February 16, 2024 • 32 mins
This buttery pastry has as many iterations as it (often) has thin, flaky layers. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and cultures behind baklava.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Save Her Protection. iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Unlearned Vocal BAM and today we have an episode
for you about baklavah Yesh.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh, I don't think so. I think I was looking
for a baked good and maybe maybe it had been
on our list, or maybe I'd been thinking about it
from the last time that I ordered like Greek tavern takeout.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm not sure. Yeah, well, I have very fond memories
of bacabo. I love it. I love it. I love it.
I have a friend who that is her go to
dessert and she's a friend that I adore, So I
have positive associations with her and baclava because of it.
(01:00):
But that's kind of the only time I have it.
Oh really, she brings it, or you know, if I
if I do go to like a Greek restaurant or
somewhere that has it, I might get it. But she
definitely is the person that brings it, so I think
of her when I think of it. Yeah. I love
when you have those friends where you're like.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh yeah, looking forward to that one. Yeah, yes, yeah,
I've made it a couple of times. I certainly haven't
rolled out my own filo do that zero percent. But
but yeah, it's it's I I find the process really meditative,
you know, it just sort of it's it's a little
(01:40):
bit fussy and a little bit repetitive, but kind of
in a nice way. You know, you're just going at
your own pace, You're just doing your thing, and at
the end you get back liver.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That sounds nice. Yeah, that sounds nice. I think that's
a better way to look at it than I often do,
which is why this this is not done yet.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh but see you're you're you're much better at creating,
like like show stopping pieces. Like I'm not the guy
who's going to decorate something. But if making it happens
to require putting down twenty layers of incredibly thin pastry,
I'm like, yeah, that's fine. This is why we work together, well,
different kinds of detail orientation.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, well, I guess this brings us to our question.
I guess it does. Baklava what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, baklava is a type of dessert baked good made
of many layers of extremely thin wheat flour dough brushed
with butter or ghee and sandwiched with some kind of filling,
often fine chopped nuts and then baked to an airy
crisp and then usually drenched in sweet syrup. The result
(02:52):
is a delicate with this crisp crunch that gives way
to a light nutty tew that gives way to just
just a sort of melting sweetness. It is pretty rich,
so it's often served in small pieces. The filling can
include warm spices or fruit or dairy like a custard,
and the syrup can be made from white sugar or honey,
(03:14):
or can be flavored with a lemon or florals like
roset water. The pastry can be served warm or room temperature.
It can be absolutely doused in syrup or have a
little bit of a lighter hand in there. It's a
really ephemeral thing. It's like, it's like if you could
eat a book of poetry, just sweet and satisfying, but
(03:36):
also fleeting.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, oh block oh, block them.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
All right, So let's break down those ingredients. The sheets
of dough are a type called philo or yufka, made
often with just flour and water, sometimes egg or dairy
in there. And from what I understand again, no personal
experience here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It takes a.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Lot of patience and practice and a light hand to
roll them out properly. They should be paper thin like tissue,
paper thin like translucent like you should be able to
read print through a sheet a philo dough. If you
have never seen artisans making it in bakeries, I highly
(04:27):
recommend looking that up. It's a beautiful process.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
To construct a baclava, you layer sheets of this dough
in a baking dish, brushing each one with melted butter
or maybe clarified butter or browned butter or melted ghee,
the latter two of which we'll add kind of toasty
flavors from the fact that you've cooked that butter down
a bit and caramelized from the sugars in it. And then,
depending on the type that you're making, once every few
sheets or sometimes in a thick layer in the middle,
(04:55):
you're going to spread in whatever filling you're using. That
filling fin fine chopped nuts like pistachios, walnuts, almonds, or pecans,
maybe some combination, just a little bit of sugar mixed
in there, sometimes with spices like cinnamon, cloves or cardamom
or with vanilla. Alternatively some kind of dairy like a
(05:15):
custard or clotted cream, or like a fresh unsalted farmer's
cheese type cheese. Sometimes both nuts and a dairy. I
can't tell you what to do, and then you slice it, yes,
pre baking into whatever shapes you like. Small triangles or
diamonds are easy, common shapes to make in a rectangular pan.
Do what you want, and then you bake it low
(05:36):
and slow. That buttery thin dough. It's going to puff
up around the filling and be crimped down where you
made the cuts and will go golden brown. Or sometimes
you're using such a thin layer on top that just
like the green of the pistachio or whatever filling, it's
going to show through.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Its super cool.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I did see in a couple of places that in
Turkish tradition there's a saying concept that the layers should
be so light and thin that you should be able
to drop a coin straight through to the bottom. But
I'm not sure at what point you're supposed to do
the coin drop anyway, this is the thing that I've heard.
At any rate, you bake it and then while it's
(06:16):
still warm, you give it that sugar soak. You might
melt down white sugar with water to make a sort
of thin syrup, or thin out honey or even molasses.
You might season it with lemon juice, rose water, orange
blossom water, and yeah, then you just pour it all
over the pan, usually enough to saturate the bottom a
few layers of pastry. It can be served straight away
(06:36):
or allowed to cool to room temperature or reheat later
if you like. It's often eaten as a dessert or snack,
sometimes with a strong coffee or tea. And you can
find it in bakeries, especially ones from the East Mediterranean
to like Central Asia regions, or you can make it
at home. And yes you can, as I have by
pre made frozen filo dough in many grocery stores to
(06:58):
use if you do not want to learned the artisan
construction of this dough. But yeah, there are all kinds
of local variations based on either what has historically been
available and preferred, perhaps a filling of walnuts and cinnamon
with honey and lemon syrup in parts of grease, or
(07:20):
walnuts with cinnamon and cloves and parts of armenia, or
almonds with cinnamon rosewater and geranium syrup and cyprus, or
orange blossom syrup in Algeria, or rose water and cardamom
in Iran. Some varieties will indeed appear green instead of
golden brown do cubistachio content. And of course this is
(07:42):
not even scratching the surface, like people get up to
all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You can use hazelnuts or peanuts or pine nuts, a
paste of ground nuts instead of choppnuts. You could add
chopped chocolate or cocoa powder or coffee grounds. You can
use fillings like sour cherry or poppy seed. You can
cut the pastry into any dang shape you like, or
roll or fold the layers of dough into different shapes
(08:07):
before cutting and baking, or make nests of shredded filo.
