It's a Wonderful Life

Welcome to this week's LIVE episode on It's a Wonderful Life, recorded in LA at Dynasty Typewriter! Thanks for helping us raise money for ANERA and PCRF. Also, Please check out linktr.ee/BechdelCast for tickets to Santa University on December 21, and our upcoming tour in February 2024!

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechde Cast, the questions ask if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn
bast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, Bechdel Cast listeners.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
My name is Caitlin and my name is Jamie, and
this is the Bechdel Cast. You know what you love it?
If this is your first time catch up, maybe because
it's an unusual week, been an unusual months on the cast,
and I celebrate that. This week we are releasing a
live show, and not just any live show, a live
show we just recorded in Los Angeles as of this

(00:39):
recording less than twenty four hours ago.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, and speaking of live shows, so we'll get in.
We'll get to the episode in just a moment, but
before we do, we want to take this opportunity to
let you know about more live shows that we are
going to be doing, because we have a tour planned
for February twenty twenty four. We are going to the

(01:04):
Bay Area. We'll be doing a show in San Francisco
and Sacramento. Then we are heading to Texas for shows
in Dallas and Austin, and then we were swinging back
around to California and doing a show in San Diego. Now,
at the time of us recording this, we're still finalizing

(01:26):
some of the details, but a few ticket links are
already live and up on our link tree link Tree
slash Bechtel Cast.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Which is also linked in the description. And yeah, we're
super excited to be back on the road. We hear
you Bechdel Cast listeners that we need to get off
our asses and get off the West coast. So you'll
see a lot of that in the coming months, and
we're excited. We were particularly excited to go to Austin

(01:57):
because we had a show in Austin that was sold
out scheduled for April twenty twenty and you'll never believe
what happened next. So we are excited to finally, almost
four years later, make it back to Austin and head
over to Dallas as well. So and we're just pumped
to be back on tour. Yes, and for this live show,

(02:19):
you'll know from the title we covered, it's a wonderful life,
is it? We spent some time pondering deciding, and another
important element of this show is that half of the
proceeds from this show went to ANARA and PCRF. These
are both nonprofits that are contributing to aid taking place

(02:44):
in Gaza right now. Of course, if you're listening and
you are a person in the world, you're very likely
aware of what's going on in Gaza right now. There
is not a lot of aid reaching Gaza because of
the horrific uenocytal practices that are taking place around Gaza. However,
we wanted to do what we can not just by

(03:07):
making our politics very clear on the show. I know
we've referenced it, but for the sake of just being
explicit about it on the feed. Yeah, So half of
the money from the show went to the PCRF is
short for Palestine Children's Relief Fund. An ERA is short
for America Near East Refugee Aid. So that money has

(03:29):
been donated and sincerely hope that the aid that is
being sent is able to actually reach the people of
Gaza as soon as possible. Free Palestine. America is the
worst place in the world. So that was what we
are doing, in addition to continuing to raise awareness as

(03:53):
we can. That said, we really appreciate everyone who came
out to the show. We had a really great time.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
And who watched the live stream blog? Yes, bought tickets
to the live stream. Yes, really appreciate you supporting us,
supporting this fundraising effort. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yes, we recorded. It was our first show at Dynasty
Typewriter in Los Angeles, so huge shout out to Dynasty
and their team. God, it was so cool. The live
stream setup there is wonderful. The vibes are immaculate, and
we had the best time.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
We really did.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
If you caught the live stream, thank you. If you
were there, it got to hang out even better. And
we're excited to hit more cities and see more listeners soon.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
So true.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
But for now we've got business to do.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well and then one more live show for you to
plug Jamie.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Okay, Yes, if you're in the Los Angeles area, and
you should be, please head out to the Allegian Theater,
where we've also done live shows in the past, the
Allegiant Theater in LA we will be doing a live
reading of the first and most recent, certainly not last,
installment of Santi University. If you're listening to the Bexxel

(05:11):
cast and you don't know what Santi University.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Is get with the program.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Shame on you, Shame on you kind of Santi University
is a bit, but is it.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
That it's real? It's okay, it's a documentary.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
It's hundreds of pages I've written at this point, so
I feel like it has to be real. It's a
scream a six hundred allegedly six hundred page screenplay that
we've been doing every holiday season. I'll write a new
twenty to thirty pages, depending on how much time I
give myself to write it each year. It's super jokey,

(05:47):
it's super goofy. We can link an example in the description.
But it's like my favorite thing to do in the world,
because besides the Bechel cast, of course, it's like the
most it's the most brain My favorite brain dead activity
and the entire planet is writing Santa University. I don't
use one brain cell. I have six panic attacks and

(06:08):
it's not good, so you should come. Caitlyn will be
reprising their treasured holiday role of Sully.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Okay, best character scene, steal it. Where's the spin off?

Speaker 4 (06:20):
You know?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Six seasons in a movie for Sully, Sully High School,
Sully High. Oh my gosh, I'll fine I'll write it.
You don't have to twist my arm.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Just to give you an idea of the kinds of
characters found in this world. Sully is a character who's
from Weston, Massachusetts, who fired the protagonist Dan Santa from
Lydd's and generally, wait, Kitlyn, will you do Sully's iconic line.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh my god, you're so fucking beautiful?

Speaker 3 (06:53):
So it's also a feminist test. Sully appreciates women and
he cat calls all the right reasons. Anyways, you should
come hang out. We're donating all the proceeds from that
show to a nonprofit that I love very much. I
volunteer with them, CILA that supports the unhoused community in

(07:14):
La So, even if it's the worst show on the planet,
and it might be, your money is going to a
wonderful place, So come out. We'll link that as well.
But you know what, show definitely wasn't the worst show
in the world. It was, in fact one of the best,
and maybe in fact the best.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
The one that you're about to hear. So, without much
further ado, please enjoy our live episode of It's a
Wonderful Life.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Hi, Welcome to the Bechdelcast.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Hello La it's us and we live here and you
live here.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Maybe we went shopping together this morning to get these
fits together.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I have a very cool shirt under this, and maybe
I'll take this sweater off at some point.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
We haven't done an LA live show in a bit,
and I think that one of the last ones we did.
At least you did an actual strip tease because we
were covering magic mic.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yes, round of applause if you were at that show. Wow,
so you saw that was.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
One of the most wait Titanic quote. It was the
most erotic experience.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Of my life up until then, at least last March.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
You and I start making out right now, we start
making out and then you start drawing me. Yeah, yes,
that's how that would work. Yes, anyways, thanks for coming.
Things were coming at four pm. Two We're like, do
people come out at four pm? Let's find out. It's
a little scary. It's it's dark out though, so that's

(09:10):
and it feels like night. And that concludes our kind
of warm up portion.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Of the show. Shout out to anyone watching the live stream. Yes,
I oh yeah, say whoo for them.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
They're so mad they're not in the little seats, aren't
they there? Okay, give it up if you have if
you have listened to the Bechdel Cast before, we like
to take a chance. Okay, free applause. Give it up.
If you have been dragged here by someone who listens
to the Bechdel Cast and you're scared and you don't

(09:46):
know what's gonna happen. Oh oh my, the lights went
up and I just saw one guy like, whoo if
you're a god his eyes but he was ready. He's good.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
We're scary, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
We're scary. We're scared, but we're wearing nice little outfits.
So it's all about aesthetics, that's true. So the movie
we're covering today, if you can't tell from our our
very festive apparel, is a movie that we have. I
feel like because our show has been around for so long,
we have covered so many holiday movies, yes, right down

(10:23):
to the one that came out on Netflix last year
where Lindsay Lohan gets bonked on the head, right, But
we hadn't covered one that is considered a classic, which
is It's a Wonderful Life. So just to take the
temp once more, give it up. If you have seen

(10:46):
and enjoy a wonderful life, all right, and if you
haven't seen it, okay, brave, brave, I had it. I
don't know. I haven't seen shit. I watched The Godfather
in March and I was like, it's pretty good. You guys,
they're kind of the Godfather's kind of a slave.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
These these frank sees know how to direct a movie.
That's a reference to this movie directed by Frank Capra
and Francis Ford Coppola, who maybe was also called Frank.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
We don't know. There's no way to know, because he's alive.
I just remembered so we could ask him to get
to get started. Caitlin, Yes, what is your history with
the movie? It's a Wonderful Life? Nineteen forty six.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So I saw the movie for the first time. I
was like probably eighteen or nineteen. I did not grow
up with this movie, so I have no nostalgic attachment
to it, and I controversially.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Do not really like this movie.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Sorry, thank you. I have good reasons. I find Jimmy
Stewart irritating. Sorry, thank you again. He's irritating.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Okay, I disagree with that.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
A lot of people do. I am in the minority.
I do think, but I find his character to be
mostly unlikable, and yeah, I just I'm not a fan,
but I'm gonna set that aside and look at this
movie objectively for this episode, I wink.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Can I just say, I would just want to start
by commending you for your bravery, thank you for watching
the movie on Oh I want Okay, wait, my history
with this movie, Lease tell me is that I had
not seen it. Like most movies we've covered on the show,
it's usually my first time watching it, unless it's like

(12:49):
the Lindzie McGuire movie. I'm like, yeah, I've seen this
movie five hundred times. I've seen bad movies five hundred times.
This one I hadn't seen, and I started watching it
for It's available for free on Roku tv right now asterisk.
They couldn't afford the music, so they've replaced it with

(13:09):
like Baby Einstein music, And I would really recommend that
experience because it's so jarry. If I hadn't been watching
the movie with someone that was like, hold on, something
is very wrong because in the Roku TV one, every
time Clarence not the elf in my mind, Okay, the

(13:33):
thing is, I'm gonna fuck up repeatedly in this episode.
I'm gonna call them Clarence the Elf, and I'm gonna
call Bedford Falls New Bedford, Massachusetts, and that will keep happening,
and I will not apologize for That's fine. But yeah,
anytime like in this, I don't even know what happens
in the original score, but they add in this royalty

(13:56):
free alphabet song. Every time is on the screen, it
goes bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom boom boom boom boom boom,
like and you're just like, this could Twin beIN a
Little Star ABC DFG. It's the same tune.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Oh that is it, Caitlin a bct twin? Okay, yeah,
I see it.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
The lack of trust between us, it's the I only
learned that from like clickbait in twenty twelve or something.
I don't know. It's like, did you know some crack
dot comshit on their on their crack dot comshit. Anyways,
I had not seen it before. I started watching it
with the wrong music and I got scared. H And

(14:42):
then I watched it for a second time with the
correct music, and I liked it better.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I I have complicated feelings towards this movie because I
didn't grow up with it. My family never showed it
to me, and I asked my mom why and she
answered with one word, which was boring.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
She's not wrong.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
She's not wrong. The thing is, like, I think this
is I well, actually, round of applause. If you grew
up with this movie and watched it as a kid, weirdos.
This is such a depressing, like weird long movie. It
opens with with a man about to take his own

(15:25):
life because he's been told by society that he's worth
more dead than alive, and you, as a six year old,
were like, let them cook, Like that's that's interesting. I yeah,
I think that if I saw this when I was
a kid, I would have left the room and been like,
could we turn on SpongeBob?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
But like, you know, not that Christmas Carol the only
Christmas movie, right, I like, because we're babies and so anyways,
I hadn't seen it. I watch it for the first
time to get ready for this episode, and I have
like complicated feelings towards it because I think in some
ways there were parts where I felt very emotional. I
was like, wow, I like, I am surprised that these

(16:04):
sort of values are being shown in a movie from
the forties. And then in other ways, I'm like, why
is he yelling at his wife in every scene there?
Why is he yelling or aggressively forcing a kiss on.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
To Donna Read in every single scene? And so I
would say, I don't know. I'm willing to be swayed, okay,
And I am afraid and and I will also qualify
that with I am actively afraid of fans of this movie.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
And I don't want to get yelled at, but I
but we have a job to do, and we're and
that is why you're here. And we've famously never been
wrong before, so true. Why start now?

