Turning Red with Rekha Shankar

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Rekha Shankar gear up for a boy band concert, deal with puberty, and discuss Turning Red!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
changing it with the bec Del Cast. Jamie, Caitlyn, what's up?
I'm going through puberty. Who aren't you like thirty six? Yeah,

(00:26):
it didn't happen until now. Sorry, I didn't mean to
shame you. Yeah, rude, okay, Um, but there's another thing.
There's another player. Okay. When I go through puberty, I
turned into a cat. Oh yeah, well that sounds fun.
I love that. That's her friends Reactually they're like, yeah,
that's awesome. Well could you do it more? Actually, because

(00:48):
I think it's awesome. Yeah, and you can take pictures
with me, but you also you have to pay me. Okay, okay,
girl boss cat access. I think that was a solid
intro to end. No notes, won't take it a second time? Agree? Agree? Yeah,
So welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte,

(01:12):
my name's Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where
we look at movies from an intersectional feminist lens and
uh and have a little fun and goof around and
you know, turn into the animal of your choice, and
it's metaphorical and if you get it, you get it,
and if you don't whatever, whatever I do. Okay, my
brain is in five places today. We're going to get

(01:33):
around to talk about the Bechtel test in just a second.
But I do think, Caitlin, that we should reiterate that
you noticed a correlation between turning red and despicable me.
That I do feel like is worth repeating at some
point in the episode, and I think I'll do it
during the recast. I should have said that off Mike,
but it's really it's important to be that because we

(01:56):
mentioned it. But there's a paywall, and I really feel
like this should be publicly accessible in for me ship
I agree, So there's a there's an opportune moment in
the recap that I will bring it up. I trust
you have rest assured. So anyways, Uh, we use the
Bechtel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But
but what is the Bechdel test? Kalin drawte. It is

(02:18):
a media metric created by Quirk cartoonists Alas and Bechtel,
sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. There are many versions
of it. The one that we use is this, two
characters of a marginalized gender must have names, they must
speak to each other, and their conversation has to be
about something other than a man. And ideally it's two

(02:40):
lines or more of dialogue and a narratively meaningful conversation.
So it can't just be like, hows the weather? It's
good to shut up and that does pass, but it's
not important unless the movie is about whether you know

(03:00):
weather denial? Um, okay, well, not really an issue for
this movie, so we'll we'll circle back to that a
while from now. But today we're covering I think it's
been a little while since we've covered a recent release,
but a pretty new movie was released on i think
Disney Plus exclusively a couple of months ago, called Turning Red.

(03:22):
And we have an incredible guest with us today. We
sure do, so let's get her in here. She's a
writer for Grand Crew and Animaniacs. It's Raca Shankar. Hello, Yeah,
what's up? Hey, not freaking not freaking much? How about you, guys.
We're good, just hanging out. That's beautiful, it feels good,

(03:46):
feels right, hang out watching Pisar. It does feel good?
I kind of. I hadn't watched a new Pixar movie
in a bit. What was what a recent one I missed?
I still haven't seen Soul. I haven't seen Sol either. Yeah,
I saw Soul. Did you like it? I liked it?
I didn't love it. I liked it. Did it pass
the test? Oh gosh? I honestly never remember to even

(04:10):
pay attention. And that applies to movies that I am
watching for this podcast. I simply don't even pay attention anymore.
Whoop um. Look, sometimes you just gotta watch movies for fun,
and that's what we do whenever we're not getting ready
for the show. This movie, though I made, This movie
was Taylor made to be talked about on our show.
So I'm very very excited. And Sonny is chomping on

(04:34):
my recording table. So let's that's because he heard that
this movie was made for the backdel test, and he's like, oh,
I will say yeah for listeners. My dog's son. He
is over today and he really finds a subject matter
to quote him fucking nasty. So you might hear some

(04:55):
you know, some objections in the background. Please disregard them.
We're having him de ratipply. This is just taking longer
than expected. Classic Bad Dog, Sonny My horrible in Cell
Dog Rica. What's your history with this three month old movie? Yes? So,
um when it came out, I think it only seemed

(05:17):
like promotional arts, so I really didn't know what it
was about. But a friend of mine is Chinese American
and I am Indian American, and she was like, great, good,
You're got to see this movie. I was like why,
and she's like, I think it is tailor made for you.
So I went to her house and we watched. I
was like, oh, yeah, this is Taylor made for me.
I was fucking obsessed with boy bands as a kid.
I'm like, yeah, it was a great, great movie for me.

(05:42):
So that's my three month ish history where I didn't
know what it was, but then quickly afterwards I learned
what it was, and then I watched it it was
something else. Um. My history with this movie is the
I had seen this director's short film and really liked

(06:05):
it before Incredibles two. Um, she made the one of
the Pixar shorts about which I guess one an Oscar,
which is like awesome, But I remember really liking that
didn't realize that she was like writing and directing a feature.
And then I went to my cousin's wedding a month
and a half ago, and part of my um maid
of honor duties was to babysit the best man's nine

(06:30):
year old daughter for a couple of nights. And so
I actually have seen this movie three or four times
um because it was like she loved it. She was
horrified by the fact that I was alive in two
thousand and two and like knew what they were talking about.
Like it was so I had seen this movie with

(06:50):
the target audience and then also feel like we are
the target audience, which is awesome, and I was pretty
close to that. I was a little older in two
and two, but not far off. We were all there
like the it's yeah. So anyways, I've seen this movie
a couple of times now and it was fun to
like watch with the podcast in mind as well. So

(07:13):
I'm a fan, Caitlyn, What's your History? I saw it
a few days after it was released on Disney Plus.
There was quite a bit of hype about it, and
a lot of people were saying, this is the best
Pixar movie in ten years, and so I was really
excited to see it. I also love red pandas they're
my favorite wild animal. Cats are my favorite domestic animal.

(07:34):
But any video with a red panda, I'll just it
is the best movie I've ever seen. Um, So I
was excited to see it. I liked it a lot.
I humbly disagree with it being the best Pixar in
ten years, because what about cocaine. That's cars three? No, yeah,

(07:55):
Caitlin's closet cars three fan. She really once said, eat ship, Wally,
call me back with your cars three. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
You might not be able to see Caitlin's room, but
it's sort of decked out in cars stuff. Yea. She
has a Lightning mc queen bed, which is which is

(08:16):
kind of disgusting, to be honest, but they make them
for queen size mattresses. That's kind of awesome. Yeah, I
had a custom made Oh my god, that's awesome. And
the bed part is not where you'd think. That's what's
kind of surprising. Yeah, it is like it's technically a bed,
but it's also very much a sex toy. Well, can't

(08:38):
believe you're blowing up my spot on um anyway, So
I I liked it a lot, but that's annoying that
it's like, oh, it has to be the best Pixar.
It's a it's a good Pixar, it's a great par
Just yeah. So I watched it with our mutual friend
Bryant Jamie and we had a nice time. And that's

(09:03):
my history with it. Amazing. Um. Yeah, I guess that
there's really not much work, but there I guess to
like before we start discussing like the plot of the movie.
I think the first I heard of this movie, I
maybe just like missed when it was like announced as
coming out, But the first time I heard about it

(09:23):
was when people were already like mad, They're like, why
is there a movie about periods? I feel freaking sick
right now. Like there was very much like a like
I mean, and it would it was not you know,
it was from the sources you would expect, but there
was like some columnists that more conservative papers that were
like why is this? Like you know, it was like

(09:43):
yet another like Disney has gone woke kind of vibe,
which did to be fair, I was like, oh, I
didn't know it was about puberty. I thought it was
just about pandas because that is kind of like. Originally
I was like, Oh, this seems cool and I really
like the or this director made, but there are so
many Disney movies about turning into a random animal that

(10:05):
I'm like, do I need to watch this? Yeah? I
also thought it was just about turning into an animal.
I thought it was like, oh, she has like a tick,
like anytime she's mad, she'll turn into this pandas so
the whole thing is like her releasing her anger or something.
I had no clue is about periods, right, And I
was like, Okay, this is actually like the first spin
on this in a long time that I'm like, oh,

(10:25):
this is really cool, and I'm like totally in. I
just remember feeling so Brave as a Pixar movie, right.
I was just so betrayed when Brave turned into like
why is my mommy a bear? And I'm like, why
is your mommy a bear? That's not what I thought
I was going to watch. Speaking of soul, and I'm hoping,
I hope I remember this correctly, but the guy who

(10:47):
ends up in the Afterlife goes back to Earth, but
then it's either his soul or someone else's soul ends
up in a cat so someone is a cat most
of the movie. So there's that one too. They just
love that. I mean it moves merch, I suppose, but
it's just me. There's a lot of it. Yeah. Anyways,

(11:09):
So anyway, should I do the recap? Yeah? And I
can feel free to jump in at any point in
the recap. It's a loose cap. I love it. Okay.
So it is two thousand two. We meet Maylan Lee,
a thirteen year old girl in Toronto. She goes to school.

