March 13, 2024 • 52 mins
It is time for the long-awaited episode on Jane Austen's enduring classic novel Pride and Prejudice. We navigate issues of class, romance, expectations, first impressions, and of course, pride and prejudice.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph.
I never told your prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Ah. And the time has come, and what time you
may all be asking? That time to bring in the
good old classics. Yes, for our book club, we are
finally coming to one of my all time favorites, Pride
and Prejudice by Jane Austen, And it's a truth universally
(00:39):
acknowledged that are now famous and respected. Writer Jane Austen
really was a woman beyond her time. So let's come
together and discuss one of her more popular novels, Pride
and Prejudice, which actually had a different title, but then
they changed it about and they're like, Okay, no, we
need to make it in this title, which is what
we know it. It's just Pride and Prejudice. Barely. There
(01:02):
was like several other books that had been I think
named that or something along those lines, and so there
was a lot of confusion and she went back and forth. Anyway,
it is now what it is, and sounded like she
did not make much money off of it, y'all. It's
a really sad life. She had a really kind of
sad life. It emulated a lot of through her books,
(01:24):
like you'll see things being told like the whole entailment
when there's not a son born that the like the
next male heir or like related relation will take it,
take over it. And like there was a bit where
one brother there's a book and I forgot which one
because I read it's been a long time takes the
(01:47):
takes the ownership. And in the wheel, they're like, can
you please take care of the mother and the daughters
And he does not. He like just pretty much just
cast them out. It was really sad and gross. Ah,
and it's kind of reminiscent to her life, like it's
not not great. She wasn't given to do even though
she had success pretty early on, she just didn't make
money off of it, which is all sad.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yes, and we have talked about that before. I feel
like it's come up in several episodes. I think it
even came up in our episode on women writing romance.
Briefly it came up. This was inspired by the fact
that I had read that after we read last month's
(02:28):
book club pick Pride, which was a remix of Pride
and Prejudice, it came out. I had never read this
one I feel like we kind of talked about it
in there, and we talked about it in some other
because I feel like I know, like the vague details
of this because you've told me, right, but I don't
(02:48):
know all the specifics right.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And I think I'm geting coviews because we did have
an expert who did tours or if you remember that
episode in England, which I still want to go on, like,
oh my god, I want to go. I want to
go to hear because I think I'm wrong in some
things because she did have brothers, they just ended up
being like not from a wealthy family, all these things,
but like her father was a scholar, all these different things,
(03:12):
and the book was initially called First Impressions, which is
I think it makes a lot of sense, like when
you think about all of that, and the pride and
prejudice came instead so so many different things. Uh, we
did have that episode. We probably need to bring it
back as a classic so I can be corrected. And
what I just said about Jane Austen, but she did
she was like, she did not live a rich life
(03:36):
and she was supposed to marry someone rich and then
that didn't happen. And all these things. So she wanted
to marry for love, and we really really like wrote
about the possibility of being able to do so, but
she didn't. Anyway, before we jump into the actual plot, Annie,
what are your thoughts now that I have forced you
(03:58):
into actually reading the original classic because I've made you
watch Bridget Jones' Diary, which is kind, which is a
retelling of that, as well as we read the book Pride.
So what were your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It was really interesting to come from that perspective, and
I actually think it was sort of helpful because we've
also read Persuasions by Jane Austen and I really like
I enjoyed that too, but I got confused because of
the way they would refer to people, so like miss
whoever right, And there's just a certain part of my
(04:31):
modern brain that's like, that's your cousin, though, So I
would just get confused. So I think it actually helped
me to have read Pride first. I really enjoyed it.
I see why it's been such a lasting classic. It's
got so many great lines. It's very witty, That's why
I told you, And I know people have said that before,
(04:52):
but it's very witty. Like, Elizabeth has just got all
these comebacks, and they're so well thought out and fun.
They're fun to read. I enjoyed all of the like
relationships between like Elizabeth and her father, and then you
got the mother who's like worrying all the time. And
I also thought it was interesting because when you're looking
(05:13):
at the more modern take that Pride did their cell phones,
so things happen much quicker, right, So the whole thing
with Lydia, I was like, well, wow, this is clearly different.
This is like much more stressful because we don't know
where she is.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
We're just going by horsecarash to try. Yeah, there's my
favorite part. It's like the Overnight Express and all these things. Yes,
but yeah, and then also that's why I was like
originally telling you, I was like, I'm not sure how
they're going to do the Lydia the youngest child. But
because in this cake, she's fifteen runs away with a
(05:52):
twenty something year old. Oh, obviously they're like in fo grante.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
As I say, uh, and her reputation would be shot
And I'm like, are they gonna have see because it's
supposed to be one of the things, like age difference
is one of those things as well, like all these
things and I'm like, how are they going to do this?
And she did a wonderful job, and what like what
would be the scandals today? That wasn't they're going to
put someone in jail?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and that was it was still tense and pride.
It was just like resolved much more quickly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Right right, right. She did a great job on that. Yes,
But yeah, so what would you wait it on the
scale of books they read that you've read.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, I really I don't know how to put
it on scales, man. But I did really enjoy it.
And it's funny because I all my friends growing up
loved it, and I just it was never like, oh
I won't read that. I just wasn't into romance, so
I just never did. But I did really enjoy it.
And like I said, I was like, oh, yeah, I
(06:59):
could see you told me you read it in like
one night. I was like, oh, I can because you
just like, oh, I want to see what happens next.
It was a really enjoyable book. And I think it's
pretty impressive that for you know, me coming into it
in the year twenty twenty four, that I was still
like oh yes, yeah, this is hitting. Yeah, yeah, Like
(07:23):
it was really enjoyable and it didn't feel like there
were certainly some things where I was like, oh, that
must be a thing at the time, but mostly I
was like, yeah, this is still people are kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Like this right, And you know what, I had to
come back at the end and say, as annoying as
the mother character is, she's not wrong in something, and
like I was like, yeah, I get it, I get it,
but yeah, let's jump into it and we're gonna start
with the characters because I feel like that needs to
be the breakdown first, or you're you're probably if you
have not read it and you do like to read,
(07:56):
this is something that you should pick up if you
haven't already. I'm gonna be surprised if you haven't. But
for those of you who maybe like naysayers because you
don't understand the level of newness and freshness for this
book during this time and what she was saying about
society Austin in itself again going against the idea, Like
(08:18):
she understood the rules and followed them, however she really
felt like they were ridiculous, as we all do, I think,
and I think we're learning that more and more, and
then there's just the unfair fairness of it all as well.
But she also is like she's a girl's girl, but
not a girl's girl here I will say she has
(08:39):
like Elizabeth the main character. So there's a lot to
be said about this fun fact. Audible has it and
rosemand Pike is the one who reads it. So who
plays Jane in the newer adaptation with Kiera Knightley that
I hate of pride and prejudice HM, just so we
(09:02):
had that and she does squeak with the voices. It
really threw me off though. I was like, she has
a very shrill voice for the mother threw me off,
and I think it's also a kind of like higher
speeds those even shriller right in which she's voicing putpil
job because I do love Rozen Pike. She does a
great job. And so if you want entertaining to listen
(09:22):
and you needed a break from our podcast, which I
hope you don't take a break, but if you need,
you know, but something in between, you should listen to that.
So we have the Bennettes and relations and friends that
(09:44):
you should know about which the main character is Elizabeth,
who's the second oldest daughter in the Bennett family. You're
gonna hear most of it from her point of view,
or see it from most most of it from her
point of view and narrators. Obviously, we have Jane, who
is the oldest and fan west and kindest of them all,
kind mannered, best disposition, according to all of the narrations,
(10:08):
Mary the middle and the plain his sister really cruel,
but she's also very serious and scholarly and little too stoic,
to the point that she misreads the room a lot.
Then we have Catherine Kitty, who is the fourth daughter.
She doesn't get as much play because she's not seen
as much, but she's one of the sillier, as her
(10:29):
father would put put it, girls of the family. Then
you have Lydia, who is the youngest and most spoiled
and very loud, and Kitty lives under her shadow, essentially.
Then we have mister Bennett, who is the father, who
is very sarcastic, very stoic, obviously, does not care much
for his wife in personality, but loves his all, loves
(10:51):
his family. But his favorite probably would go with Jane
and Elizabeth because they have the most sense. As he
would say, Then we have Missus Bennett, who is the
mother of very materialistic, very like, disingenuous, judgmental, a little
bit of a kypochondriac, and loves to tell people how
she suffers. Then we have Charlotte Lucas who is Elizabeth's
(11:13):
friend and their neighbor essentially best friend. Mister Collins who
is the cousin of the family and is the male
relation that will be owning a long worn after the
father passes away because he's the next male relative. Then
we have the Gardeners who hit the is. Mister Gardner
is the brother to miss Bennett, Missus Bennett the wife
(11:35):
and his wife who comes into play Missus Gardners. We
have mister and Missus Gardner. Then we have Darcy and Friends.
We have Fitz William Darcy who is the main love
interest male character, proud wealthy owner of Pemberley. We have
Charles Bingley who is a handsome, amiable, wealthy friend who
(11:58):
takes over Netherfield Park which is in that area Meryton
area as well. We have Caroline Bingley who is the
sister to Bingley, who is also very judgmental in high society.
Louisa Hurst, who is also the sister to Bingley and
her husband mister Hurst, who comes into play. We have
our Colonel Fitzwilliams, who is Darcy's cousin that comes just
(12:20):
for a slight scene, but fairly important. We have Lady
Catherine de Bergh, who is the aunt to Darcy, also
very important and the benefactor to benefactress I guess, to Collins,
mister Collins who has a daughter named Anne just you know,
she's not really big, but just you know, you know.
And then we have Georgina Darcy, who is the younger
(12:43):
sister of Darcy.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
There you go, got it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You're welcome. So here is a rundown. I thought I
thought it was gonna be quick, but it is not.
