December 27, 2024 • 38 mins
Why is the Western world's most famous birthday celebrated on a seemingly-arbitrary date? As Ben, Matt and Noel discover in the second chapter of this special two-part holiday series, the power structures of ancient empires experienced a progression of conspiracies, geopolitical subterfuge and good, old-fashioned numerical miscalculation in their quest to give the global public a specific birthday for Jesus Christ. (Spoiler: they all knew December 25th was not Jesus's actual birthday, and created a fiction that continues today.)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Name is Noel.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
They called me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly,
you are you are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Hold the phone, call
the Wise Man. This is part two in a special
two part series. And please, please please, if you haven't
(00:50):
listened to part one before you listen to the rest
of this, get thee to thy podcast platform of choice
and check out the first part of When was Jesus
Actually Born?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh? Yes, this episode all magi. That's all we're doing.
I'm just playing the wise men. Magi are They hold
a special place in my heart. I don't know about you, guys.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Great get it super big and the murr the gum Resin,
which was a huge, huge deal that it was sort
of the crypto of its day.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
M frankincense. It's the only reason I know that word.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
You don't know, Franken said he's a guy. It's his
street name.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I don't know much.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
This is part two, so uh, maybe maybe we can
talk a little bit though about this.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
The the idea of a natural bookend to a heroic journey.
One is born on a specific, perhaps auspicious date, and
then later, when you leave the mortal veil, you die
on that same day, just later in time. Kind of
like a good modern analogue would be Mark Twain in
(02:05):
Haley's comment.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh yes, absolutely, this idea of a predetermined amount of
time that this deity will visit with humanity, right, or
that this god will It sounds bad when I say it,
but when this God will grace humanity with its presence
to impart whatever wisdom, knowledge and miracles are you know,
(02:28):
needed for humanity at the time.
Speaker 6 (02:29):
A Ladda.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I know it feel it
feels weird, but it is.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I'm joking.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
It's it's it's of course, it's a It's a God.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Doesn't get much more grand and and all and self
important than.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That, right, Going back to theology versus chronology, it is
about the story, the the myth that that story becomes,
rather than exactly when it happened.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. That's he nailed it because we see
also the yeah, idea of predestination. That's a huge part
of it, right, not just faith, but fate, and this
spoils things too, or it makes things more complicated for
later researchers because honestly, it sounds like they're producers in
(03:17):
the mix. There are people talking about story structures, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Or it's like that three chord pop song that has
fifteen writers and twenty five producers on the credit.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah, yeah, very very much so. And that's not a dean.
We just think it's a fascinating comparison and it's not
too off the mark.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So just a too many cooks kind of situation, which
is why it's a little hard to always take everything
at face value.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Right right, because a lot of people who were perhaps
closer to those historical events actual facts, as our pal
Lauren would call them, they died and they couldn't stop
someone else from coming in with their own agenda or
acts to grind.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Council of nice and Ben.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You mentioned earlier awkward conversation with somebody about the King
James Bible being the only correct one quote unquote because
of its you know use of the English language. But
I mean we know that there were some liberties taken
in that translation that we're political. No, do we have
like a list of those or is it just kind
of lost to history?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Uh? We have. We have some guesses why King James
made up Bible. That's a great idea for ridiculous history. Uh,
we could, we could spoil some of it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Quick question about that, guys, have you done a Ridiculous
History episode specifically on the golden sickle, white cloth and mistletoe?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
No Ah, I know what you're talking about. We have not,
but we will if you come on air with you.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Please, Matt, this is your baby already. You did it,
You spoke it into existence. But why are you scared
of Matt? We do podcasts together.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
All the time.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I will do yeah, I will do that. Actually, the
golden sickle is the thing you gotta or at least
that if you're a druid and you got your robes on,
you climb up the oak tree, lop off the missiletoe.
But it can't touch the ground. It has to hit
the white cloth.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So it's like elf on the shelf kind of rules,
kind of like if you touch the elf on the shelf,
the magic goes away, similar because.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
The missletoe is the thing that is protecting the oak tree,
which is mighty and very kingly and actually a symbol
of a king. And then you can't you can't fell
the massive oak tree unless you've saved its protective missiletoe
in honor of the king that you're about to fell
and then make into burning stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
The emphasis being that there is a right way to
do things, Yeah, in favor of the gods and all
the orderly proceedings of the cosmos.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, and as much as Christianity would like to raise
itself up as being better or more evolved than some
of those pagan ritualistic who or ancient religions, there's just
as much ritual involved in Christianity as there were in
those other you know, belief systems.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Shout out transubstantiation, shout out the idea of the the
cauldron God and the vegetable God. Oh Man Fraser is
just so cool. The show and the author Doctor Folklore
thing Yeah, both both toss salad scram so working back
from the life of John the Baptist based on the
(06:34):
stuff mentioned in Luke and a few other few other
tidbits there. There are experts, there are theologians who believe
they've gotten closer to the actual answer. What is the
birthday of Jesus Christ. We're going to pause for a
word from our sponsors, and then we're going to get
into it. Folks. We'll see what you think.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And we're back, and we've discovered that it is. Wait,
he's a leo, right, Jesus was a leo. He's got leo.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Come on, I don't know, come on, I wonder what
the astrology of the day was. We got to find
the history of astrology. You know, a lot of good
ideas in this.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But no, no, it's not that though. But it's pretty close,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Uh. I You know, I'm glad you point that out, Ma,
because based on those calculations, which get spoiler cartoonishly complex
related to the birth of not Jesus but John the Baptist,
and where John the Baptist would have been when Jesus was,
you know, messing around and getting baptized and so on. Uh.
(07:41):
Some folks like Ian Paul that we mentioned earlier, speculate
the true birth of Jesus Christ was sometime in September
comma maybe comma asterisk. It's it's so weird because the
main thing we agree on we being modern civilization. All
(08:02):
the theologians, the vast majority of read up about this.
They may not agree on the actual birth date, but
they pretty much all agree the celebration of Christmas on
December twenty fifth is not determined by the historical facts.
It's the idea that counts.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's right, yeah, which has trickled down into gift giving
during Christmas.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
It's the thought that counts.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So just shut out Saturnalia.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
In a super snitchy elf that my son named Tyrone
for some reason.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
That's incredible. I think Ella Choice is my family ELF's name.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I always rejected the Elf on the shelf. It's beat
me here, triforce, it's Norwellian. I don't don't like how
it's normalized.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, I know, it's all and it all benefits one
company who sells these packages with the elf and the book,
and they created the lore, and it's just it is
kind of amazing though, that nobody before this product figured
out how to WEAPONI that same kind of big lie
about Santa Claus and create.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
A new thing, a new version of it.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
On that and it did though, right do you? No?