(11:29):
We learned that she is very high achieving and smart.
We meet her best friends Miriam, Priya and Abby. Her
opening monologue is so cool, Like I was just like, yes, okay,
in good she's just like talking to camera, which I
don't think really ever happens again, but I loved it. Yeah,
there's like voice over sprinkled in and now, but yeah,

(11:51):
it's a fun opening montage. Whenever I see voice over
only in like two random places, and like, was this
a studio note or they're like they're not going to
understand unless you put in aggressive voice over here. That's like,
and this is a video of my mom and she's
standing next to my dad. They are married and they
are my parents or whatever, and I love them so much,

(12:13):
but it's complicated, Okay, movie starting like yeah, which is
kind of what's happening, but also it was like it's
done in a fun enough way. Yeah, I don't mind
it totally. Yeah, I didn't mind it at all. There's
definitely like more egregious examples of that and other things. Yeah,
I think do you remember that movie, Oh my god,
what was that movie that sucked about Fox News ladies? Oh, bombshell,

(12:38):
bombshell that movie. I think it's like the worst example
of that that I always think of, where like it
was so it might have even been like a reshoot
where there's just two times where Nicole kim and starts
addressing camera in like a three hour movie, and they're
really far apart and you're just like, this is really distracting.
That's so funny. I don't know, I am ragging bombshallow

(13:01):
movie nobody remembers five years later, but here I am.
I mean, it's not undeserved anyway. So May's friends have
a crush on this guy, Devon, who works at a
local convenience store, but May likes the members of this
boy band for Town, as do her friends. As well

(13:23):
and as we. I mean, that's where their song slab funny,
I mean could be the best Phineas Eilish right, a
song of all time Billie Eilish and Phineas My jaw
dropped the first time I watched the movie with my
nine year old friend Maya, and then like that who

(13:44):
wrote the songs? No wonder, I feel like we did
become friends. There was no one else for me to
talk to at the wedding, so we became buddies. But
like the first I was like, wait, billy like and
it makes so much sense because they're so fucking at
g and they're legitimately good. I can't stand when like
movie bands don't write a song that I actually love. Yes,

(14:08):
and this one's purpose one is great. I would listen
for fun and I will I have listened for fun um. Okay,
So they love for Town and they all want to
go to this upcoming concert, but the tickets are very
expensive and it doesn't seem feasible. May goes home after school.
Her parents own and operate a temple that honors their ancestors,

(14:32):
particularly their ancestor son Ye, who was a guardian of animals,
especially red pandas May helps her mom, Ming clean and
give tours of the temple, May works very hard to
impress and honor her family, to the point where there's

(14:52):
some concern from May and her friends that she is
not really her own person. Then one day May start
stoodling some flirty drawings of her I loved this secreence
son and that guy Devon from the convenience store, which

(15:14):
her mom finds and thinks that something is going on
between them. So Ming goes to the convenience store and
screams at Devon, which obviously absolutely mortifies May. So the
next morning, when May wakes up after some nightmares, she
has turned into a giant red panda. Okay, Kafka vibes.

(15:39):
That was me feeling like an absolutely genius writing down
Kafka vibes. Wow, Jamie, Yeah, it only took me on
my fourth watch to be like, oh, cofa vibes. I
forgot that Metamorphosis was also about periods in a big ways.
I think a close read would really like would reveal

(16:00):
all that this about getting your period for the first time.
Is that book series that was popular in like the
late Animal The Animals? Yeah, yeah, that's also the vibe.
They turned into animals if I evil like the York
the Yerks, they are coming into your ears, but they

(16:22):
couldn't always control when it happens get out of control
and turn into a sexy animal. Yes, and Tobias got
stuck as a hot Bias did get stuck as a
hot Wow. Thank you for outing yourself as someone who
knows the particulars of animals. I don't. I've never read

(16:44):
an animalph Sorry, Oh, it's never too late to start. Yeah.
I kind of wonder what it would be like to
read them now, because at the time I felt like
they were like, very horny coated. But I bet that
they're just horny right interesting, and I didn't enough information
to understand. Well, so good, Okay, So May has turned

(17:09):
into a red panda. She freaks out. Her mom is like, oh, no,
have you gotten your period? And May is like sort
of and we're like, yes, this is the metaphor, and
May sometimes you're like, what is the metaphor? The metaphor
has to change. Sometimes it's a few different things. I'm

(17:29):
always having fun, but sometimes I'm like, I forgot what
the metaphor was, right. So May tries to calm down
and take deep breaths, which turns her back into a human,
although now her hair is bright red. Yeah. She goes
to school as a human, trying to act calm, knowing
that that should keep the panda at bay. But this kid, Tyler,

(17:52):
is mocking May about the incident at the convenience store,
and she gets angry and humility aided, which makes her
start to turn back into the red panda. Tyler is
Tyler triggering, You're just I knew kids like that at
that age, and do you have any exit? Because I
was thinking of one specific kid named Jeffrey. Every time

(18:15):
Tyler was on screen, I was like, oh my god,
I can't. He used to be like, why is there
so much hair in your arms? And I was like,
because I'm Italian and and he's like, well, it's gross,
and then he would just want And mine was this
kid named Nick Delawya, So I can't be if you
full name dropped him. Yeah, and he's going to listen,

(18:37):
So anyway, okay, um. She has to stay calm so
that she doesn't turn into the red panda, but then
her mom shows up at school. Things spiral out of
control again and May turns back into the red panda
which her mom sees. Then May escapes from school and

(19:00):
through the neighborhood back home where she can hide, and
her mom arrives home. Here's a little thing. A friend
of mine cited this, like the mom showing up at
school as like an example of like I think she's
like the meanest Disney or Pixar villain, and I was
I could not believe he's like she mortified her daughter.

(19:23):
I was like, Okay, listen, this might be this might
be some cultural relativism. My mom didn't show up at
school with a pad, but she's done plenty of things
that were fucking absolutely mortifying, like calling looking up in
the directory every Indian family and then calling them like
I'm Raka's mom, like we should be friends. And that
absolutely killed me and mortified me, I know, And I

(19:48):
was like, I don't think she's the meanest villain in
all of Pixar for that. It just feels very like
she's just I don't know, she's just extra. That seems yeah,
that's the it was harsh I've seen I've seen some
criticism around her character. And then it's also like which
which will get to is of like her big a

(20:09):
character that like is like the Tiger mom Trumpe, which
is on the trup I've ever heard of? Oh interesting,
But but then I also like, whatever, we'll get there
in a little bit. But also like once I listened
to I watched a ton of interviews with the director
because I sort of just like, was like, I really
like her, and I kept just letting the videos play.

(20:29):
But the director DOMI she it sounds like this story
is like super particular to her specific life, and it's
like this is what her mom was like, and she's
not trying to imply that all Chinese Canadian moms are
like this totally, which is so fair. Yes, right, sorry,
I totally interrupted, simply I know that's why we're here.

(20:50):
Not meanest. The meanest Pixar villain would be who Randolph
from Monsters incorporating maybe climate change wallet true that we
can't forget. I would say, as a Car's three expert,
whoever the villain of Cars three is? I It was like,
I don't, I've never seen I was. I was gonna

(21:12):
say you, if you could name the villain of Cars
three off the top of your head, I'm like, you
might actually be the number one Cars three experts. Does
I would not Who is the villain in Cars one?
Fossil fuel? Honestly, I think the cars movies stink. Whoa hate? Okay,
you're gonna have to trash that here. See people say

(21:34):
that and then they see Lightning McQueen literally driving around
Disneyland and they lose their minds. Do you not get
thrilled when you see Lightning McQueen driving around? No one's
in the front seat. I have not seen this, so
I know. Okay, well, let me tell you. He is shirtless,
he is hot. It looks incredible, better than in the
animation Ripped. It is kind of like to like wax

(22:01):
poetic at this, but you're sort of like, this is
the coolest thing I've ever seen. And then sometimes help
park and you can take a picture with him, and
you can take a couple if it's not busy. Look, okay,
the movies. I don't couldn't tell you a single thing
that happens in the movies besides tractor tipping, which is hilarious.
Are those cows? Yeah, that's that's cars, cows, cars, cows, tractors.

