June 7, 2024 • 33 mins
These small cephalopods are a huge part of California’s fishing industry. Anney and Lauren dip into the biology and history of California market squid.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saver Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reason and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Unline Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about California market squid.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, we always loved doing our sea creatures.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh yeah, they're so weird and great and tasty, a
little scary, as we were just discussing in a lovely way, sure,
in a fun way.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, generally. Was there any particular reason this was on
your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The last time that I was looking for a seafood
related topic, I was kind of browsing through Monterey Bay
Aquariums recommendations for seafood for best choice seafood, and this
was high on the list. And I don't think we've
ever done an episode about squid. We have done squid ink,
(00:58):
which is usually from Cuddle, but but yeah, so I
was like, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
And I have to say not that this was the
same type of squid. And we'll talk about this more later.
But we did recently get to attend a wedding super
producer Dylan. Yeah, congratulations Dylan and Jeanine. Yes, it was.
It was a beautiful wedding. It was great, It was
so lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We got to go do booth karaoke afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Perfect, Yes, we sang our classic Savor songs. It was great.
But there was Calamari there and that was the first
time I'd had it in a while, and I was
reminded of.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Like, oh yeah, so good, a good deep fried Calamari delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, which, speaking of I could have sworn we had
done an episode on Calamari. We have not, Nope, but
we did talk about it in our squidd Ink episode.
We're gonna touch on it briefly in this episode, but
there's more detail in that one, so if you want
(02:07):
to check that out. But I could have sworn Lauren
up and down. I was like, uh jeez, it's getting
messier and messier. I do. I do love a good
I do love a good squid in a variety of forms.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Me too, Oh yeah, I'm pretty picky about it being cooked. Well, like,
if it's overcooked, I want nothing to do with it.
It's cooked perfectly. I want more and more of it.
So that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, me too, know the cravings. Oh yeah, yes,
well you can see our past episodes that we have
done on various sea creatures. Yes, the squid inc Episode.
Even though as Lauren said, not typically squid ink cuttlefish ink.
(03:03):
But there's a lot of stuff about squid in there.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, well, I guess that burns us to our question. Sure,
California market squid, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, California market squid are a type of smallish cephalopod
that are caught wild off the west coast of North
America and eaten however you like to eat seafood. The
two sort of like cuts of meat that you get
off of them are their thin walled tube shaped body,
and then their arms and tentacles ten in total, which
(03:40):
are even thinner. The tube might be cut into rings
or left hole, and often in that case will be
like stuffed with some kind of maybe rice pull off
sort of situation. Both cuts are often breaded and deep fried,
served hot with dipping sauce, but you can also use
them in soups or stews, grill or pants. Hear them,
maybe toss them with noodles or rice salad, chop them
(04:01):
into a nice light savice, or even eat them raw
or like very slightly blanched as in sushi type preparations.
When they are raw, they're slightly translucent ivory to maybe
a reddish purple in color with a bit of an
apalescent sheen, and they stay about the same color but
go opaque and lose the sheine when they're cooked. And
again you really don't want to overcook them because they
(04:23):
will go rubbery. But when they're done right, they're like springy,
tender in texture with this mild sweet, like almost nutty flavor,
almost like a sort of springy fresh cheese, like a
like a mozzarella or something. They're a little bit of
a blank palette to build other flavors and textures on,
but also just really nice onto themselves. They're like they
(04:47):
are weird, squiggly little sea monsters that are actually really
delicate and soft. Yeah, I'm self identifying with this now, I.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Just need someone to understand to know, okay. California market
squid yes are traditionally most abundant off the coast of
northern Mexico to central California, like Baja through Monterey Bay.
They only grow up to about a foot long that's
(05:24):
around thirty centimeters including their tentacles, and live less than
a year, usually like six to nine months. This is
a species that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Grows to reproductive capacity. Does that thing and then dies
within a year, so basically the entire population replaces itself
every year, and as long as you're not catching too
many of them when they're juvenile, the population can stand
up to pretty heavy fishing because of that. This also
makes them an important part of the food chain. They
(05:53):
both consume like a lot of smaller ocean gritters and
our prey for a lot of larger ones. Adult market
squid will have a long, tubular body with a two
kind of triangular fins at the top and a small
head at the bottom consisting of two eyes, one on
each side of the head and a mouth in the
bottom center, with a beak to help them like rend
(06:14):
or crack open prey that's too large to eat whole. Yes,
squid have beaks. This is part of where they're terrifying.
I love them, okay, And they will grow from kind
of like baby carrot to regular carrot sized. Baby carrot
is a descriptor that I read somewhere during my journey
over the past day, and I can't get that out
of my head.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I love it, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They have eight short arms and two longer tentacles coming
down off of their head. The arms are for movement
like swimming and pushing off surfaces. The tentacles are used
for grasping prey or mates. They have valves near the
head that they use to push water and propel themselves,
and they're in color. They're this like really pretty modeled
(06:57):
white and reddish purple with some translucent and iridescence and
will change color based on environmental factors, often to confuse predators,
possibly depending on like mood and or to communicate with
each other. They do produce ink and will release a
cloud of it to again confuse predators. When they spawn,
(07:17):
the male squid deposit once called spermatophores, which are basically
like protected sperm sacks into the female squid which have
been busy producing eggs, and then when they release the
eggs the eggs get fertilized. The eggs will come in
these protective cases. A squid might lay about twenty cases
that each contain some two hundred eggs, so yes, that's
(07:38):
like four thousand eggs per squid. A lot of them
do not live long enough to reproduce themselves, so you
kind of have to have a lot in order to
make it all work.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The egg cases, by the way, are really like ghostly pretty.