Speaker 6 (09:09):
It just occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Have you heard about the two new iterations. I just
learned about them a few hours ago. I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
No, I'm kind of a grinch Scrooge character. I'm not
read up on this.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Martha on the Mantle and Snoop on the stoop they're real.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
What about mensh on the bench?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I've heard about that one for Jewish families looking to
integrate a big lie around the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh gosh, so just the surveillance state is going to
keep doing merch spinoffs.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yes, watch how Snoop might see you.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
This is a true story. This has not I was
thinking of this for our strange news segment later. But
did you hear that air frars might be spying on you?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh? Yes, I did hear about that.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Yeah, it just came up a few that's the new ELFLA.
At least the air frar does something.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Else you're talking, of course about, maybe like Wi Fi
connected airfriers.
Speaker 6 (10:03):
Surely my dumb airfryer isn't spying on me. Can I
just say that?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Guys? I didn't make up mench on the bench. It
was apparently, as seen on shark tank.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Ah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't think you
were making it up. I'm not that cloud. You are
way more clear for that. You would have come up
with a better no offense to the bench.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Oh hey, and last thing, it might not just be
your air frier. We've mentioned this before on the show,
but it's the Wi Fi signal that now, through the
magic of AI, has been trained not yours necessarily, but
has been trained to be able to identify where people
are due to basically holes in the Wi Fi signal, yes,
(10:43):
human shaped holes, and then it can analyze how that
human shape hole is moving. So literally, if you want
something to be spying on you, it could just be
your Wi Fi signal.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Somebody's watching me, So okay. This leads us all to
the next big question. If everybody already kind of agrees
the official date is wrong for several compelling reasons, the
next question is how did we end up with December
twenty fifth. This is a great thing to ask. Depending
(11:17):
upon whom you approach with this question, you may be
told there is a conspiracy afoot. Britannica sums it up
pretty nicely. They point out the origins of Christmas and
its December date can be found in the ancient Greco
Roman world, because commemorations probably began again around second century.
(11:38):
They say there are three possible origins for the December date. First,
a guy named Sextus Julius Africanus. He looked back at
this is kind of what we're talking about, a little
off air. He looked back at the expected conception date
of Jesus Christ, and he said, that's March twenty fifth.
So count forward nine months and then Jesus is logically
(12:01):
bored on December twenty fifth. It sounds solid until we
realize that our buddy Sextus also said the entire world
was created on March twenty fifth. So I think you
was just putting a lot of stuff in the bucket
on that one.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That'd be cool, that'd be cool back, you know, when
there were absolutely no calendars or and time was arguably
different as the earth was forming from what I know.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You know, if you've ever edited a manuscript, you kind
of have to respect him, yeah, for just getting a
lot done in one day, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not to continue to poke holes in this, but you know,
babies aren't born exactly nine months after conception.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
No one tells sextus it's close.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
But anyway, it's just very.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
There's a lot of wiggle room, you know what I mean. Yeah,
sometimes not enough wiggle room exactly. So there's this other
belief that we talked about a little bit, the idea
that the date of the twenty fifth of December was
chosen to sort of gentrify religious celebration, to displace competing
(13:18):
spiritual belief systems like Mythris, Soul and Victis celebrations, or
push out other non Christian celebrations like a Roman festival Saturnalia,
which had you know, some traditions that might sound a
little familiar to Christmas enthusiasts. You give gifts, ye at
big parties with friends and families. We feaced like we're
(13:41):
at medieval times, which is very much not a thing
pack then.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well yeah, well yeah, and you know, in certain parts
of the world when you have Yule and things like that,
that end up getting put into the same festivals because
it's just I remember we did that video way in
the day talking about the origins of Christmas and just
how baffled I know, I was, at least at the
(14:06):
things we were finding about all of these celebrations and
where they really do come from, and how it is
in amalgamation of pretty much the world going through crisis.
These are celebrations of stuff is really bad and cold
and dark. Right now, let's do some things to get together.
(14:27):
Warm up a bit, celebrate, and eat a bunch of
food because we need to get food in our bellies.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Spring is on the way. Right from the darkness comes
to the light. Yeah, this is okay. We do know
a lot of the hubbub around December twenty fifth comes from,
weirdly enough, geopolitics, which were still the thing back then.
This is where we introduce our second or our third
(14:54):
technically Flavious of the story for accounting my gerbil. Flavious
was just way more common name back then. This is
a guy that we've talked about before. Flavius Valerius Constantinus,
also known as Constantine the First or in a burst
of humility and modesty, Constantine.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
The Great, not to be confused with Flava, Flavius Valarius, Constantaneous,
Constantine the First, or.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Flavius Flava.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Or walk a flack of Flavius.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Thanks for playing guys.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Also first of his name. Yeah, so we we also
those are all good, all right, thank you for playing fun.
We know that Constantine ruled over Rome from about three
oh six to three thirty seven. He is perhaps best
known for the purposes of this exploration as the first
(15:49):
Roman emperor to convert to Christianity, and because emperors are
super humble, he expected everybody else to do exactly what
he did.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It's like it's like, how, oh gosh, that dictator out
in the stands. I think it's Turkmenistan. He quit smoking
cigarettes and then banned cigarettes for the whole country, and
like whenever he made a decision, he put in a
law that said everybody else in that country had to
do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
It takes a type to ascend to that level of influence.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I guess. But it's like it's like if I, you know,
imagine we go back and forth on political corruption here
in the United States. But I will say this, the
US public would absolutely revolt if any given president, you know,
but like just a terrible vehicle, like a Honda Odyssey,
(16:45):
and they said from now on, everybody has to drive
a Honda Odyssey. It would be blood in the streets.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
I would just argue that in American politics.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
They just wouldn't come right out and say that was why.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
What was the last American president that would be like
caught outside on the White House lawns smoking a cigarette?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Barack Obama?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Obama, he was chief.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Aren't there photos of him?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I don't. I don't have that image in my head.
That's interesting, Okay.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I think the PR game was a little bit h well.
I think they deployed some PR to tamp down the
occasional coffin nail on the part of that administer.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Clinton smoke, no thinks, so he does say cheeseburgers and playing.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The cigars, cigars something.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
A very specific type of cigar.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Yeah, very specific.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Indeed, let's say he customized it. So all right, we'll
keep that it. So, part of this Christianization of the
Roman Empire included finding a official date for the birthday
of Jesus Christ. I'm trying to convince you friends, Romans
(17:56):
countrymen to follow my lead on this new idea. I
you know you have your own spiritual beliefs, but let
me convince you of this this school of thoughts bona fides.
So they need more of these celebrations, they need these
things that are official rules. The rollout doesn't go perfectly
(18:16):
because the eastern area of the Empire still says, we
think it's January sixth, and it took fifty years to
get them kind of on board, and they're still kind.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Of not so I guess it's time to get to
the conspiracy theory at play here that Constantine's administration was
hoping to put the kaibosh on some competing religions and
other year in celebrations. Hence the whole discussion around religious syncretism.