Speaker 2 (16:46):
All right? Shall I do the recap.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Caitlin's famous recap? Let's do it?

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay? Here we go? Wow, thank you?

Speaker 4 (16:55):
All right.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So we're gonna place some content warning for suicide right here, which.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Is a wild way to have to open a holiday movie.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's like, yes, okay, so we open in Bedford Falls.
Ever heard of it? I think it's an upstate New
York is my best guess.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
That's what upstate New York is really like, I was reading.
I went in so deep on the parts of this
movie that don't matter. There's been arguments for the better
part of a century of like were they referencing this
town in upstate New York or was it just a
guy being like there's a town hm, hm, will never matter,
It doesn't matter. It's New Bedford. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
So there are a bunch of voices praying asking that
George Bailey be helped. Then we see some stars in
the night sky or is it heaven.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
The heavens even maybe they're talking because the stars are
actually angels and they hear people's prayers about George Bailey,
and they send an angel named Clarence to help George, not.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Before insulting Clarence, Oh my gosh, being like where is
I feel like Clarence has big Dan Santa energy to me,
and that they're like, this angel looks like shit, he
can't even read, can't even read. We don't like him,
we don't respect him. But and that shows what the

(18:32):
heavens feel about George Bailey. They're sending him their very worst.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
So true. Okay, so the reason Clarence is going to
go help George is because he is thinking of ending
his life. Clarence has not gotten his wings yet, his
angel wings. So the other angels say that if he's
able to help George, he will get his wings, So
ulterior motives they're there. It's true, he doesn't get about

(19:00):
actually helping someone. He's just like I want my wings, right, And.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
We could argue, you know, the level of like how
well does Clarence actually do it his job? I mean
it's kind of up for you know, it's up for
this guy. And I hear that there's some Clarence heads
and that are.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
Like he did what he had to do, Clarence, I
think ultimately spoiler alert at the end, when Clarence does
get his wings, I just like wanted like a centerfold,
like a nude centerfold.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
With Clarence and his wings.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, and you want him to be nude for that?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
For me, he would have to be nude for that there. Okay,
can you imagine the cover like December nineteen forty six,
Clarence gets his wings and then you open the magazine
it is nude Clarence, huge wingspance.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Wow. And this would be where in like in Playboy
magazine magazine Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, Horny Sex God magazine.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay, all right, Well anyway, so the other angels start
telling Clarence about George, and so most of the movie
is flashbacks to George's life, starting with George Bailey as
a kid. He saved his little brother Harry when he
fell through some thin ice.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Then George, who works at a drug store child labor alert.
He prevents someone from getting poisoned because the druggist mister Gower,
accidentally tries to give someone poison capsules instead of medicine.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Because his son died. Caately, I'm his son died, so
he was crying so he couldn't see the huge jug
of poison. He got confused. He was having a bad day.
It could have been any of us among us hasn't
accidently poisoned the child.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Okay, So we also meet mister Potter. He's played by
Lionel Barrymore. He's the richest man in town. He's very mean,
he's very evil, and he's always trying to put the
building in loan that George's father and his uncle Billy run.
Mister Potter is trying to put it out of business
all the time.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Mister Potter very much the villain, however, I think one
of the most like I haven't seen a more iconic
movie wheelchair than mister Potter. I mean he's had it
retrofitted into a full thrown throne. Yes, and I respect
that about him and nothing else.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, Yeah, Okay, So we cut to George Bailey as
a young man. He's now played by James Stewart. His
whole thing is he can't wait to get out of
his town of Bedford Falls aka New bed Massachusetts.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, he wants much more than this provincial life.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I literally wrote that in my Yes, That's why he
keeps fucking saying it.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
I'm like, have you not seen Beauty the Beast nineteen
ninety one, bitch?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, So he can't wait to get out explore the world.
He has a trip coming up that he where he's
gonna go to Europe and then he's gonna go to
college after that. So then we meet some townspeople such
as Ernie the cab driver, Bert the cop, and then
we're like okay, Burt and Ernie.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
And then and then we're like, oh no, Wikipedia is
ahead of us on this, and it's a coincidence. Sorry, yeah,
right there, we're gonna start a conspiracy. Jim Hen's a
you fucking liar.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Okay. Then we also meet Violet. She's blonde and she's hot,
and she's an icon. I love Violet. I mean I
wish we so dirty in this movie. Well we'll get
back to. Yeah. We also meet George's mother, another woman
we barely know anything about anyway.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
What's her first what's her first name? Mama?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Missus? Okay. George heads to his brother Harry's graduation party.
This is where he reconnects with Mary played by Donna Reid,
and they see each other and they are both like
uh wooga, and they start dancing, and then there's this
whole thing where they fall into a swimming pool.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
This is a like, I'm okay with a swimming pool
jump scare. That's gonna be good for me in every movie. However,
this whole sequence, and I know that, like I don't know,
there's no good way to do this other than truly
casting a younger actor to play the character when they're younger.
But there's a whole twenty minute chunk of this movie
where a visibly forty year old Jimmy Stewart is supposed

(23:50):
to be twenty one. Yeah, and it's so confusing, it's
unbelievably confusing, because you have to like go through all
of these layers of dissonance, which is, first of all,
like even Riverdale wasn't pushing like this. Yeah, you know,
it's like he looks his age and that's great, but
he keeps being like how old are you? And I'm
like how old are you? And he's like twenty one

(24:13):
and You're like, no, you're not, you fucking liar. And
then and then on top of that, you have to
like weave through the fact that the age gaps between
hetero Hollywood couples have always been so huge that Donna
Reid does look closer to the age she's supposed to
be and Jimmy Stewart looks forty, and like, is this
canonically predatory or is it just casting predatory And anyways,

(24:36):
it's casting predatory and Jimmy Stewart's definitely twenty one.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, so confusing. Also another movie where at least young characters,
maybe not young actors, but young characters are in a
swimming pool thinking fully closed, just like say it with
me now, Leonardo DiCaprio, fake fans on fuck believable, look

(25:02):
it up.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
No, yeah, people fully clothed in the pool, having a
coming of age moment. Yeah, it's a timeless trope, it is.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, Well, normally the young people having a coming of
age moment are in there, like swimwear.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, but if you're Leonardo DiCaprio, you're fully clothed every time,
and we don't know why, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Okay, So they fall in a swimming pool, and then
we cut to later that evening, they're walking around, they're flirting,
they walk past this old rundown house that Mary loves.
Will put a pin in that, and she's wearing a
robe because her clothes got wet from falling in the
swimming pool. And so there's this part where her robe

(25:45):
falls off and she's naked and she's hiding in the
bushes and we will just have to talk about that
later because it's too much right now. Then George gets
word that his father had a he dies from it.
So George feels obligated to cancel his trip to Europe

(26:07):
and to take over his father's business, the Bailey Building
and Loan. The evil mister Potter, who is a board member,
tries to dissolve it, but George makes this impassioned speech
and the board votes to keep the building and loan
going as long as George is in charge, which like

(26:27):
messes with his plans to go to college and explore
the world. So now he's stuck in Bedford Falls.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
He's a forty year old college freshman. He's way behind.
He keeps like it really is so watching this movie
for the first time in the past week was so
jarring because he's talking to his father and he's like,
I have to go to college. I'm like, yeah, man,
hurry up, you're running out of time.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, So he feels stuck in his town at least
until his brother Harry, finishes college so that Harry can
take over the family business. But four years later, when
Harry returns from school, Harry's wife's father has offered Harry
a job, so George has to stay with the building
and loan. Then George's mother urges him to get with Mary,

(27:19):
who has also been away at school until now, but
George doesn't want to compete with his friend Sam Wainwright,
who was very much like all the adults in the
graduate who are like, you got to get into plastics.
That's Sam Waynwright huge.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, he started the trend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah. He's also in love.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
With Mary well, but is he though, because you cut
to him on the phone and you're like, well, he
seems to be cheating on her today.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, and he more calls for a business proposal than
like a social calling to talk.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
To George, which is interesting because the house he calls
George does not live at. I know, but you know,
I think that that is just like Hollywood coding for
he's a dog. We don't care, yeah about this Sam
waying Wright character. George is a good guy. But then
you're like, is he is it a wonderful life even
we don't know?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Anyway, So George goes over to Mary's house and she's
very excited to see him, but he is such an
asshole to her in this scene, and she gets visibly
upset about it, and then he grabs her and screams
on her face. But don't worry, they will get married.
In the next scene.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Cut to their mary wedding. I was watching this with
someone near dear to my heart, and they were crying
through that entire scene. I was like, I don't understand
what is beautiful about the scene. But but you know,
life comes at you fast.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, Okay. So then George and Mary are headed to
their luxurious honeymoon with a stack of cash.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Which is really cool of them, I think. I mean,
is that what happened in nineteen forty six, Like, here's
my budget, Like it's just in your hand. Scary.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, this is like pre Venmo certainly I know that.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Okay, then the stock market crash of nineteen twenty nine happens.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think that happens in Titanic too. Did it happen
in real life? But sound up in the comments?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Uh huh Okay. So everyone's rushing to take their money
out of the bank. So George turns around and goes
to the building a loan where a bunch of people
are demanding their money. But uncle Billy had given away
all the cash to the bank to pay off a
loan or I don't know.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
What I love about uncle Billy is that he's professionally
known as uncle Billy. You never hear anyone call him billy,
whether they're his peer, his relative, his client, they're all like,
uncle Billy, you fuck up? Yes, get that bird out
the way, okay.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So they don't have any cash on hand to give
to the customers, and mister Potter is threatening to steal
all of the customers and close down the business. So
then George has to shell out his own personal stack
of cash that he was going to use for his
honeymoon and he gives it to all the townspeople in
order to save the business. Then he's like, oh, right,

(30:45):
it's my wedding day. I have to call my wife.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
He's like, oh, yeah, I left my wife in a
running car six hours ago. Better check in.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
And she's like, come to this address. So he shows
up and it's the old Rundown house that Mary has
always loved, and now it's their house. I think they're
squatting in it.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I actually think I have Uh well, I was gonna
say this later, but like I think that that is
like if that is because I wasn't able to find
any maybe some listeners understand the plot reason why that happened,
But if they really did see an unclaimed house and
then just reclaimed it, I think that that is like
one of the more radical things that happens in the movie.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Truly. Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah, I mean that happens now and it's like necessary
and cool because there's so much housing that's just like
left empty. So I'm like, yeah, this mansion you've been
throwing rocks at for twenty years. Clearly no one lives here.
Move the fuck in see who yells at you?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, but she has prepared a little honeymoon for them
at this house. We cut to sometime later. George Bailey
has set up this place called Bailey Park where a
lot of his customers have built homes. People who used
to live in mister Potter shitty houses and you know,
pay rent to him because he's an evil landlord, but

