September 25, 2019 • 43 mins
One of our uncontrollable impulses is comparing National Parks to Disney movies. Hiking through the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park in western Colorado reminded us of Maleficent's castle in "Sleeping Beauty," with all the twisted, gnarly trees and the pitch-blackness of the canyon. In this episode, we'll recount our visit to this hauntingly beautiful place.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I often do this thing where I mentally compare
National parks to Disney movies in my head. It's just
this thing my brain kind of instinctively does. It's really
more like an uncontrollable impulse of mine. I guess. I
mean that makes sense considering National Parks in Disney World
are two of our favorite places. Yeah, definitely true or
top two. And when I was hiking through black Handing
(00:21):
of the Gunness in National Park in Western Colorado, I
kept thinking it kind of reminded me of Maleficen's Castle
and sleeping beauty with all these like twisted, gnarly trees especially,
and then of course the pitch blackness of the canyon,
so deep, so steep, it's constantly shrouded in its own shadows. Yeah,
it's a really hauntingly beautiful place. I mean it's intimidating
(00:42):
in all the right ways. Yes. And instead of fairies though,
it's adorable black bear cubs fortunately, no curses, no sleeping,
just pure beauty. Hi. I'm Matt and I'm brand This
is park Landia. We packed up our loft in Chicago,
moved into an RV, and now we're traveling in the
country full time visiting America's national parks. Today we're talking
(01:05):
about Black Canyon of the Gunniston National Park in Colorado.
Thanks for listening. The diversity of Colorado's national parks really
just astounds me. Right before this, we were in Ma
Severity National Park, as I'm sure you remember, because you're
(01:26):
obsessed with that place. Yes, and I think we talked
about that in episode three, Right we did. We did,
you were so excited to do so. But even though
that park is only a few hours from here, it
totally feels like another part of like the Galaxy, entirely
compared to Black Canyon. Yeah, we had a few weeks
in between my work events and our trip to the
Black Canyon came in between Albuquerque and Wyoming. Um, we
(01:48):
had about a month to kill in Colorado, And what
a better excuse to visit national parks. Yeah, seriously, and honestly,
if we're gonna like kill a month in any state,
it's good to do it in Colorado. There's really an
endless ory of things to do and places to go
and trails to hike. Such a beautiful, diverse state, it
really is. Yes, it is a Black cand of the
(02:09):
Gunnison actually gets its name from the Gunnison River that
carved it and the fact that the canyon walls are
so dark. It's just so beautiful because it's like located
near the small town of Montrose, where we stayed at
the k A campground for a few nights. Yeah, this
is honestly one of the most convenient towns I think
we've ever stayed in near National Park. It was literally
like fifteen minutes from our r V to the National
(02:31):
Park entrance, so easy. And also in the town there
was a good amount of places to eat and visit
as well to keep us busy and entertained in between
the National Park. So that was that was great and
kind of surprising because I wasn't expecting much. They also
had a rental car facility that made it especially easy
for us to get around while we kept the r
(02:52):
V parked at the campground, because some parks aren't like
as accessible for larger vehicles, and this is one of
them for sure. The roads are mostly like quite small,
and they're narrow, and you know, there's lots of winding
roots and steep grades, and the visitor center parking lot
is so tiny there was barely any room at all. Yeah,
it definitely filled up really quick. I remember the first
(03:13):
day I went to Black Canyon, I was in the
rental car. I went by myself while you were getting
some work done. And I guess it was this kind
of inadvertent reconnaissance trip as well, because I had no
idea through my research. I didn't know the roads are
so narrow, and I didn't know the parking lots were
so small. So thank goodness we had this car. So
I was like, oh, wow, good to know, because the
(03:34):
RV would like not work out very well here unless
we woke up the crack of dawn and took up
five parking spaces the bane of everybody's existence there. I'm sure, right,
I know, I'm usually one doing the driving and the
gas pumping and the hookups and uh even the maintenance.
Yeah well, I mean, even though I'm not much of
a help with r V, I think it's payback for
(03:54):
all those times they brought you coffee and donuts from
Dark Matter in Chicago, so we can just call it
even okay, or even yes, I mean over the years,
I probably it's been like I invested like a thousand
dollars in donuts at dark Matter. You know that's actually
very true. I mean wouldn't be surprised as embarrassing probably
like eight bucks a day. Yeah, that's the coffee there
(04:16):
is not chee if the donuts are not cheap um,
but they're sure, but they're good and I made a
habit of it, for better or worse. But anyway, Montrose
was surprisingly wonderful, like I said, and we'll talk more
about that later, so stay tuned for that. But first
I think we should dive in and start with some
of the geological background of Black Canyon first, and what
(04:37):
forces were involved in shaping this Kavernus behemoth geology. Yeah,
when most people think of the canyons and national parks,
they obviously think of the Grand Canyon, which looks nothing
like the Black Canyon. I mean, they're totally different environments, sizes, shapes,
and despite the fact that they were shaped the same way,
they are all very right right. You know what I'd
(04:59):
love to see. I'd love to see one of those
like US weekly style showoffs of like who Are at
Best Canyon Edition? A little like yeah between Canyon and
Black Canyon. No, I'm not there, but really they're really even.
They're just hard to compare. Between the two because they
look nothing alike. I mean, the only thing they really
have in common is these raging rivers, And I really
(05:21):
do mean they're raging like you can hear these suckers
from all the way at the top of the canyon
and they're almost ear piercing up there. Yeah, raging feels
almost like an understatement. It's like a furious river, like
so furious. Yeah, you can never under underestimate the power
of water. This stuff will mess you up. And just
seeing what us to like rock is really incredible. The
(05:43):
fact that a river can look so thin and tiny
from afar and still have the strength of chisel this
jagged canyon is unbelievable. Yeah, this didn't happen overnight though.
I mean, it took a cool two million years to
get the Gunnison River to carve this canyon into the
depths of these Colorado rocks. I think it goes at
(06:03):
a rate of one inch per one hundred years. It's
a little slow, but you know, it's faster than what
I would be able to accomplish for sure if I
was carving this myself. This is a canyon fast and
furious style. Yeah. Sure, um, but like understandably, it does
say time to whiddle through these Some of the rocky
(06:26):
are so hard, Like there's Percambrian nice and schist that's
billions of years old and you can't rush these things.
The carving of a canyon, in culinary terms, is more
like a slow stew than a microwave for meal, to
be honest, Or how about it's kind of like a
crazy horse versus mount rush. Oh yeah, that's actually great.
(06:46):
That's a much more beautiful metaphor really excited about that one. Yeah,
that was a good metaphor. Yeah, we recently went to
both of those, which is why it's freshing your memory. Probably, Yeah,
But the thing is, you know a lot about microwaving
those meals on their v don't you. Um, I don't, don't. Please,
don't help me like that. I just let me enjoy
my freezer ile package genders in peace and secrecy. Please.
(07:10):
It's funny because we didn't even own a microwave and
are loft in Chicago, and now we're making full use
of the fact that we have our RV game with
a microwave. Yes, I mean it's great for hot pockets popcorn,
which you pretend not to but you do secretly like, um,
I feel like our microwave is turning you against me.
It's interesting. I'm getting thrown under the bus a lot
(07:32):
here anyway. Anyway, so let's get back on track here
and get to the bottom of this canyon formation. But
not literally the bottom, because we were not brave enough
to hike down there. No, not this trip anyway, that
seems like um in undertaking to stay the least. Don't
get ideas. I know you love hiking and you'll do it. Yeah,
I really wanted to, like one of the days we're here.
I was seriously looking into it. But then different things
(07:53):
I read and her in the visitor center, I'm like,
maybe maybe another time, and we have more time here
and I'm not quite so scared. So getting back to
the river and the carveet of the canyon, this thing,
like we said, is a real beast. And the park
doesn't contain the entire canyon length of this river per se,
(08:14):
but it has the twelve miles of them, and these
twelve miles are the most impressive, so impressive. In fact,
the park features the deepest sections of the canyon, and
it's so steep that the canyon floor only gets thirty
three minutes of sunlight per day. That's crazy. It sounds
kind of depressing, Like can you imagine letting the bottom
of canyon only getting thirty three minutes of sunlight? Yeah,
(08:37):
it's like living things. I know, it's like living in
Alaska in winter, I guess, And I it's kind of appropriate.
My research, I found this like hauntingly perfect quote from
an author named Dwayne Van den Bouche, if I'm saying
that right. He wrote this book called Images of America
The Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and in it he
says this quote, sevolcanans of the American West are longer
(08:59):
and m are deeper, but none combines the depth, sheerness, narrowness, darkness,
and dread of the Black Canyon. Wow, that's a good quote. Jeez,
I know it sounds like a scary story. I love
it so as you can you can kind of understand
why I'm getting serious. Maleficent Castle vives from this. Oh yeah,
it really it really fits. And not only are the
rock walls of the canyon dark to begin with, but
(09:21):
the fact that this place is almost constantly immersed in
its own shadow is why the Black Canyon has such
a dark, ominous name befitting this Disney villain, So it
all makes sense. So this this river actually started raging
fifteen million years ago as a runoff from the LaSalle
Mountains in the West Elk Mountains. Um, this is when
(09:41):
it started carving its way into the ancient rocks as well.
There's a lot of volcanic ash in the region. Yeah, exactly.
And the fact that this river is so fast moving
and strong made it possible to cut through I rock
that's especially tough, even if the pace was kind of
slow and took millions of years to do so, And
coupled with the hardness of the rock, such a powerful,
(10:02):
roaring river is why this canyon got so steep over years.