(22:26):
That's interesting. Oh okay, so May's mom ming arrives home
and explains to May that this is happening, that she's
turning into a red panda because long ago, their ancestor
son Ye had asked the gods to turn her into

(22:47):
a red panda to be able to protect her family.
So she developed this ability to harness her emotions and
transform into a red panda, which she passed on to
her daughters, who passed it onto their daughters. But after
many generations, when the family decided to move to a

(23:08):
new place and you know they're living in this modern society,
this blessing became more of an inconvenience. But the good
news is there is a cure where on the next
Red Moon they can perform a ritual that will seal
May's red panda away. Um. For example, Ming's panda is

(23:30):
sealed in a necklace that she always wears. But the
thing is, this is where a few like plot things
get confusing for me. There are like and I like,
I'm not trying to be like Mrs Cinemason's here, but
they were like, I don't understand why Ming. It didn't
occur to Meng that this could have been what was
happening earlier, even though she plays it off like she's like, oh,

(23:53):
I just thought you were too young, but like she's thirteen.
I agree. I thought she was using that as a
cover first to be like like I thought she wasn't.
It was like not something known. It was like not
everyone in the family gets I don't know, like or
it was going to be a secret from her mom
really like skip certain people or like something like that. Yeah. Yeah,

(24:15):
I was just like she would have seen this coming.
She knows it's going to come. Which also makes me
wonder because it's a possibility that it could happen kind
of at any time. Why she would do something like
show up at her school with pads, which would did
she knew trigger her daughter into turning into the panda?

(24:36):
So yeah, that got a little I'm like, huh for me,
but it's fine, But you're like, man, it's it's a
it's a but I do have one more thing. Her
friends are about to show back up and they're like,
oh my god, you turned into a panda, and I'm like,
hold on, did not everyone at school see her turn
into a panda two hours ago? I watched this scene

(24:57):
very carefully a couple of times because what happens is
when when may turns into a panda in the classroom,
a burst like a plume of pink smoke obscures her.
But even though she lets out a pretty loud roar
and you you think you would be able to sense
the presence of a very large animal right behind you,

(25:19):
no one turns around to look, and everyone's attention is
still on ming outside. Okay, I feel better, so it
does sleep again. We do visually understand why no one sees,
although there's like maybe one or two girls, one or
two students at the school who sees her as a panda,
but most people don't anyway. So the thing with the

(25:43):
panda is that strong emotions release it, and the more
May releases the red Panda, the more difficult it will
be to steal it away come time for the ritual.
And it's also said that this is her only chance
to steal it away, But then later in the movie,
all the characters who have a red panda spirit steal

(26:04):
it away again, so it isn't ther only chance anyway.
It's because May May has triggered a societal collapse with
the sheer power of her panda. Right. I don't want
to be too nitpicky about a movie that I really like,
but I do have some little nitpicks, is all. Anyway,
So there's this one chance to seal the red Panda away,

(26:27):
which is the next Red moon, which is a month
away on May. And here's the Despicable Me connection. So
have you seen Despicable of Me? Unfortunately no, that's okay,
spoilers ahead, please, that's okay. I know that I know
my minions, but I haven't seen their origin story. That's okay,

(26:50):
that's okay. So in Despicable Me, the first one from
there's a plot point where Grew has to just whether
to go to his adopted daughter's dance recital or to
steal the moon, and both of these things need to
happen on May, which is very close to So I

(27:14):
just think it's I observed. I noticed this fascinating phenomenon
where in one movie there is a moon related event
that conflicts with the formative child dance recital, right, which
was also like music and dancing based. The same thing
happens in Turning Red, where on just one day before

(27:37):
there's a moon related event double booked with a dancing
singing concert performance coincidence, Despicable Me happens and you can't
really tell what year is happening. So if it's happening
in two thousand and two, May's ritual takes place on
like a Friday, Grew literally steals the moon on a

(28:00):
Saturday day. I was just going to say, could you
imagine for town had to bump the concert to the
next day. Oh my god, May goes to do this
moon ritual. Oh it got stolen by fucking Grew. What
if that's how they introduced the multiverse. They're like, wait,

(28:21):
oh my god, third act, no moon. No moon took
the moon, it grew. That's oh my god. That was
literally inches away from happening. It was literally inches away.
Actually it could have. And then and then you know,
if the days were switched or happened the same day,
all the events of Turning Red would be moot because
there would just be a massive weather event and everyone

(28:43):
would die. Yes, you can't not have the moon. This
is like the st Elsewhere universe. How like there's all
these shows that exist that couldn't exist in theory. Some
of the events of st. Elsewhere true. That's the that's
the group Grewniverse, the growniverse diverse. Oh okay, okay, so

(29:05):
back back to turning red. So the next red moon
is on, that's when this ritual will be. Then May's
friends Miriam, Priya, and Abby come over and discover May
as a red panda, but they are quick to understand
and embrace May as a red panda, and they tell
her that for Town is coming to Toronto for a

(29:28):
concert on of May, which is one day after my birthday. Okay,
that's kind of a coincidence they didn't really talk about, right, Okay,
so that's gonna, I mean, kind of jealous as an
August baby that you would get to sell rate your
birthday before the moon was shrunk right under the wire. Yeah. Um.

(29:53):
But so so May knows she won't be able to
go to the concert because she'll get so excited it
she will turn into a red panda in front of everyone.
But she discovers that being with her friends, or even
just thinking about being with her friends, has a very
calming effect on her and it neutralizes the panda, although

(30:14):
she tells her mom that what neutralizes the panda is
like her love for her parents, and we see this
scene where she does some like tests which would could
possibly kind of like release the panda, but She's able
to keep it at bay because she's thinking about her friends.
So she's like, all right, I can go to this concert.

(30:36):
But when May asks if she can go, her mom
says no. And then Ming's mother, May's grandmother calls and
says that she's going to be coming from Florida to
help with the ritual, which gives Ming an awful lot
of anxiety. Meanwhile, May's friends parents also do not let

(30:58):
them go to the con sert. But the girls, the girls.
Sorry to the girls, sorry to keep bringing up despicable. Sorry,
we're really it's for listeners. We are recording this the
released day of Rise of Grew, so we just kind
of have Grew on the brain. You gotta see the movie.

(31:20):
I mean it's streaming out. Okay. He has three daughters.
He calls them the girls. I was ant, solutely shocked
when you said any of these men had children. Stunned
beyond Bullie. Grew is a father, and make no mistake,
he's a bad one. Wait a minute, he Grew not

(31:40):
a minion. He's the man. He's the cruise. Steve Carrell,
Oh my god, I thought Grew was a minion this
whole time. Know the minions are Kevin, Stewart and Bob Oh.
I knew Kevin and Stewart. I thought the third one
was grew. Okay, that's interesting, So okay, see now you
can maybe see why I was shocked. I was like

(32:00):
one of the medians to have three daughters and has
to go to Honestly, it might be a better movie altogether, probably,
but I'm pretty sure that Minions cannot reproduce. But they
don't want to get into it franchise wise. It gets
too messy. Yeah. Kind of conspicuously absent from the series

(32:24):
is how they reproduce where all the six year olds
the movie is made for they need to know. I
don't want to know, they simply must. Yeah. Um okay.
So the girl, the friends, they are hell bent on
going to this Fourton concert, and then some classmates catch
May while she's in red panda form. But they think

(32:45):
it's really cool and they think she's so cute and
offer money to take pictures with her, And so the
friends and May in particular, devise a plan to earn
the eight hundred dollars they need to buy the concert
tickets by seting their classmates take pictures with panda. May
and like they start selling merch and we see this

(33:07):
whole montage and after a couple of weeks they've almost
earned enough money. They just need a hundred more dollars.
But that kid, Tyler threatens to tell May's mom that
she's been flaunting the panda all over school, but he
won't tell anyone if she comes to his birthday party
because if she comes, everyone will come. And he's like

(33:28):
trying to be popular. Uh, And May demands that he
pay her two hundred dollars for her appearance, and Tyler agrees,
And then you're like, where does Tyler going to get
two d And then you see his house, You're like, oh,
I guess it's around has very rich parents. But just
as May is heading out to go to Tyler's party,

(33:49):
her grandmother and Aunties show up and delay her, and
her grandmother warns Slash reminds May that the more she
lets this beast out, the harder it will be to
contain at the ritual. But May goes to the party
any anyway to let the panda out one last time.
And at the party, Miriam is like, well, what if

(34:12):
you don't do the ritual and you just keep the
Panda because her friends have noticed that May has started
to become more her own person and she's not constantly
bending over backwards to impress her mom. Meanwhile, oh no,
Ming finds out that May snuck out, and she discovers
all the money and the merch that they've been selling,

(34:35):
so she storms off. Then back at the party, the
girls discovered that they got the wrong date for the concert.
It is not May eighteen, the day after my birthday.
It's on May, the day before Grew is going to
steal the moon. Okay, it's really I thought the like
throwaway joke as to why Abby messed it up was

(34:56):
really funny every time, and she's like to lead it's
pretty good, pretty good. So the concert is on, which
is the same night as the ritual, so May freaks
out and ends up getting really aggressive towards Tyler, which
is the exact moment that May's mom shows up at

(35:17):
the party. So Ming be rates May's friends for being
a bad influence on May, and May doesn't challenge her
mom and throws her friends under the bus. But we
all we understand that it's because May is very freaked
out by her own aggressive behavior and she's still you know,
kind of I need my mom's approval. So we cut

(35:40):
to Ma. May's friends go without her to see four
Town while May reluctantly preps for the ritual. But then
May's dad Jin, who has been a character the whole time.
I just didn't know how to fit him into the
Record's dad. Yeah, he's like known for his cooking, and

(36:01):
he's nice, and he's very nice. He finds a cam
quarter and watch his footage of May and her friends
having fun. They're singing, they're dancing to Foretown, and he
has a heart to heart with May about her red panda.
Then it's time for the ritual, where her family gathers
around in a circle and sings from the heart, which

(36:25):
causes May to kind of project into this astral realm
where she kind of reflects on her experience with her
panda and decides to not let go of it and
to keep it, which enrages Ming, but May's like, I
don't care, I'm I'm leaving and I'm going to the concert.

