January 27, 2024 • 36 mins
This lightly fermented drink is often made tangy-sweet with pineapple skin, core, and fruit. Anney and Lauren dip into the science and history of tepache.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm one vocal bum and today we have
an episode for you about tapach. Yes fun with pronunciation,
at least for me. Yeah, I did not know what
this was and I actually had to go back and
revise because I started researching it. I was like, okay, okay,
(00:31):
and then I continued researching it and I was like no, oh, okay, no, no,
it all worked out in the end.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, okay, I'm pretty sure that our friend of podcast,
Julia Skinner, has served some to you at some point
in your life. She is a big fan of this beverage.
I even like, I don't recall this. She's given us
a lot of things because she's wonderful that way. Yes, yeah,
I'm kind of human. You You you go to her
(01:02):
house and she just starts pouring you little bits of
and giving you little snacks of all of the wild
things that she is fermenting. That's a that's a yeast
pun right there. But yeah, many more to come.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yes, I believe I faintly remember that, but I didn't
connect the name with the drink. But yes, she is
wonderful and even before you had mentioned that. I was like,
I bet this sounds like Julia has done this, has
made this, wrote about it.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yes, yes absolutely she She does
have a recipe for it in her book Our Fermented Lives,
which we which we had her on the show to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yes, yes we did. It's a great book. Was there
any reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I kind of thought it might be like a version
because I had timidly suggested kombucha.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Maybe you were like, no, yeah, maybe that was it.
Maybe yeah, Well I was a searching for in my
rotation of topics, I was looking for a drink to
talk about, and uh yeah, I'm not sure if it
was on our list or if I was just you're like,
oh that one.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Sometimes topics just yeah, they just happened, you know. Maybe
there was a kombucha seed in there though maybe maybe.
I don't know, but it was just very funny because
you were like a drink, I'm thinking about a drink
and I was like kombucha and you were like.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
No, absolutely not, No, I'm not going to be an ambitious.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I will say I was talking about with the mutual
friend Lyle I got to hang out with him the
other day, and I was talking about teach a Maratah,
We're gonna talk about chicha. But it was just interesting.
Sometimes a lot of times you listeners write in about
this and you're like, wow, what are the odds you
were talking about this.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
While I was making it. Well, there you go.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
It happens to us too.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And it's glorious when it does. But okay. You can
also see our episodes on pineapple various kinds of sugar, cinnamon,
beers and wines, maybe kafir h.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I don't know, all kinds of thing, yeah, kinds of
h Yeah, well, I guess that a ser question does
topach What is it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well? Tapache is a type of beverage made from pineapple scraps,
unrefined cane, sugar and water, lightly fermented and then strained,
resulting in a sweet, tart, tangy, and bubbly drink served.
It often has like a very low, like negligible alcohol content,
but it can be made to be more alcoholic as well,
or used in like a cocktail for a boozy punch.
(04:11):
I've never had it because by the time I realized
that it existed, I realized I had also realized that
I shouldn't eat pineapple, and I'm not positive that it
would set me off, But you know, I've just never
had a day where I was like, you know what,
I want to mess around and find out about Papache,
Like I have time for potential gastro upset. That sounds
(04:33):
like a good way to spend my day. So what
I'm saying is that I'm given to understand that Apache
is just so refreshing, like bright and fruity, not too sugary,
with that little zing of carbonation and a little bit
of tang or funk of ferment. You can also add
any kind of spices you want, often something warming like
(04:54):
cinnamon or allspice or other fruit too for a personal flare.
You don't even have to make it with pineapple. More
on that later. It is often made at home or
by small shops or street vendors in small batches, though
it's beginning to be produced commercially as well. It's just
a really simple, rewarding homebrew that also uses up parts
(05:16):
of a whole pineapple that would otherwise go to waste.
It's like an actual pineapple soda. Yeah, It's like it's
like on a hot day when you first dip your
toe into a cool swimming pool or stream and you're like, oh,
that is cold. But then pretty immediately you're like, oh
(05:39):
that is so nice.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah like that, I love that feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, right, refreshment, yes, but okay, let's go through those ingredients,
all right. Pineapple, in case you just got to here.
By here, I mean earth, is a lovely, juicy, tangy
sweet fruit with a thick, sort of leathery, vaguely spiky,
(06:05):
definitely inedible skin and a core that is technically edible,
but so fibrous that it can cause balls of fiber
to build up in your digestive tract, which nobody wants.
So Tapacha uses these things. You just cut them up.
You can also use the fruit if you want to,
for like an extra kick of flavor up to you water.
(06:29):
I feel like this is self explanatory for a beverage. Yeah,
good ingredient for a beverage. Love it, uh huh. Unrefined
cane sugar okay, so kind of going off our recent
episode about golden syrup. If you just boil down cane
juice without refining it, you'll wind up with this like thick,
(06:51):
sweet caramelized paste that'll cool into a solid block, sort
of like solidified brown sugar. Okay, modernly in Mexico where
tapate is from, it's sold in these solid cones called piloncillos,
like brown sugar. It can range from light in color
(07:12):
and flavor to like really rich and sort of bitter
and mineral into pach. This is going to give you
some depth of flavor and also help fuel the fermentation
process because the final main ingredient here is wild bacteria
and yeasts. You do not have to add them. They
occur naturally on the skin of pineapple and other fruits
(07:33):
and in the air around us. They live comfortably in water,
and we'll eat some of the sugars and the fruit
and the sugar that you've added and poop carbon dioxide, bubbles,
a little bit of alcohol and flavors, bacteria and yeas fool. Yeah,
So the final flavor of your tapache is going to
(07:55):
be individual to your area, to your kitchen, to your batch.
I mean, like it's a good bet that you're going
to wind up with a lot of lactococcus and sacaro
mices in there. You know, things that we commonly talk
about as being helpful bacteria and yeasts in the production
of everything from yogurt to beer, because they not only
(08:18):
produce stuff like flavors and alcohol that we like, but
they also help crowd out and kill off potentially harmful microbes,
frequently with those flavors themselves. Anyway, Yeah, it's just not
going to be as standardized as anything that you ferment
using a mother or a scobie or a kaffir grains. Yeah,
(08:39):
of course, in commercialized production, I'm guessing they probably use
something a little more standardized, but they haven't consulted me,
so I can't tell you for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I know right what's going on there.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But yeah, okay, aside from aside from those basic things,
you can add other choppeds like apples or oranges or
tamarind or mango, spices like cinnamon or alspice or ginger,
or cloves or peppercorns or a nise. You can serve
it with a chili pepper rim if you want to.
