December 27, 2023 • 35 mins
To brie, or not to brie, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the caves to age to the firmness and funk of outrageous Roquefort, or to take weeks to form a rind of yeast poops, and, post-ripening, eat them. (Sorry I borked the meter. This is a classic about brie, y’all. /LV)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reeves and I'm Larned Vocal bumb and today
we have a classic episode for you about Brim.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I've had a huge craving for Brie already and then
you suggested this and I was like.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh yeah, yeah tis the season man.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's uh.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I had a really good baked brie, like like a
Brian cruit for as an appetizer for Thanksgiving, because that's
the sane thing to do before you have a whole
Thanksgiving meal. It's a tradition amongst my friends. So it's
a lovely tradition. I'm not mad about it. I'm just
saying like, oh yeah, let's begin this dinner with at
least three ounces of cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's a good.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Start, you know, wrapped in pastry with jam yeah into it.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Sounds so good. Is that why I saw on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah? Or I mean you know, like I was kind
of looking through looking through archives and trying to find
something that was like holiday appropriate, and I landed on Brie.
We did this episode originally in December of twenty eighteen,
so clearly it was on our minds then as being
a holiday kind of thing as well. You talk a
lot about in the episode about your cheese giving experience.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So good, I do. Yeah. I love how people adopted that.
Like listeners wrote in and were like, I heard she's
giving now yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I know. It's so great, dude,
spread the love of cheese and she's giving. But Bree
is definitely key in my cheese giving celebrations.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
You have to have it.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
But I will say the heating up of it and
making kind of a melty thing that was a newer
thing for me, and I do associated now with the holidays.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh fabulous. Yeah, just feels so decadent, it does right
right my heck, have you had a common beer experience
since this episode?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh no, okay, all right, it's I'm slacking. I need
to get you some common beer, are I believe?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Recent not recent Frequent writer Eric wrote in Recently that
our savor Fest feast is now going to be a
week long thing, and I was like, at least at
least at a minimum, or we're gonna have to spread
it out. We're gonna have to take time off work.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, we're gonna have to go to Asana yeah we are,
Yes we are, but yes, I very much will take
you up on that. Laurn excellent. All right, well, uh
well we have a whole episode for you about glorious cheese.
So so let's let former Ay and Lauren take it away.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Hello, and welcome to Savor.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm any Reas and I'm Lauren Vogel Bam, and today
we're talking about Bria.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
As in cheese.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, not my friend Brie or the actress Alison Brie. No,
neither of those.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But but yes, it is time. It is about time
we came back and did another cheese episode because Cheddar
was forever.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, I'd forgotten how long it had been. I think
I just eat so much cheese. I was like, well
this is covered.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I have a friend who probably every other
week we have some reason to eat cheese, like a
big amount, a large amount of cheese. We have apology cheese,
congratulations cheese. And last the week after Thanksgiving we did
cheese Giving and Bri. I always make sure there's Bree
(04:01):
because it's one of my main four cheeses that have
to be there for me to be happy, otherwise it
won't be complete.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I love all of your lists I'm a very.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
List forward person. Everything is part of a list. There's
a local cheesemaker, the Woodsman and Wife. They make one
of my favorite breeze. I mean it's bree like I
don't know if it's technically a breeze.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, we'll get into that in a second.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, but I'm not even sure it's like technically, oh,
a brie type a lowercase. It's called out of the ashes.
I think the the rind was grown ashes. They were
ashes around it. And it's so good. It's expensive, but
it's so good.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh, tally noted. I'll have to look for it.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, it's downstairs. Oh no, always tempting me. Also, there's
a wiki cheese. I didn't know that, but there's a
wiki cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Things that I didn't know. The word tuophile, it's the
word of the day. It's a one who loves cheese. Well,
we're both terrophile, Yes, we certainly are.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
But this brings us to our question bri What is it?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, bri is a category of soft ripened cheeses with
mold ripened rines, sometimes called bloomy rinds, meaning that their
texture is a semi ferm on the outside, like a
cheddar kind of but melty soft on the inside. Even
at room temperature. They're typically a white to straw yellow
on the inside and a mate white maybe with a
little bit of a kind of streaking or striping on
(05:34):
the outside. And you make bri. Well, there's a lot
of details that you can change around, but the basics
are this. You take milk, yeah, and add something to
help it coagulate to form up into kurds, because milk
is an emulsion of water and water soluble stuff mixed
evenly with little globules of fats and fat soluble stuff.
Because those globules naturally repel each other like a like
(05:57):
wee magnets in the water. Ah h yeah, you know
when you try to press two negative or two positive
vents for magnet together and you can't. It's like that,
but with these little fat globules. So to get milk
to stop being milk and start being cheese, you need
to convince the globules to stop propelling each other and
cling up a first, by changing the pH of the milk,
(06:20):
which will change the charge of the globules. You can
do this by adding an acid or in the case
of brie and many other cheeses, adding friendly bacteria that
eat the sugars in milk and poop lacked acid what bacteria,
or you can break off some of the molecules on
(06:41):
the edges of the globules that are making them repel.
And you can do this by adding enzymes that do
that whole breaking off thing. Rennet is a product made
up of such enzymes. It occurs naturally in the fourth
stomachs of young cows, goats, and sheep to help them
break down and process milk. Makes sense, but don't worry,
veget Rennet can also be made from lab farmed bacteria
(07:03):
poop or found in some plants like fake leaves.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I love the idea of just a farm somewhere growing
bacteria poop.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh yeah, there's lots of them. Industrially speaking, there's like
there's like a lot of those around, a lot of
the natural flavors that eat uh yeah, all sorts of
things are bacteria farmed. Anyway, back to bree cheese. So
you get your milk, you add lactic acid bacteria maybe
also rent it to it. You heat it to a
temperature at which the bacteria will thrive and the globules
(07:35):
will form up into these solid fat and protein curds.
When the curds are curdy enough, they're poured into disc
shaped molds designed to let the water in whatever water
soluble stuff is left drain off. That's called the whey
m Yes. When the discs are firm enough, they're salted
or washing a brine. Then it's time to age the
(07:56):
cheese and create that rind that we were talking about.
And the rind is formed by fungi, usually Penicillium candiatum,
Penicillium camemberte, or both, but other molds or yeasts can
be used. You probably add cultures of these fungi right
to the surface of the cheese, then set the disks
of cheese in a cool human place to age for
(08:16):
at least three weeks, during which the cheese dries out
more and the mold forms a protective rind over the surface.