That reminds me of that line from the Devilwars Bratto
and m Miranda says, by all means move at a
glacial pace. You know how that thrills me. Yeah, I'm
totally imagining Miranda Priestly talking to this river. I can
just like see her visiting Black Canyon and I'm sure
(10:24):
she would also love all the florals on the surface
to Oh yeah, absolutely, very in season, just beautiful, because
right around those you get these the river would drop
thirty four ft per mile through the canyon, and it
means it's pretty steep descent within just the first few miles.
But you see all those the florals with that, I mean,
it's just you can't beat it. It is. Yeah, it's
(10:45):
a nice j exposition because this canyon is so like
jet black and kind of scary. It looks like an
evil canyon. Not to like throw shade at it, because
it has plenty of its own shade. That was that
was a nice little um. I like, how you're giving
yourself could I'll give my right? But yeah, the this
natural juxtaposition of this canyon just surrounded with these like
(11:06):
bright vibrant flowers and then the greenery of the trees
too up along the canyon rim is really quite nice
and very unusual. I don't think I've ever been to
a canyon like this before or definitely not want this intimidating,
that's for sure. So in regards to the canyon, just
how steep and deep it is, it's actually the Black
(11:29):
Candy contains the fifth steepest drop for any mountain fed
river in all of North America. And to put that
in a little bit of perspective when you're comparing it
to Grand Canyon. Again, the Colorado River and the Grand
Canyon in contrast, drops seven and a half feet for
a mile, So yeah, compared to thirty four feet for
per the Black Candy. That's that's a big difference. And
(11:53):
I like, I don't mean to keep turning this into
an advertent competition between the two canyons. But that's why
I'm like, thank this who wore best? Thing? Is such
a good idea basically rights itself. Yeah, and considering how
the beautiful patterns in the rocks here, I think it
would be a really tough competition. Like the painted wall,
which is the tallest clift in Colorado. Oh my god. Yeah,
that painted wall is magnificent, so gorgeous, so unique. It's
(12:16):
this huge broad cliff face that's strided with these lighter
strips of rock which are called pegman tite dikes. So
the whole cliff almost looks like this gigantic zebra, except like,
instead of white, it's just like a lighter shade of black. Yeah,
And you can you give me even a more amazing
view from the painted wall overlook on the South room drive. Yes,
you have to do that it's so easy. I mean,
(12:37):
there are lots of overlooks just directly off South Room Drive,
and this is I think the best overlook that I saw.
I'm like, of all, they're all amazing, like I said,
but it's definitely worth grappling with traffic on that road
to pull off at the Painted Wall overlook for sure.
Speaking of traffic, I think we have a traffic jam
and we're going to come back. Do you have to
(12:58):
this commercial breaks? Hi? I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This
(13:24):
is park Landia, and today we're talking about Black Canyon
of the Gunnison National Park in Colorado history. Now that
you know how steep and dark and raging this canyon is,
you can understand why Native Americans and settlers were so
intimidated by it and why they avoided it like the plague. Yeah,
this is definitely a type of canyon that really brings
a screeching halt to any travel or expedition because it's
(13:48):
almost completely a vertical drop off the canyon walls, so
not great for horseback riders or like any living thing
that doesn't fly. Yeah. Yeah. The Ute Indians um called
the River Much Rocks Big Water, which is totally fits.
I mean the depth and the darkness of the canyon
made them superstitious of it. Yeah, they were right to
(14:10):
be superstitious of it. I think something this treacherous is
definitely worrisome. It looks like, like I said, it looks
like it could be an evil place. I totally understand. Yeah.
The first time anyone actually recorded any major exploration of
this place was in eighteen fifty three by Captain John Williams,
no other than Gunnison is his last name. Um so
(14:31):
now you know where the river gets it. Yeah, and
much like Lewis and Clark, similar kind of exploratory fashion.
He was leading an expedition from St. Louis to San Francisco,
and when his party hit the canyon, it was basically
this giant roadblock. So he wound up eventually just going
way out of his way to travel around the south
end of the canyon because it was just impassable. Yeah,
(14:54):
he wasn't the last person to meet up with the
canyon though. When we stopped at the visitor center in
the South Rim, we learned more about the can in
exploration at the movie screening they were having. Yeah, that
was a really good movie by the way like especially good.
I think it's one of the best National Park movies
we've seen, and we've seen a lot. We always make
that a priority. Yeah, I was filled with some fascinating
(15:14):
information and we had no idea about most of it.
Like how William Jackson Palmer spent a ton of time
and money to build a railroad from Denver Um through
the San Juan Mountain. Yeah, I mean quite an undertaking.
And it did take a ton of time and money,
of course, like more than a year to construct a
(15:35):
fifteen mile stretched through the canyon, which wound up costing
about hundred sixty thousand dollars per mile. And that's a
lot of money like nowadays, but considering this was in
the late eighteen hundreds, that's an overwhelming amount of money.
I can't even fathom what that must have been like
for them to even attempt. Yeah, that's just crazy. And
then in the two, an engineer named Brian Bryant surveyed
(15:59):
the higher canyon, though a lot of his crew gave
up because they were actually too frightened of it. Yeah,
I get it. I would definitely do the same thing.
They wind up building the rest of the railroad again
around the south end of the canyon, which seems to
be the go to kind of alternative route, and in
addition to miners riding it to Utah, it was also
used as a luxury amount of travel for vacationers, including
(16:23):
shockingly right your kipling. Oh a nice little Disney connection there, right, Yeah,
so perfect. So he wrote it in eight nine, and
he was totally smitten with it. He loved it. I
just wish he wrote a jungle Book sequel called the
Canyon Book or something. Eventually, that drain Aligne was taken
apart in the nineteen fifties though, um so there's no
(16:45):
more of that today. And in the early nineteen hundreds,
other surveyors began looking for ways to reroute some of
the new river into nearby valleys to help with the
irrigation and the farming. Right right, which is another fun
fact we have zero idea about until the movie we watched,
The Visitors Center. Someone really needs to do that movie,
like a belated Oscar or something. It's really very well
(17:08):
done and super informative. Yeah, And in that we learned
about Abraham Lincoln Fellows and William Torrence doing the exploring
and they actually floated the entire canyon length of the
river on a rubber mattress. I can't. I mean, wooden
boats would have been just shattered and by the rocks,
and so they had to come up with you know,
(17:29):
plan B. Yeah, and they did it. They went for it,
which sounds like the most terrifying thing, but miraculously the
duo made it out safely on their mattress boat and
they were able to find sits in the canyon along
the way to build this river diversion tunnel they were
looking for, which is just totally crazy to think about
how intense these explorations here have been over the years
(17:52):
and the different techniques and attempts that were made from
various groups like wow, yeah, Black Canyon is not easy
to navigate and it this just proves the incredible strength
of nature. It really does. Nowadays, no one's floating that
river in a mattress instead. Black Cannon with the Gunnison
was named a National Monument in ninety three and upgraded
(18:12):
to National park status, which I think is a very
fitting finale for this ferociously beautiful place. Trails, even though
we didn't track down into the canyon, we definitely did
explore plenty on foot here, yeah, and it is really
(18:33):
easy to do with a small rental car, and you
don't even need to hike down in order to get
to the canyon floor either. By the way, there's this long,
winding steep road that you can take down there as
soon as you enter the park. It's called the East
Portle Road, and you just take the immediate right pretty
much if you go through the canyon or the National
Park entrance. And since the grade is six and the
(18:55):
curves are so sharp, it's only recommended for small vehicles
that can handle it. Our view be impossible to impossible.
I didn't even know if they're like a lot. I
think they probably have length. If you want to die
descriptions right, that's crazy, that wouldn't work at all. But
it's definitely cool to get down there and gawk at
the sheer walls and roaring white water. This area the
(19:15):
cannon isn't as deep as kind of the heart of
the park. This is more towards the eastern end, but
the views are no less impressive, and you really are
quite a ways down for sure, so you're deep in
it and just surrounded by these soaring, jagged, dark walls. Yeah,
I mean you can even picnic down there or fish.
That's great as well. I mean it's just a great
(19:36):
setting for that, right, Yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I
would definitely picnic. I'm not much of a fisher. But
another cool thing about the walls are a little bit
more spread out down here, so you have more light.
So because I wouldn't really want to picnic in like darkness,
so I'd rather just like Hike and Marvelotte overlooks too. So,
and the best place to start for that is at
(19:59):
the South Rim, which is by far the most visited
section of the park and the one closest to where
we're staying. This is also the section of the park
where you take this east port of road, so we're
kind of in the thick of it. Yeah. I remember
like parking at one of the overlooks because there was
no parking spaces left at the visitor center, especially for
the RV, and then just walking along the Canyon Rim
to go see that movie but and buy some souvenirs. Yeah,
(20:22):
so we're able to find ways around this parking issue,
and at this visitor center where the movie theater or
movie movie theater, I wish at the visitor center. We
we're also able to find this larger National Parks passport
book for me because I'm kind of maxing out mine
and it's somewhat falling apart, Like it's definitely of overearse.
