December 3, 2019 • 48 mins
Peter and Beth discuss the lies of Thanksgiving, why babies are hell beasts, and how Home Alone holds up as a holiday kids movie.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
I got buckets. It's we knows parenting. I'm Peter McNerney
and I'm that Newell. We came back. We've been back.
Can you believe it? We didn't really leave. I mean
we did leave. We went to Thanksgiving, to the Thanksgiving.
(00:32):
We went to the famous, the world famous Thanksgiving. This
version was in outside of Boston, Massachusetts, where your parents live.
Had a delightful time. Can I say, unrelated to the trip,
that a lot of people this year are getting more
on board with actually listening to native people about cultural issues.
(00:56):
And people are starting to talk about how Thanksgiving is
credibly problematic and like as as a holiday, and I think,
you know, it's one of those things. It feels like
we just need to rebrand it a little bit and
keep doing the big family meal and just yes, the
(01:17):
messaging of it is is right, arm like it's But
the funny thing is all of our all of our
holidays are actually just appropriated pagan holidays that we that
Christianity like tried to rebrand into different various lives and things. Well,
I think that's that's not not just Christianity is thin
right right right, But um our country has done this
(01:40):
with Thanksgiving where what used to be sort of like
giving thanks holiday in the fall where you would like
reap the last harvest and then celebrate all the food
and like you know, prepare for the winter and like
enjoy a meal with your loved ones. It then became
this holiday where we're like and that's when Native Americans
(02:01):
forgave us for everything, and they actually were like, we
want you here on our land and we want you
to take all of relay. Well, yeah, that is the
that's the origin of Thanksgiving. I mean, obviously the revisionist
history of the perfect we invited the the Native Americans
to this supper, which I just read a great article,
(02:23):
but like things that are you believe about Thanksgivings that
aren't true, And the only one I remember is we didn't.
We the white people, the Pilgrims, did not invite the
Native Americans when you were across the brook having their
own festival. And they emerge when you actually look at
(02:45):
American history and a lot of these things, or just
world history, it's like we're talking about events that were
like genocide on some level, like you know, like rape
and murder of people, removing children from their parents. It's
like these are like but like if you if you
read the history in our history books, it's like, um,
(03:08):
so we just kept expanding west into this beautiful land
that was just sitting there waiting for it. Or the
victors write the history books. I mean, the pilgrims had
a had a you know, where they were living. They
had fields that were prepared and tilled because all they
were prepared by Native Americans who were all dead because
(03:30):
of the small box. Yeah, anyway, fun start. Well, I
think what is relevant about that to the podcast, not
aside from the education point, is that, Um, one thing
I think people have been more sensitive to this year,
among other things culturally, is that kids are being given
(03:51):
these sort of like reenacting things like plays or activities
or head dress is like they're giving these activities in
schools that are just like I know, in a lot
of places, I feel like this is just like some
old white teacher who's been doing this thing for years
and like they didn't get the memo, like you know
(04:13):
what I mean, Like they're still making Native American head
dresses out of Yeah. In a lot of cases, it's
like a very well meaning white person who really needs
to like read an article, Um, but it's just anyway.
Um well, I speaking of that, I went to pick
(04:33):
up britain Is after school. Um program had a Thanksgiving
party and I forgot that it was happening. So I
showed up and he was just getting food and so
I was like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna go
outside that you know, makes some phone calls so that
he can enjoy his food. And he didn't haven't seen
me yet. And as I walked out, I really I
(04:54):
thought like, was he wearing a construction paper uh Native
American head dress? Oh? Yeah? And I was like, oh,
that's not cool anymore, right, But then I went back
an hour later and saw that it was turkey turkey
hat but it had turkey feathers on a hat in
a way that was like very reminiscent of you can
(05:16):
tell whoever learned that learned it one way and then
they go, let's make it a turkey and it was
an appropriate shift. Yeah, but someone someone got very attached
to the idea of putting like headbands on kids around
fall like, yeah, it's it's moved in the right direction.
But yeah, I mean, I mean Thanksgiving the core of
(05:37):
it is the time to be thankful, and I think
I'm behind that time to get together with family, Like
we celebrate Christmas personally. I don't do it for Jesus anymore.
