March 27, 2024 • 45 mins
In our ongoing look at magazines, we dig into teen magazines - the big players, their success, the helps and harms, and their evolution. And quizzes. Oh the quizzes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
steffone ever told you production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And we are back with our unfortunate minute miniseries that
I have created again. Damn it. I knew. I said
I wouldn't do it, and it ended up doing it.
It came from one single idea about southern living and
then it just spiraled as per usual. But anyway, we
are back, and this is our ode to teen magazines
(00:39):
and its history and impact, because y'all it's pretty pretty big.
The impact is big. Maybe it's because Annie, you and
I were from the era of teen magazines. And I
say this because we had a moment in between before
social media, y'all, Oh my god, where we took a
lot of advice. I had a lot of our education
(01:02):
when it came to like sex and makeup and fashion
and movies. Even that came from big publications that are
now collectibles. Apparently I should have known this. Why didn't
I do this?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, old school magazines. I have all the like centerfold outs.
There are actually some of them are worth the money.
I came upon an article which I don't really mention
in here, young young women Today and when I say
young in like early twenties who loved these and try
to collect them and talk about how much they wish
they existed today in its format. And of course I
(01:37):
don't talk about we don't talk much about about the zines,
but that was a part of that scene as well,
when they could not get the content they that they wanted,
so they created their own very niche content. And we've
already talked about that. Go back to see that episode.
But that is a part of that world as well,
and why we were so heavily the zines came around
because we were so heavily influenced by magazine send this
(02:00):
complications and teen magazines are at the top, and I
didn't I didn't personally get too mini magazines. They were expensive,
expensive for me in that term. I think I would
rather had books, but because I was nerdy nerdy, but
I definitely have memories of sitting in my friend's bedrooms
as sleepovers, which, by the way, I want to come
back and talk about sleepovers and how that is not
(02:24):
not so well anyway. But looking through different magazines which
had all these amazing quizzes like who is your perfect match?
And so many others what is your colors? As in fact,
I went to seventeen magazine, which we are talking about
pretty good deal in here because they were the first
actual teen magazines, and we'll get into that, but I
(02:44):
wanted to go see what their content looked like, because yes,
they exist and they are thriving. Their medium has changed
into being online only. I think I think I could
be wrong. Tell me if there's actual hard copies, because
there may be. Who knows. I said hard copy, Yeah
I did. But they still have quizzes on here, and
they have some from twenty eighteen, including the ultimate Justin
(03:05):
Bieber Quiz, which I don't think us aged well. As
a recent They have a quiz on how to become
an Instagram influencer, how to be famous. They even have
one about Hannah Montana, also at this point in time,
has not aged well. And we'll come back to that
later because not in this episode. That's a whole different
(03:26):
episode and it's like a rah anyway, But that was
from twenty eighteen. And there's other quizzes which I did
pull one that if we have time, we'll do it
one at the end because we did these before, where
we you and I Annie did some quizzes, and I
did link one earlier. We're gonna buy pass that one.
But like I'm wondering, like if we can pass the
best friend quiz, which they have. Oh no, I'm interested
(03:48):
to see because I haven't even opened it. I was
like trying to wait for the surprise. So if we
have more time, we'll do it. If not, we'll put
it as an extra like happy hour maybe maybe on
the next Happy hour. Even but they still have these quizzes.
And y'all when we say we love these quizzes, I
don't know about you, but my age group loved these quizzes.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yes, yes, I feel because you know, Samantha alluded to
this is what the fourth third episode judgment. Magazine not
mini series, definitely mini series. So I talked about this before.
I didn't really have magazines either, and especially not in
this realm, but I had friends that did, and I
(04:30):
have friends that still do. Like when we go on
a trip, like to the beach or something, we'll bring
these magazines and we'll still take the quizzes kind of jokingly,
but like they were when we were younger. It was like, oh,
what is it gonna say about who all ended up with?
The real like it was very it was a fun
(04:51):
kind of community activity amongst yes, so because we were
all answering and kind of giggling about it and like, oh, yeah,
that's so you or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But I mean there's a quiz. Yeah, those a quiza
says what kind of flirt are you? And I was
tempted to send it to you, but I didn't. I
didn't But yeah. So obviously with all of that, the
content has so much uh to and beyond the hair
and love advice, uh, there would be intriguing articles explaining
(05:20):
how to get through a bad day, and I specifically
remember one about a young girl talking about her experience
in trauma from the years of abuse at the hands
of her uncle. It was real personal, it was real
in depth, and the amount of information that teens and
young adults were able to get from these publications are vast.
All of it is, ranging from the good, the bad,
(05:41):
and the educational and not so educational. I will say
I have heard stories and upon stories about girls learning
about their periods or how to handle a period, or
what to use when they start their period, like trying
to figure out what is normal what is abnormal? Like
Magazine's really taught us, and I say us as in
yeahmi too, a lot that we did not learn at
(06:05):
schools that we did not learn from our parents, much
like podcasts now Hello that gave us so much information
that we were missing as teenagers. And as good as
it is, there's also the bad. But it had a
huge impact. Teen magazines, to me, was one of the
forefront of developing young minds in a way that was
(06:30):
actually smart and very consumable. So we're going to jump
into the historical context of teen magazines, and much like
the beginning of women's magazines, teen magazines first started out
as special forums or sections or columns within other magazines,
such as the subdeb a page for girls, which was
(06:52):
introduced in the Ladies Home Journal in the nineteen twenties.
There were other specific publications but not necessarily available for everyone,
such as magazines created by the Girl Scouts. They had
like two or three publications that was specifically four Girl Scouts,
and there were other magazines with sections for teens and
women's magazines as well. They kind of had little pamphlets
that could be taken out of those magazines, and the
(07:15):
magazines started with general beauty and domestic advice and soon
led to larger sections that would move to fashion trends
for young girls, comics, advice columns. And it was in
nineteen forty four that seventeen magazine debut in the US.
And by the way, according to one source, the idea
of teenagers was also starting around at the same time,
(07:38):
meaning the concept of teenagers as a demographic right.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So yeah, just a quick explainer on this concept of teenagers.
Many do you point to the nineteen forties at the
beginning of the use of the term teenagers with a
hyphen in between soteen majors. The word is thought to
have been first in print in a nineteen forty one
ishue You Have Popular Science monthly, but was actually highlighted
in the December nineteen forty four edition of Life with
(08:06):
Photos by Nina Lene in an article titled teenage Girls
they live in a wonderful world of their own. In it,
they write, quote, there is a time in the life
of every American girl when the most important thing in
the world is to be one of a crowd of
other girls and to act and speak in dress exactly
as they do. This is the teen age. Some six
(08:28):
million US teenage girls live in a world all their own,
a lovely, gay, enthusiastic, funny, and blissful society almost untouched
by the war. It is a world of sweaters and
skirts and bobby socks and loafers, of hair warn long
of eyeglasses, rooms painted red with nail polish, of high
school boys not yet gone to war. It is a
(08:50):
world still devoted to parents who are pals, even if
they use the telephone too much. It is a world
of virgils, aided second year French and plain geometry, of
last place, peeled hockey, moron jokes and put on accents.
It is a world of slumber parties in the hit
parade of peanut butter and popcorn, and the endless collecting
of menus and match covers and little stuffed animals.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I love the descriptor, like I'm not gonna lie. I
think it's such a great descriptor. Peanut butter and popcorn.
Was that a thing? I guess? So, I guess this
is like the late Depression era, like the I think
in the middle of So they wanted something much like
southern living, something idyllic, and for some reason, teenagers really
hit that nail on the head and it's interesting to
(09:36):
note when we're talking about this idyllic and interesting, awkward
life of teenagers, they're typically talking specifically about young girls
and whether or not they're representing the society appropriately because
apparently there was the usage of this term teenagers in
the nineteen twenties, which accompanied the idea of young rebellious
girls who smoked specifically oh no, dear, oh dear. So
(10:01):
there is an interesting context with that, right.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But Yeah, with the birth of this new demographic, it's
not surprising that publishers wanted to jump into the marketing
towards young women slash teenagers at the time. With seventeen
leading the way, the new market jumped straight in going
after these new age groups, specifically targeting girls in the
thirteen to nineteen years age range. And with the fact
(10:25):
that seventeen still exist today, outrunning so many other publications,
they are one of the longest and more successful teen
magazines to date.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, and here's a bit of history with seventeen magazines specifically,
and we want to note that seventeen wasn't necessarily the
first magazine for young women, but the age range for
the other magazines like Mademoiselle, which was published in nineteen
thirty five, was still geared toward young women in college
and not to those who were considered teenagers so prett
much in high school or middle school. But it is
(10:55):
something to remember that similar strategies were used to pull
in subscribers and they realize the potential in consumership and
capitalism with their teenage readers. So seventeen magazine, which is
owned by Hurst Magazine, was originally suggested by editor Helen Valentine,
who helped give young teen girls working women role models
and gave helpful information to improve themselves personally, professionally and socially.
