February 19, 2024 • 39 mins
This social meal is a tradition in communities across the United States for a couple of dovetailing (fishtailing?) reasons. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and cultures behind the Friday fish fry.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Bogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Friday fish fries.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, I'm god you specified because I got a little
under the weeds this one. You told me this was
going to be a difficult one historically, and you were correct.
But that being said, you had a specific reason for
bringing this one.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, Yes, because the season of Lent is almost upon us,
or is upon us as this episode is coming out,
and this is a whole cultural thing. Yeah. And I
have a bunch of friends from Wisconsin and I don't
(00:53):
understand them all the time, but they have assured me
that this is a situation. And furthermore, I have I've
seen advertisements for or like flyers, welcoming committees for this
kind of thing around Atlanta and elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So yes, and we are going to be talking a
lot about Wisconsin in this, but a lot of other
states do it, so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, states to feel slighted.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Listener's right in oh, yeah, but yes I did. My
ex boyfriend was from Wisconsin when I was visiting his
family up there. Once I went to I think it
was June. No, it would have been July, July, okay,
in July, and there was a huge It was like,
(01:41):
I'm hoping listeners can write in about this and explain
what happened to me, because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Know at the time.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I never heard of this. I didn't know what was
going on. But he was like, we're going to this
fish fry. I was like, okay, it sounds great. And
it was alongside like a lake, and it felt more
of a it felt more to me like a festival.
Then it wasn't like I went into one restaurant. It
was like tense and so much fish. It's so many
(02:09):
potatoes of various types. And I got these buttons out
of it and I was like lamenting, like pinned back buttons.
Yes that you came to your shirt. I guess I
was lamenting to to Lauren before this. I wanted to
find them and maybe illuminate, uh, what where I had been,
(02:29):
what I had been doing, But I could not find
them alas so off listeners know what I'm talking about.
But I remember it was a very fun atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
The food was great.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
That like water, yeah, school like it was just a nice,
lovely day outside with fried fish and a lot of sides.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It was great beer that sounds terrific. Yeah, yeah, I
have never been to a Friday fish fry, but I'm
super curious about them now. I mean I have eaten
fried fish. Yes, I have eaten many of these sides
that we're going to talk about. Yes, I mean we
(03:11):
live in Atlanta. They're also true fried fish is kind
of a thing here. But yeah, yeah, I do need
to say that while doing this reading and looking at
a lot of photographs of fish fries, I was eating
(03:33):
my pre planned and earnestly lovely salad lunch today and
I was so viscerally angry m hm. And this will
certainly have an effect on my dinner me too.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I was thinking about this today because one of the
lovely things about this show I have realed is that
it does give me a wonderful opportunity to be like,
I need to get gorgonzola?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
What shall I do? And there's just so many foods that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I have in my life now that I have in
my life because of the show and because of listeners,
and I've like last night, I made too much, too
many sides for my solo Valentine's Day thing that I did,
which was great, But I'm going to make some fry
fish for the side, the extra sides, so I'm very
(04:31):
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But yes, that's also the same.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So this whole thing, the fish fry, not not maybe specifically,
but kind of has come up in a lot of episodes.
A lot of them have been surprising to me at
least the same with lent. Lent comes up a lot
in episodes that we do about food trends, traditions, but
(04:57):
for this episode specifically, we have done fish and chips.
A lot of our fish episodes, perhaps seafood perhaps perhaps
specifically some of our New Orleans episodes if you'd like
to revisit those, maybe that big Fish Industry episode that
we did out of Owahu. Yeah, yeah, And I think
(05:21):
a couple of the sides we've touched on shared totally
some things that are related to that. Some beers. Beer
can be a big part. Yeah, So what a lot.
But I guess that brings us to our question. I
guess it does Friday fish fry?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
What is it? Well, Friday fish fry is a type
of social meal where you get together with family or
friends or community on a Friday for a lunch or
dinner of filets of breaded fried fish, along with usually
some kind of fried potato and some tangy condiments. The
(06:01):
fish is usually something light and white and flaky, fried
till tender and golden brown, and condiments like wholeslaw tartar
sauce and lemon wedges are common, but the exact style
of everything is really adaptable to whatever is locally available
or preferred. It's sometimes a large service like family style
(06:23):
and or buffet sort of situation. It's just a it's
just a big old plate of comfort food, meant to
be eaten in good company, probably inexpensive, possibly with beer.
It's it's a start to your weekend and a reminder
that the good things in life don't have to be
costly or fancy. It's like being encased in the in
(06:48):
the warm golden color of a perfect ale, or or
of the perfect crispy batter. M mm hmmm. Just a
nice thing to look forward to, right right? Oh man,
I get like viscerally angry and my very nice salad
(07:09):
which had done nothing wrong, but it certainly was not
a giant plate of fried fish. Indeed. Oh okay, So yes,
any number of types of fish might be used Great
Lakes locals as here in the United States, this does
(07:30):
focus on the Great Lakes a lot. Things like a perch,
lake trout, smelts, bluegill, whitefish, or walleye can be used.
Ocean fish like cod, haddock or flounder, river fish like catfish,
other seafood like shrimp or oysters. These days there might
be a trade off between fresh local fish versus the
price of a plate, as a number of environmental and
(07:53):
fishing industry factors have led to declining populations of some
of those local traditional fishes. The fry is the breading
from a batter that puffs up like nice and thick
and fluffy. Is it breadcrumbs? Fried, thin and crisp? Is
it corn meal? Does it involve beer or milk or
butter milk? Do you put seasonings in the batter? This
(08:18):
is an important question in the South. Is it deep
fried or pan fried or baked? Then sides and sauces
and table side seasonings. Does it come with coleslaw, steamed
or boiled vegs like cabbage, green beans, or corn, potato salad,
macaroni salad, Maybe some rye, bread or rye toast with butter,
(08:39):
soft rolls, crispy rolls, grits, hush puppies, mac and cheese,
french fries, potato pancakes with sour cream or apple sauce
or both, hash browns, buttered boiled potatoes, baked potato, your sauces,
your tartar sauce, lemon wedges, hot sauce, smalt, vinegar. I'm
(09:01):
like one of every I'm like one of everything. Please.
I'm like, yes, yeah, I'll take it. Sounds good the
meal itself, okay. So in some areas of the United
States with Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist roots, perhaps especially
in the Midwest and even more specifically in the aforementioned
(09:24):
Great Lakes region, but like also definitely in New Orleans
and other places, Friday fish fries are common on Fridays
in general and during Lent in particular, a Lent being
the season leading up to Easter. Local churches and other
organizations may host Friday fish fries as like casual, family
friendly fundraising events, and in some areas lots of local
(09:47):
restaurants will do a fish fry every week during Lent.
