October 9, 2018 • 48 mins
This week, SCANDAL!!! While Peter is out of town, Beth throws all the podcast rules out the window and decides to record her half of the podcast without Peter. The single topic she decides to discuss, inspired by a listener email, just happens to be one of Peter’s biggest flaws. Peter, not knowing that any of this has happened, returns home just as Beth is leaving town on her own work trip to find half a podcast awaiting his response. This one gets personal. It’s our very first dual solo episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I got the same Hello and welcome to We Knows Parenting.
I'm Beth Newell, and not with me tonight is Peter McNerney.
I think he'll be joining you later in the episode. Um,
(00:24):
Peter is out of town this week. He is shooting
a commercial in New Orleans, living it up in the
city of sin I don't know what you call New Orleans,
the swamp city of sin Um. Anyway, I'm here with
the kids alone, surviving. Uh, doing pretty good so far actually,
But that's exactly the type of thing you say before
(00:45):
the ship hits the fan. So um, Peter gets back
Thursday night. I don't know one time I leave Friday morning.
So we're just going to tag team as usual. Uh,
and I guess we won't compare notes in front of
you this week. We will just I don't know if
(01:06):
Peter will listen to this, and I'll probably never listen
to it again, so um, well we'll figure it out anyway. Um.
So we're having a pretty good week here so far. Actually,
it's been miraculously good. My greatest fear of solo parenting
is taking the kids to and from daycare, because it's
(01:26):
always a mass mutiny for me. They smell change in
the air when I try to do this basic function
and they hate me. I don't know. So they have
been perfectly good going to daycare so far and coming home,
and I don't know what's different. I think it's probably
because at the beginning of the week they're a little
(01:47):
less exhausted. So when I try to slip in there
on a Thursday or Friday, uh, they freak out. Um.
So as good as everything has been going, I am
um constantly scared that the other shoe is going to
drop and something really horrible is going to happen. I
think I've talked in the past on the podcast about
how almost every time Peter goes out of town, we
(02:09):
all get sick and it ends up being horrible. And
then somehow may even always falls off the bed in
the middle of the night because she's sleeping with me
because she's sick and I'm losing my mind and I
need to get sleep. But this so far, fingers crossed.
Everything's going great this week. Um, But I got a
letter from school of course yesterday. Um. In Brand's backpack.
(02:30):
It says that he has been exposed to some things
at school. I guess they like to let you know
when other kids have had contagious diseases. So the list
of things that Brent has been exposed to today, sorry,
I'm finding pews, paper is lice, in patigo, conjunctivitis, and flew.
That's one week of exposure to four infectious diseases. I
(02:56):
have to say, I'm just really, really really hoping that
if in when he it's life, which he probably will,
it happens after I leave for my trip on Friday,
because I'm going on a trip with um a bunch
of other people. I want to have fun and most
of all, I don't want to be the person that
gives everyone life. That would be horrible. UM and UM, yeah,
(03:18):
I don't want any of these things. I especially don't
want em patigo because I'm going um my trip is
half play half work, half work half play. Anyway, the
work part of the trip, I would love to not
be in meetings with a big, ugly rash on my face,
which feels like the type of thing that would happen, right,
(03:40):
I don't know. Anyway, I'm trying to stay positive because
they actually do believe in manifesting, and I do not
want to manifest any of these things for this week.
So we're so healthy. This trip is going so great.
We're doing so well with Peter out of town. The
house is currently very very clean, because again, it feels
(04:02):
like if the thread starts to unravel, everything will explode.
It's the it's having being the sole parent. There's a
lot of pressure. I'm sure some of you have there
probably do this all the time, and so I'm sorry
for my ignorance, but literally every move I make is
like h and constant act of fear, and I'm afraid that,
(04:25):
for example, I will walk out into the hall to
take the recycling out into the hallway and my kids
will shut the door behind me and I'll be locked
out and it will be a massive emergency. So that's
what's going on in my mind. I clearly have some
anxiety issues. But anyway, we're doing really great. Everything is perfect.
(04:46):
I'm not going to freak out. Another thing you may
have noticed on this episode is that I am handling
the recording on my own. Um, I've never done this before.
I did not get much instruction from Peter before he left,
so um plugging this into garage band. It will probably
be lower quality audio than usual, or it will be
(05:10):
accidentally amazing audio quality and um, you know everyone will
be really impressed with me. So I'm recording this in
my bedroom, laying in bed, not Peter McNerney approved. Um
sound techniques going on here. He did try to call
(05:31):
me just now as I was texting him a question
about the podcast, and he I think he started to
realize I was going to try to record on my own,
and he started, uh freaking out, wanting to give me
a lot of advice about it. And I did ignore
him because it's a miracle that I'm doing this for
him or any of you right now as the solo
(05:52):
parent of the week. So you know, I'm just gonna say, like,
if this gets deleted, if if you never hear this,
I don't care. This is I've decided the amount of
effort I'm going to put in, and this is it.
And I'll say, also, I think this is a good
strategy for moms because it's personally, I find it really
(06:14):
hard not to be a perfectionist about everything, and when
you're a parent, it pretty instantly becomes clear that that
would be impossible, uh to live up to all of
your expectations because there's too much crap to do. There's
just you know, you can barely find time to get
a shower, and I'm sure most of you. So, UM,
(06:35):
I am drawing lines in the sand all over the
place these days in my life. I'm trying to get
the things done I want to get done, and I'm
trying to have some level of enjoyment to my life.
I think that's important. And I've also I've probably said
this on the podcast before, but I think that you
have to remember, even as much as it probably feels selfish,
(06:57):
particularly for women, to do things that you enjoy, you guys,
remember that you're setting an example for your kids of
how happy they should expect to be in their lives.
So I am choosing to believe from this point forward
that all of the joy I experience is setting an
example for my kids, and I'm trying to have a
fun life. Oh and I did halfway through this I
(07:20):
have to turn off my essential oil diffuser, which is
probably making some noises. Um. I'm I'm really into the
essential oil diffuser lately. Um. It's it has lavender oil
in it. It's very calming. I'm really into simple rituals
that help calm me down. At the end of the day, because,
(07:42):
as I've said, our lives are hectic, you've gotta decompress.
I'm also bought uh sixteen pound bag of EPs, some salt.
I'm gonna be taking some baths. This is a new
goal I have for myself, is to learn how to
relax and stop looking at screens and stop looking at
the news, and stopped looking at social media, not altogether,
(08:03):
just not you know, eighteen hours a day. So let
me be an example to you of restrained planned joy. Okay, wow, hi, Peter. Here,
Beth has hijacked the podcast, and um, that's fine, that's great.
(08:25):
But in true Beth fashion, she just did it. This.
Beth and I couldn't be more different in so many ways,
and the fact that, like I knew we were gonna
be out of town so we're probably gonna have to
do this over the phone. And then she was texting
me questions about the microphone. I was like, well, why
(08:46):
do you want to know? And then she just stopped
responding and she and as I have now just discovered,
she decided we're going to do uh double duo solo
podcast episode. Alright, Beth, I'll play your game. So I've
just listened to the first part. Um, I hear that
(09:07):
she has another section. So I'm gonna do my weekend
review all by myself before I listened to the next part.
And I'll let you know what's been up with me.
I was out of town. First of all. Right, now
I'm recording Beth is in l A. She is now
out of town. I've gone back. My kids are in
the room right now. Um. Do you hear them? They're
(09:28):
talking at full volume. Uh. We had a babysitter tonight.
So first of all, I got back from New Orleans,
um and Uh. I shot a commercial where I had
to eat about twenty spicy sandwiches um while shooting. And
I did all right, but boy, my body feels weird
(09:50):
after consuming that many calories and that much spicy mayo,
and so I'm not feeling my my tip top best.
But luckily I came home and my children are totally
different children in that I picked them up from school,
I brought them home, I fed them dinner, we watched
(10:11):
them TV. I put them to bed, we read books,
they went to sleep, and there was not a single meltdown.
There was not a single fight that happened. And I
did this. I've been with them now for three days
and there hasn't been even the mildest tantrum. I mean,
there's not a little bit of like Mayven being upset
(10:34):
I gave her the wrong cup. They sort of fight
over a plate. They both wanted the same plate, but
then Brent was like, well, I will use the plate
after Maven is done with the plate. And I was like,
who is this reasonable child not throwing a fit so
that he recognizing that his sister will throw a fit
if he's stubborn, And He's like, it doesn't matter to me,
(10:56):
I'll just literally he watched her eat an entire lunch,
uh and didn't eat because he was waiting for her
to be done so that he could use the Ladybug plate.