You can flavor the syrup with citrus zest or pomegranate juice,
or thin it out with milk. There are versions that
don't really use syrup at all.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Whole world out there, Oh, a world, A world of baklava,
A world of boklava. Well, speaking of what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
This is a calorie dense food. Sugar is a treat.
Treats are nice. They are nice, so nice nuts are
good for you.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I don't know. Yeah, yes, well we do have some
numbers for you. We do.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Okay, world record. I think this is the first time
in a minute, we've had a world record.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The Guinness World Record for the largest baklava goes to
a pastry weighing one thousand, one hundred and thirty pounds
that's five hundred and thirteen kilos that was created in Ankara, Turkey,
in twenty eighteen. It contained round about eleven thousand, eight
hundred pieces of baklava, and fourteen pastry chefs from around
(09:16):
the country got together to make it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wow hm.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
One popular chain of bakeries out of Turkey called I
really hope I'm not butchering this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Gololu Baklova has.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Forty eight locations around the world. In Istanbul alone, the
chain produces some six thousand, six hundred pounds of baklava
every day. That's like three thousand kilos.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That's one chain. Wow oh.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Another city in Turkey is particularly famous for baklava, Ghazi
and Tep also called on tap As of a decade ago,
it had some one hundred baklava bakeries supplying some ninety
percent of the baklava in Turkey, and earlier Frommer's travel
guide from two thousand and one said that the city
(10:10):
had some five hundred baclava bakeries at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Wow, that's a lot of boklava. It is, Yes, it is.
And there has been quite a lot of history around
this pastry.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Oh, yes, yes, and we are going to get into
that history as soon as we get back from a
quick break ForWord for our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So we've done a lot of episodes about things that
are related to baklava, somewhat tangentially, perhaps baked goods of
various kinds, yes, indeed. But the practice of sweetening wheat
of some type and mixing it with things like fruits
(11:04):
and nuts is a very long one though, the history
of baklava itself is much contested and fought over, particularly
between Turkey and Greece. Although they are by no means
the only places fighting over baklava, Armenia is also a
big proponent. They're a big contester. Most historians believe that
(11:27):
the early history of baklava goes back to eighth century BCE,
to the Assyrian Empire which is now parts of Iraq, Iran, Kuwait,
Syrian Turkey, when folks would layer unleavened flatbread with chopped
nuts and serve it as special occasions. The ancient Romans
and Greeks made placenta cake placenta here meaning I didn't
(11:49):
go into the etymology of it, but cheese meaning cheese,
Oh sure yes, placenta cake centuries later, which consisted of
cheese and honey, maybe using bail flavor layered between dough,
baked and drizzled with more honey. When it comes to
our more modern understanding of bakhlova, though, that most likely
(12:09):
goes back to the time of the Ottoman Empire about
five hundred years ago. Since the eleventh century CE, layered
folded dough based pastries, both sweet and savory, have been
a part of Central Asian Turkish cuisine. Also, this timeline
is kind of bessy, so please bear with me. Baklava
evolved from that, perhaps alongside the air practice of soaking
(12:34):
dough in honey or in a sugar syrup. The earliest
known reference to baklava is in a Turkish poem written
during the first half the fifteenth century, which implies that
it was fairly well known in the region by that time.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, the poem, by the way, was about banquets, and
it references a feeling of what could be interpreted as
either almonds or lentils. Known is entirely sure, but so
a banquet food is what this poem was setting this
item out to.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Be yes, yes, And then kind of separately, some historians
claim that by the tenth century CE, what was essentially
baklava was a delicacy in Greece and that through trade
routes it made its way to places like our Meenium.
So some think that Greece made an early version that
(13:25):
spread along trade routes that was then perfected in Turkey
and then traveled back to Greece where it was adapting. Again,
these are a lot of this is like arguments over
definitions and also just the mysteries of history, you know, yeah, exactly,
and we will talk about that more later because this
is still going on today. But okay, because the pastry
(13:51):
was tricky to make and the frequently used ingredients, which
were honey, sugar, and nuts were expensive. It was typically
reserved for special occasions, including things like weddings and Ramadan.
A fourteen seventy four palace kitchen register showed that baklava
with forty one layers were being made daily for Ramadan.
(14:12):
Many Automan recipes later called for sixty layers for their baklava.
It was often cooked over low heat coal embers, and
when the palace staff couldn't keep up with demand for
this complicated pastry, they outsourced this work to women in
the region. And it was a lot like it was
(14:34):
a lot of bakleva, yeah, that was being made.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, And I really cannot overemphasize how much work getting
that dough that bin without murdering it is.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It's difficult. Yes, Yes, I found a whole article that
was just like the the process of it, and I
got overwhelmed just reading. Oh wow. Okay, So as early
as fifteen twenty se the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire
(15:08):
would give his elite soldiers large amounts of baklava during Ramadan,
and this was known as the Bakhlova procession. And this
practice remained in place until eighteen twenty six, and it
was a lot of baklava. Again, I stress it was
a lot of it. Meanwhile, some Ottoman Christians made bakhlava
(15:29):
for Lent, even going as far as to have forty
layers of philo do to represent the forty days of Lent.