(32:05):
now they're homeowners thanks to George. Then mister Potter offers
George a job, I think in an effort to like
eliminate him as a competitor, and he's offering George much
better pay, which would give him the freedom to travel
around the world. But George is like, no, I just
remembered that I hate you, so no thanks.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
I I do like that scene though, because he's like offer,
you know, like he has like a carrot dangled in
front of him of like, isn't capitalism the best? And
George is like, yeah, I want a nice shoe. And
then there's this like great slash weird acting choice from
Jimmy Stewart where he shakes mister Potter's hand, and then

(32:49):
he pulls it away because he's decided that capitalism is bad. Actually,
but he's played away like there's something on the.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Hand like peepee and pooh pooh.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
It's like they're like, wait a second, mister Potter has
shit on his like or come or jelly or just
something unpleasant to find on a hand. Yeah, and that's
what changed. That's what made him realize capitalism was bad. Yes, yes,
it was come on that.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
We can all agree with that, yes.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Added to the Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
So George then goes home and his wife tells him
that she's gregnant.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, and then she just starts t shirt gunning him out.
Oh my god, right, great, great, great, four greg's in total.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
But also there's a war on there is so before that,
you know, they have a couple of kids. Mary fixes
up their house, George continues working at the building and loan,
and then World War two begins. A bunch of men
go to fight in the war. Did that happen in
real life? I wonder, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
It's concept once again, what is this USO they spoke?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
But George stays behind because of a hearing impairment, that
when he saved his brother from falling through the ice,
he lost hearing in one ear. Then his brother Harry
comes back a war hero, if there's any such thing
as a hero of war.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Again, very brief, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Okay, anyway, it's Christmas Eve now and Uncle Billy is
about to make a deposit to the bank of eight
thousand dollars in cash. I did the math. That is
about one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in twenty
twenty three money just for inflation.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Not to come down too hard on uncle Billy. But
if you saw how many squirrels are in this man's office,
would you give him that amount of money cash to deposit.
He's simply too eccentric to get that amount of money
in cash.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's true. And what he does is absent mindedly tuck
the cash into a newspaper that he then hands to
mister Potter, who realizes Uncle Billy's mistake but doesn't tell
anyone and just steals the money spoiler alert.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Even with the happy ending of this movie, mister Potter
gets away with this. It's really interesting, I mean realistic.
I think, well, yeah, it's another part of the movie.
I like, not that that happened, but that, like, you know,
it's realistic. Rich people get away with sheet all the time.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yep, oh too real for you. Okay, wait does that happen?

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Sound up in the comments?

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Okay, So Uncle Billy is obviously freaking out about having
lost this money. George is freaking out. If they don't
come up with it, they'll go bankrupt and maybe even
end up in prison. So George goes home. He screams
at his wife and his children. He kicks some furniture over.
We'll also talk about this scene.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
In more details, like what why are you upset?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Then he leaves and goes to mister Potter asking for
a loan of eight thousand dollars, and mister Potter wants
some collateral, so George offers up his life insurance policy
worth fifteen thousand dollars, and he realizes he's worth more
dead than alive, so George leaves. He gets drunk at

(36:36):
Martini's bar. He crashes his car into a tree, and
then he goes to a bridge and is about to
jump and end his life when suddenly someone else jumps
in the river. It is Clarence the guardian angel who
was sent to help him. So George jumps in to
save Clarence, and we cut to them in some place.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
That part of the movie is like where the Baby
Einstein gets especially scary, where through this whole like really
intense not just emotionally charged, but like socially charged scene
because we're talking about how suicide is perceived in the
culture at this point, and it's just Baby Einstein, Twinkle

(37:22):
Twinkle Little Star playing beneath the whole thing. It's interesting.
You should check it out. Superior cut.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, go to Roku dot com. Uh, okay. So as
they're in this like office, I don't know, they're drying
off and warming up, and George is like, ough, everybody
would be better off if I was never born, and
Clarence is like, oh really, because let me show you
how things would be if you were never born.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
You're like, wait a second, there's only twenty minutes left
in the movie. He's starting the Christmas Carol now, yeah,
and he is doing that.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I also liken it to the second half of Back
to the Future two, when Marty goes back to nineteen
eighty five and like Biff is the president or whatever.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
I haven't seen it. Oh my god, I'm so young. Sorry, guys.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Okay, so Clarence takes George around town to show him
this alternate reality if George never existed.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Hot take it looks fun.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
It looks so much more fun Pottersville.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
They're like, we replaced the loans office with a strip club.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
You're like, great, nice, but that's not what the movie
would have you think. It's like, oh my god, look
how disgusting this place is now.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
More municipal buildings here.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Okay, First of all, the town is no longer called
Bedford Falls, it's now Pottersville.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
That's bad. Fine.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Most of the businesses are bars, nightclubs, strip clubs, casinos.
None of George.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Fine, Potter, you're the cool guy in yes kind he
knows how to party.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
None of Georgia's friends recognize him. Everyone is just kind
of like mean and in a bad mood. Mister Gower,
the druggist is an ex con and an alcoholic. Because
George wasn't around to stop him from accidentally poisoning someone brutal.
George is like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 3 (39:24):
His brother is dead?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, yes, but I kept.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Well, this is like way too far in the weeds.
But I was like, but really, if we thought about it,
if George never existed, would his brother have even been
invited to that ice hang that day? Probably not, and
maybe the world would be better. Makes you think, yeah,
maybe it would be better if he didn't exist. But
that's not the point of the movie.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Sorry, maybe it does not explore that at all.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Everyone's upset at that idea. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Okay, So George goes to his house, but it's not
the nice house that his wife his wife fixed up.
It's still abandoned like it was when he was a teenager.
His family isn't there because Mary never got married. She's
a quote unquote old maid who became a librarian.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Okay, and this this scene is so iconic, it's so
awesome where they're like, what if you were thirty one
years old wearing Warby Parker lenses with a job, and
you're like, I would fucking kill for that dude. That's like,

(40:39):
of course, that's great news for her there, and she
reacts appropriately because there's a man chasing her around, which
is also how he acted when he was her husband.
She arguably got a better deal in the dystopia. Absolutely yes,
because she could just go to bars and strip clubs
with her own money.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
M M.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah, George is like chasing her and then she I
think faints because women be fainting.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
She's also more brunette in a way that felt aggressive, but.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
You know, the movie acts like her like never getting
married is the is a fate worse than death. Also,
George's mom does not recognize him. He learns that his
brother Harry died as a child because George wasn't there
to save him when he fell through the ice. And
Clarence is like, see, George, you've touched so many people

(41:34):
in your life. And if he's referred to all the
times that George Bailey violently grabs someone, then yes, he
has touched so many people his ass. But Clarence is like, George,
You've had such a wonderful life. It's a wonderful life
and that's the name of the movie, and it would

(41:55):
be a mistake to throw it all away. So George
is like, Okay, you're right. So he runs back to
the bridge and he prays to be alive again, and
that happens, and then Bert the cop shows up. Parentheses
ACAB and.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Yeah, ACAB includes Bert and I and I would say
like in an obvious way.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, yeah, And when you think about it, yes, all
cops are bastards, but all cops are burt.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Wow, it's a wonderful life. The Wonderful Hive is gonna
come for us for this one. Okay, wait for like
hot take George shouldn't have been born?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Okay. So Bert the cop is like, hey, George, I
remember I know you. And then George is like, wow,
you recognize me. So then he runs back through town.
He's like, Merry Christmas. He goes back home and then
some men are there to arrest him for this eight
thousand dollars deficit, but he doesn't even freaking care because

(43:05):
he because.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
It's a wonderful life. It turns out.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, and then all of his friends show up and
give him a bunch of money because they heard he
was in trouble.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Which is what the minions do with grew Wow, Indespicable
Me one twenty ten. I've been sitting on this information
for days. The end of It's a Wonderful Life very
much mirrors the end of Despicable Me, to the point
where it may be a direct influence. Wait which part

(43:36):
where Grew is trying to crowdfund his effort to go
to the moon, and then the minions give them gives
Grew their money because at this point it appears that
the millions are paid, which goes away in later installments. Wow,
but it installment won. They have money and they crowdfund
Grew's effort to go to the moon.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's right. Anyway, so his friends show up. I liked
it like the because I feel like they only each
give like one dollars, so I think he has like
two hundred and seventy four dollars at the end.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
But anyway, two hundred and seventy four friends, I mean, wow,
that's I mean, not that many people came to the show. Like,
that's really cool. You have two hundred and seventy four friends.
I mean not as a cop for you know, George Bailey.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
But that's so true. But then his rich friend Sam
Wainwright is like, here's a bunch of money, and then
so he saved the end. That's the movie.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Woo. I think it's fun that Sam was like, remember
when you when you aggressively quote unquote stole my girlfriend.

(44:51):
Doesn't matter, man, here's a million dollars that's great.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
That's progressive.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
I love that. It's almost like the movie cares what
Mary wants.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yeah, but it doesn't. All right, So we're gonna before
we get into the discussion, we're gonna do a little
fun little thing and it's a I'm gonna give you
the rules to a drinking game that you can play, okay,
at a later time when you're watching the movie if
you want.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Okay, So here are the rules. Is everyone ready?

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Okay? So you drink every time? And that one's you're
right to say this. You're right to say this.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Thanks, so okay.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I love that. I also find myself wandering around the
city being like, can I have a million dollars? Hot Dog?
I thought it was great.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Also I realized I didn't say it. And this this
is a podcast, it's an audio medium people will want
to know. So it says, drink every time George Bailey
says hot Dog parentheses by raw Dog by Jamie Loftus. Okay,
and you're right to say it, and I'm right to
say that. Next side, please, so drink every time. Every

(46:06):
time someone insults Clarence the Guardian Angel, the other Angels
insult him, and then so does George Bailey later on relentlessly.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
It is very like, yeah, they're like, dude, you look
like shit, no wonder you don't have wings? Yeah, you
have three brain cells that are currently operational. How are
you going to stop me from my problems? IQ of
the Rabbit is how he's literally introduced.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Literally yes, yes, next line, so drink. When George Bailey
as a child says he's going to have harems and
multiple wives. That only happens once in the movie, but
you should still. But it's a worth it.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
It's a heavy sip, take a heavy zip, finish your
drink even it's impactful.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, yes, okay, next line, so drink. Every time the
plot is contingent on you understanding how a building and
loan operates. But unfortunately you I don't understand, and you
don't know what that is.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
You're just like, shouldn't it be one or the other?
I don't.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I read about it, and I still don't understand how
it works. So this is not a reading podcast. And
we've said that many times. We hate books except for
Rad Doug, but we love that Mary becomes a librarian,
so we contain multitudes. Okay, next slide. Please, so drink

(47:32):
every time you're reminded that houses used to cost ten
dollars and that we are all dying of capitalism. Also,
there's mention of like a house being worth five thousand dollars.
I also did the math for that. That is the
equivalent of eighty five thousand dollars more or less in
twenty twenty three. And once again we are recording this

(47:52):
in La, where houses cost at least a million dollars. Yeah,
and that's if they leak, and that's if they're kind
of shitty and in the valley. No disrespect, Oh my god,
to the valley.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
I do not stand by the colon. Sorry, we just
lost fifty Patreon subscribers. How dare you.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Round of applaza if you live in the valley.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
I'm know your audience games, I'm so sorry, and he
enjoyed the drive home.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Okay, next line, Okay, drink. Drink every time there's an
enormous jar of poison at a pharmacy for some reason. Okay,
next line, drink every time Violet Bic and George Bailey
are so horny for each other that they nearly pass out.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
We'll get back to that. Yeah, Yes.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Next slide, drink every time George and his mother kiss
on the lips. It happens at least twice.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
It's nuts how much this happens. She's like, and I
feel like it is indicated in this slide that she
is an issue. I don't know which version is worse.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
I'm like, is this just like a nineteen forties things
did did adult?