And it was a level of compromise that I don't
even know if I'm capable of being of compromising like that,
that level of patient it blew my mind. So tonight
(11:19):
I had to work. Wow can you hear how loud
they are right now in bed? So we have a routine,
and I'm I'm predicular particularly good at sticking to a routine.
I have less trouble than Beth does. Much of the
time in terms of like going to bed and laying
down the law. Uh. But so tonight the babysitter came
(11:44):
over and she's wonderful and she she works at daycare
so they know her. And I told her. I was like, listen,
I'm gonna be back around seven thirty. That's about when
bedtime is. Uh. So you don't have to put him
to bed, because I'll be back. But if I if
I'm late, I'll text you and i'll us you know.
So I get home at seven, I get to the door,
(12:05):
open the door. Literally it turns exactly and I walk
in and my kids are in bed. And I was like, oh, wow,
they're in bed. She's like, yeah, they're not asleep dead,
but they're in bed. And I go, okay, great, thank you.
All right, here's to give her the money. She leaves,
and this is this is terrible. They are going to
(12:29):
be awake talking for so much longer than if she
had not put them to bed. Because she had not
put them to bed. I would go in there and
we would brush our teeth and we would do jammys.
Then we would pick out some books and we would
read the books and we would get tired and then
we would get in bed and I turned out, closed
the door, turn off the light, and they're tired and
they go to sleep. But now she just put them
(12:52):
in there and turn off the light because she's all business.
She's great like that. But they're in there fully awake,
and now they're just riling each other up, and I've
I was like, I'm not gonna be able to start
recording until they're asleep, but that just went on too
long because now they're they were screaming at each other
and then you know, climbing up to the side of
(13:12):
their bed and doing like pro wrestler jumps onto the
bed and getting in a very big fight about whether
today was or was not Saturday. And Brent is very
adamant that yesterday was Saturday, Today is Sunday, Tomorrow is Monday, mayven,
and then May even just go, no, it's Saturday. I'm
trying to explain to Brann, she just doesn't want to
(13:33):
be you, to be right, she doesn't know what she's
talking about. And he would not accept that until finally
we compromise where I said, brand, you know what, you're right,
Monday is tomorrow, but maybe you're right because Saturday was
yesterday and she didn't really follow that, and she was
happy and they stopped screaming. Now they're just singing Yo
Gabba Gabba songs and talking very loudly and they're not crying.
(13:58):
So fine, it's okay. But they're gonna be up much
later because of the routine. I love a good routine.
And uh what I'm I gonna listen to see if
we hear what they're saying. I think they might be
talking about a party in my tummy so yummy, so yummy. Well,
(14:20):
I left my phone next to the door to record them,
so if there's anything juicy, anything good, I'll report back
another episode. Al Right, Well, I think that's enough of
the recap of my week. I'm here alone for the
whole rest of the week. Beth gets home next Saturday,
so in six days. Um, we'll record then we'll see
(14:44):
how we did. But uh, I guess back to Beth
to see what she has in store for the rest
of this episode and didn't tell me about it. Okay.
This next segment is called Listeners Want to Know. This
is where we take some letters from our listeners. Um,
(15:05):
this email I want to read to you guys is
not I guess it's not really a question. It's sort
of just observation. But um, this is a email that
I think Peter liked this email. But your guys, you
guys are sooning and find out why this email is
particularly fun for me. Um. This was in response to
(15:26):
the Peter is Not Defensive episode. This is where Peter
and I got in a very long argument and then
we shared it with you guys as if it was entertainment. Um, we're,
you know, on a tight schedule, and sometimes you get
what you get. But actually people really respond to this,
uh that episode, and so I'm gonna read you a
(15:48):
similar email in that vein. Okay, So my name is Trevor.
I live in Wichita, Kansas, and I absolutely love your podcast.
Maybe it's just an inherent husband versus wife a law
of nature, but I hilariously see so many parallels comparing
you two with my own personality and relationship with my wife,
enough to have me laughing out loud by myself parentheses
(16:11):
not ashamed. I want to keep this short because I
have a lot of work to do. I'm a stay
at home dad with a ten month old name. I'm
not going to say everything about this guy, um blah
blah blah. I had a great idea for the podcast
that I want to send real quick, and hopefully I'll
be able to elaborate on a future email. I'm certain
(16:33):
you remember the episode very well, but I had to
pause after the Diddy nose segment that became a full
blown argument to tell you I am so proud and
grateful for you guys who have still posted that recording
and not just decided to throw it out and try again.
It was wildly insightful, and I loved every minute of it.
I gotta say right off the bat on this one,
I'm team Beth all the way. Parentheses have to mention
(16:54):
that I'm definitely a swing state, so I'm not automatically
going to side with either of you, but dot dot dot,
I hope to have time to elaborate. Like I said
on why I'm with Beth on this topic, just wanted
to share a funny idea I had because I often
find that when you guys get going on something. I'm
sure you're aware, but Peter, you absolutely have a tendency
to dominate the conversation and try to take it somewhere
(17:17):
else without getting too into detail. I just want to
say that I struggle with the same thing, and I
noticed that it seems to sometimes come from a place
of being stuck wanting so badly to defend your original
point that you lose track of where your heart is
and what the intention of the argument really is. I
get it, I really do. That being said, and this
comes from having listened to all the episodes up to
(17:38):
this point, I think you guys need to implement a
Beth button. What is a Beth button? Well, a Beth
button is a buzzer of sorts that she gets to
use a predetermined number of times each podcast, like twice,
where she gets, say, twenty seconds to without interruption, present
her point. Peter, you don't get a button because you
(17:58):
have a built in button and you use it all
the time. I think this could help with the flow
of the podcast, because sometimes I'm really interested in what
Beth is trying to say, and Peter, you ruin it
and then you guys never get back to it. Ha ha. Anyway,
that being said, I have to backpedal a bit and
say that Peter, I definitely connect with you in a
lot of ways. I love your enthusiasm and sometimes I'm
(18:19):
totally on board when you're ready to shift the point
to keep the podcast flowing or navigate to the end
of this segment, I get it, L O L. I
love you guys, Keep it up, good luck with the kids.
I hope to replay the segment I just heard and
be able to write in again and actually weigh in
on the subject, but for now I'm off. Cheers. Thank you, Trevor.
(18:40):
Um that was I'm sure you guys can understand why
I appreciate that email. I think, um, you know, Trevor
seems to be very diplomatically making a point against Peter.
But um, yeah, I mean so speaking to this, I
want to say, I mean, first of all, for all
(19:02):
of the men listening who are maybe about to get defensive,
I'm when I make my constant, unyielding feminist points on
the podcast, I do want to say, uh, it comes
from a place of hope for men and belief and
faith that men can do well and sometimes do better
than they are currently doing. So, UM, I don't hate you, guys.
(19:27):
I obviously love Peter, who is my husband that I
chose to marry. As embarrassing is that can sometimes be
to say, as someone who grew up in a household
of restrained emotions. Anyway, Um, Peter does interrupt me a lot.
This is something so so a lot of Again I'm
just a goin to just sort of trying to catch
(19:48):
this in a way that feels not to attack e
towards Peter, who's not here and can't defend himself but
probably will on the latter half of this podcast. UM,
A lot of the issues that p Yer has I
have the reverse issue, so I don't. It's like we
are two weird mirrors that were put on this earth
(20:11):
to trigger each other constantly and learn and grow from
each other. And UM, it's sometimes very frustrating, and then
it's also I think been really good for both of us.
We've you know, we've been together for I don't know
eight million years now, and UM, I've known Peter since
(20:33):
I was twenty years old, which is insane. UM. And
so what the issue that is being pointed out by
this listener very kindly is that Peter has a tendency
to talk over me and railroad me. And this is
really funny that he pointed this out, because it's like
(20:54):
it's an ongoing issue in our relationship. But as also
the thing is that I have the reverse issue that
I think a lot of women have, which is not
speaking up for myself enough and not you know, having
a voice. And I think it's really hard to do
that when the men and other people around you are
constantly talking over you and interrupting. Which is not all
(21:16):
the time, but I think we do have a tendency
to talk over women, um, and people of color and
sort of railroad them or assume they don't know as
much what they're saying or whatever. Um, you get the point.
We've talked about this kind of thing a million times
in the podcast, but um, this is something I've known,
I think since the very beginning of knowing Peter, because
(21:39):
we both did improv. And I always say that, you know,
the great thing about improv, I think is it makes
your flaws glaringly blatant. And when you're performing on a
stage and you're supposed to be additive to a show,
when you're either not talking enough or talking way too much,
(22:00):
that's the kind of thing that becomes pretty obvious. Um.
And so these are things that Peter and I both
struggle with, both on stage and off, and probably will
for the rest of our lives. Apparently, UM, but I
think we've both gotten so much better, so UM, it
doesn't surprise me that Peter is getting this email. UM. Also,
(22:22):
sometimes we UM record this email. Sorry, we record this
podcast very late at night when we're both very tired,
and UM, you know, it's hard to be your best
self when you're tired, and that's when I sometimes, UM,
just you know, don't have the energy to fight with
(22:42):
Peter keep interrupting back or I lose my train of
thought when I'm being interrupted, And I yes, the the
the podcast sort of tends to go all over the place,
and so you know, some episodes are better than others.
You will have to forgive us for being tired parents
who you're trying to put out parent content. But I
(23:04):
think you guys seem to appreciate us highlighting these differences
with each other's and I do. I do think that
this one is very relatable. I don't think it's always um,
the man in the relationship that's talking over the woman.
Sometimes you get a really talking woman, sometimes you get
a really quiet man. Obviously, UM. But and I do
(23:25):
think it does seem that an opposite attractive thing happens
with a lot of couples regarding how much they want
to be talking, how much they want to be talking.
So anyway, my point, I don't know what's my point.
I think, Um, this listener makes I think a good
point about how both Peter and I can grow from this.
(23:47):
And I think also this is something that has been
highlighted over and over again by the podcast because Peter
very kindly, Um, you know, looks over these files after
we record, listens through and cleans it up sometimes and
he has to re listen to all of our arguments,
(24:09):
so he sometimes is able to hear me better when
he's listening to the episode. Later then he is able
to hear me when he's actually talking to me in
the room. Um. And so that's cool. It's nice. It's
nice to be heard. And it's weird that that is
(24:32):
what it takes sometimes to be heard. But I appreciate
in this new era, I want to say, the me
too era, but that sounds weird in the context of
this conversation. Um. In this me too era, I am
I'm trying to find positivity in all of the spaces
(24:54):
of growth that are occurring between men and women and
hopefully all too between white people people of color, queer people,
economically disadvantaged people. You get the points. So I think, um,
it's a time for all of us stricter trying to
listen better. It's a time for those of us who
haven't been heard to speak louder and speak up for
(25:17):
each other. And um, I I am happy to be
in a relationship where I feel Peter is trying. And
I think he said when he got this email, Um,
he said, this email is my worst nightmare. And I
texted him back and said, well, it's my current reality.
So I do want to say, for the men listening,
(25:40):
I think you know because I think this that me too,
has really trickled down to people's relationships and the amount
of bullshit some people want to put up with and
the amount of growth they're expecting of their partners. So
I want to say to you, yes, people are tired
of the way things have been going when whether it
(26:03):
comes to sharing the workload at home sharing, the emotional
labor of running a home, sharing, the child character sharing,
who gets to take up space in a room and
have opinions. But but I will say, I don't think
the people criticizing you or bringing up these issues are
(26:28):
always necessarily as angry as it feels like, because the
fact that they feel comfortable bringing them up shows that
they have a degree of respect for you and a
degree of hope that you are open to changing and
that you are open to listening and that there is
a way forward. So you know, when when we are
(26:52):
sometimes getting to the point of screaming at you, UM,
I'll say for for me, as someone who's quiet and
has a hard time like working up to that and
is easily spoken over on podcast recordings, AH, when I
do get to the point of sort of lashing out
or yelling or whatever, it's only because I've been trying
(27:16):
to get the words out for a long time. So
I just want to thank this listener for noticing. UM,
I'm really this email gives me so much hope that
a man would write in and say this. And you know,
we've had some other emails from our male listeners who've
had really thoughtful things to say, and I really appreciate that.
(27:37):
And uh, to the women, you're already killing it. Thank you. UM. Yeah, this, UM,
this email criticizing my husband made me feel great. UM. Anyway, UM,
on that note, I am going to try to wrap
this up and give myself a break as I finished
(27:57):
the next two days of solo unting my kids. I
need to decompress, go to bed, get up, and start
all over again. So thank you guys for listening, and
I'll hand this off to Peter. Now wow, okay, all right, boy,
(28:24):
all right, A lot of things are falling into place. Now.
Why I was not told about this? Somebody had a plan,
a sneaky plan to make a very good point in
a in a scenario in which I am unable to
respond moment to moment. This really speaks to, oh boy,
(28:48):
my strength and weaknesses and my desire to control everything, um,
even though like I'm the kind of person I want
everyone to be comfortable and if anyone who's even remotely uncomfortable,
I am gonna make it okay. And I do that
(29:09):
by dominating the conversation. Um. And obviously, oh there's a
downside of that. Okay. So I have so many things
to respond to. First of all, I there's not the
reason why this is so hard is because I know
(29:30):
that all of it is true. I know this about myself.
I grew up in a house with four boys, myself
included one of one of four of a very loud,
opinionated family, and everyone got along. But we have a
(29:50):
style of communication, uh, where you get people's attention by
by taking their attention. And we're all used to taking
the focus and and saying things that we have opinions,
and if people don't hear us, we repeat ourselves and
if people aren't listening, we don't take it personally. We
(30:12):
just know that you have to earn people's attention. And
I was the third of four, and so finding ways
to get people's attention became my whole deal. Because I
didn't have something interesting to say or something funny as
going to be ignored. And this is a very typical
middle child thing. Uh. And you know, so I got
(30:35):
attention by being funny, and I don't I don't know
how much. That's a story. I think a lot of
comedians like to tell as to why they're funny. Maybe
that's it's hardwired. I don't know. I don't care, but
this is how I am, and somehow, somehow, the universe,
which I don't believe is a thing with a point
(30:57):
of view or a will. Although Beth would disagree with me,
decided that Beth was the woman I should be with
and uh, And we could not have two more different
styles of communication because I will, if unchecked, I will
(31:20):
say everything I'm thinking and everything I'm feeling. And if
there's somebody around people who know me, I'll talk about
myself way too much, and I'm I'm aware of it
while it's happening, and I have to tell myself now
it's time to shut up. So I'll blah blah blab
and then I'll shut up and like shut down because
I realized I've I've hit my quota. But if I
(31:40):
had not met Beth and started dating her, I would
be so much less self aware. I am able now
to recognize, oh no, I just dominated the conversation. I
need to shut up and listen, Whereas before I would
just keep going, just keep going. I first did my
(32:00):
first my first date with Beth. I was so nervous
because she wouldn't say anything. I was like late. I
remember sitting down at this restaurant and I was like, hey, sorry,
I'm sorry late. I was just like a little weird,
weird track from the subway. I just saw the biggest dog.
You know, It's like my who wants to talk to
that big in Brooklyn and anyway, and she just sit
(32:23):
there and listen. She wouldn't shime in, so I just
keep going and just keep talking. In my mind, I'm like,
this is a disaster. I'm blowing it. She hates us.
I have no idea what she thinks, but I couldn't
breathe for two seconds to let her speak. And we
kept going out and it was it wasn't easy. It
(32:45):
took a while for me to be comfortable. And the
big thing that happened was I allowed myself to be
silent sometimes. And because Beth she needs a long runway
to get to get going. And it's not just that
I it's not just that I dominated conversations, which I do,
(33:09):
but Beth truly is the opposite. And it's it's not
just a gender thing it is it is a personality type.
And she she communicates in a way. And you, you
guys know a different Beath than I do. You know,
the chatt the chattiest version of Beth that's ever existed.
(33:31):
Because she's on a podcast and she has to talk
the whole time. I've gotten to know way more about
her from doing this podcast with her than being married
to her for eight years. And she's the type of
person that hears and considers everything that is said around her.
(33:51):
And it took me a long time to understand that
that that process takes time. She internalizes things things, and
she thinks about it, and so when she speaks, it's
it's not the first time it's occurring to her. She's
processed it, she's thought about it, not every time. She
sort of plays that card too much. If you ask me,
(34:14):
whereas I I am saying things to try them out,
I say I have opinions, I say them out loud
and I see how they fit. And I've gotten really
good at speaking in a way that sounds like I
know what I'm talking about some of the time, and uh,
that is how I have been able to learn, and
(34:36):
I do it out loud. And I've been around people
that communicating a similar similar way, like my family members.
I hang out with my mom, and I've said this before.
We can have too entirely separate conversations at the same time,
and we're both perfectly content because I only I only
pay attention when she says something that's that makes me go, oh,
(34:56):
that's interesting, and a lot of it sort of passes
through me um and she does the same. We're we're
just sort of looking for keywords, we latch on the things,
whereas Beth, here's all of it and it's overwhelming. And
so getting back to dating her learning to shut up
(35:17):
and not need there, not needing there to be a
next thing, and just to breathe. And then also realized
like maybe we're just not going to chat for a while.
And early on I felt like that was a failure,
and then it became a gift. Two start to actually
(35:39):
be able to be present and to not worry about
what's next, but rather to be aware of what's here. Now.
You know, if if you go exploring, you know, if
Beth and I go out into the metaphorical woods, my
(35:59):
brain is going to go, how much how much mileage
can we can we can we hit? You know, let's
let's see as many places as we can. Let's go,
let's go, let's go. Whereas Beth can cover less ground
and see far more. You know, she can sit in
one place and notice all the details on this one tree,
and if you just get calm and still and look close,
(36:21):
you realize there's a whole world in like a patch
of grass, and she can have observe more in that
patch of grass than I do, trying to cover as
much ground as I possibly can. And that has been
an incredible life lesson for me that when Beth and
I spend quality time together, it's quality time, and but
(36:45):
a lot of the time we spend in separate rooms.
Beth needs her space and I I didn't understand that
for so long, and I felt like if we were
not hanging out every single night that something was wrong.
But now it's like we've been together for so long.
We don't talk to each other for a couple of
(37:07):
days because someone gets home late, and then when we
do have time and we do something together, it means something,
and uh, and I really appreciate that. So just to
hit some points of things that Beth was talking about,
I tried to take notes. She referenced improv, which, if
you're not familiar with the improv world, we do long
(37:31):
form improv, which is, you know, I do a show
us just two people, me and my best friend Nick.
We get a title, someone gives us the title of
the show, and we improvise sixty minutes of a play,
essentially with a bunch of characters. And this is something
I'm very good at because I'm the type of person
that can act before I, uh speak, before I fully
(37:54):
understand what I'm doing. So I am able to create
the illusion of familiarity and history in an improv scene
because I'll start as if it's true, and as I'm
saying something, the implications of it and the context, the
context of the that line that scenario will give me
what's next, and then I'm already onto the next thing.
(38:15):
And then I know everything about my character and this scene, um,
without having to stop and think about it. And that's
the whole point of improv, is to trust your impulses
and find yourself in the middle of something as opposed
to stopping to decide where you want to go. Um
And and I'm very good at it. And it's also
(38:36):
it's a totally appropriate thing to do in improv, which
is to listen to your scene partner just enough so
that whatever they say, Like when Nick says something to
be in our show, my job is to assume that
I know what he means. I'm going to assume what
the larger implications of what he's saying, uh, the implications are,
(38:58):
so I don't don't I don't stop and think about
the whole thing. I make a big assumptions about what
he meant, and it's not always what he meant, but
it makes it in improv, it's my job not to
get his idea right, it's just to move it forward.
And so there's this back and forth where I don't
have to know what he means. I just have to
pretend like I know what he means, and we're able
(39:18):
to construct things very quickly and seamlessly. This is great
for improv. In real life this is not so great
a skill in which and I do this to Beth
all the time, where she'll as soon as I understand
the gist of what she's talking about, I act like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know what you're saying and probably all this, and
(39:39):
so I'm already responding. But the problem is is that
there is often more to it, or it's not what
she meant, and I haven't given it the three extra
seconds it needs to fully articulate itself. And Beth is right, like,
I edit this podcast and it is the second time
(40:01):
that I sit down and listen that I learned, uh,
and I realize how smart my wife is. And another thought,
despite the fact that despite the fact that I do
think I have dramatically improved over the years in my
listening abilities. Again, it's it's less that I'm suddenly way better.
(40:25):
It's more that I can recognize that I'm doing it
and hopefully be able to reverse it, or recognize that
people are reacting to me as if I've just interrupted
and blabbed on it's time to shut up for a while.
But in other parts of my life I know that
it has gotten worse. The big thing is, uh, I
(40:48):
teach improv, and so I for many or for ten years,
I've had at least one class a week where I
have sixteen people whose job is it is to listen
to me. And I teach the upper level students at
the Magnet Theater and I love it um but it's
a captive audience that if they've they're sold on improv,
(41:13):
they want to be here, they're they're at a certain level,
and they take everything I say seriously, and they're not
giving me as as much as real life. The social
cues that I need to shut up, So I know
that I ramble on and I am I don't use
(41:34):
class time as efficiently as other teachers because I get
really excited about things that we're talking about, and I
start explaining an idea and that leads me to another idea,
and I start explaining that, and then I'm making jokes
about myself and I've just wasted twenty minutes. And it's
gotten worse over the years. One because I'm better at teaching.
(41:55):
I recognize more things, but I've I don't have people
telling me to shut up, and so it just it creates,
it reinforces this idea that everyone wants to hear what
I have to say, and I have to remind myself
that this is not real life. This is an artificial
social environment where uh people want to hear me. Uh.
(42:21):
And also because I again I live with a woman
that's not super chit chatty that I don't get that
at home. And so when I go and suddenly there's
these people who want to listen to me, I'm like,
I have all this power, and this power is corrupting me.
I go stand on stage and there's you know, seventy
people in these seats who have paid money to listen
(42:43):
to me, and their job is to not talk. And
that is where I am the most comfortable, where we
just all agreed that we're gonna listen to Peter talk
for an hour. And that's that's powerful, and it's a
it's addictive, addicting, addictive. I'm addicted to it, the attention,
(43:06):
the applause. I'm yelling and I'm home alone right now.
Oh God, See, this is a nightmare. So I want
to respond to this email which I got and I
read it and but it was it was written so
diplomatically and so nice Leah that oh I was like
(43:30):
I did best, said, I texted her this email is
my worst nightmare because I know that it's true. I mean,
doing this right now, this is this is all I'm thinking,
is Peter, you need to shut up. I'm I'm supposed
to be the only one talking. Beth recorded this alone,
and the idea that I talk over her, which I
(43:51):
knew would be an issue when we started doing this, uh,
is terrible. So I will say about the idea of
giving Beth a Beth buzzer, I reject it wholeheartedly, and
I here's why. And it's not because it's not a
great idea or that it wouldn't be useful to Beth.
But for the same reason I thought about maybe we
(44:12):
shouldn't read this email because as soon as we now
bring this up, those of you who have not had
the thought that I dominate the conversation, now this is
ten times more true and you're gonna be listening for it.
And that's why I didn't. I wanted to be like,
I'm going to take the note and I'm gonna be
better about listening. But I don't want to bring it
(44:32):
up because then everyone's gonna listen and be like, he's
doing it again. FU that guy. But I'm gonna be bold.
I'm gonna be brave and allow myself to be vulnerable
to all of you and let you know that this
is something I will. I am committed. I'm committed to
(44:56):
trying to improve and if I need to risk having
you all be aware of it and listening for it.
Boy that if that isn't motivation, I don't know what
it is, because I have had the same reaction. I've
listened to the podcasts where there are people that don't
share the focus, and as soon as I become aware
of the idea, that's all I can hear, and then
(45:19):
the rest of the time I'm like, just shut up.
I hate this guy, and it is always a guy.
Not that women aren't capable of this. Um My mom
and I are very similar. She can dominate a conversation
the same way I can, but on podcast is so
usually a dude, and I'm like, come on, guy, I
(45:39):
can recognize it in other men. You know. I'm an
improv teacher. I am hyper aware of these gender stereotypes
and these behaviors, and I see it in the realms
that I work in, and especially over the last several years.
Um Beth being a huge help in pointing these things
(46:00):
is out to me. I see things I wasn't aware
of before. But it's much easier to see it in
other people than in yourself, especially if you're somebody that
processes everything out loud, like I am doing right now.
Do you hear how fast time talking? This is what
happens when I have nothing to bounce off of. I
need things to land, and so I'm I'm just I'm
(46:23):
rambling at a million miles an hour. Anyway, we're putting
this podcast out there, this episode, and now, this is
a thing that's true. I'm not going to give Beth
a buzzer, because if I explain the buzzer at the
top of every episode, I'm asking everyone to listen for
me to me, for me to interrupt her, and I
(46:43):
don't want that to be something everyone's focused on, but
I am going to do it in this episode. So
you've heard it. You can keep me honest what I'd
like to talk, you know, and Beth, if you if
you totally get out of her way, there's gonna be
gaps in the podcast, and that's s's boring. Come on,
(47:04):
I gotta keep it fun. That was a joke, very real.
Uh god, do I have more to say? If I've
talked longer than Beth, I really haven't learned anything, have I?
I love you, mu devious wife you. I can't believe
(47:24):
she didn't tell me she's gonna do this. I take
it back. It's the most best thing that's ever happened.
I love you all, I trust you all. I don't
know how to say goodbye. This has been we Knows Parenting.
If you'd like to see more from us, you can
(47:46):
find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at we knows pod,
and you can email us at we Knows Pod at
gmail dot com. We also have a Google voicemail number
if you'd like to leave us an audio message that
would be great for us to play on the podcast.
(48:07):
Um send us your questions at three four seven, three
eight four seven three nine six. Also, please rate, review,
and subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or wherever you
get your Apple podcasts by
I got the same Hello and welcome to We Knows Parenting.
I'm Beth Newell, and not with me tonight is Peter McNerney.
I think he'll be joining you later in the episode. Um,
(00:24):
Peter is out of town this week. He is shooting
a commercial in New Orleans, living it up in the
city of sin I don't know what you call New Orleans,
the swamp city of sin Um. Anyway, I'm here with
the kids alone, surviving. Uh, doing pretty good so far actually,
But that's exactly the type of thing you say before
(00:45):
the ship hits the fan. So um, Peter gets back
Thursday night. I don't know one time I leave Friday morning.
So we're just going to tag team as usual. Uh,
and I guess we won't compare notes in front of
you this week. We will just I don't know if
(01:06):
Peter will listen to this, and I'll probably never listen
to it again, so um, well we'll figure it out anyway. Um.
So we're having a pretty good week here so far. Actually,
it's been miraculously good. My greatest fear of solo parenting
is taking the kids to and from daycare, because it's
(01:26):
always a mass mutiny for me. They smell change in
the air when I try to do this basic function
and they hate me. I don't know. So they have
been perfectly good going to daycare so far and coming home,
and I don't know what's different. I think it's probably
because at the beginning of the week they're a little
(01:47):
less exhausted. So when I try to slip in there
on a Thursday or Friday, uh, they freak out. Um.
So as good as everything has been going, I am
um constantly scared that the other shoe is going to
drop and something really horrible is going to happen. I
think I've talked in the past on the podcast about
how almost every time Peter goes out of town, we
(02:09):
all get sick and it ends up being horrible. And
then somehow may even always falls off the bed in
the middle of the night because she's sleeping with me
because she's sick and I'm losing my mind and I
need to get sleep. But this so far, fingers crossed.
Everything's going great this week. Um, But I got a
letter from school of course yesterday. Um. In Brand's backpack.
(02:30):
It says that he has been exposed to some things
at school. I guess they like to let you know
when other kids have had contagious diseases. So the list
of things that Brent has been exposed to today, sorry,
I'm finding pews, paper is lice, in patigo, conjunctivitis, and flew.
That's one week of exposure to four infectious diseases. I
(02:56):
have to say, I'm just really, really really hoping that
if in when he it's life, which he probably will,
it happens after I leave for my trip on Friday,
because I'm going on a trip with um a bunch
of other people. I want to have fun and most
of all, I don't want to be the person that
gives everyone life. That would be horrible. UM and UM, yeah,
(03:18):
I don't want any of these things. I especially don't
want em patigo because I'm going um my trip is
half play half work, half work half play. Anyway, the
work part of the trip, I would love to not
be in meetings with a big, ugly rash on my face,
which feels like the type of thing that would happen, right,
(03:40):
I don't know. Anyway, I'm trying to stay positive because
they actually do believe in manifesting, and I do not
want to manifest any of these things for this week.
So we're so healthy. This trip is going so great.
We're doing so well with Peter out of town. The
house is currently very very clean, because again, it feels
(04:02):
like if the thread starts to unravel, everything will explode.
It's the it's having being the sole parent. There's a
lot of pressure. I'm sure some of you have there
probably do this all the time, and so I'm sorry
for my ignorance, but literally every move I make is
like h and constant act of fear, and I'm afraid that,
(04:25):
for example, I will walk out into the hall to
take the recycling out into the hallway and my kids
will shut the door behind me and I'll be locked
out and it will be a massive emergency. So that's
what's going on in my mind. I clearly have some
anxiety issues. But anyway, we're doing really great. Everything is perfect.
(04:46):
I'm not going to freak out. Another thing you may
have noticed on this episode is that I am handling
the recording on my own. Um, I've never done this before.
I did not get much instruction from Peter before he left,
so um plugging this into garage band. It will probably
be lower quality audio than usual, or it will be
(05:10):
accidentally amazing audio quality and um, you know everyone will
be really impressed with me. So I'm recording this in
my bedroom, laying in bed, not Peter McNerney approved. Um
sound techniques going on here. He did try to call
(05:31):
me just now as I was texting him a question
about the podcast, and he I think he started to
realize I was going to try to record on my own,
and he started, uh freaking out, wanting to give me
a lot of advice about it. And I did ignore
him because it's a miracle that I'm doing this for
him or any of you right now as the solo
(05:52):
parent of the week. So you know, I'm just gonna say, like,
if this gets deleted, if if you never hear this,
I don't care. This is I've decided the amount of
effort I'm going to put in, and this is it.
And I'll say, also, I think this is a good
strategy for moms because it's personally, I find it really
(06:14):
hard not to be a perfectionist about everything, and when
you're a parent, it pretty instantly becomes clear that that
would be impossible, uh to live up to all of
your expectations because there's too much crap to do. There's
just you know, you can barely find time to get
a shower, and I'm sure most of you. So, UM,
(06:35):
I am drawing lines in the sand all over the
place these days in my life. I'm trying to get
the things done I want to get done, and I'm
trying to have some level of enjoyment to my life.
I think that's important. And I've also I've probably said
this on the podcast before, but I think that you
have to remember, even as much as it probably feels selfish,
(06:57):
particularly for women, to do things that you enjoy, you guys,
remember that you're setting an example for your kids of
how happy they should expect to be in their lives.
So I am choosing to believe from this point forward
that all of the joy I experience is setting an
example for my kids, and I'm trying to have a
fun life. Oh and I did halfway through this I
(07:20):
have to turn off my essential oil diffuser, which is
probably making some noises. Um. I'm I'm really into the
essential oil diffuser lately. Um. It's it has lavender oil
in it. It's very calming. I'm really into simple rituals
that help calm me down. At the end of the day, because,
(07:42):
as I've said, our lives are hectic, you've gotta decompress.
I'm also bought uh sixteen pound bag of EPs, some salt.
I'm gonna be taking some baths. This is a new
goal I have for myself, is to learn how to
relax and stop looking at screens and stop looking at
the news, and stopped looking at social media, not altogether,
(08:03):
just not you know, eighteen hours a day. So let
me be an example to you of restrained planned joy. Okay, wow, hi, Peter. Here,
Beth has hijacked the podcast, and um, that's fine, that's great.
(08:25):
But in true Beth fashion, she just did it. This.
Beth and I couldn't be more different in so many ways,
and the fact that, like I knew we were gonna
be out of town so we're probably gonna have to
do this over the phone. And then she was texting
me questions about the microphone. I was like, well, why
(08:46):
do you want to know? And then she just stopped
responding and she and as I have now just discovered,
she decided we're going to do uh double duo solo
podcast episode. Alright, Beth, I'll play your game. So I've
just listened to the first part. Um, I hear that
(09:07):
she has another section. So I'm gonna do my weekend
review all by myself before I listened to the next part.
And I'll let you know what's been up with me.
I was out of town. First of all. Right, now
I'm recording Beth is in l A. She is now
out of town. I've gone back. My kids are in
the room right now. Um. Do you hear them? They're
(09:28):
talking at full volume. Uh. We had a babysitter tonight.
So first of all, I got back from New Orleans,
um and Uh. I shot a commercial where I had
to eat about twenty spicy sandwiches um while shooting. And
I did all right, but boy, my body feels weird
(09:50):
after consuming that many calories and that much spicy mayo,
and so I'm not feeling my my tip top best.
But luckily I came home and my children are totally
different children in that I picked them up from school,
I brought them home, I fed them dinner, we watched
(10:11):
them TV. I put them to bed, we read books,
they went to sleep, and there was not a single meltdown.
There was not a single fight that happened. And I
did this. I've been with them now for three days
and there hasn't been even the mildest tantrum. I mean,
there's not a little bit of like Mayven being upset
(10:34):
I gave her the wrong cup. They sort of fight
over a plate. They both wanted the same plate, but
then Brent was like, well, I will use the plate
after Maven is done with the plate. And I was like,
who is this reasonable child not throwing a fit so
that he recognizing that his sister will throw a fit
if he's stubborn, And He's like, it doesn't matter to me,
(10:56):
I'll just literally he watched her eat an entire lunch,
uh and didn't eat because he was waiting for her
to be done so that he could use the Ladybug plate.
And it was a level of compromise that I don't
even know if I'm capable of being of compromising like that,
that level of patient it blew my mind. So tonight
(11:19):
I had to work. Wow can you hear how loud
they are right now in bed? So we have a routine,
and I'm I'm predicular particularly good at sticking to a routine.
