May 16, 2024 • 55 mins
In an earlier episode, the guys delved into the modern mystery of Genghis Khan's hidden grave, and found he was far from the only famous historical figure lost to secrecy and the inevitable march of time. Travel with the gang as they unravel more stories of humanity's famous lost tombs, hidden corpses and more in the first part of this two-part series.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning to you with a
classic episode. This is the first of a two part
series Famous Lost Tombs.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Do you guys remember this one?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (00:11):
Yes, I could we forget the famous lost tomb of Djengis.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Khan and those other guys.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And those several other people, so many that this is
a two part episode. I think we're all a little
fuzzy on the exact details here, so we'll be exploring
it along with you. I can't wait to hear what
you think.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Nolan.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We are joined with our returning guest super producer, Casey
the Khan pegro Kh a n Yes, very important. Also,
most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes
this stuff they don't want you to know. Today's episode
is a bit of a rabbit hole for us. I
(01:21):
mean every episode's a bit of a rabbit hole for
everyone involved. But we have a little bit of backstory
here in a previous episode of this show, we explored
this strange, ongoing and likely doomed quest to find the
grave of Jengis Khan, and we also discovered that as
the correct pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yes, Genghis Khan is now Jengis Khan, like like Djenga,
like the game No No, No, that's Carl Tart.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
And along the way, we learned that not only is
it's nearly impossible for anyone to find the cons actual
resting place, not only is it maybe possible that people
know where it is and will never share that information,
but we learned a lesson that Matt, you and I
learned years and years ago when we looked at lost civilizations,
(02:16):
and that is that this species on the whole is
just terrible at holding on to or remembering anything. We've
lost the location of tons of other immensely important historical figures.
And sure, sometimes that's through honest, boneheaded mistakes, moments of
instability and confusion as empires rise and fall, and in
(02:40):
some other cases it's on purpose, it's through purposeful obscucation.
But before we explore all the famous, incredibly crucial historical
figures who have disappeared from the modern day, we have to.
We have to admit that there's some deceptive number play
(03:02):
at work here. When you think about it, folks, most
people's tombs are lost. Over ninety percent of people's tombs
are lost in the big picture. But what do we
mean when we say that here are the facts.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, it's a combination of quite a few different factors.
But overall there are two really important things that really
are stick in the craw of your Laura Crofts of
the world.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
First, tombs were expensive, and honestly that's not any different today.
If you want like a fancy burial or some kind
of mausoleum or a plot. You know, land is scarce,
lots of people die. You know, it's quite an expense
unless you just want to let go the cheap route.
And even then you got to pay for a damn arn.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, funerals are a racket in this I can't recall
whether we've done an episode on this yet, but funerals
are very much a racket, at least in the West.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
And you know, if your family is in the funereal business,
I know there's the whole notion that it is a comfort,
it is a service you are providing. That's one way
to look at it, but there is absolutely money to
be made, and people are often kind of swindled into
overpaying four things in memory of their loved one or
as some kind of tribute to them when I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's it's the old Brenees thing that we talked about
in episode one. Guys create the need, well, yeah, create
the need and then don't be swayed. As the consumer
or the person going through some kind of traumatic emotional thing,
you can't be swayed by those pleas to your emotion.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So a point being this remains true today, but throughout
the course of history, the vast majority of people were
buried in much more modest structures, or in some cases
the body was just burned. That was back when you
could burn your own loved ones. Now you can't do
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I mean you can't get hot. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair, man.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Geez, that smell really gives it away.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Or there were things like sky burial, you know what
I mean, where the funereal process becomes more important than
the physical resting site.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Isn't that kind of coming back. Isn't there such a
thing as like green burials or modern sky burials.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I don't know about modern sky burials, but green burials
are definitely huge. And in our home state of Georgia
here in the US, there is a nearby Catholic monastery
that practice that's one of the only two places I
believe in the United States that practices green burial. And
that's a good observation to know, because with green burial,
(05:27):
the idea is that ultimately everything involved in the burial,
from the box, to the wrappings around the corpse, to
the corpse itself will just become part of the.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Soil, leave no trace, no gravesite left behind.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
And that's how many many people ended their lives, right.
They were maybe in some cultures, thrown into the sea,
were in some unfortunate places.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
People just rotted where they fell, that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And as we said a minute ago, there's also the
issue of scarcity of burial sites because there are just
so many people.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
There are so many people, especially if we look over
the long term. All right, let's do something very cheerful
and dive into some of the death statistics, the statistics
of morbidity or fatalities. We were able to find, in
a very rough way, the number of people who have
(06:27):
died ever, Like, not from nineteen fifty on, not from
seventeen seventy, whatever on.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But it's up until twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's up until twenty fifteen. But I messed with the
math a little, oh okay, got it to twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Oh awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So, according to the Population Research Bureau, modern Homo sapiens,
meaning people who were more or less like all of
us listening now, are this hot, new fangled Homo sapien
stick to the earth about fifty thousand years ago, and
(07:02):
since then, more than one hundred and eight billion members
of our species have been born. That's a rough number
because again, we have virtually no demographic data for ninety
nine percent of the span of human existence. Forty nine
thousand years ago, people weren't like, hey, let's get the
tribe together and figure out everybody's average age, interest and
(07:26):
preference for you know, type of food, type of leisure.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, they weren't so much into analytics back then.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Surprisingly not these days.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
We can't get enough of them, correct, but we did.
We did find a pretty accurate number, right.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Man.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
If we do a little simple math, we can find
some astonishing things so let's take a fairly accurate number
of people living on the planet today. That's seven point
seven billion. Again very rough, because longtime listeners, if you
remember an Earth earlier episode, Matt, you actually pulled up
(08:03):
the world population clock and we looked at how many
people were born and died just in the forty five
minutes that we spent doing the episode.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I can't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere
around ten thousand that were added while we recorded the other.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. So welcome if you're listening.
So all we have to do is a little bit
of subtraction. Take that seven point seven billion away from
the one hundred and eight billion who have ever been born,
and we arrive at this.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Number around one hundred billion, three hundred million human beings
that have died on this.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Planet overall, just on the in the course of this
ugly brutal thing called human life on Earth. And so
with this in mind, we can we can easily see
that we don't know where all one hundred billion, three
hundred million graves are, right, and many, many, many many
(09:01):
of those people didn't get a grave at all, you know,
like you said, no many were probably burned or disposed
of according to the cultural values or moray's of the time.
And when we think about this, it means it's reasonable
to assume that many people got lost in the historical shuffle.
As we said, empires rise, they changed names, the rulers
(09:26):
change families, names of cities change. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople.
And that's nobody's business, but it's sort of everybody's, et cetera.
And not for nothing did Shelley write the poem Osymandias,
which is great?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Oh yeah, look on my works, ye mighty, and disperse
all of this sand, look at it.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yes, yeah, that's a poem that I hope is familiar
with a lot of people. It's quoted to great effect
in the Ballad of Buster Scrut recently debuting on Netflix.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Oh, in the Super Bummer episode right, Super Bummer vignette.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
But the guy does a great excerpt of it, he
really does. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I say this every time we bring up Ozzy Mandius.
It was my grandfather's favorite poem, and he would recite
it all the time because he was beautifully obsessed with
his own mortality, and he would just constantly talk about
Ozzy Mandias.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Were you ever like grandpa? You're kind of freaking me out.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, it was this, I don't know. It was a
really charming thing about him in a weird way.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Did he have a good voice for it?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh he did.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
My grandpa just drank and grunted.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, perhaps he was reciting something.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Too in his head was happening. He didn't share it
with me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So so we know that. Unfortunately, we're never going to
find the resting place of most people on the planet.
That's that's just the way things have shaken out for
us so far. But what about the people who were
a big deal? This is interesting what you're saying, Matt,
(11:03):
about your grandfather having this fascinating obsession with his own mortality.
Because virtually every culture in our history, in one way
or another, venerates the dead. Death is up there with
birth one of the huge inexplicable things.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Tons of people personally believe that they know or have
an inkling of what happens, right, and some people agree
and many people don't. But no one has come up
with something that everyone can get on board with, right,
So it's this mystery, and we do our best to
honor or remember our loved ones, or in some cases
(11:46):
and some gory cases, to vilify the people we despise.
And each year hundreds of millions of people make pilgrimages
to one resting place or another. It could be like
Jim Morrison's grave in Europe, right, it could be. It
could be a resting place of lenin you know.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Or yeah, And it's usually a famous or powerful person,
or a famously powerful person, yes.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yes, or a powerfully famous person. So it seems reasonable
then that, since since our species pays so much attention
to this, it seems reasonable to assume that we can
at least keep track of, if not everybody, the most
important people who ever lived.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Right, you'd think, of course, Nah, it turns out no, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
End of show, Well credits.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We'll tell you why this is the case after a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Not even counting the normal people like you and I,
like everybody who's ever.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Lived, the over one hundred billion normal people.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Right right, we have lost tons and tons and tons
of incredibly influential historical figures over the ages. We can
divvy it up into a couple of rough categories. Spoiler alert,
we do not have the wherewithal to go into every
single famous person who has disappeared or been hidden from history,
(13:24):
but we can touch on some interesting stories that are
not Jengis Khan. We've got stories of misplaced corpses, stories
of rumored burial sites, and these are old, old rumors too,
as we'll find. And then we also have stories of
people who were purposely buried in secret.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So let's get let's get it started with all. Alexander
the Great, let's get it started in here. Yep, Alexander
the third of Macedon, Is that correct? Great?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Is that is a different way of saying Macedonia.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It became Messay's age Masadon. It was one of the
world's This this gentleman was one of the world's greatest
military minds. We've probably heard of him just from classes
way way back in the day. Maybe you're in one
right now listening to this. If so, shame on you
put your phone away.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Confused with our amazing cohort alex the Great.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, correct, But in this gentleman Alexander the Third's short life,
he established the largest empire the ancient world had ever
seen up to that point, and it lasted that way
for a while it was the Great Empire.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, it's so weird when you read about these people.
His his moniker is not ironic. He was Alexander the Great.