(36:47):
And Ming, who's panda spirit again, lives in this like
necklace amulant thing breaks during this kind of altercation with
May and her panda is unleashed like a Godzilla situation. Yes. Meanwhile,
May gets to the concert, she apologizes to her friends,

(37:09):
they forgive her. They start having a great time at
the concert, but then Ming as her panda, which is
enormous and very scary, crashes the concert. So May and
Ming start fighting and yelling at each other and like
physically fighting, and May's family shows up to do the

(37:31):
ritual again so that they can contain Ming's panda, and
then Grandma and the Aunties all break their pieces of
jewelry that contain their panda spirits so they can help,
and they start doing the ritual, but they're singing isn't working.
So May's friends start singing four Town, and then four
Town shows back up and they start singing I Love

(37:54):
the four Town is like not really bothered by what
is happening. The power of music is too strong, truly.
They're just like kind of like cyborgs that have been
programmed by the music industry to like saying at opportune
moments and I love and oh god, that feels very real.
It's right, it's maybe it's commentary on boy band culture.

(38:18):
This is like lou Pearlman commentary. You know it did
all feel. I mean like, yeah, peek Loue, pearlmant God,
where's I think there was a loop Pearlman biopic in
production for a while. I don't know if it's going
to happen. I love to watch. But when like the
when the boy band all of a sudden had angel wings,

(38:39):
I was like, there was something like that was reawakened
in me that hadn't that had been sleeping for years.
We're like, oh, yeah, that used to be really it beautiful, Yeah,
matching outfits and wings. Yeah. So because the rituals was working,
now May finds herself in this astral realm again where
she encounters her mom when she was May's age, and

(39:02):
she's crying and talking about the pressure to be perfect
and to gain her mom's approval, and May is like, yeah,
I get it. I can relate, but it won't always
feel this way. And then May also tells her mom
that you know, I'm changing and I'm figuring myself out
and you just have to let me be my own person.

(39:23):
I like to gyrate. You're like, yeah, good for you.
We see some other tender moments between Ming and her mother,
between May and son Ye, and then the other women
in the family contain their red spirit, their red panda spirits,
but again May decides to keep hers, and that's the

(39:45):
big climax of the movie. Then we cut to the
aftermath of all of this, where May and her mother
still spend time together, and May brings out her panda
at the temple and it attracts and more crowds, but
May is also free to be herself and to be
with her friends more. And then the movie ends with

(40:08):
voiceover from May saying that we've all got an inner beast.
We've all got a messy, loud, weird part of ourselves
hidden away, and a lot of us never let it out,
but I did. How about you the end, Benny, and
get to hear the whole song and it's good and
it's okay. So that's a movie. Let's take a quick

(40:30):
break and we will come back to discuss. And we're back.
Where do we want to start here? There's like, there's
there's a lot to talk about. H I let's go home. Yeah, nope.

(40:56):
I mean this movie is doing a lot of things,
a lot to really cool things. It's subverting a lot
of tropes. There's a lot of like meaningful inclusion and
representation that historically we have not seen in major Hollywood films.
There's a lot of like interesting themes and metaphors being explored. Yeah,

(41:19):
I don't I don't know where to where to start.
Should we start with periods? Yeah, because that's like, okay.
The Panta represents a lot of things at different times.
It represents literally getting your period, it represents just general
puberty changes. It represents her connection and her isolation from

(41:40):
her culture. Like, it represents a lot of different things.
But as far as periods go. So I'm not gonna
like read you all of the whatever like ridiculous comments
that a bunch of people made. There's at least one
review when this movie came out where it was like,
I don't know, I feel like this doesn't really happen
very much anymore, but it did happen here where it

(42:01):
was like a white guy film critic that was like
I couldn't relate with this movie, and so, um, what
the heck? Uh? No stars. There was someone I don't
know if this is the same person that said, like
this seems way too specific to the director's experience. Yes,
which I mean, it is true that this movie is
very specific to the director's experience, but like that doesn't

(42:24):
make it unrelatable to other people. It's yeah, so fucking
boring to be like, oh, this is too specific to
an experience I've never had. I'm like, I've never had
any experience is in a movie? There is. The whole
point is like you see yourself in other people. Why
the funk are you watching movies? Are you stupid? That's

(42:47):
my unnuanced take. No, I mean, it's like it's ridiculous.
And it's also like if that take were true across
the board, then no one would watch movies at all,
because that's like what most of them are. Like, you
don't hear people say you should like that about sucking
licorice pizza, But like Paul Thomas Anderson has been making
movies about the three square blocks he's grown up on
for like decades. You know, it's like and no one

(43:09):
has a problem with it, and they are usually pretty
good movies, and it's like, yeah, I mean, you know
what the issue is here, but yeah, like, uh, all
that stuff is really frustrating. I mean, and we can
sort of get back to like how specific the movie
is to DOMI. She's experienced as a kid growing up
in like literally like she was born in n and

(43:32):
grew up in Canada with Chinese family. Like this is
her story, except I don't think she turned into a panda.
But also she could be burying the lead. We don't
don't know, we don't know, we might never know that. Yeah,
it's going to come out twenty years later. It's actually
a documentary turning around. Is is a biopic? Yeah, yeah,

(43:54):
it's gonna get the idiocracy treatment. Um, But like just
in gen I just wanted to do kind of like
a quick rundown of like, first of all, like this
movie does reference periods in a movie that's directed at
young audiences, and that never happens true, But even so
it's really not referenced that much, and the criticism that

(44:17):
is like pushed back against it makes it seem like
that is what the whole movie is about. Is basically
one scene and like maybe like kind of a winking
reference in the title, you could argue, but like it's
that one scene with Ming, you know, thinking that May
has gotten her period for the first time and bringing
in a bunch of different paths and like showing her

(44:40):
holding pads, which is a big deal. For movies. I mean,
I can't think of one where that would happen and
DOOMI She has done all these really cool interviews talking
about what she watched growing up. She references being like
a big Lizzie McGuire head, which I really appreciate, and
saying like, oh, I saw so many like experiences that

(45:01):
I had had in middle school on that show, but
they don't you know, you couldn't reference menstruation at all
on a show like that. In that era, you could
reference almost everything. But I feel like unless you found
your way to de grassy Um where it's in the pilot,
you wouldn't know. And so that that is a big deal,

(45:21):
especially because the way periods are shown in movies, at
least like very influentially, are usually really negative. Like the
Carrey scene is like the first thing that comes to
mind where it's like presented as traumatic and horrible and
sends you on the road to setting your classmates on fire. Um,

(45:44):
I mean accurate though, And then the other scene that
I was trying to I was like, Okay, what we're
like really influential movies with scenes that like directly mentioned periods,
and the only other movie I think of was super bad.
It's like, which is a scene that like, Still I
went back and rewatched him, Like, the scene still doesn't
make sense. No one would do this right. And of

(46:08):
course what was the grossed out by the period? A
girl leaks period onto like Jonah Hills pants or something
and he's horrified. Um. I just watched The Florida Project
for the first time, and there's a scene where the
mom she like wants to give like a big fuck

(46:30):
you gesture to someone, so she pulls her pad out
of her underwear and then sticks it to the window
of the people that she's saying fuck you too. Okay,
that's fun, that's representation. Yet no notes. I actually I
remember a scene in Niptuck that um we all loved
um that show, and it was the daughter was nine

(46:52):
years old and her older brother scared her by telling
her what a period was, so she thought she had
to put a tamp on and now she went and
put it in and left it in toxic got tss.
I remember this episode was convulsing and went to the hospital.
And I have never ever fucking forgot that because I'm like,
I'll never leave a tampon in for more than twenty