(11:18):
Before its first publication, they used the then popular comic
strip titled Tina, which was created by cartoonist Hilda Terry.
So the comic ran from nineteen forty four to nineteen
sixty three and was a huge proponent on Sunday comic
Strip and was successful for the almost twenty year run.
Apparently she's done like actual TV shows, I think, so
(11:40):
interesting fact out there and when I say Tina is
tee Ina and yes it is a play on the
word teens. So with the help of the comic, the
company was able to promote the magazine to advertisers and
was able to secure them for their publication, and they
made sure to take the time to try to understand
their audiences by surveying teen girls from nineteen forty five
(12:02):
to nineteen forty six, and were able to use that
information to make the magazine more successful for the audios
and the advertisers.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
In an article written for Sammy's World dot com, they
write seventeen was successful from the onset because it tapped
into teenage anxieties and vulnerabilities while delivering its ideal reader
to massive advertising companies. Through seventeen, Helen Valentine, its founder,
hoped to create a magazine that would quote treat teenage
girls seriously and respect their emotional and intellectual needs in
(12:30):
addition to helping them choose their first lipstick. In its
first issue, seventeen vowed to help teenagers make sense of
their identity, but before doing so, they introduced businessmen and
advertisers to American teenage girl consumers. As Masoni writes, seventeen
also promoted the teen girl through its education of adults,
(12:51):
particularly those in the advertising and retail industries. Because the
magazine could not succeed without the financial support of advertisers.
Selling businesses on the idea of the teen girl as
a consumer was among the first task at hand. By
appealing to funders prior to teenage audiences, seventeen positioned itself
(13:11):
to meet the needs of the markets movers and shakers
before establishing a relationship with its readers. The foundation of
the magazine's success was built with full understanding of the
growing needs of businesses to sell products coupled with the
growing emotional needs of teenage girls. Seventeen methodically and expertly
knew how to harness and hook the powerful consumers businessmen
(13:34):
and teenage girls alike among its readership.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Right, And I feel like this has been a secret
that people keep forgetting and re relearning.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You don't know, it's sook every time we do an
episode about fangirls and suddenly people are like, wow, oh, yeah,
they support stuff and make money.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh they buy things. I forgot it, yes, because this
was in nineteen forties, and you know, even before then,
because we've had this common station when it comes to
women in the magazine's and purchasing powered who has it,
It's been young girls. So it's kind of like we
have to relearn, reinvive the will here. So the launch
(14:12):
of the magazine was seen as a success, and in
its inaugural edition, they did what many of other publications didn't,
which has introduced themselves and their intent in giving teen
girls ownership of this magazine, so allowing for feelings of
being seen and understood and given some credit to wanting
to be a part of something. Teen girls were excited
(14:32):
to see something that was tailored for them that Samy's
World article rights. It takes reading only a few pages
of the original September nineteen forty four issue of seventeen
to see that, unlike Vogue are Harper's Bazaar, the magazine
unabashedly tries to forge emotional connections to teenage girls and
teenage girls exclusively, and.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It continues in the accompanying letter of the first issue,
entitled seventeen says Hello, Valentine makes her intent with seventeen
very clear to readers. Quote, seventeen is your magazine, high
school girls of America, all yours. It is interested only
in you and everything that concerns, excites a noise, pleases
or perplexes you. Valentine notes that while seventeen was interested
(15:15):
in how you dress, how you feel and how you look,
what you do, and what you think, all of which
became different categories in seventeen's table of contents, they were
most interested in what you are. Are you tense and
ill at ease or comfortable and relaxed. Have you a
chip on your shoulder or a smile on your lips?
Are you interested only in yourself and your closest family
(15:35):
and friends, or do you care what happens to people
you'll never see. You're going to have to run this show,
so the sooner you start thinking about it, the better.
In a world that is changing as quickly and profoundly
as ours is, we hope to provide a clearinghouse for
your ideas.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So that is a brilliant, brilliant scheme, especially in the
nineteen forties when women in general are being listened to.
But to have teenage girls who are even less important. Wow,
this was screaming, come here, you're welcome, buy things from us,
you can trust us.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And also just a reminder, this was before the internet.
I think a lot of people sometimes we forget that,
but at the time this was like, oh wow, other
people like me. It was kind of like an early
version of that connection we get through the internet.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was important that we have
focused on specific magazines in each of our episodes because
they were kind of the marker of the beginning of
(16:46):
something huge, obviously, and they were able to establish a concrete.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Base for this. But it was interesting because see in
that first article, they also had a picture and which
if you ever get a chance to look it up,
you should, and I believe it depicts two young girls
with an older woman and it says happy Birthday, seventeen.
And they did this on purpose again to show you,
(17:13):
to actually give you a legit picture of what this
looks like with her welcoming you into their family. So
it's very, very, very fascinating. Valentine was able to show
advertisers the freshew market of teens and how they were
ready for something that was created just for them. So
seventeen was only the beginning. Many others soon followed, but
(17:34):
wasn't until really the fifties that the magazines boomed. Get
it boomed, boomers, you get yeah, yeah, we're good. And
though magazines like seventeen were successful with appealing to the
young ladies and teenagers in their search for fashion and society.
Other magazines soon appeared, which were the gossip and celebrity magazines,
which hit the scenes quickly after.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Here's a quote from Encyclopedia dot Com. Nineteen fifties gossip
magazines such as teen, Parade and hebcats saw working class readers,
while seventeen emphasized fashion, dating and early marriage. And for
some more details about the birth of these magazines, here's
what Mental Foss wrote about it in their article titled
A Dreamy History of teen Idol Magazines Just for You quote.
(18:21):
The idea of pandering to fans of clean cut performers
with breathless magazine prose can be traced back to Elvis Presley.
In the late nineteen fifties, magazines like sixteen went from
printing song lyrics to relaying details of what it might
be like to date the King Kruner, Pat Boone, or
actor Tap Hunter. When the Beatles arrived stateside in nineteen
sixty four, the ensuing pandemonium flowed into what was quickly
(18:45):
becoming a subgenre of publishing, teen idol worship.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Right and they continue. Charles Laffer took notice, a journalism
and English teacher at Beverly Hills High School. Laffer thought
a magazine devoted to teen interest would be a success.
He launched Coaster, a regional publication for Long Beach locals,
in the nineteen fifties. It didn't succeed until he realized
his mistake. Boys don't want to sit down and read
(19:11):
about celebrity lifestyles. Girls do. Lawfer renamed the magazine teen
and watched it grow into a hit before leaving to
start Tiger Beat in nineteen sixty five. His timing was fortuitous.
The Monkeys were just beginning to explode in popularity, and
Tiger Beat saw its circulation rise when it profiled the
(19:31):
fun loving group. Laffer sold Monkeys fan club memberships, posters,
and books before he sold the Tiger Beat itself to
the Harlequin Romance House in nineteen seventy eight for twelve
million dollars. Yeah, I okay, So I am an old
soul and I loved old, old movies. I probably watched
way too many Elvis movies. This was before I was
(19:53):
learned about him and realized how awful he was. Sorry
to those who love Elvis as well as I watched
all of like the Beach movies. I don't know, Frankie
and Annette loved them, loved them, and this was like
right after their Mouseketeer years. I don't know what what's
with me? I barely really loved old school American culture
(20:14):
during those times, which is hilarious because I would have
never been welcomed in that era of time. But I
loved loved those and my mother when I would ask
her about the things that she loved, because she thought
it was fascinating that I loved all these old movies
and that I really got into them. Because she would
give me a collection of old musicals, which still like
(20:35):
looking back on, like these are really problematic movies, but
I loved them. What's wrong with me? Anyway? But one
of her favorites was the Monkeys, and for some reason,
when she talked about them, I watched the shows which
had the monkeys because they had their own show and
it was actually pretty good, like to a kid, and
that's what I thought. I was a kid. And she
talked about how much she loved them, and she loved Ozma,
(20:59):
Donnie Ozma. Who didn't I guess during that time and
then like these magazines did pop into my head. I
remembered them though I never owned them. I never saw them.
I don't think my parents owned them. I don't know why,
but I knew these magazines because it was so big, right.
But with that, and yes, again my mother was a
part of this fandom, a new era of fandom began.
(21:22):
And Annie, I think it's about time that you really
revealed to all of us Ryan Gosling story. Oh dear well.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So, I had a huge crush on Ryan Gossling when
I was nine. He was in the show Young Hercules.
I would record it every day at three point thirty
and then I would rewatch it. I still have all
the VHS tapes because I didn't know what to do
with them, bab though I recently got my hands on Yeah,
(21:54):
and I'm on disc three, and I'm like, I can
see why Young we liked this so much.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I just saw Zena being advertised on a streaming network,
I think at Amazon.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I think. So I'm confused because someone told me that
Young Hercules is on Hulu and it definitely isn't. But
I believe Zena had Xena definitely had more power than
Young Heracules did. They were in the same universe, but
it was fifty episodes. I loved it. I had a
huge crush on him. So I had this lunch box
(22:28):
that said Reese on it because it was like a
Reese candy box. And I put all of my magazine
clippings from Ryan Gossling in this box. And this is
the most embarrassing part. Had one of those talkback things.