It was not like a little John name. And I
think about conquerors like this every time I do something
really dumb, like this guy was died in his thirties,
took over most of the known world at the time,
(14:52):
and two weeks ago I fell asleep trying to put
on a pair of pants.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know what I mean. It makes you think, it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Really really does.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I just recently learned, you know how much I love
acronym's goat Greatest of all time. Yeah, so he could
have been alex He's the original goat. Alexander the Goat.
That's what I'm gonna call him.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
This is it, This is it. Well, here's the thing.
Alexander the Great was just a regular old guy doing
all this conquering with his giant armies, you know, his
numerous giant armies that roamed the planet.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Died feeling like a failure. Yeah, even though he did
name a city after himself.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Just goes to show, just goes to show. We all
have imposter syndrome. All of us. No matter what you know,
no matter how much you achieve, how much you conquer,
it's never enough unless you get right with yourself and
love yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And so far everybody has died no matter what they do.
It turns out life is a terminal condition.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Except for that one guy. You remember that's a different
years ago or so. You remember we're talking about spatist
one guy. I can't remember his name, all right, So
oh and Henrietta lax Ah, there you go. Immortality via
cancer cells. Okay, So here's here's one of the big things.
(16:09):
It's not exactly known, or at least as debated, how
he died, but it is known when he died.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
M Yeah, yeah, three twenty three BCE and Babylon. But
but you're raising an interesting point, Matt. We don't know
too much about how we died. Was it malaria, was
it poisoning? Was it West Nile virus. There's a somewhat idealized,
romanticized account that says he died of heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Oh my gosh, that's not a thing.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
People have died of heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
They need to suck it up, and you know, start
going to the gym.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You know, you've got all this advice for these ancient people, they.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Really do in this time, in this time in human civilization,
just surviving was like being at the gym all the time.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
That's what I'm saying, though, Like, you know, with everything
that was getting thrown at you, how are you gonna
die of a broken heart? That just sounds like giving
up to me.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
That's surprisingly cold.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Man.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Hey, listen, I've been through the ringer this year, okay,
last year.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, okay, I see, I see what You're.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Come out the other side though, hear knew me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
What's that quote, be kind for everyone is facing I'll
do it again, be kind for everyone is facing a
great battle. It's one of Chuck Bryant's favorite quotes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Actually, that's a good point.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It's also one of those things about being It's like
you could rephrase that to be nice to the person
everyone you meet, because they could be dealing with something
that you do not know.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
About, yeah, or you know the golden rule, Just treat
them like you want to be treated.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah. So what happens?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So okay, So there's this idea debatable probably not true,
that he died of good old fashioned grief over the
death of his best friend ifestion.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I don't know. I heard via the internet that the
h is silent, but I know Hefestianfestian expert.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So what happens though, like I, regardless of how he dies,
he dies around three twenty b CE.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So what happens after that, Well.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I mean his corpse. He's the guy that conquered most
of the world, at least in the known world, as
we said, and his body is going to be venerated
in some way in probably some you know, grandiose fashion.
That's just what's going to happen. No matter what. His
body's going to be an artifact for what comes after
(18:36):
him now that the leader is dead, because there's going
to be a power struggle, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because in this case, his body becomes
a symbol. In some ways, possessing his body gives an
implicit endorsement of your right to rule.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Almost like oh that is so strange treat it almost
has an air in a way, or being an heir
to it because you have it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, yeah, possession being nine tenths of the law, and
so on.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So first his body's mummified and for two years it
lay in state in a golden sarcophagus, and eventually the
people were fighting about where he should be placed, where
he should be buried, make a decision, and they decide
to bury him in Greece, in the first capital of
the Macedonian kings, whoa in.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
A place called Egay. And I again the Internet says
I should pronounce it that way. It's spelled ae Gae.
We're just going with it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But the plan goes arise, isn't that correct? Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah? According to ancient sources, his his hearse that was
actually you know, his body was traveling in was hijacked
of all things near Damascus, and his corpse was taken
to Egypt, and it was first I guess it was
first taken to Memphis in Egypt, not the home of
the other king.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Right away before Elvis.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And then from there things start to get fuzzy. Sometime
between two ninety eight and two eighty three BCE, his
body is taken to Alexandria, the city we mentioned earlier
that he founded and named after himself, and then from
there he gets disinterred and put in at least two
(20:30):
other places, the most famous being a mausolem called the Soma.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
The Soma which I believe is a isn't that an
herb that kind of makes you sleepy? And I think
there's a antipsychotic medication called Soma, or at least it's
some kind of Valium esque type drug.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's a drug in Brave New World by Aldus Huxley.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe it's not even real.
I wonder if the real drug was named after the
drug in Huxley, Because there really is a drug called Soma.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I think the real drug is a muscle relaxer. I
think you want to say, I've been prescribed it before
but didn't take it. It's also it's also a wonderful,
wonderful I like. I like using this word for this
horror game, like a psychological horror game.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
It's also a quite good Smashing Pumpkins song from before
Billy Corgan lost his damn mind.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is a brand name of a real drug.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's Kara Sofra Doll. That's the one that is the
one to.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
All that aside drugs, Smashing Pumpkins, imaginary drugs. This is
where in this mausoleum, the Soma the looting began, as
is wont to happen with graves. It's basically like a
big old target in the ground saying hey, free stuff, Yeah,
if you want to get your hands dirty and possibly
(21:48):
your soul.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, and you know, Alexander found himself or his body
at least inside a giant golden sarcophagus. I believe we
mentioned very inconspicuous. Yeah, and what do you do when
you have a giant thing made out of gold? You
melt it down, of course you do. And that happened,
but it got replaced with like a glass sarcophagus, or
(22:11):
at least a glass container or some kind of crystalline container,
which is fascinating to me. I really would have liked
to have seen that.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, it's it's strange because you have to wonder did
they decide did they decide that gold, being you know,
a currency at times today, is decide that was just
asking for trouble to make another golden thing, and they decided, well,
glass is nice, and glass and crystal are expensive, but
no one will steal it to try to pay for things.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And also,
you know, whoever is running the show now, you need
a lot of gold and money to pay for all
the war that you're waging, right, because we're empire building
here people. Yeah, I mean it's not cheap.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's game on.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Even Cleopatra, who don't worry, shows up later in this story,
took gold from this tomb to pay for her war
against Octavian. There you go, and the things continued to
get worse, which is kind of the story of humanity.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Oh man, no question about it. In three sixty CE,
there were a series of unfortunate events that included warfare, rioting,
an earthquake, a tsunami. All of this threatened or possibly
even destroyed the tomb. By the time Saint John Chrysostom
visited in four hundred CE, the tomb was lost, and
(23:32):
ever since then no one has been able to find
the resting place of one of history's greatest conquerors.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And Alexander the Great rip is just out there somewhere.
His remains exist because it takes a long time for
bones in the human body to break down.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yep, it's there, So traces of him may well be
somewhere in some form, right, but he is now Also,
it's fair to call him Alexander the Lost. Searches continue
for his remains or his tomb to date, but no
one has found it. One thing we can say, and
(24:11):
I don't want to sound too cynical about this, is
that this this makes a lot of careers. The search
for these sorts of lost sites can literally change the
course of human history. And so as we're speaking, if
you're an archaeologist or a budding archaeologist researching this or
(24:35):
something like this, we want to hear from you. Let
us know what your search, your particular search is, and
let us know what you think your fellow listeners would
be surprised to learn about it. In the meantime, let's
fast forward.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I just right here before we get into it. I
watched a movie with my wife last night, and I
couldn't tell you the name of it right now. It
just showed up on one of the streaming sites and
she had wanted to see it. It's all about this
woman who goes back to college with her daughter to
become an archaeologist, and I just happened. I had no
idea that that was the plot.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Is it a heartwarming rom com it?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I guess it's kind of bad, but.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It is a psychological thriller. No.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I couldn't even tell you who's in it or what
it was.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
It was.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Not bird Bucks. Oh, I can't believe. I can't even
think of it right now.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Is it police Academy for that's what it was?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Okay, anyway, it just happened to have an archaeologist archaeology
B plot line that may be very happy nice.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's fascinating. I have a subscription to Archaeology Magazine. Well, okay, look,
I mind it for possible episodes in the future. I'm
just gonna be honest.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I inexplicably have a subscription to Maxim. It just started coming.
I can't get it to stop.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I think that's something that happens in the magazine industry
that I'd love to look into, because I had a
former girlfriend who inexplicably began receiving a subscribe to Moohair magazine,
and Moohair Magazine is a lifestyle fashion interest thing for
(26:09):
the Latino population in the US North America, I guess.
And we couldn't get them to stop sending it. Like
I emailed them. I sent an actual letter and they
still kept sending Moohair.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
As far as I know, you know, the my ex
and I are on good terms, so I could probably
write to her and ask her she might still be
getting mouhair like they locked it down.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
There was no way out there.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
It's like she's moved three times, still follows her wherever
she goes.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, we have that with Rolling Stone. Somehow my wife
still gets Rolling Stone sent to our house. We have
not paid for that. I don't even know how long
we should look into this. This is actually I think
we might have just uncovered a new conspiracy. Is it
worth sending us these magazines for the advertising that we
are potentially looking at.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
That just just to just claim circulation, right, just to
boost That's fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I love magazines.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I canceled a lot of subscriptions because we receive them
here at work and I read a ton of them.
But uh but anyway, yeah, but anyway that that may
well be a future episode. Tell us about the magazine
subscriptions that you are non consensually receiving, please, and and
we'll hatch this conspiracy with you if you need it.
(27:23):
It's a bit unethical, but if you have a subscription
that you want people to think you are non consensually receiving,
right to us, and we will totally pretend that you
are non consentually receiving it beautiful? Someone's like, no, I
hate a Horseback monthly.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So it's there's so many weird magazines. Yeah, gosh, okay, yeah,
we're going to do an episode on that.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Let's let's let's definitely do that. And let's also jump
forward to a really cool figure in history, mister Thomas Paine.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, let's bring the pain, Matt. What's what's the gist
about this guy?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, he's an He's an Englishman, an England born political philosopher.
He's a writer. You certainly have heard about him. He
supported the revolutionary causes in both America and in Europe.