They're laid in these clusters on the seafloor like little
white sea and enemies. During bonding season, it is not
unusual for over one hundred square meters of seafloor to
just be covered with their eggsacks. That's like three hundred
(08:10):
square feet. That's a large amount of squid egg sacks.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
You learning very hard to not freak out, But this
just sounds so like alien or something.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, yep, yet not no, Yeah. About a month or
so later, those eggs will hatch into sort of like
chibi versions of an adult, like basically the same body structure,
just smaller and kind of cuter and rounder. And as
they grow, they'll go from eating like like plankton and
(08:49):
krill to small crustaceans and fish and other squid. Yes,
they are cannibals, but they're not like particularly aggressive. They'll
also school together in large groups other than humans and themselves.
They're preyed upon by larger fish, seabirds, and marine mammals,
and they are often used as bait by recreational fissures
(09:09):
around California. There is ongoing research about like whether a
single squid can spawn multiple times before they die, and
how long they will naturally live after spawning before death.
It always kind of blows my mind a little when
we don't have answers to what seems like a basic
(09:30):
question like this for like common economically important marine creatures.
And then I have to remind myself that like oceans
are hard, like we cannot breathe underwater, and it is
dark down there.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So yeah, yeah, there's a couple of road blocks. So yeah, yeah,
so that's fair, No no judgment science, I know that
you're working on it. Although they can and.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Do dive to around like twenty six hundred feet that's
about eight hund undred meters, they hang out near the
surface a lot and can also be drawn to the
surface at night by using lights pointed at the water,
which apparently simulate moonlight, which prey species would be drawn to.
I think I'm not sure anyway. Because of this, and
because they do school with each other, you can kind
(10:17):
of just go scoop a lot of them from right
near the surface without really interfering with many other animals
or the seabed, which is great environmentally speaking. They do
come closer to shore when they spawn also, so like
you don't even have to travel very far out to
do this. There are permit systems in place and like
(10:37):
weekend closures to allow time for spawning to occur without
human interruption. But because of the kind of range of
latitudes where they live and they're slightly offset life cycles,
because of the temperatures through those latitudes, they're able to
be harvested year round up and down the coast. They're
(10:58):
known for being a little bit tricky and or gross
to clean and butcher at home. I have not tried
to do this myself, but I have read that once.
Like you have the knack for it, it's easy. They
are often sold pre cleaned though, and yeah, they can
be served hot or chilled, raw to well cooked in
any number of ways. That kind of tender chewy, almost
(11:23):
buttery texture lends itself to like pasta and rice dishes
that have a sort of al dente chew themselves. I
really do compare them to like a semi firm cheese,
Like they're just mild and have a tender bite and
that sweetness that some seafood has really nice.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It is really nice. Oh what about the nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Market squid are pretty good for you. Lots of protein,
a good smattering of micronutrients. They are really low in fat,
so it's good to pair them with a bit of
fat when you're with them. It's also tasty and eat
a vegetable always. Well, we do have some numbers for
you on this one. We do okay. At least thirty
(12:12):
eight species other than humans depend on market squid as
a food source. Also, it's difficult to measure sea above
read the ocean is hard, but it's thought that market
squid have the largest biomass of any economically important species
off the coast of California.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And speaking of this species is incredibly important to California.
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife estimated that the
California market squid can rake up to seventy million dollars
a year. The twenty twenty two catch brought in eighty
four million dollars.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah. Yeah, that was about one hundred and forty seven
million pounds of these squid, which is actually only about
sixty percent, like sixty two percent of the total that's
legally allowed to be caught in California in a year.
So the industry is well maintained sustainably speaking, though natural
fluctuations in the population kind of make it difficult to
(13:14):
predict total landings year to year. Fishers can catch tons
at a time with big purse style nets, and market
squid account for about a quarter of all commercial fishery
in California by weight and about twelve percent of revenue
(13:35):
for fishers. So a big deal, A big deal for
small buddies, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
A big deal for small buddies. Yes, and they have
quite the history behind them. They do, they do.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It's a relatively recent one and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, okay. So, yes,
cephalopods have been around for hundreds of millions of years.
We continually have to remind ourselves this is a food show.
But they have been along. They've been around for a
long time, and people with access to them have been
(14:27):
eating them since ancient times, especially in the Mediterranean and Asia. Now,
when it comes to the California market squid and them
as a food source. While people had surely been eating
them on a small scale before, it wasn't until the
nineteenth century with the wave of Chinese immigrants settling in
(14:48):
California that it started to become something a little bit
bigger than that. In the late eighteen hundreds, the fishing
industry in Monterey Bay and the nearby area really start
to grow, and competition grew between fishers as well. So
as a result, many Chinese migrants that had settled in
(15:08):
the area were forced out of this more profitable market,
especially yeah when it was like the big the things
that most Americans were into at the time. So these
Chinese fishermen pivoted and started fishing for squid, which was
a popular item in Asia but not yet popular in
(15:30):
the United States, so there was less competition for it.
In fact, squid was often tossed back when it was
caught in the US at the time. To further avoid competition,
some of these fishers went out at night and use
the light from their torches to lure the squid to
(15:51):
the surface. And I will admit the first time I
read this, I thought it was the British use of
the word Georges in the flashlight, and then I had
to be like, nope, Nope.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
In the eighteen hundreds, that would have been literal fire torches.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, that would have been not correct. Yeah, So, these
Chinese immigrants established the first fishery for market squid in
eighteen sixty three in Monterey Bay, California. At the time,
a lot of the squid was dried and shipped to China,
though there was local consumption as well, especially within these
(16:28):
immigrant communities that had a history of eating squid. Okay,
that's kind that was kind of the state of things.