(20:46):
Why because you threw that sucker away? That was I
got excited and ambitious and I was like, yes, I
need to upgrade to something larger, but then regretted it
because I spent all this money on it and then
resented it because I'm still attached to my original passport book. Yeah,
there's just so much history there for you. Yeah, but
even though it mind up being a waste, I really
(21:07):
have no problem with giving more money to the National
Park Service. I'm always happy to do that. Yeah, absolutely,
I Mean the beautiful thing is right from the from
the visitor center there, we got to do a few
different trails, you know, because they're all like kind of
connected in this giant loop that brought us back to
the car where actually started. Um, but where we actually
(21:29):
started this trail was the rim Rock Nature Trail, which
was flat and easy and only about one mile round
trip by itself. Yeah, definitely easy, and it's connects right
with a visitor center. So that's just a no brainer.
And I think we actually before we got into the
midst of the hike and we went to this overlook
that's a little a few steps down for the visitor center,
(21:51):
and that was like our first, I think, inspiring view.
It was such a good view. It was kind of crowded.
There was a lot of people there because it was
right by the visitors center, but plenty of room for everybody,
and the railing takes you pretty close to the edge.
It's a little nerve wracking. Was afraid to hold my
phone up because I thought it would suddenly drop it.
And then at the end of that, but so after
(22:15):
we do this um little overlook here, we continue on
hiking and we get more and more of these show
stopping canyon views along the way. It's just kind of
NonStop into this jagged, dark canyon. It none of it
really looks like real life. It all just looks surreal.
Yeah it really doesn't. I mean, it's just stunning, Like
it's probably one of the most beautiful places I've been.
(22:39):
And I just love again how these trails connect. And
you know, the next trail that we started was that
Oak Flat Top Loop trail UM which was a tiny
bit tougher though, since it's longer and has more elevation. Game. Yeah,
so this one's about two miles total, and I think
that makes it a bit more challenging is that it
(22:59):
dips below the canyon room a little bit, which is awesome.
You get a different perspective here, and it has more
tree cover, which is a benefit, especially for hiking midday.
And it's sunny and summery like when we were there,
and there's lots of gorgeous aspen trees, oaks, giant boulders.
It's really more of like the foresty area of the
(23:20):
park that we experienced, with so many little nooks that
give you these perfect panoramas of the canyon too. Yeah.
I mean you actually saw a bear there, right? Yeah?
I really, yes. I the first day when I came
here and your back of the RV working, I did
this trail so I didn't wind up doing this trail twice.
And towards the end of the this like Oak Flat
(23:41):
Loop trail, I saw my most exciting beartt like signing
I've ever seen in any National park. I think, well,
it was pretty close to right, and it was really close. Yeah,
So I was on my way back up out of
the canyon and I saw this large animal kind of
shuffling around in the corner of my eye, and I
didn't think it was a barrett for so I probably
assumed it was I don't know, like a gopher or
(24:04):
something I don't know, like a big gopher. And so
I look, and sure enough it was this young black
bear like I probably a cob. It was still pretty
small and clearly clearly young. So then that's good too,
because I don't know if I would want to be
that close to an adult bear. But yeah, it was
close enough to be thrilling, but still adorable. Looks like
(24:26):
a large jetty bear. We made sustained eye contact, we
had a moment and you had a moment. Yeah, just
enough for me to take a few photos. And he
was just so chill and patient, like, looked at me, posed,
and then scampered off. That's that's truly amazing. I mean,
I am. I'm really jealous that I didn't go that
(24:47):
first day with you, um, because we didn't really get
see any animals when we hiked together. No, yeah, I
don't think we did, aside from probably swirls and chipmunks.
And whatnot. But we did see a warning sign on
the side of the trail about aggressive deer in the area,
which I think was just the adrenaline rush we needed.
The mere prospect of being I don't know, trampled by deer. Yes,
(25:10):
that's so exciting. And to just be trampled by deer
to death. Yep, yep, that's what I think of when
I think of fun exactly know, when we when we
get done with that oak flat loop trail, um. The
final portion of the trails that we did together was
the Cedar Point Nature Trail, which is another flat and
(25:31):
easy section that brought us back towards the parking lot. Right.
So this is like the last section of that loop,
and this is I think the easiest part. This takes
you out of the canyon, away from the canyon, so
you don't really have any canyon views here. You mostly
you like cross the section of the road actually at
one point, and then you grow through this open meadow
(25:51):
and some short, gnarly trees. And these are the trees
that I was describing earlier. They're kind of scary, sharp looking,
tangley and thick. These are the ones that felt like
the ones that surround the left in the castle. Yeah,
I totally see what you mean when you describe it
that way. I mean they were quite sharp, Yeah, unmistakably malofficent.
(26:14):
And even though there isn't a lot of hiking trails here, like,
aside from this gigantic loop at Black Canyon, you definitely
have to do the whole scenic drive along the South
Rim as well, because there are so many of those
great overlooks, and the drive is very doable in a
smaller car, especially Yeah, around the top there's just not
a lot of trails. Yeah, not not so much, especially
(26:35):
not really on the South Rim. Yeah. But one of
the craziest things that came from these overlooks, you can
um you can actually see across the canyon to the
North Rim, where there's another like scenic drive and more trails.
That's actually super close. But since there's no bridge or
anything connecting the two sides of the canyon, you actually
need to drive a couple of hours around just to
get there, right, just like all those early explorers who
(26:57):
went all the way around the south end of the canyon,
except much faster now because you're in a car. And
I definitely did that. I remember carving out one day
to explore the North Rim and I was excited because
this side is much less crowded. It's naturally it's out
of the way, so there aren't as many people on
the parking lots are much more open, and another bonus,
(27:19):
the trails are longer. So it's really a win win
for me because I like long trails and I do
not like crowds. Yeah, I remember like looking at your
North Rim photos and they were just absolutely stunning. I mean,
you're gonna have to post some of those on the
park Landia pod Instagram will do um. But it looks
like there's a ton more elevation game there. Yeah. The
(27:40):
trails on the North Rom feel very different from the
trails in the South Rim, and I think the biggest
example of that is the North Vista Trail, which is
by far my favorite trail over there. It's about seven
miles round trip to the top of what's called Green Mountain.
It didn't really seem like a mountain to me, more
of this gigantic rocky hill. I don't know if it
(28:03):
it is a mountain or whatever, but I so I
did the North Fistered Trail to the top of this
mountain and it starts by the ranger station at the
north rim. We used threw a bunch of stage brush
juniper forest and then kind of steadily ascends up this
mountain to a point that has incredible sweeping views. You're
kind of above the tree like, there's no real trees
(28:26):
blocking your view up there, and you can see down
into the canyon almost like the entire length of it,
with these snowy mountains way off in the background. Now,
you also did that Dead Horse trail, right, I did. Yeah,
that one was a little bit shorter. It was about
five miles round trip and a little trickier and just
in the sense that it's a lot more exposed to
(28:46):
the sun. You kind of the trail begins by this
old like road. It used to be a dirt road
for vehicle traffic. Now it's closed off just for hiking. Yeah. So,
and then you go through the sloping meadow and then
kind of up down, eventually ending out an overlook of
the east portal section of the canyon. So it's neat
(29:08):
to see that area from a totally different vantage point too,
because that's where on the other side of the South
Ring you can drive down. So I was able to
do that one day and then hike out to the
Dead Horse Trail and see it from from this angle.
And it was great food. All right. So at the
(29:32):
beginning of the episode, we said, we'd like to talk
more about the town of Montrose, Um that's where we
were staying, and I just really loved it. Yeah, the
time has come to talk about Montrose. So when we
were first driving in, I thought it would be kind
of boring, kind of lackluster. I had very low expectations,
but I am thrilled to report that Montrose blew those
(29:55):
expectations out of the water. I really liked it there,
especially that little like speed geasy cocktail bar um felonious. Yeah,
I think that's so. I don't know how to pronounce it,
but it's like a combination of Phil and Melanie. I
think it's the two owners. I remember reading it on
their website and loving that. It's really cute. Yeah, we
loved it so much. We actually went there two nights
(30:17):
in a row. I know. Yeah, it was a total
surprise because you found it. You were like googling bars
or something, and you found this speakeasy bar, and I
would never expect to see such a legit cocktail bar
in town, this small Yeah, no, I I really did
love that. It was really cool because when you walked in,
(30:37):
you had to ring a doorbell, like a real doorbell,
and then you had to give a password to get in.
And I didn't know the password. Yeah, And the second
night I had found it on their Instagram. Yes, yes,
I remember. So we didn't have the password and they
opened this little kind of window in the door and yeah,
(30:58):
it feels very Maffia and you're in the alley and
we're like, oh, we don't know. And she was like, well,
tell me a joke. And I think you actually repeated
your Masa verity joke. Of course, right, I definitely did.
Do you want to revive that right now? Oh gosh,
I'm still embarrassed about it. Everybody loves it. Why did
the snake cross the road? I don't know to get
(31:19):
to the other Masa? There you go? Yes, yeah, so
that's the one you told the the woman at Felonies,
and I don't remember her reaction. She was probably confused,
but she was just like, Okay, come in. She was
really nice. She was really nice, and service there was
thoroughly wonderful and splunted like everybody there was great. Yeah,
(31:41):
they're a little privacy. Yeah, it was a little like
sea through curtains all around the table. Yeah. I love
any bar that's kind of dark intimate with all these
little like little nooks like this was a pretty spacious
bar with a wrap around bar and like different lounge
chairs and sections like high like it was great, and
(32:02):
we got our own little section surrounded by this like
red mahogany curtain, so we kind of felt like we're
hiding away in a FOURT, which is always what I
want when I'm having cocktails. Yes, I remember they made
that old fashion on a table side cart, I know,
very impressive. This is probably the first time we've had
like table side mixology at a national park, I think
(32:24):
or near a National park, and that were really reminded me,
like any anything served off like a bar cart just
totally reminds me of like being in our loft in
Chicago and all the drinks used to make from that
bar cart that was like your thing. I remember that
Carol Wax cart. I know, yeah, you branded it. You
had like customized coasters that you stamped with this head
(32:44):
menus and everything. Yeah, I was a little bit of
a nerd. I still am a nerd. But that's fine everybody.