He's perhaps best known for the old seventeen seventy six
essay Common Sense, along with other works such as The
American Crisis, Rights of Man and the Age of Reason,
(28:22):
which is a really great read actually, and I didn't
expect it to be when I cracked that thing open.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, it's very readable.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
It's strange because I think we sometimes have a stereotype
about things written in English in that period of time,
where they're going to be dry, and every sentence is
going to be three paragraphs long.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yes, and you're not going to understand most of it.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Largely responsible for the philosophy behind enlightenment thinking and also
our monument buddies, the Georgia guidestones.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Pain in flies on those guys huge.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
They were huge and up pain that is a weird
mixed accent. And again, my grandfather. The reason why I
read it is because my grandfather, old Papa, brought it,
brought it to my attention.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It's a it's a good read, you know, And I
know I know these the idea. There are certain trigger
words people here that make them not want to read things.
One of those is essay ye. The other is you know,
I think reason or rights. But he was writing to
communicate with the common people, you know what I mean.
He wasn't trying to do fancy acts of rhetorical gymnastics
(29:30):
or acrobatics. But eventually, despite all the great things that
he did, he also spoiler alert died.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Oh man, I was hoping it was going to go
the other way.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
He's outside of the studio right now, Matt waiting to
talk to him.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I only wish.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
About his multi level marketing scheme.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Oh god, it's kind of a good news bad news
es Central oils again Pain. So he died on June eighth,
eighteen nine, in New York City, and today he is
the only founding father that does not have an official
gravesite that you can go and visit. There Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm so surprised.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Why, let's talk about what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Let's so, he was first buried in New Rochelle, New York,
on his farm after the Quakers refused him, in a
town that was very, very hostile towards this man.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, because he criticized the Quakers during his lifetime for
their pacifism and for some of their other political beliefs.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
And in eighteen nineteen, a pain admirer named William Cobbett,
himself a Democrat, a Democratic advocate rather from England, saw
the disrespect that Paine received where he was buried and
decided to dig him up. Took it upon himself to
dig the man up. Just grabbed a shovel, just grabbed
a shovel, heartwise, the heart ones, that's true, and to
(30:57):
take him to England where he would be treated with
more respect. And he wanted to help spur the movement
for democracy there. So I guess he saw this as
sort of a symbolic act.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, again, using a dead body for almost for definitely
a political reason, and.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Did it work.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Not really, There's still a monarchy in that area of
the world. There's a parliament, sure, yeah, a House of
lords and a House of Commons.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That should tell you what you need to know.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Well, here in the States we basically just have two
houses of lords. So at least I don't I don't know.
Isn't that kind of the same thing. The representative represented
the people, which would be the commons, and then the
senators are more like the lords.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Interesting, the senators on paper are also supposed to represent
the people.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
That's fair, haha.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Psych So, over the years, Pain's body was divided, it
was split, the bones were circulated across the planet. People
were making relics of his remains, and now we have
(32:02):
we don't know where the bones are. We don't know
where pieces of this guy's body are. There's a Thomas
Pain foundation that has some of his hair and a
bit of his brain. They admit to owning that, but
there were unverified rumors that some of Thomas Pain's bones
were cut into get this guy's buttons and sold to
finance the revolution nice, But thing is kind of like
(32:24):
in the Middle Ages when people would unscrupulously sell, you know,
slivers of the Jesus the cross on which Jesus Christ
was crucified. There are enough slivers of that stuff to
make a forest essentially.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Or it's like those Passion of the Christ necklaces.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Oh yeah, or any and all holy water ever.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Well, holy water, you can you could just make holy water.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Was it you we were having I was having this
conversation with somebody about hunting vampires. In vampire films, there's
almost always a priest, right, yeah, And the priest has
the ability to bless water, making it holy and therefore
dangerous for vampires. Why don't they just like bless a
(33:10):
water treatment system or like a storm or something just
a well, yeah, how does it work to start getting buckets?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Well?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Anyway, there, there you go, vampire producers, check out our show.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And now that now that the Universal Life Church of
California exists, literally all of us have a massive defense
of it against vampires because we can just get ordained
with in a few minutes.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Isn't that where your ordination is from?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, and me as well exactly, it's the only
one that is not ordained. Yes, we've talked about this.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
Let's get on this train, but I guess I got
to get on the ordained train.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Casey is ordained. Look at him, he's in he's in
three or four different sects that he's a minister for.
And I think a priest, a priestess, and what was
the other thing.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
A shaman?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
A mage? He's a mage. What are you making this up?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yes, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Back to this idea of counterfeiting relics very common in
ancient days and surprisingly common still in the eighteen hundreds.
There were more buttons that were purportedly Thomas Paine's bones
that were sold than could have come from ten bodies.
You could build a jam band off the amount of
(34:25):
buttons sold, well, the skeletons of a jam band.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, I want It makes you wonder who else was
in that jam band that ended up as a Thomas
pain button.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes. These were also the days of resurrection, then, weren't they.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Do you think that any of those are still around
and they're confirmed to be pain buttons around?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yes? Confirmed?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
No, because how could you, well you could there are
some forms of testing could you to verify it, because
there are rumors of a leg bone hanging in a
wall of a tavern in England, and then there are
other place that would be Thomas Pain rights large enough
sample where you could try to do some investigatory thing.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
You could probably at least narrow down the timeframe and
the region.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Is that kind of what you're saying, right, You could
do some analyses that would indicate that there are also
some pieces that were claimed in Europe. It's possible that
the skull has been located in Wales and then later
moved to Australia, but to the point no testing has
confirmed this, and today it seems that Pain's remains are
(35:27):
largely scattered amidst various grizzly collections and some unscrupulous private collectors.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
There are more of these people than you think. My friends.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Likely have pieces of Thomas Pain held in a secret
collection today, sort of the way that a particular secret
society here in the United States collects skulls that is wow,
creatively named the Skull and Bones.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
By the way, that's who we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, that's true. Just sitting there, do you think maybe
they have it?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I don't know, but you know what, honestly, I would
not be that surprised if they had.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A piece of it.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
It would make so much sense. Oh yeah, that's Yale.
Oh dude, they totally have something in there. Hey. By
the way, twenty three and Me, if you're listening, just
whoever you.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Are, you are, I saw this news.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Just go ahead and just get on there and just
start just testing them bones especially, go to the skull
and bones first.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Oh then, I thought you were talking about the twenty
three a Me news that just came out now here
about what is?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I super producers, could we get a breaking news sound cue?
So twenty three and Me has teamed up with a
drug manufacturer, pharmaceutical giant named.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Glaxo like Smith Klein.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Uh huh, Glaxo Smith Clin.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
They're giving the they're giving away the DNA test results
of the five million something customers of twenty three and Me.
What Glaxos Smith Clein will use this data to create
research and create new drugs.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
What called it called? It said it was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh my god, I gotta tell Jason, our executive producer,
because he totally just did that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Well, go ahead and preemptively thank him for possibly contributing
to important medical research.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
There you go, there you go against his will. Well,
I mean, yeah, he clicked the terms of service. You know,
once you do that, it's like you don't know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
That told us, They told us in their offices they
wouldn't do this.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
So should we take a little break before we get
to rumored burial places?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Sounds good. Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
And we are back, as Matt would say, with no delay.
He said it once and I was taken by it.
I don't know what it means, but I like it
very much.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, you can hear. This is a very dry track.
There aren't a lot of effects on it. Definitely no delay.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Also, it means that we're getting right to it. Rumored
burial places number one with a bullet on the list.
The Queen Nephrititi of ancient Egypt. She was a queen
of Egypt, the wife of the pharaoh Akanatan, who ruled
in the mid fourteenth century BCE. So before Nefertiti and Akanatan,
Egypt had been a polytheistic civilization worshiping an entire pantheon
(38:31):
of anthropomorphic animal deities, ranging from the crocodile god Sobek,
who was depicted often as a man with the head
of a crocodile, a staff in one hand and an
ank that Egyptian symboled a little loop with the cross
through it in the other, and with a weirdly a
giant golden temple acting as some sort of larger than
life crown sitting atop his scaly head. And then you
(38:54):
had like God's like Anubis, who has depicted the god
of the Dead, who has depicted very much the same
way as Sobec, was only with the head of a
jackal and a last no golden temple headpiece.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah, I love I love the idea of all the
gods being a person with a different animal head. That
is really I actually really like that. But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Akan Natan and his queen thought. This whole worshiping multiple
animal headed gods was for the literal birds, not not
to be confused with the ibis headed god of wisdom Thoth,
which is so fun to say Thoth. It's just I
got a thch on the front end and a thch
on the back end.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, man, I love that. I really do. Like EBIs
or what is it, Thoth is the god. I've seen
that in so many different places. Anyway, the Pharaoh thought
it would be a good, a better idea at least
to stick with. Just let's call it one god. This
will be easier. We can all, you know, know that
there's one singular force that we can worship. Let's say,
(39:55):
let's say the Sun, that giant orange thing that just
shoots light at us all the time and it makes
us warm and happy. That's a good thing to worship.
Let's do that seems legit.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
It's important to note that the sun disc also known
as Attan, had already held a place in ancient Egyptian
religion and the state's way back to the Old Kingdom,
where it was worshiped as an aspect of the composite
god Raw A'mun Horus. And this is not to get
too into the weeds about it, but Raw represents the
(40:26):
daytime Sun I'mun, the son of the underworld Horus of course,
the rising Sun.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I love the idea of a composite god.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That is so cool to me. It's really common in
the ancient world.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah, yeah, but it's something we don't really think about everything.