But beginning in the nineteen fifties, California market squid fisheries
started opening further south in the state, and this coincided
with the decline of the Pacific sardine population. Fishers who
(16:50):
were looking for replacement often turned to market squid. For
the next few decades, the industry still remained small, though,
and it wasn't until demand increased in the eighties that
that changed, and pretty significantly, like significantly, during the nineteen
(17:11):
eighties and nineteen nineties, the squid fishing market in California
substantially expanded. It was one of the most lucrative and
important fishing markets of the state.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, like the most lucrative until about the mid nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, And as I said, a part of this growth
was due to things like the collapse of other fisheries
in the state, like sardines and anchovies, and an increasing
consumer demand for calamarin. Okay, so very brief calamaria side.
Beginning in the seventies, the fishing industry in the US
(17:50):
was growing increasingly alarmed in the face of depleted stocks
of popular fish like cod. Meanwhile, fishers of squid had
been saying, Hey, we have this population of squid, but
there just isn't demand in America. Politicians, environmentalists, producers, and
academics all came together to convince Americans they should be
(18:12):
eating squid. It was a whole campaign. I love this,
I know, like it just has this like a symbol vibe.
So the primary complaint consumers had was about the texture.
So someone got the idea of slicing it, breading it,
(18:33):
and frying it similar to onion rings. People also started
referring to it as calamari instead of squid to sort
of rebrand it and make it sound more quote fixotic.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah. This was also a time when Italian cuisine and
I guess Mediterranean cuisine more widely was very popular around
the United States.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yes, yes, and calamaris for exclaim it. Another suggestion was
to serve it in smaller portions as an appetizer, so
people could dip their toes in so they could try it,
and then once they liked it, get more. And it worked,
and in less than a decade, customer demand in the
(19:19):
United States had gone up dramatically. It was such a
striking and meteoric increase that in twenty fourteen, the New
York Times created what they called the Fried Calamari Index
to track the history and emergence of trendy figs, which
again you can see our squitting episode for more details.
(19:39):
It's really fascinating and kind of funny. Yeah, but yeah, Okay,
So global volume of squid in general went up in
the nineties in Asian and European markets, though a devastating
El Nino and poorer working conditions in Asia really did
some damage to the industry and in particular really expanded
(20:01):
in terms of their squid industry, but also in processing
of squid, which, as you said, Lauren, that could be
kind of a pain, which is still a conversation when
it comes to California market squid. And this paved the
way for China to become a dominant market force when
it comes to squid. Starting in the eighties, the US
(20:24):
began implementing measures to prevent over harvesting of squid, something
that was a bit tricky since there were no concrete
estimates about their population side. There still aren't. There still aren't.
People are working on it, but there still are not.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Again, as you said, oceans are tricky and squid like
to move about. They do. Can't stop them, yes, but
these implementations limited the catch size and instituted weekend closures
so the squid could on and rebuild their population. Fishermen
landed a little over one hundred and five thousand tons
(21:08):
of California market squid in the nineteen ninety nine to
two thousand season.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It just really ballooned. It really got big. Oh yeah,
And yes, there have been numerous attempts over the years
to nail down a number for the California market squid
stock and to scientifically explain why it seems to fluctuate
so much. Early observations indicated that the temperature from the
(21:37):
previous season was a significant factor in the current season's numbers.
With the invention implementation of new technologies, are understanding of
the squid and their population has grown. But yeah, we're
still a little still figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, we know that temperature has to do with how
quickly and how robustly the eggs will have, but we're
still kind of like, oh.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, we're speaking of A twenty twenty study found that
market squid population may be migrating farther north due to
climate change.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's not understood yet whether this is a sort
of temporary move which has happened before, or a more
permanent migration, like during particularly warm weather. They've been known
in the past to migrate as far north as Alaska.
But like, just for example, fissures off the coast of
Oregon were selling zero dollars worth of market squid as
(22:35):
of twenty fifteen, and just five years later in twenty twenty,
they had started selling like a pretty predictable like six
million dollars worth. So, yeah, the squid are so numerous
where they exist that this is kind of concerning because
like they might start to have an impact on the
native populations of animals that they prey on. And this
(22:57):
is compounded because they have been observed to grow older
and larger further north and thus expand their prey to
larger animals than usual.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Right, And then in June twenty twenty three, Monterey Bay
Aquarium Seafood Watch released an updated statement on California market squid,
labeling it a best choice in terms of sustainability. So
this was an update. There had been previous statements they'd
(23:29):
put up that had said kind of the same thing. However,
a recent investigation into the squid industry in China, including
squid processing plants that process market squid that may be
shipped back to the US, found numerous concerns and issues
around sustainability, workers' rights, and forced labor. And a part
(23:52):
of this problem is something we've talked about before, is very,
very difficult to trace exactactly where this squid in this
case is coming from and where it has been yeah
along the way.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, this is a part of a much larger problem,
a heck and huge problem really in the in the
fishing industry, where yeah, there is a lot of fish fraud,
there are a lot of human rights violations there, and
it is difficult to trace where your seafood is going
(24:30):
and where it's coming from. And right as I was
suggesting this episode, I was putting kind of on the
back Burner an idea to do like fraud in the
fishing industry is an episode topic later on.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's a big problem. And this investigation in
particular was mentioning that it just takes so long to
investigate and it's so complicated, Yeah, to investigate. And one
of the articles I found from NPR, which I believe
(25:06):
we mentioned in the squidding episode, but it was about
how there's all of this California market squid but it
gets sent off to be processed in China, then it
comes back. Yeah, it comes back. So it's sort of
a strange, and there are reasons for that. It's cheaper
(25:27):
to do it that.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Way better, No cheaper, yes, as with many large industrial things,
that is the case. Yeah, yes, but they also because
some of the producers.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Of California market squid were like, we can do it,
but people won't pay for it. Yeah. Yeah, So something
to keep in mind is always when you're making your decisions.
