January 28, 2024 • 32 mins
Cate Holahan is a USA Today Bestselling suspense author and screenwriter.
She has six standalone novels and is co-author of the #1 Audible bestselling series Young Rich Widows, which is coming to print April 2024.
She’s written two original movies for MarVista Entertainment which have aired on Fox’s Tubi: Deadly Estate (March 2023) and Midnight Hustle (August 2023)
She has six standalone novels and is co-author of the #1 Audible bestselling series Young Rich Widows, which is coming to print April 2024.
She’s written two original movies for MarVista Entertainment which have aired on Fox’s Tubi: Deadly Estate (March 2023) and Midnight Hustle (August 2023)
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to theWriter's Class. Yes, y'all, it's
been a long time since I've doneone for the Writer's Class. I mean,
you know, for a podcasts,you got to pick one every once
in a while. You're like,well, no, this week doesn't feel
like you know, the Ladies.Well, it could be the Ladies stole
podcast because like my guess is alsoa screenwriter, so that kind of works
right now, it's just the tossup. But I don't want to use
(00:23):
the time. Hmm. Okay,anyway, you guys do not care about
the little problems of administrative stuff forpodcasts. That is not what you're here
for. Because if you were,I would hate my podcasts. It would
be technical. And I can't standthose. Yeah, no, I'm sticking
to that. I had to thinkabout that. No, I can't stand
those anyway. I won't own themsemi professionalism. I would do a better
(00:47):
dance with my shoulder hurts. Andyou know, I'm getting a little old
now, so gotta keep it small. And I wrote books. Imagine that,
you know how Like when I saidthat, I said that, like
I surprised myself. Boom. Yeah, So there are eighteen of eighteen of
them now yep, because there usedto be seventeen. We wrote one more.
(01:08):
That's eighteen, and we finished upone more before the end of the
year. December the twenty third,we finished up one more, so that
makes nineteen. And if I'm fortunate, I'll do another one by the end
of January and I'll be twenty.Anyway, the books are and I thought
Divorces bad, and I thought beinggrand up was easy if only I were
mem Memoir and burse Wittles, webWittles, Debt and Foreign Coffee. If
(01:32):
you're keeping track, those are sixjust six. Yeah, you're like,
where are the rest? Because that'sa long list and no one wants to
hear the rest, right exactly,But those six books are where audiobooks can
be found, yay, because youdon't want to read the book. You
want to listen to the book,and I need to get paid to do
that. With the serious face righthere. But you're here to hear about
me, although I really wish youwere. I could tell you all about
(01:53):
my ankle, my poofy, messyhair, and this wonderful necklace that Jade
got me and I threw on althoughit was supposed to with a formal dress.
Looks good though, it looks likea whole caller Like I'm like,
I'm trying to be a Supreme Courtjudge. Yeah no, not too many
years in law school. You can'thear about my wonderful guests. Wonderful guests.
Would you like to introduce yourself?Yeah, well, thank you so
(02:15):
much for having me. I'm KateHollahan. And I now feel like a
schlub because I do not have twentybooks I have. I have six books
out there, plus I write theYoung Rituitable, Young Rich Widow's audio series.
I co author that with three othergreat female authors. And in addition
(02:35):
to that, I'm a screenwriter.I've had a couple TV movies made and
yeah, still still plug it awayat it. So that's me. I
was about to end this interview becauseI'm jealous more successful court. So I've
always wanted to be a screenwriter andhave something made. I think all of
(02:57):
the authors do. How does thatfeels? It's been good, you know.
So I actually did a crazy thingduring COVID. All the bookstores were
closed and I had a book comeout, and I did not know how
I was going to market it atall because all the bookstores were closed,
and so I freaked out and said, I'm going to get a screenwriting degree
at grad school. And so Iapplied to grad school and was one of
(03:17):
the oldest people in the program aroundall these twenty year olds, God bless
them and their youth, and thenthere was me. But I got a
screenwriting degree from NYU Tish and thenwhile I was in school, I sold
two movies of the Week to marVista tub and that's how I paid for
grad school. So that was alwaysthat's good when you can make your homework
(03:39):
work for you. So that wasI was joking the first time. The
second time, I may not bejoking. This interview may be over,
but it's but it's fun, youknow, it's but it's different because when
you are writing a book, youcontrol that whole world. And really screenwriting
(03:59):
is allaborative process. You have tobe just very open to the fact that
you were telling a story and you'relike, in some ways you're like the
first draft of that story, butthen everybody else is going to bring other
things to it. And I meanthere was one movie, a Midnight Hustle,
that I was watching, and therewere a couple of scenes in there
where I was like picture that.Ever, I did not think that they
(04:23):
were going to do that, butbut it was cool, and they bring
different things to it, you know, and so you just have to kind
of step back and go, thisisn't my story. It's a collaboration,
which is also what I do withyoung rich widows, right, because there's
four of us writers, so weall have to kind of find a voice
that's in between all of our voicesand then make our individual characters unique and
(04:46):
a bit more expressive of ourselves.So that's some a narcissis I'm going to
talk about myself now. I baoughlyunderstand what I don't thoroughly understand what you're
saying about, like screenwriting, becauseI've never sold one. Well that's not
I sold a movie, but thatwasn't a scripted thing. But I've never
sold a script. So yeah,like sending it to your friend who's a
(05:09):
producer and the other friend who's aline producer, and then your friend who's
a director, and they're like,I see it this way, and you're
like you're just shaking your head likeno, you know, but then it's
not it's not for you to do. It's not for you to see,
and then oh, let's let's notlet's not forget the executives right that the
final said, Yeah, you reallyhave to be open to letting go.
(05:31):
It is like you have an ideaof something, but you don't rule it
like you do with a book,so you have to just kind of sit
there and go okay, And alot of things are done for budget,
you know too, A lot ofthings are done because it's like, we
can't afford that fifth location, sofigure it out. Or you know,
you have this big, long conversationwith the character's parent and yeah, they
(05:56):
need to be a day player,so they have to have under five lines.
And that's These are the ugitary considerationsthat go into movie making, whereas
you know in a book, I'mlike, I can start it with a
plane crash and then there can belike you know, I mean, gosh,
Young Rich Widows. You know,we have all that stuff in there,
and it's expensive. Really, that'sit. It should totally be a
(06:17):
television series, but it's an expensiveI agree, you really should be at
least a limited series. Like listeningto Young Rich Widows. I was kind
of writing the script in my head. But you you're you have a graduates
degree, so I can't say anythingabout the script I was writing, and
you were writing a great ser I'msure. I don't know. The one
good thing for grad school is itmakes you humble real quick, because anytime
(06:39):
you think you've done something great,somebody else is like yeah, no,
and it's all just two years oftearing each other down. So where egos
are where they should be starting inthat industry, that's it. I think
if you start in an industry andyou think that you're great, then you've
you've given yourself a disservice. Yeah, yeah, because I think I feel
(07:00):
like great people end up in themail room. It's true. No,
you have to come there being likehow do you think I should do this?