I just it's about family. I just do it for
the likes. I just do it for the tradition and
the rules. Um, I'm so excited for Christmas this year.
(05:57):
Brand he's he's he's ready for the big Christmas. Can
we talk about the Advent calendar? Yeah? Sure, I mean
the thing is I have another Advent thing coming? Or
is that what it's called. No, it's not called it's
just what are you talking about? What are you talking about? What?
(06:21):
I was talking about the Advent calendar? But you said
that you have another Advent thing coming, another Advent calendar
sort of. It's like, Um, this is so mysterious. What
are you talking about. It's like this wooden Advent calendar
where you like put it's like a Christmas tree with
all these little circle holes. And then yeah, I was
(06:43):
trying to find something like when I was a kid,
I had this thing that I loved that I don't
think anyone really makes something like it right now. Maybe
they do, But it was like it hung on the wall.
It was made of cloth, and there was all these
little pockets for each day of the month with a
number on it, and then that you would move this
little mouse from pocket to pocket. I've seen that too.
(07:05):
I loved that. I love all of these. These are
the kind of holiday activities that are great. Like I
think if you remember that so much of the joy
of Christmas is like the lead up to Christmas, then
I feel like you can kind of like tone down
the consumerism and stress of like gift by I love
(07:27):
the build up is everything. Yeah, that's why I love
Christmas Morning and we have a lot of traditions and
things because it's all about just extending that moment of excitement. Um.
But bring up we got written at You got brittan
advant calendar, a simple one, and you think that would
be really into it because he loves the calendar and
crossing off the days of the month. He really didn't
(07:51):
get it, and well he does love it, but he
immediately opened all of the doors and then lied about it.
It was too tempting. You know. It's funny because they
have ones like that that have candy in them. But
I used to get some of those. I know. I
could never trust him with something like that. Well, that's
the type of thing though that he couldn't possibly lie about.
(08:14):
He'd he'd be surprised. So let's talk about We took
them to Thanksgiving. It was nice and easy. Um the
drive there. The drive back was not. We had a
lot of traffic. Actually, I thought the drive back was
more peaceful in a weird way, even though it was eternal.
(08:36):
Here's something I'm really proud of. It was eternal. It
was six and a half hours instead of three. Um,
so Brent head a major league melt down in the
parking lot when you guys went into that restaurant. And
I've been really trying to just ride the wave instead
(08:59):
of trying to block the wave, you know, because I've
you know, I pride myself on putting my foot down,
and when I put my foot down, I don't back off.
But I've been hitting the gas, hitting the brake too hard,
too quick, m and so I've just been trying to
find that balance of if I say a thing, I
(09:22):
mean it, but I'm toning down this sternness. And in
that parking lot when he was having a major league
freak out, Um, oh my god. So this was in
reaction to target okay, we gotta go back. On the
way there, we had to go to Target to buy
(09:43):
him a jacket because he lost his jacket. So it's
been a great trip. We go into the Target and
we get there and we get to find the jacket
section and there's one coat that's for four to five
years old, and so I go, oh, look at this,
and I put it on him and it fits perfectly,
(10:04):
and then I go great. And then I look in
the next size up, which is six seven, and I go,
let's try this on just in case, because it was
a nice jacket and it might last. So he puts
one arm in the new jacket and his fingers don't
go to the end, so in my mind like, oh,
this is probably too big. And then he takes it
off and he goes, this is the one. I want
this one, And I go, well, try it on so
(10:27):
that I can see how big it is, because I'm
not gonna buy this. It might be too big. And
he then he refused, uh, and I was like, oh, okay,
well just try it on. And then suddenly he got
really progressive quickly, and he was really embarrassed, and I
didn't notice it, so suddenly I was pushing against somebody
that was freaking out, and I didn't notice yet, and
(10:48):
so then I was like, okay, all right, let's get
the other one. And then I tried. I tried to
get the other one, and he started freaking out that
we weren't buying the big one. So then I said, okay,
we can get the big one if you try it on.