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Wasn't the Hayes Code in action by now?

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah? Why can you French kiss your mom? I priorities
all over the place at this time, truly.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, they're like, we can't have gay people on screen,
but you can kiss your mother on the lips.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
And in fact, you should do it twice.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Okay, Next slide, drink every time there's a random animal
at the Bailey building and.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Loan that's really I have something to say about that.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Okay, later on, Yes, we see a crow or something
pictured here, it's.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
The raven but thank you, sorry, that's my friend.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Next slide, please drink every time Uncle Billy is horrible
at his job.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
This squirrel is so they okay, well this squirrel. The
squirrel is like the best actor in the movie, and
the squirrel is hitting their mark. The second that Billy
is sad. This squirrel is like, like, it's really exciting,
and let's the next slide please, it's just a close up.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Oh yeah, the squirrel. Okay, we agree, Yeah, okay, next
slide and then drink every time. Annie is the best
character in the movie.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Now.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Annie did not appear in the recap because she's not
relevant to the plot at all, but she is the
best character. We will talk about her later. Yes, that's
the end of my drilling game.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Okay, okay. Contexts about this movie. So, this movie came
out in nineteen forty six, just after the end of
World War Two. It is directed by Frank Capra. We'll
talk about his whole history because it's weird and complicated.

(51:25):
But this was a movie that was adapted from a
short story called The Greatest Gift. The Greatest Gift was
published in nineteen thirty nine. There were a lot of
writers that worked on this movie because it went through
a lot of rounds of casting and basically like every
famous old Hollywood person was considered for every role, but

(51:46):
it went to Jimmy Stewart. It feels right for Jimmy Stewart,
whether you like him or not, like it feels like
a very classically Jimmy Stewart role. But I think what's
interesting about it is that a lot of the writers
for this movie were later accused of being communists. Awesome,
but there were a lot of leftist writers associated with

(52:08):
the production of this movie, although none of them were
finally credited. The final credits on this movie credit the
screenplay to Francis Goodrich, Albert Hackett, and Frank Capra, with
some work from Joe Swirling. The two leftists that worked
on this movie were Dorothy Parker and Dalton Trumbo, who
is like, you know, one of the one of the

(52:29):
one of the big ones that makes a movie about him. Yeah,
and it sucked. I didn't see it, and that's too bad.
It's for free on Rogu TV and they played Twinkle
a Little stuff the whole time. What's interesting to me
about that because this movie flopped when it came out

(52:50):
in forty six and I.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Know you do you have, yes, I have some information
about that. Yeah, a box office failure in the sense
that it needed to earn twice the production costs, and
it only earned about the same amount that it costs
to produce and make the movie. So It was considered
a flop, so much so that when the copyright of

(53:12):
this movie lapsed in nineteen seventy four, everyone was like,
no one liked that movie, no one went to go
see it, and so we're not even gonna bother to
renew the copyright, which means it fell into the public domain,
which allowed TV stations TV networks to broadcast it basically
for free. They didn't have to pay any licensing or

(53:34):
royalties on it, which is why it was broadcast so relentlessly.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Yeah, like decades and like in every Christmas Eve? Was
it like broadcasts or something like that.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I use something like that. There's an Adam Ruins everything
about this if you want to look that up. All
this to say it was a box office failure.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Which is interesting because it got like a fair amount
of attention outside of people who went to see it,
which was not too many people. There's all these stories
about how this movie got famous so long after it
came out that some of the child actors who played
Jimmy Stewart's kids, Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reid, because she
will be a raised throughout this movie. There are kids

(54:17):
like didn't even see it. Until it came out on TV,
so it didn't become like really popular until yeah, the seventies, eighties, nineties.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
But at the time when it came out, it was
interrogated by the FBI for espousing communist values, which is,
you know, Jaedgar Hoover is gonna Jadgar Hoover, right. But
there's this is I found a piece from Tribune magazine

(54:47):
by Reese Hadley and that was published in twenty twenty
one that sort of unpacks the ways. There's a whole
FBI file for It's a Wonderful Life for being too Communists,
and the reasons that they lay out are very interesting.
The first one is that the quote values or institutions

(55:07):
judge to be particularly anti American or pro communist interesting
are glorified in a movie examples failure, depravity, the common man,
the collective, and the FBI hate that we can't be
having that in a movie.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Horrible.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Another reason the FBI had an issue with this movie.
They argued that the movie may have portrayed mister Potter
as quote following the rules as laid down by the
state bank examiners in connection with making loans.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
I didn't even understand that sentence, the.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
FBI was like, what's wrong with predatory loans? Oh?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Okay, that's what this country was built on.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
It, It's true, okay. And then finally the FBI said
that It's a Wonderful Life is a problem because it
espoused quote values or institutions judged to be particularly American
are smeared or presented as evil in a movie. Examples
the free enterprise system, industrialist wealth, the profit motive, success,

(56:22):
the independent man. Wow, And that like speaks to basically
everything I like about this very same is that is
and I know we'll talk about it, but like the
whole the message of this movie that I like is
encouraging people to work in favor of their collective versus

(56:43):
the individual, which I think is really cool and like
not something you see often, especially in American movies. But
it's it's interesting that this movie specifically was taken down
for being potentially communist because both Jimmy Stewart and Frank
Capra were lifelong Republicans, hugely Jimmy Stewart had just I mean,

(57:07):
Jimmy Stewart served in World War Two and wasn't sure
if he was going to come back to a movie
career and Frank Capra, who has a very very interesting background.
He immigrated from Italy when he was very young. He
worked his way up in the movie industry and then
just kind of got America killed in the way unfortunately

(57:30):
people do. And even though his movies were most popular
during the Roosevelt era and are very associated with that era,
he was a lifelong Republican to the point where he
skewed fascistic where he was, you know, he worked with
Dalton Trumbo, but he was also like, what about this
Mussolini guy, seems like he has some good ideas. I'm

(57:55):
truly like, I'm not being I'm not you know, it's
interesting he came like his most famous movies I think
would be it Happened one Night, mister Smith goes to Washington,
also with Jimmy Stewart and this movie. And in spite
of you know, he came to the US as an

(58:15):
immigrant and then he kind of became a nationalist over time,
as did Jimmy Stewart. And so the main two creative
voices in this movie are very far from communists. And
I mean that as an insult, but it's just like
this weird back and forth because I like that FBI

(58:36):
File a lot because they're like, why is this movie awesome?
Let's kill them. It's just like a weird kind of
web because it's like you, I think that the FBI
File is very funny and that those values are very
clear in the movie. But then the fact that the
director has praised Mussolini, just like, what do we do

(58:57):
in this? But that I guess from what I've gathered,
And I'm not a Frank Capra expert by any means,
but that Frank Capra, who skewed pretty right, I mean Mussolini, Yeah,
would most often collaborate with leftist writers and they would
end up with this fucking weirdo in between ay things

(59:21):
that I feel like is clear and it's a wonderful life.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah. Number one, I hate Jimmy Stewart even more now
I did not know that he was a Republican. Number two.
So one of the credited writers, Francis Goodrich, who is
a woman nor oh gosh. She worked on a draft
of this script with her husband Albert Hackett, another credited writer,

(59:49):
but there was a pretty big dispute between them and
Frank Capra. So Francis Goodrich is quoted as calling Capra
a horrid man and a very arrogant son of a bitch.
So we love to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
We love to see pro Misolini people characterized that way.
So that's the background. Yeah for the movie. Should we
start by talking about miss Mary Bailey?

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Let's do it? Okay, So what do we know about her?

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Well, it's a short list.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, we know that she is his wife. We know
that she has loved George Bailey ever since she was
a child for what reasons, I don't know. She is
a talented artist and interior decorator.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
This is something that like I think is really I mean,
so much of Mary Bailey's story is erased in this
in spite of the fact that she does have like
a pretty significant like she goes through a lot, but
you just don't see any of it, including she goes
through a full extreme home makeover of this busted ass

(01:01:07):
house that she's like, we are reclaiming this house that
is broken and we are a part of the problem
because we were throwing rocks at it, and she fixes
the entire house over the course of years. She does
like what happens on ABC every week night, and we
don't see any of it. I mean, because I feel
like the labor that Mary does is assumed that this

(01:01:29):
is just what a woman does, and so it goes
unseen and praised, unacknowledged. But she's doing a fucking lot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
She's doing a lot. But the main thing we know
about that, as far as like fixing up the house,
is that George is really ungrateful about it, because he's
screams and has a whole monologue about how he hates
this house and it's cold and drafty and all of that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Well, she didn't. I Well, that's the other thing, because Mary,
as far as we know, like Mary, they grow up together.
I think she's the age of Harry, his younger brother,
so she's like about four years younger than him, which
is very confusing when he's forty and she's twenty three,
and you're like, I don't know, is this okay?

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
But you know, like she she goes to college in
I think New York.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Ever heard of it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
She has a whole sex in the City era. Yeah,
and we don't hear about fucking any of it. We
don't know what she majored in. And we only know
because I feel like the character of Mary in a
way that I find frustrating because I like her, but
she ultimately always comes down to these very like American

(01:02:43):
white feminine values of the post war era, which is like, Okay,
you had your moment, you got to get some education,
you got to run the USO for a little bit,
and now you know it should be your priority to
settle down to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Be a wife and a mother.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
And that's right. And we don't know about her ambitions
beyond that, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
So yeah, I feel like she's done a very big
disservice by the narrative and also by the character of
George Bailey.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
I would like to wait, wait, wait, m M. I
want to talk about an important character, Billy Brick.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Okay, because I just.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Was like ranking the most important characters to me that
I wanted to talk about versus Mary. The second was
the Crow. Oh do you know about the Crow? Okay, Okay,
you guys, I have a slideshow presentation I would like
to do. It's about Jimmy the Raven if we can

(01:03:45):
get him up. Bokay, wow, Jimmy the Raven feminist ally
or agent of patriarchy. Now, Caitlin, let's start it like
a by cast episode. What was your experience with Jimmy
the Raven.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I had never seen him before.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Oh yousilly podcast host Jimmy the Raven is the most
famous movie bird of all time. I also didn't know
this before three days ago. But no, Jimmy the Raven
is very famous movie bird. One of his most famous,

(01:04:28):
but not even his most famous appearance is in It's
a Wonderful Life. Let's go to the next slide. We
see here Vincent Price with Jimmy and a movie that
he is co starring in. It's called The Raven.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Uh, he's an icon. He's a legend. Did you know
that ravens lived thirty years? Because I didn't. His movie
career spanned eighteen years. So whoa, here's the Okay, someone's
laughing at the lifespan of a raven. It's not funny.
Here's the thing about Jimmy. Okay. So, Jimmy was born

(01:05:07):
in the Mojave Desert in the nineteen thirties. He was
found by a cowboy named Curly Twyford.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Because of course he was.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Now, don't laugh at the name Curly Twyford. He was
found by a cowboy named Curly Twyford, who was a
world War one veteran who decided that he was going
to make Jimmy a star. Uh huh. Interestingly this worked.