(47:14):
five sacands, I swear that's fearmongering from big tampon. Yes.
But all this to say that a lot of the
what very little representation of menstruation there is in media
has mostly been like, oh my god, it's horrible. It's horrible,

(47:35):
or there's some like weird like delicate flower kind of
like you have blossomed in to a woman kind of
weird ship as opposed to just like it's a thing
that happens when you're still a kid, and you still
react like a kid around it, and it doesn't make
you like a woman now necessarily, it just as a

(47:57):
bodily thing that happens. It's just a bottle function. Yeah,
Like and I and I really liked that, Like Ming
treated it like she's like anxious because she's like, oh,
I wasn't ready, But like she doesn't treat it like
it's you know, like scary. She tries to be calming
about it. It seems like maybe they've talked about it

(48:18):
before this scene, Like it just feels like it sets
a better precedent for people who get their period for
the first time, because yeah, I don't. I got my
period super late as a late bluemer in every single way,
and I thought I had shipped myself because we didn't
have sex that at my school. I love every time
you tell this story on the pod, which is I

(48:40):
think maybe ten times so many times. Look if there's
and if there's a perfect time for this story, this
is the episode. Yeah, but that was that was like
another criticism that I saw in this like first wave
of like you know, right leaning weirdos who were like
this is too much, where they were like, this is

(49:00):
too young an audience to be talking about periods too,
and which also got backlash because it's like you can
get your period as young as like eight years old.
My friend got it when she was nine, and it's
like if you are someone who menstruates, there's no rhymeries,
it's hormones, Like it just happens when it's going to happen. Yeah,
So so I'll have to say, like I think it

(49:21):
is like a huge deal. That's like a cool thing
that there's going to be a generation of kids growing
up knowing this of like all genders, because I do
feel like it's like addressing it even if you're if
you don't menstrate, it's just a way to be like, oh,
that's what that is. And I don't even think the
scene fully explains what that is. So I don't know
whatever it's so fucking mad about. If you like went

(49:41):
to the bathroom during that scene, you wouldn't be like,
this is a movie about like it's like just kind
of about like puberty in general exactly because the movie
is so much more about And yeah, you can map
on like going through puberty and getting your period onto
the red panda, Like that's a clear meta for but
there's also again a number of other metaphors or just

(50:04):
like themes that are driving this narrative far more than
the menstruation thing, such as I mean, there's this and
this is kind of connected to puberty in a way
that when you're going through puberty sometimes your emotions are
confusing and you don't really have the maturity to start
drawing people as mermaids, And you don't know why that

(50:28):
theme was really impactful. You know, there's a lot going
on in our development and a lot and you know
a lot of it is mental and emotional, and so
there's this kind of theme of emotions and like the
pressure to suppress emotions versus letting yourself feel the entire
range of your emotions, so like that's part of what

(50:48):
the movie is about. There's also a very strong, if
not the strongest theme of the movie, which is the
idea of honoring your family versus honoring yourself and finding
a healthy balance in that, where you can also kind
of extend that to a generational saying where kids coming
of age in a different cultural landscape than their parents,

(51:11):
and how that almost always creates generational conflict. And then
there's also the like aspect of Eastern and Western philosophies,
where you know, many Eastern philosophies prioritize family and community
over the individual, versus Western cultures tending to prioritize individuality.

(51:31):
And how May coming from a Chinese immigrant family, I
think she's second generation, if I'm understanding correctly, I think so. Um,
I think it might not be like explicitly stated, I
don't think. Yeah, it's a more just kind of like
basing it on, like who speaks with what accent kind
of thing. But even so, like her May growing up

(51:54):
in Toronto, where aside from her being at home with family,
she surrounded by Western ideology, and how that creates tension
between her and her family and also her and her friends,
because like she's being pulled at both ends in these
two different directions, and so like, that's what the movie
is about. That has to be relatable to so many

(52:19):
groups of people, exactly whether or not you have like
a familial obligations thing, just the idea of like, oh
I feel this way where my parents, in this way
where my friends. That's what being a teen exactly. And
I love that a huge focus of this movie is
on friendship, and specifically female friendship, and specifically like teenage

(52:40):
female friendship, because so few movies are about that. And
I love that this movie examines how your friends, especially
at an age like thirteen, which is like maybe the
worst age you can be. Like, how the people who
understand you the most and who can bring you the
most comfort as you come of age and navigate life

(53:03):
are your friends. Like that is such a relatable thing
for people, especially of that age. So I think that's
a great point too, because something this movie does that
I really liked was just like, oh, I was a
big boy band head, and that is kind of viewed
as like ditzy girl interests, you know, like not serious
fandom or whatever, and it's like this movie doesn't make

(53:25):
any political commentary on it, but it's kind of just
by virtue of existing, honoring the things a young kid
might care about without casting any judgment on it exactly.
And it's like, oh, she wants to sit in her
room and doodle, she wants to talk all day out
to her with her friends on the phone, and that's
might be seen in one way by like media, but

(53:46):
like you see that it is crucial for her like
development and her well being to do all that stuff right.
They talk about how going to this concert is going
to be a major milestone and it's going to basically
it's like symbolic of their step toward becoming women. Like
they're literally me and my cousin's going, Okay, I'm gonna
tell another story I've told the podcast. That was how

(54:08):
me and my cousins fault when we went to see
the Backstreet Boys the night before eleven, And then it
turns out that that was not the event that was
going to make headlines that week, but the one I
reflect on more frequently. Yes, but I really liked how
like this movie because we've talked about stuff like this

(54:29):
before where sometimes it's like in movies with like kids
and like young teens, and I'm like thinking non judgmentally
because they were important to me. But like with Mary
Kay and Nashley movies, it's like you have twelve or
thirteen year old kids and there's like they have romantic interests,
which does make sense for a kid of that age,

(54:50):
but it also like it becomes important to the plot
that they have a boyfriend by the end or whatever happens.
But this movie, I feel like, does something cool that
I've never that I can't really think of seeing at
least many times where it's like they are having like
a this weird awakening that a lot of kids had
when they saw boy bands, and now boy bands are

(55:11):
fully back, so it's happening again, but there's no like
romantic plot that's important to the movie. It's like they're
allowed to like I don't know, I feel like you
can't at least it like matched my experience kind of closely,
where it's like being thirteen and like not being ready
for an actual anything, but like projecting like a mad
person onto like every cute older boy or like boy

(55:36):
band or even like May May when she like has
a crush on the store clerk who's like clear, like
she doesn't think anything is going to happen, but it's
just like the idea of it. I don't know. It
reminds me of like summer camp counselor she has another
crush too on some kid named like Carter Michael Murphy
or I don't know, Chad Michael Murray, Michael Carter Michael Murphy.

(55:59):
It's something and every time she sees him she gets
all googlely eyed and like, yeah, that's a very relatable
experience because again, when you're like going through puberty and
your hormones are just like firing on all cylinders and
you're like horny is hell, And I like love that
this movie is about like teenage horny nous. Don't you

(56:20):
know how to do anything and you don't know what
it is right, You're just like what do I do
with this? But it's just there and it's consuming many
of your thoughts, which is again like seen as something
by society is like oh what team girls being horny?
That can't be a what that's horrifying or that can't
be a thing. But it's like a very real thing

(56:43):
that this movie handles very responsibly, And I just I
love to see it on screen. There's this bit called
Larger than Life by Maria Sherman, and it's like an
encyclopedia on boy bands through the ages and like what
purpose they serve and like why we have come back
to them after decades and decades, like there is always

(57:05):
some sort of boy band force. And one of the
things the author says that I found really interesting because
like boy band's being elemental and like figuring out your
sexuality or at least starting to think about it. And
it's like it's a safe avenue to do that because
so like what both of you are saying. It's like,
I'm not going to be with Ja C Chase, but

(57:26):
I can look at him and feel like he's talking
to me in a way I don't feel like the
boys in my school were. And that's my like safe
mental avenue to like figure out my ship a little bit.
It was also a jay Z girl, Thank you. I
have a poster of jac girls don't speak up enough. Yes,

(57:47):
we are hiding, we are hiding. We are afraid. It's
because his song. It's because his solo song. All day long,
I dream about sex. It's embarrassing. I used to wait,
here's my anecdote. I had that album which is called
schisip Nick, which is disgusting and horrible. But I used
to listen to that song and I would scream the
word cupcakes over the word sex because I didn't want

(58:08):
my parents stay here. That's so cute. Oh my gosh,
Well I love that. My friends and I would do
something similar with Nellie's hot in here. We'd be like,
so put on all your clothes, and then my mom
would be like, awesome, great her song. All the long,

(58:30):
I dream about cupcakes. He should release that might be coming,
and he hasn't released the second album, so that would
be what he has been working on. He's been working
on it for two days ago. Oh gosh. But yeah,
that's fascinating about like culturally, boy bands just being a
thing to help people be horny and figure out their

(58:54):
horny nous. Yeah, they're just projection boards. And I liked
I really like that San where May is like the
animation and that scene is so funny, like that where
she's drawing like these weird pictures of mermaid boys and
she's like, what's happening? What am I doing? And she's
like ashamed, but also like can't stop and you're like, yeah,

(59:16):
that's and there. So I watched there was like a
Disney Plus documentary about the making of this movie. I
really like went down the Domy Sheeth hole. I was like,
I want to be her friend, um, but she had
like notebooks like this, and then shows it on screen
of like anime pictures. She drew of her crush when
she was like in middle school and her mom kept it.