A Friday fish fry in many places wine or beer
and some kind of dessert are also integral parts of
the meal. Yeah, but that is really just scratching the surface.
Just just for example, there are dozens of Friday fish
fries around the Greater Atlanta area.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yes, yes, and we're not near like water, so now
if you're near water gets bigger. Also, I read about
some like specific cocktails I would write in about that. Yeah,
that are traditional at these fish fries. Uh but what
(10:31):
about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, well fried foods are colorically dense with fats from
the frying process. Oh, you know, mind your portion sizes.
Drink water, eat a vegetable, Eat a vegetable that is
not tartar sauce.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Okay, SpongeBob would say, oh, tartar sauce. It's like a
curse word in the sponge Oh cute, cute, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Well, we do have some numbers for you, a couple
because this is like a community event, Like I don't
have like global production numbers of Friday fish fries, but
a few random pieces here and there. Okay. So Barrows Catfish,
which is a seventy plus year old black family owned
(11:21):
restaurant in New Orleans, says that they may cook up
some three thousand pounds of fried fish a week during Lent. Wow. Yeah,
not strictly related, but if you're in the DC area,
the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAH, hosts a
fish fry every June for about a thousand people or so.
(11:43):
This began in nineteen seventy five and was punnily called
Friday's Fish Fry after a man by the name of
Paul Friday, who was one of the originators. Anyway, it's
always focused on presenting tasty iterations of underutilized seafood. It
took a couple of years off for COVID, but it's
supposedly back and open to the public again this year,
(12:05):
perhaps under its new name NOAH Sustainable Seafood Celebration. Woh
so it's nice, which is a tongue twister, but lovely. Yeah, yeah,
Seafood Celebration. Yeah, Sustainable Seafood Celebration. Great, Okay. And then
the McDonald's franchise that came up with the file of
(12:28):
fish Sandwich, which is related. More on that later. In
Montfort Heights, Ohio, sells easily three times the number of
these fried fish sandwiches on good Friday than any other
day of the year. As of twenty twenty two, I
think that was some eight hundred and seventy two sandwiches
(12:49):
on Good Friday versus like two to three hundred on
any other given day. Wow. Yeah, more widely. A quarter
of all McDonald's filet fish say happen during Lent, which
is like forty days out of the year.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So yeah, which was very purposeful on McDonald's part. And
we will talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of history, a lot of varying
history to go over.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh yeah, yes, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So I know we've talked about this before, but because
it's so important to this episode, just go over it again, huh.
The Christian tradition of fasting on Fridays to honor Jesus'
crucifixion on Good Friday goes back to at least the
first century CE. In the early days, the Catholic Church
ruled that Catholics should abstain from eating warm blooded meat
(13:59):
on Fridays as penance. For christ sacrifice, and one of
the first known historical instances of meat being mentioned in
conjunction with lent dates back to sometime between the third
and fourth century, when a religious historian detailed how during
the forty days of Lent, meat and meat products like
cheese and eggs were prohibited. After being elected in five
(14:21):
hundred ninety CE, Pope Gregory the First mentioned this practice,
and then the church made it official canon law in
twelve forty nine CE. However, cold blooded meat like fish
was allowed since after Jesus' resurrection he cooked his apostles fish.
I actually I'm not a Catholic. I don't think that
(14:44):
will surprise anybody. I had a very Catholic friend growing up.
My boyfriend ex boyfriend who I went to Wisconsin with
was very Catholic. So I read a lot about it
for this, but just to say.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
This is what I read. Yeah, yeah, I also have
very little Catholic experience in my life, but so cool. Yeah,
it's where we're reporting on what we have read, y'all
write in. Also, I do understand that there are a
number of other Christian sects that over time have adopted
(15:23):
these rules.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, and one of the reasons. I wanted to mention that, yeah,
I'm like reading Catholic works for this episode is because
I did find other sources that were saying different reasons
why people eat fish on Friday, and to me, it
sounds like maybe it started as one thing and then
(15:45):
it became like fish was cheaper in some areas, it
wasn't as hard to it wasn't as a painful thing
to give up as other meats. Yeah, I'm just saying like,
there's there are other schools of thought, but this is
kind of the main stream thing I read.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Also, also, knowing what I vaguely know from like our
butter episode, I feel positive that there was something to
do with taxes or tariffs or other monetary than just
like it was less expensive reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
But yes, yeah, yes, yeah, With that being said, stuff
separated separate from lent. The history of frying fish is
a very old history, especially in places where fish are
easily accessible. Again, you can see any of our fish
episodes Fish and Chips. Yes, so that was already going on.
(16:41):
But because this history was kind of a dense one,
I split it up differently than I would normally do,
So I wanted to start first with the history of
the Friday fish fright in Wisconsin in particular. Okay, yeah,
so let's talk about how that became such a tradition there.
(17:02):
So most sources indicate that the three main reasons that
this tradition took off in that state are Catholicism, prohibition,
and the availability of freshwater fish. So a lot of
the thousands of European families that settled in Wisconsin and
the eighteen hundreds were Polish and German Catholics. In fact,
(17:22):
the nineteen hundred records show one third of the state's population.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
They were German.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
So when European Catholics came to America, they brought this
practice of not eating warm blooded meat on Fridays with them.
But fish was allowed, so they brought that too. And
just a note also, we've mentioned a few other meats.
We've done a few episodes on other meats that have
been subject to this conversation, including alligator and frog legs.
(17:51):
Can you eat that on Fridays? Yeah, Durny Lents.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Also, of note, the indigenous peoples in this region had
practices of feeding their communities with large amounts of fish
for thousands of years. When the Europeans arrived, they picked
up the practice too because the fish were so plentiful,
so it was inexpensive, and it was fairly easy to
feed a lot of people with the fish, which fit
(18:17):
in with their religious beliefs. So there's that piece, Okay.
The other piece, Prohibition also comes up in a lot
of episodes. So during Prohibition, a lot of taverns in
Wisconsin used the states readily available and cheap freshwater fish
in fry dishes in order to survive financially without alcohol.
(18:41):
Because at the time in the state there were already
a lot of breweries and there may have been some
beer sold under the table of these establishments to go
with the fish fry. So this is when the Friday
fish fry really took root in the state. Locally, caught
perch was a bunch inexpensive, so much so that, according
(19:03):
to some sources, a few establishments offered free fried.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Fish with the purchase of a beele.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, At some point during the nineteen forties and fifties,
local Wisconsin restauranteurs introduced the idea of all you can
eat family style fish fries, and many other restaurants followed
their lead. So it was a pretty popular thing this point.