It happens all the time. You've got a new game
in town, the new king in town that's trying to
(18:49):
push forth a new way of doing things. Therefore, you
have to tamp down the competition by in some ways
co opting their pre existing traditions. And while this might
not have and overnight, generationally speaking, it does tend to work.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well. Who has time for yaalda if we need to
celebrate this new thing now and we're being told we
need to celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Yeah, And then to that point we see syncretism also
becomes its own enemy with the rise of heretical christian sects,
because still Christianity, especially in the early days, it can't
agree on what it is you know, and it can't
agree on the true nature of God, you know, the
three and one Spirit. It can't agree on when I
(19:36):
mean forget a specific date. These people are killing each
other over doctrinal stuff that would seem even smaller to
us today, the conspiracy of ham shrinking competing belief systems.
It's a great story, you know. Put on our producer hats.
It's just like EPs. We would love this story. It
ticks all the boxes we need for heroes and villain Notice, however,
(20:01):
we called it a conspiracy theory and not a conspiracy actual.
That's because the whole thing might be a convenient myth.
We did not know this going into it. But the
whole idea of this Constantinian conspiracy right to advance Christianity
over all other pre existing religions. It doesn't come from
(20:24):
hard evidence. It comes from people looking at timelines and
making educated guesses. And the closest thing to a smoking
gun is literal scribbling in margins of a book or
a manuscript by an unnamed anonymous Syrian monk sometime in
the twelfth century sore than more than a millennia after
(20:47):
the fact, people read about this and they just dug
the vibe. Whoever this guy was, he wasn't originally out
to make a hit piece. He was trying to figure
out why Western churches moved Christianity from January to December
and why Eastern churches didn't get with the program. And
he was like, hey, they moved it closer to the solstice.
(21:09):
That's weird. And then people who did not like Christianity
found out about this and they said, perfect, you know
what I mean. It's like if you already don't like,
you know, a specific creed or ethnicity, and you read
something that you think makes them sound bad and then
you repost it on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Dude, but I have to The winter solstice thing is
so interesting to me when it comes to the storytelling
that was happening, happening in like ancient Persia at the time.
About this concept, the very concept that evil forces, darkness
(21:52):
worth it's the strongest right around this time of year
when when you when you're at the winter solstice, when
the days are the shortest, when the night is the longest,
when it's very cold, that is when the evil forces
are at its strongest. So if you have a savior
figure that emerges right in that moment when it is,
(22:14):
you know, the darkest night of the soul for all
of humanity. Right, you have a savior figure arise in
that moment literally with a star, you know, in this
symbology and all that stuff. It is the type of
storytelling that could be. You could see it cutting through
cultural different cultural and religious beliefs.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
It takes the same boxes, right.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, I mean this is where we get to studies
of comparative religion. Again, George Fraser, The Golden Bough is nuts.
It was first published in eighteen ninety and it's talking
about a lot of the same things, and it still
holds up because Fraser was largely correct. We're fun at parties.
(23:00):
This is a great point that we're making here because
we see commonality of experience. Right, it doesn't matter what
you believe. Winter Solstice is still the longest night of
the year. Doesn't matter to whom you pray. It still
gets cold, yeah, at predictable times of the year and
(23:21):
warmer at other times.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Well, and it goes across every culture. You look at Stonehenge,
Machu Pichu, you all over the planet, there are monuments
built to both celebrate and venerate the solstices, right, and
that's there are slits within stone work that will only
send light into one part of a massive dome thing
(23:46):
that was built, you know, well before allegedly Jesus was
born that are celebrating that moment of the sunrise the
dawn on that day.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
So if you want, if you want your hero in
your story to be the most heroic and most auspicious,
then you push them or associate them with something that
people already understand as auspicious and important. That doesn't make
Now we're not denigrating any belief system. That doesn't make
(24:17):
it untrue. Right, And that's not us poo pooing or
anything that is pointing out how this sort of stuff
historically works, not just in the case of Christianity, but
in the case of pretty much every successful religious school
of thoughts. Successful being defined as something that a mimetic
(24:39):
evolution that propagates across generations.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Still, the conspiracy theory about Constantine saying, you know, screw Saturnalia,
I'm tired of this Mythris guy that probably came to
be way after his death. And we got to give
a shout out to a professor at Yale Andrew McGowan,
who totally agrees with this and makes a really compelling
(25:04):
case that this was anti Christian and anti Christmas propaganda
in the twelfth century. What we're saying is, that's right,
fellow conspiracy realist. It sounds silly when you hear it
on your news networks every year, but back in the day,
there really was a war on Christmas. There really was
war on Christmas. It's also strange because birthdays were not
(25:28):
as big of a deal back then. You know, if
you like think about it, you are an adherent of Christianity.
Jesus Christ is the Messiah. His birthday is great, good
that he's here, but the real emphasis is on when
he dies and rises again. Sure, that's what makes him
Jesus Christ. Definitely, it's definitely the more impressive trick. Everybody
(25:53):
has a birthday, not everybody has an Easter.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's true, exactly, but it's a lot like it's a
lot like the Sun, guys, the Sun. I'm just you know,
just saying absolutely, because I can't get over this. I did, wait,
I dove way too deep into the Midsummer Thing. I
think I watched that movie not that long ago, and
I was just thinking more and more about it about
ancient practices. But like New Grange, this tomb mound built
(26:19):
in Ireland, like thirty two hundred BC, is all about
the rising of the sun on that you know, right
around that time. Like I don't know exactly what the
date was, December, what what it would be calculated to
in thirty two hundred BC when it was built, but
it would be it would be right around that time
when the sun rises and defeats evil, right, defeats the cold,
(26:40):
the winter, all that stuff. Go back to karnak out
in lux or all these places, same thing four thousand
years ago. That story is just so potent.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
It makes me wonder what maritime life forms worship, right,
should they have the capacity for worship, which they probably do,
especially to take Do.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
You think it would be sun based or it would
be more based on current Maybe.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
I think it would be current. Yeah, I think it
would have to be current. Right, Let us know what
your local pods and citations worship, you know, because yeah,
the humans in the early days obviously they're gonna they're
they're gonna worship the sun and they're gonna fear the night, yes, right,
and then they'll worship the things they fear. Because you
(27:25):
worship what you adore, you also worship what you fear.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Just crazy, Yeah, you sacrifice stuff to it to be like,
please don't hurt.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Us ancestor worship animism. Yeah, those are cool, man, They're
still continued practices.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Did you guys see the trailer for The Witcher.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
For I did? I did? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Deals exactly with that concept of sacrificing to the bad thing.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Guys, sorry to do for five seconds. Speaking of trailers,
have you seen the trailer for the New twenty the
twenty eight years later, the Zion film. It has this
poem in it that is is like a like a
vintage recording of this poem called I think it's called.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Boots, Boots Boots. It's by rudyerd Kipling. But it doesn't
say that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It's just this insane, arresting spoken word that like just
kind of syncs up with the bill and the tension
of the music and the images and the trailer.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
I had to look it up and it's freaking wild.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I mean, I know, Ben, you're a big fan of
his poetry. Despite him, you know, we all know he's
got problematic figure.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I'm a big fan of some of his There you goes.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
So this one, man, it blew me away.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's just all about war, and it's like it has
this cadence to it. It's almost Death March kind of
cadence to it. Really powerful. If you look up on YouTube,
you can hear recording on its own, it's this very
like famous recording with somebody reading this poem.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, and it's also used. I think it'll be very
familiar with a lot of our marine conspiracy realist in
the crowd. Not maritime animals, but like actual marines, because yeah,
tell us what you think. We also know that eventually,
through this great game of heavenly and Earthly telephone, more
(29:06):
and more people began to accept the idea of December
twenty fifth as the date of the Messiah's birth, and
that created a feedback loop because the more people that
accept it, the more people that accept it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And now you're weird for not accepting it.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Right, not like having a cell phone used to be weird,
and now it's weird to not have one. So we
will never know the actual real birthday of Jesus, at
least not here on earth. But we can say conclusively,
probably wasn't what we call Christmas today, Probably was not
in December. This shouldn't be a bummer, though, because it's
(29:41):
the thought that matters more than a specific date and time.