I mean, I loved it. Obviously. I benefited greatly from that.
And then any time we would have company over, it
was such a hit because everyone would be so impressed
and you would have you your own little wood chips
smoke girl for smoked cocktails like those glasses. I made
my own bidders. Yeah, oh yeah, you really did. Maybe
(33:06):
we should just like open our ound speak easy. I
think that's what. No, let's just keep on returning. Well,
they're great, they do a good job, they do great. Yeah.
Then the charcouterie boards, they were also so affordable. They
were just yeah, they're a little jim because I was
not ready for that to be there. No, I wasn't
(33:27):
ready for any of this, this charcuterie board, these cocktails,
this wonderful service, the whole vibe that that place is
an absolute must. So it's definitely worth seeking out and
going down this alley that you feel like you shouldn't
be going down, because it's right, it's where you want
to be. And then so yeah, we went to it twice.
I think after the second night we're there, after drinks,
(33:48):
we were talking about going to this bowling alley in town,
just down the street, and it was like a legit
old school Americana bowling alley called Rose Bowl, and it
was so very good, really awesome. We've got some local
beers there, and I also like bowld the best game
of my entire life. I've never bowled that good before.
And the other place that we really liked was that
(34:09):
Backstreet Bagel Company. Yeah, that was really good too. I'm
like kind of getting more into bagels lately, um as
if I'm just discovering them or something like they're really
I know, I know, I've never well, here's the thing, like,
I've never been much of a bagel person because I
think when it comes to like circular carbs, I guess
(34:33):
I prefer donuts. You're only allowed one circular carb, only one.
You can't like both either bagels or donuts, right, So,
but I think I've come around to the fact that
I think bagels are actually great pretty hiking food, or
at least they're like much better than donuts, because I
don't want to have like this sugar rash then crash
while I'm on a trail and Backstreet Bagel Company, right,
in downtown Mantros or downtown with you know quotes around it.
(34:57):
This place had great bagels, and I remember the first
morning I went, I had a local specialty, a green
chili bagel. I can't love ground chilies. I can't say
no to green chili anything. And then on another morning
I went in like kind of the opposite direction, I
got something sweet. I got a blueberry bagel, which is
a little taboo for bagel coronois sewers. And the thing
(35:20):
that made it even more taboo was I got it
with vanilla raising cream cheese, so basically frosting. I basically
had like a little bagel cake sandwich. You really don't
have a sweet tooth, though, right, That's right. That's what
I like to tell people. Yeah, Um, you know, I'm
more of a savory bagel guy myself, and I'm usually
pretty simple with my bagel taste. I just like like
playing cream cheese on a classic bagel solid and I
(35:42):
love old fashioned doughnuts, so it's like, oh, yeah, that's right,
I love yeah, and you like old fashioned cocktails like
I love how thoroughly classic your tastes are and how
utterly insane mine are. I'm like Oh yeah, give me
a blueberry bagel with like vanilla frosting playing. It's like
your style, you know, it's all over the place and
I love it. Yeah. But um, we do have the
(36:06):
same taste about national parks that we do. We do
and that's what matters. So we'll be back with more
of the park Landia Podcast from my Heart Radio. Hi
(36:26):
am Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia. Today
we're talking about Black Canyon to the Gunnison National Park,
my favorite um. And with that, it's time to wrap
up with our segment on our favorite things at national
parks that we visit. Yes, it's that time and today
obviously we're gonna share with each other our favorite thing
(36:48):
about Black Canyon of the Gunnison and neither of us
know what we're gonna say. So I have my secret
little favorite thing. You have your secret favorite thing? Um.
Do you want to go first? You want to share
you what your favorite thing about Black Canyon was. My
favorite thing about the Black Canyon was canning to spend
that quality time with you. Um. I feel like we
(37:08):
were like in a rush in the like a couple
of weeks before that and getting there. It just allowed
me to finish my work. You know, you got to
do your own thing. But then we got to spend
that day like slid like salad together, you know, and
turn off, turned on airplane mode, and we just enjoyed
(37:29):
the park. Yeah, you're yeah, that's true. This was a
nice little this compared to other National parks that we've
been to, especially during this time frame, I thought Back
Canyon was more laid back and comfortable and at a
good steady pace. And also just Montros is very enjoyable
and kind of set the tone and honestly the historical
value of it all. I mean, just what they had
(37:50):
to do to get through there and to survey it,
I mean that was beautiful. But spending the time learning
with you, that's what I loved. Always so sentimental and sweet.
What is yours? Um Mine would probably be that Oak
Flat Loop trail, And although I said I think in
(38:10):
general I prefer the hiking trails in the North Rim
for a variety of reasons, this trail stands out because one,
it dips below the canyon rim a little bit, so
you got a taste of that without having to to
descend like all the way down to the bottom, and
like have some I think I would be like terrified
of the heights and stuff. It sounds really primal. But
(38:32):
so that was fun and it was like a somewhat sizeable,
mildly challenging trail, which I always seek out. But the
thing that obviously made it really exciting for me was
my bear sighting. The best. That was the best bear sighting.
And this was because I've been counting. I've been keeping
chacking this like a crazy person, the different national parks
I've seen a bear in, and Black Canyon is by
(38:53):
far the best. This is my favorite sighting, my closest
sighting bill you know, still being safe. It's not like
I was like running in to it or anything like that.
And it was just great. I'm really glad I got
to have that little moment and then take the photos
and it was just standing perfectly still like it wanted
me to do. So. So I guess, So, now, what
(39:15):
three things would you take to Black Canyon if we
were to return, which we will. Well, I would actually
really love to camp there, so um and then I'm
talking about tent camping. Um, so I would love to
bring a tent for that, some firewood if it's allowed,
because I depending on the time of the season, just
like every national parks like danger times and nonduture times,
(39:39):
and that would definitely make sure to bring my like
professional camera if I was down there hiking through it,
because that would make for the best photos. Yeah, that's true,
especially since the river and like the in your canyon
is so far away and deep. It's hard to capture that,
(40:00):
uh in just a phone. Like you get a sense
of it and it looks amazing, but it would be
nice to capture more that detail and depth of the
Black Canyon. What about it for you? For me, I
would say, keeping in mind that like next time, I
would you know, I would like to at least tempt
going into the in your canyon great shoes with a
great footing. I don't want to me slipping and sliding
(40:22):
to my death, and I want I also think it's
important here, especially here, to have like leggings or something
I've I've been hiking increasingly with those because they provide
good sun protection and bug protection while still being lightweight
enough that they don't make me feel overheated if it's
sunny and hot, and so I would want something like that,
(40:43):
and also maybe something for my arms in a similar format,
because I've seen those in different stores, like hiking stores,
and I don't have them yet, but I want them.
And then I think you're more of giving me like
a birthday list than your feet conveniently naming the things
I wantating for my birthday. Yeah. And then the third
(41:03):
thing I guess I would bring would be similar to
your camera thing. I would bring binoculars. I think this
would be a particularly great part for that because the
cannon is very, very deep, and you it's hard to
really see any detail down there. You can see like
the white water from the river, like in the far distance,
but I wouldn't be able to like see the details
(41:24):
aside from like the east portal view. Um, I want
to be up by the painted wall overlook and I
want to be able to look down and just get
a get a better feel, and bnocutors would be really
great for that. Well, what I think is great is
that we pretty much are going right into our dream vacation,
which it's camping for myself. Um, you know, those trails
(41:46):
and that hiking for you. I mean, it's just yeah, amazing,
because that's I think we're on. We're talking about two
parts of the same trip right now, Essentially, I'm talking
about how we're going to sleep, and you're going to
talk about how we do what we want to do,
so right, Yeah, Because ultimately my dream here would be
to do one of these in your Canyan hikes with
(42:07):
you to the river. I don't want to do it alone.
Like there are some like really hardcore hikes that I'm
happy to do on my own and I do, but
this is something I think I'd be too nervous to
attempt because it's so far outside my comfort zone and
I know it would be really really strenuous and probably
terrifying lee steep, But it is one of those like
bucket list experiences that I think I would love to
(42:28):
do one day. Just work mysyche myself up to it.
Oh yeah, I mean facing fears is the best kind
of bucket list experience. I mean, it's just like those
intense cave tours at the places like Carl's Bed. Yeah. Yeah,
it's totally like similar kind of mindset. As long as
we're not crashing down the Gunnison River on a rubber mattress,
I'm down to try anything. You've been listening to the
(42:52):
park Landia podcast, a show about national parks by Heart Radio,
created by Matt Caro Wak, Brad Caro Wak, and Christopher
had eiotis produced and edited by Mike John's executive produced
by Christopher hasiotas special thanks to Gabrielle Collins, Crystal Waters,
and the rest of the Parklandia crew and Hey listeners.
If you're enjoying the show, leave us a review on
(43:12):
Apple Podcast. It helps other people like you find our show.