Then he wouldn't try it on and the biggest public
melton I've ever been a part of. And so I
(11:10):
tried to just back away, and I go, okay, I
riled him up. I didn't realize that, and I stayed calm,
and I just sat there and I waited and I
let him be alone. I let him calm down, I
changed the subject. We just talked and all that, and
then finally we had to go. So I was like,
all right, and then I called and I was like,
I started like threatening him. We got donuts. If you
don't do this, you're gonna get a donut. And I
(11:32):
called you and I was like, are you gonna eat
Britain's doughnut? And this is when I blew it, And
then finally wasn't already. I finally finally just said we
have to go, and so I grabbed the one that
I knew that fit. I said, let's go, and I
started walking away, and he exploded with rage and started
running in front of me, and he threw himself down
(11:52):
in front of me on the ground, and I just
like stepped over him, and everyone was looking. And then
we got into the cell off checkoutline and he started
hitting me, and it was so crowded and I was
so embarrassed, and I was trying to make jokes, so
the people around me and I as I was checking out,
he was grabbing the coat and pulling it away and
screaming goes, I don't want it, I don't want it,
(12:16):
and I just put my head down and walked out
of the store. And as soon as he got into
the parking lot, I lost it. And we put him
in the car, and he wouldn't put a seatbelt on,
so I slammed the door and then I get in
the car and I drive to go pick you guys
up at Dunk of Donuts and he starts kicking the
back of my seat as hard as he can, and
he dumps out an entire box of animal crackers and
(12:41):
I'm going five miles in the parking lot and I
hit the brakes really hard and he sort of stumbles
and I scream, Oh my God, and I was so
enraged and I lost my mind. Okay, can I talk.
This is the longest story in the world. UM. I
feel like we have this conversation every single time we
(13:02):
have a car trip where I beg you not to
lay down the discipline at the beginning of a three
hour car The thing is, I didn't no becauld use you.
From the very beginning. You were like, I need you
to put this code on, Like, here's how this would
(13:24):
have played out for me. How it started. He said,
I need you to try it on anyway, and then
you continue to lay down ultimatum after ultimatum, a drawing
lines in the sand for him to get upset about.
Can I say how I would have done this interaction?
I'm upset at how much you keep trying to describe
(13:44):
a thing that you weren't there for it. But go ahead,
you just described it in great detail for five minutes straight.
I think I have a pretty good gist of what
went down. Well, the point of that setup was to
talk about how I've reacted him since then, which I
appreciate that it has been at the start of every
single trip we take. Um, here's how this would have
(14:08):
played up for me. I'm a mom, I'm planning a trip,
I'm packing, I'm trying to get things to car, snacks,
all these things, trying to keep everyone in my family
happy and calm. Because I have three miserable hours stuck
with them in a car. I realize we need a coat.
I go into target. My son starts being difficult. I say,
(14:31):
I distract. I say, hey, do you think if we're good,
we could maybe get a pack of gum on the
way out of here? You are so condescending. And then
I leave to target. Oh, oh yeah, you just bail
on the jacket. You know what should I would buy
the jacket, but I would just distract him from his stubbornness. Ah, well,
(14:56):
you might have done it. You might have nailed it.
We'll never know. As a result, he had a freak
out on the way back. And boy, I handled it great.
You know what tonight? I am was incredibly overwhelmed today
with a bunch of things, and I shut down at
a certain point, and you very dramatically shut down. Yes,
(15:19):
it was really bad, and I literally just had to
go lay down. Can I say what happened? I came home,
I came early from work because it's like stormy outside,
and I walk in the front door. The kids are
directly in front of the door, blankets spread out. There's
like toys ulster and all over the place, and like
a lot of like weird messes, like where they got
(15:40):
into things that are not for kids. And they're like
just I'm like what were they doing? Why is this
thing here? And like where is my husband? And then
I go and you're laying down in the dark in
the bedroom, clearly overwhelmed by something. Uh, And so I
closed you in there and and you cleaned up the night.