Matthew and Luke were probably onto something with that that
was actually kind of smarter them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
But speaking of the thought that matters, or the thought
that counts, that is no excuse to give Amazon gift
cards for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, that's just lazy.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
What happened?
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Man?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I just I will die on this. Hell be thoughtful?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Okay? Does someone hurt your feelings?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I know, maybe irrelevant. It's just an opinion that I
wanted to express in this moment.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
And I assume that we apply to all gift cards.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I think gift cards are a little weak sauce that's awful,
even if.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's like a gift card to a specific thing.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Applebee's maybe as I yeah, as yeah, sure, absolutely that
would be a fun, thoughtful gift card because he really
loves Applebee's.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
But to give this just open ended, you figure it
out thing to somebody as.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
A gift, I would say, just don't don't, don't get
them anything.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
What do you think about hard currency.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yes, the gift of grandparents and absolutely acceptable from them
in a card with.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Handwritten okay, okay okay.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Or hands signs. I used to give my uh the
cards I would send people for like Hanukah or Christmas
or whatever they would they would usually I would usually
have somewhere in there dictated but not read. Here you go,
which yeah, I got I had. Uh. This has nothing
to do with anything. When you get Eagle Scout, you
(31:12):
used to get a lot of notable politicians and celebrities
and astronauts and stuff that would send you like a
congratulatory letter or they would send you a picture that
they had signed. And got one from Bob Hope with
this pretty nice letter was a super long it was
about a page and it ended with dictated but not
(31:35):
read and his secretary and I thought it was the
classiest thing. I figure he was. I just imagine the
guy strolling around the room. Well he just just extolling
these ideas. He's like put something in about uh America.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
He was mister a s O.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Like the big the big touring productions for the troops,
you know, the road shows and stuff.
Speaker 6 (32:03):
Wasn't that a big thing that Bob Hope was into
it makes it yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But this this also gives us
the idea of people spitballing, right the gospel dictated but
not red yea and read later. So this is where
we see calendars change. You know, this is another trip,
he thought, you guys, I know we're going along, but
calendars seem permanent, yet are somewhat changeable over time, you know,
(32:28):
like the what happens when humans continue to reach toward
the stars? Are we? I suggest the calendars will have
to evolve in step? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, Well, once all these aliens finally make themselves known
that are hanging out in New Jersey right now, I mean, yeah,
you stop it. I'm okay, I will.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Or the aliens land and they say, they say something like,
oh yeah, Jesus is absolutely real. We hang out with
him all the time. Yeah, like we see him all
the time, don't you guys? He was what did you
do to him? Hey? What happened?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
That's uh? That was Oh who did that? Somebody went
on stage and did that as a as their bit? Yes,
and it was it was so good. It was Oh
what the I just I just heard it recounted it
hold on I got at no.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Bob Hope, no Carpenter.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Sorry, I just uh, I've got a.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Can you describe the person?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It was Richard Pryor, And it was a retelling of
a time that Richard Pryor went on stage and he
embodied God, like God himself. He went out on stage
as God, and I was talking about his son and like,
I mean, my son is so awesome, just talking about
his son, and he's like, so, where have you seen him?
Like where is he? Wait? What? And then the audio
(34:00):
proceeds to explain to God what happened to Jesus?
Speaker 6 (34:03):
I see?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And then he does the same thing with Martin Luther King,
with Malcolm X, with JFK and all this stuff. It
was just and it was apparently really somber and sad
the entire time he's on set and they just left
and he's just like, all right, well, they basically just said, well,
this is I'm leaving. Yeah, this is the bottomy of
(34:26):
Now God is no longer with us.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Sorry, yeah, no, I feel you. Richard Pryor is one
of the great orators of Western society. I would often
people confused with the comedian, just like George Carling, but
I would say the alien thing would be interesting. They
we don't know if that's going to happen yet, but
we know the calendar will probably transform as humanity becomes
(34:49):
a multi terrestrial species, right, and well.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, what if it's based on the rather than the
Solar system, right solar? What if it's on the galaxy
itself at least for every time?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
That'd be cool. I miss the Zoom meeting, guys, I
thought this was in galactic time.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Crap, crap.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
I mean, it's a question for another day. But we
do have we do have an answer. You know, whether
you're Christian, whether you're non Christian, atheist, whatever your belief
system may be, you don't have to be Christian to
agree with the overall message of this guy. Just be
good to other people. Help when you can, how you
can when you can. You know, that's the real stuff
(35:34):
they don't want you to know. To shout out to
Frank Cross and Scrooge, no one ever needed a specific
day to be a good person. It can just be
a Tuesday and you can still do amazing noble things.
It's awesome to be kind in March September tomorrow, the
next week, the next day, it's just as crucial to
(35:57):
do that as it is on Christmas at least, that's
we think. So what do you think. We can't wait
to hear from you, folks, so we try to be
easy to find online. You can send us an email
if you want to get on our naughty list.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
Or our nice list.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
And you can also find this all over the internet
on your social media platforms a choice where we are
conspiracy stuff. On x FKA, Twitter, on YouTube where we
have video content glor for you to enjoy, as well
as on Facebook where we have our Facebook group.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Here's where it gets crazy. On Instagram and TikTok, we're
conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Show you better call us you naughty a little so
and so. Our number is one eight three three st
d WYTK. That story, by the way, about Richard Pryor
was told by Howie Mandel. That's if you want to
search it up Howi Mandel, Richard Pryor. God check that out.
When you call in. Give us a cool nickname for yourself.
(36:50):
Whatever it is, we don't care. We're excited to hear it.
You've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like. At some
point in the message, let us know if we can
use your name and message on the air. If you've
got more to say than can fit in a three
minute voicemail, why not instead send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive twenty four to seven as long as this
calendar continues. Spoiler. Getting on the Knotty list is a
very very cool thing, and we want to take a
second and thank everybody who wrote in with amazing stories
about the third Man factor, as well as dropping us
(37:25):
some phone calls. So many stories, we were betting this
one would speak to a lot of us in the audience.