(59:37):
And there's like a scene where she's like zooming with
her mom and she's like, hey, do you still have
those sketch books? And her mom was like, I know
exactly what you're talking about, and then went to the
other room and grabbed it and was like two thousand
and two, and like there were all these like, you know,
very adolescent, weird drawings of like cute boys. I was like, wow,

(59:58):
I don't think my parents kept that stuff. I hope
they didn't, but it existed. I remember a crush of
mine got a wart on his thumb and this was
like kind of national news for me, and that became
like my fixation to draw, Like I wonder when this
will go down? And I would draw it like all
the time, and and like when I was in first

(01:00:20):
grade anyway humiliating for him. I used to have like
my like kid fantasies. I remember, like they would be
so specific that I would always appear in them exactly
as I was. Like. I didn't change anything about myself,
which would have made it easier, but I had like
a specific memory of like I would have the same

(01:00:43):
like fantasy about like talking to Daniel Radcliffe at like
basically a bridge retain party at night, and it was
like the same thing. It would just be my little
thought that would help me off to sleep. But there
was like one time where I had conjunctive itus and
my eyes were really gross and I had to defy
the fantasy. So he's like, I don't care that you
have conjunctively I still like you. Absolutely, yes, huge, huge,

(01:01:09):
And in that moment I felt truly seen, Yes, even
though I for I could not see. I had my
eyes full of crust. That is a beautiful story. Um,
let's take another quick break and then we will come
back for a more discussion. We're back, all right, And

(01:01:34):
what shall we talk about next? Should we talk about
May's relationship with her mom and the generational issues in
this movie? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we sort of started
talking talking about it already, But I like that. I mean,
it's rare for a Disney Pixar movie specifically to center
a mother daughter relationship, shocking that a mother and a

(01:01:56):
grandmother are alive. And I do like the connection that
May and her mom have. And I also like that
it's like established early on that they like each other
and they like spending time together, but there's like just
certain things they can't talk about. I felt like real
where like it's established, like like I really like working

(01:02:17):
at the temple with my mom, Like they have a
whole system of how they clean and how they host
and all this stuff. Um, but then there's like certain
topics that you can't go there. And it's like which
I thought was like a cool balance and and and
you don't see that in like big Disney movies very much, Right,
It's another thing that's relatable. And Yeah, I liked that

(01:02:41):
the relationships that are focused on, at least the familial
relationships that are focused on in the movie are mothers
and daughters going back generations and generations where they like
honor their ancestor son ye who like was this powerful
figure who like wanted to be a red panda because

(01:03:02):
she wanted to be able to protect herself and her
daughters during wartime, so she like asked for red panda
powers from the gods. And then which is like a
good idea to specifically idea. I can't say I would
have thought to do that, but now I've been like,
a weapon would be awesome. She's like, no, I want

(01:03:24):
to turn into the cutest animal imaginable, but also be
like very fierce because she was able to fend off
bandits and protect her village and save her family from ruin.
So I love that. That's like the origin story. And
then you know this gets passed down and then we
again focus in the movie on Ming and May and

(01:03:44):
how again there's yeah, there's just like kind of cultural
differences that are creating tension between them, the air generational
differences um that are again relatable for an awful lot
of people, but are all there, Like there are a
lot of like culturally specific things that get touched on
in the movie, but still there's a relationship that is
very universally relatable, which I thought was really cool and

(01:04:09):
not many movies pull it off very well, but I
thought this one did. Adding to that too, like as
someone who's grown up with two thousand aunties and uncles.
I've never seen aunties in a children's movie of any
kind in America, So it's really cool to see that
because your aunties are not necessarily related to you. They
might just be your family's friends, and like that bond

(01:04:30):
forms from like being the only people of your race
and that speak your language around and so they all
just become people like these are the people that are
away at my house, that they're all by Auntie or whatever.
So it's really cool to see that too as a
as an important relationship or something that mattered, Like you
needed all of them there to kind of do that
thing at the end. So I like that. Yeah, coming

(01:04:52):
together as family, Yeah, I thought that was beautiful. I
did see and I think we hinted at this, but
I saw a lot of critic ism about how people
a lot of people felt that this movie leaned into
the tiger mom stereotype. I read it one review in
particular by a fourteen year old film critic who it

(01:05:13):
was from teen Vook. The critics name is Tabitha Yun.
Her reviews entitled Turning Red made me feel understood as
a Chinese American teen um and Tabitha, you know, discusses
a lot of ways in which this movie, you know,
she feels very seen by it and specific scenes that
she really connected with. But she does call out the

(01:05:37):
use of the tiger mom stereotype um, which I certainly see,
but also because DOMI, she is very much pulling from
her own experience and her own family dynamics. I don't
think it's necessarily fair to criticize someone for playing into
tropes when that filmmaker is just retelling their own experience.

(01:05:58):
I watched this with my Chinese American friend and her
parents are immigrants. My parents are immigrants, and it was
funny because we were like, she's so much nicer than
my mom. Like, because like I do think there is
something like the tiger Mont's experience is definitely like a
watered down, very like myopic view of how an Asian

(01:06:20):
person parents, for sure, But there are just certain things
it was like that was relatable to me in some moments.
It's hard because it's like, this is some people's experience,
but it's not other people's experience. Like I protect my
parents are not strict, but they are like I cannot
talk about a huge swath of topics with my mom
because she will be co upset and so it's like

(01:06:42):
that part was so relatable to me. So it's like
I totally get what this young film critic is saying
where you don't want to lean on that stuff, but
it's so tough because also there's like no representation of
that in the Pixar universe to begin with. So it's
like if there were a bunch of movies with Asian
families and they were all doing that, it's like, okay,
it's like there's only one. Oh no. And again, I

(01:07:05):
do feel like her mom like kind of learned to
listen to her daughter and learn from her daughter, and
like that is sort of not part of that trope
so much. Uh yeah, that's just what I thought. Yeah, yeah,
I think it's more nuanced than just like the flat trope.
And I also feel like that, I mean, because the criticism,

(01:07:28):
Like I mean again, first of all, like I don't
really get to have an opinion from from a fu
Irish Italian family like there um, but I did feel
like the more I learned about how particular this story
is to dom she, its like I understand the criticism
and it is a valid criticism, and I feel like
it just speaks to a bigger problem than what this

(01:07:49):
movie is, because where you're saying like a lack of
representation in general, where it's like, well, Domi, she is
like telling people of her story, so you can't tell
her she's wrong to do it, and that puts a
lot of pressure on her as like one Chinese Canadian
filmmaker to represent every you know, first generation kit. So

(01:08:11):
it's like yeah, yeah, I feel like it just like
speaks to what a what a significant pressure there is
on her specifically, which isn't fair, right, And and Demmy,
she has spoken a lot about her intentions with this
movie and the way she characterized the mother daughter relationship.