You can have beer again legally. But with all of
(19:31):
this popularity, this led to over harvesting of the fish
in local waterways. When commercial interest really got underway in
the early twentieth century, overfishing led to significant decline and
near extinction of some fish, like the lake trout and
whitefish that were used popularly in fish fries. To address this,
(19:55):
the Great Lakes Fishery Commission formed in nineteen fifty four
to protect and manage the fish populations from things like
overfishing and invasive species, which had become a problem to
at that point and are still a problem. We'll talk
about that later. Sometime during the nineteen sixties, the rules
for Catholics around eating meat on Fridays changed, instead limited
(20:16):
to Fridays during light so instead of like a year
round thing, just during Lent. But by then the idea
of going out for fish on Fridays was already enshrined
in the minds of Wisconsin. Its like it was if
thing they looked forward to, they actually doing it, so
they continue doing it. So the tradition is still alive
and well, but climate change is having an impact on it.
(20:40):
As Wisconsin's lakes warm, more invasive species take hold, and
the populations of fish like perch, whitefish, and lake trout
commonly used in these fish fries are declining.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, recently, some locals have been trying to help lessen
climate change by recycling Friday fry oil into biodiesel. A
public radio station out of Missouri, KBIA ran a story
in twenty sixteen about a few people and organizations in
Nebraska gathering thousands of gallons of restaurant and church fish
(21:12):
fry oil or recycling. Pretty cool, But of course they
are not the only folks working on it. There are
all kinds of research and programs bent towards improving conditions
for native fish. But that's other episodes that is.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And also, I know I said it earlier, I'll say
it again. Other states in this region do this too,
and I've read really fun differences between like what Pennsylvania
has as their side this state.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So yeah, just to say, the Great Lakes region in
general is pretty big on this concept from what I
can tell, But Wisconsin frequently gets called out specifically. Yes,
they got a lot of tradition by or lauded specifically,
I should say, not like that all out you Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But I wanted to reemphasize that because now we're moving
to a different region. So let us talk about fish
fry traditions in the South. So just like in Wisconsin
and other northern states that do this, Southern fish fries
have roots with the indigenous people of the region, who
would fry up a bunch of fish for their community.
(22:25):
For enslaved peoples, forcibly moved to the southern US, fish
was one of the few things that they could catch
themselves without retribution, especially in the Mississippi Delta where catfish
were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But in Georgia it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Was Tilapia, and other states like Tennessee or Alabama it
may have been Swi or Whiting. According to Tasting Table,
life for the enslaved generally slowed down on Saturday evenings,
allowing time to go fishing and to share the bounty
amongst enslaved communities in Saturday fish fries. But after the
(23:02):
Great Emancipation and the Great Migration, these traditions spread throughout
the country and eventually these Saturday fish fries moved to Fridays.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. I suspect that a as the industrial work week
became a thing, and b as As the migration occurred,
these disparate but similar traditions dovetailed, especially in southern areas
like New Orleans with Catholic populations.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Right, and many Black Americans opened restaurants based on fish fry.
I found a lot of restaurants in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Whe I was like, yep, yep, yep, fish and grits, y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So modernly, these fish fries are still popular in the South,
and in particular in black communities, and in particular in
the summer and fall, from what I read, and they
are communal events. They are these things that you come
out and you have these hangouts, meetups, ketchups with people,
(24:08):
and so I love that that is part of it,
that this is another example of something that is more
than just a food, Like the fish fry is more
than just a.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Food, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it's a community. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But that being said, again we're focusing on those two regions. Listeners,
please let us know if you've been to these things,
if you've done them, if you have different things in
your region. Oh yeah, But that being said, we did
want to talk about McDonald's a second, because I just
(24:45):
remembered we'd mentioned this in a past episode, and I
had to know more. So, yes, the file of Fish.
So when the company noticed a drop of orders, specifically
a franchisey noticed a drop of orders for their burgers
on Fridays related to religious reasons, they wanted to introduce
(25:06):
another menu option to cover that loss. Here we go
the Fley of Fish. But okay, a little more context.
This was the brainchild of a McDonald's franchise owner, Lou
Groen in nineteen sixty two around Cincinnati, Ohio. He got
the idea when he realized that Catholics of standing from
meat on Fridays was hurting his bottom line because his
(25:29):
location was located in a heavily Catholic neighborhood and a
nearby restaurant offering fish options was knocking them out of
the park during this time. So originally McDonald's founder Ray
Kroc hated the idea, believing that fish would stink up
(25:49):
their restaurants. And here is a quote from his book
about it. Hell no, I don't care if the Pope
himself comes to Cincinnati. He can eat hamburgers like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
We are not going to.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Stink up our restaurants with any of your damned fish.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The Pope can eat hamburgers like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right, coming in hot every time.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Really, he really did, he really did. But he eventually
did relent when the File of Fish won in a
sandwich contest against crocs idea the Hula Burger, which was
like a grilled pineapple and cheese sandwich.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And it won easily. Yeah, the the File of Fish
outsold the Hula Burger three hundred and fifty two six.
That's a substantial loss. That is yep.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You know, as the numbers keep coming in and you're like,
at first you have hope.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Then as it goes on you're like, oh, miscalculation.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, well yes, the Flag of Fish one. And when
it went nationwide in nineteen sixty five, it was the
first non hamburger sandwich added to McDonald's menu. I read
somewhere it was like the first. It was confusing to
me because I was like, well, there's French fries.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
But anyway, it was a big deal. Yeah. I think
it might have been like the first new addition to
the menu in basically ever and basically ever. Yeah. And then,
because our culture is a snake eating its own tail,
lots of places that do, like local places that are
(27:50):
not McDonald's that do Friday fish fries now include options
to get your fish as a sandwich with cheese and
tartar sauce. So oh wow, you gotta love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I feel like when I did it in Wisconsin, I
just ate. I just ate the fish and the fries,
and it was glorious. But I'd like a sandwich too,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh yeah, sure, yeah, fred fish sandwich delicious so good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Gosh, Well, listeners, we really would love to hear from
you about this. Mm hmmm if you have experience with it,
regional differences.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh yeah, what are your favorite side dishes, what your
favorite seasonings are? I need to know all about.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
It, yes, please, But I think that's what we have
to say about the Friday fish fry for now.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I think it is. Yeah. We do already have some
listener mail for you, though, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this sh is yah yah.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Well, Matt wrote, this is my first time ever writing
into a podcast. I have been listening to you since
the beginning of the food stuff days and enjoy all
of your episodes. They are informative and the friendship you
two share makes them so much more fun. With every
(29:41):
nerdy dangit, I am many weeks behind at this point,
but I have been binging to catch up. I am
writing in after finishing the replay of the Saracha episode
and listening to the drama that has unfolded. I personally
have never actually had the hoi funk version, as I
am not typically a hot sauce fan. However, a few
(30:03):
years ago I received a sample bottle of Yellow Bird
organic siracha through a friend and became obsessed, so much
so that I would order two twenty ounce bottles at
a time. I have also gifted many a bottle to
friends and family to spread my love for it, many
of which have purchased additional bottles after their gift ran out.