That sounds delicious and I would never stop you. But yeah,
(09:18):
if you buy some from vendors in like different parts
of Mexico and Central America, you might get a version
that doesn't contain pineapple at all, but rather corn or
cactus fruit or whatever fruit is in season. Pineapple is
perhaps the most popular iteration, but it's not like a
necessary ingredient. Yeah right, yes, if you're gonna make it
(09:43):
at home, you really only need the skin and core
of a pineapple, a little bit of sugar, and enough
water to cover them both in a food safe container.
You know you like stir it to dissolve the sugar,
but yeah, just cover it loosely with a dishcloth to
keep out bugs, and in a couple of days have nice,
bubbly tapache. In about a week, it'll be alcoholic. You
(10:05):
can strain it and then store it in your fridge
for a couple months.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh wow, hmm, I want to do it. I want
to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It is apparently so easy. I have not tried it yet,
but I'm like, I could try this with a different fruit.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, opportunities abound.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have so many jars, you guys, they're just asking
to be used.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Lauren, Come on, you need it for your rec room
where I'm going to play my Star Wars toy game
that I told you about last night. I need you?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Do you do? Yes? Oh god? Sure?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Alcoholic to passion would only help.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Y'all if I have not mentioned mentioned it before. The
home that I have purchased and is still a heck
and wreck. It's a fixer upper. Pardon me, pardon me.
House has a wreck room that is wood paneled, and
I am unironically excited about it, like secretly, I am
(11:10):
just a Midwestern dad and this is it makes me
so happy. I am gonna play Super Nintendo in that
wreck room and it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh my gosh, it is gonna be great, very happy
about this for you and for me.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Anyway. Tapache Okay. Tapache is often made at home or
purchased from a street cart like ladled straight from a
croc or a barrel, or maybe served in like a
little individual plastic bag that's sealed up tight and has
a straw stuck in it. Yeah, but but these days, right,
you can find commercial versions outside of the local area
as well, and it can be consumed as is or
(11:53):
mixed with other juices or with like a beer or
liquor if you want to.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, yep, Well, what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
That depends on exactly how you make it, But generally speaking,
it's not super sugary. It will probably contain some like
good micro nutrients and various other compounds that have positive
effects in your body. If it is a treat, if
it is a little bit sugary, sugar is a treat.
Treats are nice. Try not to get too many calories
(12:24):
from from beverages eat food. I think that's the first time.
Is that the first time I've ever had to say that.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't know. We've been here for a minute. We have,
that's the first time. It's impressive.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Oh yeah, our seven year anniversary is coming up. I know,
I thought it was something less than that. Huh.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
We've been kicking around for a while, Lauren. Yes, well
we have number for you.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We have one single set of numbers. Okay. So, because
has this tends to be a very locally produced kind
of product, there aren't really global production numbers or anything
like that to report upon. But as I was reading
some of the excellent research going into the microbiome of tapach,
(13:23):
which there is a bunch of now, which is so exciting. Yeah,
this one paper that was published in July of twenty
twenty two that profiled the genes of microbes growing in
this batch of tapache that they made over the course
of a seventy two hour period the study, they found
yeasts from to Phila thirteen classes, eighteen orders, twenty five
(13:46):
families and forty one genera, and then bacteria from nine
Fila twenty four classes, thirty eight orders, seventy one families,
and one hundred and five genera, And like it changed
over time, like really dramatically, which is I mean a
(14:07):
common occurrence, but so cool. The researchers referred to this
as the ecosystem of Mexican depace. Oh that is cool, Yeah,
very cool. I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yes, well, we have quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We do. We do, and we are going to get
into that after we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, So yes. A fermentation, often largely accidental in the
early days, is one of the world's oldest practices used
by humans. Accidents learn not when it comes to food
and drink.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yes, The aforementioned Julia Skinner writes in her book Our
Fermented Lives that Apache's roots go back, you know, like
twenty thousand years, because you know, cultures in the area
like by which I mean central Mexico into Central America.
(15:27):
Cultures in the area, like cultures pretty much everywhere, learned
that if you put fruit or other vegetation in water,
it will ferment all on its own. We know today
that that's because of wild bacteria and yeasts that live
on the skin of most vegetation and in the air
around us. And people then learned to help the process along.
(15:48):
And yeah, again like this has been going on for
quite a long time. We figured out fermentation before we
figured out the wheel. Yep, yep. Old.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But yes, to pache, which is a product of such fermentation,
goes back to pre Columbian Mexico, that area and cultures
like the Maya.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, the Maya and the Noah. Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It is just one of many fermented beverages from the
region and the time, most of which have very little
historical documentation, if any at all. But one of the
important ones that often comes up when you're talking about
this is Chicha. So Chicha historians believe that it goes
back to three thousand BCE, when people's in Central and
(16:39):
South America would chew corn into a pulp and their'sliva
would transform the mash into sugars. Essentially like I'm really,
I'm really making this a much shorter explanation, I guess,
and chewing corn is a pretty common way to make
it easier to work with it. So then people would
(17:01):
put the chewed corn in a container where it would
be exposed bacteria or yeast in the air, and within
as little as a handful of hours. Perhaps they had
an alcoholic beverage that could be boiled and sterilized, and
this drink was highly prized and may have even been
used in ceremonies. However, the Spanish did not approve of
(17:21):
it when they arrived in the fifteen hundreds, and its
popularity fell in a lot of places. However, it remained
as staple in Colombia, and vendors stands called chicheriez serving
the drink acted as both bars and communal spaces in
the eighteen hundreds, and from what I read, there were
hundreds in Bogata alone. So popular, but this changed after
(17:46):
a law requiring that fermented drinks be industrially produced and
packaged in glass that was passed in Colombia nineteen forty eight.