Every god is kind of their own thing. Oh, although
it is kind of similar to the Trinity, like the Trinity, right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
The Monotheism. That's they didn't make that up out of
whole cloth.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Right, Monotheism being exactly where we're headed.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Right, So this is this is this is backstory that
we promise will deliver. So what what happens next? Because
you have to know this stuff about polytheism and monotheism, right.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Yes, Akannat and effort TD attempted with all their might
to obliterate all traces of we're gonna go Game of
Throne style and call them the old gods by defacing carvings, temples,
and hieroglyphics that depicted them.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
And you know, this didn't go over so well with
you know, the general public that had been worshiping these
gods for so long.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
That's right. And neither did it last particularly long, right, Bem.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
That's right, it did not. It did not.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It wasn't as unsuccessful as New Coke when that came out,
but it was still pretty No, it was actually way
worse than New coke.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Or crystal pepsi.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Because I believe that Akinnatin rained for seventeen years, and
this whole worshiping the Sun god business came in about
three or four years into his reign, So that's kind
of a blip in ancient Egyptian history.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Right, And the people who came after Aka Natan did
their best to erase him and Nefertiti herself from official history.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And this is important.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
So we don't talk about this as much as we
should in the modern day, but it is true that
the victors write the history textbooks you read, and they
are the ones who tell the stories of events in
the past.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And it is at least back.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Then, it was alarmingly easy to erase people from history,
and Stalin did it during his reign. These subsequent pharaohs
did it as well, and you can see why they
did it, whether or not you agree with them. It
is true that this could pose a clear and present
danger to their own legitimacy.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Yeah, absolutely, And Nefertiti went right along with this whole deal,
because she actually disappeared from the historical record before her
husband did, about twelve years into his so it's possible
that she might have died. There was a plague, as
we know, that swept through Egypt around this time. But
there are some Egyptologists who believe that she was actually
(43:09):
elevated to co regent and changed her name therefore kind
of slipped out of the historical record into a new role.
And then the name Nefertia disappeared, and she was named
something that sounded remarkably like Nefertiti. I can't remember exactly
what it was, but it was sort of a it
was almost like a permutation of the name Nefertiti. And
the thing is too, in a lot of the historical record,
(43:30):
or a lot of the depictions of she and her husband,
they were very much on the same level. She already
had a lot of power even before this possible elevation
to literal coregient like vice president or really I think
a co regent would be like fifty to fifty co ruler, right, oh, yeah,
so that's one possibility, But there's more. Many archaeologists believe
(43:53):
that she could have been buried in one of the
tombs of what's now called Amarna, which there's a new
capital city that Akanatan built during his reign.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Whoa, right, Yeah, these tombs were plundered after Akinnaton's death,
so it is possible that never Titi could have been
reburied in the Valley of Kings. The thing is, people
will tell you that, no matter how much animosity there
was for her and her husband, no pharaoh would normally
(44:28):
deny a former ruler the burial accorded to their station,
even somebody that everybody hated, like Acnon.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And here's something that we I don't think we've even
mentioned this yet. She had a very important steps on.
You may know himton Common Tuton Common, Yes, old king
Tut that we have discussed and before on this show
about the curse that existed for his tomb.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh yeah, and I think inbreeding was the curse of
his lifetime. Have you seen the forensic analysis. Also, I
like to think of him as the originator of the
phrase tut tut.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I'm a big fan, like I like the single tut
that you do.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Ben. You said, that's very tout.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yes, it is when something is very touch Yeah, when
something's touch well.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And the idea that she had such a famous and
powerful son in law that perhaps her body was actually
you know, put in his tomb somewhere.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
That's right. Not to mention the fact that he took
over after his father in law died, and he is
also the one that pretty much instantly started the process
of going back, taking Egypt back to the old polytheistic
ways and refurbishing all of those desecrated sites and monuments
and hieroglyphs and all of that business. But yes, you're
absolutely right this theory that Nephertiiti's body was possibly buried
(45:48):
in her son in law's tomb. There's one part of
it that is super interesting, is this idea that that
tomb may have actually been meant for Neffertiti in the
first place, but that Tutenkommon died unexpectedly quite young, the
boy king, right, because one piece of evidence behind this,
it's all it seems a little conjectury, but it's that
it was a much smaller tomb than some of the
(46:08):
other ones, and that if it was for a woman
they might have considered it diminutive less then, so they
might have made it smaller. But you could also argue
that it was for a boy, and that you could
say the same thing in that respect. But here's the thing.
This theory was put forth by an Egyptologist named Nicholas Reeve,
who's the director of the Amarna Royal Tombs Project. He
(46:28):
commissioned some radar scans of the site of Tuton Common's
tomb and they supposedly showed evidence of two secret chambers,
complete with masonry walls and quote, metallic and organic substances.
But there are other experts who aren't so sure that
this was definitive of what he wanted it to be.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Kind of yeah. And then of course, as soon as
a theory like that comes along, you've got somebody else
who comes along and says, well, I'm gonna do some scans,
and we're gonna or we're at least gonna relook at
the scans that we're done, see what we have here.
And according to this other group of scientists in this case,
it's Lawrence Conyers, who's at the University of Denver. He's
(47:11):
an anthropology professor. By the way, he's looking at these
scans and he's saying it, quote, it does not appear
that these GPR ground penetrating radar data have been processed
or that any of the so called anomalies are visible
in the raw data that are provided.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
This guy, by the way, I saw this in every
thing that cited this dude. He wrote the book on
ground penetrating Radar.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
There you go. It's gonna make a joke about penetrating
the ground via that old poet laureate of the West.
But we'll go back to Let's go back to the
quote he says, My suggestion to those who are collecting
it is that they release the raw data for some
peer review by other GPR people before they allow the
(47:53):
antiquities people to hold a press conference about all the
riches that might be in these supposed tombs. That peer
review would cut down all the speculation and critiques that
have been going on around the email for the last
few days, as there might be, as there might be
as many scientists who could reach a consensus in advance
of the speculation in the press.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
This was in twenty sixteen, By the way, I was
not able to find any more recent updates to this.
But in twenty sixteen Egypt's Antiquities ministry refused to follow
Kanyer's advice or acknowledge another series of scans that were
carried out by National Geographic Or with their assistance, saying
they would independently test the site. Instead, Reeve and his
(48:35):
co author were allowed to present their findings unchallenged within
the Egyptology community in Egypt. So I don't know. Ben,
we were talking about this off air. It seems like
the ministry here is protecting their like what tourism kind
of booned this could produce. I'm confused as to why
(48:56):
they would be so secretive or not allow other perspectives
in this in this discussion.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Could it be grant money coming in from NGOs or
some other.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Thing, or it could be grant money, It could be
a unsc thing, It could be it could be any
number of things. We do know that in some cases,
state organizations like this are incentivized or incentive, depending on
which word you prefer, to preserve a certain status quo.
(49:25):
It happens. It happens as well in Central America and Mexico,
where in some cases some countries don't want a lost
site to be found because then they are responsible for
restoring and maintaining it. It also could, and this is
somewhat depressing, it could just be a matter of corruption.
They may have just not greased the right palms yet,
(49:48):
but they did allow him to like they just didn't respond, right.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
Yeah, No, I mean they definitely did. It wasn't even
the father of GPR or whatever. He was just kind
of weighing in on this, and I think he was
even quoted at another time saying he was considering going and
conducting some tests himself, but he's glad he didn't because
the whole thing seems like a real debacle, and you know,
didn't want to fly halfway around the world to be
(50:16):
part of this kind of total ship show.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Now.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
I know that as of twenty eighteen, professors were still
fighting over a three D image that was constructed of
someone who was presented as Neffer TD, a thirty four
hundred year old mummy that was identified as the younger lady.
But that was discovered back in eighteen ninety eight and
(50:41):
then TV producers got a hold of it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
So oh boy, yeah, so I had drama trusted well.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Point being is this is still a hotly contested issue,
and I think the backstory of this whole Neffer td
Akanatan situation is really interesting and kind of points to
how history can kind kind of obscure the truth, you know,
based on ideological disagreements.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
And although you didn't hear it through the magic of editing,
we just had a break off air ourselves and we
hope that you are enjoying this episode. Because time got
a little bit ahead of us. We have more famous tombs,
but we are going to have to save those for
(51:27):
another day the second part of what has become a
two part episode. We will rejoin you next time as
we stay in Egypt and travel further throughout the ancient
and not so ancient world. In the meantime, we have
to ask, while you're waging on part two, what benefits
do you see these searches having for modern civilization? You know,
(51:50):
some people, oddly enough, I don't know about you, guys,
but this surprised me. Some people have argued, in a
very utilitarian way, we should just let the past die
and focus on the future. Why spend hundreds of thousands
or millions of dollars finding these long gone, long neglected
tombs when there are people starving, you know what I mean,
in the Middle World? Should we spend that money saving
(52:11):
the people who are alive instead of finding the venerated
corpses of people who have died.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Or you know, spend it on sending us all the mars.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
There we go, There we go, in case Elon is
tuning in, And secondly, do you think it's possible that
someone alive today might know the location of one of
these graves or some of these remains? And if so,
why would they continue to keep it a secret?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah? And have you ever come across bones that are
purportedly from Thomas Paine? We want to know about it.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Tell us about your buttons.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Don't send it to twenty three and meters I guess,
but you know, maybe send it to one of the
other ones. You think ancestry is clean so far.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think it's an inevitable situation.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Well send it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
I also don't think it's necessarily bad. I mean, what
do you guys think?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
This is valuable stuff? And we have episodes about that.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
You can find them all on our website stuff they
don't want you to know, dot Com or wherever you
find your favorite podcast, and you can send us the
answers to those questions via. I mean, we're all over
the social needs right, We're on Instagram, Facebook.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Twitter, socialba ds, social needs.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yes, social needs als and I pas yes.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
As you said, conspiracy stuff on most conspiracy stuff show
on Instagram. Uh, if you want to maybe, well, there's
all those ways you can get a hold of us.
Check out here's where it gets crazy. That's our fait
one of our Facebook pages. It's our I guess more
of our member group that you have to join. The
only thing you have to know to get in is
our names. And it is so surprising how many people
(53:46):
get it so wrong when trying to join that page.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
I don't know about you, Matt, but I really enjoy
the thing is. Look, the question is, can you name
the host of the show?
Speaker 2 (53:57):
You know?
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, then Matt Nole, super producer, Paul or Casey. Thanks
for coming, by the way, Casey. We also just for
peak behind the curtain. If we think the answer is
funny enough, if we actually laugh, we'll be like, ah
go come on let them in.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
If we can tell it's an inside joke or something,
they were like, okay, they know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
What are some of the weird nicknames you guys saw?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Mostly what I see is just strange pronunciations or writings
of Nole's name, just really interesting.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
N O A L n O L E and you
U L.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
I think I like that.
Speaker 4 (54:36):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
There was also k n O W L.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's one of my favorite things I think.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
And so you can join the conversation with us, most
importantly with your fellow listeners and we we we drop
by there too.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah oh yeah. And if you don't want to do that,
and that's the end of this classic episode. If you
have any thought or questions about this episode, you can
get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
One of the best is to give us a call.
Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
don't want to do that, you can send us a
(55:14):
good old fashioned email.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning to you with a
classic episode. This is the first of a two part
series Famous Lost Tombs.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Do you guys remember this one?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (00:11):
Yes, I could we forget the famous lost tomb of Djengis.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Khan and those other guys.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And those several other people, so many that this is
a two part episode. I think we're all a little
fuzzy on the exact details here, so we'll be exploring
it along with you. I can't wait to hear what
you think.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Nolan.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We are joined with our returning guest super producer, Casey
the Khan pegro Kh a n Yes, very important. Also,
most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes
this stuff they don't want you to know. Today's episode
is a bit of a rabbit hole for us. I
(01:21):
mean every episode's a bit of a rabbit hole for
everyone involved. But we have a little bit of backstory
here in a previous episode of this show, we explored
this strange, ongoing and likely doomed quest to find the
grave of Jengis Khan, and we also discovered that as
the correct pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yes, Genghis Khan is now Jengis Khan, like like Djenga,
like the game No No, No, that's Carl Tart.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
And along the way, we learned that not only is
it's nearly impossible for anyone to find the cons actual
resting place, not only is it maybe possible that people
know where it is and will never share that information,
but we learned a lesson that Matt, you and I
learned years and years ago when we looked at lost civilizations,
(02:16):
and that is that this species on the whole is
just terrible at holding on to or remembering anything. We've
lost the location of tons of other immensely important historical figures.
And sure, sometimes that's through honest, boneheaded mistakes, moments of
instability and confusion as empires rise and fall, and in
(02:40):
some other cases it's on purpose, it's through purposeful obscucation.
But before we explore all the famous, incredibly crucial historical
figures who have disappeared from the modern day, we have to.
We have to admit that there's some deceptive number play
(03:02):
at work here. When you think about it, folks, most
people's tombs are lost. Over ninety percent of people's tombs
are lost in the big picture. But what do we
mean when we say that here are the facts.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, it's a combination of quite a few different factors.
But overall there are two really important things that really
are stick in the craw of your Laura Crofts of
the world.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
First, tombs were expensive, and honestly that's not any different today.
If you want like a fancy burial or some kind
of mausoleum or a plot. You know, land is scarce,
lots of people die. You know, it's quite an expense
unless you just want to let go the cheap route.
And even then you got to pay for a damn arn.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, funerals are a racket in this I can't recall
whether we've done an episode on this yet, but funerals
are very much a racket, at least in the West.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
And you know, if your family is in the funereal business,
I know there's the whole notion that it is a comfort,
it is a service you are providing. That's one way
to look at it, but there is absolutely money to
be made, and people are often kind of swindled into
overpaying four things in memory of their loved one or
as some kind of tribute to them when I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's it's the old Brenees thing that we talked about
in episode one. Guys create the need, well, yeah, create
the need and then don't be swayed. As the consumer
or the person going through some kind of traumatic emotional thing,
you can't be swayed by those pleas to your emotion.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So a point being this remains true today, but throughout
the course of history, the vast majority of people were
buried in much more modest structures, or in some cases
the body was just burned. That was back when you
could burn your own loved ones. Now you can't do
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I mean you can't get hot. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair, man.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Geez, that smell really gives it away.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Or there were things like sky burial, you know what
I mean, where the funereal process becomes more important than
the physical resting site.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Isn't that kind of coming back. Isn't there such a
thing as like green burials or modern sky burials.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I don't know about modern sky burials, but green burials
are definitely huge. And in our home state of Georgia
here in the US, there is a nearby Catholic monastery
that practice that's one of the only two places I
believe in the United States that practices green burial. And
that's a good observation to know, because with green burial,
(05:27):
the idea is that ultimately everything involved in the burial,
from the box, to the wrappings around the corpse, to
the corpse itself will just become part of the.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Soil, leave no trace, no gravesite left behind.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
And that's how many many people ended their lives, right.
They were maybe in some cultures, thrown into the sea,
were in some unfortunate places.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
People just rotted where they fell, that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And as we said a minute ago, there's also the
issue of scarcity of burial sites because there are just
so many people.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
There are so many people, especially if we look over
the long term. All right, let's do something very cheerful
and dive into some of the death statistics, the statistics
of morbidity or fatalities. We were able to find, in
a very rough way, the number of people who have
(06:27):
died ever, Like, not from nineteen fifty on, not from
seventeen seventy, whatever on.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But it's up until twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's up until twenty fifteen. But I messed with the
math a little, oh okay, got it to twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Oh awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So, according to the Population Research Bureau, modern Homo sapiens,
meaning people who were more or less like all of
us listening now, are this hot, new fangled Homo sapien
stick to the earth about fifty thousand years ago, and
(07:02):
since then, more than one hundred and eight billion members
of our species have been born. That's a rough number
because again, we have virtually no demographic data for ninety
nine percent of the span of human existence. Forty nine
thousand years ago, people weren't like, hey, let's get the
tribe together and figure out everybody's average age, interest and
(07:26):
preference for you know, type of food, type of leisure.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, they weren't so much into analytics back then.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Surprisingly not these days.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
We can't get enough of them, correct, but we did.
We did find a pretty accurate number, right.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Man.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
If we do a little simple math, we can find
some astonishing things so let's take a fairly accurate number
of people living on the planet today. That's seven point
seven billion. Again very rough, because longtime listeners, if you
remember an Earth earlier episode, Matt, you actually pulled up
(08:03):
the world population clock and we looked at how many
people were born and died just in the forty five
minutes that we spent doing the episode.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I can't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere
around ten thousand that were added while we recorded the other.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. So welcome if you're listening.
So all we have to do is a little bit
of subtraction. Take that seven point seven billion away from
the one hundred and eight billion who have ever been born,
and we arrive at this.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Number around one hundred billion, three hundred million human beings
that have died on this.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Planet overall, just on the in the course of this
ugly brutal thing called human life on Earth. And so
with this in mind, we can we can easily see
that we don't know where all one hundred billion, three
hundred million graves are, right, and many, many, many many
(09:01):
of those people didn't get a grave at all, you know,
like you said, no many were probably burned or disposed
of according to the cultural values or moray's of the time.
And when we think about this, it means it's reasonable
to assume that many people got lost in the historical shuffle.
As we said, empires rise, they changed names, the rulers
(09:26):
change families, names of cities change. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople.
And that's nobody's business, but it's sort of everybody's, et cetera.
And not for nothing did Shelley write the poem Osymandias,
which is great?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Oh yeah, look on my works, ye mighty, and disperse
all of this sand, look at it.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yes, yeah, that's a poem that I hope is familiar
with a lot of people. It's quoted to great effect
in the Ballad of Buster Scrut recently debuting on Netflix.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Oh, in the Super Bummer episode right, Super Bummer vignette.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
But the guy does a great excerpt of it, he
really does. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I say this every time we bring up Ozzy Mandius.
It was my grandfather's favorite poem, and he would recite
it all the time because he was beautifully obsessed with
his own mortality, and he would just constantly talk about
Ozzy Mandias.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Were you ever like grandpa? You're kind of freaking me out.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, it was this, I don't know. It was a
really charming thing about him in a weird way.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Did he have a good voice for it?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh he did.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
My grandpa just drank and grunted.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, perhaps he was reciting something.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Too in his head was happening. He didn't share it
with me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So so we know that. Unfortunately, we're never going to
find the resting place of most people on the planet.
That's that's just the way things have shaken out for
us so far. But what about the people who were
a big deal? This is interesting what you're saying, Matt,
(11:03):
about your grandfather having this fascinating obsession with his own mortality.
Because virtually every culture in our history, in one way
or another, venerates the dead. Death is up there with
birth one of the huge inexplicable things.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Tons of people personally believe that they know or have
an inkling of what happens, right, and some people agree
and many people don't. But no one has come up
with something that everyone can get on board with, right,
So it's this mystery, and we do our best to
honor or remember our loved ones, or in some cases
(11:46):
and some gory cases, to vilify the people we despise.
And each year hundreds of millions of people make pilgrimages
to one resting place or another. It could be like
Jim Morrison's grave in Europe, right, it could be. It
could be a resting place of lenin you know.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Or yeah, And it's usually a famous or powerful person,
or a famously powerful person, yes.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yes, or a powerfully famous person. So it seems reasonable
then that, since since our species pays so much attention
to this, it seems reasonable to assume that we can
at least keep track of, if not everybody, the most
important people who ever lived.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Right, you'd think, of course, Nah, it turns out no, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
End of show, Well credits.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We'll tell you why this is the case after a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Not even counting the normal people like you and I,
like everybody who's ever.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Lived, the over one hundred billion normal people.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Right right, we have lost tons and tons and tons
of incredibly influential historical figures over the ages. We can
divvy it up into a couple of rough categories. Spoiler alert,
we do not have the wherewithal to go into every
single famous person who has disappeared or been hidden from history,
(13:24):
but we can touch on some interesting stories that are
not Jengis Khan. We've got stories of misplaced corpses, stories
of rumored burial sites, and these are old, old rumors too,
as we'll find. And then we also have stories of
people who were purposely buried in secret.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So let's get let's get it started with all. Alexander
the Great, let's get it started in here. Yep, Alexander
the third of Macedon, Is that correct? Great?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Is that is a different way of saying Macedonia.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It became Messay's age Masadon. It was one of the
world's This this gentleman was one of the world's greatest
military minds. We've probably heard of him just from classes
way way back in the day. Maybe you're in one
right now listening to this. If so, shame on you
put your phone away.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Confused with our amazing cohort alex the Great.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, correct, But in this gentleman Alexander the Third's short life,
he established the largest empire the ancient world had ever
seen up to that point, and it lasted that way
for a while it was the Great Empire.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, it's so weird when you read about these people.
His his moniker is not ironic. He was Alexander the Great.
It was not like a little John name. And I
think about conquerors like this every time I do something
really dumb, like this guy was died in his thirties,
took over most of the known world at the time,
(14:52):
and two weeks ago I fell asleep trying to put
on a pair of pants.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know what I mean. It makes you think, it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Really really does.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I just recently learned, you know how much I love
acronym's goat Greatest of all time. Yeah, so he could
have been alex He's the original goat. Alexander the Goat.