(30:24):
I know you love an opinion. So the interesting thing
is I prefer the organic to the non organic, and
I am not normally a buy everything organic person. If anything,
I purposely avoid the higher prices on organic. However, I
did once get a bottle of the non organic yellow
Bird siracha as the organic was not available at my
(30:46):
local store, and it's just not the same. It is
clearly a different recipe. I do not know if they
cannot source everything organic, so they changed the recipe. But
the non organic one is watery and the flavor is
just slightly off. Don't get me wrong. I finished the bottle.
It was still great, just not as amazing as the
organic one. One of my favorite snacks is still some
(31:09):
crackers and cheese with just a doll up of Yellow
Bird organic Suracha.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Delicious.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I hope that this was not too long and rambling
and you got some sort of joy reading it. Either way.
Thank you for the podcast. I learned something new every
time I listen.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Oh you, Yeah, we welcome, Welcome to writing into podcasts,
Welcome to our box. Thank you. Oh my gosh. We
do love an opinion, and this is a great one.
Hot sauce right, so especially hot. I don't think I've
had that brand, but I'm going to look for it.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I don't think I've had that one either. Oh
my gosh, I just love hot Sauce so much. I
need to look to this. I've been going through, like
I know, I go through like waves of this and
listeners have heard me go through it. But I'm going
through a phase where I'm adding hot sauce to everything again,
even things that should probably be better without it, just.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For the feeling, just to feel something, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Just to feel something in my gold head heart. I
just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But I do.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I have a ton, but I'm always looking for more.
So thank you. Well.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I mean, the thing is is that different hot sauces
go so well with different things. I mean, mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I made my gumbo for Marti Grass recently and I
really debated and and gumbo fishonados can yell at me,
but I really debated on what hot sauce I wanted
to put in it because I wanted a hot sauce
in it, Okay saying what it was because no, no, no,
I probably won't it was from It's pretty normal. But
(32:50):
I yeah, it's true, like you have to plan out
sometimes I want a hot sauce that I know won't
go with the thing I'm eating, and I let my
wan override my senses, my knowledge, and then I usually
regret it.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, I've done that a few times for sure.
And yeah, then I was kind of like, get your
life together, Lauren, Like come on, come on, vogel Bomb, like,
what are you doing choose the appropriate hot sauce for
a dish. Yeah, I'm on.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
A real kick with this point really hot, really hot
hot sauce right now. And of course every time I
add it to something, I'm like, wow, that was too hot,
Like yes, why.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Do you do this over? And you're like, that's the
point of it. It's too hot here we are exactly
it should be relegated to certain.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But anyway, yes, thank you, yes, yeah, the recommendation, I'm
going to look for it as well.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And that is actually one of that issue that you
were having is one of the reasons that I like
saracha because it's a relatively gentle heat. Yes, it goes
with yeah, yeah, it's got a little bit sweetness that
cuts it. Anyway, Eric wrote the papaya episode today reminded
me to check the store when I went tonight. Yep,
they had cut pieces back on the shelf, so I
(34:08):
had to pick them up. Always enjoyed papaya, but always
seemed to forget about it. I also never realized there
were so many varieties With the one statement you made.
I thought of a crossover a mutual episode with the
stuff they don't want you to know. Crue what happens
when you recklessly google fruit? The Escaffie stories interesting. Had
(34:29):
heard the name, but had not really heard any of
the detail around it or what was contributed. I only
worked in a pizza place, so I can't speak to
what happens in larger kitchens, but even there we had
specific things we did for things, how to top, how
to place, how to turn, etc. Definitely ran smoothly, and
when I go back home, I always visit and see
how things still run the same. Why mess with what works?
(34:51):
A shout out to Pet and Mike for that summer
learning experience and in response to the listener mail black
olive fingers for the win. Indeed absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yes, well interestingly one recklessly googling fruit.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
But our friend and co worker Ben Bolin occasionally reaches
out to us and is like, let's do an episode
again soon, And yeah, he just reached out to us,
so hopefully that will happen in one way or another.
We had a great time talking about Ranch, something that
(35:36):
he and I bonded over. Not liking, but yes, so
hopefully that will happen. We do love doing those crossovers.
I also thought this was interesting because I know I've
talked to you about this, Lauren, but regarding kind of
working in kitchens and these sort of militaristic organized layouts
(35:58):
of them. You and I started discussing the TV show
The Bear, and I'm saying, like it stressed me out
and made me never want to eat at a restaurant again.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
No, not, the.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Show is really good, like guys, Yeah, but I recently
talked to a friend about it.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
She had a whole different.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Read on it, and it was so fascinating where she
was like, no, that made me feel comfort that it
was so organized in this way, and it just made
me I've just been thinking about it, pondering this. I mean,
we won't go into what happens in the show, but
I guess it was just interesting to me that she
(36:37):
was sort of like, oh, no, I put it on
as a comfort show, and I was.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Like, what, yeah, coming from coming from industry like my
dad was industry. I have not watched that show yet
because these stressful parts of it sound very, very very
stressful to me. And there's something that I am very
familiar with, having that family history and lots of friends
(37:03):
who are still in the industry to this day. So
I'm just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I understand it's
a good show. I understand that I will end up
liking it, but I just haven't felt like subjecting myself
to like extra stress.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's also funny because I remember when I talked about
it to you, I was like, oh, I don't.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And I swear to god listeners.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I did not know this was a thing when I
said this to Lauren, but I was like, I don't
think it's a comedy. Apparently that's a huge controversy and
like kind of a meme what you talked about when
you came on to stuff. Mo've never told you to
talk about Diehard not being a Christmas movie. I didn't
know that was a thing I.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
But I stepped in it unintentionally. I mean, it's got
funny moments. Would call it a comedy, but.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That I'll step up, maybe argument dramatic comedy. Perhaps genres
are strange, I'll say that a black comedy. Maybe. I
having not watched it again, I can't ye know personally. Yeah, London, Well,
it was.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
A huge debate happening, and I did not know about it,
but I do again, I do think genrezred sometimes difficult
opind on So sure, yeah, anyway, one day we'll revisit perhaps.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But thank you too both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(39:08):
your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Bogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Friday fish fries.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, I'm god you specified because I got a little
under the weeds this one. You told me this was
going to be a difficult one historically, and you were correct.