But yeah, it's hard, it's complicated, it is, it really is. Yeah,
(26:01):
you can you can also see.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
If you really want to know more in the meanwhile
and you really want to know more from one of
our episodes, we do touch on issues like this in
our a Wahoo episode on the Big Fish Industry.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
So yes, yeah, we do. But we would love to
hear from any listeners. Oh yeah, oh my goodness, if
you're in the industry, if you have recipes, memories.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
If you just really like squid and you want to
talk to us about squid. We want to hear squid
facts all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Squid facts, any squid horror stories or not horror stories.
But we were discussing sometimes they've appeared in horror yeah,
before we started talking. We love it all. We love
it all. But that is what we have to say
about the California market squid for now it is.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
We do already have some non squid related listener mail
for you, though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you.
I went back with yeah, yeah, of course. Of course
(27:37):
that's how squid sound in the game. So that's what
I'm gonna go with, perfect, perfect Yeah, science, yep, yes,
that's what it is. Jen wrote your episode on Ramps
reminded me that it's almost Biddlehead season. I've never forged
for these, but I'm always excited when they pop up
(28:00):
in local stores for a brief window in early spring
here in Halifax. I believe they are most commonly found
in neighboring New Brunswick. Just make sure you boil them
well and discard the water, as I've been told under
cooking them can lead to some intestinal distress. Future episode
topic perhaps, Oh yeah, definitely, yes, yes, and then Gen
(28:24):
followed up and had gotten some since a beautiful picture.
They look lovely. I am incredibly jealous once again.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, yeah, they're so pretty. I've never had them, but
I've seen so many pictures because they are so pretty.
They look well, I mean, we were just talking about squid,
but they look like a little weird floral tentacle. And yeah,
I have no idea what they taste like.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Oh I don't either, Jen right in they like ramps.
They feel to me like it would be something that
tastes like spring. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't
know either.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
More to learn in the future. Yes, Aaron wrote, I've
been listening to you too since pretty much your food
stuff days, and I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity
to write in that whole time. Well, I finally have one.
My partner and I were recently at an Argentinian restaurant
called Porsana in Minneapolis, which has quickly become my partner's
(29:28):
favorite restaurant in the Twin Cities. Their empanadas are excellent,
and they consistently have the best steak either of us
has ever eaten. The reason I'm writing, however, is for
the drinks. I don't drink much, but I was perusing
their cocktail menu when I came across one that featured pisco.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
The name rang a.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Bell, and after a quick Google search, I realized that
I had learned about it from Saber. The cocktail, called
Gigi had pisco, maqui, kamucamu, Indian BlackBerry, boldo leaf, pasubillo, esperadina.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I still don't know what a lot of those ingredients are.
But the drink was delicious. The pisco had a very
pleasant wine like flavor, and the drink itself tasted a
lot like a sangria, but was much lighter and less
alcohol forward. I liked it so much that a bottle
of pisco will be coming home with me as soon
as I'm able to find one. The Twin Cities area
has an incredible local restaurant scene while still being a
(30:22):
slightly smaller metro area, and it's an awesome place to
go if you're looking for that kind of thing. Also,
I wanted to highlight one other restaurant in the area,
a Womni, which is a Native American restaurant founded by
the sous chef. All of their ingredients are native to
North America and the menu changes seasonally. I haven't been
able to get a reservation yet, but hope too soon.
Thanks for introducing me to so many new foods and drinks,
(30:44):
most of which I likely would not try otherwise. Oh yeah, oh,
thank you, You're welcome and thank you. Yes, I hope
I didn't butcher the pronunciation of all of those ingredients.
I don't know what most of them are either.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I don't know. But even without knowing that, drake sounds
really goodless sounds lovely. Yeah. Oh heck right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I was thinking about this when I when I first
kind of read, like like glanced through this email. And
I try really hard to not have my phone out
when I'm out at a restaurant, you know, like I'm there, Yeah,
I'm there to be there, so you know, wh why
not be there? But one of the exceptions I will
make is if I need to google like nineteen different ingredients. Yes,
(31:39):
and I'm so curious about all of this.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now. Thank you for trying it and for telling us
about it. Yeah, now we're gonna have to look up
all of those things episode topics perhaps.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Oh yeah, and I and I oh, I have been
reading all about the Sioux Chef's restaurant that's siou X sue. Yeah, fun,
I love it. Uh and I'm so fascinated by it.