That's what I'm gonna call him.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
This is it, This is it. Well, here's the thing.
Alexander the Great was just a regular old guy doing
all this conquering with his giant armies, you know, his
numerous giant armies that roamed the planet.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Died feeling like a failure. Yeah, even though he did
name a city after himself.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Just goes to show, just goes to show. We all
have imposter syndrome. All of us. No matter what you know,
no matter how much you achieve, how much you conquer,
it's never enough unless you get right with yourself and
love yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And so far everybody has died no matter what they do.
It turns out life is a terminal condition.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Except for that one guy. You remember that's a different
years ago or so. You remember we're talking about spatist
one guy. I can't remember his name, all right, So
oh and Henrietta lax Ah, there you go. Immortality via
cancer cells. Okay, So here's here's one of the big things.
(16:09):
It's not exactly known, or at least as debated, how
he died, but it is known when he died.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
M Yeah, yeah, three twenty three BCE and Babylon. But
but you're raising an interesting point, Matt. We don't know
too much about how we died. Was it malaria, was
it poisoning? Was it West Nile virus. There's a somewhat idealized,
romanticized account that says he died of heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Oh my gosh, that's not a thing.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
People have died of heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
They need to suck it up, and you know, start
going to the gym.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You know, you've got all this advice for these ancient people, they.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Really do in this time, in this time in human civilization,
just surviving was like being at the gym all the time.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
That's what I'm saying, though, Like, you know, with everything
that was getting thrown at you, how are you gonna
die of a broken heart? That just sounds like giving
up to me.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
That's surprisingly cold.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Man.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Hey, listen, I've been through the ringer this year, okay,
last year.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, okay, I see, I see what You're.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Come out the other side though, hear knew me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
What's that quote, be kind for everyone is facing I'll
do it again, be kind for everyone is facing a
great battle. It's one of Chuck Bryant's favorite quotes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Actually, that's a good point.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It's also one of those things about being It's like
you could rephrase that to be nice to the person
everyone you meet, because they could be dealing with something
that you do not know.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
About, yeah, or you know the golden rule, Just treat
them like you want to be treated.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah. So what happens?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So okay, So there's this idea debatable probably not true,
that he died of good old fashioned grief over the
death of his best friend ifestion.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I don't know. I heard via the internet that the
h is silent, but I know Hefestianfestian expert.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So what happens though, like I, regardless of how he dies,
he dies around three twenty b CE.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So what happens after that, Well.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I mean his corpse. He's the guy that conquered most
of the world, at least in the known world, as
we said, and his body is going to be venerated
in some way in probably some you know, grandiose fashion.
That's just what's going to happen. No matter what. His
body's going to be an artifact for what comes after
(18:36):
him now that the leader is dead, because there's going
to be a power struggle, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because in this case, his body becomes
a symbol. In some ways, possessing his body gives an
implicit endorsement of your right to rule.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Almost like oh that is so strange treat it almost
has an air in a way, or being an heir
to it because you have it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, yeah, possession being nine tenths of the law, and
so on.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So first his body's mummified and for two years it
lay in state in a golden sarcophagus, and eventually the
people were fighting about where he should be placed, where
he should be buried, make a decision, and they decide
to bury him in Greece, in the first capital of
the Macedonian kings, whoa in.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
A place called Egay. And I again the Internet says
I should pronounce it that way. It's spelled ae Gae.
We're just going with it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But the plan goes arise, isn't that correct? Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah? According to ancient sources, his his hearse that was
actually you know, his body was traveling in was hijacked
of all things near Damascus, and his corpse was taken
to Egypt, and it was first I guess it was
first taken to Memphis in Egypt, not the home of
the other king.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Right away before Elvis.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And then from there things start to get fuzzy. Sometime
between two ninety eight and two eighty three BCE, his
body is taken to Alexandria, the city we mentioned earlier
that he founded and named after himself, and then from
there he gets disinterred and put in at least two
(20:30):
other places, the most famous being a mausolem called the Soma.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
The Soma which I believe is a isn't that an
herb that kind of makes you sleepy? And I think
there's a antipsychotic medication called Soma, or at least it's
some kind of Valium esque type drug.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's a drug in Brave New World by Aldus Huxley.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe it's not even real.
I wonder if the real drug was named after the
drug in Huxley, Because there really is a drug called Soma.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I think the real drug is a muscle relaxer. I
think you want to say, I've been prescribed it before
but didn't take it. It's also it's also a wonderful,
wonderful I like. I like using this word for this
horror game, like a psychological horror game.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
It's also a quite good Smashing Pumpkins song from before
Billy Corgan lost his damn mind.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is a brand name of a real drug.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's Kara Sofra Doll. That's the one that is the
one to.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
All that aside drugs, Smashing Pumpkins, imaginary drugs. This is
where in this mausoleum, the Soma the looting began, as
is wont to happen with graves. It's basically like a
big old target in the ground saying hey, free stuff, Yeah,
if you want to get your hands dirty and possibly
(21:48):
your soul.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, and you know, Alexander found himself or his body
at least inside a giant golden sarcophagus. I believe we
mentioned very inconspicuous. Yeah, and what do you do when
you have a giant thing made out of gold? You
melt it down, of course you do. And that happened,
but it got replaced with like a glass sarcophagus, or
(22:11):
at least a glass container or some kind of crystalline container,
which is fascinating to me. I really would have liked
to have seen that.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, it's it's strange because you have to wonder did
they decide did they decide that gold, being you know,
a currency at times today, is decide that was just
asking for trouble to make another golden thing, and they decided, well,
glass is nice, and glass and crystal are expensive, but
no one will steal it to try to pay for things.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And also,
you know, whoever is running the show now, you need
a lot of gold and money to pay for all
the war that you're waging, right, because we're empire building
here people. Yeah, I mean it's not cheap.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's game on.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Even Cleopatra, who don't worry, shows up later in this story,
took gold from this tomb to pay for her war
against Octavian. There you go, and the things continued to
get worse, which is kind of the story of humanity.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Oh man, no question about it. In three sixty CE,
there were a series of unfortunate events that included warfare, rioting,
an earthquake, a tsunami. All of this threatened or possibly
even destroyed the tomb. By the time Saint John Chrysostom
visited in four hundred CE, the tomb was lost, and
(23:32):
ever since then no one has been able to find
the resting place of one of history's greatest conquerors.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And Alexander the Great rip is just out there somewhere.
His remains exist because it takes a long time for
bones in the human body to break down.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yep, it's there, So traces of him may well be
somewhere in some form, right, but he is now Also,
it's fair to call him Alexander the Lost. Searches continue
for his remains or his tomb to date, but no
one has found it. One thing we can say, and
(24:11):
I don't want to sound too cynical about this, is
that this this makes a lot of careers. The search
for these sorts of lost sites can literally change the
course of human history. And so as we're speaking, if
you're an archaeologist or a budding archaeologist researching this or
(24:35):
something like this, we want to hear from you. Let
us know what your search, your particular search is, and
let us know what you think your fellow listeners would
be surprised to learn about it. In the meantime, let's
fast forward.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I just right here before we get into it. I
watched a movie with my wife last night, and I
couldn't tell you the name of it right now. It
just showed up on one of the streaming sites and
she had wanted to see it. It's all about this
woman who goes back to college with her daughter to
become an archaeologist, and I just happened. I had no
idea that that was the plot.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Is it a heartwarming rom com it?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I guess it's kind of bad, but.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It is a psychological thriller. No.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I couldn't even tell you who's in it or what
it was.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
It was.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Not bird Bucks. Oh, I can't believe. I can't even
think of it right now.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Is it police Academy for that's what it was?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Okay, anyway, it just happened to have an archaeologist archaeology
B plot line that may be very happy nice.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's fascinating. I have a subscription to Archaeology Magazine. Well, okay, look,
I mind it for possible episodes in the future. I'm
just gonna be honest.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I inexplicably have a subscription to Maxim. It just started coming.
I can't get it to stop.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I think that's something that happens in the magazine industry
that I'd love to look into, because I had a
former girlfriend who inexplicably began receiving a subscribe to Moohair magazine,
and Moohair Magazine is a lifestyle fashion interest thing for
(26:09):
the Latino population in the US North America, I guess.
And we couldn't get them to stop sending it. Like
I emailed them. I sent an actual letter and they
still kept sending Moohair.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
As far as I know, you know, the my ex
and I are on good terms, so I could probably
write to her and ask her she might still be
getting mouhair like they locked it down.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
There was no way out there.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
It's like she's moved three times, still follows her wherever
she goes.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, we have that with Rolling Stone. Somehow my wife
still gets Rolling Stone sent to our house. We have
not paid for that. I don't even know how long
we should look into this. This is actually I think
we might have just uncovered a new conspiracy. Is it
worth sending us these magazines for the advertising that we
are potentially looking at.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
That just just to just claim circulation, right, just to
boost That's fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I love magazines.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I canceled a lot of subscriptions because we receive them
here at work and I read a ton of them.
But uh but anyway, yeah, but anyway that that may
well be a future episode. Tell us about the magazine
subscriptions that you are non consensually receiving, please, and and
we'll hatch this conspiracy with you if you need it.
(27:23):
It's a bit unethical, but if you have a subscription
that you want people to think you are non consensually receiving,
right to us, and we will totally pretend that you
are non consentually receiving it beautiful? Someone's like, no, I
hate a Horseback monthly.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So it's there's so many weird magazines. Yeah, gosh, okay, yeah,
we're going to do an episode on that.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Let's let's let's definitely do that. And let's also jump
forward to a really cool figure in history, mister Thomas Paine.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, let's bring the pain, Matt. What's what's the gist
about this guy?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, he's an He's an Englishman, an England born political philosopher.
He's a writer. You certainly have heard about him. He
supported the revolutionary causes in both America and in Europe.
He's perhaps best known for the old seventeen seventy six
essay Common Sense, along with other works such as The
American Crisis, Rights of Man and the Age of Reason,
(28:22):
which is a really great read actually, and I didn't
expect it to be when I cracked that thing open.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, it's very readable.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
It's strange because I think we sometimes have a stereotype
about things written in English in that period of time,
where they're going to be dry, and every sentence is
going to be three paragraphs long.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yes, and you're not going to understand most of it.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Largely responsible for the philosophy behind enlightenment thinking and also
our monument buddies, the Georgia guidestones.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Pain in flies on those guys huge.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
They were huge and up pain that is a weird
mixed accent. And again, my grandfather. The reason why I
read it is because my grandfather, old Papa, brought it,
brought it to my attention.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It's a it's a good read, you know, And I
know I know these the idea. There are certain trigger
words people here that make them not want to read things.
One of those is essay ye. The other is you know,
I think reason or rights. But he was writing to
communicate with the common people, you know what I mean.
He wasn't trying to do fancy acts of rhetorical gymnastics
(29:30):
or acrobatics. But eventually, despite all the great things that
he did, he also spoiler alert died.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Oh man, I was hoping it was going to go
the other way.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
He's outside of the studio right now, Matt waiting to
talk to him.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I only wish.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
About his multi level marketing scheme.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Oh god, it's kind of a good news bad news
es Central oils again Pain. So he died on June eighth,
eighteen nine, in New York City, and today he is
the only founding father that does not have an official
gravesite that you can go and visit. There Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm so surprised.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Why, let's talk about what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Let's so, he was first buried in New Rochelle, New York,
on his farm after the Quakers refused him, in a
town that was very, very hostile towards this man.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, because he criticized the Quakers during his lifetime for
their pacifism and for some of their other political beliefs.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
And in eighteen nineteen, a pain admirer named William Cobbett,
himself a Democrat, a Democratic advocate rather from England, saw
the disrespect that Paine received where he was buried and
decided to dig him up. Took it upon himself to
dig the man up. Just grabbed a shovel, just grabbed
a shovel, heartwise, the heart ones, that's true, and to
(30:57):
take him to England where he would be treated with
more respect. And he wanted to help spur the movement
for democracy there. So I guess he saw this as
sort of a symbolic act.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, again, using a dead body for almost for definitely
a political reason, and.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Did it work.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Not really, There's still a monarchy in that area of
the world. There's a parliament, sure, yeah, a House of
lords and a House of Commons.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That should tell you what you need to know.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Well, here in the States we basically just have two
houses of lords. So at least I don't I don't know.
Isn't that kind of the same thing. The representative represented
the people, which would be the commons, and then the
senators are more like the lords.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Interesting, the senators on paper are also supposed to represent
the people.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
That's fair, haha.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Psych So, over the years, Pain's body was divided, it
was split, the bones were circulated across the planet. People
were making relics of his remains, and now we have
(32:02):
we don't know where the bones are. We don't know
where pieces of this guy's body are. There's a Thomas
Pain foundation that has some of his hair and a
bit of his brain. They admit to owning that, but
there were unverified rumors that some of Thomas Pain's bones
were cut into get this guy's buttons and sold to
finance the revolution nice, But thing is kind of like
(32:24):
in the Middle Ages when people would unscrupulously sell, you know,
slivers of the Jesus the cross on which Jesus Christ
was crucified. There are enough slivers of that stuff to
make a forest essentially.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Or it's like those Passion of the Christ necklaces.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Oh yeah, or any and all holy water ever.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Well, holy water, you can you could just make holy water.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Was it you we were having I was having this
conversation with somebody about hunting vampires. In vampire films, there's
almost always a priest, right, yeah, And the priest has
the ability to bless water, making it holy and therefore
dangerous for vampires. Why don't they just like bless a
(33:10):
water treatment system or like a storm or something just
a well, yeah, how does it work to start getting buckets?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Well?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Anyway, there, there you go, vampire producers, check out our show.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And now that now that the Universal Life Church of
California exists, literally all of us have a massive defense
of it against vampires because we can just get ordained
with in a few minutes.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Isn't that where your ordination is from?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, and me as well exactly, it's the only
one that is not ordained. Yes, we've talked about this.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
Let's get on this train, but I guess I got
to get on the ordained train.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Casey is ordained. Look at him, he's in he's in
three or four different sects that he's a minister for.
And I think a priest, a priestess, and what was
the other thing.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
A shaman?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
A mage? He's a mage. What are you making this up?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yes, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Back to this idea of counterfeiting relics very common in
ancient days and surprisingly common still in the eighteen hundreds.
There were more buttons that were purportedly Thomas Paine's bones
that were sold than could have come from ten bodies.
You could build a jam band off the amount of
(34:25):
buttons sold, well, the skeletons of a jam band.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, I want It makes you wonder who else was
in that jam band that ended up as a Thomas
pain button.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes. These were also the days of resurrection, then, weren't they.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Do you think that any of those are still around
and they're confirmed to be pain buttons around?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yes? Confirmed?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
No, because how could you, well you could there are
some forms of testing could you to verify it, because
there are rumors of a leg bone hanging in a
wall of a tavern in England, and then there are
other place that would be Thomas Pain rights large enough
sample where you could try to do some investigatory thing.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
You could probably at least narrow down the timeframe and
the region.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Is that kind of what you're saying, right, You could
do some analyses that would indicate that there are also
some pieces that were claimed in Europe. It's possible that
the skull has been located in Wales and then later
moved to Australia, but to the point no testing has
confirmed this, and today it seems that Pain's remains are
(35:27):
largely scattered amidst various grizzly collections and some unscrupulous private collectors.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
There are more of these people than you think. My friends.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Likely have pieces of Thomas Pain held in a secret
collection today, sort of the way that a particular secret
society here in the United States collects skulls that is wow,
creatively named the Skull and Bones.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
By the way, that's who we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, that's true. Just sitting there, do you think maybe
they have it?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I don't know, but you know what, honestly, I would
not be that surprised if they had.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A piece of it.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
It would make so much sense. Oh yeah, that's Yale.
Oh dude, they totally have something in there. Hey. By
the way, twenty three and Me, if you're listening, just
whoever you.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Are, you are, I saw this news.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Just go ahead and just get on there and just
start just testing them bones especially, go to the skull
and bones first.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Oh then, I thought you were talking about the twenty
three a Me news that just came out now here
about what is?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I super producers, could we get a breaking news sound cue?
So twenty three and Me has teamed up with a
drug manufacturer, pharmaceutical giant named.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Glaxo like Smith Klein.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Uh huh, Glaxo Smith Clin.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
They're giving the they're giving away the DNA test results
of the five million something customers of twenty three and Me.
What Glaxos Smith Clein will use this data to create
research and create new drugs.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
What called it called? It said it was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh my god, I gotta tell Jason, our executive producer,
because he totally just did that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Well, go ahead and preemptively thank him for possibly contributing
to important medical research.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
There you go, there you go against his will. Well,
I mean, yeah, he clicked the terms of service. You know,
once you do that, it's like you don't know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
That told us, They told us in their offices they
wouldn't do this.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
So should we take a little break before we get
to rumored burial places?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Sounds good. Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
And we are back, as Matt would say, with no delay.
He said it once and I was taken by it.
I don't know what it means, but I like it
very much.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, you can hear. This is a very dry track.
There aren't a lot of effects on it. Definitely no delay.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Also, it means that we're getting right to it. Rumored
burial places number one with a bullet on the list.
The Queen Nephrititi of ancient Egypt. She was a queen
of Egypt, the wife of the pharaoh Akanatan, who ruled
in the mid fourteenth century BCE. So before Nefertiti and Akanatan,
Egypt had been a polytheistic civilization worshiping an entire pantheon
(38:31):
of anthropomorphic animal deities, ranging from the crocodile god Sobek,
who was depicted often as a man with the head
of a crocodile, a staff in one hand and an
ank that Egyptian symboled a little loop with the cross
through it in the other, and with a weirdly a
giant golden temple acting as some sort of larger than
life crown sitting atop his scaly head. And then you
(38:54):
had like God's like Anubis, who has depicted the god
of the Dead, who has depicted very much the same
way as Sobec, was only with the head of a
jackal and a last no golden temple headpiece.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah, I love I love the idea of all the
gods being a person with a different animal head. That
is really I actually really like that. But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Akan Natan and his queen thought. This whole worshiping multiple
animal headed gods was for the literal birds, not not
to be confused with the ibis headed god of wisdom Thoth,
which is so fun to say Thoth. It's just I
got a thch on the front end and a thch
on the back end.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, man, I love that. I really do. Like EBIs
or what is it, Thoth is the god. I've seen
that in so many different places. Anyway, the Pharaoh thought
it would be a good, a better idea at least
to stick with. Just let's call it one god. This
will be easier. We can all, you know, know that
there's one singular force that we can worship. Let's say,
(39:55):
let's say the Sun, that giant orange thing that just
shoots light at us all the time and it makes
us warm and happy. That's a good thing to worship.
Let's do that seems legit.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
It's important to note that the sun disc also known
as Attan, had already held a place in ancient Egyptian
religion and the state's way back to the Old Kingdom,
where it was worshiped as an aspect of the composite
god Raw A'mun Horus. And this is not to get
too into the weeds about it, but Raw represents the
(40:26):
daytime Sun I'mun, the son of the underworld Horus of course,
the rising Sun.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I love the idea of a composite god.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That is so cool to me. It's really common in
the ancient world.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah, yeah, but it's something we don't really think about everything.
Every god is kind of their own thing. Oh, although
it is kind of similar to the Trinity, like the Trinity, right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
The Monotheism. That's they didn't make that up out of
whole cloth.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Right, Monotheism being exactly where we're headed.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Right, So this is this is this is backstory that
we promise will deliver. So what what happens next? Because
you have to know this stuff about polytheism and monotheism, right.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Yes, Akannat and effort TD attempted with all their might
to obliterate all traces of we're gonna go Game of
Throne style and call them the old gods by defacing carvings, temples,
and hieroglyphics that depicted them.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
And you know, this didn't go over so well with
you know, the general public that had been worshiping these
gods for so long.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
That's right. And neither did it last particularly long, right, Bem.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
That's right, it did not. It did not.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It wasn't as unsuccessful as New Coke when that came out,
but it was still pretty No, it was actually way
worse than New coke.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Or crystal pepsi.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Because I believe that Akinnatin rained for seventeen years, and
this whole worshiping the Sun god business came in about
three or four years into his reign, So that's kind
of a blip in ancient Egyptian history.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Right, And the people who came after Aka Natan did
their best to erase him and Nefertiti herself from official history.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And this is important.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
So we don't talk about this as much as we
should in the modern day, but it is true that
the victors write the history textbooks you read, and they
are the ones who tell the stories of events in
the past.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And it is at least back.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Then, it was alarmingly easy to erase people from history,
and Stalin did it during his reign. These subsequent pharaohs
did it as well, and you can see why they
did it, whether or not you agree with them. It
is true that this could pose a clear and present
danger to their own legitimacy.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Yeah, absolutely, And Nefertiti went right along with this whole deal,
because she actually disappeared from the historical record before her
husband did, about twelve years into his so it's possible
that she might have died. There was a plague, as
we know, that swept through Egypt around this time. But
there are some Egyptologists who believe that she was actually
(43:09):
elevated to co regent and changed her name therefore kind
of slipped out of the historical record into a new role.