(16:04):
You don't know how much I appreciate it, because it
was me trying to start unloading the dishwasher after making
dinner that caused me to snap, and I said, I'm
way down. But I'll tell you what. I was so
defeated by the day that I had no energy to
be confrontational with my kids, and I just let them
(16:27):
sort of pass through me. See that's me a lot
of the time. I'm just like I'm so tired, and
like I need this Sunday to involve rest and just
eat lunch meat, whatever you want. The thing that was
great is that I had no I had no frustrations
with them, I had no anger towards them. I had
(16:49):
just was going through a personal crisis and anything they
were doing, I just remained completely calm. And there was
almost zero fighting all night in bedtime. You know, you
saw them freaking out of bedtime. I had to lay
down the law and do ultimatums, but I did it
with zero attitude and zero aggression and it was easy.
(17:12):
And I didn't and I was like, I need to
remember what this feels like, minus the defeated, exhausted apart
and just be be liquid not a wall. Does that
make sense? Yeah, I'm drinking vodka cranchon. What am I? Nineteen?
(17:41):
That was? That was a very specific college thing I
got drunk on once that it's real gross to me. Now,
what's yours? You made? You made a drink that you
now think it's gross. Um, it's something I drank excessively
one night before I knew what that meant. And so
(18:02):
now that vodka is ruined for me. The thing that
I think is a gross that I would drink when
I was like underage, like or people around me. I
would drink is like, um, oh my god, what's it
called in the Big Lebowski with the kohlua and milk?
Right Russian? White Russian? Um, we would drink those for
(18:25):
some reason. It's like you and I went through a
white white Russian kick in two thousand. It's like it
just makes you feel gross after a while, Like you're like,
why am I drinking all this like sugar and milk?
Like you know, it's not you're it's like a milkshake,
Like why it's so delicious? I mean I do stuff
like that. I think it's fine if you're at like
(18:47):
a holiday party or something and you have like one drink,
but like you just it's not like something you should
This is my tenth white Russian, so gross, but one
is yummy? Yeah? Should we get back into white Russian?
What if that's where this goes? Next week? You guys,
(19:09):
when you hear this clinkety clanketty, it's gonna be a
white Russian And now it's time for do you know
what they're saying? This is where we talked about shit.
(19:34):
I was gonna say, ships our kids say, so we're
talking about our kids saying we used to have on
that was like, we knows why they're saying the darndest thing.
Do you remember um because intro it's a different title. Yeah,
we can't remember anything. Um. So tonight I was pulling
(19:57):
out Brent's school photos because I was going to cut
some up for to give out to people, and um,
the class photo was out and Brian saw it and
he was like, I mean, first of all, he got
mad at me because he was like, he was like,
I was talking about how we're going to give some
of the photos to his grandparents, and he was like,
(20:17):
we can't give them this one because it's like all
of his friends. And he's like and I'm like, no,
it's okay, We're not going to give him that one.
And then he was like holding the photo over by
himself and looking at the kids, and he was looking
at this girl, Reagan, and he was like whispering to
himself and he goes, don't forget about me, Reagan. I
(20:44):
don't know, I don't know if he saw that on
like an X Men cartoon or something like don't forget
about it. Just feels like he saw someone like wistfully
staring at like a photo, Like, where did he come
up with that? Because he left the room. He was like,
I was like, what are you saying? And he's like,
what nothing? And then he left the room and as
he was walking away, he did it again. He was like,
(21:05):
don't forget about me, right, listen, I don't want to
project anything onto Mike into my children. Um, but he
had inklings if he talks about how cool she is, Yeah,
I mean he he likes a lot of kids in
his class. Yeah. So it's it's hard to tell because
(21:26):
he was talking about having girlfriends. But then it became
clear that he just thought girls, you're friends. What are
called girlfriends? Um? So he doesn't idiot. He does love
like romantic love stuff though. Oh so we watched Home Alone. Yeah,
I'm doing Thanksgiving break And it's the first time I
(21:48):
think he would transition this into we knows what they're watching?
We already did, okay, And I think it's the first
time you sat through an entire live action movie. Maybe
that might not be true. It feels like the first
time our kids have watched like a classic live action
kids movie. Like, I'm sure they've seen other things, but
(22:09):
it's a pretty rare that they sit still and like
like watching the whole movie. They watched the whole thing.