Because I am me and I love the story. Here
we go and go ahead and put this as a
kind of like a warning. I guess. I have watched
the BBC series way too many times to count, like
I own the DVDs. I have found them on Disney,
(13:10):
thank you very much, and I have repeatedly watched them
that I just recently watched them as I was also
listening to the book. Yes I did, so. Some of
these things overlap and how it happens because there's obviously
interpretations when it comes to the filming. Still the best
adaptation to me, of course, it's like eighteen twenty hours long,
and that's why. However, so if I get some of
(13:31):
these things mixed up because it was different on the show,
please forgive me. But it kind of runs in the
same line. And Annie, you're ready, we're gonna go through this.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I swear to got it fast, not right.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So we have the announcement with the infamous starting line,
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man
in possession of a good fortune must be in want
of a wife, obviously, and it begins with an announcement
that Netherfield has been let at last a very eligible bachelor,
which Miss Bennett has set her sights on for her
(14:04):
dear daughters. After some teasing and back and forth with
her husband, mister Bennett, finally it meant to having actually
made introductions to with the new gentleman of the neighborhood,
mister Bingley. So you have to do that first or
it'd be improper. They the women could not talk to him,
remember society. After an encounter at a neighborhood ball at
Bingley falls head over hills for the lovely Jane, which
(14:27):
comes to no surprise. We also meet the sisters Caroline
and Louisa, along with Bingley's best friend mister Darcy, who
was disliked from the moment he opens his mouth, Rude
and too proud many say about him, even to the
point that he refuses to dance at the ball, even
with the lovely Elizabeth, who finds it all a joke
and easily brushes the size and says, I wouldn't even
(14:50):
think about it dancing with him. He's fine, I don't
need him. And as for mister Bingley and Jane, they
seem to hit it off. Even the sisters. Bingley sisters
are incline to like her, even with the fact that
she is has unfortunate connections as a not high society. Later,
Jane is invited to Netherfield while the men are away
(15:10):
to visit with the sisters. Missus Bennett plots instance Jane
off on horseback instead of a carriage as it looks
like rain and she may have to stay at Netherfield
for a bit longer than expected. Jane ends up getting
a cold because yes, it does rain, and having to
remain there for a while and after the weather has cleared,
Elizabeth goes to visit and take care of her sister
(15:31):
at Netherfield because she can't leave her alone obviously, and
of course this leads to her having to interact with
the Bingleys and Darcy, where we find them having a
rousing discussion of false like pride and vanity. Yes, and
here's a quote. Yes, vanity is a weakness indeed, because
she accuses him of that. But pride, where there's this
real superiority of mind, Pride will be always under good regulation.
(15:56):
So he's like, that's not a fault, it's dis earned.
After an embarrassing visit from the mother at Netherfield, and
once Jane is finally recovered, they go home, but we
find out that Darcy is in danger of falling for
Elizabeth and her wit and her charms at this time Reiro.
(16:16):
Soon we have a very entertaining visit from the Bennett's cousin,
mister Collins, who has traveled there not only to reconcile
from past indifferences or past differences, but also possibly bridgid
tie in between tie between them and the Bennetes. Yes,
Collins being the next Bill in the family. Line will
(16:38):
be inheriting Longbourne and has plans of trying to marry
one of his cousins with the blessings of his patronage,
Lady Katherin de Bergh, who is rich and somewhat eccentric
and very narcissistic, but hey. After finding out that Jane
was unavailable, he decides on Elizabeth as his choice. Obviously.
All the while, the militia has moved into Meryton, to
(16:58):
the excitement of Lydia and Kitty and so many others.
Soon we meet Wickham, a handsome and very light man
of the militia, and of course we find out that
Wickham and Darcy have an unfavorable connection. Wickham just says
pretty much that Darcy lies, takes away his money, takes
away his home, and does not like him because Darcy's
father preferred Wickham over himself rout Row. That's a wretched
(17:22):
thing and very very unforgivable according to all the society
and Elizabeth, And soon Wickham shows his affections towards Elizabeth,
who doesn't mind it at all because he's quite nice
and quite nice looking. Later, the gardeners, the aunt and
uncle join who and they are really good influences to
the young ladies and someone Elizabeth sees as people of
(17:43):
good respect and opinions. Missus Gardner, however, advises Elizabeth to
be wary of Wickham and to remember her own status
and needs for a good marriage. You know, you have
to have a good marriage or are you going to
be sad? Soon we have a much awaited gathering, the
much weighting gathering rather at Netherfield with all the people,
including so militia. Unfortunately, Wickham was not able to make
(18:08):
it due to other matters, to Elizabeth's disappointment. But mister Collins,
who's still there, takes up her first two dances and
is very embarrassing and very clumsy about it all. He
just can't get it. Mister Darcy, however, also asks for
a dance, which Elizabeth agrees to after being too stunned
to reject him, and she tries to make conversation does
(18:31):
not go well. After some embarrassing interactions by her family,
Elizabeth and family go back home where the mother was
so excited about all these interactions and the possibility of
these good connections. Soon we have a proposal of marriage
from for Elizabeth from Colin mister Collins, who was rejected
and dejected and flees to the Lucas' home for a
(18:53):
reprieve because you know, embarrassment, and soon find out that
Bingley's and Darcy's have left to go back into town.
Oh no, as in London, like away from Netherfield. Because town.
And also, by the way, this is how I refer
to town and when I was growing up in North Georgia,
because it was far away from my house, so I
would go into town, right. He made fun of me
(19:13):
for that, still do anyway. And at this point we
also find that Charlotte is engaged to mister Collins, to
missus Bennet's displeasure, because she wanted Elizabeth to marry him
as well as if I heard line, her home was
going to be taken over by the Lucases, how dare they?
And she's very mad at Elizabeth, very mad and all
(19:33):
the while, Wickham turns his attentions to a different woman
away from Elizabeth, who has a lot of money, and
Elizabeth accept that he has to marry for money as well,
so you know, understandable. Jane, in her heartbreak, goes off
with her aunt and uncle Gardner's, where she finds out
that the bingley sisters seem to know to want anything
to do with her, and that Bingley may soon be
married to Darcy's sister, Georgiana. Elizabeth embarks on a journey
(19:58):
as well to visit Chara at her new home with
mister Collins, and so many things happened, including getting to
meet the famous lady Catherine de Burgh, running into mister
Darcy and his cousin, Colonel William, who also takes a
liking to Miss Bennett as well, but also doesn't have
any money, so there's that. Soon, she finds out some
very important information. Darcy was intended to marry the Burgh's
(20:20):
daughter Anne, but Darcy wants to marry Elizabeth and proposes
in a very insulting manner, say that he wished she
didn't like her, essentially because she was so far beneath him,
so nice of him. Mister Darcy and Bingley's sister purposely
drove Bingley away from Jane and misled both of them,
and Wickham had lied about his entire situation, and that
(20:43):
actually Wickham had tried to take gotten money instead of
the building that he wanted because all he wanted was money,
and then tried after he ran out of money and
felt duped. He tried to run away with Darcy's younger
sister and make this a really bad situation, which Darcy
discovered them and quickly ran wick them out of town.
(21:05):
So all of that, remember that these are all the
things that she discovered. She was very, very very upset
when we were turning home, in so many secrets that
she had to hide, including from her sister that yes,
there was trickery into the demise of their relationship. So
decides to finally go on vacation with her aunt and
(21:27):
uncle Gardner. They all proceeded to tour Derbyshire, including the
beautiful land of Pemberley, which is owned by the Darcys,
thinking that the owners were not home. But oh, Darcy
arrives unexpectedly is more and it's quite polite and very
very welcoming to her and her family, and throughout that
(21:47):
time she's there, they interact more, making Elizabeth slowly change
her mind about Darcy. Soon she meets his sister, Georgiana,
who she likes immediately, and then she also sees her
all acquaintance, says the Bingleys, including the sisters. Unfortunately, and
as everything seems to be going so well, Elizabeth soon
(22:08):
finds out that oh no, her youngest sister has run
away with Wickham. Oh and she returns home quickly, but
not before telling mister Darcy all of these bad news,
and she knows and he knows what this is about.
And after returning home, she finds the home in a
terrible state and her father out searching for his daughter
along with her uncle Gardner. However, after many days of waiting,
(22:31):
good news comes and we find out that Lydia and
Wickham have married, so making it all right correcting this situation.
Later we find out that Darcy was the main reason
for this, and that he has financially backed the entire marriage.
Soon we have entertaining every interactions between Lady Catherine, who
comes to forbid Lizzie from even thinking about marrying her
(22:55):
Darcy because she's you know, he's intended for her daughter.
And after all that nothing comes about. A bit later
we have a happy ending that we've been waiting for
as Bingley returns and proposes to Jane and tells her
the truth of why he didn't see her and all
the things that had mistakenly happened, And that is soon
followed by Darcy proposing again to Elizabeth and this time
(23:19):
having a different reaction as well as the different approach,
and of course this shocks both her father and mother.
They're like what And soon they are married and live
happily ever after, with her father visiting Elizabeth and Darcy
often to get away from his family, and Elizabeth teaching
Georgiana to be a little shocking as she continues to
(23:40):
tease Darcy throughout their life, rest of their marriage and
life together the end. I love that ending. So in
(24:00):
the in the BBC series, they don't have that ending.
They just have them you know, driving away after their weddings,
so happy and finally kiss. Because they don't kiss. This
is kind of like a like a Korean drama, like
they don't kiss until they of course, to be fair,
it is like supposed to be based in that time,
they don't do that or dear. But in the book
(24:23):
you see a scene where she's teasing Darcy still and
the sisters just like blushing and shocked, but at the
same time like all loving the fact that she stands
up for herself essentially, and I love that scene. I
was like, that's such a great idea. And then also
we find out that Lydia and Wickham are not happy people,
but they're maintaining and often asking for money from them.
(24:46):
But we also don't see in the show where the
gardeners are so well respected. You get an inkling of it.