Others went for thirty three layers to symbolize the thirty
three years of christ life. Some Jewish people living in
the Ottoman Empire served baklava during Rashashana and Perim. Of note, though,
(15:50):
baklava was often a part of charitable practices as early
as the late fifteenth century, so it was something that
marked special occasions a lot of the time. But that
wasn't the only time people made and ate it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
During the Ottoman Empire there was a particularly developed practice
of public kitchens that anyone could could come eat at
free of charge, often part of a larger complex along
with the mosque or inn, or school or kind of
all of the above, and baklava was big in these kitchens,
and around the same time, middle class folks were making
it too. There are records of copper baking trays being
(16:27):
passed down through families and special events. Though did have
reportedly like wildly impressive iterations. This One Turkish travel writer
wrote the wedding feasts in Belgrade featured baklavas the size
of wagon wheels with a thousand layers of dough, which
(16:48):
is probably an exaggeration, but by how much.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Nobody knows mysteries history. At the height of the Ottoman Empire,
baklavas bread along trade routes, especially to the Mediterranean and
the Middle East, where baklava was adapted to local ingredients
and taste. So in some places pistachios were more common
(17:11):
like turkey, and walnuts were more available in others like grease,
the syrup flavoring zery two from rose water and cardamom
to orange blossom water. So we get these different varieties
that some people are very strongly opinionated about. Oh yeah, yes,
uh huh. In the nineteenth century, records indicate that the
(17:33):
process of rolling out the philo dough had been simplified,
allowing to roll out ten or more pieces of dough.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
At once, streamlined yeah, by dusting layers, eat each layer
of dough with corn starch or wheat starch to prevent sticking.
Bakers could roll out a bunch of layers at once
instead of having to work on a single sheet at
a time. And these starches are industrially made products that
hit the scene in the mid eighteen hundreds, so yeah, right.
(18:04):
During World War Two, flower shortages in Turkey led to
a temporary ban on making baklava.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And then jumping ahead, when President Obama enjoyed some baklava
at a celebratory dinner for Greek Independence Day in twenty twelve,
which is independence from the Ottoman Empire. By the way,
there were rumors in the Turkish press that this signaled
he'd picked aside in the debate between Turkey and Greece
(18:33):
over baklava's origins. The following year, the European Union granted
Southern Turkey's gazeean Tepe variety with protected status.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Turkey had been working on getting EU Protected Geographical Indication
status for the product since two thousand and seven. The
specific variety from Antep has this filling of local pistatio
and a type of a custard or cream that's thickened
with semolina flour and it's doused in sugar syrup, not honey.
(19:05):
And this means that iterations made in other places or
in other ways cannot use the name and tet baklava.
In the EU, the official seal has this background that
looks a little bit like a circular pan of rectangle
sliced baklava. Super cute mm hm.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And I have to say, like, there were plenty of
heated arguments, plenty of them. I won't say they're not
legitimate at all, oh yeah, But but I will also
say a lot of the things I read were very optimistic,
and this is from places like Grease or Turkey or
(19:46):
even Armenia, where they were like, you know, seems like
this is something that connects us, This is something we
all like as opposed to something that divides as it
shows that we have similar but also specific taste, like
this version is our version, that's your version, but they
(20:08):
also have similarities that different varieties emerged in different specific places.
So I'm not saying that there isn't heated debates and
oh yeah, debate about it, but it was a lot
from what I read of people being like it makes
sense that we all came up with this and it
kind of along their own paths, Yeah, became their own
(20:31):
specific things.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah that you know, we all due to this shared
cultural history in a lot of ways had access to
these same products or similar products and similar methods and
through that cultural trade. Yeah yeah yeah. One last note
in the timeline. In twenty twenty three, after the devastating
(20:55):
earthquake that hit Turkey and Syria, one of the restaurants
and bakeries and antap that that happened to still be
standing made itself into a modern charity kitchen and shelter.
They did resume making baklava after just nine days because
people were asking for it, sort of as a comforting
symbol of the hope of returning to normalcy.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah yeah, yeah, again us the power of that food,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh my goodness, Yeah yeah, I am. I. As as
we were going through our little opening spiel, I was
like feeling weird about the fact that both of our
references were to Greek restaurants.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I think that in the Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Area specifically, especially like like in the past, up until
the very recent past, we've mostly had We've had like
a bunch of Greek restaurants, very few Turkish or otherwise
Eastern Mediterranean, Central Asian restaurants. I think we've got a
(22:00):
few now. I think we're like we're like growing. I
haven't been to them yet because there's been a whole pandemic, but.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, I know a couple. I know a couple
because my friend actually comes more from not the Greek
part who I associate Black Of with. Oh yeah, but
it is true. Most of the time I have associated
it with Greece here. But it's it's great. I love
(22:30):
that based on what I read, at least, there does
seem to be a lot of like, oh, that's what
you're doing. Well, we're doing this, we're doing better, but
that's okay. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, which I appreciate. I appreciate.