(01:05:40):
You wouldn't expect it, and I was really spread. I
did not know about Jimmy the Raven. And I say
this as a big fan of famous birds. If you
get to the next side, my favorite famous bird is
Andy the Goose, who he's wearing shoes. You'll notice, Yeah,
he was a actually known as Andy de Goose with

(01:06:01):
no feet, but then this guy put shoes on him
and he was Okay. If you go to the next slide,
there's me with Andy de Goose. I drove to Nebraska
a couple of years ago to go visit his grave site.
Andy the Goose. At the time, he was a real
icon in the eighties. If you go to the next slide,

(01:06:23):
there he is riding a bike. He was really special.
And then unfortunately, next slide he was murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
And you can google that on your own time. Next slide,
back to Jimmy the Raven. I just want to plant
Andy the Goose in your mind because he's a fascinating
cultural figure. But we're talking about Jimmy the Raven today.
He was a star, and he was a star from
the beginning. Next slide, here's a news clip jim the Raven,

(01:06:55):
a new flicker Hollywood. One of the hottest stars and
pictures is a quaint character named Jim. He is only
twenty two but has a life expectancy of one hundred
and forty years. Not true? What thirty? Jim, who has
stolen every movie scene in which he has appeared, is
a raven and boys are true. But is Jimmy the

(01:07:19):
Raven a feminist? That's the question I wanted to ask.
He's had a really intense career, you know. Here we
have the next slide, is he was in The Wizard
of Oz. Yeah, playing, you know, a star turning part
as a crow when in fact he is a raven.

Speaker 5 (01:07:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
The next slide, Betty Davis, they're about to fuck. I
don't know if that's obvious, but to me it's obvious.
Next slide him and Vincent Price and he's drinking wine
and cheers to that. The next one, the scariest side

(01:07:58):
of all, in which he is wearing a little soldier's uniform.
And then there's one. There's one more. It's him and
Curly twy Ford and Jimmy witnessed the birth of Curly
Twyford's baby. He became a part of the family. Okay,

(01:08:20):
we're just gonna sort of go through the next few
because there's just so many pictures of Jimmy. Okay, the
next one, and the next one that's him on TV
he's wearing a suit, and then the next one, Okay,
that's him and Jimmy Cagney. Finally, I want to go
to the next slide, because when the question came down
to is Jimmy the Raven a feminist? I was looking

(01:08:44):
into his personal history and he's problematic. Oh no, so
I know, like Mussolini is awesome, not that far. He
wasn't frank, but he was a problematic guy. You know. Jimmy,

(01:09:05):
he was a very trained actor. He could do things
like opening mail, operating a typewriter, letting a cigarette, flipping
magazine pages, and dealing a hand of poker. Okay, Jimmy Stewart, Okay,
this was kind of fun. Okay. In on the set
of It's a Wonderful Life, Jimmy Stewart could not be
called Jimmy because Jimmy the Raven would respond. So he's

(01:09:31):
also a bit of a diva. He's the first Jimmy
in the college sheet.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
I love Jimmy the Ravens so much. He was insured
for ten thousand dollars by the Red Cross question mark.
We don't know why. He got a Presidential Medal of Honor.
Also don't know why.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
Oh and and people like people talked about Jimmy in
ways that we're not always mind.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Curly Twyford, for for example, his father explained that Jimmy
had no fewer than twenty one stand ins, most of
whom were women Ravens, and it has been speculated since
that maybe Jimmy was a woman and that there was

(01:10:23):
gender confusion. There were there was uh, you know, we
don't know because Jimmy's been dead for a hundred years.
But Curly Twyford said, do you guys like this there?
Curly Twyford said, I was like in my bed making this,

(01:10:45):
I'm like, well, people play. I think it's interesting. Okay.
Curly Twyford, who plumped Jimmy's egg from the Mojave Desert,
said Jimmy is a great egotist. He likes variety, and
what he means when he says that is that Jimmy
would have a different woman delivered to his cage every day,

(01:11:09):
and that Jimmy was insatiable sexually.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
I'm sorry, when you say a woman, are you talking
about a female raven or you talking about well when
you say woman.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Betty Davis, did you go to his cage?

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
I know that human women don't have probably I hope
don't have.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
You don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
The use of the word woman when referring to female
ravens was just confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Jimmy needed a different woman in his cage every day.
I mean, he was an polyamorous king, exactly, exactly. Maybe
he was simply ahead of his time, but at the
time he was referred to as an egotist in a diva.
He also wouldn't eat meat strips delivered to him after
he'd been in movies for a while because again because

(01:12:03):
they said he was going to live for one hundred
and forty years. They're like, Jimmy was in over a
thousand movies. He was in thirty, okay, but including The
Wizard of Oz and It's a wonderful life. So a
great career. Nonetheless, not meaning to cut down Jimmy, but
by the end of his career, when he was very,
very successful. He wouldn't eat strips of meat that were
delivered to him unless they'd been sprinkled with sugar.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
And one of his human co stars said, I'm disenchanted
by him. I think he's got a star complex. Wow.
Jimmy Stewart said, the Raven is the smartest actor on set.
They don't have to do as many takes for him
as the rest of us, so he's also kind of

(01:12:49):
a genius. He's the Daniel dan Lewis of birds. Frank
Capra was especially a fan, and as we don't like
Frank Capra, however, Jimmy was basically like Scorsese, de Niro,
Frank Capra, Jimmy the Raven. Okay, he's in all of
his movies. It's really bizarre. Ultimately, with Jimmy, I was like,

(01:13:12):
is Jimmy a feminist? You know? It was unclear given
the information I had, Okay, and I'll tell you I
was not able to figure it out. However, the Raven
you see in this scene, that is not Jimmy the Raven.
Oh scandal, That is Coco the Raven. Who's that one

(01:13:34):
of Jimmy's stand ins, Caitlin of course?

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
And so I found this blog from two thousand and
nine brag that is strictly around character actors that have
been forgotten, called the Unsung Joe, that explains who Coco
the Raven is. I'm gonna quote from it. And then
there was Coco. More than a stand in, less than

(01:13:58):
a performer. Coco was a slightly older but less versatile
bird who deputized for Jimmy in those scenes that called
for the presence of a raven, but not for any
of the tricks which Jimmy alone was capable of. The
only drawback that arose from the lack of activity in
Coco's job was a susceptibility for that old actor's complaint

(01:14:21):
cleague eyes. I didn't know about that old actor's complaint.
I'll tell you what it is. Coco would find himself
fascinated by the huge, bright studio lights and would stare
into them, hypnotized until his eyes became inflamed, turning from

(01:14:42):
their inky black to a dark green, whereupon he would
become distressed and curly. Twyford would have to remove him
from the set. He never learned, though he loved those lights.
I love Coco, and I think There's an important scene
in the next line where Coco is present, and it's
the scene in which Uncle Billy is once again banned

(01:15:05):
his job and there is a raven on the desk.
This is not Jimmy the Raven, and don't credit him
as such. That is Coco the Raven, because Coco the
Raven was good at one thing, and that was standing still.
So in conclusion, was Jimmy the Raven and Ally? And
I know you were all wondering that when you walked in.
The answer is final slide, Jimmy a bitch, Justice for Coco. Okay,

(01:15:34):
that's all I have to say for the show. But
if you have anything else to say, feel free. No
I think that I've been working on this for seven months.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Uh yeah, no, I just have a few more things
to say. We are running out of time, but I'll
you know, I'll go through.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
I wouldn't that take twenty five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Look, I have a section called George Bailey and his Crimes.
Allow me starting with exhibit A the robe scene. Yes, yes, exactly. So,
just to recap this a little further, this is the
scene where George and Mary are walking around after the
party they had fallen into the pool. So they put

(01:16:21):
on other clothes and Mary put on a robe and
she's presumably naked underneath. They're walking around, they're flirting. There's
a guy in the neighborhood who is yelling at George
and being like kiss her, and George is like, fine,
I'll kiss her so freaking hard, and then Mary runs

(01:16:41):
away at that, but George was standing on her robe,
so it falls off as she runs away, and now
she's naked, so she hides in the bushes. When George
realizes this and realizes that he can exploit this situation,
he absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
Does immediately until he finds out his father died.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
That's right, because he's like, She's like, please, I beg
you give me my robe back, and he's like no.
She asks him so many times he refuses. She says
she's going to tell his mother and tell the police
parentheses acab.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Well, then he says, you know, I think the police
would be on my side, and you're like, that's kind
of an a cab line because they probably would.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
It would be yes, unfortunately, But the point is she
is like feeling very vulnerable and naked, and he's like,
I'm gonna just like tease you and exploit this situation
in a very cruel awful way.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Well, I think that that the two pivotal moments in
their early relationship are defined by that dynamic. Right where
when they're kids, you can almost write it away by
the fact that Mary leans over he says, George, you know,

(01:18:00):
but we know because he cannot hear out of that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Ear, he cannot hear her.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
And so when he comes up and says I'm gonna
have a harem, he's just being weird and he's not,
you know, being necessarily antagonistic. But that scene that you're
describing where he is actively taking advantage of power over
but then also in the scene immediately before cut to
them getting married, I think that dynamic is equally present.

(01:18:25):
Like Mary's agency is cut out of this narrative at
every possible opportunity. It's cut up by the fact that
she's hiding in a bush naked. It's cut out by
the fact that her mother is watching, her boyfriend is
on the phone, and George has her in his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Yeah, I've broken down that scene as well, where so
he I don't know why he's in a bad mood,
he's just kind of a bad guy. Sorry, but he's like,
you know, lumbering around all pissed off, and he clearly
deliberately goes over to Mary's house to try to run
into her, but he acts like he was just passing by. Well.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
He also makes it very clear that she was not
his first choice because he tries to hook up with
her friend, but then gets annoyed when her friend doesn't
want to climb a mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Right yeah, So he's like, oh, I guess a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Little okay girl who's not gonna climb a mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
You're like, okay, So and he goes over to Mary.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Got a bumble, I can't and he keeps, well, Jamie,
this was pre bumble, just like it was pre venmo.
Nothing to come in.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
So he goes over to Mary's house and he keeps
being like, I don't even know why I'm here. I
wasn't even planning to come here, even though like it
was very a very deliberate choice on his part. Mary
is trying to give him a warm welcome. She like
displays the little drawing she made for him. He doesn't
like notice or appreciate anything that she has done. He

(01:19:57):
spends the whole interaction just like feeling very so for
himself and being a complete asshole. Then he's jealous that
that other guy, Sam calls and is like interested in Mary,
so he storms out. He comes back in Sam is
like what about plastics? And then George throws a fit.
He grabs Mary. He says, I don't care about plastics

(01:20:20):
and I don't want to get married to anyone ever.
Do you understand that smash cut to them getting married,
So that's Bill, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
He also like there is a forcible kiss because she's crying.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
She's crying, she's crying of how mean he's being.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
I just I yeah, I mean I there comes a
point in that dynamic where I don't even understand what's
going on, because with Mary it does. It's just like
her agency is always undercut by at least one person
in the scene, but often multiple people. In this scene,
the scene right before they get married, you know, it's

