to most people and they'll tell youthat veterans make great employees. I'm Ryan
Gorman, joined by coal Lyle ExecutiveDirector, of Mission role calls. I
don't think I want to touch onthe work you do advocating for tribal and
rural veterans. What are some ofthe unique challenges that they face. Yeah,

(27:00):
I think the biggest one is justaccess to healthcare right. People on
tribal lands and reservations and people inrural communities, say in Montana or Alaska,
just have access issues because they tendto have to drive a lot farther
to go to a VA facility.So this is one of the reasons why

(27:22):
we've been very supportive at Mission rollcall of codifying the access standards in the
Mission Act. The VA has hastried to kind of undermine the Mission Act
of twenty and eighteen because it alot of veterans are starting to utilize the
program, particularly in tribal and ruralareas, because they want to if they

(27:42):
have to drive three hours to aVA facility versus like one hour or less
to a community provider, they shouldhave that option. They should have that
choice. But the VA in somecases is reticent to let in certain areas,
veterans kind of flee the use ofthe eight facilities because then you know,

(28:03):
the next year following year, theywould see a decrease in funding as
the expansion of community programs expand.So that's one of the reasons we advocate
for them. I think, youknow, even in communities tribal in particular,
even telehealth can be sometimes a challengebecause they don't have access to the

(28:26):
same kind of internet capabilities and thingsthat the average American does, So there
can be a lot of different accessissues, and particularly to suicide prevention because
these communities have different cultures, likerural communities and tribal communities have different cultures
than say communities in big cities likeNew York or Washington, DC or Los

(28:51):
Angeles. They tend to be moretight knit, more close, but a
little wary of kind of outsiders.So it's harder for the VA and community
organizations to come in and try toaffect change on the ground and help promote
those policies. But we're doing thebest we can to advocate for their needs

(29:11):
on Capitol and hopefully Congress. Listen. Coal Lyle, executive director of Mission
Role Call with us. You canlearn more and support this organization helping veterans
at Mission Role Call dot org andagain this coming Tuesday, is National Hire
A veteran day Cole really appreciate obviouslyyour service to this country and your time.

(29:33):
Thanks so much for coming on theshow. All right, Thank you,
Ryan, always a pleasure. AllRight. That's going to do it
for this edition of iHeartRadio Communities.As we wrap things up, want offer
big thanks to our guest Coal Lyle, and of course to all of you
for listening. I'm your host,Ryan Gorman. We'll talk to you again
real soon.