(01:08:33):
Um she was speaking on immigrant children and specifically Asian children, quote,
they have to figure out what world they belong to,
how to honor their parents and their family's expectations, but
how to carve out this independent identity for themselves in
this new world that their family is not from. I think,
especially for immigrant kids, Asian kids, and for May in

(01:08:55):
the movie, I think she has to come to realize
that there is no perfect relationship with your parents, and
that is always going to be messy. We really wanted
to explore the nuances of Asian parent child relationships and
dealing with change and of intergenerational conflict and how it
can shape who we become unquote. So like that was
her intention. That's very clearly what comes through in the movie. Yes, yeah,

(01:09:18):
and I and like I agree that you're saying earlier
right there where it's like you get more context for
Ming's behavior than you ever would with like a truly
like distilled version of that troupe because you get like
a look at her relationship with her mom and how
like totally this is clearly like a generational trauma issue
that like doesn't exist in a void. And it's almost

(01:09:41):
a little like, oh, you're allowed to change traditions to
suit you. You're allowed. It's like a permission kind of thing,
because like I just do someone that was like, oh,
it's almost saying it was okay for her to be
mean to her daughter, because there was a long line
of that, like listen, first of all, I feel like
there's a different if you're being mean to your daughter

(01:10:01):
at being a strict parent. I don't know whatever, uh,
but yeah I thought that was like nice, Yeah, like
nice contact, nice backstory, nice like humanity given totally. Um.
Here's another quote from Domici that I wanted to share
about this. She was speaking about just kind of the
conception of the movie and how the idea for the

(01:10:23):
movie came from quote, wanting to make a movie for
that thirteen year old Tommy who was struggling with her
body and her emotions and fighting with her mom every
day and wanting to understand what was going on at
that time, but in a fun and unique and magical
way unquote. So it's like one. She executes this well

(01:10:43):
in the movie too. Again relatable because I was fighting
with my mom every day too when I was thirteens.
Simply what you do, It's just simply what happens. Yeah,
I just I'm my tireless Domi, she defender. After watching
that documentary, I like her so much and and I

(01:11:04):
like tell like the whatever at the climax of the movie,
like so much of stuff is like focused on like
how May is like struggling to balance her Chinese culture
with like her Canadian culture, and how there's like not
really one person that she can talk to about everything
and like that, and then it's like then you get

(01:11:25):
the ritual music syncopate with for town, you're like synergy
and you're like this is hot and ship this is
what I walked up a It's like it works and
it's yeah. I like that it's culturally specific and still

(01:11:46):
super relatable because that's like what good kids movies should be, right.
There are a lot of specific references to Chinese culture
that Hollywood movies have historically shied away from, and not
speaking just of like Chinese culture, but like any culture
that's not like white American Hollywood tends to shy away

(01:12:06):
from any stories or references of that nature because you know,
Mr Hollywood is afraid that it will alienate movie going
audiences who Mr. Hollywood perceives to be white men based
on the movies that Hollywood has historically turned out. So
you mean Mr Hollywood, Mr Hollywood is Sunny. Actually is Sunny.

(01:12:30):
That's he's rubbing his paws together. It makes me sick
to look at Sunny is actually running Paramount plus right now,
Oh my god. But yeah, it was just like very
refreshing to have this story with these specific cultural references
that a lot of people were able to see themselves in.

(01:12:54):
But the story overall is just very universally relatable, and
it does feel like more movie are, like like for kids,
are headed in this direction where it's like recently also
have like cocoa and um incanto, which, like every child
in the world is it's a trigger word for them.
They will. My mom sent me a video. My mom's
a second gardye teacher, and she sent me a video

(01:13:16):
of her just like saying the word incanto at school
and all the kids were like like they was like
they had just done a line of coke, Like, uh,
we will cover incanto of the show at upoint, Yes
we will. But I like that there's more space being
made for like culturally specific kids stories and also that
they're like doing really fucking well too. Like I do

(01:13:38):
wish that this I mean, I think it. I don't
know if this I don't really know, like production wise,
whether this movie was always intended to go straight to
streaming or if that was a COVID thing. I do
wish that this movie got a general release because I do.
I feel like I feel like maybe, with the exception
of Encanto, a lot of like Disney Kids movies at
least that like feature like non white protagonists go straight

(01:14:01):
to streaming and don't get the theatrical releases right, so, uh,
perhaps a bit of side either. I don't really know
um what the COVID situation is there, so I could
be wrong, but I was like, why didn't this movie
get a huge release? It would have done well. I'm
not sure what Also I have Tyler is the devil.
I don't think he should have gotten a redemption arc.

(01:14:22):
He should have gone to detention. I like that we
see and this one. I think also maybe the reason
that a lot of people had kind of perceived Ming
as a tiger mom. I think that might have been
sort of enhanced by the fact that May's dad Jin
was very like understanding, I'm cool and I'm nice, and

(01:14:43):
I'm like also sort of barely in the movie, but
when I am here, I'm super nice. But then the
flip side of that is like, when was the last
time you saw like a father talked to his daughter
about puberty and like accepting yourself. That is I'm edge alerting,
but I'm like, I think it's good. I think dad
being nice about Panda good. Actually, I like I really

(01:15:06):
liked that scene, like after he finds the video Kim, Yeah,
like the video camera footage. It's really cute. It makes
me cry. I like that you see him make dinner
for the family, Like how often do you see the
dad making dinner rather than the mom? Yeah, and then
that's that's another like fun thing about the story that's
like the food is really culturally specific and like, oh

(01:15:29):
my god, it maybe funk absolutely listen Pixar, should I
mean rat Tui too. Let's go do another food movie.
Come on, ra there we go where Guini has to

(01:15:49):
help the rat do something and he has to step
on the rat. Remy dies immediately. And maybe I also
do want to see the movie Raka Kuni with There's
a reference to anything everywhere all at once. Where's that
spin off? It's in the works. Let's talk about friendship

(01:16:10):
really quick. Um, we've kind of covered this already, but
I really liked May's relationship with her friends. Again, I
guess this is really really closely pulled from Domi She's
life and Miriam is basically an analog for her best
friend in Toronto growing up, and they were very close
and I guess they're still friends, which is really sweet.

(01:16:32):
And I liked that it's like they are so close
and like when I don't know when you're thirteen. Those
are like the people that, besides random boys you don't
actually know, the only people you think about. Like I
just I liked their closeness. I wish that you got
a little more of Priya and Abby because it did
sort of become like the Miriam Show in terms of

(01:16:53):
like friends stuff. I wish that they had more moments. Yes,
I agree, especially because I think specific being around. I
love that she had like a core group that had
a bunch of Asian friends in it. I think that rules.
That was what my friend group felt like too. It
was funny too because I think Abby is Jewish and
it was like all of my white friends were Jewish

(01:17:13):
and then all of my other friends were Asian. Oh
I thought Abby, Abby is Korean? Who Who's Miriam? Yes,
I should have said Plaid, Sorry, but I just love
I love that dynamic. But I felt like one of
my best friends growing up with Chinese American and we

(01:17:34):
could just talk for just forever about like my parents
doing this that's really similar to something might like. It
made me feel normal. I don't know what I would
have done without that experience, and I feel like that
is the benefit of having that that story wise, not
even just from the director's life, like that core group
is just like do you experience like how can we
talk to each other and make each other feel more

(01:17:55):
safe and normal? So I'm with you there. It would
have been cooler to see like more conversations like that
because I feel like they don't really they happen a
little bit of like my mom doesn't get me, but
it's mostly it's mostly for town in Panda. It would
be cool if they were talking to me about their
own parents. I think there would have been room two
to even if it was briefly just to like check

(01:18:15):
in with each of May's friends families and like just
to kind of see, yeah, what their families are like
and what their home life is like. But um, yeah,
I we we've talked before about because we've covered a
number of coming of age stories on the show, but
it's a genre that is so white historically and really

(01:18:37):
like upper class to others. It's like, what's this movie
does do? It's like fancy house party for thirteen year
old and yeah, sure, sure it happened, But yet to
have a coming of age story that focuses on character
of color. Most of her friends are of color, and

(01:18:58):
the movie doesn't center whiteness. Said all is really I
mean shouldn't be remarkable, that should just be a thing
that already exists. But as we've said, there is uh
severe lack. I mean, this is the first Pixar feature
film directed by an Asian woman, and the only Pixar

(01:19:19):
movie directed by one woman at all. I think that
there's been like a woman who co directed, but never
like because the director of Brave she got like fucked over.
Yeah she got ye, but I don't remember if she
ended up with soul director credit or not, or maybe
it was okay, yeah, no dummy. She is the first

(01:19:42):
in many categories. And also there's like a majority, um,
most of the people working in high positions on this
show are on this movie are also women. She co
wrote with Julia Cho who is a famous playwright. Um,
so they We're Together is produced by women. There was

(01:20:04):
like the if you're interested in learning more, it's all
covered in that forty five minute documentary that happens. If
you watch all of the credits of Turning Red, it
just starts, um, but it it covers like all of
these like women in high positions making this movie during COVID.
Some of them are like trying to raise young children.