They loved it. I love he keeps going. Remember when
Kevin put the soap on his face and said, trying
to keep explaining what after shave is that it's pointless.
But they love it. They love the violence. This sort
(22:32):
of actually the Maven sometimes she the um robbers will
come on, she goes, I don't like the bad guys.
She got scared. She got a little scared during parts
of it, and she left the room during Home aloan too,
but Come Alone one, which is an excellent movie. There's
some rough language in there for five year old. They
(22:53):
were very violent. They used the word ass more than once.
In Homeland who they They literally show a clip from
a black and white film where a woman is shot
to death on screen, like it's they do that in one,
but it's like I know both times it's very violent.
Keep the change of fealthy animal. I love one. There's
(23:15):
all the so I wish they could replace those scenes
like they should do an edit. It's just like no, no,
don't touch the thing. So that house so violent. There's
also one scene where I was tempted to cover Maven's eyes,
which is like, because I hate watching people get hurt.
You arrived when he steps on the nail, when he
(23:36):
says something nails so gross. Me didn't disturb me until
I was older. Yeah, probably, but me, I think maybe,
and I are sensitive to watching people get hurt. Well,
she seemed like overall she loved it. People falling down here.
I think when the falls are really comical and it's
like slipping like that's funny, Like that's funny for most people.
(23:58):
It's when it looks like like when you're seeing an
iron get dropped on someone's face and like they're burned skin.
That's when I'm like that favorite part. She described it
in a weird way if she didn't know what it was,
but she thought it was really well there. Yeah, there's
parts of it where they don't understand what's happening, But
as you get older, it's disturbing. What is it? What
(24:21):
does buzz say? I wouldn't I wouldn't let you sleep
in my room if you were growing on my ass.
The tension between Kevin and his family is so well done.
When she takes when Katherine Harritt takes upstairs, he goes
up to the attic, you really feel her like making
(24:45):
some not necessarily empathetic choices, but you feel her exhaustion
as a mom who's trying to pack like a bajillion
kids for a trip. Well, when he says, I hope
I'd never see any of you ever her again, and
she goes, I hope you don't mean that. I do,
Like I teared up. Yeah, when you become a parent,
(25:10):
suddenly you have to rewatch every movie you've ever watched,
and now there's a whole new layer where you're like, oh,
now I get it. I got teary during that fight
scene in him saying that he wished they had all disappeared.
You'd be pretty sad if you woke up to morrow
morning and you had no family. No, I wouldn't. Oh,
(25:32):
this is another funny and at the end, but at
the end when she comes home, it's very emotional. And
Brand cried when he hugged his mom and she was back,
and I wanted to hug him and cry toive. I
do think it's like a really primal thing to make
kids movies about like not having a mom around, Like
(25:54):
it's so like kids are like that's the worst. Um,
I just started reading reading James the Giant Peach tonight,
and the first two chapters are harsh, like Aunt's aunts
Spiker and on Sponge are terrible and they just make
him cry. And the end of the second chapter he
runs off and just sobs into his hands. So Bryn
(26:17):
had another do you know we know's what they're saying
moment after the movie where I was like, so, Bryan,
what was your favorite part? And he was like, remember
when they left him alone. It's like he's just so
casual about it. He's like, do you remember the part
where they left him alone? His favorite part was the
full premise of the movie thing when he was home alone.
(26:42):
He has a good point that like that's sort of
the crux, Like that's really what's driving the movie. So
I grew up in the same town as to where
that movie was filmed. I know, well, it's it feels
like a very weird set up for going there for Christmas,
because I was like, there's multiple airport scenes in O'Hare
(27:06):
and I was like, we're gonna be there, Yeah, We're
gonna be at this airport and they go their house,
We're gonna be four blocks from that house. I just
gave you a hint tist to where you can find us. Um,
the poor people that own that house now they had
to put up a big fence because now that the
Internet has happened, there's fucking weirdo idiots like sneaking into
(27:30):
their backyard. They have all these signs up. That's like
no trespassing because clearly people go around the back of
their house and take pictures and ship It's like, don't
don't do that. Don't do that. People don't go into
other people's yards. Never although has there ever been a
movie where a house was a more central character, Like
(27:54):
I know every room in that house, the story telling
Satanic room. I don't remember what handeck room, have it?