But in the book they really talk about how like
Darcy really likes them and realizes how upstanding these people
are and all they things. And I really like that
portion of the book. And I was like, oh, wish
there was a better way to interpret how good people
they are, because you don't really see that throughout. But yeah,
(25:10):
so that is the entirety of the book. To go
and watch a good adaptation. Go watch the BBC version, y'all.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We I was like, we should just do that as
our movie for this month.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
That you were like that it's literally the same thing,
but like you should definitely watch it. Of course, there's
several several themes throughout the One of the biggest one
in this class uh. I think the constant back and
forth about status in class, whether it's about the minutes,
uh and their entailment. So we know if we find
(25:44):
out that level of like they're kind of lower on
the ranking because they don't have a son and so
as soon as the father dies, they're screwed, essentially. And
then we have the whole conversation a bit again about
the gardener's being shopkeepers or lawyers, that that's not well
received and as part of society, even how mister Lucas
Colonel I believe, who is a gentleman and in part
(26:06):
of society, is still looked down on because he was
not originally knighted, and so he was knighted after the fact,
and they still looked down on him. About that, you
see that conversation with the Bingleys, the sisters being very
to do about this, and how they really did look upon,
look down on the people of the country side, essentially
(26:26):
of the American country side, and they were not impressed.
Neither was Darcy, and he wasn't it, And about that entailment.
The mother was really upset and could not understand why
this could stand. Of course, her harping at her husband
who had nothing, he could do nothing about it wasn't helpful,
(26:47):
But she's right, who why why can't they stand up
against this? This is just absolutely unfair.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
She is correct, she is correct, And that was one
of the interesting things which I think is going to
go really well with the the next theme we're going
to talk about. But it was interesting to read from
that time how important it was, you know, to get
to marry off your daughters to someone will off hopefully
or you know, the thread of like losing your property.
(27:16):
But it was also kind of funny, like with Collins,
He's like, I'll ask her. She said, no, all right,
I'll try again later. Okay, no, okay, I'll try you.
What do you say? Like it was kind of that
very economic part of marriage, what marriage used to be.
That we were seeing a lot right this.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right, and then there was a quote in there that
we didn't talk about because we the y'all. The scene
between Lady Katherin de Burgh and Elizabeth Uh, when Lady
Katheryn comes and like tells her she forbids her is
a masterclass of like being able to stand up for
yourself and coming back. But at one point, like Katherine
(28:00):
does say, will the shades of Pemberley be thus polluted
by not only Elizabeth's stance in life, but also that
what has just happened between Lydia and Wickham? Because even
though everything kind of had been fixed, there's still a
bit of notoriety of what happened there, and the people
who knew about it know like this was not to
be had and this is definitely a no no. So
(28:23):
with that level of like that level of class, like
these are the people that you're with, these are the
people that you're associated with, which is a big conversation
that happens.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
That was one of the reasons that it was so
Elizabeth was so upset when she heard it. It was
not only like, oh, I know Wickham and now my
sister's been drawn up in this. It was like, my
family is going to be associated with this, And that's
part of the reason why Darcy, despite hating Wickham, went
(28:52):
and tried to fix it, which in this case was
like Okay, you actually are going to have to get married.
But that was another instance of yeah, like the class
of it all being this is gonna really.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Bring us even lower, right like dess essentially, and then
of course another conversation with class is wealth. Wealth was
very very important, and they would compare who had the most,
essentially talking about King I think that's the girl that
Wickham goes after after he leaves Elizabeth because she had
(29:27):
she had inherited ten thousand pounds and that made her
very eligible and so like there's a line I think
they say about like, oh, yeah, so that is a
attribute indeed, like essentially like that is yes, yes, they
talk about the comparison to the fact that, yes, Bingley
has wealth, but Darcy has more wealth, like they have
(29:49):
a whole comparison of what that looks like. And honestly,
because Darcy and Bingley had so much wealth, they could
marry quote unquote someone who was less wealthy and less
u in standing in society, the Bennetts, even though they
were great.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, it was interesting to see that the relationship
between Jane and Bingley because it sort of they sort
of just hit it off, yeah, pretty immediately, and the
mom was so happy about it. Missus Bennett was so
happy about it. She's like, ah, yes, it's gonna work.
But then you have like on Bingley's side, its sisters
(30:25):
being like no, no, yeah, even though they were so
they seemed like such a good match.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, they initially liked Jane a lot, but they immediately said, unfortunately,
her conductions they're something to look at. And they all
were like no, no, no, no, no, even though they liked
Jane as a person, and they were like and yeah,
so that comes to our second theme, which is marriage.
Women must marry well or they are all doomed. So
(30:54):
at least one of them, as Elizabeth and Jane speak
it to each other, have to marry from because that
understanding is that they will take care of the rest
of the children and the mother when the father passes away,
with the assumption that the mother was going to live
outlive the father, which he, mister Bennett does say, I
might outlive you if we can just take that into consideration,
(31:19):
which is yeah, which apparently was a thing that there
was a lot of, like who's going to take care
of us? Who's going to take care of us? Someone
has to get married well, and you need to take
care of us, which again that didn't always happen. I
don't think, yeah, but I think they were given money
right to the family, like they were kind of giving
(31:39):
the dowry was from the woman though.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean essentially women couldn't own property. Yeah, but
I think if like the man, they got married to
a wealthy man, then it's almost as if she gets
to keep the place. It's sort of like a I
don't know, consulatory prig right, but it's not Yeah, I
(32:08):
mean it was really you were just counting on the
guide to actually give you any money a lot of
the time.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Right, And then we have with that alliances the word
fortunate alliance has been made or the phrase has been
made was floated about. We see that with Lucas's talking
about Charlotte getting married to mister Collins who is under
the patronage of Lady Catherine de Burgh, and finding like, Okay,
you have made a good choice here because these alliances
(32:40):
allow us better reputation and better society. I guess role
of women and being out. We have that whole conversation
and the fact that there was a conversation in which
the fact that Jane and Elizabeth were not married but
the younger sisters were out before they were married, and
how that was kind of scandalous.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, And I thought that was interesting too, because Lydia
has this whole thing where she's like, what if I
get married first? Like she was very motivated, which is
the society she was raised and it makes sense, but
she was very motivated to be like I could be
the first one, right that gets married. It was like
(33:25):
a power.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, she has more desire, like they desire her more
and sofore she takes that trump and married women outstrip
single women in general.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Right, And so she was like, really, I'm going to
go I'm going to do it first. And that's part
of why she went and made this pretty reckless decision
at a very young age.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Right. And I'm assuming, like this is assuming because it's
not a part of the book at all. The reason
she came out in society so quickly, it's because she
was a brat and wanted to be a part of
like balls as such, and made her parents let them
all come out, like she's she asked the youngest all
of them had to. That's what I'm assuming.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, And it would also make sense that had a
certain point. One, it's just easier if you've got four daughters,
just let them all go. But also like if you
are we need to find somebody a man, somebody's got
to get married. We'll put them all out there on
(34:27):
the field and see if one of y'all.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Can givebody anybody. Yeah, and then that comes to that
whole competition and trying to get married quickly, the idea
of happiness and marriage or marriage and like a marriage
(34:50):
of love and money, And there's several quotes here, So
here's one. It says from Lizzie talking, I'm determined that
only the deepest love when me into matrimony. So I
shall end an old maid and teach your ten children
to embroader cushions and play their instruments very ill. So
the fact that she would not marry for money, that
(35:11):
she would rather be in love and there's no way
that she would actually get married, and the idea, and
I think that may minic Jane Austen's real sense of marriage,
that she would rather not than doing a loveless marriage,
which is understandable.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, again, I don't know much about this as much
about you, for sure, but like it does feel even
for people now, even for me, like I feel for women,
marriage can be kind of a trap. I'm not saying
it always is, and I'm not saying it can't be
(35:50):
very healthy, but it does sometimes feel like you get
married and then you have to clean the house and
you have to do all like all these things come
with marriage for women that don't necessarily come with men, right,
And so to me, especially at this time when it
(36:11):
was you know, women couldn't really own property in most cases,
and there was all these expectations and all of that.
I can see why Jane Austin would have been like
this just seems like I can't do what I want right,
I can't like write the things I want or just
be who I am if I get married just for
this economic thing.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And you know, Austin doesn't even look at the dark side,
like she just looks at like this like boring and
being suck in the loveless marriage side, like of course
it entails everything else, but she doesn't look at like
the depth of like control and darkness and things that
were happening during that time and still actually that like
oh yeah, this is people suffering and in these situations
(36:53):
and domestic violence situations. So she didn't even talk about that, honestly,
in which Jane kind of references do anything rather than
marry without affection. And then they imply the mother and
the father that they see have married without affection, and
neither one of them want that. Neither one of them
want a marriage where one is condescending and the other
(37:14):
one is always complaining. So there's this level like back
and forth like yeah, they're the prime examples. I don't
think we've all been there of what not to have
in marriages or what they don't want to have in marriages.
And this was that moment of like seeing all of that,
and even the mother talks about the facts at one point,
like the fact that Jane Ann Bingley will be so
(37:37):
giving that they're going to run out of money and
Jay and they will be unhappy, and in which you
know or not that run out of money, that they
would be so kind that they will run out of
their good good will and kindness and their heart and
their love, and the mom's like, they have plenty of money,
they'll be happy forever. Like that's how one's the implication,
which is not again, that's not the level of marriage
(38:00):
that Jane or Elizabeth want in this way. And then
we do have one character Charlotte, Charlotte Lucas who talk
about the fact that she did not have the option
to have a choice either she was going to be
destitute and alone or she's going to have to settle.
So this line is in talking about trying to seduce
a man. This is trying to like trying to make
sure Elizabeth understands that Jane needs to show how much
(38:23):
she could be in love and there are and this
is there are very few who have hard enough to
be really in love without encouragement in that level, because
Jane was being too cautious according to Charlotte. And also, yeah,
Charlotte is the prime example of choosing marriage for contentment
and choosing what she can because she's described as being
(38:46):
also a bit plain. I think she's older, like mid twenties.