Lawmakers blamed chicha for a lack of hygiene, violence, and
a pseudo scientific condition that some claims was worse than alcoholism,
termed cheese mo chicha. Yes, Chicho was largely supplanted by beer,
(18:12):
and this is part of a push to erase the
past of this country, of this area and modernized.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, the chichiese mall thing reminds me of the panic
about absinthe that occurred, yes, over in France. But yeah, yeah, okay,
but to pache To pache at first was primarily composed
of crushed corn fermented in clay pots.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Corn is native to central Mexico. That is also an
ambitious episode we have put off for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
We just I think we have to divide it into
like dent corn versus sweet corn. But yes, two are
very closely related anyway. Okay, yeah, yes, it's going to
be a thing. Yeah, but it's gonna be it's gonna
be a whole thing. It's going to be whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But historians suspect peoples in this region were drinking tapace
by like the thirteen hundreds to fifteen hundred CE. To
Pach's components changed when colonizers introduced pineapple, which produced a
sweeter flavor when it was added to the mash, and
eventually pineapple went on to largely replace corn when it
came to tapace. But like you said, Lauren, there were
(19:25):
a bunch of different variations.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Though the word tapace itself shows
the beverages history with corn that there are a few
theories about where exactly it comes from, but generally it
seemed a historians seem to agree that it comes from
the novel out words for like tender corn drink and
also for stone ground, like there's influence from a couple
(19:48):
in there. So yeah, it's a stone ground corn drink.
There you go, it makes sense. Side note here, researchers
also kind of like to argue about whether pineapp was
in fact present in what's now central Mexico and down
into the Maya region prior to colonization. From what I understand,
(20:10):
it seems more likely that the colonizers did indeed bring
pineapple in from the Caribbean or maybe South America, like
pretty early on in the late fourteen to early fifteen hundreds,
and that it just really spread fast that it became
commonplace across the area within one hundred years, to the
(20:32):
point that the Spanish then started spreading that local pineapple
to other places in the world by the end of
the fifteen hundreds, so super quick. But it's kind of
it's kind of you know, Histori's mysteries. Yeah, yeah, Okay. However,
because cinnamon, and specifically ceylon cinnamon was definitely introduced by
(20:56):
the Spanish as a trade product in Mexico the mid
fifteen hundreds where it really caught on and apparently Mexico
today is the world's largest consumer of celon cinnamon. Huh yeah, huh.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Well, like pretty much everything we talk about, tapace is
no different. People started experimenting based on taste and local ingredients,
adding in botanicals, herbs, and spices like salon cinnamon. A
lot of these recipes were handed down through the generations
in indigenous communities, and this is one of the reasons
I think.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Numbers are difficult. As you said, was it for.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
A long time, It has been you make it in
your home or you buy it from a local vendor,
like yeah, that's where you get it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally, but okay. So part of the partially
enforced and partially voluntary cultural shift that occurred both during
several waves of colonization in Mexico and Central America, and
then later through through industrialization and globalization, was the introduction
(22:04):
of other and perhaps competing beverages like beers and sodas.
I've read that SODA's, especially starting in the nineteen fifties,
cut into and even i've read the word endangered the
consumption and production of traditional beverages like tapach. Like there
(22:24):
are fewer places that specialize only into pach to pata
villas in Mexico City today than there were in prior generations,
but it is still a popular product and still from
what I understand, very nostalgic for a lot of people,
you know, like for what their grandma brewed in her
kitchen or what they got from like a particular vendor
(22:45):
when they went walking with their parents.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, and I just realized I really never explained, but
chichi marada is purple corn drink. Oh, yes, very popular
in Peru. And when I was in Peru, everybody there
was like, teacher, marada, here's where we're going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
To get it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So that is how I found it. People had like
their specific vendors. I liked, we have to get this here,
so very similar vibe tipach is experiencing a bit of
a glow up in the US right now, both as
a health food and as a cocktail ingredient. Dita Kaye
looked up I Guess that's right launched in twenty Thank
(23:29):
You Lauren launched in twenty twenty, selling a variety of
flavored canned tapach. In June twenty twenty three, Tipach Saison
launched the first commercially produced alcoholic tapach, also called Tipach Saison.
All of this has caused some to worry that the
(23:51):
culture and history behind the beverage will be lost. There's
a lot of comparisons to kombucha and that the wrong
people will will be making money off of it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but both of those brands are run by people
who are connected to and who are also directly working
with local communities. But you know, like, is that going
to be the case in the future, because right, yeah, like,
is it going to turn into another kombucha or another
kafir where the people profiting from it will have no
(24:21):
connection to or maybe even no idea where it's from, right.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Right, especially because again, it has so long been like
something you make your grandma makes at home, ork, Like
it's something you get from the vendors.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So it's and also something that like that, like wealthy
Europeans looked down on. Right.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, I felt weird because I was like, oh,
where can I get it? I was like, wait, I
have to make sure it's that I'm doing. I'm not
doing the thing, not doing har Yeah, that's just what
happens in a lot of the episodes. We talk about
something we have to grapple with. But I do want
(25:04):
I feel like you're right, and I did have it
with Julia that I would like to have it again
now that I know what it is in mystery of it.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna read up on like
what other fruits, yeah, are like a good substitute. Yeah,
and use one of those heck in jars. You know
I might.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, you use those jars. I might make this. I
feel like I could.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I feel like you could too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh yeah, I have a ton of pineapple frozen, but
not the part that I need.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Blast. You're just gonna have to go buy a pineapple.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh oh, dear dear, I have such a nerdy thing
that's about to happen, Lauren. If I may indulge in
this particularly yes, So listen. You might not know this,
but I had a huge cress on Ryan Gosling when
I was a kid in the show Young Hercules. Okay,
(26:07):
and this show has never been available to buy for me,
but through some successful searches and bidding, I now have
the DVDs of Young Hercules.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And me and my friend were like planning because we
would watch it together. We're planning a themed menu, of course,
and one of the things on there, she was like,
you should make ambrosia, which for me is basically just
pineapple and juice. So now I'm like, maybe I could
work this in somehow.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, go go get your fresh pineapple, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, then I take the ambrosia.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Take the fruit, you know, brewier tapach.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Oh it's gonna be good. So excited it. That's that's amazing.