All of this creates that texture that's that's velvety, soft
and oozy on the inside and sort of toothsome soft
on the outside, like a like like thick fudge sauce
surrounded by soft wax.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Hmm, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I'm sorry that sounds really gross. I promise bree is lovely.
If you've never had it. That's like the worst description
that I possibly could have.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
She's just trying to keep you away.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, brief for me that the flavor is milky and
grassy and a little bit savory, with notes like a
nuts or mushrooms, and cow milk is the most common
stuff to make out of, but goat milk or blends
can also be used.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And it turns out a lot of us may have
never had legitimate bris. To qualify as the real deal,
bris has to come from specific areas within ill de France.
Oh my accent game, I don't know what's going on.
And this is an area that surrounds Paris.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yes, the name comes from the historical region called bri
within modern day ill Defrance, roughly corresponding with modern day
help me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Out here, stan a moon.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh, I never would have gotten that. The reason that
many of us have not had legitimate breeze is not
that the French are like boguarding them or anything like that.
They're they're produced using unpasteurized milk, sometimes called raw milk,
and in the United States, a law set down almost
seventy years ago states that cheese made from raw milk
has to be aged at least sixty days, and bri
(09:57):
is aged less than that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
But a lot of manufacturers from other areas, cheese manufacturers
and other countries sell a product called briez. It's not
as strictly controlled as something like champagne.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, there are a lot of breeze style cheeses, including
from that same region.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, and when I was looking into this, I believe
you can even find Well, let's get into some legitimate
breeze and I'll come back to this point. Okay, okay, So,
of the so called legitimate breeze, there are a couple
of types.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And their fame might be influenced by their production region's
location in proximated pairs.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Might be, might be there's Breed de Mall, which is
the finest of French breeze.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Wheels of this cheese are made to be fourteen or
fifteen inches in diameter about two inches high. A combo
of lactic acid, bacteria and rennet helps curdle the milk,
and at the curd stage they are drained without adding
any weights to allow for moisture retention within the curd.
The wide, shallow shape, though the surface dry out pretty thoroughly.
(11:01):
The whole process takes about thirty minutes, and then they're
aged for about three weeks. It's said to feature notes
of mushrooms and almonds one day.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh yeah, it's a Paris field trip that we really
have to take.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That was like our first field trip and it still
hasn't happened. I don't know why our boss will not okay.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It we went to New Orleans. Isn't that close enough?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, we're already almost there.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Just come on.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But like I was gonna say, you can buy something
in the United States called breedom all and it actually
isn't that.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right because didn't someone copyright that name did here in
the States. It's so tricksy.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I know. We'll touch on that more in our history bit.
The second type of legitimate breeze is breed' melon, and.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
This uses just lactic acid bacteria to curdle the milk
from what I understand, which takes longer than a lactic
acid bacteria plus rennet. It takes about eighteen hours. They're
also aged for longer, like four to eight weeks, and
the wheels are made smaller, only ten or eleven inches
in diameter and like an inch and a half high.
The result of all of this is a firmer cheese.
(12:13):
It's less gooey, more gelled all the way through, and
has a thicker rind. The flavor is also less delicate,
with notes of salt, sour and barnyard, like your a
favorite or least favorite sour beer, as the case may.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Be, notes of barnyard. Then there are the illegitimate breed
Yeah scandal, I know. There is Brida montro blueberries, which
gets an injection into the rind to create a hybrid
between blue cheese and brie.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Or the discs can be sliced in half and a
layer of a Penicillium rockaforte or other blue mold can
be added before sandwiching and aging the discs. Other bree
types can sandwich other stuff in there by the way,
like a layer of mustard, which I want to try
so much now bre and mustard.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, there's bri noir, and this is the result of
a longer aging time. This kind of darker blacker rind
up to two years, and it produces bre with a
stronger flavor, a darker, drier cheese, and a darker rind.
In the area where bri noir is made, folks like
to dip it in their Cafe La for breakfast. Oh
(13:24):
that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
We're both just shaking our heads, just like we need
to go eat that immedium.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I mean, there's no question. Yeah, we have to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Although that could be sold in the US, you think,
Oh yeah, because aged for two.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Years, I for we were researching this episode the day
that of cheese giving and I went to a cheese
place like I've never had real bree my god, and
I had found all of these breeze that are like
the closest thing you could get in the US, and
they didn't have any of them. Oh no, now now
(13:59):
that I know, bri Noir could be here and it's
it wasn't at this cheese place and therefore not on
my cheese giving platter.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Oh, get a cheesemonger on the horn.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, we need a resident cheesemonger, you doo. He or
she would not be lacking for work.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
No, no, that'd be earning their money.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's true. There's also breeze with all kinds of coating,
of course, and aside from just stuffing it in your
face as it is, you can bake bree That's a
popular recipe. Or Brion cruits, which is pre encased in
pastry and then baked. It's great with fruit and honey.
And I know this is gonna grow some folks at
but one of my favorite recipes with brie is a
(14:41):
grilled sandwich with nutella, pumpkin butter and bri.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Oh that sounds delicious, It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I had a friend once and she was so grossed
out by it, and I convinced her, you gotta try
this a little bit. And she likes bree enough where
she came around. She loves it, and now she asked
me to make it all the time. And I'm like, look,
that has a special occasion sandwich. And I also don't
have new tell around because I can't trust myself around it.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So no, I feel you.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to make your own. I've
given you the tools and knowledge go forth on.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
One of my favorite grilled cheese offshoots is a grilled
bree and apple sandwich.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeaheah, that's a good one. Apparently, removing the tip from
brie if you cut it with wise when serving is
a faux pau called pointing the brieh really, yeah, because
I guess that's a very desired part.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Oh okay, So you're supposed to only get a little
bit of it in like a cross section. So if
you just take the whole thing, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's a big faux pat. And I saw someone do
it at cheese giving, and I resisted until later. Then
I was like, you know, I saw what you did
with the bree and she was very confused. But it's
the ratio of rind to cheese the best. Yeah. Also,
(16:06):
there are some super over ripe cheeses and they are
called dead and they're completely solidified.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh sure, I guess if it's all dried out. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
The rind, by the way, is totally edible and tasty,
So like, don't cut it away unless you genuinely dislike
the texture or the taste. And if you think you
dislike the texture, try it along with some of the
interior after letting your slice of bree come to room
temperature for at least half an hour or forty minutes.
It's a flavor and texture combo sensation that I think
(16:42):
is very nice too, And I hope you would agree.
The rind can, by the way, be sort of modeled
or cracked through with a little bit of brown or red.