But but that's okay. So that'swhere I'm at. I think,
you know, God, how wasit working with co authors? I love
it. I wish that everything Iwrote was co authored because one I think
(07:26):
it. You know, in someways, it's like doing nanomo, you
know, in that you guys allhave a schedule where it's like you have
to write your chapter that week,and everyone's writing their chapter that week,
and then you're going to read iton Fridays and you're going to fix any
continuity things, or if anything's notworking with the plot, you guys are
going to go back and you know, restructure whatever it is. But you
(07:47):
have to stay on. And sothere's a lovely thing about kind of keeping
you on and honest right whereas youknow how it is when you're writing your
own books, you have your ultimatedeadline, but sometimes you're like, it's
just not working for me this week. I'll do it, you know,
I'll work on Sunday, I'll fixit on some you know, and things
can kind of get away from you. So I love that, and it's
(08:11):
also great. It's almost like awriter's room where we all would sit there
and before we start writing the chapters, we have to plot out and plan
this book and plan the character arcsand everything. And so you're you're just
sitting there discussing with other with theseother great writers, Kimberly Bell, Vanessa
(08:31):
Lily and Lane Fargo, and youknow, they have their ideas and you
have yours, and you guys kindof kick them around and eventually it's the
best ones rise to the top,you know, And so I wish I
had that and staid. A lotof times when I'm writing my own books,
it's just me debating with myself what'sgood and what's an awful idea,
(08:52):
And a lot of times, youknow, I'll think I'm brilliant and then
the next week, future Catherine goesback to last weeks that was a dumb
idea. That's not working at all. I'm bored. I'm bored, and
then you have to go redo it, right, So I thoroughly understand,
although like I'm a bit lazy,so I apologize y'all, Like, but
(09:13):
I thoroughly understand, because you writesomething and then you're like, this is
amazing, and then I've always hadI've had an editor since I was ten
years old, and so like Ijust send it to her and then she
tells me what's not amazing. Sooftentimes it comes back as a complete different
book. And I'm like, ohyeah, yeah. She was like,
(09:33):
like, I'm still mad at herfor cutting a five page monologue, but
probably you know, Shakespeare gets awaywith it. But in a suspense thriller
novel. Yeah, Like the olderI get, the more I'm like,
that was a bad idea, butlike, you do it for yourself.
(09:54):
So that has to be amazing andhard, because who wants to wants to
anything out? I know. Well, the good thing is, I will
say screenwriting makes you ruthless with yourbooks because you're constantly there going if this
was dialogue and I was watching thisscene, would I turn off the television?
If the answer is yes, thenyou're like in it, not saying
(10:16):
I can do that on the firstrun through, Right, the first run
through it's like long and long winded, and I've gone on tangents and you
know, but you have so muchI feel like the first run through is
like the first drap is the mostfun. Yes, well sometimes, right,
sometimes it is that. Sometimes it'slike where you're feeling out your characters
(10:39):
and then they start being different peoplethan the ones that you needed to finish
the book that was first in yourhead, right, and then you try
to like, now I have towrite a different book because you guys are
different people, right, And sothat gets a little that gets a little
frustrating. Sometimes, you know,I have this idea of like these people
and then I get to point andI'm like, there's no way she'd do
(11:01):
that, Like you know, yeah, I thoroughly understand, like your characters
will go off on like I'm apanther? Are you a panther? No,
I'm a plotter. But what Iwhat I tend to do is I
plot the whole thing, and thenwhen you're in the writing, that's what
I mean. It's so frustrating isthe characters. You're trying to get to
this plot point and it's not working, and then you have to go back
(11:24):
and replot based on who the peopleare turning out to be. So that's
why I think for me, thefirst draft it's difficult because that's the one
where it's like I have to keepgoing back to the drawing board and replotting
and back to you know. Andit's not until the second draft where I'm
like, Okay, I know whothese people are. I love, I
loved. I'm gonna try that oneday. I'm gonna plot out an entire
(11:46):
I don't even know why I saidthat. It's never gonna work. So
what are the books that you havewritten? Okay, so which is I?
So? I guess I wrote ATurns was my first book, and
then I have The Widower's Wife,which I was a USA Today bestseller and
(12:07):
has been optioned for TV by bET Studios, so I'm really hopeful that
that will happen. Already, well, the options I needed to happen for
the real you know, there's optionsand then there's there's the actual good stuff.
Yeah, there's the other stuff.So then let's see the Widower's Wife.
(12:28):
Uh lie, she told one littlesecret, her three lives, uh,
the Darkness of Others, and thenthe Young Rich Widow series, which
we are on book three. Yeah, I need to ask my my question,
that my advice question, which wasgoing to be something completely different,
but then I was you're here andI was like, wait, but you
(12:52):
know, because you like, you'reUSA today bestseller and you've sold multiple things.
So I got to ask, whatdo you think authors should know when
they want to write their own scriptsfor their book? Like, what are
the top three things they have toknow? Well, I would say number
one, forget voiceover, because ifyou lean in with voiceover, you're basically
(13:15):
having your character narrate your book.And Hollywood's wise to that and they're just
going to be like, Nope,they don't know how to write for the
screen. So even if there willbe eventually be voiceover, force yourself not
to use any right in the beginning, because what you want is for everything
to be externalized and for the actorsto have fun things to play. Right.
(13:39):
Actors, when they're on screen,they don't want to just read like
an audiobook. They want to beinteracting. And I say all of that.
And then there was that movie TheKiller with whatever Fastbender, where the
whole thing was voiceover and people aregoing to go, but what about there's
always an exception? But I'm justsaying I think that. So when you're
writing screenplay, it's really all aboutwhat are people seeing? What's the action
(14:03):
that's being performed, And that's whatgets you into it, you know,
and which is a different way ofthinking because when you're writing a book,
so many times we're like in thecharacter's head and part of the fun is
the disconnect between what they're thinking andhow they're interpreting the situation and then what
they actually do right, and wejust can't we don't have that luxury.
(14:24):
Usually in screenwriting, it's you know, what did they do? Is all
that the audience is going to see? Exactly How many times do you ask
yourself that question, like, ooh, this is a great way, Wait,
how are they going to show way? How would I you know,
on second thought, let the sceneis now like three lines long, because
(14:46):
I think that says everything that theywould have done. Rights. Yeah,
So there's that, and then there'swhat's another one. I'd say that in
a screenplay, a scene is abouta change of a mo And so many
times when we write in books,you know will have it basically like the
character is doing something and gets upto another like plot point, and that's
(15:11):
when the chapter ends, right,But in screenwriting, it's when the emotion
of the character has changed that youkind of end your scene. So that's
like another thing, thank you forthat. I do not know that I'm
going to write that down because I'mnot going to go to grad school.