And I would say, given the fact that you ran
a D and D game for me and several of
our other co workers last night, that's not like the
most nerdy thing I've ever heard of you doing. No, No,
(27:18):
but it's up there.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's embarrassing because I like wrote a fan letter that
I hope he never read. I was nine years old
and I like dotted the eyes with her. It was fine,
but like, oh, come on, it's adorable. Oh no, I'm blushing. Wow,
it was. This is a timely episode for me, is
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, that's great. I'm I'm I'm here for you. I'm
here for you in this moment, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I appreciate that. Well.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
If you have any fan letters that you want to
tell us about having written to someone else really embarrassingly, yes,
if you have a personal memory of depach or anything else,
we would love, we would love to hear from you.
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
(28:10):
as we get back from one more quick break for
word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with school SpongeBob. Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, I show.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
No idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I love it. That's another. That's another one that's been
on the list for a long time. One Day, One day, Okay,
John wrote loved the recent episode on dim Sum and
just had to chime in. Growing up, Chinese food was
a staple for my family, and in fact, my mother
(29:03):
worked at one restaurant for several years while I was
a child, Dumplings aka potstickers were always a favorite treat,
but something that had eluded me for a long time
was the fabled jiaolongboo or soup dumplings. Maybe I'm misremembering,
but when Bruce Lee is giving his famous bee like
water speech and enter the Dragon, he does so while
(29:24):
eating jiaolongboo, demonstrating how to properly tear open a corner
of the dumpling to let the soup in actuality a
neat aspect or gelatin that melts from the steaming process
fill your spoon and prevent you from burning your mouth.
It wouldn't be till my wife and I honeymooned in
California that the stream was made of reality. We went
(29:45):
to a lovely little dim sum restaurant in San Francisco
right when they opened, and took time to savor our
tasty treat, accompanied by delightful chrysanthemum tea. Of all the
things we tried, the phoenix talons, fried and marinated chicken
fee we're the hardest to swallow. We gave it a
daring China nibvel, but the texture defeated it. Still, it's
(30:07):
been a happy memory for us, and it's nice to
know that there are some places nearby in Atlanta that
served dim sum, even if it's without the cute little carts.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Oh yeah, now there's a there's plenty of dim sum
around Atlanta. Yes, oh yes, yeah, I tended to go
to Canton House, but that's just like my basic that's
like the one that I was introduced to first. So yeah, yeah,
there's a bunch of them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
We have kind of like twenty minutes outside of the
heart of Atlantic, kind of a Chinatown, a China market area,
and it has a lot of restaurants here there. But yeah, yeah,
I love this. I recently ordered a bunch of soup
dumplings now because after you told me how to eat them,
I was like, well, now I've got to try. I've
done it right this whole time, so I'm very excited.
(30:59):
I think they're coming tomorrow. Oh oh fine, I will
report back on that.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
It is funny about the the chicken feet. I ate
that a lot in when I was in China.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh yeah, because it was kind of just sold like I.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Don't know, like how in the US we sell candy
bars when you're checking out.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It was sort of just kind of everywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, and especially when I first got there and I realized, like,
oh my Mandarin is not very good. Nothing's in English.
I'll just I see this thing, I'll buy it. So
I really liked it, but it took My friends were like,
it is work to get some of the meat. It's
one of those things you get a yeah, it's effort.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, and it is a lot of a lot of
skin and kind of like a little bit of fat.
I find it very chewy, which can be a difficult
texture sometimes, especially if it's combined with a flavor that
you're not expecting to get from chewy. But uh, it's
not a thing that I order. But I certainly wouldn't
(31:58):
turn my nose bad. If someone was like, here, try this,
I would be like.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Of course, yeah, yeah, pretty good. Yeah, I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I love these memories.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I'm also someone who has like the memories associated with
entertainment where I'm like, well remember and that scene where
they hate this? Yes, so I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Oh, Jill wrote Happy New Year. Mold wine is one
of my favorite festive drinks. I first had it during
bonfire night celebrations in England, where it's all about burning
guy fox and effigy and shooting off fireworks. Me and
a couple of my friends walked up one of Durham's
many hills to watch the fireworks, since many of the
different colleges had their own celebrations and we could see
(32:42):
all the different shows from that vantage point. As it
was November in England, the night was quite cold and rainy,
and we had to press together to share warmth, a
far cry from warm summer night fireworks for the Fourth
of July. The only thing that made it bearable was
the glug my finish friend made and kept in a thermos.
The common of hot wine, warm spices, citrus and whiskey
(33:03):
was all we needed. Since then, I've tried and loved
many variations of muld wine, including the hippocris you mentioned.
The long pepper and greens of paradise really make it special,
floral and more fiery than regular black peppercorns. One of
my friends even sent me some mold wine tea this Christmas,
and I'll have to report back on the flavor. Lauren.
I think you'll really like a chada. A chada is
(33:26):
pickled green papaya with other vegetables like carrots. Some recipes
even call for reasons it's sweet and vinegary and plays
well with all proteins. However, my favorite application is with
Crispy Fried pork Belly Lynch and Kohally or even the
Adobo sa scene that I wrote about a while back.
There's always a jar of it in my fridge. I've
(33:47):
never made it myself, but maybe I'll have a go,
and then links a recipe and says please enjoy. Yes, yeah, yeah,
so this is a this is a Filipino dish. And
we're lucky in Atlanta to have had this relatively recent
influx of like very popular, very good Filipino restaurants. Yeah,
(34:09):
a few of them, like during the pandemic, moved from
being like pop up situations to having their own storefronts.
And one of them just got a nod uh Esterltha
just got a nod from from Heck and Michelin guide
uh so has offered them delicious food. Oh I he
can love Filipino food.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Me too. I believe it was Joe that sends in
a recipe that I make to this day. Oh yeah, yeah,
so good. They like a dobo like where it melts
with the rice.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Oxtail, It was oxtail. That's how I make it.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh okay, all right, yes, oh heck yeah. And mulled wine.
Oh right right, how delightful, how nice on a cold night.
And I agree with you about long pepper. I love
a long pepper. One of y'all sent in a jar once. Yes,
and it's so good I'd never had it before.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yes, that is true. Oh, you listeners are the best.