That's also fine and totally safety.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
The first time I had bree it usually here in
the US it comes in those like real and then
it comes in the white plasticish wax paper type stock. Yeah,
and then you peel that away, and it usually kind
of sticks to the rind, And I thought that the
rind was like a part of the wrapping. It just
(17:15):
like attached itself to the so I was trying to
slice a saw and then I served it. People were like,
what is it? What happened to the breed? And since
a lot of us haven't had real brie, many cheesemongers
expressed disdain for this bland, boring thing that is American
(17:40):
bri and anger that this has led to a palette
that favors bland. Take this email from a New York cheesemonger.
There is real bri one percent, literally, and then there
is factory brie lowercase B ninety nine percent, day and night. Anyway,
one who chooses the bree found in the shittiest supermarkets,
(18:03):
the finest supermarkets, the cheekest food shops is making a
really bad choice. Dang, yeah, but I love it. My
Palette's not plannd.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I just like simple foods as well as complex ones. Yeah,
I like eating cheese. Okay, goodness, cheese. There's another question
we must answer here, Bree what it's not, and that
(18:36):
is canon Bear, because apparently there's a lot of confusion
around this, and I honestly can't tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I don't know what Camen bear. I've seen it.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It looks very similar, it tastes very similar, and in
my experience it tends to be a little bit more
flavorful than most American breeze that I found a little
bit more pungent.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So I should give canon Bear a shot.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Absolutely, I would say so.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I'm sure I've had it. I just can't pinpoint when
they are.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
They are very similar, but they are not the same.
For one, Camembert comes from a different region Normandy. It
isn't aged in big rines like brie, but small around
that entail a different ripening process. And this also means
it is covered in rind, whereas brie, which is slices
from a wheal, might not be. This impacts the ever
(19:24):
important rind to cheese ratio, and Bree has more fat.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Or it can that there are you can have double
or triple cream breeze which which brings us actually to nutrition.
Oh yes, nutrition will vary from brand to brand, and
even a little bit from wheal to wheel. But cheese
is calorie dense, y'all. It was made to preserve and
condense the nutrition in milk and breeze fatty. It has
(19:50):
about a quarter of your daily recommended intake of saturated fat.
But it also has a good amount of protein like
over a tenth of year recommended daily intake, plus a
smattering of vitamins and minerals. Riba flavor be twelve calcium
and phosphorus. And back to that double versus triple cream thing, Okay,
bree and kemembert generally both fall into the category of
(20:10):
double crem cheeses, which means that they're made so that
the dry matter of the finished product is sixty to
seventy five percent butter fat. Triple creams are made to
have over seventy five percent butter fat. And note here
that the word cream being in the descriptor of these
cheeses doesn't necessarily mean that they're more fattening than like
regular old cheddar or whatever. Like, yes, triple cream has
(20:33):
more fat than double cream, but both have more water
content than a dry aged cheese, so by weight, the
fat content is gonna be fairly comparable or maybe even
lower than dry aged cheeses. Remember that the serving size
for any cheese is going to top out at about
an ounce. Red labels your check online for information if
if this really matters to you, or you know, if
(20:56):
you can just let go and let God.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
To let cheese come to my mouth. Yes, I mean
one ounce. I shudder to think. What are cheese giving?
How many ounces that up to?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's a party, it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It's a giving of the cheeses.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yes, it's a celebration. You're allowed to have celebrations.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's true. Sometimes it is an offering of an apology.
It is many things.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Cheese.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Cheese is many things, too many of us. And speaking
of many of us, numbers for pre consumption are not
easy to come by. I can say for myself it's
quite high, probably for one person. So if anyone has
access to pre numbers, let us know.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, it's a wide category, it is. But but we
do have some history for you.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, but first.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
We have a quick break for premier sponsor.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Brie
has probably been around and kicking for a while.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
At least four hundred years, but its exact invention point
is difficult to pin.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Down, very difficult. But this is a cheese that is
rife with legends. Oh, there's a cheese pond there. There's
so many cheese punts to be made. Anyway, there's a
popular legend that tells of French Emperor Charlemagne falling in
love with a soft cheese while stopping over and roll
onbri Monastery, and he loved it. As he loved it,
(22:43):
his love of it spread throughout the land. It came
to be known as the King's cheese, and after the
French Revolution, the King of cheeses.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Ah, yes, I want to.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Cheese like royalty family trees so badly. Some people argue
that cheese charlemagne triad was Rockefort, but this is much disputed.
Heated cheese debates have ensued.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh that's that's my favorite kind of debate. Heated cheese debate.
I'd attend one of those.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I would too, I would too, and kind of related.
Let's set the scene a bit for this next part
is the nineteenth century eighteen fifteen, to be exact, the
Congress of Vienna. This is the party to be at
one of history's Fancius Schmancius Shindigs. Folks are Schmoosien Schmoosion,
(23:43):
powerful diplomats or dividing up nations. French diplomat and well
known connoisseur of all things food. Teleyrand gets the attention
of the room and he calls for a cheese tournament.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I like the cut of this guy's jib.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
He knew what was up. I guess it was to
ease the tension, or maybe he just wanted to talk cheese.
I don't know. The representative from England nominated Stilton, the
Dutch representative Limburger Switzerland Greare, and then Tallyrand nominates Brie
and the vote was cast. Sixty cheeses in all were nominated,
(24:23):
and Brie was declared Laurent de Fromage the key of Cheese.
Very dramatic. Indeed, I'm sure I hope there was a ceremony,
a nighting. I don't know. I hope they really did
it up.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I'm picturing a little crown.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah. Yeah, we both were like moved by the acuteness that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
We're both inappropriately emotionally touched by anyway.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, despite its royalty status, Brie was not just reserved
for nobility. Peasants ate it as well. Another story places
Breeze origins long before Charlemagne in the Middle East in
a saddle bag. And that might sound familiar because it's
the same story we told in the Cheddar episode. It's
sort of the origin story of cheese at large. Maybe
(25:12):
it was Brie, probably not, but definitely an ancestor.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Britomo is said to date to the Roman era. Hmm,
don't know about that yet.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Another legend, after King Henry the Fourth of England's wife,
Queen Margo, introduced him to Brie, he fell so in
love with it he chose it over dining with his wife,
the one who introduced him to it when given.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
The choice, harsh diss that is, I.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Mean, I love Brie. That was like the question they
asked of like if it's two people your friends.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, that's like a trolley problem. That's like the Lady
and the tiger. Goodness all right.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
However, Bree's history change when the Congress of and much
of what came out of that was abandoned and the
Franco Prussian War tore through the region where brie is made,
doing lasting damage to their dairy industry. On top of that,
industrialization pushed out the small creamries making bree to make
way for cheese factories and to add more salt to
(26:20):
the wound. These factories weren't even making bri. Brie was
being made in factories in a different region.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh yeah. Then in nineteen forty nine, skipping ahead a little,
a typhoid outbreak traced back to milk prompted that legislation
requiring milk and milk products to be pasteurized in the
United States.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And this kind of eliminated that the ogbrie of Charlemagne
that was unpasteurized and eaten before it had aged too long.