You can keep up with us on social media. Check
out photos from our travels on Instagram at Parklandia Pod,
and join in the conversation in our Facebook group, Parklandia Rangers.
Thank you so much for listening.
So I often do this thing where I mentally compare
National parks to Disney movies in my head. It's just
this thing my brain kind of instinctively does. It's really
more like an uncontrollable impulse of mine. I guess. I
mean that makes sense considering National Parks in Disney World
are two of our favorite places. Yeah, definitely true or
top two. And when I was hiking through black Handing
(00:21):
of the Gunness in National Park in Western Colorado, I
kept thinking it kind of reminded me of Maleficen's Castle
and sleeping beauty with all these like twisted, gnarly trees especially,
and then of course the pitch blackness of the canyon,
so deep, so steep, it's constantly shrouded in its own shadows. Yeah,
it's a really hauntingly beautiful place. I mean it's intimidating
(00:42):
in all the right ways. Yes. And instead of fairies though,
it's adorable black bear cubs fortunately, no curses, no sleeping,
just pure beauty. Hi. I'm Matt and I'm brand This
is park Landia. We packed up our loft in Chicago,
moved into an RV, and now we're traveling in the
country full time visiting America's national parks. Today we're talking
(01:05):
about Black Canyon of the Gunniston National Park in Colorado.
Thanks for listening. The diversity of Colorado's national parks really
just astounds me. Right before this, we were in Ma
Severity National Park, as I'm sure you remember, because you're
(01:26):
obsessed with that place. Yes, and I think we talked
about that in episode three, Right we did. We did,
you were so excited to do so. But even though
that park is only a few hours from here, it
totally feels like another part of like the Galaxy, entirely
compared to Black Canyon. Yeah, we had a few weeks
in between my work events and our trip to the
Black Canyon came in between Albuquerque and Wyoming. Um, we
(01:48):
had about a month to kill in Colorado, And what
a better excuse to visit national parks. Yeah, seriously, and honestly,
if we're gonna like kill a month in any state,
it's good to do it in Colorado. There's really an
endless ory of things to do and places to go
and trails to hike. Such a beautiful, diverse state, it
really is. Yes, it is a Black cand of the
(02:09):
Gunnison actually gets its name from the Gunnison River that
carved it and the fact that the canyon walls are
so dark. It's just so beautiful because it's like located
near the small town of Montrose, where we stayed at
the k A campground for a few nights. Yeah, this
is honestly one of the most convenient towns I think
we've ever stayed in near National Park. It was literally
like fifteen minutes from our r V to the National
(02:31):
Park entrance, so easy. And also in the town there
was a good amount of places to eat and visit
as well to keep us busy and entertained in between
the National Park. So that was that was great and
kind of surprising because I wasn't expecting much. They also
had a rental car facility that made it especially easy
for us to get around while we kept the r
(02:52):
V parked at the campground, because some parks aren't like
as accessible for larger vehicles, and this is one of
them for sure. The roads are mostly like quite small,
and they're narrow, and you know, there's lots of winding
roots and steep grades, and the visitor center parking lot
is so tiny there was barely any room at all. Yeah,
it definitely filled up really quick. I remember the first
(03:13):
day I went to Black Canyon, I was in the
rental car. I went by myself while you were getting
some work done. And I guess it was this kind
of inadvertent reconnaissance trip as well, because I had no
idea through my research. I didn't know the roads are
so narrow, and I didn't know the parking lots were
so small. So thank goodness we had this car. So
I was like, oh, wow, good to know, because the
(03:34):
RV would like not work out very well here unless
we woke up the crack of dawn and took up
five parking spaces the bane of everybody's existence there. I'm sure, right,
I know, I'm usually one doing the driving and the
gas pumping and the hookups and uh even the maintenance.
Yeah well, I mean, even though I'm not much of
a help with r V, I think it's payback for
(03:54):
all those times they brought you coffee and donuts from
Dark Matter in Chicago, so we can just call it
even okay, or even yes, I mean over the years,
I probably it's been like I invested like a thousand
dollars in donuts at dark Matter. You know that's actually
very true. I mean wouldn't be surprised as embarrassing probably
like eight bucks a day. Yeah, that's the coffee there
(04:16):
is not chee if the donuts are not cheap um,
but they're sure, but they're good and I made a
habit of it, for better or worse. But anyway, Montrose
was surprisingly wonderful, like I said, and we'll talk more
about that later, so stay tuned for that. But first
I think we should dive in and start with some
of the geological background of Black Canyon first, and what
(04:37):
forces were involved in shaping this Kavernus behemoth geology. Yeah,
when most people think of the canyons and national parks,
they obviously think of the Grand Canyon, which looks nothing
like the Black Canyon. I mean, they're totally different environments, sizes, shapes,
and despite the fact that they were shaped the same way,
they are all very right right. You know what I'd
(04:59):
love to see. I'd love to see one of those
like US weekly style showoffs of like who Are at
Best Canyon Edition? A little like yeah between Canyon and
Black Canyon. No, I'm not there, but really they're really even.
They're just hard to compare. Between the two because they
look nothing alike. I mean, the only thing they really
have in common is these raging rivers, And I really
(05:21):
do mean they're raging like you can hear these suckers
from all the way at the top of the canyon
and they're almost ear piercing up there. Yeah, raging feels
almost like an understatement. It's like a furious river, like
so furious. Yeah, you can never under underestimate the power
of water. This stuff will mess you up. And just
seeing what us to like rock is really incredible. The
(05:43):
fact that a river can look so thin and tiny
from afar and still have the strength of chisel this
jagged canyon is unbelievable. Yeah, this didn't happen overnight though.
I mean, it took a cool two million years to
get the Gunnison River to carve this canyon into the
depths of these Colorado rocks. I think it goes at
(06:03):
a rate of one inch per one hundred years. It's
a little slow, but you know, it's faster than what
I would be able to accomplish for sure if I
was carving this myself. This is a canyon fast and
furious style. Yeah. Sure, um, but like understandably, it does
say time to whiddle through these Some of the rocky
(06:26):
are so hard, Like there's Percambrian nice and schist that's
billions of years old and you can't rush these things.
The carving of a canyon, in culinary terms, is more
like a slow stew than a microwave for meal, to
be honest, Or how about it's kind of like a
crazy horse versus mount rush. Oh yeah, that's actually great.
(06:46):
That's a much more beautiful metaphor really excited about that one. Yeah,
that was a good metaphor. Yeah, we recently went to
both of those, which is why it's freshing your memory. Probably, Yeah,
But the thing is, you know a lot about microwaving
those meals on their v don't you. Um, I don't, don't. Please,
don't help me like that. I just let me enjoy
my freezer ile package genders in peace and secrecy. Please.
(07:10):
It's funny because we didn't even own a microwave and
are loft in Chicago, and now we're making full use
of the fact that we have our RV game with
a microwave. Yes, I mean it's great for hot pockets popcorn,
which you pretend not to but you do secretly like, um,
I feel like our microwave is turning you against me.
It's interesting. I'm getting thrown under the bus a lot
(07:32):
here anyway. Anyway, so let's get back on track here
and get to the bottom of this canyon formation. But
not literally the bottom, because we were not brave enough
to hike down there. No, not this trip anyway, that
seems like um in undertaking to stay the least. Don't
get ideas. I know you love hiking and you'll do it. Yeah,
I really wanted to, like one of the days we're here.
I was seriously looking into it. But then different things
(07:53):
I read and her in the visitor center, I'm like,
maybe maybe another time, and we have more time here
and I'm not quite so scared. So getting back to
the river and the carveet of the canyon, this thing,
like we said, is a real beast. And the park
doesn't contain the entire canyon length of this river per se,
(08:14):
but it has the twelve miles of them, and these
twelve miles are the most impressive, so impressive. In fact,
the park features the deepest sections of the canyon, and
it's so steep that the canyon floor only gets thirty
three minutes of sunlight per day. That's crazy. It sounds
kind of depressing, Like can you imagine letting the bottom
of canyon only getting thirty three minutes of sunlight? Yeah,
(08:37):
it's like living things. I know, it's like living in
Alaska in winter, I guess, And I it's kind of appropriate.
My research, I found this like hauntingly perfect quote from
an author named Dwayne Van den Bouche, if I'm saying
that right. He wrote this book called Images of America
The Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and in it he
says this quote, sevolcanans of the American West are longer
(08:59):
and m are deeper, but none combines the depth, sheerness, narrowness, darkness,
and dread of the Black Canyon. Wow, that's a good quote. Jeez,
I know it sounds like a scary story. I love
it so as you can you can kind of understand
why I'm getting serious. Maleficent Castle vives from this. Oh yeah,
it really it really fits. And not only are the
rock walls of the canyon dark to begin with, but
(09:21):
the fact that this place is almost constantly immersed in
its own shadow is why the Black Canyon has such
a dark, ominous name befitting this Disney villain, So it
all makes sense. So this this river actually started raging
fifteen million years ago as a runoff from the LaSalle
Mountains in the West Elk Mountains. Um, this is when
(09:41):
it started carving its way into the ancient rocks as well.
There's a lot of volcanic ash in the region. Yeah, exactly.
And the fact that this river is so fast moving
and strong made it possible to cut through I rock
that's especially tough, even if the pace was kind of
slow and took millions of years to do so, And
coupled with the hardness of the rock, such a powerful,
(10:02):
roaring river is why this canyon got so steep over years.