But that being said, you had a specific reason for
bringing this one.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, Yes, because the season of Lent is almost upon us,
or is upon us as this episode is coming out,
and this is a whole cultural thing. Yeah. And I
have a bunch of friends from Wisconsin and I don't
(00:53):
understand them all the time, but they have assured me
that this is a situation. And furthermore, I have I've
seen advertisements for or like flyers, welcoming committees for this
kind of thing around Atlanta and elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So yes, and we are going to be talking a
lot about Wisconsin in this, but a lot of other
states do it, so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, states to feel slighted.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Listener's right in oh, yeah, but yes I did. My
ex boyfriend was from Wisconsin when I was visiting his
family up there. Once I went to I think it
was June. No, it would have been July, July, okay,
in July, and there was a huge It was like,
(01:41):
I'm hoping listeners can write in about this and explain
what happened to me, because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Know at the time.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I never heard of this. I didn't know what was
going on. But he was like, we're going to this
fish fry. I was like, okay, it sounds great. And
it was alongside like a lake, and it felt more
of a it felt more to me like a festival.
Then it wasn't like I went into one restaurant. It
was like tense and so much fish. It's so many
(02:09):
potatoes of various types. And I got these buttons out
of it and I was like lamenting, like pinned back buttons.
Yes that you came to your shirt. I guess I
was lamenting to to Lauren before this. I wanted to
find them and maybe illuminate, uh, what where I had been,
(02:29):
what I had been doing, But I could not find
them alas so off listeners know what I'm talking about.
But I remember it was a very fun atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
The food was great.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
That like water, yeah, school like it was just a nice,
lovely day outside with fried fish and a lot of sides.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It was great beer that sounds terrific. Yeah, yeah, I
have never been to a Friday fish fry, but I'm
super curious about them now. I mean I have eaten
fried fish. Yes, I have eaten many of these sides
that we're going to talk about. Yes, I mean we
(03:11):
live in Atlanta. They're also true fried fish is kind
of a thing here. But yeah, yeah, I do need
to say that while doing this reading and looking at
a lot of photographs of fish fries, I was eating
(03:33):
my pre planned and earnestly lovely salad lunch today and
I was so viscerally angry m hm. And this will
certainly have an effect on my dinner me too.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I was thinking about this today because one of the
lovely things about this show I have realed is that
it does give me a wonderful opportunity to be like,
I need to get gorgonzola?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
What shall I do? And there's just so many foods that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I have in my life now that I have in
my life because of the show and because of listeners,
and I've like last night, I made too much, too
many sides for my solo Valentine's Day thing that I did,
which was great, But I'm going to make some fry
fish for the side, the extra sides, so I'm very
(04:31):
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But yes, that's also the same.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So this whole thing, the fish fry, not not maybe specifically,
but kind of has come up in a lot of episodes.
A lot of them have been surprising to me at
least the same with lent. Lent comes up a lot
in episodes that we do about food trends, traditions, but
(04:57):
for this episode specifically, we have done fish and chips.
A lot of our fish episodes, perhaps seafood perhaps perhaps
specifically some of our New Orleans episodes if you'd like
to revisit those, maybe that big Fish Industry episode that
we did out of Owahu. Yeah, yeah, And I think
(05:21):
a couple of the sides we've touched on shared totally
some things that are related to that. Some beers. Beer
can be a big part. Yeah, So what a lot.
But I guess that brings us to our question. I
guess it does Friday fish fry?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
What is it? Well, Friday fish fry is a type
of social meal where you get together with family or
friends or community on a Friday for a lunch or
dinner of filets of breaded fried fish, along with usually
some kind of fried potato and some tangy condiments. The
(06:01):
fish is usually something light and white and flaky, fried
till tender and golden brown, and condiments like wholeslaw tartar
sauce and lemon wedges are common, but the exact style
of everything is really adaptable to whatever is locally available
or preferred. It's sometimes a large service like family style
(06:23):
and or buffet sort of situation. It's just a it's
just a big old plate of comfort food, meant to
be eaten in good company, probably inexpensive, possibly with beer.
It's it's a start to your weekend and a reminder
that the good things in life don't have to be
costly or fancy. It's like being encased in the in
(06:48):
the warm golden color of a perfect ale, or or
of the perfect crispy batter. M mm hmmm. Just a
nice thing to look forward to, right right? Oh man,
I get like viscerally angry and my very nice salad
(07:09):
which had done nothing wrong, but it certainly was not
a giant plate of fried fish. Indeed. Oh okay, So yes,
any number of types of fish might be used Great
Lakes locals as here in the United States, this does
(07:30):
focus on the Great Lakes a lot. Things like a perch,
lake trout, smelts, bluegill, whitefish, or walleye can be used.
Ocean fish like cod, haddock or flounder, river fish like catfish,
other seafood like shrimp or oysters. These days there might
be a trade off between fresh local fish versus the
price of a plate, as a number of environmental and
(07:53):
fishing industry factors have led to declining populations of some
of those local traditional fishes. The fry is the breading
from a batter that puffs up like nice and thick
and fluffy. Is it breadcrumbs? Fried, thin and crisp? Is
it corn meal? Does it involve beer or milk or
butter milk? Do you put seasonings in the batter? This
(08:18):
is an important question in the South. Is it deep
fried or pan fried or baked? Then sides and sauces
and table side seasonings. Does it come with coleslaw, steamed
or boiled vegs like cabbage, green beans, or corn, potato salad,
macaroni salad, Maybe some rye, bread or rye toast with butter,
(08:39):
soft rolls, crispy rolls, grits, hush puppies, mac and cheese,
french fries, potato pancakes with sour cream or apple sauce
or both, hash browns, buttered boiled potatoes, baked potato, your sauces,
your tartar sauce, lemon wedges, hot sauce, smalt, vinegar. I'm
(09:01):
like one of every I'm like one of everything. Please.
I'm like, yes, yeah, I'll take it. Sounds good the
meal itself, okay. So in some areas of the United
States with Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist roots, perhaps especially
in the Midwest and even more specifically in the aforementioned
(09:24):
Great Lakes region, but like also definitely in New Orleans
and other places, Friday fish fries are common on Fridays
in general and during Lent in particular, a Lent being
the season leading up to Easter. Local churches and other
organizations may host Friday fish fries as like casual, family
friendly fundraising events, and in some areas lots of local
(09:47):
restaurants will do a fish fry every week during Lent.