I mean, yep, probably none of us have had whatever
Charlemagne had and fell in love with ahlas Bree really
took off from the United States in the seventies and eighties,
both Brebri and this factory in name only Bri. And
(27:06):
then in nineteen eighty the French government, the queith Brix
with the Appalachian dogin controller, putting in place the standards
for legitimate bris. And then, yeah, concerned about all of
the potential bacteria in this imported brix. In nineteen eighty seven,
the FDA in the US re upped to the regulation
that all Jesus had to either be pasteurized or age
(27:27):
for sixty days. You can't really get the real thing,
the real deal in the United States. In fact, in
the seventies, a US importer trademarked Breedo MO so that
he could put that label on Jesus in the United
States that are not technically Breedo mo like we're tying
out earlier, you know. Tricky but enterprising.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
But as of twenty sixteen, the FDA said that they
would look into raw milk cheeses again, having heard a
lot of pushback from our and cheesemakers here in the States.
There's no word yet though on whether they will loosen
their standing.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
O FDA, if you listen, please get on that priority
of her life.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I mean, put a warning label on it if you
have to. But goodness, okay, we have research to do.
We've done a little bit of research already. We have
we have, and we're going to get into some of that.
But first we're going to get into one more quick
ad break for a word from our.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Sponsor and we're back.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Thank you. So I wanted to talk just a tiny
bit about whether or not that raw milk cheese law
is too restrictive. Okay, So I started to look into
this whole raw milk versus pasteurized milk thing, the whole
safety thing, especially when it comes to cheese and the
age of cheese is. It's a really big topic. It
(29:04):
could probably be an entire episode. Unto itself, I will
say that it's probably better for those of us who
are you know, compromised, or or have some other kind
of issue going on to avoid raw milk products that
have not an agent appropriate amount of time. But I
do want to say that those bacteria and molds that
(29:26):
I talked about being part of the making of Bree
Cheese at the top of the show, they're all non
toxic to humans. They are perfectly safe to eat. And furthermore,
they all help inhibit the growth of toxic bacteria and
molds in cheese.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
They're like superhero mold in bacteria.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
They are not all superheroes wear capes. Some of them
poop flavors in your cheese, in your cheese and beer,
remember that, And yogurt m h and sour dough bread, chocolate,
and pepperoni coffee.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The show from now on henceforth, we'll just be Laurena
and I listing, you know, I, like we said at
the top, I love a good list.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I think we found a true calling, which is just
listing food.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Just quietly and sadly saying food words into microphones. I'm
sure that there's an ASMR channel just for that. Y'all
write it and let us know. If you want that thing,
we can do it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Oh, clearly, clearly we can.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I have some other science though, about the texture of bri,
because I found some really cool articles about it and
I just wanted to share this with y'all. So, all right,
brie that is at the top of its game is
gonna bulge out of its rind at cool or room temperatures.
But it shouldn't actually be runnym hmm. Runny bree indicates
that it's over ripe and less than top quality. If
(30:50):
you find that bri you've just bought is runny, check
the cell by date and if you're within like a
week or so's window next time, maybe try a different
brand or buy it from a different store. It's still
safe to eat. I want you to have the best
bree experience possible.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
WE care about you. We do.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And what's happening here that creates this runniness is that
the lactic acid in the cheese is slowly breaking down
into water and carbon dioxide, making the cheese less acidic, right,
less acid less acidic, and that in turn makes the
calcium that's holding the protein structures of the cheese together
(31:28):
on hold. The calcium will migrate towards the surface of
the cheese, making the rind stiffer and the inside runnier.
That lower acidity can also change how proteins bond with
each other and trigger enzymes like rennet in the cheese
to start breaking down proteins again, both of which will
make the cheese runnier still. Meanwhile, another texture that can
(31:50):
happen in bri that has cool science behind it is
having an oozy layer right under the rind with then
a firmer center. This is called a cream line, and
it happens when the yeasts and the molds living in
the rind eat the lactic acid on the surface of
the cheese, breaking it down and causing increasing ooziness. Again,
this is totally okay to eat. But also again, if
(32:13):
the cream line is like super runny, in the inside
of the cheese is like chalky. Almost again, the cheese
is probably over ripe, less less than perfect.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Less than perfect. If that's not a band, it should
be less than Jake adjacent.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Ooh, lesson Jake cover band. That's what I never wanted.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I don't know what you're talking about. That's an instant hit,
classic music.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
It also translates well into my next point. A little
bit of ammonia smell is natural. Oh yeah, sorry, less
than Jake. I didn't mean that about you. I've never
met you. I'm sure you smell fine. No, inbree cheese,
a little bit of ammonia smell is natural. It's also
the result of those surface fungi, although again too much
probably means the cheese is a little bit old. However,
(33:04):
there is an important footnote to all of this. Different
cheesemakers may have different goals in mind for their products.
If you're in doubt or just curious, talk to the
cheesemaker or a cheesemonger about how a particular cheese is
meant to look and feel.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yes, we can't recommend enough conversations with cheesemongers.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh yeah, Oh, if any of y'all are a cheese monk,
let us know, like, let us know if we can
have you on call, except maybe give us like a
Google Voice number or something, because you don't want us
to really have your cell phone number. We would be
really obnoxious.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
It would be like three p fifty eight am and
then emergency breed question. That's what it would be. Just
so you're we're clear on like the job description. Yeah,
m I love all of this science. Like my next
cheese giving, I'm just gonna take a minute and be
grateful for all the science.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, for all the microbes, all the lactic acid, the
real here.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.