We've received so many accounts that it may be time
for us to do a themed listener mail program on
these third Man stories in the meantime, If you'd like
to be part of that, or give us any of
(37:47):
your thoughts at all, hit us up out here in
the dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Name is Noel.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
They called me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly,
you are you are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Hold the phone, call
the Wise Man. This is part two in a special
two part series. And please, please please, if you haven't
(00:50):
listened to part one before you listen to the rest
of this, get thee to thy podcast platform of choice
and check out the first part of When was Jesus
Actually Born?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh? Yes, this episode all magi. That's all we're doing.
I'm just playing the wise men. Magi are They hold
a special place in my heart. I don't know about you, guys.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Great get it super big and the murr the gum Resin,
which was a huge, huge deal that it was sort
of the crypto of its day.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
M frankincense. It's the only reason I know that word.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
You don't know, Franken said he's a guy. It's his
street name.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I don't know much.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
This is part two, so uh, maybe maybe we can
talk a little bit though about this.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
The the idea of a natural bookend to a heroic journey.
One is born on a specific, perhaps auspicious date, and
then later, when you leave the mortal veil, you die
on that same day, just later in time. Kind of
like a good modern analogue would be Mark Twain in
(02:05):
Haley's comment.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh yes, absolutely, this idea of a predetermined amount of
time that this deity will visit with humanity, right, or
that this god will It sounds bad when I say it,
but when this God will grace humanity with its presence
to impart whatever wisdom, knowledge and miracles are you know,
(02:28):
needed for humanity at the time.
Speaker 6 (02:29):
A Ladda.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I know it feel it
feels weird, but it is.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I'm joking.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
It's it's it's of course, it's a It's a God.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Doesn't get much more grand and and all and self
important than.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That, right, Going back to theology versus chronology, it is
about the story, the the myth that that story becomes,
rather than exactly when it happened.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. That's he nailed it because we see
also the yeah, idea of predestination. That's a huge part
of it, right, not just faith, but fate, and this
spoils things too, or it makes things more complicated for
later researchers because honestly, it sounds like they're producers in
(03:17):
the mix. There are people talking about story structures, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Or it's like that three chord pop song that has
fifteen writers and twenty five producers on the credit.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah, yeah, very very much so. And that's not a dean.
We just think it's a fascinating comparison and it's not
too off the mark.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So just a too many cooks kind of situation, which
is why it's a little hard to always take everything
at face value.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Right right, because a lot of people who were perhaps
closer to those historical events actual facts, as our pal
Lauren would call them, they died and they couldn't stop
someone else from coming in with their own agenda or
acts to grind.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Council of nice and Ben.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You mentioned earlier awkward conversation with somebody about the King
James Bible being the only correct one quote unquote because
of its you know use of the English language. But
I mean we know that there were some liberties taken
in that translation that we're political. No, do we have
like a list of those or is it just kind
of lost to history?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Uh? We have. We have some guesses why King James
made up Bible. That's a great idea for ridiculous history. Uh,
we could, we could spoil some of it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Quick question about that, guys, have you done a Ridiculous
History episode specifically on the golden sickle, white cloth and mistletoe?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
No Ah, I know what you're talking about. We have not,
but we will if you come on air with you.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Please, Matt, this is your baby already. You did it,
You spoke it into existence. But why are you scared
of Matt? We do podcasts together.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
All the time.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I will do yeah, I will do that. Actually, the
golden sickle is the thing you gotta or at least
that if you're a druid and you got your robes on,
you climb up the oak tree, lop off the missiletoe.
But it can't touch the ground. It has to hit
the white cloth.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So it's like elf on the shelf kind of rules,
kind of like if you touch the elf on the shelf,
the magic goes away, similar because.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
The missletoe is the thing that is protecting the oak tree,
which is mighty and very kingly and actually a symbol
of a king. And then you can't you can't fell
the massive oak tree unless you've saved its protective missiletoe
in honor of the king that you're about to fell
and then make into burning stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
The emphasis being that there is a right way to
do things, Yeah, in favor of the gods and all
the orderly proceedings of the cosmos.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, and as much as Christianity would like to raise
itself up as being better or more evolved than some
of those pagan ritualistic who or ancient religions, there's just
as much ritual involved in Christianity as there were in
those other you know, belief systems.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Shout out transubstantiation, shout out the idea of the the
cauldron God and the vegetable God. Oh Man Fraser is
just so cool. The show and the author Doctor Folklore
thing Yeah, both both toss salad scram so working back
from the life of John the Baptist based on the
(06:34):
stuff mentioned in Luke and a few other few other
tidbits there. There are experts, there are theologians who believe
they've gotten closer to the actual answer. What is the
birthday of Jesus Christ. We're going to pause for a
word from our sponsors, and then we're going to get
into it. Folks. We'll see what you think.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And we're back, and we've discovered that it is. Wait,
he's a leo, right, Jesus was a leo. He's got leo.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Come on, I don't know, come on, I wonder what
the astrology of the day was. We got to find
the history of astrology. You know, a lot of good
ideas in this.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But no, no, it's not that though. But it's pretty close,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Uh. I You know, I'm glad you point that out, Ma,
because based on those calculations, which get spoiler cartoonishly complex
related to the birth of not Jesus but John the Baptist,
and where John the Baptist would have been when Jesus was,
you know, messing around and getting baptized and so on. Uh.
(07:41):
Some folks like Ian Paul that we mentioned earlier, speculate
the true birth of Jesus Christ was sometime in September
comma maybe comma asterisk. It's it's so weird because the
main thing we agree on we being modern civilization. All
(08:02):
the theologians, the vast majority of read up about this.
They may not agree on the actual birth date, but
they pretty much all agree the celebration of Christmas on
December twenty fifth is not determined by the historical facts.
It's the idea that counts.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's right, yeah, which has trickled down into gift giving
during Christmas.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
It's the thought that counts.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So just shut out Saturnalia.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
In a super snitchy elf that my son named Tyrone
for some reason.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
That's incredible. I think Ella Choice is my family ELF's name.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I always rejected the Elf on the shelf. It's beat
me here, triforce, it's Norwellian. I don't don't like how
it's normalized.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, I know, it's all and it all benefits one
company who sells these packages with the elf and the book,
and they created the lore, and it's just it is
kind of amazing though, that nobody before this product figured
out how to WEAPONI that same kind of big lie
about Santa Claus and create.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
A new thing, a new version of it.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
On that and it did though, right do you? No?
Speaker 6 (09:09):
It just occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Have you heard about the two new iterations. I just
learned about them a few hours ago. I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
No, I'm kind of a grinch Scrooge character. I'm not
read up on this.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Martha on the Mantle and Snoop on the stoop they're real.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
What about mensh on the bench?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I've heard about that one for Jewish families looking to
integrate a big lie around the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh gosh, so just the surveillance state is going to
keep doing merch spinoffs.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yes, watch how Snoop might see you.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
This is a true story. This has not I was
thinking of this for our strange news segment later. But
did you hear that air frars might be spying on you?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh? Yes, I did hear about that.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Yeah, it just came up a few that's the new ELFLA.
At least the air frar does something.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Else you're talking, of course about, maybe like Wi Fi
connected airfriers.
Speaker 6 (10:03):
Surely my dumb airfryer isn't spying on me. Can I
just say that?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Guys? I didn't make up mench on the bench. It
was apparently, as seen on shark tank.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Ah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't think you
were making it up. I'm not that cloud. You are
way more clear for that. You would have come up
with a better no offense to the bench.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Oh hey, and last thing, it might not just be
your air frier. We've mentioned this before on the show,
but it's the Wi Fi signal that now, through the
magic of AI, has been trained not yours necessarily, but
has been trained to be able to identify where people
are due to basically holes in the Wi Fi signal, yes,
(10:43):
human shaped holes, and then it can analyze how that
human shape hole is moving. So literally, if you want
something to be spying on you, it could just be
your Wi Fi signal.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Somebody's watching me, So okay. This leads us all to
the next big question. If everybody already kind of agrees
the official date is wrong for several compelling reasons, the
next question is how did we end up with December
twenty fifth. This is a great thing to ask. Depending
(11:17):
upon whom you approach with this question, you may be
told there is a conspiracy afoot. Britannica sums it up
pretty nicely. They point out the origins of Christmas and
its December date can be found in the ancient Greco
Roman world, because commemorations probably began again around second century.
(11:38):
They say there are three possible origins for the December date. First,
a guy named Sextus Julius Africanus. He looked back at
this is kind of what we're talking about, a little
off air. He looked back at the expected conception date
of Jesus Christ, and he said, that's March twenty fifth.
So count forward nine months and then Jesus is logically
(12:01):
bored on December twenty fifth. It sounds solid until we
realize that our buddy Sextus also said the entire world
was created on March twenty fifth. So I think you
was just putting a lot of stuff in the bucket
on that one.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That'd be cool, that'd be cool back, you know, when
there were absolutely no calendars or and time was arguably
different as the earth was forming from what I know.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You know, if you've ever edited a manuscript, you kind
of have to respect him, yeah, for just getting a
lot done in one day, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not to continue to poke holes in this, but you know,
babies aren't born exactly nine months after conception.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
No one tells sextus it's close.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
But anyway, it's just very.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
There's a lot of wiggle room, you know what I mean. Yeah,
sometimes not enough wiggle room exactly. So there's this other
belief that we talked about a little bit, the idea
that the date of the twenty fifth of December was
chosen to sort of gentrify religious celebration, to displace competing
(13:18):
spiritual belief systems like Mythris, Soul and Victis celebrations, or
push out other non Christian celebrations like a Roman festival Saturnalia,
which had you know, some traditions that might sound a
little familiar to Christmas enthusiasts. You give gifts, ye at
big parties with friends and families. We feaced like we're
(13:41):
at medieval times, which is very much not a thing
pack then.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well yeah, well yeah, and you know, in certain parts
of the world when you have Yule and things like that,
that end up getting put into the same festivals because
it's just I remember we did that video way in
the day talking about the origins of Christmas and just
how baffled I know, I was, at least at the
(14:06):
things we were finding about all of these celebrations and
where they really do come from, and how it is
in amalgamation of pretty much the world going through crisis.
These are celebrations of stuff is really bad and cold
and dark. Right now, let's do some things to get together.
(14:27):
Warm up a bit, celebrate, and eat a bunch of
food because we need to get food in our bellies.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Spring is on the way. Right from the darkness comes
to the light. Yeah, this is okay. We do know
a lot of the hubbub around December twenty fifth comes from,
weirdly enough, geopolitics, which were still the thing back then.
This is where we introduce our second or our third
(14:54):
technically Flavious of the story for accounting my gerbil. Flavious
was just way more common name back then. This is
a guy that we've talked about before. Flavius Valerius Constantinus,
also known as Constantine the First or in a burst
of humility and modesty, Constantine.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
The Great, not to be confused with Flava, Flavius Valarius, Constantaneous,
Constantine the First, or.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Flavius Flava.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Or walk a flack of Flavius.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Thanks for playing guys.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Also first of his name. Yeah, so we we also
those are all good, all right, thank you for playing fun.
We know that Constantine ruled over Rome from about three
oh six to three thirty seven. He is perhaps best
known for the purposes of this exploration as the first
(15:49):
Roman emperor to convert to Christianity, and because emperors are
super humble, he expected everybody else to do exactly what
he did.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It's like it's like, how, oh gosh, that dictator out
in the stands. I think it's Turkmenistan. He quit smoking
cigarettes and then banned cigarettes for the whole country, and
like whenever he made a decision, he put in a
law that said everybody else in that country had to
do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
It takes a type to ascend to that level of influence.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I guess. But it's like it's like if I, you know,
imagine we go back and forth on political corruption here
in the United States. But I will say this, the
US public would absolutely revolt if any given president, you know,
but like just a terrible vehicle, like a Honda Odyssey,
(16:45):
and they said from now on, everybody has to drive
a Honda Odyssey. It would be blood in the streets.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
I would just argue that in American politics.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
They just wouldn't come right out and say that was why.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
What was the last American president that would be like
caught outside on the White House lawns smoking a cigarette?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Barack Obama?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Obama, he was chief.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Aren't there photos of him?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I don't. I don't have that image in my head.
That's interesting, Okay.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I think the PR game was a little bit h well.
I think they deployed some PR to tamp down the
occasional coffin nail on the part of that administer.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Clinton smoke, no thinks, so he does say cheeseburgers and playing.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The cigars, cigars something.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
A very specific type of cigar.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Yeah, very specific.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Indeed, let's say he customized it. So all right, we'll
keep that it. So, part of this Christianization of the
Roman Empire included finding a official date for the birthday
of Jesus Christ. I'm trying to convince you friends, Romans
(17:56):
countrymen to follow my lead on this new idea. I
you know you have your own spiritual beliefs, but let
me convince you of this this school of thoughts bona fides.
So they need more of these celebrations, they need these
things that are official rules. The rollout doesn't go perfectly
(18:16):
because the eastern area of the Empire still says, we
think it's January sixth, and it took fifty years to
get them kind of on board, and they're still kind.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Of not so I guess it's time to get to
the conspiracy theory at play here that Constantine's administration was
hoping to put the kaibosh on some competing religions and
other year in celebrations. Hence the whole discussion around religious syncretism.
It happens all the time. You've got a new game
in town, the new king in town that's trying to
(18:49):
push forth a new way of doing things. Therefore, you
have to tamp down the competition by in some ways
co opting their pre existing traditions. And while this might
not have and overnight, generationally speaking, it does tend to work.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well. Who has time for yaalda if we need to
celebrate this new thing now and we're being told we
need to celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Yeah, And then to that point we see syncretism also
becomes its own enemy with the rise of heretical christian sects,
because still Christianity, especially in the early days, it can't
agree on what it is you know, and it can't
agree on the true nature of God, you know, the
three and one Spirit. It can't agree on when I
(19:36):
mean forget a specific date. These people are killing each
other over doctrinal stuff that would seem even smaller to
us today, the conspiracy of ham shrinking competing belief systems.
It's a great story, you know. Put on our producer hats.
It's just like EPs. We would love this story. It
ticks all the boxes we need for heroes and villain Notice, however,
(20:01):
we called it a conspiracy theory and not a conspiracy actual.
That's because the whole thing might be a convenient myth.
We did not know this going into it. But the
whole idea of this Constantinian conspiracy right to advance Christianity
over all other pre existing religions. It doesn't come from
(20:24):
hard evidence. It comes from people looking at timelines and
making educated guesses. And the closest thing to a smoking
gun is literal scribbling in margins of a book or
a manuscript by an unnamed anonymous Syrian monk sometime in
the twelfth century sore than more than a millennia after
(20:47):
the fact, people read about this and they just dug
the vibe. Whoever this guy was, he wasn't originally out
to make a hit piece. He was trying to figure
out why Western churches moved Christianity from January to December
and why Eastern churches didn't get with the program. And
he was like, hey, they moved it closer to the solstice.
(21:09):
That's weird. And then people who did not like Christianity
found out about this and they said, perfect, you know
what I mean. It's like if you already don't like,
you know, a specific creed or ethnicity, and you read
something that you think makes them sound bad and then
you repost it on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Dude, but I have to The winter solstice thing is
so interesting to me when it comes to the storytelling
that was happening, happening in like ancient Persia at the time.
About this concept, the very concept that evil forces, darkness
(21:52):
worth it's the strongest right around this time of year
when when you when you're at the winter solstice, when
the days are the shortest, when the night is the longest,
when it's very cold, that is when the evil forces
are at its strongest. So if you have a savior
figure that emerges right in that moment when it is,
(22:14):
you know, the darkest night of the soul for all
of humanity. Right, you have a savior figure arise in
that moment literally with a star, you know, in this
symbology and all that stuff. It is the type of
storytelling that could be. You could see it cutting through
cultural different cultural and religious beliefs.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
It takes the same boxes, right.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, I mean this is where we get to studies
of comparative religion. Again, George Fraser, The Golden Bough is nuts.
It was first published in eighteen ninety and it's talking
about a lot of the same things, and it still
holds up because Fraser was largely correct. We're fun at parties.
(23:00):
This is a great point that we're making here because
we see commonality of experience. Right, it doesn't matter what
you believe. Winter Solstice is still the longest night of
the year. Doesn't matter to whom you pray. It still
gets cold, yeah, at predictable times of the year and
(23:21):
warmer at other times.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Well, and it goes across every culture. You look at Stonehenge,
Machu Pichu, you all over the planet, there are monuments
built to both celebrate and venerate the solstices, right, and
that's there are slits within stone work that will only
send light into one part of a massive dome thing
(23:46):
that was built, you know, well before allegedly Jesus was
born that are celebrating that moment of the sunrise the
dawn on that day.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
So if you want, if you want your hero in
your story to be the most heroic and most auspicious,
then you push them or associate them with something that
people already understand as auspicious and important. That doesn't make
Now we're not denigrating any belief system. That doesn't make
(24:17):
it untrue. Right, And that's not us poo pooing or
anything that is pointing out how this sort of stuff
historically works, not just in the case of Christianity, but
in the case of pretty much every successful religious school
of thoughts. Successful being defined as something that a mimetic
(24:39):
evolution that propagates across generations.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Still, the conspiracy theory about Constantine saying, you know, screw Saturnalia,
I'm tired of this Mythris guy that probably came to
be way after his death. And we got to give
a shout out to a professor at Yale Andrew McGowan,
who totally agrees with this and makes a really compelling
(25:04):
case that this was anti Christian and anti Christmas propaganda
in the twelfth century. What we're saying is, that's right,
fellow conspiracy realist. It sounds silly when you hear it
on your news networks every year, but back in the day,
there really was a war on Christmas. There really was
war on Christmas. It's also strange because birthdays were not
(25:28):
as big of a deal back then. You know, if
you like think about it, you are an adherent of Christianity.
Jesus Christ is the Messiah. His birthday is great, good
that he's here, but the real emphasis is on when
he dies and rises again. Sure, that's what makes him
Jesus Christ. Definitely, it's definitely the more impressive trick. Everybody
(25:53):
has a birthday, not everybody has an Easter.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's true, exactly, but it's a lot like it's a
lot like the Sun, guys, the Sun. I'm just you know,
just saying absolutely, because I can't get over this. I did, wait,
I dove way too deep into the Midsummer Thing. I
think I watched that movie not that long ago, and
I was just thinking more and more about it about
ancient practices. But like New Grange, this tomb mound built
(26:19):
in Ireland, like thirty two hundred BC, is all about
the rising of the sun on that you know, right
around that time. Like I don't know exactly what the
date was, December, what what it would be calculated to
in thirty two hundred BC when it was built, but
it would be it would be right around that time
when the sun rises and defeats evil, right, defeats the cold,
(26:40):
the winter, all that stuff. Go back to karnak out
in lux or all these places, same thing four thousand
years ago. That story is just so potent.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
It makes me wonder what maritime life forms worship, right,
should they have the capacity for worship, which they probably do,
especially to take Do.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
You think it would be sun based or it would
be more based on current Maybe.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
I think it would be current. Yeah, I think it
would have to be current. Right, Let us know what
your local pods and citations worship, you know, because yeah,
the humans in the early days obviously they're gonna they're
they're gonna worship the sun and they're gonna fear the night, yes, right,
and then they'll worship the things they fear. Because you
(27:25):
worship what you adore, you also worship what you fear.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Just crazy, Yeah, you sacrifice stuff to it to be like,
please don't hurt.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Us ancestor worship animism. Yeah, those are cool, man, They're
still continued practices.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Did you guys see the trailer for The Witcher.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
For I did? I did? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Deals exactly with that concept of sacrificing to the bad thing.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Guys, sorry to do for five seconds. Speaking of trailers,
have you seen the trailer for the New twenty the
twenty eight years later, the Zion film. It has this
poem in it that is is like a like a
vintage recording of this poem called I think it's called.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Boots, Boots Boots. It's by rudyerd Kipling. But it doesn't
say that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It's just this insane, arresting spoken word that like just
kind of syncs up with the bill and the tension
of the music and the images and the trailer.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
I had to look it up and it's freaking wild.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I mean, I know, Ben, you're a big fan of
his poetry. Despite him, you know, we all know he's
got problematic figure.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I'm a big fan of some of his There you goes.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
So this one, man, it blew me away.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's just all about war, and it's like it has
this cadence to it. It's almost Death March kind of
cadence to it. Really powerful. If you look up on YouTube,
you can hear recording on its own, it's this very
like famous recording with somebody reading this poem.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, and it's also used. I think it'll be very
familiar with a lot of our marine conspiracy realist in
the crowd. Not maritime animals, but like actual marines, because yeah,
tell us what you think. We also know that eventually,
through this great game of heavenly and Earthly telephone, more
(29:06):
and more people began to accept the idea of December
twenty fifth as the date of the Messiah's birth, and
that created a feedback loop because the more people that
accept it, the more people that accept it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And now you're weird for not accepting it.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Right, not like having a cell phone used to be weird,
and now it's weird to not have one. So we
will never know the actual real birthday of Jesus, at
least not here on earth. But we can say conclusively,
probably wasn't what we call Christmas today, Probably was not
in December. This shouldn't be a bummer, though, because it's
(29:41):
the thought that matters more than a specific date and time.
Matthew and Luke were probably onto something with that that
was actually kind of smarter them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
But speaking of the thought that matters, or the thought
that counts, that is no excuse to give Amazon gift
cards for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, that's just lazy.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
What happened?
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Man?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I just I will die on this. Hell be thoughtful?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Okay? Does someone hurt your feelings?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I know, maybe irrelevant. It's just an opinion that I
wanted to express in this moment.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
And I assume that we apply to all gift cards.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I think gift cards are a little weak sauce that's awful,
even if.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's like a gift card to a specific thing.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Applebee's maybe as I yeah, as yeah, sure, absolutely that
would be a fun, thoughtful gift card because he really
loves Applebee's.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
But to give this just open ended, you figure it
out thing to somebody as.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
A gift, I would say, just don't don't, don't get
them anything.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
What do you think about hard currency.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yes, the gift of grandparents and absolutely acceptable from them
in a card with.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Handwritten okay, okay okay.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Or hands signs. I used to give my uh the
cards I would send people for like Hanukah or Christmas
or whatever they would they would usually I would usually
have somewhere in there dictated but not read. Here you go,
which yeah, I got I had. Uh. This has nothing
to do with anything. When you get Eagle Scout, you
(31:12):
used to get a lot of notable politicians and celebrities
and astronauts and stuff that would send you like a
congratulatory letter or they would send you a picture that
they had signed. And got one from Bob Hope with
this pretty nice letter was a super long it was
about a page and it ended with dictated but not
(31:35):
read and his secretary and I thought it was the
classiest thing. I figure he was. I just imagine the
guy strolling around the room. Well he just just extolling
these ideas. He's like put something in about uh America.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
He was mister a s O.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Like the big the big touring productions for the troops,
you know, the road shows and stuff.
Speaker 6 (32:03):
Wasn't that a big thing that Bob Hope was into
it makes it yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But this this also gives us
the idea of people spitballing, right the gospel dictated but
not red yea and read later. So this is where
we see calendars change. You know, this is another trip,
he thought, you guys, I know we're going along, but
calendars seem permanent, yet are somewhat changeable over time, you know,
(32:28):
like the what happens when humans continue to reach toward
the stars? Are we? I suggest the calendars will have
to evolve in step? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, Well, once all these aliens finally make themselves known
that are hanging out in New Jersey right now, I mean, yeah,
you stop it. I'm okay, I will.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Or the aliens land and they say, they say something like,
oh yeah, Jesus is absolutely real. We hang out with
him all the time. Yeah, like we see him all
the time, don't you guys? He was what did you
do to him? Hey? What happened?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
That's uh? That was Oh who did that? Somebody went
on stage and did that as a as their bit? Yes,
and it was it was so good. It was Oh
what the I just I just heard it recounted it
hold on I got at no.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Bob Hope, no Carpenter.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Sorry, I just uh, I've got a.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Can you describe the person?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It was Richard Pryor, And it was a retelling of
a time that Richard Pryor went on stage and he
embodied God, like God himself. He went out on stage
as God, and I was talking about his son and like,
I mean, my son is so awesome, just talking about
his son, and he's like, so, where have you seen him?
Like where is he? Wait? What? And then the audio
(34:00):
proceeds to explain to God what happened to Jesus?
Speaker 6 (34:03):
I see?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And then he does the same thing with Martin Luther King,
with Malcolm X, with JFK and all this stuff. It
was just and it was apparently really somber and sad
the entire time he's on set and they just left
and he's just like, all right, well, they basically just said, well,
this is I'm leaving. Yeah, this is the bottomy of
(34:26):
Now God is no longer with us.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Sorry, yeah, no, I feel you. Richard Pryor is one
of the great orators of Western society. I would often
people confused with the comedian, just like George Carling, but
I would say the alien thing would be interesting. They
we don't know if that's going to happen yet, but
we know the calendar will probably transform as humanity becomes
(34:49):
a multi terrestrial species, right, and well.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, what if it's based on the rather than the
Solar system, right solar? What if it's on the galaxy
itself at least for every time?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
That'd be cool. I miss the Zoom meeting, guys, I
thought this was in galactic time.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Crap, crap.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
I mean, it's a question for another day. But we
do have we do have an answer. You know, whether
you're Christian, whether you're non Christian, atheist, whatever your belief
system may be, you don't have to be Christian to
agree with the overall message of this guy. Just be
good to other people. Help when you can, how you
can when you can. You know, that's the real stuff
(35:34):
they don't want you to know. To shout out to
Frank Cross and Scrooge, no one ever needed a specific
day to be a good person. It can just be
a Tuesday and you can still do amazing noble things.
It's awesome to be kind in March September tomorrow, the
next week, the next day, it's just as crucial to
(35:57):
do that as it is on Christmas at least, that's
we think. So what do you think. We can't wait
to hear from you, folks, so we try to be
easy to find online. You can send us an email
if you want to get on our naughty list.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
Or our nice list.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
And you can also find this all over the internet
on your social media platforms a choice where we are
conspiracy stuff. On x FKA, Twitter, on YouTube where we
have video content glor for you to enjoy, as well
as on Facebook where we have our Facebook group.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Here's where it gets crazy. On Instagram and TikTok, we're
conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Show you better call us you naughty a little so
and so. Our number is one eight three three st
d WYTK. That story, by the way, about Richard Pryor
was told by Howie Mandel. That's if you want to
search it up Howi Mandel, Richard Pryor. God check that out.
When you call in. Give us a cool nickname for yourself.
(36:50):
Whatever it is, we don't care. We're excited to hear it.
You've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like. At some
point in the message, let us know if we can
use your name and message on the air. If you've
got more to say than can fit in a three
minute voicemail, why not instead send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive twenty four to seven as long as this
calendar continues. Spoiler. Getting on the Knotty list is a
very very cool thing, and we want to take a
second and thank everybody who wrote in with amazing stories
about the third Man factor, as well as dropping us
(37:25):
some phone calls. So many stories, we were betting this
one would speak to a lot of us in the audience.
We've received so many accounts that it may be time
for us to do a themed listener mail program on
these third Man stories in the meantime, If you'd like
to be part of that, or give us any of
(37:47):
your thoughts at all, hit us up out here in
the dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
Monster: BTK
'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.