A Friday fish fry in many places wine or beer
and some kind of dessert are also integral parts of
the meal. Yeah, but that is really just scratching the surface.
Just just for example, there are dozens of Friday fish
fries around the Greater Atlanta area.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yes, yes, and we're not near like water, so now
if you're near water gets bigger. Also, I read about
some like specific cocktails I would write in about that. Yeah,
that are traditional at these fish fries. Uh but what
(10:31):
about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, well fried foods are colorically dense with fats from
the frying process. Oh, you know, mind your portion sizes.
Drink water, eat a vegetable, Eat a vegetable that is
not tartar sauce.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Okay, SpongeBob would say, oh, tartar sauce. It's like a
curse word in the sponge Oh cute, cute, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Well, we do have some numbers for you, a couple
because this is like a community event, Like I don't
have like global production numbers of Friday fish fries, but
a few random pieces here and there. Okay. So Barrows Catfish,
which is a seventy plus year old black family owned
(11:21):
restaurant in New Orleans, says that they may cook up
some three thousand pounds of fried fish a week during Lent. Wow. Yeah,
not strictly related, but if you're in the DC area,
the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAH, hosts a
fish fry every June for about a thousand people or so.
(11:43):
This began in nineteen seventy five and was punnily called
Friday's Fish Fry after a man by the name of
Paul Friday, who was one of the originators. Anyway, it's
always focused on presenting tasty iterations of underutilized seafood. It
took a couple of years off for COVID, but it's
supposedly back and open to the public again this year,
(12:05):
perhaps under its new name NOAH Sustainable Seafood Celebration. Woh
so it's nice, which is a tongue twister, but lovely. Yeah, yeah,
Seafood Celebration. Yeah, Sustainable Seafood Celebration. Great, Okay. And then
the McDonald's franchise that came up with the file of
(12:28):
fish Sandwich, which is related. More on that later. In
Montfort Heights, Ohio, sells easily three times the number of
these fried fish sandwiches on good Friday than any other
day of the year. As of twenty twenty two, I
think that was some eight hundred and seventy two sandwiches
(12:49):
on Good Friday versus like two to three hundred on
any other given day. Wow. Yeah, more widely. A quarter
of all McDonald's filet fish say happen during Lent, which
is like forty days out of the year.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So yeah, which was very purposeful on McDonald's part. And
we will talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of history, a lot of varying
history to go over.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh yeah, yes, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So I know we've talked about this before, but because
it's so important to this episode, just go over it again, huh.
The Christian tradition of fasting on Fridays to honor Jesus'
crucifixion on Good Friday goes back to at least the
first century CE. In the early days, the Catholic Church
ruled that Catholics should abstain from eating warm blooded meat
(13:59):
on Fridays as penance. For christ sacrifice, and one of
the first known historical instances of meat being mentioned in
conjunction with lent dates back to sometime between the third
and fourth century, when a religious historian detailed how during
the forty days of Lent, meat and meat products like
cheese and eggs were prohibited. After being elected in five
(14:21):
hundred ninety CE, Pope Gregory the First mentioned this practice,
and then the church made it official canon law in
twelve forty nine CE. However, cold blooded meat like fish
was allowed since after Jesus' resurrection he cooked his apostles fish.
I actually I'm not a Catholic. I don't think that
(14:44):
will surprise anybody. I had a very Catholic friend growing up.
My boyfriend ex boyfriend who I went to Wisconsin with
was very Catholic. So I read a lot about it
for this, but just to say.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
This is what I read. Yeah, yeah, I also have
very little Catholic experience in my life, but so cool. Yeah,
it's where we're reporting on what we have read, y'all
write in. Also, I do understand that there are a
number of other Christian sects that over time have adopted
(15:23):
these rules.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, and one of the reasons. I wanted to mention that, yeah,
I'm like reading Catholic works for this episode is because
I did find other sources that were saying different reasons
why people eat fish on Friday, and to me, it
sounds like maybe it started as one thing and then
(15:45):
it became like fish was cheaper in some areas, it
wasn't as hard to it wasn't as a painful thing
to give up as other meats. Yeah, I'm just saying like,
there's there are other schools of thought, but this is
kind of the main stream thing I read.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Also, also, knowing what I vaguely know from like our
butter episode, I feel positive that there was something to
do with taxes or tariffs or other monetary than just
like it was less expensive reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
But yes, yeah, yes, yeah, With that being said, stuff
separated separate from lent. The history of frying fish is
a very old history, especially in places where fish are
easily accessible. Again, you can see any of our fish
episodes Fish and Chips. Yes, so that was already going on.
(16:41):
But because this history was kind of a dense one,
I split it up differently than I would normally do,
So I wanted to start first with the history of
the Friday fish fright in Wisconsin in particular. Okay, yeah,
so let's talk about how that became such a tradition there.
(17:02):
So most sources indicate that the three main reasons that
this tradition took off in that state are Catholicism, prohibition,
and the availability of freshwater fish. So a lot of
the thousands of European families that settled in Wisconsin and
the eighteen hundreds were Polish and German Catholics. In fact,
(17:22):
the nineteen hundred records show one third of the state's population.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
They were German.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
So when European Catholics came to America, they brought this
practice of not eating warm blooded meat on Fridays with them.
But fish was allowed, so they brought that too. And
just a note also, we've mentioned a few other meats.
We've done a few episodes on other meats that have
been subject to this conversation, including alligator and frog legs.
(17:51):
Can you eat that on Fridays? Yeah, Durny Lents.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Also, of note, the indigenous peoples in this region had
practices of feeding their communities with large amounts of fish
for thousands of years. When the Europeans arrived, they picked
up the practice too because the fish were so plentiful,
so it was inexpensive, and it was fairly easy to
feed a lot of people with the fish, which fit
(18:17):
in with their religious beliefs. So there's that piece, Okay.
The other piece, Prohibition also comes up in a lot
of episodes. So during Prohibition, a lot of taverns in
Wisconsin used the states readily available and cheap freshwater fish
in fry dishes in order to survive financially without alcohol.
(18:41):
Because at the time in the state there were already
a lot of breweries and there may have been some
beer sold under the table of these establishments to go
with the fish fry. So this is when the Friday
fish fry really took root in the state. Locally, caught
perch was a bunch inexpensive, so much so that, according
(19:03):
to some sources, a few establishments offered free fried.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Fish with the purchase of a beele.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, At some point during the nineteen forties and fifties,
local Wisconsin restauranteurs introduced the idea of all you can
eat family style fish fries, and many other restaurants followed
their lead. So it was a pretty popular thing this point.