On the hill? I don't remember the physical space cabin
on the hill, pork drop Bay, what's the one inferno?
Towering inferno? I mean you're naming movies where buildings are locations,
(28:22):
But what movies have buildings in which you could describe
the relationship of all the rooms or you can visually
picture how everything connects. I don't think you can visually
picture how everything connects in the home alone. I could
draw you a picture. No, you couldn't I'm if it
(28:45):
wasn't so late, I would I would demand that we pause,
and I would draw a picture, and then we'd google
it and compare. Well, because you lived in a town
where this house was, you've seen it from all angles. Well,
I've not been inside it. There are plenty of movies
where people are iconically familiar with this set at location.
(29:06):
I'm not saying there aren't other movies. Downtain Abbey. I
couldn't tell you how that thing's put together because he
didn't watch the show closely, not as closely as you've
watched Home Alone. It's true. I've seen Home Alone times
best Christmas movie. Just think about movies before you make
(29:26):
grants sweeping statement. I'm thinking about all the other ones,
all the other one. You're thinking all the other ones,
the Millennium Falcon, I don't even know that as well. Nope, Hogwarts,
(29:47):
I don't know how it's connected. Well, that's partly because
they changed those locations between movies. Gimmy started. But could
you could you say where the shire is in location
in relation to um bag End? A bag End is
(30:08):
in the shire? Yeah, come on, I meant the town
of Bree. It's the next stop the riven Dad, I
don't even got those forest elves. And then we got
to go down that river, that waterfall and Florian Gondorum.
This is movie crush. Chuck Bryant, Um, Chuck Bryant. We
(30:35):
need to plug at least once every podcast. It's true.
Oh yeah, so Check texted me because um, we mentioned him,
but he also wanted to say that I said something
that I didn't realize I said, which is I meant
to And even as he was texting me, as I
didn't understand what he was talking about why it was
(30:55):
so funny, But I meant to say, um, all presses,
any press is good press. All press is good press.
But I said all news is good news and that
doesn't make sense. Yeah, well, we get tired when we're
recording this podcast, but you know, all news is good
(31:17):
news in my book. Oh boy, this is empty. How's
that white Russian? It's hey man, the dude abides And
(31:46):
now it's time for Did you notice this is where
we share some stuff that we read or learned recently. Beth,
you got one, take it away? Okay, So there's an
article from the New York Times by Jessica Gross. It's
called Early motherhood has always been miserable. Um. And then
they quote this thing says, I declare, if I thought
(32:08):
I was to be thus occupied for the rest of
my life, one new mom wrote in eight I would
lie down and die. Um. And so the article sort
of like goes on to explain that like traditionally middle
ages and earlier people people considered babies to be basically
hell beasts, and they acknowledged how exhausting they are. Um.
(32:34):
And then around the Victorian age and and afterwards they
started creating sort of this idealized version of motherhood to
sort of like keep these as. As society industrialized in
middle class white women were no longer being put to
work all the time, they had to shift their focus
(32:56):
to exclusively child rearing and um, so they created this
sort of like fiction of how mothers are so constantly
loving being around their children, their precious, beautiful children, and
it's so easy and it's it just comes so naturally
to us, and we love it. I like this article
(33:18):
set it up. Set it up that in juxtaposition of
non juxtaposition, in mirroring today's sort of the idealized Instagram
version of motherhood. Look at my perfect family, I lay
my baby out and see the here's the three month picture,
(33:39):
and they've got an elaborate you know, all that stuff.
If you do that, that's fine, that's great. But and
then also the you know, the comedians and writers of
the Parenting as Hell, down in the down in the
muck um and this article is a really interesting job
of painting a picture of around this time. You're describing
(33:59):
as that's always been true, just in a different media format. Yeah. Well,
and it's interesting because I think when it's one of
those weird paradoxes where when women were sort of doing
more like exclusively child rearing and like maintain the household
(34:21):
and stuff, they almost feels like in some ways they
got more respect for it. And then as we've started
like making up like these various um standards for women
to live up to, where we sort of just like
devalue them all and like, uh, don't give credit for
(34:42):
the effort that goes into them. That's interesting. I don't know,
it's just very how do you feel let's talk about
how do you feel about ah, how how do you
how do you present yourself as a mother to the world. Well,
(35:06):
I mean, obviously today I'm doing this podcast, and I
wrote a book about pregnancy called There's No Manual. You
can pre order now out February fourth, um. But I
when I first became pregnant, I feel like in the
I think this is a general thing, but especially like
in New York thing, I kind of felt like everyone
(35:26):
was like, Wow, what a lame choice you've made. Why
would you want to have children? I guess you're someone
who just loves children and is boring and bad. Like
that's sort of the vibe I got from people that
I feel like men don't get that reaction. Like I
had moments where I would like be getting drink, like
drinks like in sort of like a networking type of
comedy setting, and like some guy would be like talking
(35:50):
to me, like very interested, and then like I would
say something about being pregnant when I guess I was
not like visibly pregnant, and like their reactions on people
faces and like how they're regard for me just fell
so swiftly and like it was just but it's like
such a weird thing because it's like I thought you
(36:12):
were a sex object and now you're a mom. Like
it's just like this weird, Like or do you also
feel like maybe you've got some of the like, oh
maybe now you're fragile, and I don't know, it's a
lot of things, but it's just like I don't think people.
We live in the society that devalues women. Therefore, women
doing some of the most valuable and intrinsically female behavior
(36:36):
of procreating, are are essentially devalued the most because if
we've valued what is being done by women in terms
of bearing and raising children, we would have to acknowledge
that all of society needs to be restructured around this
like incredibly hard, crazy thing that people are doing. Like
(36:58):
it's just like it's um, I don't know, it's very
it's like just so weird. Do you live in a
world where when you look around at your mom friends
and you're like, wow, these people are raising kids or
holding down jobs there helping their husband with his various
health issues. They're like they're just like the like, it's
(37:20):
some of the most capable people I know, and it's
not just at home, but like in their jobs and
there whatever. And then to know that they're being treated
like they're lesser than when in situations when they're actually
more capable is very frustrating because it's like we devalue
any kind of emotional labor, anything that requires intuition, anything
(37:43):
that requires like sensitivity, where like, oh, that's just dumb,
bad work, like you know, Like, yeah, I also feel
I think you're right you you mentioned this, but you know,
in our social article at the time, do we really
have any close friends with babies and so on? On
(38:05):
top of that are very specific scenarios people like I
don't I don't know, it's not a real thing until
we did it, and they especially didn't know how to.
I also think when you live in a world that
operates all around all of these different structures and schools
and daycares and whatever, like, it's I think it's very
(38:29):
hard for a lot of people to not like when
you experience a life change like this, like you get
married or something like suddenly you're part of like the
marriage industrial complex. If you're not thoughtful or like, or
if you're you like, don't even notice necessarily that you're
aware of all these pressures on you to behave a
certain way as you're experiencing this thing that like are
(38:53):
not necessary, like and you know what, I'm just gonna
as usual just sort of swing this into an endorsement
for Elizabeth Warren. But what I love about her candidacy
so much is that she really understands the struggles real
people are facing, real women, real moms, women trying to
(39:14):
have jobs so they can both support their children and
be there for their children. Like I just I like
when she she had this really beautiful moment on the
campaign trail this week where this young girl who was
nearly in tears was asking her what she's done when
someone she loved didn't like respect her thought decision or
(39:35):
thoughts about something. I don't remember the question exactly, but
it was like, have you ever been in a position
where somebody really cared about, like, did not support you?
And Elizabeth Warren starts like also kind of like tearing
up and talking about her mom. Her mom had raised
her to believe that she needed to marry well and
that that was the goal. And I'm sure that was
(39:56):
not an uncommon thing for a mother of Elizabeth Warren's
mother generation to try to steer their daughter towards because logistically,
she wants her daughter to have a good life, and
she comes from a generation where women didn't work. And
Elizabeth Warren when she was divorcing her first husband in
the marriage wasn't working out. Her mom was really disappointed
in her to not make it work, and she's like,
(40:17):
I just couldn't make it work, and like that's what
I love about her candidacy is she understands like real life,
Like she will weave stories like this and stories about
her dad having a heart attack and her mom having
to go to work for the first time like shell.