You are. You introduced us to so much. You send
us stuff never required but always know. Yeah, so thank you,
and please do report back about this tea.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I'm intrigued absolutely yes.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well in the meantime, thanks to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savre is production of iHeartRadio four more
podcasts from my Heart Radio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm one vocal bum and today we have
an episode for you about tapach. Yes fun with pronunciation,
at least for me. Yeah, I did not know what
this was and I actually had to go back and
revise because I started researching it. I was like, okay, okay,
(00:31):
and then I continued researching it and I was like no, oh, okay, no, no,
it all worked out in the end.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, okay, I'm pretty sure that our friend of podcast,
Julia Skinner, has served some to you at some point
in your life. She is a big fan of this beverage.
I even like, I don't recall this. She's given us
a lot of things because she's wonderful that way. Yes, yeah,
I'm kind of human. You You you go to her
(01:02):
house and she just starts pouring you little bits of
and giving you little snacks of all of the wild
things that she is fermenting. That's a that's a yeast
pun right there. But yeah, many more to come.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yes, I believe I faintly remember that, but I didn't
connect the name with the drink. But yes, she is
wonderful and even before you had mentioned that. I was like,
I bet this sounds like Julia has done this, has
made this, wrote about it.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yes, yes absolutely she She does
have a recipe for it in her book Our Fermented Lives,
which we which we had her on the show to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yes, yes we did. It's a great book. Was there
any reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I kind of thought it might be like a version
because I had timidly suggested kombucha.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Maybe you were like, no, yeah, maybe that was it.
Maybe yeah, Well I was a searching for in my
rotation of topics, I was looking for a drink to
talk about, and uh yeah, I'm not sure if it
was on our list or if I was just you're like,
oh that one.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Sometimes topics just yeah, they just happened, you know. Maybe
there was a kombucha seed in there though maybe maybe.
I don't know, but it was just very funny because
you were like a drink, I'm thinking about a drink
and I was like kombucha and you were like.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
No, absolutely not, No, I'm not going to be an ambitious.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I will say I was talking about with the mutual
friend Lyle I got to hang out with him the
other day, and I was talking about teach a Maratah,
We're gonna talk about chicha. But it was just interesting.
Sometimes a lot of times you listeners write in about
this and you're like, wow, what are the odds you
were talking about this.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
While I was making it. Well, there you go.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
It happens to us too.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And it's glorious when it does. But okay. You can
also see our episodes on pineapple various kinds of sugar, cinnamon,
beers and wines, maybe kafir h.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I don't know, all kinds of thing, yeah, kinds of
h Yeah, well, I guess that a ser question does
topach What is it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well? Tapache is a type of beverage made from pineapple scraps,
unrefined cane, sugar and water, lightly fermented and then strained,
resulting in a sweet, tart, tangy, and bubbly drink served.
It often has like a very low, like negligible alcohol content,
but it can be made to be more alcoholic as well,
or used in like a cocktail for a boozy punch.
(04:11):
I've never had it because by the time I realized
that it existed, I realized I had also realized that
I shouldn't eat pineapple, and I'm not positive that it
would set me off, But you know, I've just never
had a day where I was like, you know what,
I want to mess around and find out about Papache,
Like I have time for potential gastro upset. That sounds
(04:33):
like a good way to spend my day. So what
I'm saying is that I'm given to understand that Apache
is just so refreshing, like bright and fruity, not too sugary,
with that little zing of carbonation and a little bit
of tang or funk of ferment. You can also add
any kind of spices you want, often something warming like
(04:54):
cinnamon or allspice or other fruit too for a personal flare.
You don't even have to make it with pineapple. More
on that later. It is often made at home or
by small shops or street vendors in small batches, though
it's beginning to be produced commercially as well. It's just
a really simple, rewarding homebrew that also uses up parts
(05:16):
of a whole pineapple that would otherwise go to waste.
It's like an actual pineapple soda. Yeah, It's like it's
like on a hot day when you first dip your
toe into a cool swimming pool or stream and you're like, oh,
that is cold. But then pretty immediately you're like, oh
(05:39):
that is so nice.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah like that, I love that feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, right, refreshment, yes, but okay, let's go through those ingredients,
all right. Pineapple, in case you just got to here.
By here, I mean earth, is a lovely, juicy, tangy
sweet fruit with a thick, sort of leathery, vaguely spiky,
(06:05):
definitely inedible skin and a core that is technically edible,
but so fibrous that it can cause balls of fiber
to build up in your digestive tract, which nobody wants.
So Tapacha uses these things. You just cut them up.
You can also use the fruit if you want to,
for like an extra kick of flavor up to you water.
(06:29):
I feel like this is self explanatory for a beverage. Yeah,
good ingredient for a beverage. Love it, uh huh. Unrefined
cane sugar okay, so kind of going off our recent
episode about golden syrup. If you just boil down cane
juice without refining it, you'll wind up with this like thick,
(06:51):
sweet caramelized paste that'll cool into a solid block, sort
of like solidified brown sugar. Okay, modernly in Mexico where
tapate is from, it's sold in these solid cones called piloncillos,
like brown sugar. It can range from light in color
(07:12):
and flavor to like really rich and sort of bitter
and mineral into pach. This is going to give you
some depth of flavor and also help fuel the fermentation
process because the final main ingredient here is wild bacteria
and yeasts. You do not have to add them. They
occur naturally on the skin of pineapple and other fruits
(07:33):
and in the air around us. They live comfortably in water,
and we'll eat some of the sugars and the fruit
and the sugar that you've added and poop carbon dioxide, bubbles,
a little bit of alcohol and flavors, bacteria and yeas fool. Yeah,
So the final flavor of your tapache is going to
(07:55):
be individual to your area, to your kitchen, to your batch.
I mean, like it's a good bet that you're going
to wind up with a lot of lactococcus and sacaro
mices in there. You know, things that we commonly talk
about as being helpful bacteria and yeasts in the production
of everything from yogurt to beer, because they not only
(08:18):
produce stuff like flavors and alcohol that we like, but
they also help crowd out and kill off potentially harmful microbes,
frequently with those flavors themselves. Anyway, Yeah, it's just not
going to be as standardized as anything that you ferment
using a mother or a scobie or a kaffir grains. Yeah,
(08:39):
of course, in commercialized production, I'm guessing they probably use
something a little more standardized, but they haven't consulted me,
so I can't tell you for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I know right what's going on there.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But yeah, okay, aside from aside from those basic things,
you can add other choppeds like apples or oranges or
tamarind or mango, spices like cinnamon or alspice or ginger,
or cloves or peppercorns or a nise. You can serve
it with a chili pepper rim if you want to.
That sounds delicious and I would never stop you. But yeah,
(09:18):
if you buy some from vendors in like different parts
of Mexico and Central America, you might get a version
that doesn't contain pineapple at all, but rather corn or
cactus fruit or whatever fruit is in season. Pineapple is
perhaps the most popular iteration, but it's not like a
necessary ingredient. Yeah right, yes, if you're gonna make it
(09:43):
at home, you really only need the skin and core
of a pineapple, a little bit of sugar, and enough
water to cover them both in a food safe container.
You know you like stir it to dissolve the sugar,
but yeah, just cover it loosely with a dishcloth to
keep out bugs, and in a couple of days have nice,
bubbly tapache. In about a week, it'll be alcoholic. You
(10:05):
can strain it and then store it in your fridge
for a couple months.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh wow, hmm, I want to do it. I want
to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It is apparently so easy. I have not tried it yet,
but I'm like, I could try this with a different fruit.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, opportunities abound.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have so many jars, you guys, they're just asking
to be used.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Lauren, Come on, you need it for your rec room
where I'm going to play my Star Wars toy game
that I told you about last night. I need you?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Do you do? Yes? Oh god? Sure?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Alcoholic to passion would only help.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Y'all if I have not mentioned mentioned it before. The
home that I have purchased and is still a heck
and wreck. It's a fixer upper. Pardon me, pardon me.
House has a wreck room that is wood paneled, and
I am unironically excited about it, like secretly, I am
(11:10):
just a Midwestern dad and this is it makes me
so happy. I am gonna play Super Nintendo in that
wreck room and it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh my gosh, it is gonna be great, very happy
about this for you and for me.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Anyway. Tapache Okay. Tapache is often made at home or
purchased from a street cart like ladled straight from a
croc or a barrel, or maybe served in like a
little individual plastic bag that's sealed up tight and has
a straw stuck in it. Yeah, but but these days, right,
you can find commercial versions outside of the local area
as well, and it can be consumed as is or
(11:53):
mixed with other juices or with like a beer or
liquor if you want to.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, yep, Well, what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
That depends on exactly how you make it, But generally speaking,
it's not super sugary. It will probably contain some like
good micro nutrients and various other compounds that have positive
effects in your body. If it is a treat, if
it is a little bit sugary, sugar is a treat.
Treats are nice. Try not to get too many calories
(12:24):
from from beverages eat food. I think that's the first time.
Is that the first time I've ever had to say that.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't know. We've been here for a minute. We have,
that's the first time. It's impressive.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Oh yeah, our seven year anniversary is coming up. I know,
I thought it was something less than that. Huh.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
We've been kicking around for a while, Lauren. Yes, well
we have number for you.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We have one single set of numbers. Okay. So, because
has this tends to be a very locally produced kind
of product, there aren't really global production numbers or anything
like that to report upon. But as I was reading
some of the excellent research going into the microbiome of tapach,
(13:23):
which there is a bunch of now, which is so exciting. Yeah,
this one paper that was published in July of twenty
twenty two that profiled the genes of microbes growing in
this batch of tapache that they made over the course
of a seventy two hour period the study, they found
yeasts from to Phila thirteen classes, eighteen orders, twenty five
(13:46):
families and forty one genera, and then bacteria from nine
Fila twenty four classes, thirty eight orders, seventy one families,
and one hundred and five genera, And like it changed
over time, like really dramatically, which is I mean a
(14:07):
common occurrence, but so cool. The researchers referred to this
as the ecosystem of Mexican depace. Oh that is cool, Yeah,
very cool. I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yes, well, we have quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We do. We do, and we are going to get
into that after we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, So yes. A fermentation, often largely accidental in the
early days, is one of the world's oldest practices used
by humans. Accidents learn not when it comes to food
and drink.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yes, The aforementioned Julia Skinner writes in her book Our
Fermented Lives that Apache's roots go back, you know, like
twenty thousand years, because you know, cultures in the area
like by which I mean central Mexico into Central America.
(15:27):
Cultures in the area, like cultures pretty much everywhere, learned
that if you put fruit or other vegetation in water,
it will ferment all on its own. We know today
that that's because of wild bacteria and yeasts that live
on the skin of most vegetation and in the air
around us. And people then learned to help the process along.
(15:48):
And yeah, again like this has been going on for
quite a long time. We figured out fermentation before we
figured out the wheel. Yep, yep. Old.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But yes, to pache, which is a product of such fermentation,
goes back to pre Columbian Mexico, that area and cultures
like the Maya.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, the Maya and the Noah. Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It is just one of many fermented beverages from the
region and the time, most of which have very little
historical documentation, if any at all. But one of the
important ones that often comes up when you're talking about
this is Chicha. So Chicha historians believe that it goes
back to three thousand BCE, when people's in Central and
(16:39):
South America would chew corn into a pulp and their'sliva
would transform the mash into sugars. Essentially like I'm really,
I'm really making this a much shorter explanation, I guess,
and chewing corn is a pretty common way to make
it easier to work with it. So then people would
(17:01):
put the chewed corn in a container where it would
be exposed bacteria or yeast in the air, and within
as little as a handful of hours. Perhaps they had
an alcoholic beverage that could be boiled and sterilized, and
this drink was highly prized and may have even been
used in ceremonies. However, the Spanish did not approve of
(17:21):
it when they arrived in the fifteen hundreds, and its
popularity fell in a lot of places. However, it remained
as staple in Colombia, and vendors stands called chicheriez serving
the drink acted as both bars and communal spaces in
the eighteen hundreds, and from what I read, there were
hundreds in Bogata alone. So popular, but this changed after
(17:46):
a law requiring that fermented drinks be industrially produced and
packaged in glass that was passed in Colombia nineteen forty eight.