Oh no, right, but that's apparently real too old, like
the little spinster level. And so she had to choose
mister Collins and the fact that like, yes, he's a
(39:06):
ridiculous dude who is sexist, misogynist, and just like dumb,
he's not smart. This speech is so good, she writes
so well, it's so funny that she knows what she's
getting into, but she knows that this is the best
option she has in order to live a more fulfilled
quote unquote life where she can be taken care of,
(39:28):
and that's what she says.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I thought that was interesting because Charlotte's and Elizabeth were
close friends. And then when Charlotte, after mister Collins had
proposed to Elizabeth and said, well, you say no now,
but I'll come back and forth. Oh my goodness, that
was really interesting to me because it was so reminiscent
(39:50):
of things I've had or guys are like, I come
back later, I could change your mind. It's like, oh
my gosh, it was happening all to me.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
You're just teasing to make me.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
The no means yes, right, But anyway, he does eventually
be He's like, okay, Elizabeth, no, but he goes to
Charlotte and Charlotte says yes, and Elizabeth and Charlotte. Elizabeth
is really concerned that she's kind of let down, but
Charlotte said yes, and she's concerned about how their relationship
(40:22):
will be moving forward, and Charlotte's kind of like, please
don't cut me out of your life. And Elizabeth does
go visit Charlotte and Lucas's. But it was interesting to
read the I thought there are different takes on Charlotte
being like, you know what, I have to do this
and Elizabeth being so, I'm only going to marry to
(40:44):
Mary for love. But also we've talked about this before.
You have friends and they get married and they move away,
and you're kind of like, okay, that relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Changes, right right, well, you know, and Charlotte knows this
is about a change her relations ship with Elizabeth. There's
several things here that is happening though, because Elizabeth had
put Jane put Charlotte on her level and they thought
she thought they were on the same page essentially, and
that that Charlotte has Charlotte wasn't married because she wouldn't
(41:16):
settle was the idea, when in actuality, from Charlotte's standpoint,
she's never got given the opportunity to to say yes.
And for Charlotte, she doesn't care. She's not a romantic.
She's like, I don't have these ideals like you. I
have not don't need all of that. I just need
to be no note that I'm going to be taken
care of and that I'm going to be okay, and
(41:37):
that he's not going to mistreat me as in like
abuse me, which was that conversation that happens. And then
Jane's being like, you need to be more understanding. This
is not the same place. And that's kind of where
the level like her prejudice, because if we have the characters,
Elizabeth has prejudiced and Darcy has the bride, and that's
(41:58):
the level of conversation we have in this and so
that actually really does show Elizabeth prejudice towards this ideal
of marriage and the fact that she judges her judges
Charlotte so harshly to that kind of like I can't
talk to her, I can't see her. She's changed for
(42:18):
me and I have like we've I think we've all
been there when people were like, why are you dating
that person? What reason? Like you know, and that's gonna
be like and I'm not coming around, not that you're
with that person. We've definitely seen those things happen and
then that conversation and kind of like modern age, but
the level of desperation that Charlotte felt is understandable during
(42:40):
that time. And so I felt like, even though I
love the character of Elizabeth, and I think Jane did
it on purpose, Jane Austin did it on purpose in
that making her show that this is a fault. This
is a giant fault that Elizabeth has where her prejudice
and judgment is a little too much.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, I definitely thought it was the interaction when Lydia
came back to like Elizabeth was rightfully angry, don't get
me wrong, but I thought it was really fascinating how
she was like, I have nothing to say right, you
could be gone right forever, Yes, both of you. Yes,
(43:20):
because I feel like some of us can we've experienced
that where you're just like, you've caused me so much drama, pain.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And in her mind she's cost her a huge relationship too.
At this point, she's thinking that Darcy is judging her
and doesn't want anything to do with her or family
because of what has happened, when in actuality, like there's
different things happening, but like, yeah, like if she definitely does.
And don't get me wrong, she's met at Lydia for
her selfishness, which she knew was coming. She knew that
Lydia was selfish, and yeah, but the next thing was
(43:51):
prejudice as well. That you know. I said, let's talk
about first impressions, the name of the original book, and
how everyone disliked Darcy by judge Darcy because Darcy was
rude she was, and then but loved Wickham because Wickham
was entertaining. And then it turns out the opposite, like
one person has the good intentions and good goodness and
(44:12):
the other one only pretends to be good. We had
that level into that point that Elizabeth. It takes so
much for Elizabeth to change her mind. It takes like
giant stories, and she does not want to fact check anything.
She just how could you not believe this? Of course
he's telling the truth. The story is too precise because
she already had an idea about who Darcy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Was right, and she wanted to to prove it right.
But it was the the dichotomy of like Jane being
so trusting right, oh so like, oh no, they would
never convince Bingley. Bingley's sisters convince him to go against
too much. But then you have Elizabeth who's like almost
(44:54):
too sick, right, Oh, I knew it all along. He
was a bad guy. It was really fun to see
them interact and have their conversations about where Jane's like, no,
that can't be Elizabeth like.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I mean, but I mean Elizabeth says that. At one point,
he's like, until I have your goodness, I'll never have
your happiness.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
He's like, I can't understand how.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Jade and she is. And of course the pride bit
we know that it takes a long time because yeah,
Darcy's proposal real bad. The first one was real bad,
like insulting her in every way and then being shocked
when she says.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
No, Yeah, he's so taken aback, this could not be.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I'll give you I just can't. I just like relinted
to finally liking you even though everything about you is awful.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And he's given her like as the reader, you get
insights into his feelings, right, and as the reader you
kind of know where it's going. But he's really given
her no reason to.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Right and like he's too honest. He is way too
honest for this moment. Of course, he comes back around
with the fact that Lady de Burgh comes back and
first tells him, Oh, I'm going to tell him what
Elizabeth did to me being rude and standing up to me,
and that's going to change his mind because he loves
me so much and he's like, oh she does like
me still, let's go. It's that level. But yes, that
(46:24):
level of pride, and they finally kind of mesh together,
come together and that wonderful union where everything is happily
ever after and everybody has money, lots of money.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yep, the end, everybody has money. Hey, she found the
love and the money.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
That's pretty good, Like she finally found it and good
on her, good on her.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yes, yes, we also didn't mention she's very good at
playing the piano.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
No, she's kind of good.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Well. To me, it felt like he was entranced with
her skills, yes, which I find to be a common
trope in things.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So I think the way it's supposed to be is
that she's okay, but he loves it so much, right,
and like she's like, yeah, I'm okay. I mean it's
not great, but I can play. And then like he's
just like she's the most amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And there's a whole scene where Mary is playing and
she's doing terribly and doesn't get the message.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Oh that whole and they do it so well in
the BBC where everything's like just compacted and you just
feel the secondhand embarrassment because it's like echoed from Jane
Analyzabeth's perspective. They're just like, how do we stop this
train wreck? And they just can't and it just kind
of echoes in her head. Later on, after he proposes
(47:57):
and pretty much reminds her all these embarrassing things he witnessed,
she's like, ah, it's perfect.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, So a lot of awkward, relatable scenes.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yes, So like these are the things that I love
in this book, and to me, This is how like
the BBC portrayed the characters, how I read them better
than the new version of condensed Karen Knightley version because
this whole like, I think both Yeah, both made sure
to have Darcy in like a wet shirt or like
(48:30):
at one point in time, because that's kind of the
infamous thing. I will say. When you start the BBC series,
it feels so over the top acting that it's a
little cringe. You're like, oh, well, why did I think
it was so much better? It gets better, they get better,
but then they also have like I know, the fantasy level,
but like the way they portray the father and the
mother characters really irritated me in the new one because
(48:51):
the father character is so like he looks like he's
gonna cry all the time, and he just looks so
weak and I'm like, that's not the character she built,
like she wanted him pretty much disinterested and just annoyed.
Uh So that's why I like, those characters are really
important to me, and I was like, they need to
be better. This needs to be better. Those are the
(49:12):
big big things that I didn't like. I didn't like
Karen night Lest Patrol Elizabeth. I did like the Jaine character.
Rosemand Pike did a great job with Jane.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Did be inaudible version anyway, that's wow. I love it.
Eighteen hours you.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Say, I don't know, I'm exaggerating. I don't know how
many hours, but it's like, for all at least eight
hours long. I think, Okay, wow, I buy Mike, just
put it on. Put in the background while you're doing
your fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It would give me some inspiration for fans.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
It's been owe to fan fiction and the origination of
fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Austin Knights. Yeah, one of the first fan fiction writers
that we know. M hm.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
And technically I guess like they're not fan fiction, but
the reimagining of it is kind of that level. And
I love every single one of them, essentially, except for
the Karen Knightley one.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
We briefly talked about doing the zombies one yes.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Dude, which you know that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
No, it is interesting that when zombies come in, the
dude comes in. Yeah, maybe in the future, there's a lot.
This was a I mean, I don't think this is
a surprise to anybody, but it was a hugely influential work. Unfortunately,
it seems Jane Austin didn't make a lot of money
from it, but it was It made such a big
(50:44):
impact and we're still seeing it and feeling it. People
still love it. There are tours that we are trying
to go on.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
I really do want to go.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I was the whole time I was reading this halfside.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Like persuasions that makes you want to go to Bath.
I want to go to.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I did renew my passport yesterday.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Good.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
I don't know when it will arrive though, because there's
a huge backlog, but yeah, when it comes, Samantha, I'm
going maybe at least I could go right now. Yes, well, listeners,
I know a lot of you have fondness for this
(51:27):
work thoughts about it. If you would like to write in,
if you have preferences on whatever adaption is the best
or the worst.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You can don't come at me by the Kira Star.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
You can let us know. Our email is stuff Vidia
Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
on Twitter at Mom's taff podcast, or on Instagram and
TikTok at stuff. One ever told you we have a
tea public store and we have that book you can
get wherever you get your books. Things is always to
our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff one
(52:01):
ever told you this production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, you can check out the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph.