It's like what they'd had in Home Alone too, but
it was way cheaper, like it could only record like
(22:51):
ten seconds. Oh go okay, yeah yeah, And it was
like the size of my hand. But I recorded him.
There's a scene early on in this first season he
says I love you to his mother and I recorded
it and I would play it at night. But the
worst part is that I would go to said sleep
(23:11):
but everyone knew I loved drawing Gossling like it was
everyone knew it. I just would talk about it all
the time. So I would go to sleepover and I'd
bring this box with me and I would play it.
I went to bed around other people, Samantha, and I
have my magazine clippings. I feel like, look at this.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm wondering, like, outside of the friends you talked to today,
because you do talk to several of yours whol friends.
I wonder what those other girls or other people, if
they have this memory of you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
There is one party in particular. I'm like, I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Remember that, but you know, I don't think it's that
just shows a whole different level of it, like dedication,
and if they weren't making fun of you, then they
agreed with you and or they were doing something similar
or this was absolutely yeah normal to them.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
One night I was at she was a slightly more
popular girl than me. That sounds so mean. She was
more popular than me. I was just shocked. I get
invited to her party and her grandmother was there. Who
needed me? This nice blanket that I still have.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Her.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Somehow it came up and we were sitting in a
group and it felt like an intervention, and they're like,
what is with this Ryan Gosling box and this whole thing?
And I remember just like telling them all of these
thoughts and I had my box.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know, you really haven't changed that much. It's just
now about the last of us Star Wars and some video.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Okay, so up to be honest, the Star Wars box
at your place, Oh.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And you come in with your robots, you come in
all dressed in gear like you've been ready. I don't
think it like you are you and this is just
this is just about right for your personality and I
love it.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, I'm glad I appreciate that. But it was definitely
like I would buy magazines if I knew he.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Was in right. And I don't think you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
No, I think a lot of us did. I think
like because again they were expensive, like to get a
subscription was expensive, but I could afford like one issue
right of one thing, and then I would cut it out.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And I think up until recently, like I remember seeing
books that are dedicated our books, magazines that are dedicated
specifically two fandoms that were to one fandom. We've bought
I bought you, and you bought yourself, and several other
people bought you. The Star Wars edition of Time. Was
(25:47):
it time? Yeah, Time because of the anniversary. And then
I saw when One Directions were big, they had their
own magazines in sync. We kind of mentioned them later,
like had their own magazines. They had very detailed magazines,
including their you know the age old question, what is
your ideal date? What is your ideal girl? All these things,
(26:08):
which was bad lied all the way through that thing. Yeah,
poor dude. He did his bus. He did what he
had to do. But yeah, like people love these types
of magazines and they are They're good that.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah they are. It's funny because when I go
I recently bought a Star Wars magazine, and it was
kind of embarrassing because I have like my Star Wars
shopping bag and I was wearing like my Star Wars
shirt and then I bought by Star Wars magazine. It's like, well, sorry,
I am so yes, So going back to the main
(26:47):
timeline now that I've shared my story for my trying,
thank you. Yes, there were, though there were so many
of these magazines starting to saturate the market, the business
was still six scessful. Here's a quote from Remind magazine
from Eric Kohani's article, quote, teen magazines have fed youthful
(27:09):
fan frenzy for decades. Teen magazines have always capitalized on
phonetic fan frenzy, and their business models have always basically
been the same, focus on what has long been a
coveted demographic, young and primarily female consumers unafraid to swoon
over their favorite music and TV idols. An eager to
feast on celebrity gossip and pin up photos with such
(27:31):
titles as teen World, Flip Fave and more. Teen zines
ligne the shelves of bookstores and newsstands everywhere, attracting readers
with colorful covers and attention grabbing headlines like Monkey Dating Secrets,
Donnie's First State Are even Beatles Secret wild Picks. The
publications always zoomed in on teen idols, TV and music
(27:53):
stars like Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Annette Finicello, Sondrade, Bobby Darren,
The Monkeys, Donnie Osmond, David Cassidy, Bobby Sherman. The list
goes on and on, and as far as graphic design went,
vivid colors were usually the order of the day. A
wide variety of typefaces would litter virtually every inch of
the magazine covers, and close cropped headshots mounted on cartoon
(28:15):
bodies were a cheesy but common gimmick.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, I mean, all the things that I can remember
they have, like the bubble lettering, Yeah, that infamous bubble
lettering and you knew what it was, uh yeah, Oh
my goodness. And of course we got different magazines based
on quality, some of them were paper, but some of
them were like glossy, so you had to pay for
the glossy version of people. I guess you still do
you technically. So with all these magazines finding success, there
(28:42):
was fierce competition and getting the right celebrity on the
cover of the magazines, and the level of starvedom could
be measured to who was being featured. Stories of celebrities
hanging around the offices at the beginning of their career,
to celebrities trying to remain far away from the covers
of the teeny Bob for publications to show that they
were quote serious. Actors were a part of this industry.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
However, with its popularity really hitting in the seventies, the
overall business eventually did die down. Here's another quote from
the mental Flass article. At its peak in the nineteen seventies,
Tiger Beat and its sister publications reached roughly two million
readers a month. Others got by on as little as
one hundred and thirty five thousand paid copies sold. The
nineteen nineties diversified with titles like teen People on Sassy
(29:28):
publications that brought a stronger editorial voice to readers and
eased up on the kind of copy that didn't exactly
enable feminism sail away with Ralph Macchio. In the nineteen nineties.
The popularity of the Backstreet Boys and n Sync helped
keep Tiger Beat and the others afloat, but not for long.
The Internet and social media excised the middleman, allowing stars
(29:51):
to control their exposure and deliver calculated glimpses into their
lives without teen Beat interfering.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Right, But even with this popularity waning during its heyday,
they thrived. In the seventies, they were popular, and soon
the industry realized its success and started to widen the grounds.
In the sixties and seventies, publishers started releasing team magazines
for people of color, specifically like the black community. Some
of them included Write on Black, Bead and Word Up.
(30:19):
Here's a bit about the growth and history of black
team magazines from the University of Missouri. Black magazines for
children and teenagers started out with the focus on black heritage,
arising out of the politically charged atmosphere of the nineteen
sixties and seventies. At issue was the need for magazines
that praised, rather than condemning, black history, and that offered
children role models in the black community. Like the discourse
(30:41):
around black hair, these magazines often gradually drifted away from
their original purpose and gained broader audiences, particularly if and
when they focused on products of black culture like music
or art, rather than specific Black individuals. Included in the
gallery are magazines from nineteen seventy three to nineteen ninety one,
starting with the educational Ebony Junior and continuing to more
(31:02):
teen centric magazines that did not exclusively target a black audience.
Perhaps telling, none of the magazines included in this gallery
had particularly long run times.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Magazine for Boys were also published and still are, but
the numbers are not too high. In fact, trying to
find specific publications and articles about the history of that
is not really readily available. Publications like Dirt, which was
released in nineteen ninety one with the emphasis on sports, music, movies,
and others, but it did not last too long.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
There are a few, and we found a few, but
they didn't people don't talk about it. Essentially. One of
the first things that I did read when small publications
were coming out or specific columns were coming out, they
would just imply that the regular Life magazine were for
boys or the regular National geographics were for boys, so
it was interesting and very telling about what they saw
(31:55):
and much like what we talked about with Lafer Boys
and pay Well. So there's that The overall success of
these magazines were huge, and when that comes controversies. Studies
have come out showing that overall effects of these magazines
for young girls and women. Many argued that these types
of content was not only damaging to the self esteem
(32:16):
of young developing girls and teens, but also very dangerous
for them, including being overly sexualized from a young age
or being told to be sexual. I have also we
have also ran into many articles condemning all of these magazines.
Saw one specifically about seventeen recently like a couple of
(32:36):
years ago, and how damaging it was and she would
never allow for her teenage girls to look at them,
which is fine again, I get that, and a lot
of conversations about how they felt like those magazines ruined
them as adults now and agoers. Many have accused them
of teaching unhealthy gender stereotypes and causing damage for many generations.
(32:57):
And like many magazines and similar publications, they often focus
on stereotypical ideas, so when it comes to women, and
young girls and beyond that, criticizing them into buying their
way into perfection, and unfortunately, many teen magazines followed suit.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
In a research article within the published book titled Body Image,
they write specifically about the effects of such magazines titled
Grooming ten year Old's Gender Stereotypes. A content analysis of
preteen and teen girl magazines and here's a quote. Mainstream magazines,
defined as those published by major media conglomerates in containing
commercial advertising, primarily feature women in stereotypically feminine roles or
(33:45):
as sexual objects. Content analyzes have found that these magazines
depict predominantly young Caucasian women with increasingly thin body types,
frequently displayed partially clothed and in sexual or submissive positions.