(01:20:57):
it is clear that Mary is interested in George, but
he's only terrible to her. In that same scene, we
know that she's gone to college, but we are not
allowed to know anything other than the thing that I've
seen repeatedly written about with Mary and how I feel
like her character plays out, is that like, Okay, fine,
she went to college, she's a modern woman, but ultimately

(01:21:19):
she just wants to be a mother in her hometown,
which is not an inherently bad thing, but I feel
like it was reinforcing what the encouraged norm was at
that time for a woman who had education, especially you know,
coming out of World War Two, where women for the
first time had just been encouraged to be working and

(01:21:40):
encouraged to be out there. And it because this movie
coming out in nineteen forty six feels really prescient because
it's like, Okay, let's reel it in, you know, like
know your role. And I feel like the way that
that white womanhood specifically moved ahead with Donna Reed sort
of at the helm the nineteen fifties. And that's not

(01:22:01):
even a slight to Donna Reed, because it's not her fault,
but her show, I feel like, is the most commonly
cited in terms of like what a white housewife was
perceived as being in the nineteen fifties, in spite of
the fact that behind the scenes she was producing her
own show and doing all of these things that were
not encouraged for women to do. To perpetuate this view,

(01:22:24):
it's just I don't know, it's really it's really really frustrating,
especially because at the end of the movie, it's Mary
who pulls the community together to give George this experience
that makes him want to live again. And so we
have this whole sequence with Clarence that is impactful. It's

(01:22:46):
very well staged, you know, Like I don't want to
take that away from fans of the movie, but everything
that happens off screen is Mary and his family pulling
together the community to reward you with the final shot
of the movie, right, Mary does all of that, and
I feel like that really goes underappreciated and under examined.

(01:23:07):
But she did all that shit. She did so much.
I mean, she like renovated a mansion.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
And he is so ungrateful about it, he hates it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
And then she's she like pulls him off the edge.
And that is also unacknowledged by the plot. It's made
to seem like, well, Clarence got his wings and that's
why George, you know, believes in life again. But it's
like Mary did all the fucking organizing to make this happen,
and she's cut out of so many scenes earlier where
it like, I feel like it's always presented as or

(01:23:37):
it's most commonly presented in the movie as like George
gave away all of his money to the community from
his wedding and that's all him, him, him, and it's
like that's Mary's money as well. Yeah, And she is
not invited into those scenes. She's not and I think
those scenes would be improved by her presence, and she's

(01:23:58):
like not even welcome until the end where George is like, oh,
where the fuck is Mary at? And you're like, you
left her outside? Man? You know, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Yeah. And then there's like there's two other scenes where
George in a pretty major way, is being extremely cruel
to a loved one. There's the scene where he's like
screaming at Uncle Billy after he's lost the money, and
then there's the Christmas Eve scene where George comes home
after the money has been lost and he is just

(01:24:29):
being extremely cruel to his wife and his children, and
then he storms out. So when George Bailey is being
pleasant in the movie, which does happen occasionally, it's almost
always to his customers. When he's being awful, it's almost
always to his family member or to mister Potter. So

(01:24:51):
he basically treats his family the same way he treats
the villain of the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
Movie, which I don't like. And it's because like the
closest I can get to playing Devil's advocate, there is
like the way that George's life is shown is so
inconsistent that you see him at his worst a lot, yea,
and so he does not come off well as like,
I don't understand why people are like this guy's awesome.

(01:25:17):
We're like, well, I've seen him yelling as much as
I've seen him being nice, Right, I don't know. I
mean the things that I know, we are running out
of time. The things that I think this movie does
very well, or at least very well for nineteen forty
six is the commentary on collectiveness and on individualism, like

(01:25:42):
American individualism, which is something that is very very much
pushed to this day, to our detriment to working towards
the collective. I think that like part of what makes
this movie work for me, in spite of its many,
many many flaws, down to Capra being like Mussolini. What
we think is the core idea of you know, the

(01:26:06):
American dream is inherently rarely achievable, and George's life is
not valueless because he spent it making sacrifices for his community.
I think that's a really beautiful idea. It's a complicated idea,
and we could talk about it more. I mean the scenes.
I literally broke down my George discussion into like scenes

(01:26:30):
I liked Georgian versus scenes I don't ye scenes I
don't most of them with his wife he goes out
of the way to like beret female teacher on the phone, Like, yes,
he clearly does not have a lot of respect for women,
not to mention that Mary is barely characterized. And then

(01:26:50):
the two mothers we see in this movie, Mary's and George's.
Their only interest is husband, and then our mad children
getting married. That's all the scenes I liked Georgian and
were the ones that were more politically minded and so
it like ultimately, I was like, Wow, he's like very
dsa bro coded Yeah, like where his politics are awesome,

(01:27:12):
but he hates women.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Some scenes I.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
Like Georgian and I say that as a Doe's paying member. Okay, no,
but I'm right. And scenes I like Georgian include when
he's a kid, and he defends his dad against Potter.
The scene where he his I mean, like, he does
make a series of sacrifices in order to hold some

(01:27:41):
like to sort of hold the line to prevent capitalism
from completely demolishing his hometown. That is sort of what
he's doing throughout. And there's a scene where he i
mean early on where he just fucking mows Potter down
and tells him that he's treating people like their cattle,

(01:28:02):
and like, I mean that that's really really powerful, and
as well as when he turns down Potter for taking
you know, the sellout contract for like you could live
comfortably forever if you just shut the fuck up about
housing people who don't have money, and like, I think
that that is like a really cool, core minded thing.

(01:28:23):
As well as the fact that his community in the
scenes that we see them in are also like of
the same mind, where when George is like, hey, you know,
Potter is gonna you know, he's offering you money now,
but he is buying you and you will be fucked
in the long term, and they listen to each other
and they collectively decide we're not going to be okay
with this, And then at the end, they pay it

(01:28:45):
forward to George because of Mary, which no one cares about.
So I think that like politically it's a really cool
movie and everything else basically not as much.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
Yes, I don't know why I did an evil laugh there,
but anyway, so we have to wrap up. There's more
to talk about, but you'll just have to listen to
the episode because we will just record some pickups later. Yeah,
and here are those pickups.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
So look at us future us.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
I know it sounds. It reminds me of YouTubers from
like we should be. I guess we are wearing you know,
like when you're watching a YouTuber and then they add
in a note when they're editing and they're wearing a
hoodie and they're like, hey future mom, me here, And
I just wanted to add a note. It's what we're doing.
That's nice. Yes, no offense to YouTubers, but they all

(01:29:45):
do it anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Okay, so just a few things that we didn't have
time for in the live show, and so first I
just want to kind of we already hinted at this
a little bit and made a few references, but just
wanted to play little more attention to the way the
movie frames his community, his town, George's town, you know,
New Bedford, which actually becomes Pottersville, right if George had

(01:30:12):
never existed, and just sort of like the implications there, Right,
it's like, look how unsavory this town is. I feel
like Violet is implied to be a sex worker of
some kind. Yeah, did you get that sense too?

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
I did as well, or like in as explicit a
way that you could at that time. Yeah, I noticed,
and this was something that was supported in I guess
like a round table talk that I encountered from Smithsonian magazine.
Ooh ever heard of it about? Yeah, the implications of Pottersfield,

(01:30:48):
because as we said at the show, Pottersville seems like
kind of a good time for a weekend. But I think, yeah,
like the signifiers and like speaking to the in spite
of you know, this movie very much having its moments,
there is like an element of rigid like rigidity in
terms of like what is considered appropriate society and what isn't.

(01:31:08):
And it feels like this that Pottersville is associating it
with sin capitalism. Well, well, it's like TV is like
two things where it's like explicitly capitalistic, which I which
is as close as I could get to understanding. But yeah,
it's like sin meeting sex work and jazz music, which
seems like proximity to blackness and like and that is

(01:31:32):
let me just pull up the quote I have here
from this piece that was compiled by Christopher Wilson. Quote
Capra's hints at the degradation of the town come in
the form of the black music jazz heard pouring out
of the taverns in Diamond dance halls. Higgins, one of
the roundtable participants, also noted that Mary's fate as an

(01:31:55):
old maid in this alternative universe, portrayed as hideous and sad,
is presented as perfectly fine, appropriate and desirable for Annie
in the real world. Unquote right, It's a world where
things that are completely normal and should be socially accepted
are presented as a dystopia, which is a sex work

(01:32:16):
and jazz and being a single woman over thirty and
having a nice time with your life exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Yeah. So again with like Violet implied, because I think
you see her coming out of a strip club or
something that's implied to be a strip club. It's just
all very sex worker shamey. It's shamy of yeah, like
unmarried women, and of course, like that reflects the values
of the time. And is it strange, you know, to

(01:32:48):
be applying a like twenty twenty three lens to a
nineteen forty six movie. Sure, but but I.

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
Feel like it's it's like I get frustrated when, like
in caunturing that criticism of like, well, what did you
expect it's nineteen forty six. It's like, yeah, we're not
saying we expected better of nineteen forty six, but it's
like we're having it's still I think the more relevant
discussion is it's still wildly popular in twenty twenty three,

(01:33:15):
and that's why it's the relevant discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
You know, yeah, yeah, these archaic and shamy and patriarchal
values haven't gone away, no, so and you know they
were perpetuated by movies like this and reinforced by movies
like this, and those ideals have lasted for.

Speaker 3 (01:33:35):
Millennia, and so are the I mean, I think we
talked about this a fair amount during the live show.
But also I think that the more the more, like
the cooler areas of this movie, which is like the
idea of it being a life well lived to work
for your community and serve your community instead of working

(01:33:59):
towards individualistic and personal gained, which is such an inherently
American value that the bottom falls out of all the
fucking time. And that's not to say I mean, I
think that it's I kind of like where it falls,
because the takeaway from George's experience with Clarence is like

(01:34:20):
the best message that the movie has. Of course, this
is only a message that is accessible by a white guy,
even though he's a white guy that's suffering a lot
of poverty and personal distress. Like that's I don't mean
to discount that, but you know that the narrative is
only accessible to him, not Mary, who has organized and

(01:34:44):
made this all fucking possible. He wouldn't have a damn
roof over his head, and he wouldn't have the money
if it wasn't for Mary. We know this, But I
think that it being important that George worked for his
community and served as community, and that presenting it that
they're also like, it's not devaluing his life as an individual,

(01:35:06):
because that's the whole clearance thing is that like, you
as an individual are an important part of your community,
and without you very passively over emphasizing George's importance. But
the message, the message a lot, I think, right, like,
but the message feels relevant. That's like one of the

(01:35:27):
more I think that's my guess of like why this
movie is other than just being you know, really pummeled
over the head. If you live in the US, I
understand why that message is still really powerful, that like you,
that serving the collective is valuable, and that you are
a valuable part of that collective.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
That's beautiful, and that's fine if a movie, you know,
kind of like exaggerates that. But the movie, like especially
that section it credits George for like saving women, all
the women in the town from these quo unquote horrible
fates of you know, sex work and being a quote
unquote old maid who's a librarian, who's so undesirable because

(01:36:09):
she wears glasst.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
Like and that also feels like I don't know. I
mean we've talked about this within period pieces too, where
like obviously we can't apply a twenty twenty three lens
to nineteen forty six. But I think even so, if like,
if this movie had any interest in Mary, it could

(01:36:32):
present her. I mean, I think it's very like flat
in the way that her being a quote unquote old
maid and wearing Warby Parker glasses is presented where it's
like the value of the movie is that happening to
you is bad, Whereas I think there's a way to
present it of like, that's what happens to her, that's
her life, that's her choice. She's happy with it, but

(01:36:53):
society isn't happy with her, you know. And I think
that there's a way to present a historical reality of
the mid twentieth century, which is that, you know, especially
post World War Two, it totally makes sense we're like
heading towards one of the most sort of rigid housewife
eras in the US. It makes sense that you would

(01:37:13):
be treated poorly for wanting to have an independent life.
But this movie doesn't show any shade of gray. It's
just like, yeah, this happens to you. You're fucked. So
thank god George Bailey was born. And you're like, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
Right, because there were movies, like classic Hollywood movies from
this era that do examine and like subvert gender roles
and sexism and patriarchal values, but this movie just simply
is not one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
It's just like presents it as fact.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's rather frustrating. Let's talk about Annie,
yes please. So she is the I believe, only person
of color in the entire movie with any kind of
speaking role, and just kind of the only person of
color you see on screen period.