I never told your prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Ah. And the time has come, and what time you
may all be asking? That time to bring in the
good old classics. Yes, for our book club, we are
finally coming to one of my all time favorites, Pride
and Prejudice by Jane Austen, And it's a truth universally
(00:39):
acknowledged that are now famous and respected. Writer Jane Austen
really was a woman beyond her time. So let's come
together and discuss one of her more popular novels, Pride
and Prejudice, which actually had a different title, but then
they changed it about and they're like, Okay, no, we
need to make it in this title, which is what
we know it. It's just Pride and Prejudice. Barely. There
(01:02):
was like several other books that had been I think
named that or something along those lines, and so there
was a lot of confusion and she went back and forth. Anyway,
it is now what it is, and sounded like she
did not make much money off of it, y'all. It's
a really sad life. She had a really kind of
sad life. It emulated a lot of through her books,
(01:24):
like you'll see things being told like the whole entailment
when there's not a son born that the like the
next male heir or like related relation will take it,
take over it. And like there was a bit where
one brother there's a book and I forgot which one
because I read it's been a long time takes the
(01:47):
takes the ownership. And in the wheel, they're like, can
you please take care of the mother and the daughters
And he does not. He like just pretty much just
cast them out. It was really sad and gross. Ah,
and it's kind of reminiscent to her life, like it's
not not great. She wasn't given to do even though
she had success pretty early on, she just didn't make
money off of it, which is all sad.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yes, and we have talked about that before. I feel
like it's come up in several episodes. I think it
even came up in our episode on women writing romance.
Briefly it came up. This was inspired by the fact
that I had read that after we read last month's
(02:28):
book club pick Pride, which was a remix of Pride
and Prejudice, it came out. I had never read this
one I feel like we kind of talked about it
in there, and we talked about it in some other
because I feel like I know, like the vague details
of this because you've told me, right, but I don't
(02:48):
know all the specifics right.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And I think I'm geting coviews because we did have
an expert who did tours or if you remember that
episode in England, which I still want to go on, like,
oh my god, I want to go. I want to
go to hear because I think I'm wrong in some
things because she did have brothers, they just ended up
being like not from a wealthy family, all these things,
but like her father was a scholar, all these different things,
(03:12):
and the book was initially called First Impressions, which is
I think it makes a lot of sense, like when
you think about all of that, and the pride and
prejudice came instead so so many different things. Uh, we
did have that episode. We probably need to bring it
back as a classic so I can be corrected. And
what I just said about Jane Austen, but she did
she was like, she did not live a rich life
(03:36):
and she was supposed to marry someone rich and then
that didn't happen. And all these things. So she wanted
to marry for love, and we really really like wrote
about the possibility of being able to do so, but
she didn't. Anyway, before we jump into the actual plot, Annie,
what are your thoughts now that I have forced you
(03:58):
into actually reading the original classic because I've made you
watch Bridget Jones' Diary, which is kind, which is a
retelling of that, as well as we read the book Pride.
So what were your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It was really interesting to come from that perspective, and
I actually think it was sort of helpful because we've
also read Persuasions by Jane Austen and I really like
I enjoyed that too, but I got confused because of
the way they would refer to people, so like miss
whoever right, And there's just a certain part of my
(04:31):
modern brain that's like, that's your cousin, though, So I
would just get confused. So I think it actually helped
me to have read Pride first. I really enjoyed it.
I see why it's been such a lasting classic. It's
got so many great lines. It's very witty, That's why
I told you, And I know people have said that before,
(04:52):
but it's very witty. Like, Elizabeth has just got all
these comebacks, and they're so well thought out and fun.
They're fun to read. I enjoyed all of the like
relationships between like Elizabeth and her father, and then you
got the mother who's like worrying all the time. And
I also thought it was interesting because when you're looking
(05:13):
at the more modern take that Pride did their cell phones,
so things happen much quicker, right, So the whole thing
with Lydia, I was like, well, wow, this is clearly different.
This is like much more stressful because we don't know
where she is.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
We're just going by horsecarash to try. Yeah, there's my
favorite part. It's like the Overnight Express and all these things. Yes,
but yeah, and then also that's why I was like
originally telling you, I was like, I'm not sure how
they're going to do the Lydia the youngest child. But
because in this cake, she's fifteen runs away with a
(05:52):
twenty something year old. Oh, obviously they're like in fo grante.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
As I say, uh, and her reputation would be shot
And I'm like, are they gonna have see because it's
supposed to be one of the things, like age difference
is one of those things as well, like all these
things and I'm like, how are they going to do this?
And she did a wonderful job, and what like what
would be the scandals today? That wasn't they're going to
put someone in jail?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and that was it was still tense and pride.
It was just like resolved much more quickly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Right right, right. She did a great job on that. Yes,
But yeah, so what would you wait it on the
scale of books they read that you've read.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, I really I don't know how to put
it on scales, man. But I did really enjoy it.
And it's funny because I all my friends growing up
loved it, and I just it was never like, oh
I won't read that. I just wasn't into romance, so
I just never did. But I did really enjoy it.
And like I said, I was like, oh, yeah, I
(06:59):
could see you told me you read it in like
one night. I was like, oh, I can because you
just like, oh, I want to see what happens next.
It was a really enjoyable book. And I think it's
pretty impressive that for you know, me coming into it
in the year twenty twenty four, that I was still
like oh yes, yeah, this is hitting. Yeah, yeah, Like
(07:23):
it was really enjoyable and it didn't feel like there
were certainly some things where I was like, oh, that
must be a thing at the time, but mostly I
was like, yeah, this is still people are kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Like this right, And you know what, I had to
come back at the end and say, as annoying as
the mother character is, she's not wrong in something, and
like I was like, yeah, I get it, I get it,
but yeah, let's jump into it and we're gonna start
with the characters because I feel like that needs to
be the breakdown first, or you're you're probably if you
have not read it and you do like to read,
(07:56):
this is something that you should pick up if you
haven't already. I'm gonna be surprised if you haven't. But
for those of you who maybe like naysayers because you
don't understand the level of newness and freshness for this
book during this time and what she was saying about
society Austin in itself again going against the idea, Like
(08:18):
she understood the rules and followed them, however she really
felt like they were ridiculous, as we all do, I think,
and I think we're learning that more and more, and
then there's just the unfair fairness of it all as well.
But she also is like she's a girl's girl, but
not a girl's girl here I will say she has
(08:39):
like Elizabeth the main character. So there's a lot to
be said about this fun fact. Audible has it and
rosemand Pike is the one who reads it. So who
plays Jane in the newer adaptation with Kiera Knightley that
I hate of pride and prejudice HM, just so we
(09:02):
had that and she does squeak with the voices. It
really threw me off though. I was like, she has
a very shrill voice for the mother threw me off,
and I think it's also a kind of like higher
speeds those even shriller right in which she's voicing putpil
job because I do love Rozen Pike. She does a
great job. And so if you want entertaining to listen
(09:22):
and you needed a break from our podcast, which I
hope you don't take a break, but if you need,
you know, but something in between, you should listen to that.
So we have the Bennettes and relations and friends that
(09:44):
you should know about which the main character is Elizabeth,
who's the second oldest daughter in the Bennett family. You're
gonna hear most of it from her point of view,
or see it from most most of it from her
point of view and narrators. Obviously, we have Jane, who
is the oldest and fan west and kindest of them all,
kind mannered, best disposition, according to all of the narrations,
(10:08):
Mary the middle and the plain his sister really cruel,
but she's also very serious and scholarly and little too stoic,
to the point that she misreads the room a lot.
Then we have Catherine Kitty, who is the fourth daughter.
She doesn't get as much play because she's not seen
as much, but she's one of the sillier, as her
(10:29):
father would put put it, girls of the family. Then
you have Lydia, who is the youngest and most spoiled
and very loud, and Kitty lives under her shadow, essentially.
Then we have mister Bennett, who is the father, who
is very sarcastic, very stoic, obviously, does not care much
for his wife in personality, but loves his all, loves
(10:51):
his family. But his favorite probably would go with Jane
and Elizabeth because they have the most sense. As he
would say, Then we have Missus Bennett, who is the
mother of very materialistic, very like, disingenuous, judgmental, a little
bit of a kypochondriac, and loves to tell people how
she suffers. Then we have Charlotte Lucas who is Elizabeth's
(11:13):
friend and their neighbor essentially best friend. Mister Collins who
is the cousin of the family and is the male
relation that will be owning a long worn after the
father passes away because he's the next male relative. Then
we have the Gardeners who hit the is. Mister Gardner
is the brother to miss Bennett, Missus Bennett the wife
(11:35):
and his wife who comes into play Missus Gardners. We
have mister and Missus Gardner. Then we have Darcy and Friends.
We have Fitz William Darcy who is the main love
interest male character, proud wealthy owner of Pemberley. We have
Charles Bingley who is a handsome, amiable, wealthy friend who
(11:58):
takes over Netherfield Park which is in that area Meryton
area as well. We have Caroline Bingley who is the
sister to Bingley, who is also very judgmental in high society.
Louisa Hurst, who is also the sister to Bingley and
her husband mister Hurst, who comes into play. We have
our Colonel Fitzwilliams, who is Darcy's cousin that comes just
(12:20):
for a slight scene, but fairly important. We have Lady
Catherine de Bergh, who is the aunt to Darcy, also
very important and the benefactor to benefactress I guess, to Collins,
mister Collins who has a daughter named Anne just you know,
she's not really big, but just you know, you know.
And then we have Georgina Darcy, who is the younger
(12:43):
sister of Darcy.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
There you go, got it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You're welcome. So here is a rundown. I thought I
thought it was gonna be quick, but it is not.