Similar have been found in mainstream magazines aimed at teenage viewers.
Content analyses of these magazines, eg. Seventeen, demonstrate that general
(34:09):
appearance and body problems are primary topics. For example, a
study of seventeen magazine found that girls' bodies are depicted
and described as problems that require maintenance to fix. Acne,
hair odour, and hip slash. Thy fat are targeted as
undesirable and unattractive features that require extensive body maintenance routines
(34:29):
to eliminate this Emphasis on appearance has been a dominant
focus in seventeen since at least the early nineteen sixties,
constituting approximately half of the magazine's content in nineteen sixty one,
nineteen seventy two, and nineteen eighty five. In addition, the
presence of dieting and exercise information has significantly increased in
(34:50):
mainstream teen girl magazines over the last fifty years, suggesting
that these magazines increasingly focus on solutions to appearance based problems.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Of course, with this in mind, we have to acknowledge
the way young people and girls specifically internalize these types
of ideas. Here's another quote from that research article. Several
studies have found that adolescent girls internalize media body ideals
to a greater degree and higher rates of body dissatisfaction
compared to adolescent boys. Experimental research has also shown that
(35:21):
exposure to magazine images of models predicts lower body satisfaction
and self esteem in adolescent girls. Even girls as young
as five show these patterns. These findings suggest that girls,
unlike boys, may begin to internalize cultural beauty standards portrayed
in media at a young age. And continue to do
so throughout development. So with the amount of meat content
(35:44):
young people consume, it isn't surprising to see how big
of an effect these kind of images can leave. And yeah,
again we are examples of this. We came from an
era of seeing tiny, tiny, tiny women and being told
if we're not this, then we're not worth their toime.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, and then being solved those products to make yourself
look that way when probably you never will. There's a
lot of as genetics, and it's also expensive.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And for some reason we believe the people who would
help them. I just remember the Suzanne Summers already, who
was tiny, tiny, tiny tiny, and she, because of her
body image, was able to sell thy masters like nobody's business,
and I believed it. I was really wanted one. Thank
god I didn't have the money, but I really did
(36:36):
want one anyway. So, but as a new era of
publication arose, so did the quality of content, and teen
magazines and many more in depth articles were starting to
be published. To be honest, seventeen started in an era
when young girls started to dream beyond a family and home.
(36:56):
Valentine's original image as the working woman's role model was
beyond the gender no norm at the time. Sure it
was clouded with capitalism and money making schemes, but it
was an idea that young girls wanted more and would
develop to be the decision makers when it comes to
consumership within the home and a little bigger fashion industry.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
This is making me think of a joke that people
will say about Playboy. I like they read it for
the articles, so we you know, we didn't even talk
about that, and the boy.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
We were not talked about. We have not talked about Playboy.
Dam you Eddie yours? I'm not doing that, all right,
all right?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
As the teen celeb magazines grew in popularity, other teen
magazines came out as well. In nineteen eighty eight, we
had the first counter magazine to seventeen, Sassy Magazine. Here's
the quote from NPR. Sasse was the antithesis of the
homecoming Queen, Please Your Boyfriend culture. It published articles about
suicide and STD while seventeen was still teaching girls how
(38:02):
to get a void to notice you.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
The magazine didn't last too long. It did stop publishing
in like the nineteen ninety four through nineteen ninety six.
There was two different dates, so there it is the
impact was long lasting. The founder, Sandra Yates, was an
Australian feminist who sought to bring men meaningful conversation to
teen magazines that took a bit of a dark look
at the culture at the time. The magazine was controversial
(38:27):
enough for groups like Women a Globe, which was an
evangelical group, to actually call for boycott. And then there's
Jane Pratt, who was the founding editor of SASE, and
she would go on to other publications with similar feels,
including Jane Magazine, which I know the magazine at the
time really wanted to change the look of teen girls magazines.
(38:49):
Here's a quote from a Washington Post article written by
Julia Carpenter which says, devoted readers remember Sassy, Jane and
other titles that published reporting on politics, feminism, identity and
more alongside fashion spreads through the nineteen nineties and early
two thousands. And in the late nineteen nineties we have
(39:09):
seen more publications talking about the deeper issues at hand
and even daring to call themselves feminist and asking their
teen readers are they feminists.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Here's a quote from the same Washington Post article. Editor
and writer Brandon Hawley led the charge at Elle Girl
when herst was first dipping its toes into the teen
mag business in two thousand and one. She recalls the
reaction when l Girl ran a cover story titled the
F Word? Are you a feminist? People were like, oh, feminism,
she says, adding that she finds it weird that seventeen
(39:41):
years later, we're still having this conversation. From those early
days of F word covers, Holly saw the teen magazine
landscape evolve and push the boundaries of what was considered
acceptable for teen readers. At Jane, where she worked from
two thousand and five to two thousand and seven, she
published reports on gay conversion therapy, SA, on work and money,
and even a multi page spread of readers submitted nudes
(40:04):
dubbed the Jane Guide to Breast.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah. Yes, and we still have to ask that question. Yeah,
that's really annoying because I think this article is liked
from like twenty seventeen. Well, anyway, and when the magazine's
coming out strong, many others have followed this down the
same path.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, and I believe there's been a past episode about
teen Vogue In's particular when it comes to this. But yeah,
it wasn't too long ago that we saw changes within
teen Vogue, countering conservative narratives and defending their rights to
our autonomy. Here's a quote from that same Washington Post article.
In December, an online opinion piece headlined Donald Trump is
(40:43):
gaslighting America appeared in teen Vogue magazine. Within hours, the
harsh indictment of the then president elect exploded on the Internet,
comment sections erupted in debate, and egglevators trolled the writer
teen Vogue Weekend editor Lauren Duka on Twitter. But it
wasn't just the subject of the article that caused the uproar.
(41:03):
It was the nature of the publication that it ran in.
What was the political piece doing in a teen magazine?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Right? And many magazines have understood the importance of teaching
young girls and women about topics like these. Even in
nineteen ninety eight, they began to openly talk about the
issues at hand. Here's a quote in nineteen ninety eight,
when she was at Cosmo, girl A. Tusa Rubinstein had
launched a political series called Cosmo twenty twenty four, named
for the year when one of the magazine's oldest reader
(41:33):
could theoretically be elected the first female president which is
this year. I kind of want to go say we
have come back to that. Obviously, no, but I'm just saying.
Rubinstein and Feature seventeen editor and choquette interviewed leaders like
Madeline Albright, Barbara Walters, and yeah, Donald Trump about the
(41:54):
paths to professional success. The final Package, a collection of
advice and essays on success and career building, fit the
promise in Cosmo Girls tagline Born to Lead, and then
Rubenstein would go on to lead major similar changes to
seventeen magazine, again the original a tea magazine.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
The growth of this type of change in these magazines
has impacted the industry as a whole. Here's a quote
to end with about the radical but not so radical changes.
So when Holly thinks about her time at teen magazine
and their history from El Girl to Jane and now
to teen Vogue, she thinks about her eight year old
son's friend, Fiona. Fiona loves lipgoss, but she can also
(42:34):
ride backward on a surfboard. At the Women's March on
Washington in January twenty seventeen, she held her own protest sign.
Girls like Fiona don't need just any magazine, Holly says,
they need a guide to womanhood that doesn't preach or condescend,
but instead educates and uplifts and most important reflects the
girls who are reading it. Teen magazines today are introducing
(42:56):
girls to feminism that isn't broad burning, which is also cool,
she said, But you can be feminine and a feminist.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Right And I think that's really important for looking at publications.
And yes, we're looking at more online publications more than anything.
But yes, there are obvious magazines still out and about
collectibles even if you want and enable to get a
hold up. But we know that today that kind of
written medium is getting less and less and less, and
(43:24):
a lot of magazines have folded throughout the years. We've
we've seen major histories, things that I the hope we're
still existing does not exist well, like that's that's one
of the things I've discovered in this research. But the
magazines like teen Vogue obviously have played a really important role,
especially in the last two elections as well as seventeen,
(43:45):
as well as Jane Magazine. We haven't talked about Miss
magazine at all. We haven't talked about magazine, which I
realized that we're gonna have to come back to, but
I don't. I'm not I'm not going to promise when anyway.
But all of those things are important. But teen magazines
have really really changed an atmosphere and the environment in
general when it comes to young girls and what we've become.
(44:07):
And it may be things like the nineteen ninety eight
article which talks about encouraging girls to think about being
the first female president. Like, all of these things are
pretty significant in our culture and it shows today why
we need to pay attention to the historical context and
what has changed throughout the years.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, well listeners, If you have any memories
with teen magazines, any thoughts, if you had a shrine
of your own perhaps, or any collectible issues, let us know.
You can email us at Stephaniamomsteph at iHeartMedia dot com.