Speaker 3 (01:38:08):
There are a few background actors who are people of color,
but it's certainly the only speaking role by a country mile.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
Yes, she's played by Lillian Randolph. So she is the
character who works for the Bailey family as like a
maid or a housekeeper. So she's in a very you know,
stereotypical role for black actors to be in. At this time,
roles for black actors were often relegated to service roles

(01:38:38):
helping white people, and that's also a trend that continues
still to this day. Still.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Yeah, so I think that she's she's also presented as
I mean, she's presented as comic relief, yes, and speaking
to like Lilian Randolph's performance great. And I was reading
more about Lillian Randolph and it she played the comedic
relief role many many times because those were the only

(01:39:07):
roles that were made available to her throughout her career,
and she does it incredibly well. She's clearly a very
talented actor.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
She has all the best lines in the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Well, and I think if they're not delivered with her performance,
they would be weird. But like she makes it work
and she's not given really anything to work with. But yeah,
I mean, she's presented as the help, she is presented
as the comic relief, and she's also presented as less
smart than the people that she works for. Where I mean,

(01:39:40):
the first exchange she has is with George's mother, who,
as we talked about in the live show, also has
nothing to do other than my husband, my son, my husband,
my son. Right, yeah, but one of the few exchanges
they have is I mean, it's so well presented by
Annie that you're like, I'm on Annie's side, but it's
like presented that like she doesn't understand and why it

(01:40:03):
because she says something like the only girl children, and
you're like, George.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
And Harry are upstairs rough housing, even though they're like
adults by this point.

Speaker 3 (01:40:13):
It sounds like they're well they're both forty, but you're like, oh,
I guess you're eighteen. I know, I know, but you're
still like it's distracting, it's distracting.

Speaker 2 (01:40:24):
Anyway, they're making a lot of commotion and Annie is like,
you know, hitting the broom against the roof, and then
she says something like, oh, this is why all children
should be girls. And then missus Bailey responds with something like,
but if all children were girls, then never mind. Is if,
like I think, Annie doesn't understand it, like procreation works

(01:40:46):
like Annie.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
In the world of the scene, it's delivered as if
she is making a joke and the mom doesn't get it.
But it doesn't seem like it's written that way because
the whole movie is written so disrespectfully towards her. And
then shortly after we see her assaulted by Harry, and
that's presented as a joke too. I went back to
the original script to see if that was in the

(01:41:07):
original script, and Dick was it says quote as he
pushes her through the kitchen door, he slaps her fanny,
she screams. The noise is cut off by the swinging door,
like it's presented as a button to a scene. Yeah,
so that is also and she's I mean, not the
only woman in the movie to be sexually harassed. I

(01:41:31):
think that that is a pretty evenly. That is an
evenly distributed crime throughout the movie. But it's I mean,
with a character who is on screen for all but
two minutes only in service to white characters and as
comic relief, she still is sexually assaulted on screen as
a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:41:51):
Horrifying. She does have my favorite line of the movie
at the very end, when all the community are like
pitching in and giving money to the Bailey family, she says,
I've been saving this money for a divorce, but you
and then like you can have it though, And I'm like, okay,
first of all, Annie, keep your money, don't give it

(01:42:12):
to George Bailey.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
Any get your damn divorce. Whatever he did, whatever he did,
he's a dog.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
I read it as like she doesn't even have a
partner yet. She's the way that some people will be like, oh,
I'm saving up for a wedding. She just like knows
that inevitably she will get divorced. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:42:31):
I thought she was married. Well that speaks to how
little we know about this character. We don't know if
she's got a husband, we don't know anything about her.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
Yeah, it reminds me of the doctor Ian Malcolm quote
from Jurassic Park when he says, oh, I'm always on
the lookout for a future ex missus Malcolm, and I'm like, yeah,
breakups happen, and we all know it anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
You're prey, you're preve it's true. And then we I
guess we didn't really get to talk about Violet very
much because we just we didn't have a lot. We
were just goofing around so much you wouldn't understand. But
speaking to Violet, I mean another character we don't get
a lot of screen time with. She does get certainly

(01:43:13):
more of an arc than Annie does, but it's a
very charged arc where she's presented as I feel like
it is kind of a Madonna horror situation that we're
presented with.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
Yeah, she's like the quote unquote town fluozy.

Speaker 3 (01:43:30):
She's Samantha Jones coded. She's like really the Samantha Jones
of New Bedford and good for her and good for
Hut and so she's I think the way that Platt
treats her as very very inconsistent to me, because it's
clear that Mary is presented as the you know, angelic

(01:43:51):
alternative to a woman like Violet. However, they are friends
and they as far as I can tell, remain friends,
although we don't. We would certainly never scene with them together.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Well that's the thing. They're friends or maybe even kind
of friend of these as children. Yeah, but we don't
because we don't see them in any scenes together as
an adult, we have no way of knowing if they've
actually remained friends.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
That's true, and that also demonstrates how disinterested the plot
is in Mary, which we already know. Yeah, when we
see Violet presented as an adult, I mean, she's really
slaying in a lot of these scenes. Jimmy Stewart George
is always like kind of leering at her in certain
like towards the beginning of the movie, like he goes

(01:44:35):
Hammahammadhamana when she walks past the car, she gives a
great one liner keeps walking. This in a run of
scenes that really troubles me. It's the scene first where
I think it's a holiday party, and as we discussed,
Jimmy Stewart does kiss his mommy on the mouth hard.

(01:44:57):
During that conversation, she's talking about the one thing that's
on her mind, which is her son, and she is like,
why don't you marry Mary? And he's like I don't
want to. And then he's like, but I'm gonna go
fuck tonight is basically the takeaway. And he stops away,
being like I'm gonna go fuck mom, and she's like

(01:45:19):
you kids, and I'm like, this sucks, this is weird.
And then he goes into town spots Violet. She is
interested in him. Arguably the whole movie. You're just like,
why didn't you two get together? I think it bumps
me up because it presents Violet as kind of a floozy,
but also like whatever. They're both horny and walking around,

(01:45:43):
so sure, yeah, have sex. But and then he wants
her to climb a mountain and she's like what no,
and then he yells at her, which is a very
george thing to do experience slight resistance from a woman specifically,
and starts screaming at her.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
He's so fragile. Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
He does that and stops away, as he does in
many scenes with women. Yes, and then we see him
go to Mary's house and have a scene we talked
about in the live show, but like it not only
doesn't paint a flattering picture of Violet, because I think
we're supposed to leave that scene with a negative picture
of Violet, like she doesn't get him right, you know.

(01:46:25):
And then it also presents Mary as not his first choice,
and that sucks for a character that we like, like
it sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
Well, well, then I think she would be his first choice,
except that again because of his fragility, he's like, well,
I can't Mary belongs to another man. She should belong
to me. But Sarah right, it's already staked his claim, right.

Speaker 3 (01:46:52):
And it's like, you know, in a monogamous relationship, sure,
don't actively pursue someone else's partner, but also don't treat
them cruelly because you're attracted to them. That is uh,
what most men do, and worse and so much worse.
And then at the end with Violet, we get a
very again weirdly already seed with her and George, but

(01:47:15):
you do get some closure that is taken back. You
think you're about to get a cool arc where she
goes to George for a loan, a building and loan.
We're not sure.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
I think she doesn't intend to build because she's moving
to New York City.

Speaker 3 (01:47:30):
I ever heard of it in a move I was
not expecting from this story. George is very supportive of that,
and he's like, yeah, good, get the fuck out of here.
Sucks here, best of luck. Weird kiss fine, not even
on the he kisses his mom on the lips, but
well he's married by that. I was like, she shouldn't

(01:47:50):
kiss her on the lips, but like a long, lingering kiss.
And there's like a kiss mark left on his cheek.
And then the bank inspector's there and he's like, hello,
I've come here to arrest you. But anyways, like that
for me would have been great closure for Violet. She
gets out, but instead we first of we first see

(01:48:12):
the flash forward where oh no, if George wasn't born,
she might be a sex worker, which is implied by
the movie as the worst thing that could happen to someone.
And then in the present day by the end, she
comes back and is like, actually, I've decided to stay,
and you're like a fate worse than death.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
We don't know why she decided to stay. We don't
know what she was intending to do in New York
or why she was moving again. She's characterized so little
beyond just like the very tropy. Oh she's the you know, hot,
busty blonde who walks around town and all the men
like Wolf whistle at her like that's just the trope

(01:48:55):
that she adheres to and she's given no interior life
or interests or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:02):
Yeah, it sucks, And I feel like that is one
of the clearer presentations of what this movie's values are,
because on one hand, yes, it is a life well
lived to serve your community. But I feel like there
is an undertone of this that is like city folks
are sinful, don't go there, you know, never leave the
place you were born in, which erases so many reasons

(01:49:26):
why you would leave, which in violence case might be
because everyone treats her like shit. So there's that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:35):
There's that I want to talk really or just mention
really the There's another female character who hasn't come up yet,
and it's cousin Tilly, who works at the Building and Loan.
She's George's cousin, presumably Uncle Billy's daughter, not that you
really ever see them interact.

Speaker 3 (01:49:51):
She also calls him uncle Billy.

Speaker 2 (01:49:53):
Oh so oh why is that?

Speaker 4 (01:49:56):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:49:57):
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
I think that's his government name because everyone part.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Her first name, uncle, last name Billy name.

Speaker 5 (01:50:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Also that means his name is Billy Bailey.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
That's fun. I love him. I love him and his
tiny brain and his little squirrel, his little squirrel and.

Speaker 2 (01:50:16):
His little you know, strings around his fingers so that
he doesn't forget things, but he still forgets them all
the time. Love that anyway. Cousin Tilly, she has like
three lines in the movie, and I mean justice for Tilly,
I guess, is what I'm saying. Yeah, because she's another
person we don't know anything about.

