December 18, 2023 • 28 mins
These airy cookies are made waffle-style in specialized presses with beautiful designs. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of pizzelle.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm more In Vogelbaum, and today we have an
episode for you about Pizzelle or pizzelle, depending on how
you pronounce it.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Oh dear well in that case, apologies for our pronunciations
in advance. Yeah, I really don't know much about this one.
Was there a particular reason it was on your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Uh? Well, Okay, I hadn't had this is a type
of cookie. I hadn't had these cookies until adulthood when
someone gave me a Christmas cookie tin that included them,
and I was like, these are excellent. And I was thinking,
for some reason, because the holidays are in fact, honus,
(01:00):
that I was thinking about Christmas cookies, and I was like,
what about those? I don't even know what to call them.
I never got a name for them. So so yeah,
so I started looking into it and I was like, oh,
this is this is fascinating. Let's do that one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
They are very pretty and they have a history of
a very interesting history of making them very pretty.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, yeah, that's part of why. Right. I was excited
about the topic as well, because, like anytime we get
to talk about a technology that's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Uh yeah yeah, and I also didn't realize it makes
sense now given the human who introduced me to them.
But like it is a specifically like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West
Virginia Tri state area cookie here in the United States. Hmm,
but yeah, which is also why the pronunciation varies. I'm
(01:57):
nearly positive that in the Italian and it should be pizzela,
but I understand that Americans pronounce it both pizzelle or
pizzell a.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So okay. I kind of love that.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know that it's shafes at people, but I sort
of love when you hear the different pronunciations that get adopted.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Oh sure, yeah, it's just interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah no, I mean right here here in Atlanta, we
have a road called Pasta Lyon, and that's how.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
My favorites is.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Uh is it Austin has the guadaloop right, and it
most certainly.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Should be Guadaloupe.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Like well, I won't say anything, but I could have
sworn going in Ish guadal loop. Yes, those interesting pronunciation
things that happen I'm very fascinated by. You can see
our episode on Waffles. I would say share a specifically
(03:01):
for our discussion on waffle iron. On waffle iron, other
other baked goods, Yes, other baked goods, other cookies. But yeah,
I guess that brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I guess it does.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The pizzelle or bizzelle what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, pizzelle are a type of white wheat flour cookie
made with a specialized waffle iron that the clamps shut
and presses the batter into a flat patterned disc, usually
and cooks it quickly on both sides to a sort
of cracker texture, which can be anywhere from an airy
(03:44):
crisp to a sort of soft chew or a denser crunch.
They're flavored with things like vanilla, citrus or perhaps most famously, annis,
and you get an almost like caramel flavor from the
hot iron, especially if you cook them a little bit crisper.
The irons pattern might be geometric or floral or kind
of snowflake ish or family level personal. Uh. If you
(04:07):
shape the crisp while they're while they're hot and pliable
into a bowl or a cone, they'll hold the shape
when they cool and uh, and you can fill them
with stuff like jam or cream filling or nutella. They
are often made for holidays like Christmas, Easter, or weddings,
and served with a dusting of powdered sugar or a
dip in chocolate, or maybe sandwiched with a filling, or
(04:29):
just by themselves, maybe with a hot drink like coffee
or tea or hot chocolate. There. They're like a cross
between a waffle and a waffle cone. There and again
the texture can vary, but in my experience they're just
this like crisp, melty, little nibble of delightful nothing. They
feel a little bit like a fay food.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh I love that, yeah, but right so So the
same way that you can have differences and preferences around
the texture of like a chocolate chip cookie, you can
have differences in pizzelle.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Your balance of eggs to flour and the type of
fat that you use are going to change your batter consistency.
You can cook them for shorter or longer. More flour
and less thyme generally gives you a softer kind of
cakey er cookie. Some recipes call for olive oil, some
for melted butter, some for a little bit of both.
Olive oil will give you the most crisp, all butter
(05:27):
will give you a softer thing. I've seen recipes that
replace some of the fat with milk for an even
thinner batter, like pancakes that you cook to a crisp.
I've seen recipes that call for creaming solid butter or
shortening with sugar so that you get a thicker dough
like drop cookies with more air in it so they
stay airrier once you cook them. You can beat air
(05:48):
into the batter if you're using the liquid fat too,
And recipes do often use baking powder to help them
puff up a bit, you know, expand to fill all
the nooks and crannies of the iron. And you can
see our muffin episode or our cream of Tartar episode
for a little bit more on that, but basically, baking
powder is a mix of stuff that will create tiny
bubbles of carbon dioxide when exposed to moisture. So yeah,
(06:11):
you can also flavor them with anything you like, though
you're generally looking not to like change the texture too much,
so a lot of extracts wind up getting used or liquors.
Flavoring is again perhaps the most traditional in the form
of ground anis seeds or anis oil or extract or
anisset liquor, which is a sweetened anis type of booze.
(06:34):
People like arguing about which it is most appropriate to use.
These wind up in my opinion, having this like absolutely
beguiling hint of herbal bitterness to them that I really enjoy.
But vanilla is popular too, or zest from a lemon
or chopped nuts or almond flavoring, or cocoa or orange liquor.
(06:55):
I've also seen flavors from like maple to espresso, to cinnamon,
dulcy de lache to gingerbread, strawberry to pumpkin spice. Yes,
anything goes. And also right how much batter you use
per cookie and how thin your iron actually presses the
batter is going to make a difference to most irons
(07:16):
are about five inches in diameter, that's like thirteen centimeters,
but it can be larger or smaller, or can come
in different shapes like hearts or rectangles. Though the name
does come from the Italian for like little round flat thing,
like like pise like pizza round, and then la for
small pizzell. By the way, is the plural the singular
(07:40):
is pizzella. Anyway, People do have opinions about those irons
capital O opinions. The traditional ones are handheld cast iron
pieces with these long handles, often in a different material
like wood, so that you can cook each each cookie
over an open fire or like even a gas stovetop.
(08:03):
It's like a sandwich or clamshell. You know, you're meant
to put a bit of batter down on one side,
close the thing up, and then sort of gently move
it around and rotate it so that the batter cooks
evenly on both sides. As with any cast iron piece,
people get really passionate about working up a good seasoning
on it so that it releases cleanly. Newer irons might
(08:23):
be made with other materials like aluminum, and there are
also countertop electric irons these days, which are like hypothetically
a little bit less fussy, but some people enjoy the fuss.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Ideally these things cook in just like thirty to sixty seconds,
like such a brief cooking time, like just until they
stop steaming and reach like a like a light golden brown.
It does take a little bit of patience from what
I understand, to learn when they're ready. There's some electric
irons have a little indicator light that's meant to help
(09:02):
if you choose to embark on this home cooking journey.
There are so many recipes online, you know, but but
you're basically going to have to figure out what works
for your particular iron and even your particular batch.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do you have a dessert, Lauren, that is your a
concoction that you can consider yours?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Uh no, no, not really. All of mine are certainly
based upon other recipes. Yeah. I do have one like
clementine almond cake that I've made very specifically mine, but yeah,
(09:51):
it's like almond flour and a whole clementines that you
boil and then pulp like pulp into into just an
absolute liquid and covered in chocolate ganach. That's my thing.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Oh that sounds pretty good because I feel like I
feel like a lot of these pizzelle are they got
stamped about that later, but the very specific thing. Yeah, yes,
well what about the nutrition they're treat?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Treats are nice?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Indeed. Indeed, uh, we have a number for you.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yes, it's hard to track down on this one, but
they're Oh. I found for one American company that makes
pizzelle irons called C. Palmer Manufacturing. They can make up
to ten thousand electric pizzell irons every year and that's
(10:57):
ads of this year, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I'm not sure that they do make that money every year,
or that they sell that many every year, but they
have made up to ten thousand relatively recently, I think
was what the article was getting at.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wow again, listeners, this is a.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
If you have such an iron, if you have a
specific iron that was designed for your family, Oh, my goodness,
please let us know.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Please send pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Oh yeah. Also, on a vaguely related note, if you
have within your community or family history the concept of
a cookie table at a wedding. This is a thing
that I learned, is like a Pittsburgh thing, and I
need to know more. I need to know more about them.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
My gosh, yes, please please. But I guess this does
bring us to the history section.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It does, it does, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break ForWord from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So, a lot of sources claim that the Pizzelee cookie
can be traced back to the eighth century and this
treat out of realm they called it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Crystule, crystul or crystulum.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Many sources argue that this is one of the oldest
cookies in our repertoire of cookies, and we have done
several episodes on cookies. I think the definition of a
cookie can vary.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh yeah, so this.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Your mileage may.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
A lot of people did say that.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Others believe that the history of the bizzele goes back
to ancient Greek and Rome, when there were bread stamps
and these were like forms of bread would be stamped
with these geometric patterns, which are very similar to bizele.
A lot of these patterns later became very Christian and
(13:27):
perhaps representative of eating the body of Christ. So yeah,
A written record from a nineteenth century Italian historian suggests
that this cookie, in its more modern version, originated around
that time in southern central Italy.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, the Abruzzo region east of Rome. And yeah, I
believe there are irons dating back to like the late
seventeen to early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, and in these early days, the cookies were pressed
between two iron plates attached to two handles that were
rotated over open flame, which I think again we talked
about in the waffle episode.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah yeah. Another regional name for these cookies is Farah
telle Farah for the iron that the presses are made of.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Oh, and some of these presses were commissioned to have
family crust. These decorative plates were prized heirloom things that
were passed down through generations, as were the recipes and techniques. Yes,
two places in Italy in particular like to lay claim
(14:41):
two Pizzele Coculo and sal As the story goes, several
centuries ago, Coculo was overrun with snakes.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Okay, as he saw.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I mean, I hope not, but yeah, I like snakes,
but I don't want to be overrun with no say
that no. Yeah. So to solve this problem, a priest
set the local fields on fire, driving out the serpents
and bizzelle were legend, has it created to celebrate the
(15:15):
lack of snakes.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Time to celebrate? Sure?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, sure, it's a very specific celebration and this yes
led to the Festival of the Snakes, a celebration still
held in Cocula where people eat pizzelle and some.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
People allegedly bring their own snakes.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I have seen photographs of this.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah yeah, oh my gosh again, listeners, if you have
these photographs, please yes, send them to us.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Meanwhile, Saul has a pizzell festival of its own, celebrating
a twelfth century monk with pizzele hanging from tree branches
as offerings.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Amongst other things.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I could not find sources on the pizzelle element of
these festivals that were not from like directly pizzele related
blog kind of sources, so so right, like write in
let us know. Meanwhile, I did read that in some
(16:22):
communities pizzelee presses were often part of a bride's dowry
early on, and that that's how the cookies became popular
at weddings.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Meanwhile, pizzele made their way to the United States with
waves of Italian immigrants around the turn of the twentieth century,
and again perhaps especially to the like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West
Virginia Tri state area. There may have been a particular
population from the like Pizzele a tradition region that was
settling there. I did try looking into that. It's a
(16:55):
little bit sticky to track down, but I strongly suspect
that part of why that area really took to pizzelle,
whereas other areas with lots of Italian immigrants didn't necessarily
is that, especially at the time, this was an area
with a lot of machine works. You know, coal and
coke and steel and iron were all big trades still
(17:20):
are and to some extent, you know, people living there
had these jobs, had the knowledge and materials and technology
to recreate new virgins of these specialized irons that they
had in their family or that they remembered from their childhoods.
So I suspect, yeah, that in some other Italian American
communities pizzelli traditions faded away simply from lack of equipment,
(17:42):
but they flourished here. I don't know, just a theory.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well, in the twentieth century, an electric pizzelle press was
invented that helped it go more commercial.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Though you can still order personalized irons engraved with maybe
a date or your initials or short message. And new
materials hit the scene throughout the nineteen hundreds, first aluminum
by like mid Century Ish, then Teflon in the nineteen eighties. Okay,
I found two American companies that started making these electric
(18:16):
irons around the same time. In the nineteen fifties, and
I've seen both listed as the first electric pizzele iron,
maybe some others as well. I couldn't track down the
specific patents, so I'm not sure, but okay, one one
of these claims, or a claim is as strong as
(18:36):
a strong sentence. But one of these companies was called
DeMarco Electric, and it introduced an electric model in nineteen
fifty six in Ohio after the owner, one Charles DeMarco,
made one for himself and started to get inquiries about
it from his neighbors. They were doing cast iron plates
at the time on these things, and the other company
(18:58):
was all right, this Italian American family company called see
Palmer Manufacturing aforementioned. The company was started in nineteen forty
three in this dude's basement in Pennsylvania. One Carmen Palmieri,
who had been born in a Bruso and came over
with his parents in nineteen fourteen, started making stuff like
noodle machines and Ravioli molds and these aluminum pizzell irons.
(19:22):
By the nineteen fifties, his son John joined him, having
been in electronics in the Navy, and so they developed
an electric Pizzelli iron together by the seventies, they were
able to offer like inexpensive custom dies. Carmen passed away
in twenty eleven at the age of ninety six, but
the company is still a major pizzele iron player today
(19:42):
and the company is still in the family in the
third generation.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well again, listeners, if you have a custom pizzelle, oh
my goodness, if you have one that's just been passed
down through your family, please let us know, because I
think that's so that's.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I love that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, where your family is sort of having this specifically
a design that is your family design, whether it is
very personal, whether it is just this is the irons
that you have, yeah, and then making these cookies out
(20:27):
of that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
So yeah, we want to hear about if you have
traditions surrounding this, please please please please please let us know.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yes, absolutely, yeah, and any recipes as well. But yeah,
I think in the meantime, that is what we have
to say about Baselee for now.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors and we're back.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, thank you, I'm back with this that was being
squished in a press if you guys could well, yeah
(21:26):
it was.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it worked out well, but we'll see. Also,
super producer Andrew does amazing work. Oh yeah, let's just
say it. Oh yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You, thank you super producer Andrew.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yes, so we have a message from Eric, who wrote
about a couple of things. Eric roved nice trifecta. Malted
milk is an interesting product, pretty versatile, good taste. I
think it takes a good ice cream shop to really
do a malt properly. Malted milk balls are good, but
(22:02):
to me another one of those things. You have to
be in the mood for the other thing. I found
with them, though, When the craving hits, look out. Make
sure you have only a few, otherwise you can find
yourself in a food coma. Craw Dads, Oh, craw dads.
Growing up in Ohio, we actually had a lot that
(22:24):
grew in the creek behind us. I do love a
good boil, but haven't been to one in years. I
think unless they are really fresh, they lose something. I've
had the frozen and such and there's just something different.
It is not bad, but I really think the difference
is only worth it if you have to stop the craving.
(22:45):
While not the same as they are saltwater based, the
Lngo stein lengostein Lego steam has a good taste and does.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Well in a boil.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The whole seafood boil is just a great idea sitting
around and sharing food and stories that will be part
of the save our Feast. I wish this feast is
getting out of hand because all it goes on, I
think it's going to be a minimum of five days
at this point. The dragon fruit is pretty cool. I've
(23:22):
never bought a fresh run. I worry about getting a
good one. I don't see it in a lot of
menus as I think it is one that can be
so varied that chefs don't want to risk it. And
even despite the listener mail about Durian, I still want
to try it. At some point, I'm willing to give
it a go. I mean, I feel like the Durian
(23:50):
is very personal.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, but but right, you know,
like like I enjoy experiences like they don't necessarily have
to be.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Pleasant.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Pleasant experiences for me to find them positive.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Uh so.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I say, I say, at risk of like getting I
do also get stuff like stuck at the top of
my brain pretty easily. So I'm like, oh man, that
is a danger zone if I just get if I have,
if it's a very bad flavor and I get it
stuck right at the top of my brain, that would
not be enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But which I feel is what happened to. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I still have the ice cream in my fridge.
It's plastic wrapped so you can't smell it.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Who knows if it's good anymore, But yeah, you do
still through a number of refrigeration related dramas.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yes, this is true.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But yeah, our savor feast could include something like that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It is going to be quite a feast. Yeah. If
when we ever two, we have so many things on
the menu.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
You do? Yes, hm, Yes, I did go to a
restaurant recently and have craw dads and it was very lovely.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, well, but your correct boils in general are delightful. Yes,
and I do love I mean, I like food, but
I do quite enjoy shellfish that has been boiled in
that way. It's very nice, but yes, uh, Katie wrote,
after hearing the five spice episode, I had to share
(25:42):
this holiday cocktail I came up with for my work.
It uses a cranberry five spice syrup made by Raft
who make all kinds of excellent cocktail syrups that I
delighted in making everyone smell. I mixed it with tart
cherry juice, fig syrup, mescal, egg whites, and cardamom betters,
shaken with ice and poured directly in the glass to
(26:03):
keep all the egg white froth intact, then garnished with
a star anis pod balanced on the rim. The smokiness
of the mezcal and the warmth of the five spice
syrup go together perfectly and are offset by the tart
cherry juice. It's a nice break from all the sweets
the holidays can bring, while still hitting some of the
classic notes. I'm sure one could make their own five
spice syrup, but after trying to make my own pie
(26:25):
spice syrup and having trouble with the ratios, all I
can say is good luck. I hope someone can enjoy
this recipe. That sounds great right me? Yeah, that's some
of my favorite things all in one glass. Like I
love a tart cherry, I love a mezcal figs are terrific,
(26:45):
like yes, like yes to all of this.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yes, and I'm very intrigued by the five spice aspect
of it. And also a star Ani pod balance. This
is a very nice drink.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is hecking fancy.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Mm hmm. This reminds me I was kind of lamenting
about the days of our early Dungeons and Dragons, where
I would make these like very elaborate drinks.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And well, you also weren't ming. You also weren't dming
at the time, so like, yeah, you're prepping other things
going into our games.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's true, but I do miss that, and this was
the type of thing I might have I might have
tried to make.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I don't think I ever would have. The egg whites
is difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, doing a flip in, you know, for like five
people in a go is yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, but it does sound really lovely.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So thank you, yeah sharing, Yes, Oh my goodness, yes,
and thanks to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you'd like to write to us, you can Our
email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saverpod and we do hope to hear
from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
from iHeartRadio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
(28:25):
good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm more In Vogelbaum, and today we have an
episode for you about Pizzelle or pizzelle, depending on how
you pronounce it.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Oh dear well in that case, apologies for our pronunciations
in advance. Yeah, I really don't know much about this one.
Was there a particular reason it was on your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Uh? Well, Okay, I hadn't had this is a type
of cookie. I hadn't had these cookies until adulthood when
someone gave me a Christmas cookie tin that included them,
and I was like, these are excellent. And I was thinking,
for some reason, because the holidays are in fact, honus,
(01:00):
that I was thinking about Christmas cookies, and I was like,
what about those? I don't even know what to call them.
I never got a name for them. So so yeah,
so I started looking into it and I was like, oh,
this is this is fascinating. Let's do that one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
They are very pretty and they have a history of
a very interesting history of making them very pretty.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, yeah, that's part of why. Right. I was excited
about the topic as well, because, like anytime we get
to talk about a technology that's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Uh yeah yeah, and I also didn't realize it makes
sense now given the human who introduced me to them.
But like it is a specifically like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West
Virginia Tri state area cookie here in the United States. Hmm,
but yeah, which is also why the pronunciation varies. I'm
(01:57):
nearly positive that in the Italian and it should be pizzela,
but I understand that Americans pronounce it both pizzelle or
pizzell a.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So okay. I kind of love that.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know that it's shafes at people, but I sort
of love when you hear the different pronunciations that get adopted.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Oh sure, yeah, it's just interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah no, I mean right here here in Atlanta, we
have a road called Pasta Lyon, and that's how.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
My favorites is.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Uh is it Austin has the guadaloop right, and it
most certainly.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Should be Guadaloupe.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Like well, I won't say anything, but I could have
sworn going in Ish guadal loop. Yes, those interesting pronunciation
things that happen I'm very fascinated by. You can see
our episode on Waffles. I would say share a specifically
(03:01):
for our discussion on waffle iron. On waffle iron, other
other baked goods, Yes, other baked goods, other cookies. But yeah,
I guess that brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I guess it does.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The pizzelle or bizzelle what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, pizzelle are a type of white wheat flour cookie
made with a specialized waffle iron that the clamps shut
and presses the batter into a flat patterned disc, usually
and cooks it quickly on both sides to a sort
of cracker texture, which can be anywhere from an airy
(03:44):
crisp to a sort of soft chew or a denser crunch.
They're flavored with things like vanilla, citrus or perhaps most famously, annis,
and you get an almost like caramel flavor from the
hot iron, especially if you cook them a little bit crisper.
The irons pattern might be geometric or floral or kind
of snowflake ish or family level personal. Uh. If you
(04:07):
shape the crisp while they're while they're hot and pliable
into a bowl or a cone, they'll hold the shape
when they cool and uh, and you can fill them
with stuff like jam or cream filling or nutella. They
are often made for holidays like Christmas, Easter, or weddings,
and served with a dusting of powdered sugar or a
dip in chocolate, or maybe sandwiched with a filling, or
(04:29):
just by themselves, maybe with a hot drink like coffee
or tea or hot chocolate. There. They're like a cross
between a waffle and a waffle cone. There and again
the texture can vary, but in my experience they're just
this like crisp, melty, little nibble of delightful nothing. They
feel a little bit like a fay food.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh I love that, yeah, but right so So the
same way that you can have differences and preferences around
the texture of like a chocolate chip cookie, you can
have differences in pizzelle.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Your balance of eggs to flour and the type of
fat that you use are going to change your batter consistency.
You can cook them for shorter or longer. More flour
and less thyme generally gives you a softer kind of
cakey er cookie. Some recipes call for olive oil, some
for melted butter, some for a little bit of both.
Olive oil will give you the most crisp, all butter
(05:27):
will give you a softer thing. I've seen recipes that
replace some of the fat with milk for an even
thinner batter, like pancakes that you cook to a crisp.
I've seen recipes that call for creaming solid butter or
shortening with sugar so that you get a thicker dough
like drop cookies with more air in it so they
stay airrier once you cook them. You can beat air
(05:48):
into the batter if you're using the liquid fat too,
And recipes do often use baking powder to help them
puff up a bit, you know, expand to fill all
the nooks and crannies of the iron. And you can
see our muffin episode or our cream of Tartar episode
for a little bit more on that, but basically, baking
powder is a mix of stuff that will create tiny
bubbles of carbon dioxide when exposed to moisture. So yeah,
(06:11):
you can also flavor them with anything you like, though
you're generally looking not to like change the texture too much,
so a lot of extracts wind up getting used or liquors.
Flavoring is again perhaps the most traditional in the form
of ground anis seeds or anis oil or extract or
anisset liquor, which is a sweetened anis type of booze.
(06:34):
People like arguing about which it is most appropriate to use.
These wind up in my opinion, having this like absolutely
beguiling hint of herbal bitterness to them that I really enjoy.
But vanilla is popular too, or zest from a lemon
or chopped nuts or almond flavoring, or cocoa or orange liquor.
(06:55):
I've also seen flavors from like maple to espresso, to cinnamon,
dulcy de lache to gingerbread, strawberry to pumpkin spice. Yes,
anything goes. And also right how much batter you use
per cookie and how thin your iron actually presses the
batter is going to make a difference to most irons
(07:16):
are about five inches in diameter, that's like thirteen centimeters,
but it can be larger or smaller, or can come
in different shapes like hearts or rectangles. Though the name
does come from the Italian for like little round flat thing,
like like pise like pizza round, and then la for
small pizzell. By the way, is the plural the singular
(07:40):
is pizzella. Anyway, People do have opinions about those irons
capital O opinions. The traditional ones are handheld cast iron
pieces with these long handles, often in a different material
like wood, so that you can cook each each cookie
over an open fire or like even a gas stovetop.
(08:03):
It's like a sandwich or clamshell. You know, you're meant
to put a bit of batter down on one side,
close the thing up, and then sort of gently move
it around and rotate it so that the batter cooks
evenly on both sides. As with any cast iron piece,
people get really passionate about working up a good seasoning
on it so that it releases cleanly. Newer irons might
(08:23):
be made with other materials like aluminum, and there are
also countertop electric irons these days, which are like hypothetically
a little bit less fussy, but some people enjoy the fuss.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Ideally these things cook in just like thirty to sixty seconds,
like such a brief cooking time, like just until they
stop steaming and reach like a like a light golden brown.
It does take a little bit of patience from what
I understand, to learn when they're ready. There's some electric
irons have a little indicator light that's meant to help
(09:02):
if you choose to embark on this home cooking journey.
There are so many recipes online, you know, but but
you're basically going to have to figure out what works
for your particular iron and even your particular batch.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do you have a dessert, Lauren, that is your a
concoction that you can consider yours?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Uh no, no, not really. All of mine are certainly
based upon other recipes. Yeah. I do have one like
clementine almond cake that I've made very specifically mine, but yeah,
(09:51):
it's like almond flour and a whole clementines that you
boil and then pulp like pulp into into just an
absolute liquid and covered in chocolate ganach. That's my thing.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Oh that sounds pretty good because I feel like I
feel like a lot of these pizzelle are they got
stamped about that later, but the very specific thing. Yeah, yes,
well what about the nutrition they're treat?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Treats are nice?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Indeed. Indeed, uh, we have a number for you.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yes, it's hard to track down on this one, but
they're Oh. I found for one American company that makes
pizzelle irons called C. Palmer Manufacturing. They can make up
to ten thousand electric pizzell irons every year and that's
(10:57):
ads of this year, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I'm not sure that they do make that money every year,
or that they sell that many every year, but they
have made up to ten thousand relatively recently, I think
was what the article was getting at.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wow again, listeners, this is a.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
If you have such an iron, if you have a
specific iron that was designed for your family, Oh, my goodness,
please let us know.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Please send pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Oh yeah. Also, on a vaguely related note, if you
have within your community or family history the concept of
a cookie table at a wedding. This is a thing
that I learned, is like a Pittsburgh thing, and I
need to know more. I need to know more about them.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
My gosh, yes, please please. But I guess this does
bring us to the history section.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It does, it does, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break ForWord from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So, a lot of sources claim that the Pizzelee cookie
can be traced back to the eighth century and this
treat out of realm they called it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Crystule, crystul or crystulum.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Many sources argue that this is one of the oldest
cookies in our repertoire of cookies, and we have done
several episodes on cookies. I think the definition of a
cookie can vary.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh yeah, so this.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Your mileage may.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
A lot of people did say that.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Others believe that the history of the bizzele goes back
to ancient Greek and Rome, when there were bread stamps
and these were like forms of bread would be stamped
with these geometric patterns, which are very similar to bizele.
A lot of these patterns later became very Christian and
(13:27):
perhaps representative of eating the body of Christ. So yeah,
A written record from a nineteenth century Italian historian suggests
that this cookie, in its more modern version, originated around
that time in southern central Italy.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, the Abruzzo region east of Rome. And yeah, I
believe there are irons dating back to like the late
seventeen to early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, and in these early days, the cookies were pressed
between two iron plates attached to two handles that were
rotated over open flame, which I think again we talked
about in the waffle episode.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah yeah. Another regional name for these cookies is Farah
telle Farah for the iron that the presses are made of.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Oh, and some of these presses were commissioned to have
family crust. These decorative plates were prized heirloom things that
were passed down through generations, as were the recipes and techniques. Yes,
two places in Italy in particular like to lay claim
(14:41):
two Pizzele Coculo and sal As the story goes, several
centuries ago, Coculo was overrun with snakes.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Okay, as he saw.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I mean, I hope not, but yeah, I like snakes,
but I don't want to be overrun with no say
that no. Yeah. So to solve this problem, a priest
set the local fields on fire, driving out the serpents
and bizzelle were legend, has it created to celebrate the
(15:15):
lack of snakes.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Time to celebrate? Sure?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, sure, it's a very specific celebration and this yes
led to the Festival of the Snakes, a celebration still
held in Cocula where people eat pizzelle and some.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
People allegedly bring their own snakes.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I have seen photographs of this.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah yeah, oh my gosh again, listeners, if you have
these photographs, please yes, send them to us.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Meanwhile, Saul has a pizzell festival of its own, celebrating
a twelfth century monk with pizzele hanging from tree branches
as offerings.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Amongst other things.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I could not find sources on the pizzelle element of
these festivals that were not from like directly pizzele related
blog kind of sources, so so right, like write in
let us know. Meanwhile, I did read that in some
(16:22):
communities pizzelee presses were often part of a bride's dowry
early on, and that that's how the cookies became popular
at weddings.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Meanwhile, pizzele made their way to the United States with
waves of Italian immigrants around the turn of the twentieth century,
and again perhaps especially to the like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West
Virginia Tri state area. There may have been a particular
population from the like Pizzele a tradition region that was
settling there. I did try looking into that. It's a
(16:55):
little bit sticky to track down, but I strongly suspect
that part of why that area really took to pizzelle,
whereas other areas with lots of Italian immigrants didn't necessarily
is that, especially at the time, this was an area
with a lot of machine works. You know, coal and
coke and steel and iron were all big trades still
(17:20):
are and to some extent, you know, people living there
had these jobs, had the knowledge and materials and technology
to recreate new virgins of these specialized irons that they
had in their family or that they remembered from their childhoods.
So I suspect, yeah, that in some other Italian American
communities pizzelli traditions faded away simply from lack of equipment,
(17:42):
but they flourished here. I don't know, just a theory.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well, in the twentieth century, an electric pizzelle press was
invented that helped it go more commercial.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Though you can still order personalized irons engraved with maybe
a date or your initials or short message. And new
materials hit the scene throughout the nineteen hundreds, first aluminum
by like mid Century Ish, then Teflon in the nineteen eighties. Okay,
I found two American companies that started making these electric
(18:16):
irons around the same time. In the nineteen fifties, and
I've seen both listed as the first electric pizzele iron,
maybe some others as well. I couldn't track down the
specific patents, so I'm not sure, but okay, one one
of these claims, or a claim is as strong as
(18:36):
a strong sentence. But one of these companies was called
DeMarco Electric, and it introduced an electric model in nineteen
fifty six in Ohio after the owner, one Charles DeMarco,
made one for himself and started to get inquiries about
it from his neighbors. They were doing cast iron plates
at the time on these things, and the other company
(18:58):
was all right, this Italian American family company called see
Palmer Manufacturing aforementioned. The company was started in nineteen forty
three in this dude's basement in Pennsylvania. One Carmen Palmieri,
who had been born in a Bruso and came over
with his parents in nineteen fourteen, started making stuff like
noodle machines and Ravioli molds and these aluminum pizzell irons.
(19:22):
By the nineteen fifties, his son John joined him, having
been in electronics in the Navy, and so they developed
an electric Pizzelli iron together by the seventies, they were
able to offer like inexpensive custom dies. Carmen passed away
in twenty eleven at the age of ninety six, but
the company is still a major pizzele iron player today
(19:42):
and the company is still in the family in the
third generation.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well again, listeners, if you have a custom pizzelle, oh
my goodness, if you have one that's just been passed
down through your family, please let us know, because I
think that's so that's.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I love that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, where your family is sort of having this specifically
a design that is your family design, whether it is
very personal, whether it is just this is the irons
that you have, yeah, and then making these cookies out
(20:27):
of that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
So yeah, we want to hear about if you have
traditions surrounding this, please please please please please let us know.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yes, absolutely, yeah, and any recipes as well. But yeah,
I think in the meantime, that is what we have
to say about Baselee for now.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors and we're back.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, thank you, I'm back with this that was being
squished in a press if you guys could well, yeah
(21:26):
it was.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it worked out well, but we'll see. Also,
super producer Andrew does amazing work. Oh yeah, let's just
say it. Oh yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You, thank you super producer Andrew.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yes, so we have a message from Eric, who wrote
about a couple of things. Eric roved nice trifecta. Malted
milk is an interesting product, pretty versatile, good taste. I
think it takes a good ice cream shop to really
do a malt properly. Malted milk balls are good, but
(22:02):
to me another one of those things. You have to
be in the mood for the other thing. I found
with them, though, When the craving hits, look out. Make
sure you have only a few, otherwise you can find
yourself in a food coma. Craw Dads, Oh, craw dads.
Growing up in Ohio, we actually had a lot that
(22:24):
grew in the creek behind us. I do love a
good boil, but haven't been to one in years. I
think unless they are really fresh, they lose something. I've
had the frozen and such and there's just something different.
It is not bad, but I really think the difference
is only worth it if you have to stop the craving.
(22:45):
While not the same as they are saltwater based, the
Lngo stein lengostein Lego steam has a good taste and does.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Well in a boil.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The whole seafood boil is just a great idea sitting
around and sharing food and stories that will be part
of the save our Feast. I wish this feast is
getting out of hand because all it goes on, I
think it's going to be a minimum of five days
at this point. The dragon fruit is pretty cool. I've
(23:22):
never bought a fresh run. I worry about getting a
good one. I don't see it in a lot of
menus as I think it is one that can be
so varied that chefs don't want to risk it. And
even despite the listener mail about Durian, I still want
to try it. At some point, I'm willing to give
it a go. I mean, I feel like the Durian
(23:50):
is very personal.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, but but right, you know,
like like I enjoy experiences like they don't necessarily have
to be.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Pleasant.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Pleasant experiences for me to find them positive.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Uh so.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I say, I say, at risk of like getting I
do also get stuff like stuck at the top of
my brain pretty easily. So I'm like, oh man, that
is a danger zone if I just get if I have,
if it's a very bad flavor and I get it
stuck right at the top of my brain, that would
not be enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But which I feel is what happened to. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I still have the ice cream in my fridge.
It's plastic wrapped so you can't smell it.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Who knows if it's good anymore, But yeah, you do
still through a number of refrigeration related dramas.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yes, this is true.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But yeah, our savor feast could include something like that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It is going to be quite a feast. Yeah. If
when we ever two, we have so many things on
the menu.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
You do? Yes, hm, Yes, I did go to a
restaurant recently and have craw dads and it was very lovely.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, well, but your correct boils in general are delightful. Yes,
and I do love I mean, I like food, but
I do quite enjoy shellfish that has been boiled in
that way. It's very nice, but yes, uh, Katie wrote,
after hearing the five spice episode, I had to share
(25:42):
this holiday cocktail I came up with for my work.
It uses a cranberry five spice syrup made by Raft
who make all kinds of excellent cocktail syrups that I
delighted in making everyone smell. I mixed it with tart
cherry juice, fig syrup, mescal, egg whites, and cardamom betters,
shaken with ice and poured directly in the glass to
(26:03):
keep all the egg white froth intact, then garnished with
a star anis pod balanced on the rim. The smokiness
of the mezcal and the warmth of the five spice
syrup go together perfectly and are offset by the tart
cherry juice. It's a nice break from all the sweets
the holidays can bring, while still hitting some of the
classic notes. I'm sure one could make their own five
spice syrup, but after trying to make my own pie
(26:25):
spice syrup and having trouble with the ratios, all I
can say is good luck. I hope someone can enjoy
this recipe. That sounds great right me? Yeah, that's some
of my favorite things all in one glass. Like I
love a tart cherry, I love a mezcal figs are terrific,
(26:45):
like yes, like yes to all of this.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yes, and I'm very intrigued by the five spice aspect
of it. And also a star Ani pod balance. This
is a very nice drink.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is hecking fancy.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Mm hmm. This reminds me I was kind of lamenting
about the days of our early Dungeons and Dragons, where
I would make these like very elaborate drinks.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And well, you also weren't ming. You also weren't dming
at the time, so like, yeah, you're prepping other things
going into our games.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's true, but I do miss that, and this was
the type of thing I might have I might have
tried to make.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I don't think I ever would have. The egg whites
is difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, doing a flip in, you know, for like five
people in a go is yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, but it does sound really lovely.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So thank you, yeah sharing, Yes, Oh my goodness, yes,
and thanks to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you'd like to write to us, you can Our
email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saverpod and we do hope to hear
from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
from iHeartRadio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
(28:25):
good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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