I have less trouble than Beth does. Much of the
time in terms of like going to bed and laying
down the law. Uh. But so tonight the babysitter came
(11:44):
over and she's wonderful and she she works at daycare
so they know her. And I told her. I was like, listen,
I'm gonna be back around seven thirty. That's about when
bedtime is. Uh. So you don't have to put him
to bed, because I'll be back. But if I if
I'm late, I'll text you and i'll us you know.
So I get home at seven, I get to the door,
(12:05):
open the door. Literally it turns exactly and I walk
in and my kids are in bed. And I was like, oh, wow,
they're in bed. She's like, yeah, they're not asleep dead,
but they're in bed. And I go, okay, great, thank you.
All right, here's to give her the money. She leaves,
and this is this is terrible. They are going to
(12:29):
be awake talking for so much longer than if she
had not put them to bed. Because she had not
put them to bed. I would go in there and
we would brush our teeth and we would do jammys.
Then we would pick out some books and we would
read the books and we would get tired and then
we would get in bed and I turned out, closed
the door, turn off the light, and they're tired and
they go to sleep. But now she just put them
(12:52):
in there and turn off the light because she's all business.
She's great like that. But they're in there fully awake,
and now they're just riling each other up, and I've
I was like, I'm not gonna be able to start
recording until they're asleep, but that just went on too
long because now they're they were screaming at each other
and then you know, climbing up to the side of
(13:12):
their bed and doing like pro wrestler jumps onto the
bed and getting in a very big fight about whether
today was or was not Saturday. And Brent is very
adamant that yesterday was Saturday, Today is Sunday, Tomorrow is Monday, mayven,
and then May even just go, no, it's Saturday. I'm
trying to explain to Brann, she just doesn't want to
(13:33):
be you, to be right, she doesn't know what she's
talking about. And he would not accept that until finally
we compromise where I said, brand, you know what, you're right,
Monday is tomorrow, but maybe you're right because Saturday was
yesterday and she didn't really follow that, and she was
happy and they stopped screaming. Now they're just singing Yo
Gabba Gabba songs and talking very loudly and they're not crying.
(13:58):
So fine, it's okay. But they're gonna be up much
later because of the routine. I love a good routine.
And uh what I'm I gonna listen to see if
we hear what they're saying. I think they might be
talking about a party in my tummy so yummy, so yummy. Well,
(14:20):
I left my phone next to the door to record them,
so if there's anything juicy, anything good, I'll report back
another episode. Al Right, Well, I think that's enough of
the recap of my week. I'm here alone for the
whole rest of the week. Beth gets home next Saturday,
so in six days. Um, we'll record then we'll see
(14:44):
how we did. But uh, I guess back to Beth
to see what she has in store for the rest
of this episode and didn't tell me about it. Okay.
This next segment is called Listeners Want to Know. This
is where we take some letters from our listeners. Um,
(15:05):
this email I want to read to you guys is
not I guess it's not really a question. It's sort
of just observation. But um, this is a email that
I think Peter liked this email. But your guys, you
guys are sooning and find out why this email is
particularly fun for me. Um. This was in response to
(15:26):
the Peter is Not Defensive episode. This is where Peter
and I got in a very long argument and then
we shared it with you guys as if it was entertainment. Um, we're,
you know, on a tight schedule, and sometimes you get
what you get. But actually people really respond to this,
uh that episode, and so I'm gonna read you a
(15:48):
similar email in that vein. Okay, So my name is Trevor.
I live in Wichita, Kansas, and I absolutely love your podcast.
Maybe it's just an inherent husband versus wife a law
of nature, but I hilariously see so many parallels comparing
you two with my own personality and relationship with my wife,
enough to have me laughing out loud by myself parentheses
(16:11):
not ashamed. I want to keep this short because I
have a lot of work to do. I'm a stay
at home dad with a ten month old name. I'm
not going to say everything about this guy, um blah
blah blah. I had a great idea for the podcast
that I want to send real quick, and hopefully I'll
be able to elaborate on a future email. I'm certain
(16:33):
you remember the episode very well, but I had to
pause after the Diddy nose segment that became a full
blown argument to tell you I am so proud and
grateful for you guys who have still posted that recording
and not just decided to throw it out and try again.
It was wildly insightful, and I loved every minute of it.
I gotta say right off the bat on this one,
I'm team Beth all the way. Parentheses have to mention
(16:54):
that I'm definitely a swing state, so I'm not automatically
going to side with either of you, but dot dot dot,
I hope to have time to elaborate. Like I said
on why I'm with Beth on this topic, just wanted
to share a funny idea I had because I often
find that when you guys get going on something. I'm
sure you're aware, but Peter, you absolutely have a tendency
to dominate the conversation and try to take it somewhere
(17:17):
else without getting too into detail. I just want to
say that I struggle with the same thing, and I
noticed that it seems to sometimes come from a place
of being stuck wanting so badly to defend your original
point that you lose track of where your heart is
and what the intention of the argument really is. I
get it, I really do. That being said, and this
comes from having listened to all the episodes up to
(17:38):
this point, I think you guys need to implement a
Beth button. What is a Beth button? Well, a Beth
button is a buzzer of sorts that she gets to
use a predetermined number of times each podcast, like twice,
where she gets, say, twenty seconds to without interruption, present
her point. Peter, you don't get a button because you
(17:58):
have a built in button and you use it all
the time. I think this could help with the flow
of the podcast, because sometimes I'm really interested in what
Beth is trying to say, and Peter, you ruin it
and then you guys never get back to it. Ha ha. Anyway,
that being said, I have to backpedal a bit and
say that Peter, I definitely connect with you in a
lot of ways. I love your enthusiasm and sometimes I'm
(18:19):
totally on board when you're ready to shift the point
to keep the podcast flowing or navigate to the end
of this segment, I get it, L O L. I
love you guys, Keep it up, good luck with the kids.
I hope to replay the segment I just heard and
be able to write in again and actually weigh in
on the subject, but for now I'm off. Cheers. Thank you, Trevor.
(18:40):
Um that was I'm sure you guys can understand why
I appreciate that email. I think, um, you know, Trevor
seems to be very diplomatically making a point against Peter.
But um, yeah, I mean so speaking to this, I
want to say, I mean, first of all, for all
(19:02):
of the men listening who are maybe about to get defensive,
I'm when I make my constant, unyielding feminist points on
the podcast, I do want to say, uh, it comes
from a place of hope for men and belief and
faith that men can do well and sometimes do better
than they are currently doing. So, UM, I don't hate you, guys.
(19:27):
I obviously love Peter, who is my husband that I
chose to marry. As embarrassing is that can sometimes be
to say, as someone who grew up in a household
of restrained emotions. Anyway, Um, Peter does interrupt me a lot.
This is something so so a lot of Again I'm
just a goin to just sort of trying to catch
(19:48):
this in a way that feels not to attack e
towards Peter, who's not here and can't defend himself but
probably will on the latter half of this podcast. UM,
A lot of the issues that p Yer has I
have the reverse issue, so I don't. It's like we
are two weird mirrors that were put on this earth
(20:11):
to trigger each other constantly and learn and grow from
each other. And UM, it's sometimes very frustrating, and then
it's also I think been really good for both of us.
We've you know, we've been together for I don't know
eight million years now, and UM, I've known Peter since
(20:33):
I was twenty years old, which is insane. UM. And
so what the issue that is being pointed out by
this listener very kindly is that Peter has a tendency
to talk over me and railroad me. And this is
really funny that he pointed this out, because it's like
(20:54):
it's an ongoing issue in our relationship. But as also
the thing is that I have the reverse issue that
I think a lot of women have, which is not
speaking up for myself enough and not you know, having
a voice. And I think it's really hard to do
that when the men and other people around you are
constantly talking over you and interrupting. Which is not all
(21:16):
the time, but I think we do have a tendency
to talk over women, um, and people of color and
sort of railroad them or assume they don't know as
much what they're saying or whatever. Um, you get the point.
We've talked about this kind of thing a million times
in the podcast, but um, this is something I've known,
I think since the very beginning of knowing Peter, because
(21:39):
we both did improv. And I always say that, you know,
the great thing about improv, I think is it makes
your flaws glaringly blatant. And when you're performing on a
stage and you're supposed to be additive to a show,
when you're either not talking enough or talking way too much,
(22:00):
that's the kind of thing that becomes pretty obvious. Um.
And so these are things that Peter and I both
struggle with, both on stage and off, and probably will
for the rest of our lives. Apparently, UM, but I
think we've both gotten so much better, so UM, it
doesn't surprise me that Peter is getting this email. UM. Also,
(22:22):
sometimes we UM record this email. Sorry, we record this
podcast very late at night when we're both very tired,
and UM, you know, it's hard to be your best
self when you're tired, and that's when I sometimes, UM,
just you know, don't have the energy to fight with
(22:42):
Peter keep interrupting back or I lose my train of
thought when I'm being interrupted, And I yes, the the
the podcast sort of tends to go all over the place,
and so you know, some episodes are better than others.
You will have to forgive us for being tired parents
who you're trying to put out parent content. But I
(23:04):
think you guys seem to appreciate us highlighting these differences
with each other's and I do. I do think that
this one is very relatable. I don't think it's always um,
the man in the relationship that's talking over the woman.
Sometimes you get a really talking woman, sometimes you get
a really quiet man. Obviously, UM. But and I do
(23:25):
think it does seem that an opposite attractive thing happens
with a lot of couples regarding how much they want
to be talking, how much they want to be talking.
So anyway, my point, I don't know what's my point.
I think, Um, this listener makes I think a good
point about how both Peter and I can grow from this.
(23:47):
And I think also this is something that has been
highlighted over and over again by the podcast because Peter
very kindly, Um, you know, looks over these files after
we record, listens through and cleans it up sometimes and
he has to re listen to all of our arguments,
(24:09):
so he sometimes is able to hear me better when
he's listening to the episode. Later then he is able
to hear me when he's actually talking to me in
the room. Um. And so that's cool. It's nice. It's
nice to be heard. And it's weird that that is
(24:32):
what it takes sometimes to be heard. But I appreciate
in this new era, I want to say, the me
too era, but that sounds weird in the context of
this conversation. Um. In this me too era, I am
I'm trying to find positivity in all of the spaces
(24:54):
of growth that are occurring between men and women and
hopefully all too between white people people of color, queer people,
economically disadvantaged people. You get the points. So I think, um,
it's a time for all of us stricter trying to
listen better. It's a time for those of us who
haven't been heard to speak louder and speak up for
(25:17):
each other. And um, I I am happy to be
in a relationship where I feel Peter is trying. And
I think he said when he got this email, Um,
he said, this email is my worst nightmare. And I
texted him back and said, well, it's my current reality.
So I do want to say, for the men listening,
(25:40):
I think you know because I think this that me too,
has really trickled down to people's relationships and the amount
of bullshit some people want to put up with and
the amount of growth they're expecting of their partners. So
I want to say to you, yes, people are tired
of the way things have been going when whether it
(26:03):
comes to sharing the workload at home sharing, the emotional
labor of running a home, sharing, the child character sharing,
who gets to take up space in a room and
have opinions. But but I will say, I don't think
the people criticizing you or bringing up these issues are
(26:28):
always necessarily as angry as it feels like, because the
fact that they feel comfortable bringing them up shows that
they have a degree of respect for you and a
degree of hope that you are open to changing and
that you are open to listening and that there is
a way forward. So you know, when when we are
(26:52):
sometimes getting to the point of screaming at you, UM,
I'll say for for me, as someone who's quiet and
has a hard time like working up to that and
is easily spoken over on podcast recordings, AH, when I
do get to the point of sort of lashing out
or yelling or whatever, it's only because I've been trying
(27:16):
to get the words out for a long time. So
I just want to thank this listener for noticing. UM,
I'm really this email gives me so much hope that
a man would write in and say this. And you know,
we've had some other emails from our male listeners who've
had really thoughtful things to say, and I really appreciate that.
(27:37):
And uh, to the women, you're already killing it. Thank you. UM. Yeah, this, UM,
this email criticizing my husband made me feel great. UM. Anyway, UM,
on that note, I am going to try to wrap
this up and give myself a break as I finished
(27:57):
the next two days of solo unting my kids. I
need to decompress, go to bed, get up, and start
all over again. So thank you guys for listening, and
I'll hand this off to Peter. Now wow, okay, all right, boy,
(28:24):
all right, A lot of things are falling into place. Now.
Why I was not told about this? Somebody had a plan,
a sneaky plan to make a very good point in
a in a scenario in which I am unable to
respond moment to moment. This really speaks to, oh boy,
(28:48):
my strength and weaknesses and my desire to control everything, um,
even though like I'm the kind of person I want
everyone to be comfortable and if anyone who's even remotely uncomfortable,
I am gonna make it okay. And I do that
(29:09):
by dominating the conversation. Um. And obviously, oh there's a
downside of that. Okay. So I have so many things
to respond to. First of all, I there's not the
reason why this is so hard is because I know
(29:30):
that all of it is true. I know this about myself.
I grew up in a house with four boys, myself
included one of one of four of a very loud,
opinionated family, and everyone got along. But we have a
(29:50):
style of communication, uh, where you get people's attention by
by taking their attention. And we're all used to taking
the focus and and saying things that we have opinions,
and if people don't hear us, we repeat ourselves and
if people aren't listening, we don't take it personally. We
(30:12):
just know that you have to earn people's attention. And
I was the third of four, and so finding ways
to get people's attention became my whole deal. Because I
didn't have something interesting to say or something funny as
going to be ignored. And this is a very typical
middle child thing. Uh. And you know, so I got
(30:35):
attention by being funny, and I don't I don't know
how much. That's a story. I think a lot of
comedians like to tell as to why they're funny. Maybe
that's it's hardwired. I don't know. I don't care, but
this is how I am, and somehow, somehow, the universe,
which I don't believe is a thing with a point
(30:57):
of view or a will. Although Beth would disagree with me,
decided that Beth was the woman I should be with
and uh, And we could not have two more different
styles of communication because I will, if unchecked, I will
(31:20):
say everything I'm thinking and everything I'm feeling. And if
there's somebody around people who know me, I'll talk about
myself way too much, and I'm I'm aware of it
while it's happening, and I have to tell myself now
it's time to shut up. So I'll blah blah blab
and then I'll shut up and like shut down because
I realized I've I've hit my quota. But if I
(31:40):
had not met Beth and started dating her, I would
be so much less self aware. I am able now
to recognize, oh no, I just dominated the conversation. I
need to shut up and listen, Whereas before I would
just keep going, just keep going. I first did my
(32:00):
first my first date with Beth. I was so nervous
because she wouldn't say anything. I was like late. I
remember sitting down at this restaurant and I was like, hey, sorry,
I'm sorry late. I was just like a little weird,
weird track from the subway. I just saw the biggest dog.
You know, It's like my who wants to talk to
that big in Brooklyn and anyway, and she just sit
(32:23):
there and listen. She wouldn't shime in, so I just
keep going and just keep talking. In my mind, I'm like,
this is a disaster. I'm blowing it. She hates us.
I have no idea what she thinks, but I couldn't
breathe for two seconds to let her speak. And we
kept going out and it was it wasn't easy. It
(32:45):
took a while for me to be comfortable. And the
big thing that happened was I allowed myself to be
silent sometimes. And because Beth she needs a long runway
to get to get going. And it's not just that
I it's not just that I dominated conversations, which I do,
(33:09):
but Beth truly is the opposite. And it's it's not
just a gender thing it is it is a personality type.
And she she communicates in a way. And you, you
guys know a different Beath than I do. You know,
the chatt the chattiest version of Beth that's ever existed.
(33:31):
Because she's on a podcast and she has to talk
the whole time. I've gotten to know way more about
her from doing this podcast with her than being married
to her for eight years. And she's the type of
person that hears and considers everything that is said around her.
(33:51):
And it took me a long time to understand that
that that process takes time. She internalizes things things, and
she thinks about it, and so when she speaks, it's
it's not the first time it's occurring to her. She's
processed it, she's thought about it, not every time. She
sort of plays that card too much. If you ask me,
(34:14):
whereas I I am saying things to try them out,
I say I have opinions, I say them out loud
and I see how they fit. And I've gotten really
good at speaking in a way that sounds like I
know what I'm talking about some of the time, and uh,
that is how I have been able to learn, and
(34:36):
I do it out loud. And I've been around people
that communicating a similar similar way, like my family members.
I hang out with my mom, and I've said this before.
We can have too entirely separate conversations at the same time,
and we're both perfectly content because I only I only
pay attention when she says something that's that makes me go, oh,
(34:56):
that's interesting, and a lot of it sort of passes
through me um and she does the same. We're we're
just sort of looking for keywords, we latch on the things,
whereas Beth, here's all of it and it's overwhelming. And
so getting back to dating her learning to shut up
(35:17):
and not need there, not needing there to be a
next thing, and just to breathe. And then also realized
like maybe we're just not going to chat for a while.
And early on I felt like that was a failure,
and then it became a gift. Two start to actually
(35:39):
be able to be present and to not worry about
what's next, but rather to be aware of what's here. Now.
You know, if if you go exploring, you know, if
Beth and I go out into the metaphorical woods, my
(35:59):
brain is going to go, how much how much mileage
can we can we can we hit? You know, let's
let's see as many places as we can. Let's go,
let's go, let's go. Whereas Beth can cover less ground
and see far more. You know, she can sit in
one place and notice all the details on this one tree,
and if you just get calm and still and look close,
(36:21):
you realize there's a whole world in like a patch
of grass, and she can have observe more in that
patch of grass than I do, trying to cover as
much ground as I possibly can. And that has been
an incredible life lesson for me that when Beth and
I spend quality time together, it's quality time, and but
(36:45):
a lot of the time we spend in separate rooms.
Beth needs her space and I I didn't understand that
for so long, and I felt like if we were
not hanging out every single night that something was wrong.
But now it's like we've been together for so long.
We don't talk to each other for a couple of
(37:07):
days because someone gets home late, and then when we
do have time and we do something together, it means something,
and uh, and I really appreciate that. So just to
hit some points of things that Beth was talking about,
I tried to take notes. She referenced improv, which, if
you're not familiar with the improv world, we do long
(37:31):
form improv, which is, you know, I do a show
us just two people, me and my best friend Nick.
We get a title, someone gives us the title of
the show, and we improvise sixty minutes of a play,
essentially with a bunch of characters. And this is something
I'm very good at because I'm the type of person
that can act before I, uh speak, before I fully
(37:54):
understand what I'm doing. So I am able to create
the illusion of familiarity and history in an improv scene
because I'll start as if it's true, and as I'm
saying something, the implications of it and the context, the
context of the that line that scenario will give me
what's next, and then I'm already onto the next thing.
(38:15):
And then I know everything about my character and this scene, um,
without having to stop and think about it. And that's
the whole point of improv, is to trust your impulses
and find yourself in the middle of something as opposed
to stopping to decide where you want to go. Um
And and I'm very good at it. And it's also
(38:36):
it's a totally appropriate thing to do in improv, which
is to listen to your scene partner just enough so
that whatever they say, Like when Nick says something to
be in our show, my job is to assume that
I know what he means. I'm going to assume what
the larger implications of what he's saying, uh, the implications are,
(38:58):
so I don't don't I don't stop and think about
the whole thing. I make a big assumptions about what
he meant, and it's not always what he meant, but
it makes it in improv, it's my job not to
get his idea right, it's just to move it forward.
And so there's this back and forth where I don't
have to know what he means. I just have to
pretend like I know what he means, and we're able
(39:18):
to construct things very quickly and seamlessly. This is great
for improv. In real life this is not so great
a skill in which and I do this to Beth
all the time, where she'll as soon as I understand
the gist of what she's talking about, I act like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know what you're saying and probably all this, and
(39:39):
so I'm already responding. But the problem is is that
there is often more to it, or it's not what
she meant, and I haven't given it the three extra
seconds it needs to fully articulate itself. And Beth is right, like,
I edit this podcast and it is the second time
(40:01):
that I sit down and listen that I learned, uh,
and I realize how smart my wife is. And another thought,
despite the fact that despite the fact that I do
think I have dramatically improved over the years in my
listening abilities. Again, it's it's less that I'm suddenly way better.
(40:25):
It's more that I can recognize that I'm doing it
and hopefully be able to reverse it, or recognize that
people are reacting to me as if I've just interrupted
and blabbed on it's time to shut up for a while.
But in other parts of my life I know that
it has gotten worse. The big thing is, uh, I
(40:48):
teach improv, and so I for many or for ten years,
I've had at least one class a week where I
have sixteen people whose job is it is to listen
to me. And I teach the upper level students at
the Magnet Theater and I love it um but it's
a captive audience that if they've they're sold on improv,
(41:13):
they want to be here, they're they're at a certain level,
and they take everything I say seriously, and they're not
giving me as as much as real life. The social
cues that I need to shut up, So I know
that I ramble on and I am I don't use
(41:34):
class time as efficiently as other teachers because I get
really excited about things that we're talking about, and I
start explaining an idea and that leads me to another idea,
and I start explaining that, and then I'm making jokes
about myself and I've just wasted twenty minutes. And it's
gotten worse over the years. One because I'm better at teaching.
(41:55):
I recognize more things, but I've I don't have people
telling me to shut up, and so it just it creates,
it reinforces this idea that everyone wants to hear what
I have to say, and I have to remind myself
that this is not real life. This is an artificial
social environment where uh people want to hear me. Uh.
(42:21):
And also because I again I live with a woman
that's not super chit chatty that I don't get that
at home. And so when I go and suddenly there's
these people who want to listen to me, I'm like,
I have all this power, and this power is corrupting me.
I go stand on stage and there's you know, seventy
people in these seats who have paid money to listen
(42:43):
to me, and their job is to not talk. And
that is where I am the most comfortable, where we
just all agreed that we're gonna listen to Peter talk
for an hour. And that's that's powerful, and it's a
it's addictive, addicting, addictive. I'm addicted to it, the attention,
(43:06):
the applause. I'm yelling and I'm home alone right now.
Oh God, See, this is a nightmare. So I want
to respond to this email which I got and I
read it and but it was it was written so
diplomatically and so nice Leah that oh I was like
(43:30):
I did best, said, I texted her this email is
my worst nightmare because I know that it's true. I mean,
doing this right now, this is this is all I'm thinking,
is Peter, you need to shut up. I'm I'm supposed
to be the only one talking. Beth recorded this alone,
and the idea that I talk over her, which I
(43:51):
knew would be an issue when we started doing this, uh,
is terrible. So I will say about the idea of
giving Beth a Beth buzzer, I reject it wholeheartedly, and
I here's why. And it's not because it's not a
great idea or that it wouldn't be useful to Beth.
But for the same reason I thought about maybe we
(44:12):
shouldn't read this email because as soon as we now
bring this up, those of you who have not had
the thought that I dominate the conversation, now this is
ten times more true and you're gonna be listening for it.
And that's why I didn't. I wanted to be like,
I'm going to take the note and I'm gonna be
better about listening. But I don't want to bring it
(44:32):
up because then everyone's gonna listen and be like, he's
doing it again. FU that guy. But I'm gonna be bold.
I'm gonna be brave and allow myself to be vulnerable
to all of you and let you know that this
is something I will. I am committed. I'm committed to
(44:56):
trying to improve and if I need to risk having
you all be aware of it and listening for it.
Boy that if that isn't motivation, I don't know what
it is, because I have had the same reaction. I've
listened to the podcasts where there are people that don't
share the focus, and as soon as I become aware
of the idea, that's all I can hear, and then
(45:19):
the rest of the time I'm like, just shut up.
I hate this guy, and it is always a guy.
Not that women aren't capable of this. Um My mom
and I are very similar. She can dominate a conversation
the same way I can, but on podcast is so
usually a dude, and I'm like, come on, guy, I
(45:39):
can recognize it in other men. You know. I'm an
improv teacher. I am hyper aware of these gender stereotypes
and these behaviors, and I see it in the realms
that I work in, and especially over the last several years.
Um Beth being a huge help in pointing these things
(46:00):
is out to me. I see things I wasn't aware
of before. But it's much easier to see it in
other people than in yourself, especially if you're somebody that
processes everything out loud, like I am doing right now.
Do you hear how fast time talking? This is what
happens when I have nothing to bounce off of. I
need things to land, and so I'm I'm just I'm
(46:23):
rambling at a million miles an hour. Anyway, we're putting
this podcast out there, this episode, and now, this is
a thing that's true. I'm not going to give Beth
a buzzer, because if I explain the buzzer at the
top of every episode, I'm asking everyone to listen for
me to me, for me to interrupt her, and I
(46:43):
don't want that to be something everyone's focused on, but
I am going to do it in this episode. So
you've heard it. You can keep me honest what I'd
like to talk, you know, and Beth, if you if
you totally get out of her way, there's gonna be
gaps in the podcast, and that's s's boring. Come on,
(47:04):
I gotta keep it fun. That was a joke, very real.
Uh god, do I have more to say? If I've
talked longer than Beth, I really haven't learned anything, have I?
I love you, mu devious wife you. I can't believe
(47:24):
she didn't tell me she's gonna do this. I take
it back. It's the most best thing that's ever happened.
I love you all, I trust you all. I don't
know how to say goodbye. This has been we Knows Parenting.
If you'd like to see more from us, you can
(47:46):
find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at we knows pod,
and you can email us at we Knows Pod at
gmail dot com. We also have a Google voicemail number
if you'd like to leave us an audio message that
would be great for us to play on the podcast.
(48:07):
Um send us your questions at three four seven, three
eight four seven three nine six. Also, please rate, review,
and subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or wherever you
get your Apple podcasts by
We Knows Parenting News
Hosts And Creators
Beth Newell
Peter McNerney
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