And there's a few restaurants that I'm aware of around
the US that do a similar thing, and I'm so
curious about all of them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I am as well. I know some of you have
written in about it, and we've mentioned some of them
in previous episodes, but please keep writing in about it,
not thing it's no because yep, I I am jealous
about that as well.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, if you do get a reservation, you have to
let us know how it goes.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yes, absolutely, please do well. In the meantime, thank you
so much to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to as you can,
our email is Hello at savorpod dot com. We're also
on social media.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
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Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saver Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reason and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Unline Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about California market squid.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, we always loved doing our sea creatures.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh yeah, they're so weird and great and tasty, a
little scary, as we were just discussing in a lovely way, sure,
in a fun way.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, generally. Was there any particular reason this was on
your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The last time that I was looking for a seafood
related topic, I was kind of browsing through Monterey Bay
Aquariums recommendations for seafood for best choice seafood, and this
was high on the list. And I don't think we've
ever done an episode about squid. We have done squid ink,
(00:58):
which is usually from Cuddle, but but yeah, so I
was like, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
And I have to say not that this was the
same type of squid. And we'll talk about this more later.
But we did recently get to attend a wedding super
producer Dylan. Yeah, congratulations Dylan and Jeanine. Yes, it was.
It was a beautiful wedding. It was great, It was
so lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We got to go do booth karaoke afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Perfect, Yes, we sang our classic Savor songs. It was great.
But there was Calamari there and that was the first
time I'd had it in a while, and I was
reminded of.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Like, oh yeah, so good, a good deep fried Calamari delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, which, speaking of I could have sworn we had
done an episode on Calamari. We have not, Nope, but
we did talk about it in our squidd Ink episode.
We're gonna touch on it briefly in this episode, but
there's more detail in that one, so if you want
(02:07):
to check that out. But I could have sworn Lauren
up and down. I was like, uh jeez, it's getting
messier and messier. I do. I do love a good
I do love a good squid in a variety of forms.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Me too, Oh yeah, I'm pretty picky about it being cooked. Well, like,
if it's overcooked, I want nothing to do with it.
It's cooked perfectly. I want more and more of it.
So that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, me too, know the cravings. Oh yeah, yes,
well you can see our past episodes that we have
done on various sea creatures. Yes, the squid inc Episode.
Even though as Lauren said, not typically squid ink cuttlefish ink.
(03:03):
But there's a lot of stuff about squid in there.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, well, I guess that burns us to our question. Sure,
California market squid, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, California market squid are a type of smallish cephalopod
that are caught wild off the west coast of North
America and eaten however you like to eat seafood. The
two sort of like cuts of meat that you get
off of them are their thin walled tube shaped body,
and then their arms and tentacles ten in total, which
(03:40):
are even thinner. The tube might be cut into rings
or left hole, and often in that case will be
like stuffed with some kind of maybe rice pull off
sort of situation. Both cuts are often breaded and deep fried,
served hot with dipping sauce, but you can also use
them in soups or stews, grill or pants. Hear them,
maybe toss them with noodles or rice salad, chop them
(04:01):
into a nice light savice, or even eat them raw
or like very slightly blanched as in sushi type preparations.
When they are raw, they're slightly translucent ivory to maybe
a reddish purple in color with a bit of an
apalescent sheen, and they stay about the same color but
go opaque and lose the sheine when they're cooked. And
again you really don't want to overcook them because they
(04:23):
will go rubbery. But when they're done right, they're like springy,
tender in texture with this mild sweet, like almost nutty flavor,
almost like a sort of springy fresh cheese, like a
like a mozzarella or something. They're a little bit of
a blank palette to build other flavors and textures on,
but also just really nice onto themselves. They're like they
(04:47):
are weird, squiggly little sea monsters that are actually really
delicate and soft. Yeah, I'm self identifying with this now, I.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Just need someone to understand to know, okay. California market
squid yes are traditionally most abundant off the coast of
northern Mexico to central California, like Baja through Monterey Bay.
They only grow up to about a foot long that's
(05:24):
around thirty centimeters including their tentacles, and live less than
a year, usually like six to nine months. This is
a species that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Grows to reproductive capacity. Does that thing and then dies
within a year, so basically the entire population replaces itself
every year, and as long as you're not catching too
many of them when they're juvenile, the population can stand
up to pretty heavy fishing because of that. This also
makes them an important part of the food chain. They
(05:53):
both consume like a lot of smaller ocean gritters and
our prey for a lot of larger ones. Adult market
squid will have a long, tubular body with a two
kind of triangular fins at the top and a small
head at the bottom consisting of two eyes, one on
each side of the head and a mouth in the
bottom center, with a beak to help them like rend
(06:14):
or crack open prey that's too large to eat whole. Yes,
squid have beaks. This is part of where they're terrifying.
I love them, okay, And they will grow from kind
of like baby carrot to regular carrot sized. Baby carrot
is a descriptor that I read somewhere during my journey
over the past day, and I can't get that out
of my head.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I love it, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They have eight short arms and two longer tentacles coming
down off of their head. The arms are for movement
like swimming and pushing off surfaces. The tentacles are used
for grasping prey or mates. They have valves near the
head that they use to push water and propel themselves,
and they're in color. They're this like really pretty modeled
(06:57):
white and reddish purple with some translucent and iridescence and
will change color based on environmental factors, often to confuse predators,
possibly depending on like mood and or to communicate with
each other. They do produce ink and will release a
cloud of it to again confuse predators. When they spawn,
(07:17):
the male squid deposit once called spermatophores, which are basically
like protected sperm sacks into the female squid which have
been busy producing eggs, and then when they release the
eggs the eggs get fertilized. The eggs will come in
these protective cases. A squid might lay about twenty cases
that each contain some two hundred eggs, so yes, that's
(07:38):
like four thousand eggs per squid. A lot of them
do not live long enough to reproduce themselves, so you
kind of have to have a lot in order to
make it all work.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The egg cases, by the way, are really like ghostly pretty.
They're laid in these clusters on the seafloor like little
white sea and enemies. During bonding season, it is not
unusual for over one hundred square meters of seafloor to
just be covered with their eggsacks. That's like three hundred
(08:10):
square feet. That's a large amount of squid egg sacks.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
You learning very hard to not freak out, But this
just sounds so like alien or something.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, yep, yet not no, Yeah. About a month or
so later, those eggs will hatch into sort of like
chibi versions of an adult, like basically the same body structure,
just smaller and kind of cuter and rounder. And as
they grow, they'll go from eating like like plankton and
(08:49):
krill to small crustaceans and fish and other squid. Yes,
they are cannibals, but they're not like particularly aggressive. They'll
also school together in large groups other than humans and themselves.
They're preyed upon by larger fish, seabirds, and marine mammals,
and they are often used as bait by recreational fissures
(09:09):
around California. There is ongoing research about like whether a
single squid can spawn multiple times before they die, and
how long they will naturally live after spawning before death.
It always kind of blows my mind a little when
we don't have answers to what seems like a basic
(09:30):
question like this for like common economically important marine creatures.
And then I have to remind myself that like oceans
are hard, like we cannot breathe underwater, and it is
dark down there.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So yeah, yeah, there's a couple of road blocks. So yeah, yeah,
so that's fair, No no judgment science, I know that
you're working on it. Although they can and.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Do dive to around like twenty six hundred feet that's
about eight hund undred meters, they hang out near the
surface a lot and can also be drawn to the
surface at night by using lights pointed at the water,
which apparently simulate moonlight, which prey species would be drawn to.
I think I'm not sure anyway. Because of this, and
because they do school with each other, you can kind
(10:17):
of just go scoop a lot of them from right
near the surface without really interfering with many other animals
or the seabed, which is great environmentally speaking. They do
come closer to shore when they spawn also, so like
you don't even have to travel very far out to
do this. There are permit systems in place and like
(10:37):
weekend closures to allow time for spawning to occur without
human interruption. But because of the kind of range of
latitudes where they live and they're slightly offset life cycles,
because of the temperatures through those latitudes, they're able to
be harvested year round up and down the coast. They're
(10:58):
known for being a little bit tricky and or gross
to clean and butcher at home. I have not tried
to do this myself, but I have read that once.
Like you have the knack for it, it's easy. They
are often sold pre cleaned though, and yeah, they can
be served hot or chilled, raw to well cooked in
any number of ways. That kind of tender chewy, almost
(11:23):
buttery texture lends itself to like pasta and rice dishes
that have a sort of al dente chew themselves. I
really do compare them to like a semi firm cheese,
Like they're just mild and have a tender bite and
that sweetness that some seafood has really nice.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It is really nice. Oh what about the nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Market squid are pretty good for you. Lots of protein,
a good smattering of micronutrients. They are really low in fat,
so it's good to pair them with a bit of
fat when you're with them. It's also tasty and eat
a vegetable always. Well, we do have some numbers for
you on this one. We do okay. At least thirty
(12:12):
eight species other than humans depend on market squid as
a food source. Also, it's difficult to measure sea above
read the ocean is hard, but it's thought that market
squid have the largest biomass of any economically important species
off the coast of California.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And speaking of this species is incredibly important to California.
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife estimated that the
California market squid can rake up to seventy million dollars
a year. The twenty twenty two catch brought in eighty
four million dollars.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah. Yeah, that was about one hundred and forty seven
million pounds of these squid, which is actually only about
sixty percent, like sixty two percent of the total that's
legally allowed to be caught in California in a year.
So the industry is well maintained sustainably speaking, though natural
fluctuations in the population kind of make it difficult to
(13:14):
predict total landings year to year. Fishers can catch tons
at a time with big purse style nets, and market
squid account for about a quarter of all commercial fishery
in California by weight and about twelve percent of revenue
(13:35):
for fishers. So a big deal, A big deal for
small buddies, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
A big deal for small buddies. Yes, and they have
quite the history behind them. They do, they do.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It's a relatively recent one and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, okay. So, yes,
cephalopods have been around for hundreds of millions of years.
We continually have to remind ourselves this is a food show.
But they have been along. They've been around for a
long time, and people with access to them have been
(14:27):
eating them since ancient times, especially in the Mediterranean and Asia. Now,
when it comes to the California market squid and them
as a food source. While people had surely been eating
them on a small scale before, it wasn't until the
nineteenth century with the wave of Chinese immigrants settling in
(14:48):
California that it started to become something a little bit
bigger than that. In the late eighteen hundreds, the fishing
industry in Monterey Bay and the nearby area really start
to grow, and competition grew between fishers as well. So
as a result, many Chinese migrants that had settled in
(15:08):
the area were forced out of this more profitable market,
especially yeah when it was like the big the things
that most Americans were into at the time. So these
Chinese fishermen pivoted and started fishing for squid, which was
a popular item in Asia but not yet popular in
(15:30):
the United States, so there was less competition for it.
In fact, squid was often tossed back when it was
caught in the US at the time. To further avoid competition,
some of these fishers went out at night and use
the light from their torches to lure the squid to
(15:51):
the surface. And I will admit the first time I
read this, I thought it was the British use of
the word Georges in the flashlight, and then I had
to be like, nope, Nope.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
In the eighteen hundreds, that would have been literal fire torches.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, that would have been not correct. Yeah, So, these
Chinese immigrants established the first fishery for market squid in
eighteen sixty three in Monterey Bay, California. At the time,
a lot of the squid was dried and shipped to China,
though there was local consumption as well, especially within these
(16:28):
immigrant communities that had a history of eating squid. Okay,
that's kind that was kind of the state of things.
But beginning in the nineteen fifties, California market squid fisheries
started opening further south in the state, and this coincided
with the decline of the Pacific sardine population. Fishers who
(16:50):
were looking for replacement often turned to market squid. For
the next few decades, the industry still remained small, though,
and it wasn't until demand increased in the eighties that
that changed, and pretty significantly, like significantly, during the nineteen
(17:11):
eighties and nineteen nineties, the squid fishing market in California
substantially expanded. It was one of the most lucrative and
important fishing markets of the state.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, like the most lucrative until about the mid nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, And as I said, a part of this growth
was due to things like the collapse of other fisheries
in the state, like sardines and anchovies, and an increasing
consumer demand for calamarin. Okay, so very brief calamaria side.
Beginning in the seventies, the fishing industry in the US
(17:50):
was growing increasingly alarmed in the face of depleted stocks
of popular fish like cod. Meanwhile, fishers of squid had
been saying, Hey, we have this population of squid, but
there just isn't demand in America. Politicians, environmentalists, producers, and
academics all came together to convince Americans they should be
(18:12):
eating squid. It was a whole campaign. I love this,
I know, like it just has this like a symbol vibe.
So the primary complaint consumers had was about the texture.
So someone got the idea of slicing it, breading it,
(18:33):
and frying it similar to onion rings. People also started
referring to it as calamari instead of squid to sort
of rebrand it and make it sound more quote fixotic.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah. This was also a time when Italian cuisine and
I guess Mediterranean cuisine more widely was very popular around
the United States.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yes, yes, and calamaris for exclaim it. Another suggestion was
to serve it in smaller portions as an appetizer, so
people could dip their toes in so they could try it,
and then once they liked it, get more. And it worked,
and in less than a decade, customer demand in the
(19:19):
United States had gone up dramatically. It was such a
striking and meteoric increase that in twenty fourteen, the New
York Times created what they called the Fried Calamari Index
to track the history and emergence of trendy figs, which
again you can see our squitting episode for more details.
(19:39):
It's really fascinating and kind of funny. Yeah, but yeah, Okay,
So global volume of squid in general went up in
the nineties in Asian and European markets, though a devastating
El Nino and poorer working conditions in Asia really did
some damage to the industry and in particular really expanded
(20:01):
in terms of their squid industry, but also in processing
of squid, which, as you said, Lauren, that could be
kind of a pain, which is still a conversation when
it comes to California market squid. And this paved the
way for China to become a dominant market force when
it comes to squid. Starting in the eighties, the US
(20:24):
began implementing measures to prevent over harvesting of squid, something
that was a bit tricky since there were no concrete
estimates about their population side. There still aren't. There still aren't.
People are working on it, but there still are not.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Again, as you said, oceans are tricky and squid like
to move about. They do. Can't stop them, yes, but
these implementations limited the catch size and instituted weekend closures
so the squid could on and rebuild their population. Fishermen
landed a little over one hundred and five thousand tons
(21:08):
of California market squid in the nineteen ninety nine to
two thousand season.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It just really ballooned. It really got big. Oh yeah,
And yes, there have been numerous attempts over the years
to nail down a number for the California market squid
stock and to scientifically explain why it seems to fluctuate
so much. Early observations indicated that the temperature from the
(21:37):
previous season was a significant factor in the current season's numbers.
With the invention implementation of new technologies, are understanding of
the squid and their population has grown. But yeah, we're
still a little still figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, we know that temperature has to do with how
quickly and how robustly the eggs will have, but we're
still kind of like, oh.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, we're speaking of A twenty twenty study found that
market squid population may be migrating farther north due to
climate change.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's not understood yet whether this is a sort
of temporary move which has happened before, or a more
permanent migration, like during particularly warm weather. They've been known
in the past to migrate as far north as Alaska.
But like, just for example, fissures off the coast of
Oregon were selling zero dollars worth of market squid as
(22:35):
of twenty fifteen, and just five years later in twenty twenty,
they had started selling like a pretty predictable like six
million dollars worth. So, yeah, the squid are so numerous
where they exist that this is kind of concerning because
like they might start to have an impact on the
native populations of animals that they prey on. And this
(22:57):
is compounded because they have been observed to grow older
and larger further north and thus expand their prey to
larger animals than usual.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Right, And then in June twenty twenty three, Monterey Bay
Aquarium Seafood Watch released an updated statement on California market squid,
labeling it a best choice in terms of sustainability. So
this was an update. There had been previous statements they'd
(23:29):
put up that had said kind of the same thing. However,
a recent investigation into the squid industry in China, including
squid processing plants that process market squid that may be
shipped back to the US, found numerous concerns and issues
around sustainability, workers' rights, and forced labor. And a part
(23:52):
of this problem is something we've talked about before, is very,
very difficult to trace exactactly where this squid in this
case is coming from and where it has been yeah
along the way.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, this is a part of a much larger problem,
a heck and huge problem really in the in the
fishing industry, where yeah, there is a lot of fish fraud,
there are a lot of human rights violations there, and
it is difficult to trace where your seafood is going
(24:30):
and where it's coming from. And right as I was
suggesting this episode, I was putting kind of on the
back Burner an idea to do like fraud in the
fishing industry is an episode topic later on.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's a big problem. And this investigation in
particular was mentioning that it just takes so long to
investigate and it's so complicated, Yeah, to investigate. And one
of the articles I found from NPR, which I believe
(25:06):
we mentioned in the squidding episode, but it was about
how there's all of this California market squid but it
gets sent off to be processed in China, then it
comes back. Yeah, it comes back. So it's sort of
a strange, and there are reasons for that. It's cheaper
(25:27):
to do it that.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Way better, No cheaper, yes, as with many large industrial things,
that is the case. Yeah, yes, but they also because
some of the producers.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Of California market squid were like, we can do it,
but people won't pay for it. Yeah. Yeah, So something
to keep in mind is always when you're making your decisions.
But yeah, it's hard, it's complicated, it is, it really is. Yeah,
(26:01):
you can you can also see.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
If you really want to know more in the meanwhile
and you really want to know more from one of
our episodes, we do touch on issues like this in
our a Wahoo episode on the Big Fish Industry.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
So yes, yeah, we do. But we would love to
hear from any listeners. Oh yeah, oh my goodness, if
you're in the industry, if you have recipes, memories.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
If you just really like squid and you want to
talk to us about squid. We want to hear squid
facts all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Squid facts, any squid horror stories or not horror stories.
But we were discussing sometimes they've appeared in horror yeah,
before we started talking. We love it all. We love
it all. But that is what we have to say
about the California market squid for now it is.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
We do already have some non squid related listener mail
for you, though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you.
I went back with yeah, yeah, of course. Of course
(27:37):
that's how squid sound in the game. So that's what
I'm gonna go with, perfect, perfect Yeah, science, yep, yes,
that's what it is. Jen wrote your episode on Ramps
reminded me that it's almost Biddlehead season. I've never forged
for these, but I'm always excited when they pop up
(28:00):
in local stores for a brief window in early spring
here in Halifax. I believe they are most commonly found
in neighboring New Brunswick. Just make sure you boil them
well and discard the water, as I've been told under
cooking them can lead to some intestinal distress. Future episode
topic perhaps, Oh yeah, definitely, yes, yes, and then Gen
(28:24):
followed up and had gotten some since a beautiful picture.
They look lovely. I am incredibly jealous once again.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, yeah, they're so pretty. I've never had them, but
I've seen so many pictures because they are so pretty.
They look well, I mean, we were just talking about squid,
but they look like a little weird floral tentacle. And yeah,
I have no idea what they taste like.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Oh I don't either, Jen right in they like ramps.
They feel to me like it would be something that
tastes like spring. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't
know either.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
More to learn in the future. Yes, Aaron wrote, I've
been listening to you too since pretty much your food
stuff days, and I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity
to write in that whole time. Well, I finally have one.
My partner and I were recently at an Argentinian restaurant
called Porsana in Minneapolis, which has quickly become my partner's
(29:28):
favorite restaurant in the Twin Cities. Their empanadas are excellent,
and they consistently have the best steak either of us
has ever eaten. The reason I'm writing, however, is for
the drinks. I don't drink much, but I was perusing
their cocktail menu when I came across one that featured pisco.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
The name rang a.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Bell, and after a quick Google search, I realized that
I had learned about it from Saber. The cocktail, called
Gigi had pisco, maqui, kamucamu, Indian BlackBerry, boldo leaf, pasubillo, esperadina.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I still don't know what a lot of those ingredients are.
But the drink was delicious. The pisco had a very
pleasant wine like flavor, and the drink itself tasted a
lot like a sangria, but was much lighter and less
alcohol forward. I liked it so much that a bottle
of pisco will be coming home with me as soon
as I'm able to find one. The Twin Cities area
has an incredible local restaurant scene while still being a
(30:22):
slightly smaller metro area, and it's an awesome place to
go if you're looking for that kind of thing. Also,
I wanted to highlight one other restaurant in the area,
a Womni, which is a Native American restaurant founded by
the sous chef. All of their ingredients are native to
North America and the menu changes seasonally. I haven't been
able to get a reservation yet, but hope too soon.
Thanks for introducing me to so many new foods and drinks,
(30:44):
most of which I likely would not try otherwise. Oh yeah, oh,
thank you, You're welcome and thank you. Yes, I hope
I didn't butcher the pronunciation of all of those ingredients.
I don't know what most of them are either.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I don't know. But even without knowing that, drake sounds
really goodless sounds lovely. Yeah. Oh heck right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I was thinking about this when I when I first
kind of read, like like glanced through this email. And
I try really hard to not have my phone out
when I'm out at a restaurant, you know, like I'm there, Yeah,
I'm there to be there, so you know, wh why
not be there? But one of the exceptions I will
make is if I need to google like nineteen different ingredients. Yes,
(31:39):
and I'm so curious about all of this.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now. Thank you for trying it and for telling us
about it. Yeah, now we're gonna have to look up
all of those things episode topics perhaps.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Oh yeah, and I and I oh, I have been
reading all about the Sioux Chef's restaurant that's siou X sue. Yeah, fun,
I love it. Uh and I'm so fascinated by it.
And there's a few restaurants that I'm aware of around
the US that do a similar thing, and I'm so
curious about all of them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I am as well. I know some of you have
written in about it, and we've mentioned some of them
in previous episodes, but please keep writing in about it,
not thing it's no because yep, I I am jealous
about that as well.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, if you do get a reservation, you have to
let us know how it goes.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yes, absolutely, please do well. In the meantime, thank you
so much to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to as you can,
our email is Hello at savorpod dot com. We're also
on social media.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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