You can have beer again legally. But with all of
(19:31):
this popularity, this led to over harvesting of the fish
in local waterways. When commercial interest really got underway in
the early twentieth century, overfishing led to significant decline and
near extinction of some fish, like the lake trout and
whitefish that were used popularly in fish fries. To address this,
(19:55):
the Great Lakes Fishery Commission formed in nineteen fifty four
to protect and manage the fish populations from things like
overfishing and invasive species, which had become a problem to
at that point and are still a problem. We'll talk
about that later. Sometime during the nineteen sixties, the rules
for Catholics around eating meat on Fridays changed, instead limited
(20:16):
to Fridays during light so instead of like a year
round thing, just during Lent. But by then the idea
of going out for fish on Fridays was already enshrined
in the minds of Wisconsin. Its like it was if
thing they looked forward to, they actually doing it, so
they continue doing it. So the tradition is still alive
and well, but climate change is having an impact on it.
(20:40):
As Wisconsin's lakes warm, more invasive species take hold, and
the populations of fish like perch, whitefish, and lake trout
commonly used in these fish fries are declining.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, recently, some locals have been trying to help lessen
climate change by recycling Friday fry oil into biodiesel. A
public radio station out of Missouri, KBIA ran a story
in twenty sixteen about a few people and organizations in
Nebraska gathering thousands of gallons of restaurant and church fish
(21:12):
fry oil or recycling. Pretty cool, But of course they
are not the only folks working on it. There are
all kinds of research and programs bent towards improving conditions
for native fish. But that's other episodes that is.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And also, I know I said it earlier, I'll say
it again. Other states in this region do this too,
and I've read really fun differences between like what Pennsylvania
has as their side this state.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So yeah, just to say, the Great Lakes region in
general is pretty big on this concept from what I
can tell, But Wisconsin frequently gets called out specifically. Yes,
they got a lot of tradition by or lauded specifically,
I should say, not like that all out you Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But I wanted to reemphasize that because now we're moving
to a different region. So let us talk about fish
fry traditions in the South. So just like in Wisconsin
and other northern states that do this, Southern fish fries
have roots with the indigenous people of the region, who
would fry up a bunch of fish for their community.
(22:25):
For enslaved peoples, forcibly moved to the southern US, fish
was one of the few things that they could catch
themselves without retribution, especially in the Mississippi Delta where catfish
were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But in Georgia it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Was Tilapia, and other states like Tennessee or Alabama it
may have been Swi or Whiting. According to Tasting Table,
life for the enslaved generally slowed down on Saturday evenings,
allowing time to go fishing and to share the bounty
amongst enslaved communities in Saturday fish fries. But after the
(23:02):
Great Emancipation and the Great Migration, these traditions spread throughout
the country and eventually these Saturday fish fries moved to Fridays.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. I suspect that a as the industrial work week
became a thing, and b as As the migration occurred,
these disparate but similar traditions dovetailed, especially in southern areas
like New Orleans with Catholic populations.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Right, and many Black Americans opened restaurants based on fish fry.
I found a lot of restaurants in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Whe I was like, yep, yep, yep, fish and grits, y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So modernly, these fish fries are still popular in the South,
and in particular in black communities, and in particular in
the summer and fall, from what I read, and they
are communal events. They are these things that you come
out and you have these hangouts, meetups, ketchups with people,
(24:08):
and so I love that that is part of it,
that this is another example of something that is more
than just a food, Like the fish fry is more
than just a.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Food, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it's a community. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But that being said, again we're focusing on those two regions. Listeners,
please let us know if you've been to these things,
if you've done them, if you have different things in
your region. Oh yeah, But that being said, we did
want to talk about McDonald's a second, because I just
(24:45):
remembered we'd mentioned this in a past episode, and I
had to know more. So, yes, the file of Fish.
So when the company noticed a drop of orders, specifically
a franchisey noticed a drop of orders for their burgers
on Fridays related to religious reasons, they wanted to introduce
(25:06):
another menu option to cover that loss. Here we go
the Fley of Fish. But okay, a little more context.
This was the brainchild of a McDonald's franchise owner, Lou
Groen in nineteen sixty two around Cincinnati, Ohio. He got
the idea when he realized that Catholics of standing from
meat on Fridays was hurting his bottom line because his
(25:29):
location was located in a heavily Catholic neighborhood and a
nearby restaurant offering fish options was knocking them out of
the park during this time. So originally McDonald's founder Ray
Kroc hated the idea, believing that fish would stink up
(25:49):
their restaurants. And here is a quote from his book
about it. Hell no, I don't care if the Pope
himself comes to Cincinnati. He can eat hamburgers like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
We are not going to.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Stink up our restaurants with any of your damned fish.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The Pope can eat hamburgers like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right, coming in hot every time.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Really, he really did, he really did. But he eventually
did relent when the File of Fish won in a
sandwich contest against crocs idea the Hula Burger, which was
like a grilled pineapple and cheese sandwich.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And it won easily. Yeah, the the File of Fish
outsold the Hula Burger three hundred and fifty two six.
That's a substantial loss. That is yep.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You know, as the numbers keep coming in and you're like,
at first you have hope.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Then as it goes on you're like, oh, miscalculation.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, well yes, the Flag of Fish one. And when
it went nationwide in nineteen sixty five, it was the
first non hamburger sandwich added to McDonald's menu. I read
somewhere it was like the first. It was confusing to
me because I was like, well, there's French fries.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
But anyway, it was a big deal. Yeah. I think
it might have been like the first new addition to
the menu in basically ever and basically ever. Yeah. And then,
because our culture is a snake eating its own tail,
lots of places that do, like local places that are
(27:50):
not McDonald's that do Friday fish fries now include options
to get your fish as a sandwich with cheese and
tartar sauce. So oh wow, you gotta love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I feel like when I did it in Wisconsin, I
just ate. I just ate the fish and the fries,
and it was glorious. But I'd like a sandwich too,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh yeah, sure, yeah, fred fish sandwich delicious so good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Gosh, Well, listeners, we really would love to hear from
you about this. Mm hmmm if you have experience with it,
regional differences.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh yeah, what are your favorite side dishes, what your
favorite seasonings are? I need to know all about.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
It, yes, please, But I think that's what we have
to say about the Friday fish fry for now.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I think it is. Yeah. We do already have some
listener mail for you, though, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this sh is yah yah.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Well, Matt wrote, this is my first time ever writing
into a podcast. I have been listening to you since
the beginning of the food stuff days and enjoy all
of your episodes. They are informative and the friendship you
two share makes them so much more fun. With every
(29:41):
nerdy dangit, I am many weeks behind at this point,
but I have been binging to catch up. I am
writing in after finishing the replay of the Saracha episode
and listening to the drama that has unfolded. I personally
have never actually had the hoi funk version, as I
am not typically a hot sauce fan. However, a few
(30:03):
years ago I received a sample bottle of Yellow Bird
organic siracha through a friend and became obsessed, so much
so that I would order two twenty ounce bottles at
a time. I have also gifted many a bottle to
friends and family to spread my love for it, many
of which have purchased additional bottles after their gift ran out.