I already know that. And thelast thing I'd say, there's this great
(15:35):
thing. Oh it's so good.I wish it's like grad school. In
a twenty minute YouTube video, Ilove this thing. It's written by the
guy that it's not by the guythat did a Little Miss Sunshine. And
it's called endings the Good, theBad, and the Great, or like
the good, the Bad, andthe and the amazing or whatever. If
you just google little Miss Sunshine,and some form of those words. It'll
come up. And this guy basicallyin a twenty five minute YouTube video take
(16:00):
you through years of study. SoI recommend it like that might have been
the best reason of advice you can. Yeah, well there, come there,
you know. So he's like here, I'm going there. That's right.
Take some notes. That's a guyknows what he's doing. He's gosh,
(16:22):
what's the actual Now? I feellike I'm saying it and I'm gonna
have messed up. Okay, youknow the great thing about Google, it'll
figure it out eventually. Okay,good, Yeah, that's fine. Anyone
listening. Keep doing it until youfind the video. I mind it.
Yeah, but it's like endings,the good, the great, the bad.
I don't know something, but littlemiss Sunshine stuff guy the right?
Yeah, either that or you lookup the guy who did little Miss Sunshine,
(16:45):
find his name and then do that. That's right, put him on
YouTube and then eventually you'll find thatvideo. It's not a problem. But
the podcast chat GPT, it'll figureit out exadly. Oh my god,
you have got to love that You'reable to do that. But you hm,
I was about to go talk aboutreal politics of writers like AI and
(17:07):
politics of writers. No, thankyou, but you it looks so happy,
Go ahead, go ahead? Ohno, I yeah, no,
AI really bothers me. I makejokes, but yeah, I just think
it's interesting because I you know,I think that you have to look at
yourself as a writer and go,what is it that makes books and writing
(17:30):
interesting? And I think part ofit is you do feel like you're getting
something of the person of the writer, of what they of, what they've
learned, their life experience, whatthey're bringing to the characters. It's and
and that matters to me. Iwouldn't even if AI becomes as good,
you know, at kind of likeaping human experience and writing stories about it.
(17:52):
Uh, like the fact that it'snot coming from a person who's kind
of processed that and been put itthrough their own emotional filter, you know.
I feel like there's like a humanitylost in it. But I am
concerned because I think that people willalways do things cheaper and not that writers
are you know, buy and largebecoming Jeff Bezos other than Shonda Rhymes,
(18:15):
I bout down. But but youknow, if they can do it cheaper,
so so it does, Uh,it does worry me. But luckily
SAD got some protection, so that'sgreat, which means that eventually, well,
no, the writer's s guild hasprotection too, right, well,
the author's guilt. Sorry, I'mnot sad. I meant to the writer's
(18:38):
guilt. Yeah. Yeah, thewriter's guild got some protections, is what
I meant to say. The author'sguild is suing, so we shall see
what happens with that. I findthat. I find it interesting because I
mean, AI is patterns, andwe do all tend to have a pattern
(19:00):
are writing. So yeah, thatwould be rough because you do want it
cheaper. But on the other hand, people like to meet their authors,
Yeah, interact with their authors,and it's gonna be kind of hard to
do with a computer. And theylike to have input on the book and
you, I mean, you coulddo it, but like you want to
meet the person talk about it andthat sort of stuff. So I don't
(19:22):
know, I'm thinking, like,we have a few more years left.
Maybe that's true. I think wehave some years left. It's just kind
of like what does it look likein the future, you know. But
yeah, especially I think the indieauthor definitely has some useless because I feel
like, we're going to mundanely evenif it's mundane and ridiculous. At this
point, we're going to be thedonkey Hootes of the literary world. We're
(19:45):
gonna be like tailt That's good,we keep trying. I mean, yeah,
I'll be there with you because Ijust yeah, this time, I
know I'll be there, like smashingcomputers, becoming like gods again. Open
(20:10):
your print books. Oh my god. So the other thing that I wanted
to ask was about your writing journey. You are a best selling author,
you did the audio book as well. How did you start your writing journey?
So well, I always wanted tobe a writer, but I I
(20:33):
wanted to eat. So I becamea journalist because I knew that I would
get paid every two weeks. Andso I was a journalist for over a
decade, and I would write mystuff on the side, my fiction on
the side, and then I wouldI was a business journalist for the longest
time. I worked for Business Weekmagazine. And yeah, and so it
(20:55):
was you know, I love Imean, I loved interview and learning people's
stories and asking them. I thinkthat there's some there's a lot of overlap
between journalism and writing. It's thegreat thing about writing your own stories is
that they end the way you know, you feel some closure with and that
doesn't happen in journalism. But yeah, so that's that's basically my writing journey.
(21:19):
And then when I got to havemy second kid, I couldn't handle
the breaking news schedule anymore. Myfirst kid, I always joke, but
it's a true joke that her firstword was in Spanish, which is great,
except I'm Jamaican and Irish and Idon't speak Spanish. So that's that's
the amount of time I was spendingwith my firstborn job. But her first
(21:44):
word was like it was like,she say podcast for suppatos for shoes,
and I was like, that's whatdoes that mean? So so I quit
and at the time, I wasworking for CNBC writing for TV, and
I quit. And then I waslike, I'm going to give myself a
year and write my first book.And I did, and I got an
(22:07):
agent, and then you know,I started doing it. How do you
meet your agent? A conference,which I really recommend. I think that
so many writers, you know,send out they get that big book of
agents and they go down the listand they they you know, and they
send out, and I do knowsome people that have gotten an agent like
that, but it's really difficult becausebasically, you know, they hire interns
(22:29):
to go read those submissions, andthen it's like you have to get the
intern to like you, and thenthen maybe she gives it to the agent,
maybe the agent reads it, maybethey don't. Whereas if you go
to a conference that FaceTime like anythingelse, you know, somebody knows you,
and then when they get that submission, it's like, oh, yeah,
she didn't seem crazy, let meread, let me read what she
has. And so I really recommendto anybody who can, if you don't
(22:52):
have any contacts already in the industryor anybody to say to you, you
know, hey, meet my agent, then go do that and try to
you know, get some FaceTime,because even if that agent doesn't represent you,
sometimes they can recommend another agent andthen you're vetted. Right then you
come in a different thing. You'renot coming in off the slash pile.
And that's just so important. Thatis so true, like so so very
(23:18):
important. So I have a question, but it's completely and totally for me
because again I am a narcissist.Before I need to know things for just
me, but if you're interested,please listen. Audience. So, how
did you pitch your script to thedevelopment executive? I'm assuming, yeah,
(23:38):
well my first so the first time, Like so, my first thing that
I ever had made was Deadly aState and I did it with Fox mar
Vista and Toob and so I wasfortunate and that one of my professors in
grad school knew that they were lookingfor thrillers and basically said, hey,
(23:59):
you should pitch them, and soI sent I think seven pitches and it
was the seventh. So that meansa pitch is like a one page for
this purpose, is was a onepage document that kind of had a summary
of the story all the way upuntil the ending, right maybe, so
like each one, let's say,is like four hundred words. And I
pitched seven of them and it wasthe seventh one that they were like,
(24:22):
yeah, that one could work.Go go write that script. And then
I wrote that script and they werelike, yeah, we like parts of
this, Now go write a completelyscript. Okay, it was like writing
a book but shorter, Yes,exactly, that was exactly it. And
so then I did that and thenthat worked. And then the second time
(24:45):
I was very lucky in that theyjust reached out to me. They liked
the first one and they were like, we want you to write about this
and I was like, thank you, you mean I john to come up
with it. Fantastic, you wantwhat? And so that was that was
the SECON and then everything else.You know, you just write pitches and
you uh, well, in mycase, I have a manager and he
(25:06):
has contacts with production companies and yeah, and sometimes they like it and sometimes
they don't. And sometimes you spendweeks on different proposals and you know,
and it looks like it's going togo and then it doesn't. This business
has a lot of rejection. Sothat's the other thing I'd say anyone who
is like not okay with rejection,find, you know, find something else,
(25:27):
because it like you do have tobe like a little bit of a
narcissist. I know you're joking,but you have to you have to be
the person. It's like, youknow what, you're wrong. This is
great, This's shiny and new andinnovative, and you just don't see it.
And I'm one day going to beaccepting my Oscar for screenwriting or I'm
going to be in the New YorkTimes with my bestsel and I'm going to
(25:49):
be doing that. And when you'rein a vindictive move, you're like,
and I'm going to call you out. If you're not in a vindictive mood,
your life and it's okay, AndI'm going to just be there and
thank everybody. And it won't haveyour name on it because you didn't realize,
right, But you have to bea little bit of that person while
at the same time being humble enoughthat if somebody gives you direction, being
(26:11):
like, yes, I'll take it. That's it. I love them.
I love how you said that.But like I'm gonna say, like,
for me, I was published whenI was ten years old, so yeah,
and then after that there were somany notes all the time. Yeah,
I've learned that, like, ifyou don't believe you're the best writer,
(26:32):
well it's not likely that you're goingto stay here long. And I've
been well over a little over tenyears, like amazing, So yeah,
you just have to do that.At ten years old, yes, I
was good. Yeah, no,I am. I had started I had
started submitting at seven, so Ihave been doing it for three years constantly,
(26:57):
every day, thirty day out ofa momth like, I'd write a
quary letter every day. I'd writea new poem every day. I send
it in every day. So atthe end of the week there was seven.
I put them all in their littleenvelope sometimes and send them all.
Sometimes I email them over. Butyeah, that's amazing. I had tried
(27:18):
that at seven. My mom saidit to Scholastic. I wrote like a
short story, and I got myfirst rejection letter. And then because I
was not ready, I think Igot that rejection letter. It was like,
I'm gonna go give it a decadeand then start to get So I
came home five and told my parentsI was going to be a doctor,
(27:40):
and so like, you come backhome two years from now. I'm like,
I'm going to be a writer.They're like, you're gonna work at
it like you were working it forthose two years to be like I'm gonna
learn everything I can about anatomy.You're gonna do the exact same thing.
So that was at the end ofmy homework. It was my job either
create a new poem or write anew quory letter. These were my jobs.
That's amazing. And where were yourparents? Huh, your parents are
(28:04):
were they what were they Caribbean?No, sounds like really right. I
was like, oh, Jamaicans,Like what they made you? My mom
believed in making you, Like ifyou say you were going to do it,
then you must work at it everyday like it's your job because this
(28:27):
is what you want. And she'slike, there are many hungry writers in
the world and you will not bethem. And at twelve, she made
me learn how to set up myown writing business. Wow, I've been
making a living at writing since Iwas twelve. Steady, that's amazing.
That's amazing. I need to gokick my kids. But oh whatever,
(28:49):
It's like, it was my parents. That's what they made me do.
So like when you so when she'sout here and she's telling you that there's
a lot of rejection there. There'sa lot of rejection. I mean they
rejecting a seven year old for threeyears and they knew I was seven,
you know, they knew I wasseven, eight and nine, They knew
how old I was, and theywere like, no, yeah. I
(29:10):
remember when I got my first rejection, which was also seven. I had
illustrated my story and they didn't giveme and I said, the original with
the original illustrations, and I nevergot it back. No, learn the
hard way. But you know,you think that there'd be a little grace
for seven, that they would belike, oh so cute, she said
to her original all right, likethey treat you like a full grown adult
(29:32):
like they do. And then Istarted trying to corry the full the Big
five when I was like ten,wow, all right it big five time.
What Yeah, yeah, they treatyou you as like a plain old
adult. Okay, you can getback a better with two letters with two
letters on there N and O periodsign of name. Yeah, no,
(29:53):
it's a there's just so much.Well. I think that's why I hit
out in journalism for a while,because you know, in journalism like so,
I started writing for newspapers when Iwas thirteen, and after I had
gotten rejected from that, I waslike, maybe maybe I need to go
someplace else to make some money becauseit doesn't seem like anyone likes me.
(30:15):
And but that was, you know, that was how my parents did.
It was like same kind of deal, like Okay, you have to work
at it, and I was like, I'm going to go work at it
over here where it's like it's notquite as binary a decision process, right,
they can if they can put youon like the fluff pieces, and
then you can work your way upto doing the you know, the better
(30:36):
stuff. I have been in journalismso hard. But anyway, we're having
a discussion now that I could definitelyhave off camera. But so I'm gonna
go, where can people find lotmore information about you? Listen to the
audiobooks, see the movie? Ohgreat, well, so I have.
The movies are free. You cango to to b It's Midnight, Pustle
(30:56):
and Deadly Estate are mine. Butand the books if you go to katehollahand
dot com. I have links there, but they're still wherever books are sold.
You know, my older back catalogsalways like you know, available on
Amazon. And then the new stuffis you know, still floating around in
(31:17):
print. So that's okay. Oh, thank you so much for being here
with us today. Y'all. Pleasego check out those books, look those
movies. You know. I'm lookingat the movie because I need to do
a study. I didn't go tograduate school. I'm just gonna be trying
to write down all the all thelines. I mean, like, wait,
what did you do? You canfind one you can find your ladies
(31:37):
where you can always find your ladiesat www dot and I thought ladies dot
com, which I did not putat the beginning. By the way,
that feels really weird. I didnot put the website at the beginning,
so I'm gonna say it twice.Www dot and I thought ladies dot com.
When you go there, I godown to the middle of the page
and you can see the three charitiesthat we probably support. We asked that
you take a moment out and givethem your help. That does not mean
(32:00):
they need money all the time,although I'm sure they would not reject money,
like like they're like anyone else onthe other of the other, any
other of us. They would notreject money. Wow, I got really
tripped up on those words. AndI'm a writer. That is sad.
We thank you in advance for helpingthem out. Remember that wisdom is all
around you if you're open to findingit and accepting It's a piece of love.
(32:20):
You guys from well, no,not in the Missing Jane. Oh
yeah, thanks for listen.
Hello everyone, and welcome to theWriter's Class. Yes, y'all, it's
been a long time since I've doneone for the Writer's Class. I mean,
you know, for a podcasts,you got to pick one every once
in a while. You're like,well, no, this week doesn't feel
like you know, the Ladies.Well, it could be the Ladies stole
podcast because like my guess is alsoa screenwriter, so that kind of works
right now, it's just the tossup. But I don't want to use
(00:23):
the time. Hmm. Okay,anyway, you guys do not care about
the little problems of administrative stuff forpodcasts. That is not what you're here
for. Because if you were,I would hate my podcasts. It would
be technical. And I can't standthose. Yeah, no, I'm sticking
to that. I had to thinkabout that. No, I can't stand
those anyway. I won't own themsemi professionalism. I would do a better
(00:47):
dance with my shoulder hurts. Andyou know, I'm getting a little old
now, so gotta keep it small. And I wrote books. Imagine that,
you know how Like when I saidthat, I said that, like
I surprised myself. Boom. Yeah, So there are eighteen of eighteen of
them now yep, because there usedto be seventeen. We wrote one more.
(01:08):
That's eighteen, and we finished upone more before the end of the
year. December the twenty third,we finished up one more, so that
makes nineteen. And if I'm fortunate, I'll do another one by the end
of January and I'll be twenty.Anyway, the books are and I thought
Divorces bad, and I thought beinggrand up was easy if only I were
mem Memoir and burse Wittles, webWittles, Debt and Foreign Coffee. If
(01:32):
you're keeping track, those are sixjust six. Yeah, you're like,
where are the rest? Because that'sa long list and no one wants to
hear the rest, right exactly,But those six books are where audiobooks can
be found, yay, because youdon't want to read the book. You
want to listen to the book,and I need to get paid to do
that. With the serious face righthere. But you're here to hear about
me, although I really wish youwere. I could tell you all about
(01:53):
my ankle, my poofy, messyhair, and this wonderful necklace that Jade
got me and I threw on althoughit was supposed to with a formal dress.
Looks good though, it looks likea whole caller Like I'm like,
I'm trying to be a Supreme Courtjudge. Yeah no, not too many
years in law school. You can'thear about my wonderful guests. Wonderful guests.
Would you like to introduce yourself?Yeah, well, thank you so
(02:15):
much for having me. I'm KateHollahan. And I now feel like a
schlub because I do not have twentybooks I have. I have six books
out there, plus I write theYoung Rituitable, Young Rich Widow's audio series.
I co author that with three othergreat female authors. And in addition
(02:35):
to that, I'm a screenwriter.I've had a couple TV movies made and
yeah, still still plug it awayat it. So that's me. I
was about to end this interview becauseI'm jealous more successful court. So I've
always wanted to be a screenwriter andhave something made. I think all of
(02:57):
the authors do. How does thatfeels? It's been good, you know.
So I actually did a crazy thingduring COVID. All the bookstores were
closed and I had a book comeout, and I did not know how
I was going to market it atall because all the bookstores were closed,
and so I freaked out and said, I'm going to get a screenwriting degree
at grad school. And so Iapplied to grad school and was one of
(03:17):
the oldest people in the program aroundall these twenty year olds, God bless
them and their youth, and thenthere was me. But I got a
screenwriting degree from NYU Tish and thenwhile I was in school, I sold
two movies of the Week to marVista tub and that's how I paid for
grad school. So that was alwaysthat's good when you can make your homework
(03:39):
work for you. So that wasI was joking the first time. The
second time, I may not bejoking. This interview may be over,
but it's but it's fun, youknow, it's but it's different because when
you are writing a book, youcontrol that whole world. And really screenwriting
(03:59):
is allaborative process. You have tobe just very open to the fact that
you were telling a story and you'relike, in some ways you're like the
first draft of that story, butthen everybody else is going to bring other
things to it. And I meanthere was one movie, a Midnight Hustle,
that I was watching, and therewere a couple of scenes in there
where I was like picture that.Ever, I did not think that they
(04:23):
were going to do that, butbut it was cool, and they bring
different things to it, you know, and so you just have to kind
of step back and go, thisisn't my story. It's a collaboration,
which is also what I do withyoung rich widows, right, because there's
four of us writers, so weall have to kind of find a voice
that's in between all of our voicesand then make our individual characters unique and
(04:46):
a bit more expressive of ourselves.So that's some a narcissis I'm going to
talk about myself now. I baoughlyunderstand what I don't thoroughly understand what you're
saying about, like screenwriting, becauseI've never sold one. Well that's not
I sold a movie, but thatwasn't a scripted thing. But I've never
sold a script. So yeah,like sending it to your friend who's a
(05:09):
producer and the other friend who's aline producer, and then your friend who's
a director, and they're like,I see it this way, and you're
like you're just shaking your head likeno, you know, but then it's
not it's not for you to do. It's not for you to see,
and then oh, let's let's notlet's not forget the executives right that the
final said, Yeah, you reallyhave to be open to letting go.
(05:31):
It is like you have an ideaof something, but you don't rule it
like you do with a book,so you have to just kind of sit
there and go okay, And alot of things are done for budget,
you know too, A lot ofthings are done because it's like, we
can't afford that fifth location, sofigure it out. Or you know,
you have this big, long conversationwith the character's parent and yeah, they
(05:56):
need to be a day player,so they have to have under five lines.
And that's These are the ugitary considerationsthat go into movie making, whereas
you know in a book, I'mlike, I can start it with a
plane crash and then there can belike you know, I mean, gosh,
Young Rich Widows. You know,we have all that stuff in there,
and it's expensive. Really, that'sit. It should totally be a
(06:17):
television series, but it's an expensiveI agree, you really should be at
least a limited series. Like listeningto Young Rich Widows. I was kind
of writing the script in my head. But you you're you have a graduates
degree, so I can't say anythingabout the script I was writing, and
you were writing a great ser I'msure. I don't know. The one
good thing for grad school is itmakes you humble real quick, because anytime
(06:39):
you think you've done something great,somebody else is like yeah, no,
and it's all just two years oftearing each other down. So where egos
are where they should be starting inthat industry, that's it. I think
if you start in an industry andyou think that you're great, then you've
you've given yourself a disservice. Yeah, yeah, because I think I feel
(07:00):
like great people end up in themail room. It's true. No,
you have to come there being likehow do you think I should do this?
But but that's okay. So that'swhere I'm at. I think,
you know, God, how wasit working with co authors? I love
it. I wish that everything Iwrote was co authored because one I think
(07:26):
it. You know, in someways, it's like doing nanomo, you
know, in that you guys allhave a schedule where it's like you have
to write your chapter that week,and everyone's writing their chapter that week,
and then you're going to read iton Fridays and you're going to fix any
continuity things, or if anything's notworking with the plot, you guys are
going to go back and you know, restructure whatever it is. But you
(07:47):
have to stay on. And sothere's a lovely thing about kind of keeping
you on and honest right whereas youknow how it is when you're writing your
own books, you have your ultimatedeadline, but sometimes you're like, it's
just not working for me this week. I'll do it, you know,
I'll work on Sunday, I'll fixit on some you know, and things
can kind of get away from you. So I love that, and it's
(08:11):
also great. It's almost like awriter's room where we all would sit there
and before we start writing the chapters, we have to plot out and plan
this book and plan the character arcsand everything. And so you're you're just
sitting there discussing with other with theseother great writers, Kimberly Bell, Vanessa
(08:31):
Lily and Lane Fargo, and youknow, they have their ideas and you
have yours, and you guys kindof kick them around and eventually it's the
best ones rise to the top,you know, And so I wish I
had that and staid. A lotof times when I'm writing my own books,
it's just me debating with myself what'sgood and what's an awful idea,
(08:52):
And a lot of times, youknow, I'll think I'm brilliant and then
the next week, future Catherine goesback to last weeks that was a dumb
idea. That's not working at all. I'm bored. I'm bored, and
then you have to go redo it, right, So I thoroughly understand,
although like I'm a bit lazy,so I apologize y'all, Like, but
(09:13):
I thoroughly understand, because you writesomething and then you're like, this is
amazing, and then I've always hadI've had an editor since I was ten
years old, and so like Ijust send it to her and then she
tells me what's not amazing. Sooftentimes it comes back as a complete different
book. And I'm like, ohyeah, yeah. She was like,
(09:33):
like, I'm still mad at herfor cutting a five page monologue, but
probably you know, Shakespeare gets awaywith it. But in a suspense thriller
novel. Yeah, Like the olderI get, the more I'm like,
that was a bad idea, butlike, you do it for yourself.
(09:54):
So that has to be amazing andhard, because who wants to wants to
anything out? I know. Well, the good thing is, I will
say screenwriting makes you ruthless with yourbooks because you're constantly there going if this
was dialogue and I was watching thisscene, would I turn off the television?
If the answer is yes, thenyou're like in it, not saying
(10:16):
I can do that on the firstrun through, Right, the first run
through it's like long and long winded, and I've gone on tangents and you
know, but you have so muchI feel like the first run through is
like the first drap is the mostfun. Yes, well sometimes, right,
sometimes it is that. Sometimes it'slike where you're feeling out your characters
(10:39):
and then they start being different peoplethan the ones that you needed to finish
the book that was first in yourhead, right, and then you try
to like, now I have towrite a different book because you guys are
different people, right, And sothat gets a little that gets a little
frustrating. Sometimes, you know,I have this idea of like these people
and then I get to point andI'm like, there's no way she'd do
(11:01):
that, Like you know, yeah, I thoroughly understand, like your characters
will go off on like I'm apanther? Are you a panther? No,
I'm a plotter. But what Iwhat I tend to do is I
plot the whole thing, and thenwhen you're in the writing, that's what
I mean. It's so frustrating isthe characters. You're trying to get to
this plot point and it's not working, and then you have to go back
(11:24):
and replot based on who the peopleare turning out to be. So that's
why I think for me, thefirst draft it's difficult because that's the one
where it's like I have to keepgoing back to the drawing board and replotting
and back to you know. Andit's not until the second draft where I'm
like, Okay, I know whothese people are. I love, I
loved. I'm gonna try that oneday. I'm gonna plot out an entire
(11:46):
I don't even know why I saidthat. It's never gonna work. So
what are the books that you havewritten? Okay, so which is I?
So? I guess I wrote ATurns was my first book, and
then I have The Widower's Wife,which I was a USA Today bestseller and
(12:07):
has been optioned for TV by bET Studios, so I'm really hopeful that
that will happen. Already, well, the options I needed to happen for
the real you know, there's optionsand then there's there's the actual good stuff.
Yeah, there's the other stuff.So then let's see the Widower's Wife.
(12:28):
Uh lie, she told one littlesecret, her three lives, uh,
the Darkness of Others, and thenthe Young Rich Widow series, which
we are on book three. Yeah, I need to ask my my question,
that my advice question, which wasgoing to be something completely different,
but then I was you're here andI was like, wait, but you
(12:52):
know, because you like, you'reUSA today bestseller and you've sold multiple things.
So I got to ask, whatdo you think authors should know when
they want to write their own scriptsfor their book? Like, what are
the top three things they have toknow? Well, I would say number
one, forget voiceover, because ifyou lean in with voiceover, you're basically
(13:15):
having your character narrate your book.And Hollywood's wise to that and they're just
going to be like, Nope,they don't know how to write for the
screen. So even if there willbe eventually be voiceover, force yourself not
to use any right in the beginning, because what you want is for everything
to be externalized and for the actorsto have fun things to play. Right.
(13:39):
Actors, when they're on screen,they don't want to just read like
an audiobook. They want to beinteracting. And I say all of that.
And then there was that movie TheKiller with whatever Fastbender, where the
whole thing was voiceover and people aregoing to go, but what about there's
always an exception? But I'm justsaying I think that. So when you're
writing screenplay, it's really all aboutwhat are people seeing? What's the action
(14:03):
that's being performed, And that's whatgets you into it, you know,
and which is a different way ofthinking because when you're writing a book,
so many times we're like in thecharacter's head and part of the fun is
the disconnect between what they're thinking andhow they're interpreting the situation and then what
they actually do right, and wejust can't we don't have that luxury.
(14:24):
Usually in screenwriting, it's you know, what did they do? Is all
that the audience is going to see? Exactly How many times do you ask
yourself that question, like, ooh, this is a great way, Wait,
how are they going to show way? How would I you know,
on second thought, let the sceneis now like three lines long, because
(14:46):
I think that says everything that theywould have done. Rights. Yeah,
So there's that, and then there'swhat's another one. I'd say that in
a screenplay, a scene is abouta change of a mo And so many
times when we write in books,you know will have it basically like the
character is doing something and gets upto another like plot point, and that's
(15:11):
when the chapter ends, right,But in screenwriting, it's when the emotion
of the character has changed that youkind of end your scene. So that's
like another thing, thank you forthat. I do not know that I'm
going to write that down because I'mnot going to go to grad school.
I already know that. And thelast thing I'd say, there's this great
(15:35):
thing. Oh it's so good.I wish it's like grad school. In
a twenty minute YouTube video, Ilove this thing. It's written by the
guy that it's not by the guythat did a Little Miss Sunshine. And
it's called endings the Good, theBad, and the Great, or like
the good, the Bad, andthe and the amazing or whatever. If
you just google little Miss Sunshine,and some form of those words. It'll
come up. And this guy basicallyin a twenty five minute YouTube video take
(16:00):
you through years of study. SoI recommend it like that might have been
the best reason of advice you can. Yeah, well there, come there,
you know. So he's like here, I'm going there. That's right.
Take some notes. That's a guyknows what he's doing. He's gosh,
(16:22):
what's the actual Now? I feellike I'm saying it and I'm gonna
have messed up. Okay, youknow the great thing about Google, it'll
figure it out eventually. Okay,good, Yeah, that's fine. Anyone
listening. Keep doing it until youfind the video. I mind it.
Yeah, but it's like endings,the good, the great, the bad.
I don't know something, but littlemiss Sunshine stuff guy the right?
Yeah, either that or you lookup the guy who did little Miss Sunshine,
(16:45):
find his name and then do that. That's right, put him on
YouTube and then eventually you'll find thatvideo. It's not a problem. But
the podcast chat GPT, it'll figureit out exadly. Oh my god,
you have got to love that You'reable to do that. But you hm,
I was about to go talk aboutreal politics of writers like AI and
(17:07):
politics of writers. No, thankyou, but you it looks so happy,
Go ahead, go ahead? Ohno, I yeah, no,
AI really bothers me. I makejokes, but yeah, I just think
it's interesting because I you know,I think that you have to look at
yourself as a writer and go,what is it that makes books and writing
(17:30):
interesting? And I think part ofit is you do feel like you're getting
something of the person of the writer, of what they of, what they've
learned, their life experience, whatthey're bringing to the characters. It's and
and that matters to me. Iwouldn't even if AI becomes as good,
you know, at kind of likeaping human experience and writing stories about it.
(17:52):
Uh, like the fact that it'snot coming from a person who's kind
of processed that and been put itthrough their own emotional filter, you know.
I feel like there's like a humanitylost in it. But I am
concerned because I think that people willalways do things cheaper and not that writers
are you know, buy and largebecoming Jeff Bezos other than Shonda Rhymes,
(18:15):
I bout down. But but youknow, if they can do it cheaper,
so so it does, Uh,it does worry me. But luckily
SAD got some protection, so that'sgreat, which means that eventually, well,
no, the writer's s guild hasprotection too, right, well,
the author's guilt. Sorry, I'mnot sad. I meant to the writer's
(18:38):
guilt. Yeah. Yeah, thewriter's guild got some protections, is what
I meant to say. The author'sguild is suing, so we shall see
what happens with that. I findthat. I find it interesting because I
mean, AI is patterns, andwe do all tend to have a pattern
(19:00):
are writing. So yeah, thatwould be rough because you do want it
cheaper. But on the other hand, people like to meet their authors,
Yeah, interact with their authors,and it's gonna be kind of hard to
do with a computer. And theylike to have input on the book and
you, I mean, you coulddo it, but like you want to
meet the person talk about it andthat sort of stuff. So I don't
(19:22):
know, I'm thinking, like,we have a few more years left.
Maybe that's true. I think wehave some years left. It's just kind
of like what does it look likein the future, you know. But
yeah, especially I think the indieauthor definitely has some useless because I feel
like, we're going to mundanely evenif it's mundane and ridiculous. At this
point, we're going to be thedonkey Hootes of the literary world. We're
(19:45):
gonna be like tailt That's good,we keep trying. I mean, yeah,
I'll be there with you because Ijust yeah, this time, I
know I'll be there, like smashingcomputers, becoming like gods again. Open
(20:10):
your print books. Oh my god. So the other thing that I wanted
to ask was about your writing journey. You are a best selling author,
you did the audio book as well. How did you start your writing journey?
So well, I always wanted tobe a writer, but I I
(20:33):
wanted to eat. So I becamea journalist because I knew that I would
get paid every two weeks. Andso I was a journalist for over a
decade, and I would write mystuff on the side, my fiction on
the side, and then I wouldI was a business journalist for the longest
time. I worked for Business Weekmagazine. And yeah, and so it
(20:55):
was you know, I love Imean, I loved interview and learning people's
stories and asking them. I thinkthat there's some there's a lot of overlap
between journalism and writing. It's thegreat thing about writing your own stories is
that they end the way you know, you feel some closure with and that
doesn't happen in journalism. But yeah, so that's that's basically my writing journey.
(21:19):
And then when I got to havemy second kid, I couldn't handle
the breaking news schedule anymore. Myfirst kid, I always joke, but
it's a true joke that her firstword was in Spanish, which is great,
except I'm Jamaican and Irish and Idon't speak Spanish. So that's that's
the amount of time I was spendingwith my firstborn job. But her first
(21:44):
word was like it was like,she say podcast for suppatos for shoes,
and I was like, that's whatdoes that mean? So so I quit
and at the time, I wasworking for CNBC writing for TV, and
I quit. And then I waslike, I'm going to give myself a
year and write my first book.And I did, and I got an
(22:07):
agent, and then you know,I started doing it. How do you
meet your agent? A conference,which I really recommend. I think that
so many writers, you know,send out they get that big book of
agents and they go down the listand they they you know, and they
send out, and I do knowsome people that have gotten an agent like
that, but it's really difficult becausebasically, you know, they hire interns
(22:29):
to go read those submissions, andthen it's like you have to get the
intern to like you, and thenthen maybe she gives it to the agent,
maybe the agent reads it, maybethey don't. Whereas if you go
to a conference that FaceTime like anythingelse, you know, somebody knows you,
and then when they get that submission, it's like, oh, yeah,
she didn't seem crazy, let meread, let me read what she
has. And so I really recommendto anybody who can, if you don't
(22:52):
have any contacts already in the industryor anybody to say to you, you
know, hey, meet my agent, then go do that and try to
you know, get some FaceTime,because even if that agent doesn't represent you,
sometimes they can recommend another agent andthen you're vetted. Right then you
come in a different thing. You'renot coming in off the slash pile.
And that's just so important. Thatis so true, like so so very
(23:18):
important. So I have a question, but it's completely and totally for me
because again I am a narcissist.Before I need to know things for just
me, but if you're interested,please listen. Audience. So, how
did you pitch your script to thedevelopment executive? I'm assuming, yeah,
(23:38):
well my first so the first time, Like so, my first thing that
I ever had made was Deadly aState and I did it with Fox mar
Vista and Toob and so I wasfortunate and that one of my professors in
grad school knew that they were lookingfor thrillers and basically said, hey,
(23:59):
you should pitch them, and soI sent I think seven pitches and it
was the seventh. So that meansa pitch is like a one page for
this purpose, is was a onepage document that kind of had a summary
of the story all the way upuntil the ending, right maybe, so
like each one, let's say,is like four hundred words. And I
pitched seven of them and it wasthe seventh one that they were like,
(24:22):
yeah, that one could work.Go go write that script. And then
I wrote that script and they werelike, yeah, we like parts of
this, Now go write a completelyscript. Okay, it was like writing
a book but shorter, Yes,exactly, that was exactly it. And
so then I did that and thenthat worked. And then the second time
(24:45):
I was very lucky in that theyjust reached out to me. They liked
the first one and they were like, we want you to write about this
and I was like, thank you, you mean I john to come up
with it. Fantastic, you wantwhat? And so that was that was
the SECON and then everything else.You know, you just write pitches and
you uh, well, in mycase, I have a manager and he
(25:06):
has contacts with production companies and yeah, and sometimes they like it and sometimes
they don't. And sometimes you spendweeks on different proposals and you know,
and it looks like it's going togo and then it doesn't. This business
has a lot of rejection. Sothat's the other thing I'd say anyone who
is like not okay with rejection,find, you know, find something else,
(25:27):
because it like you do have tobe like a little bit of a
narcissist. I know you're joking,but you have to you have to be
the person. It's like, youknow what, you're wrong. This is
great, This's shiny and new andinnovative, and you just don't see it.
And I'm one day going to beaccepting my Oscar for screenwriting or I'm
going to be in the New YorkTimes with my bestsel and I'm going to
(25:49):
be doing that. And when you'rein a vindictive move, you're like,
and I'm going to call you out. If you're not in a vindictive mood,
your life and it's okay, AndI'm going to just be there and
thank everybody. And it won't haveyour name on it because you didn't realize,
right, But you have to bea little bit of that person while
at the same time being humble enoughthat if somebody gives you direction, being
(26:11):
like, yes, I'll take it. That's it. I love them.
I love how you said that.But like I'm gonna say, like,
for me, I was published whenI was ten years old, so yeah,
and then after that there were somany notes all the time. Yeah,
I've learned that, like, ifyou don't believe you're the best writer,
(26:32):
well it's not likely that you're goingto stay here long. And I've
been well over a little over tenyears, like amazing, So yeah,
you just have to do that.At ten years old, yes, I
was good. Yeah, no,I am. I had started I had
started submitting at seven, so Ihave been doing it for three years constantly,
(26:57):
every day, thirty day out ofa momth like, I'd write a
quary letter every day. I'd writea new poem every day. I send
it in every day. So atthe end of the week there was seven.
I put them all in their littleenvelope sometimes and send them all.
Sometimes I email them over. Butyeah, that's amazing. I had tried
(27:18):
that at seven. My mom saidit to Scholastic. I wrote like a
short story, and I got myfirst rejection letter. And then because I
was not ready, I think Igot that rejection letter. It was like,
I'm gonna go give it a decadeand then start to get So I
came home five and told my parentsI was going to be a doctor,
(27:40):
and so like, you come backhome two years from now. I'm like,
I'm going to be a writer.They're like, you're gonna work at
it like you were working it forthose two years to be like I'm gonna
learn everything I can about anatomy.You're gonna do the exact same thing.
So that was at the end ofmy homework. It was my job either
create a new poem or write anew quory letter. These were my jobs.
That's amazing. And where were yourparents? Huh, your parents are
(28:04):
were they what were they Caribbean?No, sounds like really right. I
was like, oh, Jamaicans,Like what they made you? My mom
believed in making you, Like ifyou say you were going to do it,
then you must work at it everyday like it's your job because this
(28:27):
is what you want. And she'slike, there are many hungry writers in
the world and you will not bethem. And at twelve, she made
me learn how to set up myown writing business. Wow, I've been
making a living at writing since Iwas twelve. Steady, that's amazing.
That's amazing. I need to gokick my kids. But oh whatever,
(28:49):
It's like, it was my parents. That's what they made me do.
So like when you so when she'sout here and she's telling you that there's
a lot of rejection there. There'sa lot of rejection. I mean they
rejecting a seven year old for threeyears and they knew I was seven,
you know, they knew I wasseven, eight and nine, They knew
how old I was, and theywere like, no, yeah. I
(29:10):
remember when I got my first rejection, which was also seven. I had
illustrated my story and they didn't giveme and I said, the original with
the original illustrations, and I nevergot it back. No, learn the
hard way. But you know,you think that there'd be a little grace
for seven, that they would belike, oh so cute, she said
to her original all right, likethey treat you like a full grown adult
(29:32):
like they do. And then Istarted trying to corry the full the Big
five when I was like ten,wow, all right it big five time.
What Yeah, yeah, they treatyou you as like a plain old
adult. Okay, you can getback a better with two letters with two
letters on there N and O periodsign of name. Yeah, no,
(29:53):
it's a there's just so much.Well. I think that's why I hit
out in journalism for a while,because you know, in journalism like so,
I started writing for newspapers when Iwas thirteen, and after I had
gotten rejected from that, I waslike, maybe maybe I need to go
someplace else to make some money becauseit doesn't seem like anyone likes me.
(30:15):
And but that was, you know, that was how my parents did.
It was like same kind of deal, like Okay, you have to work
at it, and I was like, I'm going to go work at it
over here where it's like it's notquite as binary a decision process, right,
they can if they can put youon like the fluff pieces, and
then you can work your way upto doing the you know, the better
(30:36):
stuff. I have been in journalismso hard. But anyway, we're having
a discussion now that I could definitelyhave off camera. But so I'm gonna
go, where can people find lotmore information about you? Listen to the
audiobooks, see the movie? Ohgreat, well, so I have.
The movies are free. You cango to to b It's Midnight, Pustle
(30:56):
and Deadly Estate are mine. Butand the books if you go to katehollahand
dot com. I have links there, but they're still wherever books are sold.
You know, my older back catalogsalways like you know, available on
Amazon. And then the new stuffis you know, still floating around in
(31:17):
print. So that's okay. Oh, thank you so much for being here
with us today. Y'all. Pleasego check out those books, look those
movies. You know. I'm lookingat the movie because I need to do
a study. I didn't go tograduate school. I'm just gonna be trying
to write down all the all thelines. I mean, like, wait,
what did you do? You canfind one you can find your ladies
(31:37):
where you can always find your ladiesat www dot and I thought ladies dot
com, which I did not putat the beginning. By the way,
that feels really weird. I didnot put the website at the beginning,
so I'm gonna say it twice.Www dot and I thought ladies dot com.
When you go there, I godown to the middle of the page
and you can see the three charitiesthat we probably support. We asked that
you take a moment out and givethem your help. That does not mean
(32:00):
they need money all the time,although I'm sure they would not reject money,
like like they're like anyone else onthe other of the other, any
other of us. They would notreject money. Wow, I got really
tripped up on those words. AndI'm a writer. That is sad.
We thank you in advance for helpingthem out. Remember that wisdom is all
around you if you're open to findingit and accepting It's a piece of love.
(32:20):
You guys from well, no,not in the Missing Jane. Oh
yeah, thanks for listen.
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