(44:50):
You can find us on Twitter at mom step Podcasts,
or on TikTok and Instagram at steff when ever told
you we have a tea public store and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks is always too, super producer Christina, executive producer and
our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Steffan never told you us direction of iHeart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the iHeartRadio Apple podcast, or, if you listen to your
favorite show, h
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
steffone ever told you production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And we are back with our unfortunate minute miniseries that
I have created again. Damn it. I knew. I said
I wouldn't do it, and it ended up doing it.
It came from one single idea about southern living and
then it just spiraled as per usual. But anyway, we
are back, and this is our ode to teen magazines
(00:39):
and its history and impact, because y'all it's pretty pretty big.
The impact is big. Maybe it's because Annie, you and
I were from the era of teen magazines. And I
say this because we had a moment in between before
social media, y'all, Oh my god, where we took a
lot of advice. I had a lot of our education
(01:02):
when it came to like sex and makeup and fashion
and movies. Even that came from big publications that are
now collectibles. Apparently I should have known this. Why didn't
I do this?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, old school magazines. I have all the like centerfold outs.
There are actually some of them are worth the money.
I came upon an article which I don't really mention
in here, young young women Today and when I say
young in like early twenties who loved these and try
to collect them and talk about how much they wish
they existed today in its format. And of course I
(01:37):
don't talk about we don't talk much about about the zines,
but that was a part of that scene as well,
when they could not get the content they that they wanted,
so they created their own very niche content. And we've
already talked about that. Go back to see that episode.
But that is a part of that world as well,
and why we were so heavily the zines came around
because we were so heavily influenced by magazine send this
(02:00):
complications and teen magazines are at the top, and I
didn't I didn't personally get too mini magazines. They were expensive,
expensive for me in that term. I think I would
rather had books, but because I was nerdy nerdy, but
I definitely have memories of sitting in my friend's bedrooms
as sleepovers, which, by the way, I want to come
back and talk about sleepovers and how that is not
(02:24):
not so well anyway. But looking through different magazines which
had all these amazing quizzes like who is your perfect match?
And so many others what is your colors? As in fact,
I went to seventeen magazine, which we are talking about
pretty good deal in here because they were the first
actual teen magazines, and we'll get into that, but I
(02:44):
wanted to go see what their content looked like, because yes,
they exist and they are thriving. Their medium has changed
into being online only. I think I think I could
be wrong. Tell me if there's actual hard copies, because
there may be. Who knows. I said hard copy, Yeah
I did. But they still have quizzes on here, and
they have some from twenty eighteen, including the ultimate Justin
(03:05):
Bieber Quiz, which I don't think us aged well. As
a recent They have a quiz on how to become
an Instagram influencer, how to be famous. They even have
one about Hannah Montana, also at this point in time,
has not aged well. And we'll come back to that
later because not in this episode. That's a whole different
(03:26):
episode and it's like a rah anyway, But that was
from twenty eighteen. And there's other quizzes which I did
pull one that if we have time, we'll do it
one at the end because we did these before, where
we you and I Annie did some quizzes, and I
did link one earlier. We're gonna buy pass that one.
But like I'm wondering, like if we can pass the
best friend quiz, which they have. Oh no, I'm interested
(03:48):
to see because I haven't even opened it. I was
like trying to wait for the surprise. So if we
have more time, we'll do it. If not, we'll put
it as an extra like happy hour maybe maybe on
the next Happy hour. Even but they still have these quizzes.
And y'all when we say we love these quizzes, I
don't know about you, but my age group loved these quizzes.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yes, yes, I feel because you know, Samantha alluded to
this is what the fourth third episode judgment. Magazine not
mini series, definitely mini series. So I talked about this before.
I didn't really have magazines either, and especially not in
this realm, but I had friends that did, and I
(04:30):
have friends that still do. Like when we go on
a trip, like to the beach or something, we'll bring
these magazines and we'll still take the quizzes kind of jokingly,
but like they were when we were younger. It was like, oh,
what is it gonna say about who all ended up with?
The real like it was very it was a fun
(04:51):
kind of community activity amongst yes, so because we were
all answering and kind of giggling about it and like, oh, yeah,
that's so you or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But I mean there's a quiz. Yeah, those a quiza
says what kind of flirt are you? And I was
tempted to send it to you, but I didn't. I
didn't But yeah. So obviously with all of that, the
content has so much uh to and beyond the hair
and love advice, uh, there would be intriguing articles explaining
(05:20):
how to get through a bad day, and I specifically
remember one about a young girl talking about her experience
in trauma from the years of abuse at the hands
of her uncle. It was real personal, it was real
in depth, and the amount of information that teens and
young adults were able to get from these publications are vast.
All of it is, ranging from the good, the bad,
(05:41):
and the educational and not so educational. I will say
I have heard stories and upon stories about girls learning
about their periods or how to handle a period, or
what to use when they start their period, like trying
to figure out what is normal what is abnormal? Like
Magazine's really taught us, and I say us as in
yeahmi too, a lot that we did not learn at
(06:05):
schools that we did not learn from our parents, much
like podcasts now Hello that gave us so much information
that we were missing as teenagers. And as good as
it is, there's also the bad. But it had a
huge impact. Teen magazines, to me, was one of the
forefront of developing young minds in a way that was
(06:30):
actually smart and very consumable. So we're going to jump
into the historical context of teen magazines, and much like
the beginning of women's magazines, teen magazines first started out
as special forums or sections or columns within other magazines,
such as the subdeb a page for girls, which was
(06:52):
introduced in the Ladies Home Journal in the nineteen twenties.
There were other specific publications but not necessarily available for everyone,
such as magazines created by the Girl Scouts. They had
like two or three publications that was specifically four Girl Scouts,
and there were other magazines with sections for teens and
women's magazines as well. They kind of had little pamphlets
that could be taken out of those magazines, and the
(07:15):
magazines started with general beauty and domestic advice and soon
led to larger sections that would move to fashion trends
for young girls, comics, advice columns. And it was in
nineteen forty four that seventeen magazine debut in the US.
And by the way, according to one source, the idea
of teenagers was also starting around at the same time,
(07:38):
meaning the concept of teenagers as a demographic right.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So yeah, just a quick explainer on this concept of teenagers.
Many do you point to the nineteen forties at the
beginning of the use of the term teenagers with a
hyphen in between soteen majors. The word is thought to
have been first in print in a nineteen forty one
ishue You Have Popular Science monthly, but was actually highlighted
in the December nineteen forty four edition of Life with
(08:06):
Photos by Nina Lene in an article titled teenage Girls
they live in a wonderful world of their own. In it,
they write, quote, there is a time in the life
of every American girl when the most important thing in
the world is to be one of a crowd of
other girls and to act and speak in dress exactly
as they do. This is the teen age. Some six
(08:28):
million US teenage girls live in a world all their own,
a lovely, gay, enthusiastic, funny, and blissful society almost untouched
by the war. It is a world of sweaters and
skirts and bobby socks and loafers, of hair warn long
of eyeglasses, rooms painted red with nail polish, of high
school boys not yet gone to war. It is a
(08:50):
world still devoted to parents who are pals, even if
they use the telephone too much. It is a world
of virgils, aided second year French and plain geometry, of
last place, peeled hockey, moron jokes and put on accents.
It is a world of slumber parties in the hit
parade of peanut butter and popcorn, and the endless collecting
of menus and match covers and little stuffed animals.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I love the descriptor, like I'm not gonna lie. I
think it's such a great descriptor. Peanut butter and popcorn.
Was that a thing? I guess? So, I guess this
is like the late Depression era, like the I think
in the middle of So they wanted something much like
southern living, something idyllic, and for some reason, teenagers really
hit that nail on the head and it's interesting to
(09:36):
note when we're talking about this idyllic and interesting, awkward
life of teenagers, they're typically talking specifically about young girls
and whether or not they're representing the society appropriately because
apparently there was the usage of this term teenagers in
the nineteen twenties, which accompanied the idea of young rebellious
girls who smoked specifically oh no, dear, oh dear. So
(10:01):
there is an interesting context with that, right.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But Yeah, with the birth of this new demographic, it's
not surprising that publishers wanted to jump into the marketing
towards young women slash teenagers at the time. With seventeen
leading the way, the new market jumped straight in going
after these new age groups, specifically targeting girls in the
thirteen to nineteen years age range. And with the fact
(10:25):
that seventeen still exist today, outrunning so many other publications,
they are one of the longest and more successful teen
magazines to date.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, and here's a bit of history with seventeen magazines specifically,
and we want to note that seventeen wasn't necessarily the
first magazine for young women, but the age range for
the other magazines like Mademoiselle, which was published in nineteen
thirty five, was still geared toward young women in college
and not to those who were considered teenagers so prett
much in high school or middle school. But it is
(10:55):
something to remember that similar strategies were used to pull
in subscribers and they realize the potential in consumership and
capitalism with their teenage readers. So seventeen magazine, which is
owned by Hurst Magazine, was originally suggested by editor Helen Valentine,
who helped give young teen girls working women role models
and gave helpful information to improve themselves personally, professionally and socially.
(11:18):
Before its first publication, they used the then popular comic
strip titled Tina, which was created by cartoonist Hilda Terry.
So the comic ran from nineteen forty four to nineteen
sixty three and was a huge proponent on Sunday comic
Strip and was successful for the almost twenty year run.
Apparently she's done like actual TV shows, I think, so
(11:40):
interesting fact out there and when I say Tina is
tee Ina and yes it is a play on the
word teens. So with the help of the comic, the
company was able to promote the magazine to advertisers and
was able to secure them for their publication, and they
made sure to take the time to try to understand
their audiences by surveying teen girls from nineteen forty five
(12:02):
to nineteen forty six, and were able to use that
information to make the magazine more successful for the audios
and the advertisers.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
In an article written for Sammy's World dot com, they
write seventeen was successful from the onset because it tapped
into teenage anxieties and vulnerabilities while delivering its ideal reader
to massive advertising companies. Through seventeen, Helen Valentine, its founder,
hoped to create a magazine that would quote treat teenage
girls seriously and respect their emotional and intellectual needs in
(12:30):
addition to helping them choose their first lipstick. In its
first issue, seventeen vowed to help teenagers make sense of
their identity, but before doing so, they introduced businessmen and
advertisers to American teenage girl consumers. As Masoni writes, seventeen
also promoted the teen girl through its education of adults,
(12:51):
particularly those in the advertising and retail industries. Because the
magazine could not succeed without the financial support of advertisers.
Selling businesses on the idea of the teen girl as
a consumer was among the first task at hand. By
appealing to funders prior to teenage audiences, seventeen positioned itself
(13:11):
to meet the needs of the markets movers and shakers
before establishing a relationship with its readers. The foundation of
the magazine's success was built with full understanding of the
growing needs of businesses to sell products coupled with the
growing emotional needs of teenage girls. Seventeen methodically and expertly
knew how to harness and hook the powerful consumers businessmen
(13:34):
and teenage girls alike among its readership.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Right, And I feel like this has been a secret
that people keep forgetting and re relearning.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You don't know, it's sook every time we do an
episode about fangirls and suddenly people are like, wow, oh, yeah,
they support stuff and make money.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh they buy things. I forgot it, yes, because this
was in nineteen forties, and you know, even before then,
because we've had this common station when it comes to
women in the magazine's and purchasing powered who has it,
It's been young girls. So it's kind of like we
have to relearn, reinvive the will here. So the launch
(14:12):
of the magazine was seen as a success, and in
its inaugural edition, they did what many of other publications didn't,
which has introduced themselves and their intent in giving teen
girls ownership of this magazine, so allowing for feelings of
being seen and understood and given some credit to wanting
to be a part of something. Teen girls were excited
(14:32):
to see something that was tailored for them that Samy's
World article rights. It takes reading only a few pages
of the original September nineteen forty four issue of seventeen
to see that, unlike Vogue are Harper's Bazaar, the magazine
unabashedly tries to forge emotional connections to teenage girls and
teenage girls exclusively, and.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It continues in the accompanying letter of the first issue,
entitled seventeen says Hello, Valentine makes her intent with seventeen
very clear to readers. Quote, seventeen is your magazine, high
school girls of America, all yours. It is interested only
in you and everything that concerns, excites a noise, pleases
or perplexes you. Valentine notes that while seventeen was interested
(15:15):
in how you dress, how you feel and how you look,
what you do, and what you think, all of which
became different categories in seventeen's table of contents, they were
most interested in what you are. Are you tense and
ill at ease or comfortable and relaxed. Have you a
chip on your shoulder or a smile on your lips?
Are you interested only in yourself and your closest family
(15:35):
and friends, or do you care what happens to people
you'll never see. You're going to have to run this show,
so the sooner you start thinking about it, the better.
In a world that is changing as quickly and profoundly
as ours is, we hope to provide a clearinghouse for
your ideas.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So that is a brilliant, brilliant scheme, especially in the
nineteen forties when women in general are being listened to.
But to have teenage girls who are even less important. Wow,
this was screaming, come here, you're welcome, buy things from us,
you can trust us.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And also just a reminder, this was before the internet.
I think a lot of people sometimes we forget that,
but at the time this was like, oh wow, other
people like me. It was kind of like an early
version of that connection we get through the internet.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was important that we have
focused on specific magazines in each of our episodes because
they were kind of the marker of the beginning of
(16:46):
something huge, obviously, and they were able to establish a concrete.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Base for this. But it was interesting because see in
that first article, they also had a picture and which
if you ever get a chance to look it up,
you should, and I believe it depicts two young girls
with an older woman and it says happy Birthday, seventeen.
And they did this on purpose again to show you,
(17:13):
to actually give you a legit picture of what this
looks like with her welcoming you into their family. So
it's very, very, very fascinating. Valentine was able to show
advertisers the freshew market of teens and how they were
ready for something that was created just for them. So
seventeen was only the beginning. Many others soon followed, but
(17:34):
wasn't until really the fifties that the magazines boomed. Get
it boomed, boomers, you get yeah, yeah, we're good. And
though magazines like seventeen were successful with appealing to the
young ladies and teenagers in their search for fashion and society.
Other magazines soon appeared, which were the gossip and celebrity magazines,
which hit the scenes quickly after.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Here's a quote from Encyclopedia dot Com. Nineteen fifties gossip
magazines such as teen, Parade and hebcats saw working class readers,
while seventeen emphasized fashion, dating and early marriage. And for
some more details about the birth of these magazines, here's
what Mental Foss wrote about it in their article titled
A Dreamy History of teen Idol Magazines Just for You quote.
(18:21):
The idea of pandering to fans of clean cut performers
with breathless magazine prose can be traced back to Elvis Presley.
In the late nineteen fifties, magazines like sixteen went from
printing song lyrics to relaying details of what it might
be like to date the King Kruner, Pat Boone, or
actor Tap Hunter. When the Beatles arrived stateside in nineteen
sixty four, the ensuing pandemonium flowed into what was quickly
(18:45):
becoming a subgenre of publishing, teen idol worship.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Right and they continue. Charles Laffer took notice, a journalism
and English teacher at Beverly Hills High School. Laffer thought
a magazine devoted to teen interest would be a success.
He launched Coaster, a regional publication for Long Beach locals,
in the nineteen fifties. It didn't succeed until he realized
his mistake. Boys don't want to sit down and read
(19:11):
about celebrity lifestyles. Girls do. Lawfer renamed the magazine teen
and watched it grow into a hit before leaving to
start Tiger Beat in nineteen sixty five. His timing was fortuitous.
The Monkeys were just beginning to explode in popularity, and
Tiger Beat saw its circulation rise when it profiled the
(19:31):
fun loving group. Laffer sold Monkeys fan club memberships, posters,
and books before he sold the Tiger Beat itself to
the Harlequin Romance House in nineteen seventy eight for twelve
million dollars. Yeah, I okay, So I am an old
soul and I loved old, old movies. I probably watched
way too many Elvis movies. This was before I was
(19:53):
learned about him and realized how awful he was. Sorry
to those who love Elvis as well as I watched
all of like the Beach movies. I don't know, Frankie
and Annette loved them, loved them, and this was like
right after their Mouseketeer years. I don't know what what's
with me? I barely really loved old school American culture
(20:14):
during those times, which is hilarious because I would have
never been welcomed in that era of time. But I
loved loved those and my mother when I would ask
her about the things that she loved, because she thought
it was fascinating that I loved all these old movies
and that I really got into them. Because she would
give me a collection of old musicals, which still like
(20:35):
looking back on, like these are really problematic movies, but
I loved them. What's wrong with me? Anyway? But one
of her favorites was the Monkeys, and for some reason,
when she talked about them, I watched the shows which
had the monkeys because they had their own show and
it was actually pretty good, like to a kid, and
that's what I thought. I was a kid. And she
talked about how much she loved them, and she loved Ozma,
(20:59):
Donnie Ozma. Who didn't I guess during that time and
then like these magazines did pop into my head. I
remembered them though I never owned them. I never saw them.
I don't think my parents owned them. I don't know why,
but I knew these magazines because it was so big, right.
But with that, and yes, again my mother was a
part of this fandom, a new era of fandom began.
(21:22):
And Annie, I think it's about time that you really
revealed to all of us Ryan Gosling story. Oh dear well.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So, I had a huge crush on Ryan Gossling when
I was nine. He was in the show Young Hercules.
I would record it every day at three point thirty
and then I would rewatch it. I still have all
the VHS tapes because I didn't know what to do
with them, bab though I recently got my hands on Yeah,
(21:54):
and I'm on disc three, and I'm like, I can
see why Young we liked this so much.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I just saw Zena being advertised on a streaming network,
I think at Amazon.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I think. So I'm confused because someone told me that
Young Hercules is on Hulu and it definitely isn't. But
I believe Zena had Xena definitely had more power than
Young Heracules did. They were in the same universe, but
it was fifty episodes. I loved it. I had a
huge crush on him. So I had this lunch box
(22:28):
that said Reese on it because it was like a
Reese candy box. And I put all of my magazine
clippings from Ryan Gossling in this box. And this is
the most embarrassing part. Had one of those talkback things.
It's like what they'd had in Home Alone too, but
it was way cheaper, like it could only record like
(22:51):
ten seconds. Oh go okay, yeah yeah, And it was
like the size of my hand. But I recorded him.
There's a scene early on in this first season he
says I love you to his mother and I recorded
it and I would play it at night. But the
worst part is that I would go to said sleep
(23:11):
but everyone knew I loved drawing Gossling like it was
everyone knew it. I just would talk about it all
the time. So I would go to sleepover and I'd
bring this box with me and I would play it.
I went to bed around other people, Samantha, and I
have my magazine clippings. I feel like, look at this.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm wondering, like, outside of the friends you talked to today,
because you do talk to several of yours whol friends.
I wonder what those other girls or other people, if
they have this memory of you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
There is one party in particular. I'm like, I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Remember that, but you know, I don't think it's that
just shows a whole different level of it, like dedication,
and if they weren't making fun of you, then they
agreed with you and or they were doing something similar
or this was absolutely yeah normal to them.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
One night I was at she was a slightly more
popular girl than me. That sounds so mean. She was
more popular than me. I was just shocked. I get
invited to her party and her grandmother was there. Who
needed me? This nice blanket that I still have.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Her.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Somehow it came up and we were sitting in a
group and it felt like an intervention, and they're like,
what is with this Ryan Gosling box and this whole thing?
And I remember just like telling them all of these
thoughts and I had my box.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know, you really haven't changed that much. It's just
now about the last of us Star Wars and some video.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Okay, so up to be honest, the Star Wars box
at your place, Oh.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And you come in with your robots, you come in
all dressed in gear like you've been ready. I don't
think it like you are you and this is just
this is just about right for your personality and I
love it.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, I'm glad I appreciate that. But it was definitely
like I would buy magazines if I knew he.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Was in right. And I don't think you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
No, I think a lot of us did. I think
like because again they were expensive, like to get a
subscription was expensive, but I could afford like one issue
right of one thing, and then I would cut it out.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And I think up until recently, like I remember seeing
books that are dedicated our books, magazines that are dedicated
specifically two fandoms that were to one fandom. We've bought
I bought you, and you bought yourself, and several other
people bought you. The Star Wars edition of Time. Was
(25:47):
it time? Yeah, Time because of the anniversary. And then
I saw when One Directions were big, they had their
own magazines in sync. We kind of mentioned them later,
like had their own magazines. They had very detailed magazines,
including their you know the age old question, what is
your ideal date? What is your ideal girl? All these things,
(26:08):
which was bad lied all the way through that thing. Yeah,
poor dude. He did his bus. He did what he
had to do. But yeah, like people love these types
of magazines and they are They're good that.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah they are. It's funny because when I go
I recently bought a Star Wars magazine, and it was
kind of embarrassing because I have like my Star Wars
shopping bag and I was wearing like my Star Wars
shirt and then I bought by Star Wars magazine. It's like, well, sorry,
I am so yes, So going back to the main
(26:47):
timeline now that I've shared my story for my trying,
thank you. Yes, there were, though there were so many
of these magazines starting to saturate the market, the business
was still six scessful. Here's a quote from Remind magazine
from Eric Kohani's article, quote, teen magazines have fed youthful
(27:09):
fan frenzy for decades. Teen magazines have always capitalized on
phonetic fan frenzy, and their business models have always basically
been the same, focus on what has long been a
coveted demographic, young and primarily female consumers unafraid to swoon
over their favorite music and TV idols. An eager to
feast on celebrity gossip and pin up photos with such
(27:31):
titles as teen World, Flip Fave and more. Teen zines
ligne the shelves of bookstores and newsstands everywhere, attracting readers
with colorful covers and attention grabbing headlines like Monkey Dating Secrets,
Donnie's First State Are even Beatles Secret wild Picks. The
publications always zoomed in on teen idols, TV and music
(27:53):
stars like Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Annette Finicello, Sondrade, Bobby Darren,
The Monkeys, Donnie Osmond, David Cassidy, Bobby Sherman. The list
goes on and on, and as far as graphic design went,
vivid colors were usually the order of the day. A
wide variety of typefaces would litter virtually every inch of
the magazine covers, and close cropped headshots mounted on cartoon
(28:15):
bodies were a cheesy but common gimmick.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, I mean, all the things that I can remember
they have, like the bubble lettering, Yeah, that infamous bubble
lettering and you knew what it was, uh yeah, Oh
my goodness. And of course we got different magazines based
on quality, some of them were paper, but some of
them were like glossy, so you had to pay for
the glossy version of people. I guess you still do
you technically. So with all these magazines finding success, there
(28:42):
was fierce competition and getting the right celebrity on the
cover of the magazines, and the level of starvedom could
be measured to who was being featured. Stories of celebrities
hanging around the offices at the beginning of their career,
to celebrities trying to remain far away from the covers
of the teeny Bob for publications to show that they
were quote serious. Actors were a part of this industry.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
However, with its popularity really hitting in the seventies, the
overall business eventually did die down. Here's another quote from
the mental Flass article. At its peak in the nineteen seventies,
Tiger Beat and its sister publications reached roughly two million
readers a month. Others got by on as little as
one hundred and thirty five thousand paid copies sold. The
nineteen nineties diversified with titles like teen People on Sassy
(29:28):
publications that brought a stronger editorial voice to readers and
eased up on the kind of copy that didn't exactly
enable feminism sail away with Ralph Macchio. In the nineteen nineties.
The popularity of the Backstreet Boys and n Sync helped
keep Tiger Beat and the others afloat, but not for long.
The Internet and social media excised the middleman, allowing stars
(29:51):
to control their exposure and deliver calculated glimpses into their
lives without teen Beat interfering.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Right, But even with this popularity waning during its heyday,
they thrived. In the seventies, they were popular, and soon
the industry realized its success and started to widen the grounds.
In the sixties and seventies, publishers started releasing team magazines
for people of color, specifically like the black community. Some
of them included Write on Black, Bead and Word Up.
(30:19):
Here's a bit about the growth and history of black
team magazines from the University of Missouri. Black magazines for
children and teenagers started out with the focus on black heritage,
arising out of the politically charged atmosphere of the nineteen
sixties and seventies. At issue was the need for magazines
that praised, rather than condemning, black history, and that offered
children role models in the black community. Like the discourse
(30:41):
around black hair, these magazines often gradually drifted away from
their original purpose and gained broader audiences, particularly if and
when they focused on products of black culture like music
or art, rather than specific Black individuals. Included in the
gallery are magazines from nineteen seventy three to nineteen ninety one,
starting with the educational Ebony Junior and continuing to more
(31:02):
teen centric magazines that did not exclusively target a black audience.
Perhaps telling, none of the magazines included in this gallery
had particularly long run times.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Magazine for Boys were also published and still are, but
the numbers are not too high. In fact, trying to
find specific publications and articles about the history of that
is not really readily available. Publications like Dirt, which was
released in nineteen ninety one with the emphasis on sports, music, movies,
and others, but it did not last too long.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
There are a few, and we found a few, but
they didn't people don't talk about it. Essentially. One of
the first things that I did read when small publications
were coming out or specific columns were coming out, they
would just imply that the regular Life magazine were for
boys or the regular National geographics were for boys, so
it was interesting and very telling about what they saw
(31:55):
and much like what we talked about with Lafer Boys
and pay Well. So there's that The overall success of
these magazines were huge, and when that comes controversies. Studies
have come out showing that overall effects of these magazines
for young girls and women. Many argued that these types
of content was not only damaging to the self esteem
(32:16):
of young developing girls and teens, but also very dangerous
for them, including being overly sexualized from a young age
or being told to be sexual. I have also we
have also ran into many articles condemning all of these magazines.
Saw one specifically about seventeen recently like a couple of
(32:36):
years ago, and how damaging it was and she would
never allow for her teenage girls to look at them,
which is fine again, I get that, and a lot
of conversations about how they felt like those magazines ruined
them as adults now and agoers. Many have accused them
of teaching unhealthy gender stereotypes and causing damage for many generations.
(32:57):
And like many magazines and similar publications, they often focus
on stereotypical ideas, so when it comes to women, and
young girls and beyond that, criticizing them into buying their
way into perfection, and unfortunately, many teen magazines followed suit.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
In a research article within the published book titled Body Image,
they write specifically about the effects of such magazines titled
Grooming ten year Old's Gender Stereotypes. A content analysis of
preteen and teen girl magazines and here's a quote. Mainstream magazines,
defined as those published by major media conglomerates in containing
commercial advertising, primarily feature women in stereotypically feminine roles or
(33:45):
as sexual objects. Content analyzes have found that these magazines
depict predominantly young Caucasian women with increasingly thin body types,
frequently displayed partially clothed and in sexual or submissive positions.
Similar have been found in mainstream magazines aimed at teenage viewers.
Content analyses of these magazines, eg. Seventeen, demonstrate that general
(34:09):
appearance and body problems are primary topics. For example, a
study of seventeen magazine found that girls' bodies are depicted
and described as problems that require maintenance to fix. Acne,
hair odour, and hip slash. Thy fat are targeted as
undesirable and unattractive features that require extensive body maintenance routines
(34:29):
to eliminate this Emphasis on appearance has been a dominant
focus in seventeen since at least the early nineteen sixties,
constituting approximately half of the magazine's content in nineteen sixty one,
nineteen seventy two, and nineteen eighty five. In addition, the
presence of dieting and exercise information has significantly increased in
(34:50):
mainstream teen girl magazines over the last fifty years, suggesting
that these magazines increasingly focus on solutions to appearance based problems.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Of course, with this in mind, we have to acknowledge
the way young people and girls specifically internalize these types
of ideas. Here's another quote from that research article. Several
studies have found that adolescent girls internalize media body ideals
to a greater degree and higher rates of body dissatisfaction
compared to adolescent boys. Experimental research has also shown that
(35:21):
exposure to magazine images of models predicts lower body satisfaction
and self esteem in adolescent girls. Even girls as young
as five show these patterns. These findings suggest that girls,
unlike boys, may begin to internalize cultural beauty standards portrayed
in media at a young age. And continue to do
so throughout development. So with the amount of meat content
(35:44):
young people consume, it isn't surprising to see how big
of an effect these kind of images can leave. And yeah,
again we are examples of this. We came from an
era of seeing tiny, tiny, tiny women and being told
if we're not this, then we're not worth their toime.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, and then being solved those products to make yourself
look that way when probably you never will. There's a
lot of as genetics, and it's also expensive.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And for some reason we believe the people who would
help them. I just remember the Suzanne Summers already, who
was tiny, tiny, tiny tiny, and she, because of her
body image, was able to sell thy masters like nobody's business,
and I believed it. I was really wanted one. Thank
god I didn't have the money, but I really did
(36:36):
want one anyway. So, but as a new era of
publication arose, so did the quality of content, and teen
magazines and many more in depth articles were starting to
be published. To be honest, seventeen started in an era
when young girls started to dream beyond a family and home.
(36:56):
Valentine's original image as the working woman's role model was
beyond the gender no norm at the time. Sure it
was clouded with capitalism and money making schemes, but it
was an idea that young girls wanted more and would
develop to be the decision makers when it comes to
consumership within the home and a little bigger fashion industry.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
This is making me think of a joke that people
will say about Playboy. I like they read it for
the articles, so we you know, we didn't even talk
about that, and the boy.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
We were not talked about. We have not talked about Playboy.
Dam you Eddie yours? I'm not doing that, all right,
all right?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
As the teen celeb magazines grew in popularity, other teen
magazines came out as well. In nineteen eighty eight, we
had the first counter magazine to seventeen, Sassy Magazine. Here's
the quote from NPR. Sasse was the antithesis of the
homecoming Queen, Please Your Boyfriend culture. It published articles about
suicide and STD while seventeen was still teaching girls how
(38:02):
to get a void to notice you.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
The magazine didn't last too long. It did stop publishing
in like the nineteen ninety four through nineteen ninety six.
There was two different dates, so there it is the
impact was long lasting. The founder, Sandra Yates, was an
Australian feminist who sought to bring men meaningful conversation to
teen magazines that took a bit of a dark look
at the culture at the time. The magazine was controversial
(38:27):
enough for groups like Women a Globe, which was an
evangelical group, to actually call for boycott. And then there's
Jane Pratt, who was the founding editor of SASE, and
she would go on to other publications with similar feels,
including Jane Magazine, which I know the magazine at the
time really wanted to change the look of teen girls magazines.
(38:49):
Here's a quote from a Washington Post article written by
Julia Carpenter which says, devoted readers remember Sassy, Jane and
other titles that published reporting on politics, feminism, identity and
more alongside fashion spreads through the nineteen nineties and early
two thousands. And in the late nineteen nineties we have
(39:09):
seen more publications talking about the deeper issues at hand
and even daring to call themselves feminist and asking their
teen readers are they feminists.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Here's a quote from the same Washington Post article. Editor
and writer Brandon Hawley led the charge at Elle Girl
when herst was first dipping its toes into the teen
mag business in two thousand and one. She recalls the
reaction when l Girl ran a cover story titled the
F Word? Are you a feminist? People were like, oh, feminism,
she says, adding that she finds it weird that seventeen
(39:41):
years later, we're still having this conversation. From those early
days of F word covers, Holly saw the teen magazine
landscape evolve and push the boundaries of what was considered
acceptable for teen readers. At Jane, where she worked from
two thousand and five to two thousand and seven, she
published reports on gay conversion therapy, SA, on work and money,
and even a multi page spread of readers submitted nudes
(40:04):
dubbed the Jane Guide to Breast.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah. Yes, and we still have to ask that question. Yeah,
that's really annoying because I think this article is liked
from like twenty seventeen. Well, anyway, and when the magazine's
coming out strong, many others have followed this down the
same path.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, and I believe there's been a past episode about
teen Vogue In's particular when it comes to this. But yeah,
it wasn't too long ago that we saw changes within
teen Vogue, countering conservative narratives and defending their rights to
our autonomy. Here's a quote from that same Washington Post article.
In December, an online opinion piece headlined Donald Trump is
(40:43):
gaslighting America appeared in teen Vogue magazine. Within hours, the
harsh indictment of the then president elect exploded on the Internet,
comment sections erupted in debate, and egglevators trolled the writer
teen Vogue Weekend editor Lauren Duka on Twitter. But it
wasn't just the subject of the article that caused the uproar.
(41:03):
It was the nature of the publication that it ran in.
What was the political piece doing in a teen magazine?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Right? And many magazines have understood the importance of teaching
young girls and women about topics like these. Even in
nineteen ninety eight, they began to openly talk about the
issues at hand. Here's a quote in nineteen ninety eight,
when she was at Cosmo, girl A. Tusa Rubinstein had
launched a political series called Cosmo twenty twenty four, named
for the year when one of the magazine's oldest reader
(41:33):
could theoretically be elected the first female president which is
this year. I kind of want to go say we
have come back to that. Obviously, no, but I'm just saying.
Rubinstein and Feature seventeen editor and choquette interviewed leaders like
Madeline Albright, Barbara Walters, and yeah, Donald Trump about the
(41:54):
paths to professional success. The final Package, a collection of
advice and essays on success and career building, fit the
promise in Cosmo Girls tagline Born to Lead, and then
Rubenstein would go on to lead major similar changes to
seventeen magazine, again the original a tea magazine.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
The growth of this type of change in these magazines
has impacted the industry as a whole. Here's a quote
to end with about the radical but not so radical changes.
So when Holly thinks about her time at teen magazine
and their history from El Girl to Jane and now
to teen Vogue, she thinks about her eight year old
son's friend, Fiona. Fiona loves lipgoss, but she can also
(42:34):
ride backward on a surfboard. At the Women's March on
Washington in January twenty seventeen, she held her own protest sign.
Girls like Fiona don't need just any magazine, Holly says,
they need a guide to womanhood that doesn't preach or condescend,
but instead educates and uplifts and most important reflects the
girls who are reading it. Teen magazines today are introducing
(42:56):
girls to feminism that isn't broad burning, which is also cool,
she said, But you can be feminine and a feminist.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Right And I think that's really important for looking at publications.
And yes, we're looking at more online publications more than anything.
But yes, there are obvious magazines still out and about
collectibles even if you want and enable to get a
hold up. But we know that today that kind of
written medium is getting less and less and less, and
(43:24):
a lot of magazines have folded throughout the years. We've
we've seen major histories, things that I the hope we're
still existing does not exist well, like that's that's one
of the things I've discovered in this research. But the
magazines like teen Vogue obviously have played a really important role,
especially in the last two elections as well as seventeen,
(43:45):
as well as Jane Magazine. We haven't talked about Miss
magazine at all. We haven't talked about magazine, which I
realized that we're gonna have to come back to, but
I don't. I'm not I'm not going to promise when anyway.
But all of those things are important. But teen magazines
have really really changed an atmosphere and the environment in
general when it comes to young girls and what we've become.
(44:07):
And it may be things like the nineteen ninety eight
article which talks about encouraging girls to think about being
the first female president. Like, all of these things are
pretty significant in our culture and it shows today why
we need to pay attention to the historical context and
what has changed throughout the years.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, well listeners, If you have any memories
with teen magazines, any thoughts, if you had a shrine
of your own perhaps, or any collectible issues, let us know.
You can email us at Stephaniamomsteph at iHeartMedia dot com.
(44:50):
You can find us on Twitter at mom step Podcasts,
or on TikTok and Instagram at steff when ever told
you we have a tea public store and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks is always too, super producer Christina, executive producer and
our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Steffan never told you us direction of iHeart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the iHeartRadio Apple podcast, or, if you listen to your
favorite show, h
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