(22:52):
But I think that's what we have to say about
Black Of for now.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yes, we would love to hear anything that y'all have
to say about it, though, and we do already have
some listener mail ready for you. But first we've got
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with listeners man later. Yeah wow. Yeah, So
we have a really fun listener mail today. It's a
(23:36):
bit longer, so we're just gonna split this one up
from a frequent writer, but we haven't heard from them
in a while, Big Yogi, and this is a great story,
so yeah, let's get into it. Big Yogi wrote, just
listened to your sea urchin episode, and it brought back
some good memories from the days when I used to
(23:57):
do a lot of scuba diving and underwater hunting. I
used to collect urchin a lot when it was in season,
and I often used urchin to getch other fish. Fish
go bonkers for sea urchin underwater. I would open up
a couple of urchin, wave the halves of one of
the urchin to create a bit of a cloud with
insides of the urchin, and the next thing you know,
(24:20):
you are surrounded by what seems like every fish within
fifty yards trying to get at the urchin. It's insane
how crazy the fish go when you hold up the
other urchin. At that point we could select what fish
we wanted and get it with a sling spear. In
one area I used to dive and hunt at a
(24:41):
local female sea lion we called Big Bama made a
practice of collecting taxes from the divers while they were hunting.
If she saw a diver in the area that had
a game bag, she would harass that diver until the
divers surrendered. Part of the days catched her. If a
diver refused to give Big Mama her tax, she would
(25:02):
take the diver's entire game bag, often dragging the helpless
diver along with the bag until the bag came loose.
Big Mama's favorite foods were a lobster and sea urchin.
She would sometimes hit divers with her nose and then
swim a few feet away before turning and looking at
(25:22):
the diver until the diver got the message she wanted
the diver to follow her. Big Mama would then guide
the diver to a hole where lobsters were hiding, or
to where a bunch of urchins were wow. Big Mama
would then wait until the diver pulled lobster out of
the hole, or until the diver opened up some urchins
(25:43):
for her. Big Mama would expect every diver she saw
to feed her a bit as her tax, and would
make her rounds to each diver until each diver gave
something up to her. Big Mama would also often have
a pup or two with her and appeared to be
teaching the pups the same tax collecting method. Woe be
(26:07):
the diver that did not pay the tax, because then
Big Mama acted like she was the bookie that you
were late. Hang off. Divers who absolutely refused to give
Big Mama her cut often ended up getting quite the
underwater beat down. Many a stubborn diver ended up back
at the beach covered and cuts and deep bruises, and
(26:31):
some ended up with broken ribs or broken a bandages.
Then after the beating, Big Mama would make off with
the diver's entire catch anyway, So you were better off
if you just gave up what she was asking for.
Pay your taxes. Folks, Oh dear.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh my goodness. If y'all are not familiar with sea lions,
I need to impress upon you that like a lady
sea lion at like relative minimum is going to weigh
about like two hundred pounds. That's like a hundred kilos.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like they are.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Bigger than you think. And if they want your lobster tax,
then you should just give it to them. If they
have made it clear, then do that be like yes, ma'am,
and give it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
To the Big Mama has some good tastes, is what
we can say for suredness. Right, Lobsters.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Love this okay, all right, all right, all right, they continue.
My last urchin comes with a recipe. It is how
we got Billy's stuck butt bisk. One time I went
on a chartered dive trip with a bunch of friends
to Catalina Island. One of our group was a friend
of a friend situation and was one of the most
(27:58):
obnoxious humans I have ever personally dealt with, and his
name was Billy. Billy was extremely egotistical and had to
brag about how much better he was at everything than
anyone else. People fantasized about stranding Billy on one of
the uninhabited Channel islands. Within an hour of first meeting him.
One of my friends, who was one of the most
(28:19):
peaceful granola hippie girls you would ever meet, stated out
loud that she wanted to cut Billy's airlines while at depth,
after Billy made a very crass pickup attempt on her.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
On the very first dive, Billy descended but first on
a bed of urchin. He had at least ten urchins
embedded in his booty in the back of his thighs,
causing Billy to ascend to the surface far too rapidly.
Causing decompression sickness, and he had to be airlifted to
the mainland for treatment. Karma can be crazy. Before the
(28:53):
helicopter came to get Billy, we had used pliers to
extract the urchin, and later that night in the galley,
I turned those very same urchins into a bisk, which
the other divers named Billy's stuck Butt bisc in celebration
of Billy's departure from the group. The recipe follows. It
(29:15):
sounds like a really like a really nice bisk. I'd
say that the the really fun parts, yeah, are the
addition of some sea urchins, some whole sea urchins, and
the serving of the soup in those sea urchins shells.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I have to say this is an amazing
twist of a story in so many ways. Because I
believe the email the subject line was Billy's stuck Butt
biss and I just assumed.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
That it had to do with like pork, but sure,
I like, that's where your that's where your food brain goes.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, exactly. And then I was reading this, I was like, WHOA,
this did not go like I thought it was gonna go.
I got some jerkers, got a lot of urchins in
his butt, and then you made a delicious recipe out
of it. Yeah, I mean yeah, might as well.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Might as well, might as well. Yeah, you know, turn
turn those find find the rainbows in those rain clouds.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Uh, find the bitskin those butts urchins? Yeah. Yeah, Wow,
Well I hope that Billy. I don't want to say
learned a lesson, but maybe learned a lesson. I don't know,
(30:58):
because that's quite a that's a lot of come up in,
that's a lot of coming That's an experience to be
helicoptered out.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh yeah, as as I learned from Michael Crichton's novel Sphere, decompression,
stickness is nothing to connect with.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, we don't mess with that at all.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Goodness goodness, but also just in general, like, be nice
if you're if you're scuba diving, be nice to your compatriots. Man, Like,
that's not an environment in which you want to make
anyone mad.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, you don't want to have people annoyed at you
in your life. Is somewhat in your hand. Yeah, no,
maybe we don't go down but first but yeah, yeah,
I don't know. Yeah, well I don't really know, So
what can I say, sure, it didn't work out for you,
(32:01):
but it did result in a delicious sounding recipe. So
thank you so much for writing in for sharing this recipe.
If anybody wants it, just let us know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
you can forward it along, but yes, if you would
(32:24):
like to contact us, you can. Our email is hello
at saverpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And we're also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
You listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Save Her Protection. iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Unlearned Vocal BAM and today we have an episode
for you about baklavah Yesh.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh, I don't think so. I think I was looking
for a baked good and maybe maybe it had been
on our list, or maybe I'd been thinking about it
from the last time that I ordered like Greek tavern takeout.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm not sure. Yeah, well, I have very fond memories
of bacabo. I love it. I love it. I love it.
I have a friend who that is her go to
dessert and she's a friend that I adore, So I
have positive associations with her and baclava because of it.
(01:00):
But that's kind of the only time I have it.
Oh really, she brings it, or you know, if I
if I do go to like a Greek restaurant or
somewhere that has it, I might get it. But she
definitely is the person that brings it, so I think
of her when I think of it. Yeah. I love
when you have those friends where you're like.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh yeah, looking forward to that one. Yeah, yes, yeah,
I've made it a couple of times. I certainly haven't
rolled out my own filo do that zero percent. But
but yeah, it's it's I I find the process really meditative,
you know, it just sort of it's it's a little
(01:40):
bit fussy and a little bit repetitive, but kind of
in a nice way. You know, you're just going at
your own pace, You're just doing your thing, and at
the end you get back liver.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That sounds nice. Yeah, that sounds nice. I think that's
a better way to look at it than I often do,
which is why this this is not done yet.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh but see you're you're you're much better at creating,
like like show stopping pieces. Like I'm not the guy
who's going to decorate something. But if making it happens
to require putting down twenty layers of incredibly thin pastry,
I'm like, yeah, that's fine. This is why we work together, well,
different kinds of detail orientation.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, well, I guess this brings us to our question.
I guess it does. Baklava what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, baklava is a type of dessert baked good made
of many layers of extremely thin wheat flour dough brushed
with butter or ghee and sandwiched with some kind of filling,
often fine chopped nuts and then baked to an airy
crisp and then usually drenched in sweet syrup. The result
(02:52):
is a delicate with this crisp crunch that gives way
to a light nutty tew that gives way to just
just a sort of melting sweetness. It is pretty rich,
so it's often served in small pieces. The filling can
include warm spices or fruit or dairy like a custard,
and the syrup can be made from white sugar or honey,
(03:14):
or can be flavored with a lemon or florals like
roset water. The pastry can be served warm or room temperature.
It can be absolutely doused in syrup or have a
little bit of a lighter hand in there. It's a
really ephemeral thing. It's like, it's like if you could
eat a book of poetry, just sweet and satisfying, but
(03:36):
also fleeting.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, oh block oh, block them.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
All right, So let's break down those ingredients. The sheets
of dough are a type called philo or yufka, made
often with just flour and water, sometimes egg or dairy
in there. And from what I understand again, no personal
experience here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It takes a.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Lot of patience and practice and a light hand to
roll them out properly. They should be paper thin like tissue,
paper thin like translucent like you should be able to
read print through a sheet a philo dough. If you
have never seen artisans making it in bakeries, I highly
(04:27):
recommend looking that up. It's a beautiful process.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
To construct a baclava, you layer sheets of this dough
in a baking dish, brushing each one with melted butter
or maybe clarified butter or browned butter or melted ghee,
the latter two of which we'll add kind of toasty
flavors from the fact that you've cooked that butter down
a bit and caramelized from the sugars in it. And then,
depending on the type that you're making, once every few
sheets or sometimes in a thick layer in the middle,
(04:55):
you're going to spread in whatever filling you're using. That
filling fin fine chopped nuts like pistachios, walnuts, almonds, or pecans,
maybe some combination, just a little bit of sugar mixed
in there, sometimes with spices like cinnamon, cloves or cardamom
or with vanilla. Alternatively some kind of dairy like a
(05:15):
custard or clotted cream, or like a fresh unsalted farmer's
cheese type cheese. Sometimes both nuts and a dairy. I
can't tell you what to do, and then you slice it, yes,
pre baking into whatever shapes you like. Small triangles or
diamonds are easy, common shapes to make in a rectangular pan.
Do what you want, and then you bake it low
(05:36):
and slow. That buttery thin dough. It's going to puff
up around the filling and be crimped down where you
made the cuts and will go golden brown. Or sometimes
you're using such a thin layer on top that just
like the green of the pistachio or whatever filling, it's
going to show through.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Its super cool.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I did see in a couple of places that in
Turkish tradition there's a saying concept that the layers should
be so light and thin that you should be able
to drop a coin straight through to the bottom. But
I'm not sure at what point you're supposed to do
the coin drop anyway, this is the thing that I've heard.
At any rate, you bake it and then while it's
(06:16):
still warm, you give it that sugar soak. You might
melt down white sugar with water to make a sort
of thin syrup, or thin out honey or even molasses.
You might season it with lemon juice, rose water, orange
blossom water, and yeah, then you just pour it all
over the pan, usually enough to saturate the bottom a
few layers of pastry. It can be served straight away
(06:36):
or allowed to cool to room temperature or reheat later
if you like. It's often eaten as a dessert or snack,
sometimes with a strong coffee or tea. And you can
find it in bakeries, especially ones from the East Mediterranean
to like Central Asia regions, or you can make it
at home. And yes you can, as I have by
pre made frozen filo dough in many grocery stores to
(06:58):
use if you do not want to learned the artisan
construction of this dough. But yeah, there are all kinds
of local variations based on either what has historically been
available and preferred, perhaps a filling of walnuts and cinnamon
with honey and lemon syrup in parts of grease, or
(07:20):
walnuts with cinnamon and cloves and parts of armenia, or
almonds with cinnamon rosewater and geranium syrup and cyprus, or
orange blossom syrup in Algeria, or rose water and cardamom
in Iran. Some varieties will indeed appear green instead of
golden brown do cubistachio content. And of course this is
(07:42):
not even scratching the surface, like people get up to
all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You can use hazelnuts or peanuts or pine nuts, a
paste of ground nuts instead of choppnuts. You could add
chopped chocolate or cocoa powder or coffee grounds. You can
use fillings like sour cherry or poppy seed. You can
cut the pastry into any dang shape you like, or
roll or fold the layers of dough into different shapes
(08:07):
before cutting and baking, or make nests of shredded filo.
You can flavor the syrup with citrus zest or pomegranate juice,
or thin it out with milk. There are versions that
don't really use syrup at all.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Whole world out there, Oh, a world, A world of baklava,
A world of boklava. Well, speaking of what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
This is a calorie dense food. Sugar is a treat.
Treats are nice. They are nice, so nice nuts are
good for you.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I don't know. Yeah, yes, well we do have some
numbers for you. We do.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Okay, world record. I think this is the first time
in a minute, we've had a world record.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The Guinness World Record for the largest baklava goes to
a pastry weighing one thousand, one hundred and thirty pounds
that's five hundred and thirteen kilos that was created in Ankara, Turkey,
in twenty eighteen. It contained round about eleven thousand, eight
hundred pieces of baklava, and fourteen pastry chefs from around
(09:16):
the country got together to make it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wow hm.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
One popular chain of bakeries out of Turkey called I
really hope I'm not butchering this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Gololu Baklova has.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Forty eight locations around the world. In Istanbul alone, the
chain produces some six thousand, six hundred pounds of baklava
every day. That's like three thousand kilos.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That's one chain. Wow oh.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Another city in Turkey is particularly famous for baklava, Ghazi
and Tep also called on tap As of a decade ago,
it had some one hundred baklava bakeries supplying some ninety
percent of the baklava in Turkey, and earlier Frommer's travel
guide from two thousand and one said that the city
(10:10):
had some five hundred baclava bakeries at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Wow, that's a lot of boklava. It is, Yes, it is.
And there has been quite a lot of history around
this pastry.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Oh, yes, yes, and we are going to get into
that history as soon as we get back from a
quick break ForWord for our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So we've done a lot of episodes about things that
are related to baklava, somewhat tangentially, perhaps baked goods of
various kinds, yes, indeed. But the practice of sweetening wheat
of some type and mixing it with things like fruits
(11:04):
and nuts is a very long one though, the history
of baklava itself is much contested and fought over, particularly
between Turkey and Greece. Although they are by no means
the only places fighting over baklava, Armenia is also a
big proponent. They're a big contester. Most historians believe that
(11:27):
the early history of baklava goes back to eighth century BCE,
to the Assyrian Empire which is now parts of Iraq, Iran, Kuwait,
Syrian Turkey, when folks would layer unleavened flatbread with chopped
nuts and serve it as special occasions. The ancient Romans
and Greeks made placenta cake placenta here meaning I didn't
(11:49):
go into the etymology of it, but cheese meaning cheese,
Oh sure yes, placenta cake centuries later, which consisted of
cheese and honey, maybe using bail flavor layered between dough,
baked and drizzled with more honey. When it comes to
our more modern understanding of bakhlova, though, that most likely
(12:09):
goes back to the time of the Ottoman Empire about
five hundred years ago. Since the eleventh century CE, layered
folded dough based pastries, both sweet and savory, have been
a part of Central Asian Turkish cuisine. Also, this timeline
is kind of bessy, so please bear with me. Baklava
evolved from that, perhaps alongside the air practice of soaking
(12:34):
dough in honey or in a sugar syrup. The earliest
known reference to baklava is in a Turkish poem written
during the first half the fifteenth century, which implies that
it was fairly well known in the region by that time.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, the poem, by the way, was about banquets, and
it references a feeling of what could be interpreted as
either almonds or lentils. Known is entirely sure, but so
a banquet food is what this poem was setting this
item out to.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Be yes, yes, And then kind of separately, some historians
claim that by the tenth century CE, what was essentially
baklava was a delicacy in Greece and that through trade
routes it made its way to places like our Meenium.
So some think that Greece made an early version that
(13:25):
spread along trade routes that was then perfected in Turkey
and then traveled back to Greece where it was adapting. Again,
these are a lot of this is like arguments over
definitions and also just the mysteries of history, you know, yeah, exactly,
and we will talk about that more later because this
is still going on today. But okay, because the pastry
(13:51):
was tricky to make and the frequently used ingredients, which
were honey, sugar, and nuts were expensive. It was typically
reserved for special occasions, including things like weddings and Ramadan.
A fourteen seventy four palace kitchen register showed that baklava
with forty one layers were being made daily for Ramadan.
(14:12):
Many Automan recipes later called for sixty layers for their baklava.
It was often cooked over low heat coal embers, and
when the palace staff couldn't keep up with demand for
this complicated pastry, they outsourced this work to women in
the region. And it was a lot like it was
(14:34):
a lot of bakleva, yeah, that was being made.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, And I really cannot overemphasize how much work getting
that dough that bin without murdering it is.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It's difficult. Yes, Yes, I found a whole article that
was just like the the process of it, and I
got overwhelmed just reading. Oh wow. Okay, So as early
as fifteen twenty se the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire
(15:08):
would give his elite soldiers large amounts of baklava during Ramadan,
and this was known as the Bakhlova procession. And this
practice remained in place until eighteen twenty six, and it
was a lot of baklava. Again, I stress it was
a lot of it. Meanwhile, some Ottoman Christians made bakhlava
(15:29):
for Lent, even going as far as to have forty
layers of philo do to represent the forty days of Lent.
Others went for thirty three layers to symbolize the thirty
three years of christ life. Some Jewish people living in
the Ottoman Empire served baklava during Rashashana and Perim. Of note, though,
(15:50):
baklava was often a part of charitable practices as early
as the late fifteenth century, so it was something that
marked special occasions a lot of the time. But that
wasn't the only time people made and ate it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
During the Ottoman Empire there was a particularly developed practice
of public kitchens that anyone could could come eat at
free of charge, often part of a larger complex along
with the mosque or inn, or school or kind of
all of the above, and baklava was big in these kitchens,
and around the same time, middle class folks were making
it too. There are records of copper baking trays being
(16:27):
passed down through families and special events. Though did have
reportedly like wildly impressive iterations. This One Turkish travel writer
wrote the wedding feasts in Belgrade featured baklavas the size
of wagon wheels with a thousand layers of dough, which
(16:48):
is probably an exaggeration, but by how much.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Nobody knows mysteries history. At the height of the Ottoman Empire,
baklavas bread along trade routes, especially to the Mediterranean and
the Middle East, where baklava was adapted to local ingredients
and taste. So in some places pistachios were more common
(17:11):
like turkey, and walnuts were more available in others like grease,
the syrup flavoring zery two from rose water and cardamom
to orange blossom water. So we get these different varieties
that some people are very strongly opinionated about. Oh yeah, yes,
uh huh. In the nineteenth century, records indicate that the
(17:33):
process of rolling out the philo dough had been simplified,
allowing to roll out ten or more pieces of dough.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
At once, streamlined yeah, by dusting layers, eat each layer
of dough with corn starch or wheat starch to prevent sticking.
Bakers could roll out a bunch of layers at once
instead of having to work on a single sheet at
a time. And these starches are industrially made products that
hit the scene in the mid eighteen hundreds, so yeah, right.
(18:04):
During World War Two, flower shortages in Turkey led to
a temporary ban on making baklava.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And then jumping ahead, when President Obama enjoyed some baklava
at a celebratory dinner for Greek Independence Day in twenty twelve,
which is independence from the Ottoman Empire. By the way,
there were rumors in the Turkish press that this signaled
he'd picked aside in the debate between Turkey and Greece
(18:33):
over baklava's origins. The following year, the European Union granted
Southern Turkey's gazeean Tepe variety with protected status.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Turkey had been working on getting EU Protected Geographical Indication
status for the product since two thousand and seven. The
specific variety from Antep has this filling of local pistatio
and a type of a custard or cream that's thickened
with semolina flour and it's doused in sugar syrup, not honey.
(19:05):
And this means that iterations made in other places or
in other ways cannot use the name and tet baklava.
In the EU, the official seal has this background that
looks a little bit like a circular pan of rectangle
sliced baklava. Super cute mm hm.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And I have to say, like, there were plenty of
heated arguments, plenty of them. I won't say they're not
legitimate at all, oh yeah, But but I will also
say a lot of the things I read were very optimistic,
and this is from places like Grease or Turkey or
(19:46):
even Armenia, where they were like, you know, seems like
this is something that connects us, This is something we
all like as opposed to something that divides as it
shows that we have similar but also specific taste, like
this version is our version, that's your version, but they
(20:08):
also have similarities that different varieties emerged in different specific places.
So I'm not saying that there isn't heated debates and
oh yeah, debate about it, but it was a lot
from what I read of people being like it makes
sense that we all came up with this and it
kind of along their own paths, Yeah, became their own
(20:31):
specific things.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah that you know, we all due to this shared
cultural history in a lot of ways had access to
these same products or similar products and similar methods and
through that cultural trade. Yeah yeah yeah. One last note
in the timeline. In twenty twenty three, after the devastating
(20:55):
earthquake that hit Turkey and Syria, one of the restaurants
and bakeries and antap that that happened to still be
standing made itself into a modern charity kitchen and shelter.
They did resume making baklava after just nine days because
people were asking for it, sort of as a comforting
symbol of the hope of returning to normalcy.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah yeah, yeah, again us the power of that food,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh my goodness, Yeah yeah, I am. I. As as
we were going through our little opening spiel, I was
like feeling weird about the fact that both of our
references were to Greek restaurants.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I think that in the Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Area specifically, especially like like in the past, up until
the very recent past, we've mostly had We've had like
a bunch of Greek restaurants, very few Turkish or otherwise
Eastern Mediterranean, Central Asian restaurants. I think we've got a
(22:00):
few now. I think we're like we're like growing. I
haven't been to them yet because there's been a whole pandemic, but.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, I know a couple. I know a couple
because my friend actually comes more from not the Greek
part who I associate Black Of with. Oh yeah, but
it is true. Most of the time I have associated
it with Greece here. But it's it's great. I love
(22:30):
that based on what I read, at least, there does
seem to be a lot of like, oh, that's what
you're doing. Well, we're doing this, we're doing better, but
that's okay. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, which I appreciate. I appreciate.
(22:52):
But I think that's what we have to say about
Black Of for now.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yes, we would love to hear anything that y'all have
to say about it, though, and we do already have
some listener mail ready for you. But first we've got
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with listeners man later. Yeah wow. Yeah, So
we have a really fun listener mail today. It's a
(23:36):
bit longer, so we're just gonna split this one up
from a frequent writer, but we haven't heard from them
in a while, Big Yogi, and this is a great story,
so yeah, let's get into it. Big Yogi wrote, just
listened to your sea urchin episode, and it brought back
some good memories from the days when I used to
(23:57):
do a lot of scuba diving and underwater hunting. I
used to collect urchin a lot when it was in season,
and I often used urchin to getch other fish. Fish
go bonkers for sea urchin underwater. I would open up
a couple of urchin, wave the halves of one of
the urchin to create a bit of a cloud with
insides of the urchin, and the next thing you know,
(24:20):
you are surrounded by what seems like every fish within
fifty yards trying to get at the urchin. It's insane
how crazy the fish go when you hold up the
other urchin. At that point we could select what fish
we wanted and get it with a sling spear. In
one area I used to dive and hunt at a
(24:41):
local female sea lion we called Big Bama made a
practice of collecting taxes from the divers while they were hunting.