That reminds me of that line from the Devilwars Bratto
and m Miranda says, by all means move at a
glacial pace. You know how that thrills me. Yeah, I'm
totally imagining Miranda Priestly talking to this river. I can
just like see her visiting Black Canyon and I'm sure
(10:24):
she would also love all the florals on the surface
to Oh yeah, absolutely, very in season, just beautiful, because
right around those you get these the river would drop
thirty four ft per mile through the canyon, and it
means it's pretty steep descent within just the first few miles.
But you see all those the florals with that, I mean,
it's just you can't beat it. It is. Yeah, it's
(10:45):
a nice j exposition because this canyon is so like
jet black and kind of scary. It looks like an
evil canyon. Not to like throw shade at it, because
it has plenty of its own shade. That was that
was a nice little um. I like, how you're giving
yourself could I'll give my right? But yeah, the this
natural juxtaposition of this canyon just surrounded with these like
(11:06):
bright vibrant flowers and then the greenery of the trees
too up along the canyon rim is really quite nice
and very unusual. I don't think I've ever been to
a canyon like this before or definitely not want this intimidating,
that's for sure. So in regards to the canyon, just
how steep and deep it is, it's actually the Black
(11:29):
Candy contains the fifth steepest drop for any mountain fed
river in all of North America. And to put that
in a little bit of perspective when you're comparing it
to Grand Canyon. Again, the Colorado River and the Grand
Canyon in contrast, drops seven and a half feet for
a mile, So yeah, compared to thirty four feet for
per the Black Candy. That's that's a big difference. And
(11:53):
I like, I don't mean to keep turning this into
an advertent competition between the two canyons. But that's why
I'm like, thank this who wore best? Thing? Is such
a good idea basically rights itself. Yeah, and considering how
the beautiful patterns in the rocks here, I think it
would be a really tough competition. Like the painted wall,
which is the tallest clift in Colorado. Oh my god. Yeah,
that painted wall is magnificent, so gorgeous, so unique. It's
(12:16):
this huge broad cliff face that's strided with these lighter
strips of rock which are called pegman tite dikes. So
the whole cliff almost looks like this gigantic zebra, except like,
instead of white, it's just like a lighter shade of black. Yeah,
And you can you give me even a more amazing
view from the painted wall overlook on the South room drive. Yes,
you have to do that it's so easy. I mean,
(12:37):
there are lots of overlooks just directly off South Room Drive,
and this is I think the best overlook that I saw.
I'm like, of all, they're all amazing, like I said,
but it's definitely worth grappling with traffic on that road
to pull off at the Painted Wall overlook for sure.
Speaking of traffic, I think we have a traffic jam
and we're going to come back. Do you have to
(12:58):
this commercial breaks? Hi? I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This
(13:24):
is park Landia, and today we're talking about Black Canyon
of the Gunnison National Park in Colorado history. Now that
you know how steep and dark and raging this canyon is,
you can understand why Native Americans and settlers were so
intimidated by it and why they avoided it like the plague. Yeah,
this is definitely a type of canyon that really brings
a screeching halt to any travel or expedition because it's
(13:48):
almost completely a vertical drop off the canyon walls, so
not great for horseback riders or like any living thing
that doesn't fly. Yeah. Yeah. The Ute Indians um called
the River Much Rocks Big Water, which is totally fits.
I mean the depth and the darkness of the canyon
made them superstitious of it. Yeah, they were right to
(14:10):
be superstitious of it. I think something this treacherous is
definitely worrisome. It looks like, like I said, it looks
like it could be an evil place. I totally understand. Yeah.
The first time anyone actually recorded any major exploration of
this place was in eighteen fifty three by Captain John Williams,
no other than Gunnison is his last name. Um so
(14:31):
now you know where the river gets it. Yeah, and
much like Lewis and Clark, similar kind of exploratory fashion.
He was leading an expedition from St. Louis to San Francisco,
and when his party hit the canyon, it was basically
this giant roadblock. So he wound up eventually just going
way out of his way to travel around the south
end of the canyon because it was just impassable. Yeah,
(14:54):
he wasn't the last person to meet up with the
canyon though. When we stopped at the visitor center in
the South Rim, we learned more about the can in
exploration at the movie screening they were having. Yeah, that
was a really good movie by the way like especially good.
I think it's one of the best National Park movies
we've seen, and we've seen a lot. We always make
that a priority. Yeah, I was filled with some fascinating
(15:14):
information and we had no idea about most of it.
Like how William Jackson Palmer spent a ton of time
and money to build a railroad from Denver Um through
the San Juan Mountain. Yeah, I mean quite an undertaking.
And it did take a ton of time and money,
of course, like more than a year to construct a
(15:35):
fifteen mile stretched through the canyon, which wound up costing
about hundred sixty thousand dollars per mile. And that's a
lot of money like nowadays, but considering this was in
the late eighteen hundreds, that's an overwhelming amount of money.
I can't even fathom what that must have been like
for them to even attempt. Yeah, that's just crazy. And
then in the two, an engineer named Brian Bryant surveyed
(15:59):
the higher canyon, though a lot of his crew gave
up because they were actually too frightened of it. Yeah,
I get it. I would definitely do the same thing.
They wind up building the rest of the railroad again
around the south end of the canyon, which seems to
be the go to kind of alternative route, and in
addition to miners riding it to Utah, it was also
used as a luxury amount of travel for vacationers, including
(16:23):
shockingly right your kipling. Oh a nice little Disney connection there, right, Yeah,
so perfect. So he wrote it in eight nine, and
he was totally smitten with it. He loved it. I
just wish he wrote a jungle Book sequel called the
Canyon Book or something. Eventually, that drain Aligne was taken
apart in the nineteen fifties though, um so there's no
(16:45):
more of that today. And in the early nineteen hundreds,
other surveyors began looking for ways to reroute some of
the new river into nearby valleys to help with the
irrigation and the farming. Right right, which is another fun
fact we have zero idea about until the movie we watched,
The Visitors Center. Someone really needs to do that movie,
like a belated Oscar or something. It's really very well
(17:08):
done and super informative. Yeah, And in that we learned
about Abraham Lincoln Fellows and William Torrence doing the exploring
and they actually floated the entire canyon length of the
river on a rubber mattress. I can't. I mean, wooden
boats would have been just shattered and by the rocks,
and so they had to come up with you know,
(17:29):
plan B. Yeah, and they did it. They went for it,
which sounds like the most terrifying thing, but miraculously the
duo made it out safely on their mattress boat and
they were able to find sits in the canyon along
the way to build this river diversion tunnel they were
looking for, which is just totally crazy to think about
how intense these explorations here have been over the years
(17:52):
and the different techniques and attempts that were made from
various groups like wow, yeah, Black Canyon is not easy
to navigate and it this just proves the incredible strength
of nature. It really does. Nowadays, no one's floating that
river in a mattress instead. Black Cannon with the Gunnison
was named a National Monument in ninety three and upgraded
(18:12):
to National park status, which I think is a very
fitting finale for this ferociously beautiful place. Trails, even though
we didn't track down into the canyon, we definitely did
explore plenty on foot here, yeah, and it is really
(18:33):
easy to do with a small rental car, and you
don't even need to hike down in order to get
to the canyon floor either. By the way, there's this long,
winding steep road that you can take down there as
soon as you enter the park. It's called the East
Portle Road, and you just take the immediate right pretty
much if you go through the canyon or the National
Park entrance. And since the grade is six and the
(18:55):
curves are so sharp, it's only recommended for small vehicles
that can handle it. Our view be impossible to impossible.
I didn't even know if they're like a lot. I
think they probably have length. If you want to die
descriptions right, that's crazy, that wouldn't work at all. But
it's definitely cool to get down there and gawk at
the sheer walls and roaring white water. This area the
(19:15):
cannon isn't as deep as kind of the heart of
the park. This is more towards the eastern end, but
the views are no less impressive, and you really are
quite a ways down for sure, so you're deep in
it and just surrounded by these soaring, jagged, dark walls. Yeah,
I mean you can even picnic down there or fish.
That's great as well. I mean it's just a great
(19:36):
setting for that, right, Yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I
would definitely picnic. I'm not much of a fisher. But
another cool thing about the walls are a little bit
more spread out down here, so you have more light.
So because I wouldn't really want to picnic in like darkness,
so I'd rather just like Hike and Marvelotte overlooks too. So,
and the best place to start for that is at
(19:59):
the South Rim, which is by far the most visited
section of the park and the one closest to where
we're staying. This is also the section of the park
where you take this east port of road, so we're
kind of in the thick of it. Yeah. I remember
like parking at one of the overlooks because there was
no parking spaces left at the visitor center, especially for
the RV, and then just walking along the Canyon Rim
to go see that movie but and buy some souvenirs. Yeah,
(20:22):
so we're able to find ways around this parking issue,
and at this visitor center where the movie theater or
movie movie theater, I wish at the visitor center. We
we're also able to find this larger National Parks passport
book for me because I'm kind of maxing out mine
and it's somewhat falling apart, Like it's definitely of overearse.
(20:46):
Why because you threw that sucker away? That was I
got excited and ambitious and I was like, yes, I
need to upgrade to something larger, but then regretted it
because I spent all this money on it and then
resented it because I'm still attached to my original passport book. Yeah,
there's just so much history there for you. Yeah, but
even though it mind up being a waste, I really
(21:07):
have no problem with giving more money to the National
Park Service. I'm always happy to do that. Yeah, absolutely,
I Mean the beautiful thing is right from the from
the visitor center there, we got to do a few
different trails, you know, because they're all like kind of
connected in this giant loop that brought us back to
the car where actually started. Um, but where we actually
(21:29):
started this trail was the rim Rock Nature Trail, which
was flat and easy and only about one mile round
trip by itself. Yeah, definitely easy, and it's connects right
with a visitor center. So that's just a no brainer.
And I think we actually before we got into the
midst of the hike and we went to this overlook
that's a little a few steps down for the visitor center,
(21:51):
and that was like our first, I think, inspiring view.
It was such a good view. It was kind of crowded.
There was a lot of people there because it was
right by the visitors center, but plenty of room for everybody,
and the railing takes you pretty close to the edge.
It's a little nerve wracking. Was afraid to hold my
phone up because I thought it would suddenly drop it.
And then at the end of that, but so after
(22:15):
we do this um little overlook here, we continue on
hiking and we get more and more of these show
stopping canyon views along the way. It's just kind of
NonStop into this jagged, dark canyon. It none of it
really looks like real life. It all just looks surreal.
Yeah it really doesn't. I mean, it's just stunning, Like
it's probably one of the most beautiful places I've been.
(22:39):
And I just love again how these trails connect. And
you know, the next trail that we started was that
Oak Flat Top Loop trail UM which was a tiny
bit tougher though, since it's longer and has more elevation. Game. Yeah,
so this one's about two miles total, and I think
that makes it a bit more challenging is that it
(22:59):
dips below the canyon room a little bit, which is awesome.
You get a different perspective here, and it has more
tree cover, which is a benefit, especially for hiking midday.
And it's sunny and summery like when we were there,
and there's lots of gorgeous aspen trees, oaks, giant boulders.
It's really more of like the foresty area of the
(23:20):
park that we experienced, with so many little nooks that
give you these perfect panoramas of the canyon too. Yeah.
I mean you actually saw a bear there, right? Yeah?
I really, yes. I the first day when I came
here and your back of the RV working, I did
this trail so I didn't wind up doing this trail twice.
And towards the end of the this like Oak Flat
(23:41):
Loop trail, I saw my most exciting beartt like signing
I've ever seen in any National park. I think, well,
it was pretty close to right, and it was really close. Yeah,
So I was on my way back up out of
the canyon and I saw this large animal kind of
shuffling around in the corner of my eye, and I
didn't think it was a barrett for so I probably
assumed it was I don't know, like a gopher or
(24:04):
something I don't know, like a big gopher. And so
I look, and sure enough it was this young black
bear like I probably a cob. It was still pretty
small and clearly clearly young. So then that's good too,
because I don't know if I would want to be
that close to an adult bear. But yeah, it was
close enough to be thrilling, but still adorable. Looks like
(24:26):
a large jetty bear. We made sustained eye contact, we
had a moment and you had a moment. Yeah, just
enough for me to take a few photos. And he
was just so chill and patient, like, looked at me, posed,
and then scampered off. That's that's truly amazing. I mean,
I am. I'm really jealous that I didn't go that
(24:47):
first day with you, um, because we didn't really get
see any animals when we hiked together. No, yeah, I
don't think we did, aside from probably swirls and chipmunks.
And whatnot. But we did see a warning sign on
the side of the trail about aggressive deer in the area,
which I think was just the adrenaline rush we needed.
The mere prospect of being I don't know, trampled by deer. Yes,
(25:10):
that's so exciting. And to just be trampled by deer
to death. Yep, yep, that's what I think of when
I think of fun exactly know, when we when we
get done with that oak flat loop trail, um. The
final portion of the trails that we did together was
the Cedar Point Nature Trail, which is another flat and
(25:31):
easy section that brought us back towards the parking lot. Right.
So this is like the last section of that loop,
and this is I think the easiest part. This takes
you out of the canyon, away from the canyon, so
you don't really have any canyon views here. You mostly
you like cross the section of the road actually at
one point, and then you grow through this open meadow
(25:51):
and some short, gnarly trees. And these are the trees
that I was describing earlier. They're kind of scary, sharp looking,
tangley and thick. These are the ones that felt like
the ones that surround the left in the castle. Yeah,
I totally see what you mean when you describe it
that way. I mean they were quite sharp, Yeah, unmistakably malofficent.
(26:14):
And even though there isn't a lot of hiking trails here, like,
aside from this gigantic loop at Black Canyon, you definitely
have to do the whole scenic drive along the South
Rim as well, because there are so many of those
great overlooks, and the drive is very doable in a
smaller car, especially Yeah, around the top there's just not
a lot of trails. Yeah, not not so much, especially
(26:35):
not really on the South Rim. Yeah. But one of
the craziest things that came from these overlooks, you can
um you can actually see across the canyon to the
North Rim, where there's another like scenic drive and more trails.
That's actually super close. But since there's no bridge or
anything connecting the two sides of the canyon, you actually
need to drive a couple of hours around just to
get there, right, just like all those early explorers who
(26:57):
went all the way around the south end of the canyon,
except much faster now because you're in a car. And
I definitely did that. I remember carving out one day
to explore the North Rim and I was excited because
this side is much less crowded. It's naturally it's out
of the way, so there aren't as many people on
the parking lots are much more open, and another bonus,
(27:19):
the trails are longer. So it's really a win win
for me because I like long trails and I do
not like crowds. Yeah, I remember like looking at your
North Rim photos and they were just absolutely stunning. I mean,
you're gonna have to post some of those on the
park Landia pod Instagram will do um. But it looks
like there's a ton more elevation game there. Yeah. The
(27:40):
trails on the North Rom feel very different from the
trails in the South Rim, and I think the biggest
example of that is the North Vista Trail, which is
by far my favorite trail over there. It's about seven
miles round trip to the top of what's called Green Mountain.
It didn't really seem like a mountain to me, more
of this gigantic rocky hill. I don't know if it
(28:03):
it is a mountain or whatever, but I so I
did the North Fistered Trail to the top of this
mountain and it starts by the ranger station at the
north rim. We used threw a bunch of stage brush
juniper forest and then kind of steadily ascends up this
mountain to a point that has incredible sweeping views. You're
kind of above the tree like, there's no real trees
(28:26):
blocking your view up there, and you can see down
into the canyon almost like the entire length of it,
with these snowy mountains way off in the background. Now,
you also did that Dead Horse trail, right, I did. Yeah,
that one was a little bit shorter. It was about
five miles round trip and a little trickier and just
in the sense that it's a lot more exposed to
(28:46):
the sun. You kind of the trail begins by this
old like road. It used to be a dirt road
for vehicle traffic. Now it's closed off just for hiking. Yeah. So,
and then you go through the sloping meadow and then
kind of up down, eventually ending out an overlook of
the east portal section of the canyon. So it's neat
(29:08):
to see that area from a totally different vantage point too,
because that's where on the other side of the South
Ring you can drive down. So I was able to
do that one day and then hike out to the
Dead Horse Trail and see it from from this angle.
And it was great food. All right. So at the
(29:32):
beginning of the episode, we said, we'd like to talk
more about the town of Montrose, Um that's where we
were staying, and I just really loved it. Yeah, the
time has come to talk about Montrose. So when we
were first driving in, I thought it would be kind
of boring, kind of lackluster. I had very low expectations,
but I am thrilled to report that Montrose blew those
(29:55):
expectations out of the water. I really liked it there,
especially that little like speed geasy cocktail bar um felonious. Yeah,
I think that's so. I don't know how to pronounce it,
but it's like a combination of Phil and Melanie. I
think it's the two owners. I remember reading it on
their website and loving that. It's really cute. Yeah, we
loved it so much. We actually went there two nights
(30:17):
in a row. I know. Yeah, it was a total
surprise because you found it. You were like googling bars
or something, and you found this speakeasy bar, and I
would never expect to see such a legit cocktail bar
in town, this small Yeah, no, I I really did
love that. It was really cool because when you walked in,
(30:37):
you had to ring a doorbell, like a real doorbell,
and then you had to give a password to get in.
And I didn't know the password. Yeah, And the second
night I had found it on their Instagram. Yes, yes,
I remember. So we didn't have the password and they
opened this little kind of window in the door and yeah,
(30:58):
it feels very Maffia and you're in the alley and
we're like, oh, we don't know. And she was like, well,
tell me a joke. And I think you actually repeated
your Masa verity joke. Of course, right, I definitely did.
Do you want to revive that right now? Oh gosh,
I'm still embarrassed about it. Everybody loves it. Why did
the snake cross the road? I don't know to get
(31:19):
to the other Masa? There you go? Yes, yeah, so
that's the one you told the the woman at Felonies,
and I don't remember her reaction. She was probably confused,
but she was just like, Okay, come in. She was
really nice. She was really nice, and service there was
thoroughly wonderful and splunted like everybody there was great. Yeah,
(31:41):
they're a little privacy. Yeah, it was a little like
sea through curtains all around the table. Yeah. I love
any bar that's kind of dark intimate with all these
little like little nooks like this was a pretty spacious
bar with a wrap around bar and like different lounge
chairs and sections like high like it was great, and
(32:02):
we got our own little section surrounded by this like
red mahogany curtain, so we kind of felt like we're
hiding away in a FOURT, which is always what I
want when I'm having cocktails. Yes, I remember they made
that old fashion on a table side cart, I know,
very impressive. This is probably the first time we've had
like table side mixology at a national park, I think
(32:24):
or near a National park, and that were really reminded me,
like any anything served off like a bar cart just
totally reminds me of like being in our loft in
Chicago and all the drinks used to make from that
bar cart that was like your thing. I remember that
Carol Wax cart. I know, yeah, you branded it. You
had like customized coasters that you stamped with this head
(32:44):
menus and everything. Yeah, I was a little bit of
a nerd. I still am a nerd. But that's fine everybody.
I mean, I loved it. Obviously. I benefited greatly from that.
And then any time we would have company over, it
was such a hit because everyone would be so impressed
and you would have you your own little wood chips
smoke girl for smoked cocktails like those glasses. I made
my own bidders. Yeah, oh yeah, you really did. Maybe
(33:06):
we should just like open our ound speak easy. I
think that's what. No, let's just keep on returning. Well,
they're great, they do a good job, they do great. Yeah.
Then the charcouterie boards, they were also so affordable. They
were just yeah, they're a little jim because I was
not ready for that to be there. No, I wasn't
(33:27):
ready for any of this, this charcuterie board, these cocktails,
this wonderful service, the whole vibe that that place is
an absolute must. So it's definitely worth seeking out and
going down this alley that you feel like you shouldn't
be going down, because it's right, it's where you want
to be. And then so yeah, we went to it twice.
I think after the second night we're there, after drinks,
(33:48):
we were talking about going to this bowling alley in town,
just down the street, and it was like a legit
old school Americana bowling alley called Rose Bowl, and it
was so very good, really awesome. We've got some local
beers there, and I also like bowld the best game
of my entire life. I've never bowled that good before.
And the other place that we really liked was that
(34:09):
Backstreet Bagel Company. Yeah, that was really good too. I'm
like kind of getting more into bagels lately, um as
if I'm just discovering them or something like they're really
I know, I know, I've never well, here's the thing, like,
I've never been much of a bagel person because I
think when it comes to like circular carbs, I guess
(34:33):
I prefer donuts. You're only allowed one circular carb, only one.
You can't like both either bagels or donuts, right, So,
but I think I've come around to the fact that
I think bagels are actually great pretty hiking food, or
at least they're like much better than donuts, because I
don't want to have like this sugar rash then crash
while I'm on a trail and Backstreet Bagel Company, right,
in downtown Mantros or downtown with you know quotes around it.
(34:57):
This place had great bagels, and I remember the first
morning I went, I had a local specialty, a green
chili bagel. I can't love ground chilies. I can't say
no to green chili anything. And then on another morning
I went in like kind of the opposite direction, I
got something sweet. I got a blueberry bagel, which is
a little taboo for bagel coronois sewers. And the thing
(35:20):
that made it even more taboo was I got it
with vanilla raising cream cheese, so basically frosting. I basically
had like a little bagel cake sandwich. You really don't
have a sweet tooth, though, right, That's right. That's what
I like to tell people. Yeah, Um, you know, I'm
more of a savory bagel guy myself, and I'm usually
pretty simple with my bagel taste. I just like like
playing cream cheese on a classic bagel solid and I
(35:42):
love old fashioned doughnuts, so it's like, oh, yeah, that's right,
I love yeah, and you like old fashioned cocktails like
I love how thoroughly classic your tastes are and how
utterly insane mine are. I'm like Oh yeah, give me
a blueberry bagel with like vanilla frosting playing. It's like
your style, you know, it's all over the place and
I love it. Yeah. But um, we do have the
(36:06):
same taste about national parks that we do. We do
and that's what matters. So we'll be back with more
of the park Landia Podcast from my Heart Radio. Hi
(36:26):
am Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia. Today
we're talking about Black Canyon to the Gunnison National Park,
my favorite um. And with that, it's time to wrap
up with our segment on our favorite things at national
parks that we visit. Yes, it's that time and today
obviously we're gonna share with each other our favorite thing
(36:48):
about Black Canyon of the Gunnison and neither of us
know what we're gonna say. So I have my secret
little favorite thing. You have your secret favorite thing? Um.
Do you want to go first? You want to share
you what your favorite thing about Black Canyon was. My
favorite thing about the Black Canyon was canning to spend
that quality time with you. Um. I feel like we
(37:08):
were like in a rush in the like a couple
of weeks before that and getting there. It just allowed
me to finish my work. You know, you got to
do your own thing. But then we got to spend
that day like slid like salad together, you know, and
turn off, turned on airplane mode, and we just enjoyed
(37:29):
the park. Yeah, you're yeah, that's true. This was a
nice little this compared to other National parks that we've
been to, especially during this time frame, I thought Back
Canyon was more laid back and comfortable and at a
good steady pace. And also just Montros is very enjoyable
and kind of set the tone and honestly the historical
value of it all. I mean, just what they had
(37:50):
to do to get through there and to survey it,
I mean that was beautiful. But spending the time learning
with you, that's what I loved. Always so sentimental and sweet.
What is yours? Um Mine would probably be that Oak
Flat Loop trail, And although I said I think in
(38:10):
general I prefer the hiking trails in the North Rim
for a variety of reasons, this trail stands out because one,
it dips below the canyon rim a little bit, so
you got a taste of that without having to to
descend like all the way down to the bottom, and
like have some I think I would be like terrified
of the heights and stuff. It sounds really primal. But
(38:32):
so that was fun and it was like a somewhat sizeable,
mildly challenging trail, which I always seek out. But the
thing that obviously made it really exciting for me was
my bear sighting. The best. That was the best bear sighting.
And this was because I've been counting. I've been keeping
chacking this like a crazy person, the different national parks
I've seen a bear in, and Black Canyon is by
(38:53):
far the best. This is my favorite sighting, my closest
sighting bill you know, still being safe. It's not like
I was like running in to it or anything like that.
And it was just great. I'm really glad I got
to have that little moment and then take the photos
and it was just standing perfectly still like it wanted
me to do. So. So I guess, So, now, what
(39:15):
three things would you take to Black Canyon if we
were to return, which we will. Well, I would actually
really love to camp there, so um and then I'm
talking about tent camping. Um, so I would love to
bring a tent for that, some firewood if it's allowed,
because I depending on the time of the season, just
like every national parks like danger times and nonduture times,
(39:39):
and that would definitely make sure to bring my like
professional camera if I was down there hiking through it,
because that would make for the best photos. Yeah, that's true,
especially since the river and like the in your canyon
is so far away and deep. It's hard to capture that,
(40:00):
uh in just a phone. Like you get a sense
of it and it looks amazing, but it would be
nice to capture more that detail and depth of the
Black Canyon. What about it for you? For me, I
would say, keeping in mind that like next time, I
would you know, I would like to at least tempt
going into the in your canyon great shoes with a
great footing. I don't want to me slipping and sliding
(40:22):
to my death, and I want I also think it's
important here, especially here, to have like leggings or something
I've I've been hiking increasingly with those because they provide
good sun protection and bug protection while still being lightweight
enough that they don't make me feel overheated if it's
sunny and hot, and so I would want something like that,
(40:43):
and also maybe something for my arms in a similar format,
because I've seen those in different stores, like hiking stores,
and I don't have them yet, but I want them.
And then I think you're more of giving me like
a birthday list than your feet conveniently naming the things
I wantating for my birthday. Yeah. And then the third
(41:03):
thing I guess I would bring would be similar to
your camera thing. I would bring binoculars. I think this
would be a particularly great part for that because the
cannon is very, very deep, and you it's hard to
really see any detail down there. You can see like
the white water from the river, like in the far distance,
but I wouldn't be able to like see the details
(41:24):
aside from like the east portal view. Um, I want
to be up by the painted wall overlook and I
want to be able to look down and just get
a get a better feel, and bnocutors would be really
great for that. Well, what I think is great is
that we pretty much are going right into our dream vacation,
which it's camping for myself. Um, you know, those trails
(41:46):
and that hiking for you. I mean, it's just yeah, amazing,
because that's I think we're on. We're talking about two
parts of the same trip right now, Essentially, I'm talking
about how we're going to sleep, and you're going to
talk about how we do what we want to do,
so right, Yeah, Because ultimately my dream here would be
to do one of these in your Canyan hikes with
(42:07):
you to the river. I don't want to do it alone.
Like there are some like really hardcore hikes that I'm
happy to do on my own and I do, but
this is something I think I'd be too nervous to
attempt because it's so far outside my comfort zone and
I know it would be really really strenuous and probably
terrifying lee steep, But it is one of those like
bucket list experiences that I think I would love to
(42:28):
do one day. Just work mysyche myself up to it.
Oh yeah, I mean facing fears is the best kind
of bucket list experience. I mean, it's just like those
intense cave tours at the places like Carl's Bed. Yeah. Yeah,
it's totally like similar kind of mindset. As long as
we're not crashing down the Gunnison River on a rubber mattress,
I'm down to try anything. You've been listening to the
(42:52):
park Landia podcast, a show about national parks by Heart Radio,
created by Matt Caro Wak, Brad Caro Wak, and Christopher
had eiotis produced and edited by Mike John's executive produced
by Christopher hasiotas special thanks to Gabrielle Collins, Crystal Waters,
and the rest of the Parklandia crew and Hey listeners.
If you're enjoying the show, leave us a review on
(43:12):
Apple Podcast. It helps other people like you find our show.
You can keep up with us on social media. Check
out photos from our travels on Instagram at Parklandia Pod,
and join in the conversation in our Facebook group, Parklandia Rangers.
Thank you so much for listening.
Parklandia News
Hosts And Creators
Brad Kirouac
Matt Kirouac
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