(01:20:26):
They're talking about like how it's been This is like
a really unique project in animation to have so many
women at the top of a project. And I know
everything Disney makes is essentially propaganda, but this felt like
propaganda that I liked propaganda. Yeah, it was making me smile,
and so it was. Yeah, It's like it's it's a

(01:20:46):
rarity on so many fronts because Picks, I feel like Pixar,
there have been like public scandals that have to do
with like how few women or people color or a
Pixar and it's like caused huge issues in the past.
So totally it seems like Toomi, she is like the
new wave and I thought it was cool that her.
She says in the documentary that her mentor is my

(01:21:12):
favorite Picks are director Pete Doctor who did Monsters Incorporated.
So he's been her mentor for a long time and
she like pitched him the idea and she tells this
anecdote that's really cool where she was like, I don't know,
should it be less culturally specific or like, are they
less likely to choose this idea to be turned into
a feature if it's culturally specific, and he I guess

(01:21:35):
he was like, nope, double down and cool she did
and the movie got So that's awesome. Who love it? Um?
Does anyone else have anything they want to talk about? No?
I just can't believe that growstall the moon literally the
day after and it's not addressed. That's the ship that

(01:21:55):
they didn't want to put in the documentary. They're like,
it's too dangerous. The whole grow situation, the whole weird
how that was kind of left out? Okay, because I
heard that Steve Carrell was having public tantrums about the
whole situation, could not let it go. Kevin wouldn't leave

(01:22:17):
his trailerk Kevin's was being a complete diva about it.
He was like, just pushed the date by a week
and they said, no, oh my god, Kevin Kevin culture wild. Um,
So yeah, I think. I mean that's about all I
have to Oh the last thing that was just very

(01:22:39):
two thousand two specific. Also, this made me laugh where
there are so many things about this movie that are
a first for Disney Pixar, but there were a few
random internet articles that were like the first Disney movie
to take blaze in Canada, and you're like, all right,
like that's whore. That is cool, and it feels like
when people are like Trailblazer Jill Biden is the first

(01:23:00):
Italian American first lady, and you're kind of like great,
I get like that's awesome. I actually do think it's
cool because, like I mean, all of Hollywood and like
Disney Media is is like very America centric, So I'm like,
what about our friendly neighbors to the north. The denizens
of Toronto were thrilled, and I guess that they really

(01:23:22):
like nailed it in terms of like I guess, even
the name of the stadium they perform att used to
have a different name, and they did it correctly and
it was all nice. In conclusion, the best thing that
happens in this movie is may making a power point
presentation to get what she wants. Um I have done that.
I did that because I wanted to do something abroad

(01:23:42):
and my dad said no. The answer to the power
point I've It's never been yes, You've always I don't
know what what happens in your brain. That's like this
will show them I'm a professional. It's like, actually, you
just proved to your parents you're a fucking wheenie. So
that's all that happens. You just did homework for free

(01:24:05):
and for work, just like you do at school, like
a chump, and then like we should walk out today. Well, um,
as far as the Bechtel test goes, this movie passes
very very handily. Yeah, no question about it. Between a
number of different combinations of characters. Yeah, it's kind of

(01:24:25):
an easy one. We don't need to break it down.
It happens between almost Men don't play a big role
in this movie really, except for the I do think
for some reason, four Time passes the Bechtel test for
me personally. I think because they're talking about us, like
they're talking about like them, like girls, and you know
they're they're they're passing it for us, and I think

(01:24:47):
that's nice. Absolutely. I agree. Yeah, so let's do the
nipple scale. Nipple scales zero to five nipples based on
how the movie fares when examining it through an intersectional faminess.
Lens enjoyed watching rica s face onine. We said the
Nile nipple scale. I was like, oh, I'm sorry, do

(01:25:07):
you have questions? Pretty self explained? I think I first
thought it might be like a pie chart of like
one nipple and like how much of the nipple you
feel it? I mean, you can interpret it that way
if you want to. The nipple scale is quite fluid.
For me, I would give Turning red. I would give

(01:25:30):
it for half or maybe even maybe. I just need
to talk through this. I think all my grapes with
the movie are just kind of like a little tiny
plotty things that I had questions about. But as far
as like what we analyze on the show, I don't
really have any complaints. I like the hell, that's how

(01:25:53):
I have to frame it too, because there I love complaining.
Then give it a five already. I think it's a
five nipples. Yeah, five nipples, no reason not to. I'll
give one to May one two Ming, who's voiced by Sandro.
I don't think we mentioned that, So I shout out
Chinese Canadian legend, and then I'll split the other three.

(01:26:21):
I'll give one to each of May's friends. I'm gonna
do five to I. I like with the like astrosk
of like I understand the criticism around the Tiger Mom trope,
but because it's like this is Domy, She's story, and
she's been pretty explicit about it, and so like with
that in mind, it's like I think that that the
takeaway from that is like you just need more movies

(01:26:42):
about Chinese, American, Chinese, Canadian, etcetera families Like that is
the thing. Totally. Yeah, I love this movie so much.
Um I am now DOMI she stand and I'm going
to give it five nipples kind of that's just the beginning, middle,
and end. I would say it would have been cool

(01:27:03):
like in this movie too. It was like, I don't know,
I don't want to say that, like boy bands are
a hetero construction. They're not, but it would have been
cool to like see you know, like preteen queerness. Like
I think that that would have been Yeah, there was
room for it. Maybe there's the quietest suggestion because Tyler
is also at the concert. The quietest suggestion because we

(01:27:27):
don't that doesn't mean anything whatever. But I also wondered
if there's a moment at the party where Miriam and
there's like a kind of goth emo girl they have
a kind of that it was pri and the goth girl.
Oh sorry what did I say? You said? Miriam? Oh,
I think it's Pa and the goth girl were dancing,

(01:27:47):
and then the other three girls were like whoo, like, oh,
I didn't even Okay, that didn't I didn't notice that
I was talking about. I think there's a moment where
they're doing like charades, and then one of them is like,
I'm thinking of a different moment at the party. There's
a charades moment and that actually might be pre two
now I don't totally remember, but it's one of the
friends and then like the goths girl who like have

(01:28:10):
a little like moment. Yeah, I noticed that too, So
maybe that's a suggestion, but it could be certainly more overt.
That's such a Disney move of like Josh Gad touches
another man's hand and homophobia is solved. You're like, give
it a rest. Anyways, that said, like, that's like a
very very small gripe for a movie that is so

(01:28:31):
fucking great. So I'm gonna give it five nipples, give
one to May, three to the friends, and I'm going
to give the last one to Dad's cooking. Yeah, rka,
how about you. I will give just as someone who
hasn't given nipples before. I'll see Moore and a half
because I think everything you said was true. It like

(01:28:52):
really takes a lot of boxes without even having to
think about it. You're not scrounging your memory to remember
how it satisfies. Like two people from a marginalized gender
talking to each other. It happens the entire fucking movie. Um,
and I think that's really exciting and cool. And if
I have to give my nipples out, if I don't

(01:29:14):
get to keep poured them, um, I mean that's also
on the table. No, I should be generous. I'm gonna
give Okay, I'll give to to May because I think
she earned it. I think she did a lot of work. Um,
I'm gonna give one Toming because she's done a lot
of work too. I'm gonna give one to the friends,

(01:29:36):
and one and a half to the aunties and the grandma.
Hell yeah, oh yeah, we did sleep on. Look, the
elder generations need nipples as well. That's what I was saying.
It's true, It's true. Well, thank you so much for
coming on this show again. Thank you for bringing us
this movie today. Thank you, thank you guys for having me.

(01:29:58):
What a blast. Oh my gosh, where can people check
out your stuff? Follow you online? Plug away on Twitter.
I'm at ka l Shankar so R e k h
A L s h A n k A R And
on Instagram, I'm at RecA Underscore s R e k
J Underscore s and you know, hire me watch Grand

(01:30:20):
Crew on Hulu Anemaniacs next year. I was like when
to say, I was, okay, Yes, what a treat. Animation rocks.
It's great. We love innovation and you can follow us
on Twitter and Instagram. At betel Cast. You can subscribe
to our Matreon at patreon dot com slash backtel Cast,

(01:30:41):
where you get two bonus episodes every month, plus access
to the entire back catalog of bonuses, which is now
over one hundred. So if you're running out of main
feed episode, scoot on over to the Matreon and there's
a lot more. And if you're compelled by the whole
groove situation, it's Minions March on the Matreon this July.

(01:31:02):
And so we did cover Despicable Me, where this revelation
originally came to pass, amongst other things. So head over
there you don't want to miss good for you, yea.
You can also get our merch at public dot com
slash the Bechtel cast Um. All right, shall we how
do we close this episode? Go to the I have

(01:31:23):
to go to the Four Town Reunion concert in Vegas,
and oh my god, wait, one of the members of
four Town isn't Q and on Now that was my
Backstreet Foe experience. But Brian, Brian, Oh no, he was,
Brian was Brian and Nick were my boys. And then
Nick's a creep and then Brian's Q. He was on parlor.

(01:31:45):
We should have we should have gone with a J.
We see, we should have known. AJ has been through
some stuff and came at the other end. He is strong. Well,
Kevin has always been a father to the whole group.
How is my problem with him? Originally he's a father
to the whole group, I know. But also it's fun
to reflect on because I'm like, I really thought Kevin
was a senior citizen because he was twenty six years old. Yeah, absolutely,

(01:32:07):
all right, Four Time Reunion Company. Okay, well, yeah, let's
let's go to the concert. Bye bye,