Because I am me and I love the story. Here
we go and go ahead and put this as a
kind of like a warning. I guess. I have watched
the BBC series way too many times to count, like
I own the DVDs. I have found them on Disney,
(13:10):
thank you very much, and I have repeatedly watched them
that I just recently watched them as I was also
listening to the book. Yes I did, so. Some of
these things overlap and how it happens because there's obviously
interpretations when it comes to the filming. Still the best
adaptation to me, of course, it's like eighteen twenty hours long,
and that's why. However, so if I get some of
(13:31):
these things mixed up because it was different on the show,
please forgive me. But it kind of runs in the
same line. And Annie, you're ready, we're gonna go through this.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I swear to got it fast, not right.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So we have the announcement with the infamous starting line,
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man
in possession of a good fortune must be in want
of a wife, obviously, and it begins with an announcement
that Netherfield has been let at last a very eligible bachelor,
which Miss Bennett has set her sights on for her
(14:04):
dear daughters. After some teasing and back and forth with
her husband, mister Bennett, finally it meant to having actually
made introductions to with the new gentleman of the neighborhood,
mister Bingley. So you have to do that first or
it'd be improper. They the women could not talk to him,
remember society. After an encounter at a neighborhood ball at
Bingley falls head over hills for the lovely Jane, which
(14:27):
comes to no surprise. We also meet the sisters Caroline
and Louisa, along with Bingley's best friend mister Darcy, who
was disliked from the moment he opens his mouth, Rude
and too proud many say about him, even to the
point that he refuses to dance at the ball, even
with the lovely Elizabeth, who finds it all a joke
and easily brushes the size and says, I wouldn't even
(14:50):
think about it dancing with him. He's fine, I don't
need him. And as for mister Bingley and Jane, they
seem to hit it off. Even the sisters. Bingley sisters
are incline to like her, even with the fact that
she is has unfortunate connections as a not high society. Later,
Jane is invited to Netherfield while the men are away
(15:10):
to visit with the sisters. Missus Bennett plots instance Jane
off on horseback instead of a carriage as it looks
like rain and she may have to stay at Netherfield
for a bit longer than expected. Jane ends up getting
a cold because yes, it does rain, and having to
remain there for a while and after the weather has cleared,
Elizabeth goes to visit and take care of her sister
(15:31):
at Netherfield because she can't leave her alone obviously, and
of course this leads to her having to interact with
the Bingleys and Darcy, where we find them having a
rousing discussion of false like pride and vanity. Yes, and
here's a quote. Yes, vanity is a weakness indeed, because
she accuses him of that. But pride, where there's this
real superiority of mind, Pride will be always under good regulation.
(15:56):
So he's like, that's not a fault, it's dis earned.
After an embarrassing visit from the mother at Netherfield, and
once Jane is finally recovered, they go home, but we
find out that Darcy is in danger of falling for
Elizabeth and her wit and her charms at this time Reiro.
(16:16):
Soon we have a very entertaining visit from the Bennett's cousin,
mister Collins, who has traveled there not only to reconcile
from past indifferences or past differences, but also possibly bridgid
tie in between tie between them and the Bennetes. Yes,
Collins being the next Bill in the family. Line will
(16:38):
be inheriting Longbourne and has plans of trying to marry
one of his cousins with the blessings of his patronage,
Lady Katherin de Bergh, who is rich and somewhat eccentric
and very narcissistic, but hey. After finding out that Jane
was unavailable, he decides on Elizabeth as his choice. Obviously.
All the while, the militia has moved into Meryton, to
(16:58):
the excitement of Lydia and Kitty and so many others.
Soon we meet Wickham, a handsome and very light man
of the militia, and of course we find out that
Wickham and Darcy have an unfavorable connection. Wickham just says
pretty much that Darcy lies, takes away his money, takes
away his home, and does not like him because Darcy's
father preferred Wickham over himself rout Row. That's a wretched
(17:22):
thing and very very unforgivable according to all the society
and Elizabeth, And soon Wickham shows his affections towards Elizabeth,
who doesn't mind it at all because he's quite nice
and quite nice looking. Later, the gardeners, the aunt and
uncle join who and they are really good influences to
the young ladies and someone Elizabeth sees as people of
(17:43):
good respect and opinions. Missus Gardner, however, advises Elizabeth to
be wary of Wickham and to remember her own status
and needs for a good marriage. You know, you have
to have a good marriage or are you going to
be sad? Soon we have a much awaited gathering, the
much weighting gathering rather at Netherfield with all the people,
including so militia. Unfortunately, Wickham was not able to make
(18:08):
it due to other matters, to Elizabeth's disappointment. But mister Collins,
who's still there, takes up her first two dances and
is very embarrassing and very clumsy about it all. He
just can't get it. Mister Darcy, however, also asks for
a dance, which Elizabeth agrees to after being too stunned
to reject him, and she tries to make conversation does
(18:31):
not go well. After some embarrassing interactions by her family,
Elizabeth and family go back home where the mother was
so excited about all these interactions and the possibility of
these good connections. Soon we have a proposal of marriage
from for Elizabeth from Colin mister Collins, who was rejected
and dejected and flees to the Lucas' home for a
(18:53):
reprieve because you know, embarrassment, and soon find out that
Bingley's and Darcy's have left to go back into town.
Oh no, as in London, like away from Netherfield. Because town.
And also, by the way, this is how I refer
to town and when I was growing up in North Georgia,
because it was far away from my house, so I
would go into town, right. He made fun of me
(19:13):
for that, still do anyway. And at this point we
also find that Charlotte is engaged to mister Collins, to
missus Bennet's displeasure, because she wanted Elizabeth to marry him
as well as if I heard line, her home was
going to be taken over by the Lucases, how dare they?
And she's very mad at Elizabeth, very mad and all
(19:33):
the while, Wickham turns his attentions to a different woman
away from Elizabeth, who has a lot of money, and
Elizabeth accept that he has to marry for money as well,
so you know, understandable. Jane, in her heartbreak, goes off
with her aunt and uncle Gardner's, where she finds out
that the bingley sisters seem to know to want anything
to do with her, and that Bingley may soon be
married to Darcy's sister, Georgiana. Elizabeth embarks on a journey
(19:58):
as well to visit Chara at her new home with
mister Collins, and so many things happened, including getting to
meet the famous lady Catherine de Burgh, running into mister
Darcy and his cousin, Colonel William, who also takes a
liking to Miss Bennett as well, but also doesn't have
any money, so there's that. Soon, she finds out some
very important information. Darcy was intended to marry the Burgh's
(20:20):
daughter Anne, but Darcy wants to marry Elizabeth and proposes
in a very insulting manner, say that he wished she
didn't like her, essentially because she was so far beneath him,
so nice of him. Mister Darcy and Bingley's sister purposely
drove Bingley away from Jane and misled both of them,
and Wickham had lied about his entire situation, and that
(20:43):
actually Wickham had tried to take gotten money instead of
the building that he wanted because all he wanted was money,
and then tried after he ran out of money and
felt duped. He tried to run away with Darcy's younger
sister and make this a really bad situation, which Darcy
discovered them and quickly ran wick them out of town.
(21:05):
So all of that, remember that these are all the
things that she discovered. She was very, very very upset
when we were turning home, in so many secrets that
she had to hide, including from her sister that yes,
there was trickery into the demise of their relationship. So
decides to finally go on vacation with her aunt and
(21:27):
uncle Gardner. They all proceeded to tour Derbyshire, including the
beautiful land of Pemberley, which is owned by the Darcys,
thinking that the owners were not home. But oh, Darcy
arrives unexpectedly is more and it's quite polite and very
very welcoming to her and her family, and throughout that
(21:47):
time she's there, they interact more, making Elizabeth slowly change
her mind about Darcy. Soon she meets his sister, Georgiana,
who she likes immediately, and then she also sees her
all acquaintance, says the Bingleys, including the sisters. Unfortunately, and
as everything seems to be going so well, Elizabeth soon
(22:08):
finds out that oh no, her youngest sister has run
away with Wickham. Oh and she returns home quickly, but
not before telling mister Darcy all of these bad news,
and she knows and he knows what this is about.
And after returning home, she finds the home in a
terrible state and her father out searching for his daughter
along with her uncle Gardner. However, after many days of waiting,
(22:31):
good news comes and we find out that Lydia and
Wickham have married, so making it all right correcting this situation.
Later we find out that Darcy was the main reason
for this, and that he has financially backed the entire marriage.
Soon we have entertaining every interactions between Lady Catherine, who
comes to forbid Lizzie from even thinking about marrying her
(22:55):
Darcy because she's you know, he's intended for her daughter.
And after all that nothing comes about. A bit later
we have a happy ending that we've been waiting for
as Bingley returns and proposes to Jane and tells her
the truth of why he didn't see her and all
the things that had mistakenly happened, And that is soon
followed by Darcy proposing again to Elizabeth and this time
(23:19):
having a different reaction as well as the different approach,
and of course this shocks both her father and mother.
They're like what And soon they are married and live
happily ever after, with her father visiting Elizabeth and Darcy
often to get away from his family, and Elizabeth teaching
Georgiana to be a little shocking as she continues to
(23:40):
tease Darcy throughout their life, rest of their marriage and
life together the end. I love that ending. So in
(24:00):
the in the BBC series, they don't have that ending.
They just have them you know, driving away after their weddings,
so happy and finally kiss. Because they don't kiss. This
is kind of like a like a Korean drama, like
they don't kiss until they of course, to be fair,
it is like supposed to be based in that time,
they don't do that or dear. But in the book
(24:23):
you see a scene where she's teasing Darcy still and
the sisters just like blushing and shocked, but at the
same time like all loving the fact that she stands
up for herself essentially, and I love that scene. I
was like, that's such a great idea. And then also
we find out that Lydia and Wickham are not happy people,
but they're maintaining and often asking for money from them.
(24:46):
But we also don't see in the show where the
gardeners are so well respected. You get an inkling of it.