Lawmakers blamed chicha for a lack of hygiene, violence, and
a pseudo scientific condition that some claims was worse than alcoholism,
termed cheese mo chicha. Yes, Chicho was largely supplanted by beer,
(18:12):
and this is part of a push to erase the
past of this country, of this area and modernized.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, the chichiese mall thing reminds me of the panic
about absinthe that occurred, yes, over in France. But yeah, yeah, okay,
but to pache To pache at first was primarily composed
of crushed corn fermented in clay pots.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Corn is native to central Mexico. That is also an
ambitious episode we have put off for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
We just I think we have to divide it into
like dent corn versus sweet corn. But yes, two are
very closely related anyway. Okay, yeah, yes, it's going to
be a thing. Yeah, but it's gonna be it's gonna
be a whole thing. It's going to be whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But historians suspect peoples in this region were drinking tapace
by like the thirteen hundreds to fifteen hundred CE. To
Pach's components changed when colonizers introduced pineapple, which produced a
sweeter flavor when it was added to the mash, and
eventually pineapple went on to largely replace corn when it
came to tapace. But like you said, Lauren, there were
(19:25):
a bunch of different variations.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Though the word tapace itself shows
the beverages history with corn that there are a few
theories about where exactly it comes from, but generally it
seemed a historians seem to agree that it comes from
the novel out words for like tender corn drink and
also for stone ground, like there's influence from a couple
(19:48):
in there. So yeah, it's a stone ground corn drink.
There you go, it makes sense. Side note here, researchers
also kind of like to argue about whether pineapp was
in fact present in what's now central Mexico and down
into the Maya region prior to colonization. From what I understand,
(20:10):
it seems more likely that the colonizers did indeed bring
pineapple in from the Caribbean or maybe South America, like
pretty early on in the late fourteen to early fifteen hundreds,
and that it just really spread fast that it became
commonplace across the area within one hundred years, to the
(20:32):
point that the Spanish then started spreading that local pineapple
to other places in the world by the end of
the fifteen hundreds, so super quick. But it's kind of
it's kind of you know, Histori's mysteries. Yeah, yeah, Okay. However,
because cinnamon, and specifically ceylon cinnamon was definitely introduced by
(20:56):
the Spanish as a trade product in Mexico the mid
fifteen hundreds where it really caught on and apparently Mexico
today is the world's largest consumer of celon cinnamon. Huh yeah, huh.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Well, like pretty much everything we talk about, tapace is
no different. People started experimenting based on taste and local ingredients,
adding in botanicals, herbs, and spices like salon cinnamon. A
lot of these recipes were handed down through the generations
in indigenous communities, and this is one of the reasons
I think.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Numbers are difficult. As you said, was it for.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
A long time, It has been you make it in
your home or you buy it from a local vendor,
like yeah, that's where you get it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally, but okay. So part of the partially
enforced and partially voluntary cultural shift that occurred both during
several waves of colonization in Mexico and Central America, and
then later through through industrialization and globalization, was the introduction
(22:04):
of other and perhaps competing beverages like beers and sodas.
I've read that SODA's, especially starting in the nineteen fifties,
cut into and even i've read the word endangered the
consumption and production of traditional beverages like tapach. Like there
(22:24):
are fewer places that specialize only into pach to pata
villas in Mexico City today than there were in prior generations,
but it is still a popular product and still from
what I understand, very nostalgic for a lot of people,
you know, like for what their grandma brewed in her
kitchen or what they got from like a particular vendor
(22:45):
when they went walking with their parents.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, and I just realized I really never explained, but
chichi marada is purple corn drink. Oh, yes, very popular
in Peru. And when I was in Peru, everybody there
was like, teacher, marada, here's where we're going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
To get it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So that is how I found it. People had like
their specific vendors. I liked, we have to get this here,
so very similar vibe tipach is experiencing a bit of
a glow up in the US right now, both as
a health food and as a cocktail ingredient. Dita Kaye
looked up I Guess that's right launched in twenty Thank
(23:29):
You Lauren launched in twenty twenty, selling a variety of
flavored canned tapach. In June twenty twenty three, Tipach Saison
launched the first commercially produced alcoholic tapach, also called Tipach Saison.
All of this has caused some to worry that the
(23:51):
culture and history behind the beverage will be lost. There's
a lot of comparisons to kombucha and that the wrong
people will will be making money off of it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but both of those brands are run by people
who are connected to and who are also directly working
with local communities. But you know, like, is that going
to be the case in the future, because right, yeah, like,
is it going to turn into another kombucha or another
kafir where the people profiting from it will have no
(24:21):
connection to or maybe even no idea where it's from, right.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Right, especially because again, it has so long been like
something you make your grandma makes at home, ork, Like
it's something you get from the vendors.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So it's and also something that like that, like wealthy
Europeans looked down on. Right.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, I felt weird because I was like, oh,
where can I get it? I was like, wait, I
have to make sure it's that I'm doing. I'm not
doing the thing, not doing har Yeah, that's just what
happens in a lot of the episodes. We talk about
something we have to grapple with. But I do want
(25:04):
I feel like you're right, and I did have it
with Julia that I would like to have it again
now that I know what it is in mystery of it.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna read up on like
what other fruits, yeah, are like a good substitute. Yeah,
and use one of those heck in jars. You know
I might.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, you use those jars. I might make this. I
feel like I could.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I feel like you could too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh yeah, I have a ton of pineapple frozen, but
not the part that I need.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Blast. You're just gonna have to go buy a pineapple.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh oh, dear dear, I have such a nerdy thing
that's about to happen, Lauren. If I may indulge in
this particularly yes, So listen. You might not know this,
but I had a huge cress on Ryan Gosling when
I was a kid in the show Young Hercules. Okay,
(26:07):
and this show has never been available to buy for me,
but through some successful searches and bidding, I now have
the DVDs of Young Hercules.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And me and my friend were like planning because we
would watch it together. We're planning a themed menu, of course,
and one of the things on there, she was like,
you should make ambrosia, which for me is basically just
pineapple and juice. So now I'm like, maybe I could
work this in somehow.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, go go get your fresh pineapple, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, then I take the ambrosia.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Take the fruit, you know, brewier tapach.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Oh it's gonna be good. So excited it. That's that's amazing.
And I would say, given the fact that you ran
a D and D game for me and several of
our other co workers last night, that's not like the
most nerdy thing I've ever heard of you doing. No, No,
(27:18):
but it's up there.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's embarrassing because I like wrote a fan letter that
I hope he never read. I was nine years old
and I like dotted the eyes with her. It was fine,
but like, oh, come on, it's adorable. Oh no, I'm blushing. Wow,
it was. This is a timely episode for me, is
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, that's great. I'm I'm I'm here for you. I'm
here for you in this moment, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I appreciate that. Well.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
If you have any fan letters that you want to
tell us about having written to someone else really embarrassingly, yes,
if you have a personal memory of depach or anything else,
we would love, we would love to hear from you.
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
(28:10):
as we get back from one more quick break for
word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with school SpongeBob. Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, I show.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
No idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I love it. That's another. That's another one that's been
on the list for a long time. One Day, One day, Okay,
John wrote loved the recent episode on dim Sum and
just had to chime in. Growing up, Chinese food was
a staple for my family, and in fact, my mother
(29:03):
worked at one restaurant for several years while I was
a child, Dumplings aka potstickers were always a favorite treat,
but something that had eluded me for a long time
was the fabled jiaolongboo or soup dumplings. Maybe I'm misremembering,
but when Bruce Lee is giving his famous bee like
water speech and enter the Dragon, he does so while
(29:24):
eating jiaolongboo, demonstrating how to properly tear open a corner
of the dumpling to let the soup in actuality a
neat aspect or gelatin that melts from the steaming process
fill your spoon and prevent you from burning your mouth.
It wouldn't be till my wife and I honeymooned in
California that the stream was made of reality. We went
(29:45):
to a lovely little dim sum restaurant in San Francisco
right when they opened, and took time to savor our
tasty treat, accompanied by delightful chrysanthemum tea. Of all the
things we tried, the phoenix talons, fried and marinated chicken
fee we're the hardest to swallow. We gave it a
daring China nibvel, but the texture defeated it. Still, it's
(30:07):
been a happy memory for us, and it's nice to
know that there are some places nearby in Atlanta that
served dim sum, even if it's without the cute little carts.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Oh yeah, now there's a there's plenty of dim sum
around Atlanta. Yes, oh yes, yeah, I tended to go
to Canton House, but that's just like my basic that's
like the one that I was introduced to first. So yeah, yeah,
there's a bunch of them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
We have kind of like twenty minutes outside of the
heart of Atlantic, kind of a Chinatown, a China market area,
and it has a lot of restaurants here there. But yeah, yeah,
I love this. I recently ordered a bunch of soup
dumplings now because after you told me how to eat them,
I was like, well, now I've got to try. I've
done it right this whole time, so I'm very excited.
(30:59):
I think they're coming tomorrow. Oh oh fine, I will
report back on that.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
It is funny about the the chicken feet. I ate
that a lot in when I was in China.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh yeah, because it was kind of just sold like I.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Don't know, like how in the US we sell candy
bars when you're checking out.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It was sort of just kind of everywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, and especially when I first got there and I realized, like,
oh my Mandarin is not very good. Nothing's in English.
I'll just I see this thing, I'll buy it. So
I really liked it, but it took My friends were like,
it is work to get some of the meat. It's
one of those things you get a yeah, it's effort.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, and it is a lot of a lot of
skin and kind of like a little bit of fat.
I find it very chewy, which can be a difficult
texture sometimes, especially if it's combined with a flavor that
you're not expecting to get from chewy. But uh, it's
not a thing that I order. But I certainly wouldn't
(31:58):
turn my nose bad. If someone was like, here, try this,
I would be like.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Of course, yeah, yeah, pretty good. Yeah, I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I love these memories.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I'm also someone who has like the memories associated with
entertainment where I'm like, well remember and that scene where
they hate this? Yes, so I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Oh, Jill wrote Happy New Year. Mold wine is one
of my favorite festive drinks. I first had it during
bonfire night celebrations in England, where it's all about burning
guy fox and effigy and shooting off fireworks. Me and
a couple of my friends walked up one of Durham's
many hills to watch the fireworks, since many of the
different colleges had their own celebrations and we could see
(32:42):
all the different shows from that vantage point. As it
was November in England, the night was quite cold and rainy,
and we had to press together to share warmth, a
far cry from warm summer night fireworks for the Fourth
of July. The only thing that made it bearable was
the glug my finish friend made and kept in a thermos.
The common of hot wine, warm spices, citrus and whiskey
(33:03):
was all we needed. Since then, I've tried and loved
many variations of muld wine, including the hippocris you mentioned.
The long pepper and greens of paradise really make it special,
floral and more fiery than regular black peppercorns. One of
my friends even sent me some mold wine tea this Christmas,
and I'll have to report back on the flavor. Lauren.
I think you'll really like a chada. A chada is
(33:26):
pickled green papaya with other vegetables like carrots. Some recipes
even call for reasons it's sweet and vinegary and plays
well with all proteins. However, my favorite application is with
Crispy Fried pork Belly Lynch and Kohally or even the
Adobo sa scene that I wrote about a while back.
There's always a jar of it in my fridge. I've
(33:47):
never made it myself, but maybe I'll have a go,
and then links a recipe and says please enjoy. Yes, yeah, yeah,
so this is a this is a Filipino dish. And
we're lucky in Atlanta to have had this relatively recent
influx of like very popular, very good Filipino restaurants. Yeah,
(34:09):
a few of them, like during the pandemic, moved from
being like pop up situations to having their own storefronts.
And one of them just got a nod uh Esterltha
just got a nod from from Heck and Michelin guide
uh so has offered them delicious food. Oh I he
can love Filipino food.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Me too. I believe it was Joe that sends in
a recipe that I make to this day. Oh yeah, yeah,
so good. They like a dobo like where it melts
with the rice.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Oxtail, It was oxtail. That's how I make it.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh okay, all right, yes, oh heck yeah. And mulled wine.
Oh right right, how delightful, how nice on a cold night.
And I agree with you about long pepper. I love
a long pepper. One of y'all sent in a jar once. Yes,
and it's so good I'd never had it before.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yes, that is true. Oh, you listeners are the best.
You are. You introduced us to so much. You send
us stuff never required but always know. Yeah, so thank you,
and please do report back about this tea.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I'm intrigued absolutely yes.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well in the meantime, thanks to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savre is production of iHeartRadio four more
podcasts from my Heart Radio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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