We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed
doing it and rerunning it. We hope for that if
you are having a cheese giving all celebration with cheese
that it's lovely and happy and we're just very appreciative
of all of you for listening and being here with
us for listener over the years. Absolutely yeah, so may
(34:31):
many good cheese givings or whatever your equivalent is come
your way. Absolutely yes, and if you have any traditions
around around food and the holidays, you know we love
to hear about that. So if you would like to
write to us you can. Our email is Hello at
savirpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always dour super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening and we hope that lots
(35:11):
more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reeves and I'm Larned Vocal bumb and today
we have a classic episode for you about Brim.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I've had a huge craving for Brie already and then
you suggested this and I was like.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh yeah, yeah tis the season man.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's uh.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I had a really good baked brie, like like a
Brian cruit for as an appetizer for Thanksgiving, because that's
the sane thing to do before you have a whole
Thanksgiving meal. It's a tradition amongst my friends. So it's
a lovely tradition. I'm not mad about it. I'm just
saying like, oh yeah, let's begin this dinner with at
least three ounces of cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's a good.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Start, you know, wrapped in pastry with jam yeah into it.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Sounds so good. Is that why I saw on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah? Or I mean you know, like I was kind
of looking through looking through archives and trying to find
something that was like holiday appropriate, and I landed on Brie.
We did this episode originally in December of twenty eighteen,
so clearly it was on our minds then as being
a holiday kind of thing as well. You talk a
lot about in the episode about your cheese giving experience.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So good, I do. Yeah. I love how people adopted that.
Like listeners wrote in and were like, I heard she's
giving now yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I know. It's so great, dude,
spread the love of cheese and she's giving. But Bree
is definitely key in my cheese giving celebrations.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
You have to have it.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
But I will say the heating up of it and
making kind of a melty thing that was a newer
thing for me, and I do associated now with the holidays.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh fabulous. Yeah, just feels so decadent, it does right
right my heck, have you had a common beer experience
since this episode?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh no, okay, all right, it's I'm slacking. I need
to get you some common beer, are I believe?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Recent not recent Frequent writer Eric wrote in Recently that
our savor Fest feast is now going to be a
week long thing, and I was like, at least at
least at a minimum, or we're gonna have to spread
it out. We're gonna have to take time off work.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, we're gonna have to go to Asana yeah we are,
Yes we are, but yes, I very much will take
you up on that. Laurn excellent. All right, well, uh
well we have a whole episode for you about glorious cheese.
So so let's let former Ay and Lauren take it away.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Hello, and welcome to Savor.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm any Reas and I'm Lauren Vogel Bam, and today
we're talking about Bria.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
As in cheese.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, not my friend Brie or the actress Alison Brie. No,
neither of those.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But but yes, it is time. It is about time
we came back and did another cheese episode because Cheddar
was forever.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, I'd forgotten how long it had been. I think
I just eat so much cheese. I was like, well
this is covered.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I have a friend who probably every other
week we have some reason to eat cheese, like a
big amount, a large amount of cheese. We have apology cheese,
congratulations cheese. And last the week after Thanksgiving we did
cheese Giving and Bri. I always make sure there's Bree
(04:01):
because it's one of my main four cheeses that have
to be there for me to be happy, otherwise it
won't be complete.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I love all of your lists I'm a very.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
List forward person. Everything is part of a list. There's
a local cheesemaker, the Woodsman and Wife. They make one
of my favorite breeze. I mean it's bree like I
don't know if it's technically a breeze.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, we'll get into that in a second.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, but I'm not even sure it's like technically, oh,
a brie type a lowercase. It's called out of the ashes.
I think the the rind was grown ashes. They were
ashes around it. And it's so good. It's expensive, but
it's so good.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh, tally noted. I'll have to look for it.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, it's downstairs. Oh no, always tempting me. Also, there's
a wiki cheese. I didn't know that, but there's a
wiki cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Things that I didn't know. The word tuophile, it's the
word of the day. It's a one who loves cheese. Well,
we're both terrophile, Yes, we certainly are.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
But this brings us to our question bri What is it?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, bri is a category of soft ripened cheeses with
mold ripened rines, sometimes called bloomy rinds, meaning that their
texture is a semi ferm on the outside, like a
cheddar kind of but melty soft on the inside. Even
at room temperature. They're typically a white to straw yellow
on the inside and a mate white maybe with a
little bit of a kind of streaking or striping on
(05:34):
the outside. And you make bri. Well, there's a lot
of details that you can change around, but the basics
are this. You take milk, yeah, and add something to
help it coagulate to form up into kurds, because milk
is an emulsion of water and water soluble stuff mixed
evenly with little globules of fats and fat soluble stuff.
Because those globules naturally repel each other like a like
(05:57):
wee magnets in the water. Ah h yeah, you know
when you try to press two negative or two positive
vents for magnet together and you can't. It's like that,
but with these little fat globules. So to get milk
to stop being milk and start being cheese, you need
to convince the globules to stop propelling each other and
cling up a first, by changing the pH of the milk,
(06:20):
which will change the charge of the globules. You can
do this by adding an acid or in the case
of brie and many other cheeses, adding friendly bacteria that
eat the sugars in milk and poop lacked acid what bacteria,
or you can break off some of the molecules on
(06:41):
the edges of the globules that are making them repel.
And you can do this by adding enzymes that do
that whole breaking off thing. Rennet is a product made
up of such enzymes. It occurs naturally in the fourth
stomachs of young cows, goats, and sheep to help them
break down and process milk. Makes sense, but don't worry,
veget Rennet can also be made from lab farmed bacteria
(07:03):
poop or found in some plants like fake leaves.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I love the idea of just a farm somewhere growing
bacteria poop.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh yeah, there's lots of them. Industrially speaking, there's like
there's like a lot of those around, a lot of
the natural flavors that eat uh yeah, all sorts of
things are bacteria farmed. Anyway, back to bree cheese. So
you get your milk, you add lactic acid bacteria maybe
also rent it to it. You heat it to a
temperature at which the bacteria will thrive and the globules
(07:35):
will form up into these solid fat and protein curds.
When the curds are curdy enough, they're poured into disc
shaped molds designed to let the water in whatever water
soluble stuff is left drain off. That's called the whey
m Yes. When the discs are firm enough, they're salted
or washing a brine. Then it's time to age the
(07:56):
cheese and create that rind that we were talking about.
And the rind is formed by fungi, usually Penicillium candiatum,
Penicillium camemberte, or both, but other molds or yeasts can
be used. You probably add cultures of these fungi right
to the surface of the cheese, then set the disks
of cheese in a cool human place to age for
(08:16):
at least three weeks, during which the cheese dries out
more and the mold forms a protective rind over the surface.
All of this creates that texture that's that's velvety, soft
and oozy on the inside and sort of toothsome soft
on the outside, like a like like thick fudge sauce
surrounded by soft wax.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Hmm, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I'm sorry that sounds really gross. I promise bree is lovely.