(30:24):
I know you love an opinion. So the interesting thing
is I prefer the organic to the non organic, and
I am not normally a buy everything organic person. If anything,
I purposely avoid the higher prices on organic. However, I
did once get a bottle of the non organic yellow
Bird siracha as the organic was not available at my
(30:46):
local store, and it's just not the same. It is
clearly a different recipe. I do not know if they
cannot source everything organic, so they changed the recipe. But
the non organic one is watery and the flavor is
just slightly off. Don't get me wrong. I finished the bottle.
It was still great, just not as amazing as the
organic one. One of my favorite snacks is still some
(31:09):
crackers and cheese with just a doll up of Yellow
Bird organic Suracha.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Delicious.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I hope that this was not too long and rambling
and you got some sort of joy reading it. Either way.
Thank you for the podcast. I learned something new every
time I listen.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Oh you, Yeah, we welcome, Welcome to writing into podcasts,
Welcome to our box. Thank you. Oh my gosh. We
do love an opinion, and this is a great one.
Hot sauce right, so especially hot. I don't think I've
had that brand, but I'm going to look for it.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I don't think I've had that one either. Oh
my gosh, I just love hot Sauce so much. I
need to look to this. I've been going through, like
I know, I go through like waves of this and
listeners have heard me go through it. But I'm going
through a phase where I'm adding hot sauce to everything again,
even things that should probably be better without it, just.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For the feeling, just to feel something, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Just to feel something in my gold head heart. I
just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But I do.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I have a ton, but I'm always looking for more.
So thank you. Well.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I mean, the thing is is that different hot sauces
go so well with different things. I mean, mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I made my gumbo for Marti Grass recently and I
really debated and and gumbo fishonados can yell at me,
but I really debated on what hot sauce I wanted
to put in it because I wanted a hot sauce
in it, Okay saying what it was because no, no, no,
I probably won't it was from It's pretty normal. But
(32:50):
I yeah, it's true, like you have to plan out
sometimes I want a hot sauce that I know won't
go with the thing I'm eating, and I let my
wan override my senses, my knowledge, and then I usually
regret it.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, I've done that a few times for sure.
And yeah, then I was kind of like, get your
life together, Lauren, Like come on, come on, vogel Bomb, like,
what are you doing choose the appropriate hot sauce for
a dish. Yeah, I'm on.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
A real kick with this point really hot, really hot
hot sauce right now. And of course every time I
add it to something, I'm like, wow, that was too hot,
Like yes, why.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Do you do this over? And you're like, that's the
point of it. It's too hot here we are exactly
it should be relegated to certain.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But anyway, yes, thank you, yes, yeah, the recommendation, I'm
going to look for it as well.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And that is actually one of that issue that you
were having is one of the reasons that I like
saracha because it's a relatively gentle heat. Yes, it goes
with yeah, yeah, it's got a little bit sweetness that
cuts it. Anyway, Eric wrote the papaya episode today reminded
me to check the store when I went tonight. Yep,
they had cut pieces back on the shelf, so I
(34:08):
had to pick them up. Always enjoyed papaya, but always
seemed to forget about it. I also never realized there
were so many varieties With the one statement you made.
I thought of a crossover a mutual episode with the
stuff they don't want you to know. Crue what happens
when you recklessly google fruit? The Escaffie stories interesting. Had
(34:29):
heard the name, but had not really heard any of
the detail around it or what was contributed. I only
worked in a pizza place, so I can't speak to
what happens in larger kitchens, but even there we had
specific things we did for things, how to top, how
to place, how to turn, etc. Definitely ran smoothly, and
when I go back home, I always visit and see
how things still run the same. Why mess with what works?
(34:51):
A shout out to Pet and Mike for that summer
learning experience and in response to the listener mail black
olive fingers for the win. Indeed absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yes, well interestingly one recklessly googling fruit.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
But our friend and co worker Ben Bolin occasionally reaches
out to us and is like, let's do an episode
again soon, And yeah, he just reached out to us,
so hopefully that will happen in one way or another.
We had a great time talking about Ranch, something that
(35:36):
he and I bonded over. Not liking, but yes, so
hopefully that will happen. We do love doing those crossovers.
I also thought this was interesting because I know I've
talked to you about this, Lauren, but regarding kind of
working in kitchens and these sort of militaristic organized layouts
(35:58):
of them. You and I started discussing the TV show
The Bear, and I'm saying, like it stressed me out
and made me never want to eat at a restaurant again.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
No, not, the.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Show is really good, like guys, Yeah, but I recently
talked to a friend about it.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
She had a whole different.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Read on it, and it was so fascinating where she
was like, no, that made me feel comfort that it
was so organized in this way, and it just made
me I've just been thinking about it, pondering this. I mean,
we won't go into what happens in the show, but
I guess it was just interesting to me that she
(36:37):
was sort of like, oh, no, I put it on
as a comfort show, and I was.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Like, what, yeah, coming from coming from industry like my
dad was industry. I have not watched that show yet
because these stressful parts of it sound very, very very
stressful to me. And there's something that I am very
familiar with, having that family history and lots of friends
(37:03):
who are still in the industry to this day. So
I'm just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I understand it's
a good show. I understand that I will end up
liking it, but I just haven't felt like subjecting myself
to like extra stress.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's also funny because I remember when I talked about
it to you, I was like, oh, I don't.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And I swear to god listeners.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I did not know this was a thing when I
said this to Lauren, but I was like, I don't
think it's a comedy. Apparently that's a huge controversy and
like kind of a meme what you talked about when
you came on to stuff. Mo've never told you to
talk about Diehard not being a Christmas movie. I didn't
know that was a thing I.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
But I stepped in it unintentionally. I mean, it's got
funny moments. Would call it a comedy, but.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That I'll step up, maybe argument dramatic comedy. Perhaps genres
are strange, I'll say that a black comedy. Maybe. I
having not watched it again, I can't ye know personally. Yeah, London, Well,
it was.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
A huge debate happening, and I did not know about it,
but I do again, I do think genrezred sometimes difficult
opind on So sure, yeah, anyway, one day we'll revisit perhaps.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But thank you too both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(39:08):
your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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