If she saw a diver in the area that had
a game bag, she would harass that diver until the
divers surrendered. Part of the days catched her. If a
diver refused to give Big Mama her tax, she would
(25:02):
take the diver's entire game bag, often dragging the helpless
diver along with the bag until the bag came loose.
Big Mama's favorite foods were a lobster and sea urchin.
She would sometimes hit divers with her nose and then
swim a few feet away before turning and looking at
(25:22):
the diver until the diver got the message she wanted
the diver to follow her. Big Mama would then guide
the diver to a hole where lobsters were hiding, or
to where a bunch of urchins were wow. Big Mama
would then wait until the diver pulled lobster out of
the hole, or until the diver opened up some urchins
(25:43):
for her. Big Mama would expect every diver she saw
to feed her a bit as her tax, and would
make her rounds to each diver until each diver gave
something up to her. Big Mama would also often have
a pup or two with her and appeared to be
teaching the pups the same tax collecting method. Woe be
(26:07):
the diver that did not pay the tax, because then
Big Mama acted like she was the bookie that you
were late. Hang off. Divers who absolutely refused to give
Big Mama her cut often ended up getting quite the
underwater beat down. Many a stubborn diver ended up back
at the beach covered and cuts and deep bruises, and
(26:31):
some ended up with broken ribs or broken a bandages.
Then after the beating, Big Mama would make off with
the diver's entire catch anyway, So you were better off
if you just gave up what she was asking for.
Pay your taxes. Folks, Oh dear.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh my goodness. If y'all are not familiar with sea lions,
I need to impress upon you that like a lady
sea lion at like relative minimum is going to weigh
about like two hundred pounds. That's like a hundred kilos.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like they are.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Bigger than you think. And if they want your lobster tax,
then you should just give it to them. If they
have made it clear, then do that be like yes, ma'am,
and give it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
To the Big Mama has some good tastes, is what
we can say for suredness. Right, Lobsters.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Love this okay, all right, all right, all right, they continue.
My last urchin comes with a recipe. It is how
we got Billy's stuck butt bisk. One time I went
on a chartered dive trip with a bunch of friends
to Catalina Island. One of our group was a friend
of a friend situation and was one of the most
(27:58):
obnoxious humans I have ever personally dealt with, and his
name was Billy. Billy was extremely egotistical and had to
brag about how much better he was at everything than
anyone else. People fantasized about stranding Billy on one of
the uninhabited Channel islands. Within an hour of first meeting him.
One of my friends, who was one of the most
(28:19):
peaceful granola hippie girls you would ever meet, stated out
loud that she wanted to cut Billy's airlines while at depth,
after Billy made a very crass pickup attempt on her.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
On the very first dive, Billy descended but first on
a bed of urchin. He had at least ten urchins
embedded in his booty in the back of his thighs,
causing Billy to ascend to the surface far too rapidly.
Causing decompression sickness, and he had to be airlifted to
the mainland for treatment. Karma can be crazy. Before the
(28:53):
helicopter came to get Billy, we had used pliers to
extract the urchin, and later that night in the galley,
I turned those very same urchins into a bisk, which
the other divers named Billy's stuck Butt bisc in celebration
of Billy's departure from the group. The recipe follows. It
(29:15):
sounds like a really like a really nice bisk. I'd
say that the the really fun parts, yeah, are the
addition of some sea urchins, some whole sea urchins, and
the serving of the soup in those sea urchins shells.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I have to say this is an amazing
twist of a story in so many ways. Because I
believe the email the subject line was Billy's stuck Butt
biss and I just assumed.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
That it had to do with like pork, but sure,
I like, that's where your that's where your food brain goes.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, exactly. And then I was reading this, I was like, WHOA,
this did not go like I thought it was gonna go.
I got some jerkers, got a lot of urchins in
his butt, and then you made a delicious recipe out
of it. Yeah, I mean yeah, might as well.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Might as well, might as well. Yeah, you know, turn
turn those find find the rainbows in those rain clouds.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Uh, find the bitskin those butts urchins? Yeah. Yeah, Wow,
Well I hope that Billy. I don't want to say
learned a lesson, but maybe learned a lesson. I don't know,
(30:58):
because that's quite a that's a lot of come up in,
that's a lot of coming That's an experience to be
helicoptered out.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh yeah, as as I learned from Michael Crichton's novel Sphere, decompression,
stickness is nothing to connect with.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, we don't mess with that at all.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Goodness goodness, but also just in general, like, be nice
if you're if you're scuba diving, be nice to your compatriots. Man, Like,
that's not an environment in which you want to make
anyone mad.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, you don't want to have people annoyed at you
in your life. Is somewhat in your hand. Yeah, no,
maybe we don't go down but first but yeah, yeah,
I don't know. Yeah, well I don't really know, So
what can I say, sure, it didn't work out for you,
(32:01):
but it did result in a delicious sounding recipe. So
thank you so much for writing in for sharing this recipe.
If anybody wants it, just let us know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
you can forward it along, but yes, if you would
(32:24):
like to contact us, you can. Our email is hello
at saverpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And we're also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
You listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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