But in the book they really talk about how like
Darcy really likes them and realizes how upstanding these people
are and all they things. And I really like that
portion of the book. And I was like, oh, wish
there was a better way to interpret how good people
they are, because you don't really see that throughout. But yeah,
(25:10):
so that is the entirety of the book. To go
and watch a good adaptation. Go watch the BBC version, y'all.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We I was like, we should just do that as
our movie for this month.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
That you were like that it's literally the same thing,
but like you should definitely watch it. Of course, there's
several several themes throughout the One of the biggest one
in this class uh. I think the constant back and
forth about status in class, whether it's about the minutes,
uh and their entailment. So we know if we find
(25:44):
out that level of like they're kind of lower on
the ranking because they don't have a son and so
as soon as the father dies, they're screwed, essentially. And
then we have the whole conversation a bit again about
the gardener's being shopkeepers or lawyers, that that's not well
received and as part of society, even how mister Lucas
Colonel I believe, who is a gentleman and in part
(26:06):
of society, is still looked down on because he was
not originally knighted, and so he was knighted after the fact,
and they still looked down on him. About that, you
see that conversation with the Bingleys, the sisters being very
to do about this, and how they really did look upon,
look down on the people of the country side, essentially
(26:26):
of the American country side, and they were not impressed.
Neither was Darcy, and he wasn't it, And about that entailment.
The mother was really upset and could not understand why
this could stand. Of course, her harping at her husband
who had nothing, he could do nothing about it wasn't helpful,
(26:47):
But she's right, who why why can't they stand up
against this? This is just absolutely unfair.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
She is correct, she is correct, And that was one
of the interesting things which I think is going to
go really well with the the next theme we're going
to talk about. But it was interesting to read from
that time how important it was, you know, to get
to marry off your daughters to someone will off hopefully
or you know, the thread of like losing your property.
(27:16):
But it was also kind of funny, like with Collins,
He's like, I'll ask her. She said, no, all right,
I'll try again later. Okay, no, okay, I'll try you.
What do you say? Like it was kind of that
very economic part of marriage, what marriage used to be.
That we were seeing a lot right this.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right, and then there was a quote in there that
we didn't talk about because we the y'all. The scene
between Lady Katherin de Burgh and Elizabeth Uh, when Lady
Katheryn comes and like tells her she forbids her is
a masterclass of like being able to stand up for
yourself and coming back. But at one point, like Katherine
(28:00):
does say, will the shades of Pemberley be thus polluted
by not only Elizabeth's stance in life, but also that
what has just happened between Lydia and Wickham? Because even
though everything kind of had been fixed, there's still a
bit of notoriety of what happened there, and the people
who knew about it know like this was not to
be had and this is definitely a no no. So
(28:23):
with that level of like that level of class, like
these are the people that you're with, these are the
people that you're associated with, which is a big conversation
that happens.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
That was one of the reasons that it was so
Elizabeth was so upset when she heard it. It was
not only like, oh, I know Wickham and now my
sister's been drawn up in this. It was like, my
family is going to be associated with this, And that's
part of the reason why Darcy, despite hating Wickham, went
(28:52):
and tried to fix it, which in this case was
like Okay, you actually are going to have to get married.
But that was another instance of yeah, like the class
of it all being this is gonna really.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Bring us even lower, right like dess essentially, and then
of course another conversation with class is wealth. Wealth was
very very important, and they would compare who had the most,
essentially talking about King I think that's the girl that
Wickham goes after after he leaves Elizabeth because she had
(29:27):
she had inherited ten thousand pounds and that made her
very eligible and so like there's a line I think
they say about like, oh, yeah, so that is a
attribute indeed, like essentially like that is yes, yes, they
talk about the comparison to the fact that, yes, Bingley
has wealth, but Darcy has more wealth, like they have
(29:49):
a whole comparison of what that looks like. And honestly,
because Darcy and Bingley had so much wealth, they could
marry quote unquote someone who was less wealthy and less
u in standing in society, the Bennetts, even though they
were great.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, it was interesting to see that the relationship
between Jane and Bingley because it sort of they sort
of just hit it off, yeah, pretty immediately, and the
mom was so happy about it. Missus Bennett was so
happy about it. She's like, ah, yes, it's gonna work.
But then you have like on Bingley's side, its sisters
(30:25):
being like no, no, yeah, even though they were so
they seemed like such a good match.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, they initially liked Jane a lot, but they immediately said, unfortunately,
her conductions they're something to look at. And they all
were like no, no, no, no, no, even though they liked
Jane as a person, and they were like and yeah,
so that comes to our second theme, which is marriage.
Women must marry well or they are all doomed. So
(30:54):
at least one of them, as Elizabeth and Jane speak
it to each other, have to marry from because that
understanding is that they will take care of the rest
of the children and the mother when the father passes away,
with the assumption that the mother was going to live
outlive the father, which he, mister Bennett does say, I
might outlive you if we can just take that into consideration,
(31:19):
which is yeah, which apparently was a thing that there
was a lot of, like who's going to take care
of us? Who's going to take care of us? Someone
has to get married well, and you need to take
care of us, which again that didn't always happen. I
don't think, yeah, but I think they were given money
right to the family, like they were kind of giving
(31:39):
the dowry was from the woman though.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean essentially women couldn't own property. Yeah, but
I think if like the man, they got married to
a wealthy man, then it's almost as if she gets
to keep the place. It's sort of like a I
don't know, consulatory prig right, but it's not Yeah, I
(32:08):
mean it was really you were just counting on the
guide to actually give you any money a lot of
the time.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Right, And then we have with that alliances the word
fortunate alliance has been made or the phrase has been
made was floated about. We see that with Lucas's talking
about Charlotte getting married to mister Collins who is under
the patronage of Lady Catherine de Burgh, and finding like, Okay,
you have made a good choice here because these alliances
(32:40):
allow us better reputation and better society. I guess role
of women and being out. We have that whole conversation
and the fact that there was a conversation in which
the fact that Jane and Elizabeth were not married but
the younger sisters were out before they were married, and
how that was kind of scandalous.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, And I thought that was interesting too, because Lydia
has this whole thing where she's like, what if I
get married first? Like she was very motivated, which is
the society she was raised and it makes sense, but
she was very motivated to be like I could be
the first one, right that gets married. It was like
(33:25):
a power.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, she has more desire, like they desire her more
and sofore she takes that trump and married women outstrip
single women in general.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Right, And so she was like, really, I'm going to
go I'm going to do it first. And that's part
of why she went and made this pretty reckless decision
at a very young age.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Right. And I'm assuming, like this is assuming because it's
not a part of the book at all. The reason
she came out in society so quickly, it's because she
was a brat and wanted to be a part of
like balls as such, and made her parents let them
all come out, like she's she asked the youngest all
of them had to. That's what I'm assuming.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, And it would also make sense that had a
certain point. One, it's just easier if you've got four daughters,
just let them all go. But also like if you
are we need to find somebody a man, somebody's got
to get married. We'll put them all out there on
(34:27):
the field and see if one of y'all.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Can givebody anybody. Yeah, and then that comes to that
whole competition and trying to get married quickly, the idea
of happiness and marriage or marriage and like a marriage
(34:50):
of love and money, And there's several quotes here, So
here's one. It says from Lizzie talking, I'm determined that
only the deepest love when me into matrimony. So I
shall end an old maid and teach your ten children
to embroader cushions and play their instruments very ill. So
the fact that she would not marry for money, that
(35:11):
she would rather be in love and there's no way
that she would actually get married, and the idea, and
I think that may minic Jane Austen's real sense of marriage,
that she would rather not than doing a loveless marriage,
which is understandable.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, again, I don't know much about this as much
about you, for sure, but like it does feel even
for people now, even for me, like I feel for women,
marriage can be kind of a trap. I'm not saying
it always is, and I'm not saying it can't be
(35:50):
very healthy, but it does sometimes feel like you get
married and then you have to clean the house and
you have to do all like all these things come
with marriage for women that don't necessarily come with men, right,
And so to me, especially at this time when it
(36:11):
was you know, women couldn't really own property in most cases,
and there was all these expectations and all of that.
I can see why Jane Austin would have been like
this just seems like I can't do what I want right,
I can't like write the things I want or just
be who I am if I get married just for
this economic thing.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And you know, Austin doesn't even look at the dark side,
like she just looks at like this like boring and
being suck in the loveless marriage side, like of course
it entails everything else, but she doesn't look at like
the depth of like control and darkness and things that
were happening during that time and still actually that like
oh yeah, this is people suffering and in these situations
(36:53):
and domestic violence situations. So she didn't even talk about that, honestly,
in which Jane kind of references do anything rather than
marry without affection. And then they imply the mother and
the father that they see have married without affection, and
neither one of them want that. Neither one of them
want a marriage where one is condescending and the other
(37:14):
one is always complaining. So there's this level like back
and forth like yeah, they're the prime examples. I don't
think we've all been there of what not to have
in marriages or what they don't want to have in marriages.
And this was that moment of like seeing all of that,
and even the mother talks about the facts at one point,
like the fact that Jane Ann Bingley will be so
(37:37):
giving that they're going to run out of money and
Jay and they will be unhappy, and in which you
know or not that run out of money, that they
would be so kind that they will run out of
their good good will and kindness and their heart and
their love, and the mom's like, they have plenty of money,
they'll be happy forever. Like that's how one's the implication,
which is not again, that's not the level of marriage
(38:00):
that Jane or Elizabeth want in this way. And then
we do have one character Charlotte, Charlotte Lucas who talk
about the fact that she did not have the option
to have a choice either she was going to be
destitute and alone or she's going to have to settle.
So this line is in talking about trying to seduce
a man. This is trying to like trying to make
sure Elizabeth understands that Jane needs to show how much
(38:23):
she could be in love and there are and this
is there are very few who have hard enough to
be really in love without encouragement in that level, because
Jane was being too cautious according to Charlotte. And also, yeah,
Charlotte is the prime example of choosing marriage for contentment
and choosing what she can because she's described as being
(38:46):
also a bit plain. I think she's older, like mid twenties.
Oh no, right, but that's apparently real too old, like
the little spinster level. And so she had to choose
mister Collins and the fact that like, yes, he's a
(39:06):
ridiculous dude who is sexist, misogynist, and just like dumb,
he's not smart. This speech is so good, she writes
so well, it's so funny that she knows what she's
getting into, but she knows that this is the best
option she has in order to live a more fulfilled
quote unquote life where she can be taken care of,
(39:28):
and that's what she says.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I thought that was interesting because Charlotte's and Elizabeth were
close friends. And then when Charlotte, after mister Collins had
proposed to Elizabeth and said, well, you say no now,
but I'll come back and forth. Oh my goodness, that
was really interesting to me because it was so reminiscent
(39:50):
of things I've had or guys are like, I come
back later, I could change your mind. It's like, oh
my gosh, it was happening all to me.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
You're just teasing to make me.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
The no means yes, right, But anyway, he does eventually
be He's like, okay, Elizabeth, no, but he goes to
Charlotte and Charlotte says yes, and Elizabeth and Charlotte. Elizabeth
is really concerned that she's kind of let down, but
Charlotte said yes, and she's concerned about how their relationship
(40:22):
will be moving forward, and Charlotte's kind of like, please
don't cut me out of your life. And Elizabeth does
go visit Charlotte and Lucas's. But it was interesting to
read the I thought there are different takes on Charlotte
being like, you know what, I have to do this
and Elizabeth being so, I'm only going to marry to
(40:44):
Mary for love. But also we've talked about this before.
You have friends and they get married and they move away,
and you're kind of like, okay, that relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Changes, right right, well, you know, and Charlotte knows this
is about a change her relations ship with Elizabeth. There's
several things here that is happening though, because Elizabeth had
put Jane put Charlotte on her level and they thought
she thought they were on the same page essentially, and
that that Charlotte has Charlotte wasn't married because she wouldn't
(41:16):
settle was the idea, when in actuality, from Charlotte's standpoint,
she's never got given the opportunity to to say yes.
And for Charlotte, she doesn't care. She's not a romantic.
She's like, I don't have these ideals like you. I
have not don't need all of that. I just need
to be no note that I'm going to be taken
care of and that I'm going to be okay, and
(41:37):
that he's not going to mistreat me as in like
abuse me, which was that conversation that happens. And then
Jane's being like, you need to be more understanding. This
is not the same place. And that's kind of where
the level like her prejudice, because if we have the characters,
Elizabeth has prejudiced and Darcy has the bride, and that's
(41:58):
the level of conversation we have in this and so
that actually really does show Elizabeth prejudice towards this ideal
of marriage and the fact that she judges her judges
Charlotte so harshly to that kind of like I can't
talk to her, I can't see her. She's changed for
(42:18):
me and I have like we've I think we've all
been there when people were like, why are you dating
that person? What reason? Like you know, and that's gonna
be like and I'm not coming around, not that you're
with that person. We've definitely seen those things happen and
then that conversation and kind of like modern age, but
the level of desperation that Charlotte felt is understandable during
(42:40):
that time. And so I felt like, even though I
love the character of Elizabeth, and I think Jane did
it on purpose, Jane Austin did it on purpose in
that making her show that this is a fault. This
is a giant fault that Elizabeth has where her prejudice
and judgment is a little too much.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, I definitely thought it was the interaction when Lydia
came back to like Elizabeth was rightfully angry, don't get
me wrong, but I thought it was really fascinating how
she was like, I have nothing to say right, you
could be gone right forever, Yes, both of you. Yes,
(43:20):
because I feel like some of us can we've experienced
that where you're just like, you've caused me so much drama, pain.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And in her mind she's cost her a huge relationship too.
At this point, she's thinking that Darcy is judging her
and doesn't want anything to do with her or family
because of what has happened, when in actuality, like there's
different things happening, but like, yeah, like if she definitely does.
And don't get me wrong, she's met at Lydia for
her selfishness, which she knew was coming. She knew that
Lydia was selfish, and yeah, but the next thing was
(43:51):
prejudice as well. That you know. I said, let's talk
about first impressions, the name of the original book, and
how everyone disliked Darcy by judge Darcy because Darcy was
rude she was, and then but loved Wickham because Wickham
was entertaining. And then it turns out the opposite, like
one person has the good intentions and good goodness and
(44:12):
the other one only pretends to be good. We had
that level into that point that Elizabeth. It takes so
much for Elizabeth to change her mind. It takes like
giant stories, and she does not want to fact check anything.
She just how could you not believe this? Of course
he's telling the truth. The story is too precise because
she already had an idea about who Darcy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Was right, and she wanted to to prove it right.
But it was the the dichotomy of like Jane being
so trusting right, oh so like, oh no, they would
never convince Bingley. Bingley's sisters convince him to go against
too much. But then you have Elizabeth who's like almost
(44:54):
too sick, right, Oh, I knew it all along. He
was a bad guy. It was really fun to see
them interact and have their conversations about where Jane's like, no,
that can't be Elizabeth like.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I mean, but I mean Elizabeth says that. At one point,
he's like, until I have your goodness, I'll never have
your happiness.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
He's like, I can't understand how.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Jade and she is. And of course the pride bit
we know that it takes a long time because yeah,
Darcy's proposal real bad. The first one was real bad,
like insulting her in every way and then being shocked
when she says.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
No, Yeah, he's so taken aback, this could not be.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I'll give you I just can't. I just like relinted
to finally liking you even though everything about you is awful.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And he's given her like as the reader, you get
insights into his feelings, right, and as the reader you
kind of know where it's going. But he's really given
her no reason to.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Right and like he's too honest. He is way too
honest for this moment. Of course, he comes back around
with the fact that Lady de Burgh comes back and
first tells him, Oh, I'm going to tell him what
Elizabeth did to me being rude and standing up to me,
and that's going to change his mind because he loves
me so much and he's like, oh she does like
me still, let's go. It's that level. But yes, that
(46:24):
level of pride, and they finally kind of mesh together,
come together and that wonderful union where everything is happily
ever after and everybody has money, lots of money.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yep, the end, everybody has money. Hey, she found the
love and the money.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
That's pretty good, Like she finally found it and good
on her, good on her.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yes, yes, we also didn't mention she's very good at
playing the piano.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
No, she's kind of good.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Well. To me, it felt like he was entranced with
her skills, yes, which I find to be a common
trope in things.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So I think the way it's supposed to be is
that she's okay, but he loves it so much, right,
and like she's like, yeah, I'm okay. I mean it's
not great, but I can play. And then like he's
just like she's the most amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And there's a whole scene where Mary is playing and
she's doing terribly and doesn't get the message.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Oh that whole and they do it so well in
the BBC where everything's like just compacted and you just
feel the secondhand embarrassment because it's like echoed from Jane
Analyzabeth's perspective. They're just like, how do we stop this
train wreck? And they just can't and it just kind
of echoes in her head. Later on, after he proposes
(47:57):
and pretty much reminds her all these embarrassing things he witnessed,
she's like, ah, it's perfect.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, So a lot of awkward, relatable scenes.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yes, So like these are the things that I love
in this book, and to me, This is how like
the BBC portrayed the characters, how I read them better
than the new version of condensed Karen Knightley version because
this whole like, I think both Yeah, both made sure
to have Darcy in like a wet shirt or like
(48:30):
at one point in time, because that's kind of the
infamous thing. I will say. When you start the BBC series,
it feels so over the top acting that it's a
little cringe. You're like, oh, well, why did I think
it was so much better? It gets better, they get better,
but then they also have like I know, the fantasy level,
but like the way they portray the father and the
mother characters really irritated me in the new one because
(48:51):
the father character is so like he looks like he's
gonna cry all the time, and he just looks so
weak and I'm like, that's not the character she built,
like she wanted him pretty much disinterested and just annoyed.
Uh So that's why I like, those characters are really
important to me, and I was like, they need to
be better. This needs to be better. Those are the
(49:12):
big big things that I didn't like. I didn't like
Karen night Lest Patrol Elizabeth. I did like the Jaine character.
Rosemand Pike did a great job with Jane.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Did be inaudible version anyway, that's wow. I love it.
Eighteen hours you.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Say, I don't know, I'm exaggerating. I don't know how
many hours, but it's like, for all at least eight
hours long. I think, Okay, wow, I buy Mike, just
put it on. Put in the background while you're doing
your fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It would give me some inspiration for fans.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
It's been owe to fan fiction and the origination of
fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Austin Knights. Yeah, one of the first fan fiction writers
that we know. M hm.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
And technically I guess like they're not fan fiction, but
the reimagining of it is kind of that level. And
I love every single one of them, essentially, except for
the Karen Knightley one.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
We briefly talked about doing the zombies one yes.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Dude, which you know that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
No, it is interesting that when zombies come in, the
dude comes in. Yeah, maybe in the future, there's a lot.
This was a I mean, I don't think this is
a surprise to anybody, but it was a hugely influential work. Unfortunately,
it seems Jane Austin didn't make a lot of money
from it, but it was It made such a big
(50:44):
impact and we're still seeing it and feeling it. People
still love it. There are tours that we are trying
to go on.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
I really do want to go.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I was the whole time I was reading this halfside.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Like persuasions that makes you want to go to Bath.
I want to go to.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I did renew my passport yesterday.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Good.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
I don't know when it will arrive though, because there's
a huge backlog, but yeah, when it comes, Samantha, I'm
going maybe at least I could go right now. Yes, well, listeners,
I know a lot of you have fondness for this
(51:27):
work thoughts about it. If you would like to write in,
if you have preferences on whatever adaption is the best
or the worst.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You can don't come at me by the Kira Star.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
You can let us know. Our email is stuff Vidia
Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
on Twitter at Mom's taff podcast, or on Instagram and
TikTok at stuff. One ever told you we have a
tea public store and we have that book you can
get wherever you get your books. Things is always to
our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff one
(52:01):
ever told you this production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, you can check out the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Hosts And Creators
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Samantha McVey
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