If you've never had it. That's like the worst description
that I possibly could have.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
She's just trying to keep you away.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, brief for me that the flavor is milky and
grassy and a little bit savory, with notes like a
nuts or mushrooms, and cow milk is the most common
stuff to make out of, but goat milk or blends
can also be used.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And it turns out a lot of us may have
never had legitimate bris. To qualify as the real deal,
bris has to come from specific areas within ill de France.
Oh my accent game, I don't know what's going on.
And this is an area that surrounds Paris.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yes, the name comes from the historical region called bri
within modern day ill Defrance, roughly corresponding with modern day
help me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Out here, stan a moon.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh, I never would have gotten that. The reason that
many of us have not had legitimate breeze is not
that the French are like boguarding them or anything like that.
They're they're produced using unpasteurized milk, sometimes called raw milk,
and in the United States, a law set down almost
seventy years ago states that cheese made from raw milk
has to be aged at least sixty days, and bri
(09:57):
is aged less than that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
But a lot of manufacturers from other areas, cheese manufacturers
and other countries sell a product called briez. It's not
as strictly controlled as something like champagne.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, there are a lot of breeze style cheeses, including
from that same region.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, and when I was looking into this, I believe
you can even find Well, let's get into some legitimate
breeze and I'll come back to this point. Okay, okay, So,
of the so called legitimate breeze, there are a couple
of types.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And their fame might be influenced by their production region's
location in proximated pairs.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Might be, might be there's Breed de Mall, which is
the finest of French breeze.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Wheels of this cheese are made to be fourteen or
fifteen inches in diameter about two inches high. A combo
of lactic acid, bacteria and rennet helps curdle the milk,
and at the curd stage they are drained without adding
any weights to allow for moisture retention within the curd.
The wide, shallow shape, though the surface dry out pretty thoroughly.
(11:01):
The whole process takes about thirty minutes, and then they're
aged for about three weeks. It's said to feature notes
of mushrooms and almonds one day.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh yeah, it's a Paris field trip that we really
have to take.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That was like our first field trip and it still
hasn't happened. I don't know why our boss will not okay.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It we went to New Orleans. Isn't that close enough?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, we're already almost there.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Just come on.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But like I was gonna say, you can buy something
in the United States called breedom all and it actually
isn't that.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right because didn't someone copyright that name did here in
the States. It's so tricksy.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I know. We'll touch on that more in our history bit.
The second type of legitimate breeze is breed' melon, and.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
This uses just lactic acid bacteria to curdle the milk
from what I understand, which takes longer than a lactic
acid bacteria plus rennet. It takes about eighteen hours. They're
also aged for longer, like four to eight weeks, and
the wheels are made smaller, only ten or eleven inches
in diameter and like an inch and a half high.
The result of all of this is a firmer cheese.
(12:13):
It's less gooey, more gelled all the way through, and
has a thicker rind. The flavor is also less delicate,
with notes of salt, sour and barnyard, like your a
favorite or least favorite sour beer, as the case may.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Be, notes of barnyard. Then there are the illegitimate breed
Yeah scandal, I know. There is Brida montro blueberries, which
gets an injection into the rind to create a hybrid
between blue cheese and brie.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Or the discs can be sliced in half and a
layer of a Penicillium rockaforte or other blue mold can
be added before sandwiching and aging the discs. Other bree
types can sandwich other stuff in there by the way,
like a layer of mustard, which I want to try
so much now bre and mustard.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, there's bri noir, and this is the result of
a longer aging time. This kind of darker blacker rind
up to two years, and it produces bre with a
stronger flavor, a darker, drier cheese, and a darker rind.
In the area where bri noir is made, folks like
to dip it in their Cafe La for breakfast. Oh
(13:24):
that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
We're both just shaking our heads, just like we need
to go eat that immedium.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I mean, there's no question. Yeah, we have to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Although that could be sold in the US, you think,
Oh yeah, because aged for two.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Years, I for we were researching this episode the day
that of cheese giving and I went to a cheese
place like I've never had real bree my god, and
I had found all of these breeze that are like
the closest thing you could get in the US, and
they didn't have any of them. Oh no, now now
(13:59):
that I know, bri Noir could be here and it's
it wasn't at this cheese place and therefore not on
my cheese giving platter.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Oh, get a cheesemonger on the horn.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, we need a resident cheesemonger, you doo. He or
she would not be lacking for work.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
No, no, that'd be earning their money.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's true. There's also breeze with all kinds of coating,
of course, and aside from just stuffing it in your
face as it is, you can bake bree That's a
popular recipe. Or Brion cruits, which is pre encased in
pastry and then baked. It's great with fruit and honey.
And I know this is gonna grow some folks at
but one of my favorite recipes with brie is a
(14:41):
grilled sandwich with nutella, pumpkin butter and bri.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Oh that sounds delicious, It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I had a friend once and she was so grossed
out by it, and I convinced her, you gotta try
this a little bit. And she likes bree enough where
she came around. She loves it, and now she asked
me to make it all the time. And I'm like, look,
that has a special occasion sandwich. And I also don't
have new tell around because I can't trust myself around it.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So no, I feel you.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to make your own. I've
given you the tools and knowledge go forth on.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
One of my favorite grilled cheese offshoots is a grilled
bree and apple sandwich.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeaheah, that's a good one. Apparently, removing the tip from
brie if you cut it with wise when serving is
a faux pau called pointing the brieh really, yeah, because
I guess that's a very desired part.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Oh okay, So you're supposed to only get a little
bit of it in like a cross section. So if
you just take the whole thing, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's a big faux pat. And I saw someone do
it at cheese giving, and I resisted until later. Then
I was like, you know, I saw what you did
with the bree and she was very confused. But it's
the ratio of rind to cheese the best. Yeah. Also,
(16:06):
there are some super over ripe cheeses and they are
called dead and they're completely solidified.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh sure, I guess if it's all dried out. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
The rind, by the way, is totally edible and tasty,
So like, don't cut it away unless you genuinely dislike
the texture or the taste. And if you think you
dislike the texture, try it along with some of the
interior after letting your slice of bree come to room
temperature for at least half an hour or forty minutes.
It's a flavor and texture combo sensation that I think
(16:42):
is very nice too, And I hope you would agree.
The rind can, by the way, be sort of modeled
or cracked through with a little bit of brown or red.
That's also fine and totally safety.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
The first time I had bree it usually here in
the US it comes in those like real and then
it comes in the white plasticish wax paper type stock. Yeah,
and then you peel that away, and it usually kind
of sticks to the rind, And I thought that the
rind was like a part of the wrapping. It just
(17:15):
like attached itself to the so I was trying to
slice a saw and then I served it. People were like,
what is it? What happened to the breed? And since
a lot of us haven't had real brie, many cheesemongers
expressed disdain for this bland, boring thing that is American
(17:40):
bri and anger that this has led to a palette
that favors bland. Take this email from a New York cheesemonger.
There is real bri one percent, literally, and then there
is factory brie lowercase B ninety nine percent, day and night. Anyway,
one who chooses the bree found in the shittiest supermarkets,
(18:03):
the finest supermarkets, the cheekest food shops is making a
really bad choice. Dang, yeah, but I love it. My
Palette's not plannd.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I just like simple foods as well as complex ones. Yeah,
I like eating cheese. Okay, goodness, cheese. There's another question
we must answer here, Bree what it's not, and that
(18:36):
is canon Bear, because apparently there's a lot of confusion
around this, and I honestly can't tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I don't know what Camen bear. I've seen it.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It looks very similar, it tastes very similar, and in
my experience it tends to be a little bit more
flavorful than most American breeze that I found a little
bit more pungent.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So I should give canon Bear a shot.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Absolutely, I would say so.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I'm sure I've had it. I just can't pinpoint when
they are.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
They are very similar, but they are not the same.
For one, Camembert comes from a different region Normandy. It
isn't aged in big rines like brie, but small around
that entail a different ripening process. And this also means
it is covered in rind, whereas brie, which is slices
from a wheal, might not be. This impacts the ever
(19:24):
important rind to cheese ratio, and Bree has more fat.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Or it can that there are you can have double
or triple cream breeze which which brings us actually to nutrition.
Oh yes, nutrition will vary from brand to brand, and
even a little bit from wheal to wheel. But cheese
is calorie dense, y'all. It was made to preserve and
condense the nutrition in milk and breeze fatty. It has
(19:50):
about a quarter of your daily recommended intake of saturated fat.
But it also has a good amount of protein like
over a tenth of year recommended daily intake, plus a
smattering of vitamins and minerals. Riba flavor be twelve calcium
and phosphorus. And back to that double versus triple cream thing, Okay,
bree and kemembert generally both fall into the category of
(20:10):
double crem cheeses, which means that they're made so that
the dry matter of the finished product is sixty to
seventy five percent butter fat. Triple creams are made to
have over seventy five percent butter fat. And note here
that the word cream being in the descriptor of these
cheeses doesn't necessarily mean that they're more fattening than like
regular old cheddar or whatever. Like, yes, triple cream has
(20:33):
more fat than double cream, but both have more water
content than a dry aged cheese, so by weight, the
fat content is gonna be fairly comparable or maybe even
lower than dry aged cheeses. Remember that the serving size
for any cheese is going to top out at about
an ounce. Red labels your check online for information if
if this really matters to you, or you know, if
(20:56):
you can just let go and let God.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
To let cheese come to my mouth. Yes, I mean
one ounce. I shudder to think. What are cheese giving?
How many ounces that up to?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's a party, it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It's a giving of the cheeses.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yes, it's a celebration. You're allowed to have celebrations.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's true. Sometimes it is an offering of an apology.
It is many things.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Cheese.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Cheese is many things, too many of us. And speaking
of many of us, numbers for pre consumption are not
easy to come by. I can say for myself it's
quite high, probably for one person. So if anyone has
access to pre numbers, let us know.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, it's a wide category, it is. But but we
do have some history for you.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, but first.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
We have a quick break for premier sponsor.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Brie
has probably been around and kicking for a while.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
At least four hundred years, but its exact invention point
is difficult to pin.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Down, very difficult. But this is a cheese that is
rife with legends. Oh, there's a cheese pond there. There's
so many cheese punts to be made. Anyway, there's a
popular legend that tells of French Emperor Charlemagne falling in
love with a soft cheese while stopping over and roll
onbri Monastery, and he loved it. As he loved it,
(22:43):
his love of it spread throughout the land. It came
to be known as the King's cheese, and after the
French Revolution, the King of cheeses.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Ah, yes, I want to.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Cheese like royalty family trees so badly. Some people argue
that cheese charlemagne triad was Rockefort, but this is much disputed.
Heated cheese debates have ensued.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh that's that's my favorite kind of debate. Heated cheese debate.
I'd attend one of those.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I would too, I would too, and kind of related.
Let's set the scene a bit for this next part
is the nineteenth century eighteen fifteen, to be exact, the
Congress of Vienna. This is the party to be at
one of history's Fancius Schmancius Shindigs. Folks are Schmoosien Schmoosion,
(23:43):
powerful diplomats or dividing up nations. French diplomat and well
known connoisseur of all things food. Teleyrand gets the attention
of the room and he calls for a cheese tournament.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I like the cut of this guy's jib.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
He knew what was up. I guess it was to
ease the tension, or maybe he just wanted to talk cheese.
I don't know. The representative from England nominated Stilton, the
Dutch representative Limburger Switzerland Greare, and then Tallyrand nominates Brie
and the vote was cast. Sixty cheeses in all were nominated,
(24:23):
and Brie was declared Laurent de Fromage the key of Cheese.
Very dramatic. Indeed, I'm sure I hope there was a ceremony,
a nighting. I don't know. I hope they really did
it up.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I'm picturing a little crown.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah. Yeah, we both were like moved by the acuteness that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
We're both inappropriately emotionally touched by anyway.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, despite its royalty status, Brie was not just reserved
for nobility. Peasants ate it as well. Another story places
Breeze origins long before Charlemagne in the Middle East in
a saddle bag. And that might sound familiar because it's
the same story we told in the Cheddar episode. It's
sort of the origin story of cheese at large. Maybe
(25:12):
it was Brie, probably not, but definitely an ancestor.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Britomo is said to date to the Roman era. Hmm,
don't know about that yet.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Another legend, after King Henry the Fourth of England's wife,
Queen Margo, introduced him to Brie, he fell so in
love with it he chose it over dining with his wife,
the one who introduced him to it when given.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
The choice, harsh diss that is, I.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Mean, I love Brie. That was like the question they
asked of like if it's two people your friends.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, that's like a trolley problem. That's like the Lady
and the tiger. Goodness all right.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
However, Bree's history change when the Congress of and much
of what came out of that was abandoned and the
Franco Prussian War tore through the region where brie is made,
doing lasting damage to their dairy industry. On top of that,
industrialization pushed out the small creamries making bree to make
way for cheese factories and to add more salt to
(26:20):
the wound. These factories weren't even making bri. Brie was
being made in factories in a different region.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh yeah. Then in nineteen forty nine, skipping ahead a little,
a typhoid outbreak traced back to milk prompted that legislation
requiring milk and milk products to be pasteurized in the
United States.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And this kind of eliminated that the ogbrie of Charlemagne
that was unpasteurized and eaten before it had aged too long.