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
I'm ashamed. I didn't even remember, Like she's not I
didn't even though it's like, yeah, she's absolutely, she sure
is there and she has a whole story that we
don't know about, the fault thing that we alluded to
in the live show. But it's good to have noted
explicitly is that we do have in mister Potter. And

(01:50:56):
also how distracting is it to have a character named
Harry and a guy named mister Potter in the same movie.
His name's Henry Potter. His little truck says ahe Potter,
and you're like, this sucks. Anyways, they should have known
that in the future something terrible would happen. But mister

(01:51:20):
Potter is a disabled character and We've talked about this
on the show many times of how people with disabilities
are extremely frequently coded in fiction and in movies by
extension as inherently villainous. Yes, and the counterpoint to that,
I think in this movie would be that George himself

(01:51:41):
has a disability. He can't hear out of one ear
because of an accident when he was a kid, and
it is explicitly stated in the movie that that disability
prevents him from serving in the military. So I feel
like the at very least, while that trope is present,
our hero who's an asshole, also has a disability, and

(01:52:04):
it is not presented. It's presented in a very different
way than mister Patters.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
Yes, that's true, but the fact remains that the movie
does attribute a disability to the villain. The villain who
is played by Lionel Barrymore, who is the great uncle
of Drew Barrymore.

Speaker 3 (01:52:26):
Wow, iconic strike disrespect her well anyways, No, but it's
that's a whole other story because if I'm remembering correctly,
the Barrymore family in general has been very very good
historically of respecting strikes. So it was a noted, you know,
step away from Barrymore family values for Drew to be

(01:52:49):
a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (01:52:49):
Like that, what the hell Drew?

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
Well anything else?

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
I just I don't think this got brought up in
the live show. But in the Christmas Eve scene when
George is absolutely throwing a fit and not communicating to
his I understand why he wouldn't tell his children this maybe,
but why would he not tell his why his wife?

(01:53:16):
What had happened like this? This missing money? He just
comes in acts like a complete terror. She's like, what's wrong,
what's going on? He does not openly communicate anything to her.
He just screams at her. He says, you call this
a happy family? And then he's like, why do we
have to have all these kids? He says that within

(01:53:36):
earshot of his children, and he says all these other
things that I think we did mention in the live show,
But I just like, how are we supposed to like
this guy? When he screams at Mary tells her that
the house and home that she built for this family,
sure that the house sucks. He hates it, and why

(01:54:00):
did we have all these kids? Saying that within.

Speaker 3 (01:54:03):
You I understand that we are seeing George at the
lowest moment in his life. And I know that theoretically
you do not judge someone from the worst moment of
their life, but he's really swinging for the fences with
being a piece of shit here. He apologizes for it,

(01:54:23):
and then he disappears. He does apologize for it, but
then he disappears.

Speaker 2 (01:54:27):
Well, he apologizes, and then he gets mad again because
his family is like appropriately reacting to how awful he's being.
And then he yells again, and then he leaves, and.

Speaker 3 (01:54:37):
To Mary's credit, she says, why are you torturing the children?
And I was like, thank you, Mary, Why is he
torturing the children? I know that he's at the lowest
part of his life, but I just.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
Come and give him an excuse to be horrible to
his family.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
Well, I'm not suggesting that, I'm just I'm just saying, like,
I think that the issue with his quick to anger
is that we have seen him not at the lowest
moment of his life also quick to anger. It is
not a it is like an escalation of behavior we've
seen from him already. And so that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
Yeah, yes, And I think that is all I had.
Did you have anything else?

Speaker 3 (01:55:18):
No, let's let's return to the stage.

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
Let's do it. Yes, so this brings us to the
Bechdel test. So yeah, we're gonna go back to the
live show and see if this movie passes the Bechdel test.

Speaker 3 (01:55:36):
No, there's no, it definitely doesn't. The only scenes we
get are between Mary and her friend and they're like,
are boys cools? The answer?

Speaker 2 (01:55:51):
So well, missus Bailey, George's mom and Annie briefly talk
about how they're going to be old maids. But then
Anne is like, speak for yourself. I'm saving up for
a divorce and I'm happy about it.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
Which is like great, yes, but presumably divorce from a man, yes,
due to the pology of the time. Yeah. Yeah, So
I'm gonna say it doesn't. I mean it doesn't spiritually
pass certainly.

Speaker 2 (01:56:18):
Yeah, I think definitely that one. Yeah. But our nipple
scale the perfect scale, the perfect metric where we rate
the movie based on a scale of zero to five
nipples and examine the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
and I think I have to give the movie. I'm

(01:56:39):
gonna give it one nipple for its like rejection of
the capitalist ideas ideals that mister Potter is projecting. And
everyone's like, no, it's actually awesome if we're a community
and we like band together and say boo to you,
mister capital because, like mister Potter, is capitalism the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:57:02):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
In any case, I like, from a class perspective, I
think this movie is pretty cool. From an everything else perspective,
I don't think it's very cool. And George Bailey is
not nice to his wife. His wife, so I'm only
giving it one nipple the end, and I'll give it

(01:57:23):
to I'll give it to Annie, who is played by
Lillian Randolph.

Speaker 3 (01:57:32):
I'm gonna, I'll meet you. I'll give you. I'll give
it one nipple. Yeah, I think this movie for women
is not good for women. Is is maybe in fact
bad and reinforcing a lot of negative stereotizes women at
the time, which is that when your husband is on screen,
get out of the scene. I don't care for that,

(01:57:57):
and that happens in almost every scene in this movie. However,
I agree with you. I mean, I think that the
class politics of this movie are at least in step with,
if not ahead of its time, in spite of the
politics of the director and the star, which feels like
really interesting. And I think that like it's endured for

(01:58:18):
a reason. I think that it is really nice to
have classics in American canon that are not rooted in
individualism and like really remove themselves from the whole idea
of the hero's journey. Where like, if there's anyone that
goes through a hero's journey in this story, it's George's brother,

(01:58:39):
and you don't see any of it where he goes
from humble beginnings to being a war hero and going
through all this stuff. You don't see that. You see
his brother who is actively remaining kind of trapped in
the class and the place that he is born in.
And like, I think that there's a lot of value
to that, and there's a lot of value to being
to a preciating that and to seeing the value in that,

(01:59:02):
because I think that you know, like in most movies
and a lot of media in the Western world, you're
encouraged to only see success in your life as having
ascended in the traditional sense, and that the idea of
remaining within your community and serving your community is not

(01:59:23):
valued at the same rate. And I think that you know,
It's a wonderful life does that on its face, and
that's really nice. It does that for George. It does
not do that for Mary, even though she's doing the
same shit and it's all offscreen, and for some reason
they're like, what if there was an old ass angeling
Tom Sawyer, you know, like Mary is doing the same
thing the whole movie, but they just don't want to

(01:59:46):
show that. At its core, I think that the movie
has a good message. I'll give it one nipple. It's
bad for women, it's bad for people who aren't white,
and they're and I'm going to give it to Jimmy
the Rain and obviously.

Speaker 2 (02:00:01):
Okay, yeah, and Coco almost split it with Jimmy and Coke. Okay,
do we end the show now?

Speaker 3 (02:00:12):
I think I feel like, well, yeah, I mean, I
just I just feel like Kaitlyn, Like I was wondering
as I was watching this movie with Clarence the flop angel. Yeah,
what would the world be like without the Bechtel casts?

Speaker 2 (02:00:25):
Oh, what would the world be like without the Bechdel cast?

Speaker 3 (02:00:29):
Certainly we don't have anything prepared.

Speaker 2 (02:00:32):
Well, I was thinking about, wait, actually.

Speaker 3 (02:00:36):
Wait that Dax, could you softly play Dominic the donkey?
Thank you so much? Just as we discussed this important topic.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
Uh huh, Okay, So I was thinking about this too,
and uh, if the Bechdel Cast had never existed, what
would the world be like. Well, first of all, Michael
Bay would be President of the United States of America.

Speaker 3 (02:01:03):
That is, you're so right, you know, you're so right.
I was thinking that if the Bechdel Cast didn't exist,
Alfred Molina would never have learned what an MRA meant
true and he would have gone down that path himself.
Oh wow, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
I was thinking if the Bechdel Cast never existed that
the Minion's Kevin, Bob, and Stewart, Yeah, would have broken
up and we wouldn't have been there to get them
back together.

Speaker 3 (02:01:39):
I was thinking that in a world without the Bechdel Cast,
I would have ended up working at the job I
was working at when we started the Bechdel Cast, which
was as a fact checker at Playboy magazine Question Work,
and I would have worked there forever, and I would
have married Hugh Hefner and I would have killed him
instead of just him dying. Wow, that would have been

(02:02:03):
so scary if that happened.

Speaker 2 (02:02:05):
Yeah, I'm glad it didn't. And also, I think that
if the Bechdel Cast had never existed that James Cameron
would have never directed Titanic because he specifically made it
for Jamie and myself. Yeah, twenty years before we started
the podcast, and that's what the world there would be

(02:02:26):
no Titanic. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (02:02:28):
And in conclusion, I would like to say in a
room without the Bechdel cast and then I just wrote
in asterisk Manian joke as risk and so would like
to say thanks for coming to the live show.

Speaker 2 (02:02:42):
And that was the episode everyone, Thank you for tuning in.
Thanks once again to everyone who came to the live
show or bought tickets to the stream and watched the stream.
Really appreciate you doing that and supporting live podcasting.

Speaker 3 (02:02:59):
Wow. What is tree? Yeah? And if you enjoyed that
and you live in the following cities San Francisco, Sacramento, Austin, Dallas,
San Diego, We're coming to a venue near you soon.
Check our link tree right now. Tickets to your city
maybe live soon. If not, they will be very soon

(02:03:22):
and we will make a specific post to the feed
when that is the case. The live shows are so fun.
We always do meet and greets afterwards. We have exclusive
march and it's just a great community event I know
of at least two serious relationships that have come out
of meeting at a backtal cash show. It's a great

(02:03:43):
place to meet a friend or a love And also
if you live in LA please come to Santa University
at the Allegion on December twenty first at seven thirty pm.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
That ticket will also be on our link tree. Again
it's just link tree slash Bechtel Cast. And speaking of links,
you can click on the link patreon dot com slash
Bechtel Cast and subscribe to our Patreon. This month it's
Zoe Saldonna in Space September.

Speaker 3 (02:04:20):
And we swear that the Matreon's voted for that. The
matrons voted for that to happen. And there's also over
one hundred episode backlog, close to one hundred and fifty.
We've had the patreon going for many years and it's
a blast. We get goofy, We have a nice time.
And also if you want to, you know, gift a

(02:04:40):
subscription to someone for the holidays, it's only five bucks
a month and that gets access to everything.

Speaker 2 (02:04:48):
Yeah, and speaking of gift ideas, if you need them
for either yourself okay, treat yourself or gifting to a
friend or lover, you can go to teapublic dot com
slash the Bechdel Cast and grab some merch. All of
it is designed by a one Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 3 (02:05:10):
Ever heard of her? Uh? And we also if you're
coming to our tour, we sell exclusive tour exclusive posters
and uh. Just so you know, on the tour, we
will for the most part in most cities be covering
the movie Barbie.

Speaker 5 (02:05:26):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (02:05:27):
So if you want to hear us talk it since
people have been shouting that at us, we were saving
it because we want to wear little outfits. Uh, and
we will be doing that. So with that, that's an episode, folks.
See uh, see you on the flip we got uh.
We we have one or two more episodes coming this

(02:05:49):
calendar year and we'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
We sure will. Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production
of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Drante and Jamie Loftis, produced
by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Moe laboord. Our theme song
was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski.
Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and

(02:06:15):
a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about
the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechtelcast