January 29, 2024 • 25 mins
Continuing our reviews of tabletop games, we go retro with the very dated (and gendered) game Girl Talk. We talk tech and tropes. Will we ever get a date??
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
never told your production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to I Guess kind of Part two Man
Me and My part. So many segments because this is
an extended we're going to talk a lot about board
games forever, because we love board games, and we feel
like we should be open, welcoming, safe place for those
(00:38):
who identify as non binary, film whatever to love board games.
You know, you know, and so therefore we will continually
talk about them. But in this one, we're gonna throw
it back with our adventures here. I mean to throw
it back to nineteen eighty nine, and I was thinking,
(00:58):
first of all, I was around nine when this came
out to date myself, but it was a couple of years.
I had just come to the US a couple of
years before, so very new to this whole US. Because
I don't think there's any version of this game. I'm
sure there's versions of dating games, but not this game.
In Korea, maybe there was because Hasbro bought it out
(01:21):
I think in nineteen ninety three. Originally it was with
a different gaming company. But you were either a toddler
or infant, or were you just born.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
As a year old.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Okay, then yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't't talk about this anymore,
but yes, and we were talking about one of these
games that I remember playing but I never owned, because
this is a rich girl, middle class game that I
was not a part of. My friends were and they
let me play this game. And honestly, while we were
(01:53):
like we were researching this, I remember the original board
game girl Talk, which is truth or Dare and Annie, oh, yeah,
you might need to find that because I forgot about
this one. Because there are dairs, including calling boys on
the phone.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I remembered this, and if.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You don't do it, you have to wear a ZiT
on your face like they have stickers.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I would be.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Shocked if I can find a complete set that actually
has ZiT stickers, because you went through those.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I did You did?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, No, I mean you went through the stickers. I
tried to find it.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh you did, Yes, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because this is loosely based on it was an episode
a Monday Mini we did, yeah, a year ago, maybe
more about these games we remembered from our childhood. And
you mentioned a bunch and then I purchased them.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Such a gift to you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, it's a wonderful gift. So I remember I couldn't
find truth or dare I would.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Be shocked to find it. I remember there's also a
phone one. There's a phone book one where it's a
shape of a phone and you have and I I
remember like my friend I think owned all of these games.
She was an only child, very sweet, very spoiled. He
got all the things, and this this was our collection.
So whenever I would go over, which was every weekend
we were very close friends, we would play these games.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The zip one.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yes, you ran out of the stickers pretty quickly because
there was a lot of things I would not do.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, I mean, like I'm imagining now, I would just
like try to find a friend of mine and call hi,
right right.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
But yeah, So this is a part of those games.
And the one we're talking about is Girls Talk Dateline
I think we previously mentioned, which has to include a
cassette player. And Annie and I are like frazzle looking around.
I now forgot and Annie actually bought me a damn
cassette player, y'all.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And it threw back so hard.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The rewind you fast forward button really really had me tricked.
The trying to like plug up the speaker, which we
do you have a video? The audio is so quiet. Yeah,
I think like y'all have to turn up the volume
super super loud because you had to like be in
complete silence with our ears to the speaker to hear
whether or not we have a date.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, So essentially it like came with a very interesting
tech device. But it was like a little call box
and you would plug that into the headphone auxiliary cable
like space. But so at first we didn't think it
was working because we couldn't hear anything. We turned the
volume all the way up and you could barely hear
(04:33):
it right coming from it. So yeah, it was quiet.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
It was very quiet.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We were just like we were both of us silent
trying to figure out if we won. But yeah, so
this was one of those games. And apparently the Girls
Talk board game was created by Catherine Rondeau, and I
hope I said that right. I did not see the
other games credited to her, which I wouldn't doubt that
(05:03):
what they were because Girl Talking itself was a brand.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
They had a whole level.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Apparently there was like Disney versions including that so raven
Girl Talk games.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I saw this on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I don't know how recent that was, So if any
of y'all had the Disney version, I think I outgrew
it by this point, surprisingly, So if y'all have this,
please let us know and let us know what they
looked like, because apparently there's three collabse with Disney shows.
But yeah, before we talk about what we played and
how it turned out, thought we would talk a little
bit about the game.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So this is a first player.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
This game is instructions, and there's so many articles y'all
says this, be the first player to match all your
teen cards with dates, then find a date for yourself.
The first player to get rid of all their teen
cards by making dates wins. And in this you were
automatically assumed to be a woman who was heterosexual, so
(05:56):
you know, giant red flags here. And yeah, so I
went through and looked at different articles reviewing the game.
It was kind of difficult, except for similar to what
we've done, which is to review it ourselves, and they're
all all of everybody was like, this is really bad,
this is really sexist.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
What the hell?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Essentially was the comment in all of it, And yeah,
so we have to go to the pictures, which was
we had a delightful giant game night with all I
believe pretty much all iHeart people that came and friend
of the show Eves, who you hear once a month
with female First, she went through these cards and was
(06:37):
so excited to talk about the boys and girls that
were the options. I really I feel like we missed
out not having her hair playing that with us because
she was super excited. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Like, essentially these cards just kind of like very short
dating profiles that are like, likes ponies, soccer, dislikes party, Scott.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
She really hates Scott, but yeah, she loves Scott. No,
I don't inside inside well spoiler alert.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, So they're very kind of comical, just brief interest
and dislikes that you're supposed to be able to match
a boy and a girl together based on those. And
Eves was loving just reading the descriptions and looking at
the pictures because it is from the eighties, so you know,
the fashion, the looks of change.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The fashion the copies like some of them include what
was it?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Cheerleading? Which is this fine?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
The beach jewelry, hates bugs, baby hitting gym class.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
My favorite was there were like two clear nerds and
one the dude nerd loved bugs and I was like,
oh no, so I can't match with this Birthways Bugs.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's just kind of comical. It was quite funny.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The whole Yeah, the whole level is absurd, but genuinely
like concerning and I will say, really simple, to the
point that it was so simple that we thought we
were doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah. I think we, Like, there was one thing we
got wrong but we figured out later, which was what
like where do you replace the cards if your date fails?
Where do you put them back? And I think, right,
we mixed that up at first, but we figured it out.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, we we I mean we got there.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
And yeah, okay, like I said, we're not the only
ones that were like, let's look back at these games
and see what this seems like or this let's see
what this is. This was from the Department, a podcast
about trends, and they did a whole slumber party series
and a part of that is obviously, if you're from
the eighties doing the slumber parties, you're going to play
these games, which also included mal Madness.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Which was also on another list with girl.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Talk about being problematic games it's problematic sexist games.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And I was like, yeah, we talked about that too,
it's bad.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
But in here they do talk about both Girl Talk
and the spin off Girl Talk date Line, and it
says this, the game was such a hit, it spun
off Girl Talk Truth or Dare was such a hit.
It spun off into a travel edition and a Girl's
Talk dateline quote, a game about the two things girls
like best talking on the phone and boys. And you
(09:42):
know that's on the actual commercial, which is nonsense. There's
no talk until the end. And that's what it says,
which was a super clunky and heteronormative game to match
up your boy and your girlfriends, who were also extremely
biased and all white. Using a clunky cassette tape. You
(10:02):
matched up stale gender roles and reinforced caustic stereotypes. I mean, yes, yes,
there's there's nothing you could really.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Argue, like, there's that level.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And not only is it that way, but if you
play it, your I guess announcer, your mediator Tracy yes, yeah,
who apparently has a Wisconsin access and one was like, oh,
different girls from Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I was like, why do you note that?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, we'll tell you whether or not it was a
match or not match, and usually says some sexist things
in between, like oh, no, the girls are all talking
and who I thought he was gonna have to date
all of them type of thing because they're all giggling
in the background, which I'm not gonna lie. I have
had a moment where I'm with my friends and we
were giggling in the background while talking to boys, So
(10:53):
I can't say it's too far of a stretch.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
She could be a little mean.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She was real mean to me especially. I feel like, oh, like, girl,
back off.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I don't need this, I don't need this. Life just
got rejected. I don't need this from you too.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I feel like for anyone who doesn't know what we're
talking about, like essentially, you play this cassette tape and
it's just running and if it's like, if it runs out,
you're supposed to flip it over, which younger listeners are
probably like, the hell you're talking about, flip it over
and you start again. But like you would put in
your two your boy card and your girl card. The
(11:35):
boys were yellow and girls were pink. Put them into
that little stereo thing that they came with. The game,
and you'd wait to hear if they had a talk
or not, and whether or not it was a match.
And then Tracy was the operator and she'd be like,
what a turkey or.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Whatever she did call that was my favorite she did.
That was a great quote. I mean it was me
but okay.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And that's how you It just ran like so you
would just put in these little cards and see what happened.
Or sometimes it would just be silent, which meant no
match at all.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yep, no.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
At all.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And actually they're the again when we talked about other
people playing it. The List magazine at the List dot com,
they have an art called things you Only Notice about
the Girl Talk Board Game as an adult, and they
do specifically talk about the Dateline game. The header was
holy stereotyped Batman and they write, Girl Talk Dateline is
(12:40):
what teenage dreams are made of. This game is all
about setting your friends also known as teen cards, up
on dates and eventually finding a date for yourself. You
can date virtually anyone through the magic of Girl Talk Dateline,
and by anyone, I mean any painfully stereotypical caricature of
a person. Each teen card has a picture of the
friend you're setting up, as well as very specific descriptions
(13:02):
of their likes and dislikes. Take Danielle, for example, She's
an adorable brunette who loves perfume and pep club but
hates getting up early. Fair enough, who loves getting up
early to get to class. Oh, I bet Gert does.
Gert is a nerd, y'all. Gert has horned rim glasses,
so obviously she loves algebra and Latin. Homer also wears glasses,
(13:26):
loves computer club and collecting bugs, and hates sports and
school dances. It's almost like Homer and Gert are a
match made in stereotypical nerd heaven. But they're not, y'all.
So there's a part in the game where sometimes the
way their card slots, because it's how they get the voice,
don't work at all, and that means it's a rejection.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
They were not a match. We tried it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yes, there were some that didn't make sense, and according
to the rules, basically you have characters that are just
really likable and so they're easier to match. Then you
have characters that are more specific, in which case I thought,
of course, Homer and Girt would be a match. But
maybe it's an opposite suttracted case. But also this is
(14:14):
where my detestment for Scott came in, because you knew
they're basically the cards are sort of split into four
places and then there's like a middle space where you
do the blind date part. But I knew where Scott was,
and I kept landing on his space, and I was like,
he doesn't match with them.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Mad about Scotty all very mad about Scott was he
was like the drama kid that was too cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, I know those people, but yeah, And then this
article they basically talk about that, and then they basically
talk about how even imaginary boys or jerks too and
only am they surely are. How again it's whitewashed as
hell because the one person that may be of color
you don't know because they're very light skin or just
(15:06):
hand whichever whichever it is, right, And then they go
on to talk about, uh, how girls talk is basically
just boy talk, and they go on to say, just
like the narrator and the creepy girl Talk Dateline commercial says,
girl Talk Dateline is a game about the two things
girl like best talking on the phone and boys. That's right,
girl talk might be the name of the game, but
(15:28):
boy talk is what it's all about. What do you
think sleepovers were for telling scary stories and French braiding
your friend's hair. You're such a girt?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Love this?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Now call this imaginary boy and ask him on a date.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Why don't leave gird alone? Why you gonna be mean? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
They talk about how yes, even in this game the
dudes are so boring. And then they said, uh that
the girl talk is more like talk dated get it
because it's old. They remember burying time capsules filled with
their favorite things, photos of yourself during childhood, hoping future
(16:10):
generations or aliens would find them a billion years later
and be totally impressed with how cool of a kid
you were. Well, opening a girl Talk board game is
like opening a time capsule to your most embarrassing years.
Feather bans a cassette tape. Did you just step into Narnia? Sarca,
nineteen ninety four. Kids these days would need a translator
(16:32):
just to get through the game. What's this weird white
brick thing with a cord? Oh, there's a phone corded foam.
All of the nineties nostalgia aside. The makers of Girl
Talk left no room for anything but heterosexuality. In Girl
Talk Dateline, the rules clearly state that only boys and
girls can be matched. That they even color coded the
(16:53):
genders to make it easier. Boys are yellow and girls
are pink. But don't get it twisted or you'll lose.
And yeah, in that, Annie had to date a dude
because that's your You have a car that's supposed to
be just has has a heart on it and it's
supposed to be representing you. And who did you end
up matching with?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Annie? Scott? Damn it, Scott.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It's a friends to enemy, but it was a friends
in me because I thought he'd match, and then it
was just an enemy.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And then with him, oh man, you won twice. But
the first one time she really tried to trick me
by handing her card dates and I was like, why
do I get it?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Because we couldn't understand what Tracy was saying. It wasn't
like because we were like, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Saying trade off or uh, she said something else and
it was.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Like it was like past the date, but it was
not that it was just like.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, but like we were.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Just like, what what's.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Happening Tracy what's happening? Tracy? That Tracy.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And then there's this article that has a pretty large
scale conversation about the problems with these games and how
really dangerous it is and also again how heteronormative and
a rasing of any culture whatsoever. And it's from Analog
Game Studies dot org and it's from twenty fifteen. So
(18:37):
all these, by the way, all these articles, I think
the earliest one is like twenty twenty, twenty twenty two
or the newest one, because it's still this is a
really old game, y'all, and it's not aged well. But
the title of it is queerying girl Talk the board game,
and just talking about how like problematic these games were
in so many ways. And in it they say girl
(18:58):
talk is the socio political product of a discourse around
female empowerment that characterized the mid nineteen eighties. Following the
perceived relatively success of feminism's second wave, women enter the
workforce in record numbers. The resulting challenge of reconciling career
with familial obligations became a pressing and topical issue. Girl
(19:20):
Talk reconciled this problematic by promising a natural balance between
hetero domesticity and the workplace through its career cards. In fact,
a career is ostensibly a good place to find a husband.
One card reads, after three weeks on your first job
as a profession quote, you know, profession, you'll meet the
(19:43):
man that you'll eventually marry. Yet family does not necessitate
the abandonment of career aspirations. One card reassures the winner,
you will have children early in the life, followed by
a successful career in whatever state. In Girl Talk, girls
are reassured that they will have simultaneous access to both
(20:06):
the workplace and the domestic space. The career path available
in the game and reflects the importance of physical beauty.
So yeah, like all of these things, And then they
go on to say if then this game can be
seen as a not so subtle attempt to instill hetero
patriarchal values and reproduce emphasized femininity in a generation of
(20:28):
upper middle class girls. What value remains in critically reflecting
on it, The answer is found in experience. While Girl
Talk is a product that is branded as having a
very narrow, loookable market, it's very nature as a game
that relies on play and meaning making that existence within
the femeral confines of the interactive experience. Girl Talk is
(20:48):
performed the moment of its playing, and the game is
equally constituted by the game's mechanics, structure and the players.
And they keep going on about how this like we
have to have a conversation about the depth of what
these games do and perpetuating heteronormative stereotypes and being said,
this is normal, and this is how you win, and
(21:10):
literally you win by prising their feminine attributes beauty, amolable personality,
and cheerful subservience.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So they even talk about the fact that the career
cards involve acting or modeling or both and so different
things like that, and how you know you have to
find a career like that, you have to find a husband,
and then you also have to be balancing these things
because you are the woman. And so in the in
(21:42):
the early eighties, you're like, that's fine if you want
to work, but understand housework is still your responsibility as.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, right, And definitely a lot of the hobbies, uh,
and the one we played were they were very gendered,
like it would be like she loves going to the mall,
he hates, like.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
She loves talk. He's talking.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, they were the opposite of each other, but yeah,
so obviously, yes, these games reinforced these ideas and it's
also part of the dream like that, and we're going
to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Actually very soon.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Was kind of that beginning of the teen magazines where
we had heart throbs and guys that we were so
coming after. Hello Jonathan Taylor Thomas for a bit of
a second, as well as you know Jonathan Brandis who
RIP I loved dearly growing up. So having this type
(22:43):
of culture really did instigate this fantasy life of this
is what the dream is.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, and I will say I had a fun time
playing it. It was funny because we were like obviously
largely there was some stress involved, but it was funny.
But you know, as a kid, I do think it's
interesting some of the points you've you've made from these
articles these quotes is that when you play it when
(23:10):
you're young, it does reinforce like an idea of Okay,
this is what everybody else seems to be into, so
I'm into it. But it also can just be fun.
Like I'm not saying we shouldn't examine it and be like,
here is the problems of it at all, because that
does stick with you. And I think when I was
a kid, I would see people get into this and
(23:30):
I'd be like, Okay, I should be into this. But
there's kind of that space where you're all just sort
of yeah, like giggling and being like, well, this is silly.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Or I can remember fighting with the girlfriends about these
games though, oh I can also happen to teams also.
But yes, we are going to do more of these adventures,
including several of the games that Annie has given me.
Maul Madness is going to be in there. Sweet Valley
High Club, Polite Society, which I don't know if we
(24:00):
talked much about. I believe was that an Etsy purchase.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yes, I think that one's more of a like try
to survive in a Jane Austin.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and I think that we're going to try to do
that as well as the fact that I just found
out Margaret Kiljoy, who is a friend of the show
as well, did a whole RPG tabletop game.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I think we need to look into that too, bring wrong,
let her talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
That, Yes, and Samantha will be on Margaret Shows.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yes in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Well, we'll let you know what happens. We'll let you
know what happens. But yes, these are really fun. I
hope that you all enjoy them. And again, if you
have any board game suggestions, tabletop suggestions at large, game
suggestions at large, but also if you have any memories
of these games, these very heteronormative games or aim towards children,
towards girls, please let us know because you know we
(24:49):
might find a way to play it and us.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
At it on the show.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You can email us at steffidamoms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuffone Never told You.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
We might post that video. We'll find it, We'll see
of us playing this.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
We have a tea public store and we have a
book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
as always to our super producer Christina, our excited producer Maya,
and our contributor Joey. Thank you, Thanks to you for listening.
Steffan Never Told You production by Heart Radio. For more
podcasts in my Heart Radio, you can check out the
heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
never told your production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to I Guess kind of Part two Man
Me and My part. So many segments because this is
an extended we're going to talk a lot about board
games forever, because we love board games, and we feel
like we should be open, welcoming, safe place for those
(00:38):
who identify as non binary, film whatever to love board games.
You know, you know, and so therefore we will continually
talk about them. But in this one, we're gonna throw
it back with our adventures here. I mean to throw
it back to nineteen eighty nine, and I was thinking,
(00:58):
first of all, I was around nine when this came
out to date myself, but it was a couple of years.
I had just come to the US a couple of
years before, so very new to this whole US. Because
I don't think there's any version of this game. I'm
sure there's versions of dating games, but not this game.
In Korea, maybe there was because Hasbro bought it out
(01:21):
I think in nineteen ninety three. Originally it was with
a different gaming company. But you were either a toddler
or infant, or were you just born.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
As a year old.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Okay, then yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't't talk about this anymore,
but yes, and we were talking about one of these
games that I remember playing but I never owned, because
this is a rich girl, middle class game that I
was not a part of. My friends were and they
let me play this game. And honestly, while we were
(01:53):
like we were researching this, I remember the original board
game girl Talk, which is truth or Dare and Annie, oh, yeah,
you might need to find that because I forgot about
this one. Because there are dairs, including calling boys on
the phone.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I remembered this, and if.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You don't do it, you have to wear a ZiT
on your face like they have stickers.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I would be.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Shocked if I can find a complete set that actually
has ZiT stickers, because you went through those.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I did You did?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, No, I mean you went through the stickers. I
tried to find it.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh you did, Yes, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because this is loosely based on it was an episode
a Monday Mini we did, yeah, a year ago, maybe
more about these games we remembered from our childhood. And
you mentioned a bunch and then I purchased them.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Such a gift to you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, it's a wonderful gift. So I remember I couldn't
find truth or dare I would.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Be shocked to find it. I remember there's also a
phone one. There's a phone book one where it's a
shape of a phone and you have and I I
remember like my friend I think owned all of these games.
She was an only child, very sweet, very spoiled. He
got all the things, and this this was our collection.
So whenever I would go over, which was every weekend
we were very close friends, we would play these games.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The zip one.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yes, you ran out of the stickers pretty quickly because
there was a lot of things I would not do.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, I mean, like I'm imagining now, I would just
like try to find a friend of mine and call hi,
right right.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
But yeah, So this is a part of those games.
And the one we're talking about is Girls Talk Dateline
I think we previously mentioned, which has to include a
cassette player. And Annie and I are like frazzle looking around.
I now forgot and Annie actually bought me a damn
cassette player, y'all.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And it threw back so hard.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The rewind you fast forward button really really had me tricked.
The trying to like plug up the speaker, which we
do you have a video? The audio is so quiet. Yeah,
I think like y'all have to turn up the volume
super super loud because you had to like be in
complete silence with our ears to the speaker to hear
whether or not we have a date.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, So essentially it like came with a very interesting
tech device. But it was like a little call box
and you would plug that into the headphone auxiliary cable
like space. But so at first we didn't think it
was working because we couldn't hear anything. We turned the
volume all the way up and you could barely hear
(04:33):
it right coming from it. So yeah, it was quiet.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
It was very quiet.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We were just like we were both of us silent
trying to figure out if we won. But yeah, so
this was one of those games. And apparently the Girls
Talk board game was created by Catherine Rondeau, and I
hope I said that right. I did not see the
other games credited to her, which I wouldn't doubt that
(05:03):
what they were because Girl Talking itself was a brand.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
They had a whole level.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Apparently there was like Disney versions including that so raven
Girl Talk games.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I saw this on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I don't know how recent that was, So if any
of y'all had the Disney version, I think I outgrew
it by this point, surprisingly, So if y'all have this,
please let us know and let us know what they
looked like, because apparently there's three collabse with Disney shows.
But yeah, before we talk about what we played and
how it turned out, thought we would talk a little
bit about the game.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So this is a first player.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
This game is instructions, and there's so many articles y'all
says this, be the first player to match all your
teen cards with dates, then find a date for yourself.
The first player to get rid of all their teen
cards by making dates wins. And in this you were
automatically assumed to be a woman who was heterosexual, so
(05:56):
you know, giant red flags here. And yeah, so I
went through and looked at different articles reviewing the game.
It was kind of difficult, except for similar to what
we've done, which is to review it ourselves, and they're
all all of everybody was like, this is really bad,
this is really sexist.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
What the hell?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Essentially was the comment in all of it, And yeah,
so we have to go to the pictures, which was
we had a delightful giant game night with all I
believe pretty much all iHeart people that came and friend
of the show Eves, who you hear once a month
with female First, she went through these cards and was
(06:37):
so excited to talk about the boys and girls that
were the options. I really I feel like we missed
out not having her hair playing that with us because
she was super excited. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Like, essentially these cards just kind of like very short
dating profiles that are like, likes ponies, soccer, dislikes party, Scott.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
She really hates Scott, but yeah, she loves Scott. No,
I don't inside inside well spoiler alert.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, So they're very kind of comical, just brief interest
and dislikes that you're supposed to be able to match
a boy and a girl together based on those. And
Eves was loving just reading the descriptions and looking at
the pictures because it is from the eighties, so you know,
the fashion, the looks of change.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The fashion the copies like some of them include what
was it?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Cheerleading? Which is this fine?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
The beach jewelry, hates bugs, baby hitting gym class.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
My favorite was there were like two clear nerds and
one the dude nerd loved bugs and I was like,
oh no, so I can't match with this Birthways Bugs.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's just kind of comical. It was quite funny.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The whole Yeah, the whole level is absurd, but genuinely
like concerning and I will say, really simple, to the
point that it was so simple that we thought we
were doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah. I think we, Like, there was one thing we
got wrong but we figured out later, which was what
like where do you replace the cards if your date fails?
Where do you put them back? And I think, right,
we mixed that up at first, but we figured it out.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, we we I mean we got there.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
And yeah, okay, like I said, we're not the only
ones that were like, let's look back at these games
and see what this seems like or this let's see
what this is. This was from the Department, a podcast
about trends, and they did a whole slumber party series
and a part of that is obviously, if you're from
the eighties doing the slumber parties, you're going to play
these games, which also included mal Madness.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Which was also on another list with girl.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Talk about being problematic games it's problematic sexist games.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And I was like, yeah, we talked about that too,
it's bad.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
But in here they do talk about both Girl Talk
and the spin off Girl Talk date Line, and it
says this, the game was such a hit, it spun
off Girl Talk Truth or Dare was such a hit.
It spun off into a travel edition and a Girl's
Talk dateline quote, a game about the two things girls
like best talking on the phone and boys. And you
(09:42):
know that's on the actual commercial, which is nonsense. There's
no talk until the end. And that's what it says,
which was a super clunky and heteronormative game to match
up your boy and your girlfriends, who were also extremely
biased and all white. Using a clunky cassette tape. You
(10:02):
matched up stale gender roles and reinforced caustic stereotypes. I mean, yes, yes,
there's there's nothing you could really.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Argue, like, there's that level.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And not only is it that way, but if you
play it, your I guess announcer, your mediator Tracy yes, yeah,
who apparently has a Wisconsin access and one was like, oh,
different girls from Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I was like, why do you note that?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, we'll tell you whether or not it was a
match or not match, and usually says some sexist things
in between, like oh, no, the girls are all talking
and who I thought he was gonna have to date
all of them type of thing because they're all giggling
in the background, which I'm not gonna lie. I have
had a moment where I'm with my friends and we
were giggling in the background while talking to boys, So
(10:53):
I can't say it's too far of a stretch.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
She could be a little mean.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She was real mean to me especially. I feel like, oh, like, girl,
back off.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I don't need this, I don't need this. Life just
got rejected. I don't need this from you too.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I feel like for anyone who doesn't know what we're
talking about, like essentially, you play this cassette tape and
it's just running and if it's like, if it runs out,
you're supposed to flip it over, which younger listeners are
probably like, the hell you're talking about, flip it over
and you start again. But like you would put in
your two your boy card and your girl card. The
(11:35):
boys were yellow and girls were pink. Put them into
that little stereo thing that they came with. The game,
and you'd wait to hear if they had a talk
or not, and whether or not it was a match.
And then Tracy was the operator and she'd be like,
what a turkey or.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Whatever she did call that was my favorite she did.
That was a great quote. I mean it was me
but okay.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And that's how you It just ran like so you
would just put in these little cards and see what happened.
Or sometimes it would just be silent, which meant no
match at all.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yep, no.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
At all.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And actually they're the again when we talked about other
people playing it. The List magazine at the List dot com,
they have an art called things you Only Notice about
the Girl Talk Board Game as an adult, and they
do specifically talk about the Dateline game. The header was
holy stereotyped Batman and they write, Girl Talk Dateline is
(12:40):
what teenage dreams are made of. This game is all
about setting your friends also known as teen cards, up
on dates and eventually finding a date for yourself. You
can date virtually anyone through the magic of Girl Talk Dateline,
and by anyone, I mean any painfully stereotypical caricature of
a person. Each teen card has a picture of the
friend you're setting up, as well as very specific descriptions
(13:02):
of their likes and dislikes. Take Danielle, for example, She's
an adorable brunette who loves perfume and pep club but
hates getting up early. Fair enough, who loves getting up
early to get to class. Oh, I bet Gert does.
Gert is a nerd, y'all. Gert has horned rim glasses,
so obviously she loves algebra and Latin. Homer also wears glasses,
(13:26):
loves computer club and collecting bugs, and hates sports and
school dances. It's almost like Homer and Gert are a
match made in stereotypical nerd heaven. But they're not, y'all.
So there's a part in the game where sometimes the
way their card slots, because it's how they get the voice,
don't work at all, and that means it's a rejection.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
They were not a match. We tried it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yes, there were some that didn't make sense, and according
to the rules, basically you have characters that are just
really likable and so they're easier to match. Then you
have characters that are more specific, in which case I thought,
of course, Homer and Girt would be a match. But
maybe it's an opposite suttracted case. But also this is
(14:14):
where my detestment for Scott came in, because you knew
they're basically the cards are sort of split into four
places and then there's like a middle space where you
do the blind date part. But I knew where Scott was,
and I kept landing on his space, and I was like,
he doesn't match with them.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Mad about Scotty all very mad about Scott was he
was like the drama kid that was too cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, I know those people, but yeah, And then this
article they basically talk about that, and then they basically
talk about how even imaginary boys or jerks too and
only am they surely are. How again it's whitewashed as
hell because the one person that may be of color
you don't know because they're very light skin or just
(15:06):
hand whichever whichever it is, right, And then they go
on to talk about, uh, how girls talk is basically
just boy talk, and they go on to say, just
like the narrator and the creepy girl Talk Dateline commercial says,
girl Talk Dateline is a game about the two things
girl like best talking on the phone and boys. That's right,
girl talk might be the name of the game, but
(15:28):
boy talk is what it's all about. What do you
think sleepovers were for telling scary stories and French braiding
your friend's hair. You're such a girt?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Love this?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Now call this imaginary boy and ask him on a date.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Why don't leave gird alone? Why you gonna be mean? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
They talk about how yes, even in this game the
dudes are so boring. And then they said, uh that
the girl talk is more like talk dated get it
because it's old. They remember burying time capsules filled with
their favorite things, photos of yourself during childhood, hoping future
(16:10):
generations or aliens would find them a billion years later
and be totally impressed with how cool of a kid
you were. Well, opening a girl Talk board game is
like opening a time capsule to your most embarrassing years.
Feather bans a cassette tape. Did you just step into Narnia? Sarca,
nineteen ninety four. Kids these days would need a translator
(16:32):
just to get through the game. What's this weird white
brick thing with a cord? Oh, there's a phone corded foam.
All of the nineties nostalgia aside. The makers of Girl
Talk left no room for anything but heterosexuality. In Girl
Talk Dateline, the rules clearly state that only boys and
girls can be matched. That they even color coded the
(16:53):
genders to make it easier. Boys are yellow and girls
are pink. But don't get it twisted or you'll lose.
And yeah, in that, Annie had to date a dude
because that's your You have a car that's supposed to
be just has has a heart on it and it's
supposed to be representing you. And who did you end
up matching with?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Annie? Scott? Damn it, Scott.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It's a friends to enemy, but it was a friends
in me because I thought he'd match, and then it
was just an enemy.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And then with him, oh man, you won twice. But
the first one time she really tried to trick me
by handing her card dates and I was like, why
do I get it?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Because we couldn't understand what Tracy was saying. It wasn't
like because we were like, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Saying trade off or uh, she said something else and
it was.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Like it was like past the date, but it was
not that it was just like.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, but like we were.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Just like, what what's.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Happening Tracy what's happening? Tracy? That Tracy.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And then there's this article that has a pretty large
scale conversation about the problems with these games and how
really dangerous it is and also again how heteronormative and
a rasing of any culture whatsoever. And it's from Analog
Game Studies dot org and it's from twenty fifteen. So
(18:37):
all these, by the way, all these articles, I think
the earliest one is like twenty twenty, twenty twenty two
or the newest one, because it's still this is a
really old game, y'all, and it's not aged well. But
the title of it is queerying girl Talk the board game,
and just talking about how like problematic these games were
in so many ways. And in it they say girl
(18:58):
talk is the socio political product of a discourse around
female empowerment that characterized the mid nineteen eighties. Following the
perceived relatively success of feminism's second wave, women enter the
workforce in record numbers. The resulting challenge of reconciling career
with familial obligations became a pressing and topical issue. Girl
(19:20):
Talk reconciled this problematic by promising a natural balance between
hetero domesticity and the workplace through its career cards. In fact,
a career is ostensibly a good place to find a husband.
One card reads, after three weeks on your first job
as a profession quote, you know, profession, you'll meet the
(19:43):
man that you'll eventually marry. Yet family does not necessitate
the abandonment of career aspirations. One card reassures the winner,
you will have children early in the life, followed by
a successful career in whatever state. In Girl Talk, girls
are reassured that they will have simultaneous access to both
(20:06):
the workplace and the domestic space. The career path available
in the game and reflects the importance of physical beauty.
So yeah, like all of these things, And then they
go on to say if then this game can be
seen as a not so subtle attempt to instill hetero
patriarchal values and reproduce emphasized femininity in a generation of
(20:28):
upper middle class girls. What value remains in critically reflecting
on it, The answer is found in experience. While Girl
Talk is a product that is branded as having a
very narrow, loookable market, it's very nature as a game
that relies on play and meaning making that existence within
the femeral confines of the interactive experience. Girl Talk is
(20:48):
performed the moment of its playing, and the game is
equally constituted by the game's mechanics, structure and the players.
And they keep going on about how this like we
have to have a conversation about the depth of what
these games do and perpetuating heteronormative stereotypes and being said,
this is normal, and this is how you win, and
(21:10):
literally you win by prising their feminine attributes beauty, amolable personality,
and cheerful subservience.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So they even talk about the fact that the career
cards involve acting or modeling or both and so different
things like that, and how you know you have to
find a career like that, you have to find a husband,
and then you also have to be balancing these things
because you are the woman. And so in the in
(21:42):
the early eighties, you're like, that's fine if you want
to work, but understand housework is still your responsibility as.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, right, And definitely a lot of the hobbies, uh,
and the one we played were they were very gendered,
like it would be like she loves going to the mall,
he hates, like.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
She loves talk. He's talking.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, they were the opposite of each other, but yeah,
so obviously, yes, these games reinforced these ideas and it's
also part of the dream like that, and we're going
to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Actually very soon.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Was kind of that beginning of the teen magazines where
we had heart throbs and guys that we were so
coming after. Hello Jonathan Taylor Thomas for a bit of
a second, as well as you know Jonathan Brandis who
RIP I loved dearly growing up. So having this type
(22:43):
of culture really did instigate this fantasy life of this
is what the dream is.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, and I will say I had a fun time
playing it. It was funny because we were like obviously
largely there was some stress involved, but it was funny.
But you know, as a kid, I do think it's
interesting some of the points you've you've made from these
articles these quotes is that when you play it when
(23:10):
you're young, it does reinforce like an idea of Okay,
this is what everybody else seems to be into, so
I'm into it. But it also can just be fun.
Like I'm not saying we shouldn't examine it and be like,
here is the problems of it at all, because that
does stick with you. And I think when I was
a kid, I would see people get into this and
(23:30):
I'd be like, Okay, I should be into this. But
there's kind of that space where you're all just sort
of yeah, like giggling and being like, well, this is silly.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Or I can remember fighting with the girlfriends about these
games though, oh I can also happen to teams also.
But yes, we are going to do more of these adventures,
including several of the games that Annie has given me.
Maul Madness is going to be in there. Sweet Valley
High Club, Polite Society, which I don't know if we
(24:00):
talked much about. I believe was that an Etsy purchase.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yes, I think that one's more of a like try
to survive in a Jane Austin.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and I think that we're going to try to do
that as well as the fact that I just found
out Margaret Kiljoy, who is a friend of the show
as well, did a whole RPG tabletop game.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I think we need to look into that too, bring wrong,
let her talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
That, Yes, and Samantha will be on Margaret Shows.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yes in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Well, we'll let you know what happens. We'll let you
know what happens. But yes, these are really fun. I
hope that you all enjoy them. And again, if you
have any board game suggestions, tabletop suggestions at large, game
suggestions at large, but also if you have any memories
of these games, these very heteronormative games or aim towards children,
towards girls, please let us know because you know we
(24:49):
might find a way to play it and us.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
At it on the show.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You can email us at steffidamoms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuffone Never told You.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
We might post that video. We'll find it, We'll see
of us playing this.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
We have a tea public store and we have a
book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
as always to our super producer Christina, our excited producer Maya,
and our contributor Joey. Thank you, Thanks to you for listening.
Steffan Never Told You production by Heart Radio. For more
podcasts in my Heart Radio, you can check out the
heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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