I mean, yep, probably none of us have had whatever
Charlemagne had and fell in love with ahlas Bree really
took off from the United States in the seventies and eighties,
both Brebri and this factory in name only Bri. And
(27:06):
then in nineteen eighty the French government, the queith Brix
with the Appalachian dogin controller, putting in place the standards
for legitimate bris. And then, yeah, concerned about all of
the potential bacteria in this imported brix. In nineteen eighty seven,
the FDA in the US re upped to the regulation
that all Jesus had to either be pasteurized or age
(27:27):
for sixty days. You can't really get the real thing,
the real deal in the United States. In fact, in
the seventies, a US importer trademarked Breedo MO so that
he could put that label on Jesus in the United
States that are not technically Breedo mo like we're tying
out earlier, you know. Tricky but enterprising.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
But as of twenty sixteen, the FDA said that they
would look into raw milk cheeses again, having heard a
lot of pushback from our and cheesemakers here in the States.
There's no word yet though on whether they will loosen
their standing.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
O FDA, if you listen, please get on that priority
of her life.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I mean, put a warning label on it if you
have to. But goodness, okay, we have research to do.
We've done a little bit of research already. We have
we have, and we're going to get into some of that.
But first we're going to get into one more quick
ad break for a word from our.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Sponsor and we're back.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Thank you. So I wanted to talk just a tiny
bit about whether or not that raw milk cheese law
is too restrictive. Okay, So I started to look into
this whole raw milk versus pasteurized milk thing, the whole
safety thing, especially when it comes to cheese and the
age of cheese is. It's a really big topic. It
(29:04):
could probably be an entire episode. Unto itself, I will
say that it's probably better for those of us who
are you know, compromised, or or have some other kind
of issue going on to avoid raw milk products that
have not an agent appropriate amount of time. But I
do want to say that those bacteria and molds that
(29:26):
I talked about being part of the making of Bree
Cheese at the top of the show, they're all non
toxic to humans. They are perfectly safe to eat. And furthermore,
they all help inhibit the growth of toxic bacteria and
molds in cheese.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
They're like superhero mold in bacteria.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
They are not all superheroes wear capes. Some of them
poop flavors in your cheese, in your cheese and beer,
remember that, And yogurt m h and sour dough bread, chocolate,
and pepperoni coffee.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The show from now on henceforth, we'll just be Laurena
and I listing, you know, I, like we said at
the top, I love a good list.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I think we found a true calling, which is just
listing food.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Just quietly and sadly saying food words into microphones. I'm
sure that there's an ASMR channel just for that. Y'all
write it and let us know. If you want that thing,
we can do it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Oh, clearly, clearly we can.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I have some other science though, about the texture of bri,
because I found some really cool articles about it and
I just wanted to share this with y'all. So, all right,
brie that is at the top of its game is
gonna bulge out of its rind at cool or room temperatures.
But it shouldn't actually be runnym hmm. Runny bree indicates
that it's over ripe and less than top quality. If
(30:50):
you find that bri you've just bought is runny, check
the cell by date and if you're within like a
week or so's window next time, maybe try a different
brand or buy it from a different store. It's still
safe to eat. I want you to have the best
bree experience possible.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
WE care about you. We do.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And what's happening here that creates this runniness is that
the lactic acid in the cheese is slowly breaking down
into water and carbon dioxide, making the cheese less acidic, right,
less acid less acidic, and that in turn makes the
calcium that's holding the protein structures of the cheese together
(31:28):
on hold. The calcium will migrate towards the surface of
the cheese, making the rind stiffer and the inside runnier.
That lower acidity can also change how proteins bond with
each other and trigger enzymes like rennet in the cheese
to start breaking down proteins again, both of which will
make the cheese runnier still. Meanwhile, another texture that can
(31:50):
happen in bri that has cool science behind it is
having an oozy layer right under the rind with then
a firmer center. This is called a cream line, and
it happens when the yeasts and the molds living in
the rind eat the lactic acid on the surface of
the cheese, breaking it down and causing increasing ooziness. Again,
this is totally okay to eat. But also again, if
(32:13):
the cream line is like super runny, in the inside
of the cheese is like chalky. Almost again, the cheese
is probably over ripe, less less than perfect.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Less than perfect. If that's not a band, it should
be less than Jake adjacent.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Ooh, lesson Jake cover band. That's what I never wanted.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I don't know what you're talking about. That's an instant hit,
classic music.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
It also translates well into my next point. A little
bit of ammonia smell is natural. Oh yeah, sorry, less
than Jake. I didn't mean that about you. I've never
met you. I'm sure you smell fine. No, inbree cheese,
a little bit of ammonia smell is natural. It's also
the result of those surface fungi, although again too much
probably means the cheese is a little bit old. However,
(33:04):
there is an important footnote to all of this. Different
cheesemakers may have different goals in mind for their products.
If you're in doubt or just curious, talk to the
cheesemaker or a cheesemonger about how a particular cheese is
meant to look and feel.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yes, we can't recommend enough conversations with cheesemongers.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh yeah, Oh, if any of y'all are a cheese monk,
let us know, like, let us know if we can
have you on call, except maybe give us like a
Google Voice number or something, because you don't want us
to really have your cell phone number. We would be
really obnoxious.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
It would be like three p fifty eight am and
then emergency breed question. That's what it would be. Just
so you're we're clear on like the job description. Yeah,
m I love all of this science. Like my next
cheese giving, I'm just gonna take a minute and be
grateful for all the science.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, for all the microbes, all the lactic acid, the
real here.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.
We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed
doing it and rerunning it. We hope for that if
you are having a cheese giving all celebration with cheese
that it's lovely and happy and we're just very appreciative
of all of you for listening and being here with
us for listener over the years. Absolutely yeah, so may
(34:31):
many good cheese givings or whatever your equivalent is come
your way. Absolutely yes, and if you have any traditions
around around food and the holidays, you know we love
to hear about that. So if you would like to
write to us you can. Our email is Hello at
savirpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always dour super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening and we hope that lots
(35:11):
more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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