And then the name Nefertia disappeared, and she was named
something that sounded remarkably like Nefertiti. I can't remember exactly
what it was, but it was sort of a it
was almost like a permutation of the name Nefertiti. And
the thing is too, in a lot of the historical record,
(43:30):
or a lot of the depictions of she and her husband,
they were very much on the same level. She already
had a lot of power even before this possible elevation
to literal coregient like vice president or really I think
a co regent would be like fifty to fifty co ruler, right, oh, yeah,
so that's one possibility, But there's more. Many archaeologists believe
(43:53):
that she could have been buried in one of the
tombs of what's now called Amarna, which there's a new
capital city that Akanatan built during his reign.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Whoa, right, Yeah, these tombs were plundered after Akinnaton's death,
so it is possible that never Titi could have been
reburied in the Valley of Kings. The thing is, people
will tell you that, no matter how much animosity there
was for her and her husband, no pharaoh would normally
(44:28):
deny a former ruler the burial accorded to their station,
even somebody that everybody hated, like Acnon.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And here's something that we I don't think we've even
mentioned this yet. She had a very important steps on.
You may know himton Common Tuton Common, Yes, old king
Tut that we have discussed and before on this show
about the curse that existed for his tomb.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh yeah, and I think inbreeding was the curse of
his lifetime. Have you seen the forensic analysis. Also, I
like to think of him as the originator of the
phrase tut tut.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I'm a big fan, like I like the single tut
that you do.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Ben. You said, that's very tout.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yes, it is when something is very touch Yeah, when
something's touch well.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And the idea that she had such a famous and
powerful son in law that perhaps her body was actually
you know, put in his tomb somewhere.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
That's right. Not to mention the fact that he took
over after his father in law died, and he is
also the one that pretty much instantly started the process
of going back, taking Egypt back to the old polytheistic
ways and refurbishing all of those desecrated sites and monuments
and hieroglyphs and all of that business. But yes, you're
absolutely right this theory that Nephertiiti's body was possibly buried
(45:48):
in her son in law's tomb. There's one part of
it that is super interesting, is this idea that that
tomb may have actually been meant for Neffertiti in the
first place, but that Tutenkommon died unexpectedly quite young, the
boy king, right, because one piece of evidence behind this,
it's all it seems a little conjectury, but it's that
it was a much smaller tomb than some of the
(46:08):
other ones, and that if it was for a woman
they might have considered it diminutive less then, so they
might have made it smaller. But you could also argue
that it was for a boy, and that you could
say the same thing in that respect. But here's the thing.
This theory was put forth by an Egyptologist named Nicholas Reeve,
who's the director of the Amarna Royal Tombs Project. He
(46:28):
commissioned some radar scans of the site of Tuton Common's
tomb and they supposedly showed evidence of two secret chambers,
complete with masonry walls and quote, metallic and organic substances.
But there are other experts who aren't so sure that
this was definitive of what he wanted it to be.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Kind of yeah. And then of course, as soon as
a theory like that comes along, you've got somebody else
who comes along and says, well, I'm gonna do some scans,
and we're gonna or we're at least gonna relook at
the scans that we're done, see what we have here.
And according to this other group of scientists in this case,
it's Lawrence Conyers, who's at the University of Denver. He's
(47:11):
an anthropology professor. By the way, he's looking at these
scans and he's saying it, quote, it does not appear
that these GPR ground penetrating radar data have been processed
or that any of the so called anomalies are visible
in the raw data that are provided.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
This guy, by the way, I saw this in every
thing that cited this dude. He wrote the book on
ground penetrating Radar.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
There you go. It's gonna make a joke about penetrating
the ground via that old poet laureate of the West.
But we'll go back to Let's go back to the
quote he says, My suggestion to those who are collecting
it is that they release the raw data for some
peer review by other GPR people before they allow the
(47:53):
antiquities people to hold a press conference about all the
riches that might be in these supposed tombs. That peer
review would cut down all the speculation and critiques that
have been going on around the email for the last
few days, as there might be, as there might be
as many scientists who could reach a consensus in advance
of the speculation in the press.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
This was in twenty sixteen, By the way, I was
not able to find any more recent updates to this.
But in twenty sixteen Egypt's Antiquities ministry refused to follow
Kanyer's advice or acknowledge another series of scans that were
carried out by National Geographic Or with their assistance, saying
they would independently test the site. Instead, Reeve and his
(48:35):
co author were allowed to present their findings unchallenged within
the Egyptology community in Egypt. So I don't know. Ben,
we were talking about this off air. It seems like
the ministry here is protecting their like what tourism kind
of booned this could produce. I'm confused as to why
(48:56):
they would be so secretive or not allow other perspectives
in this in this discussion.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Could it be grant money coming in from NGOs or
some other.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Thing, or it could be grant money, It could be
a unsc thing, It could be it could be any
number of things. We do know that in some cases,
state organizations like this are incentivized or incentive, depending on
which word you prefer, to preserve a certain status quo.
(49:25):
It happens. It happens as well in Central America and Mexico,
where in some cases some countries don't want a lost
site to be found because then they are responsible for
restoring and maintaining it. It also could, and this is
somewhat depressing, it could just be a matter of corruption.
They may have just not greased the right palms yet,
(49:48):
but they did allow him to like they just didn't respond, right.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
Yeah, No, I mean they definitely did. It wasn't even
the father of GPR or whatever. He was just kind
of weighing in on this, and I think he was
even quoted at another time saying he was considering going and
conducting some tests himself, but he's glad he didn't because
the whole thing seems like a real debacle, and you know,
didn't want to fly halfway around the world to be
(50:16):
part of this kind of total ship show.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Now.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
I know that as of twenty eighteen, professors were still
fighting over a three D image that was constructed of
someone who was presented as Neffer TD, a thirty four
hundred year old mummy that was identified as the younger lady.
But that was discovered back in eighteen ninety eight and
(50:41):
then TV producers got a hold of it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
So oh boy, yeah, so I had drama trusted well.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Point being is this is still a hotly contested issue,
and I think the backstory of this whole Neffer td
Akanatan situation is really interesting and kind of points to
how history can kind kind of obscure the truth, you know,
based on ideological disagreements.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
And although you didn't hear it through the magic of editing,
we just had a break off air ourselves and we
hope that you are enjoying this episode. Because time got
a little bit ahead of us. We have more famous tombs,
but we are going to have to save those for
(51:27):
another day the second part of what has become a
two part episode. We will rejoin you next time as
we stay in Egypt and travel further throughout the ancient
and not so ancient world. In the meantime, we have
to ask, while you're waging on part two, what benefits
do you see these searches having for modern civilization? You know,
(51:50):
some people, oddly enough, I don't know about you, guys,
but this surprised me. Some people have argued, in a
very utilitarian way, we should just let the past die
and focus on the future. Why spend hundreds of thousands
or millions of dollars finding these long gone, long neglected
tombs when there are people starving, you know what I mean,
in the Middle World? Should we spend that money saving
(52:11):
the people who are alive instead of finding the venerated
corpses of people who have died.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Or you know, spend it on sending us all the mars.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
There we go, There we go, in case Elon is
tuning in, And secondly, do you think it's possible that
someone alive today might know the location of one of
these graves or some of these remains? And if so,
why would they continue to keep it a secret?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah? And have you ever come across bones that are
purportedly from Thomas Paine? We want to know about it.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Tell us about your buttons.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Don't send it to twenty three and meters I guess,
but you know, maybe send it to one of the
other ones. You think ancestry is clean so far.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think it's an inevitable situation.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Well send it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
I also don't think it's necessarily bad. I mean, what
do you guys think?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
This is valuable stuff? And we have episodes about that.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
You can find them all on our website stuff they
don't want you to know, dot Com or wherever you
find your favorite podcast, and you can send us the
answers to those questions via. I mean, we're all over
the social needs right, We're on Instagram, Facebook.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Twitter, socialba ds, social needs.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yes, social needs als and I pas yes.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
As you said, conspiracy stuff on most conspiracy stuff show
on Instagram. Uh, if you want to maybe, well, there's
all those ways you can get a hold of us.
Check out here's where it gets crazy. That's our fait
one of our Facebook pages. It's our I guess more
of our member group that you have to join. The
only thing you have to know to get in is
our names. And it is so surprising how many people
(53:46):
get it so wrong when trying to join that page.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
I don't know about you, Matt, but I really enjoy
the thing is. Look, the question is, can you name
the host of the show?
Speaker 2 (53:57):
You know?
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, then Matt Nole, super producer, Paul or Casey. Thanks
for coming, by the way, Casey. We also just for
peak behind the curtain. If we think the answer is
funny enough, if we actually laugh, we'll be like, ah
go come on let them in.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
If we can tell it's an inside joke or something,
they were like, okay, they know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
What are some of the weird nicknames you guys saw?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Mostly what I see is just strange pronunciations or writings
of Nole's name, just really interesting.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
N O A L n O L E and you
U L.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
I think I like that.
Speaker 4 (54:36):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
There was also k n O W L.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's one of my favorite things I think.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
And so you can join the conversation with us, most
importantly with your fellow listeners and we we we drop
by there too.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah oh yeah. And if you don't want to do that,
and that's the end of this classic episode. If you
have any thought or questions about this episode, you can
get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
One of the best is to give us a call.
Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
don't want to do that, you can send us a
(55:14):
good old fashioned email.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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