She understands the things that real people are going through
and the ways that the structures that we have set
(40:40):
up in our society are not allowing people to live healthy,
happy lives. There was some some stories this weekend of
those those same generational expectations that seems so crazy to
(41:01):
hear now that you mean, like from my mom whose
father wanted her to get married and not he was like,
he'll just get a man to take care of you.
You don't need to go to nursing school. And it's
and it's that was not that long ago, where well
it's funny because it's not just like offensive and like
you know, limiting, but it's also just bad life advice.
(41:25):
Like my my mom is always like in retrospect, if
I hadn't had a job, I don't know how we
would have survived, Like she needed a job. Like it's
just it's but like he didn't have any other reference.
I'm sure I can't relate to um growing up in
(41:47):
a place in time where like, yeah, that there, you
didn't see other options, and so it's like, oh, yeah,
that's that's how people do it, right, But it's detached
from reality, and it's detached from women's reality, and it's
detached from like the like observing the women around you
and what they're experiencing. Because like my grandfather said that
to my mom. His his dad died of tuberculosis when
(42:09):
he was like a baby, Like he didn't like his
mom obviously was supporting him. He grew up poor, he
had jobs, like after school jobs from a very young
age to like support the family, Like he it shouldn't
be a mystery to him that like work is not
a thing to like deny yourself, Like I'm sure his
(42:30):
mom was working. Um, it's just we uphold these ideas
of like, especially with white women, this like form of
white womanhood that is like the purest best way of
being and it's like it's narrow and limiting but also
(42:50):
too many boxes to check at the same time, like
it's it's an impossible standard. Well, I think we can
all agree that we're glad your mom went to nursing school.
We're very glad um And uh, would I have would
I know you if she hadn't? Um? I don't know.
(43:13):
Maybe who does I mean? So thank you best mom
for not listening to that advice. And thanks for the
heart surgery that my mom had at a very young
age that had inspired her to be a nurse. Yeah,
thank you. Your mom's the best mom. We had one
of the, as I understand, one of the very early
(43:35):
first open heart surgeries before it was a common thing.
It was like, yeah, it was very one of they
were it was very new for them to be doing
open heart surgeries, specifically on children I believe, but probably everyone,
and they it was one of those things where they're like,
we don't know if it's gonna work. So then when
it did work, they would like parade her around like hey,
look at that. They would literally throw parades like they'd
(43:59):
have like a miss Art fun thing and like have
these like little girls who had hearts are like March
March girls stands around and proved to people that healthcare
is a worthy thing. Um. Yeah, well, I'm glad that
worked out. I'm glad she's alive and that I was
able to be an alive person. I'm glad that you
(44:21):
were able to be an alive person, because this podcast
would be real awkward if you weren't one. Welcome back
to Peter and uh make Believe Corpse, an awkward show
that nobody likes and makes everyone uncomfortable because I'm gonna
stop it explaining this. Um anyway, babies are actually terrible.
(44:44):
Get their records straight for the rest to live with
the baby they are. My favorite quote in this article
is in the Middle Ages, they referred to them as,
as you said, hell beasts. I'm like, yeah, you know,
sometimes our kids are a little hell beasts, you know, argurt. Well,
I think also back then they were like, well, that
woman probably have like ten babies. We don't need to
(45:05):
value this one specifically. We'll start valuing it when it
lives past two. I mean, half of these aren't going
to make it. Yeah, they were like, let's not invest
too much in the agricultural revolution. When everyone sat down
and started farming, they produced so much food that you
could have a bunch of babies, but way more of
(45:26):
them die because we're all unhealthy. Can I tell you
one of the funniest things one of my midwife said
to me after I think while I was pregnant or afterwards,
after the baby. I can't remember. One of the midwives
who is this really no nonsense woman who I kind
of love, but she's like, can be very curt um.
She was talking to me about breast feeding and talking
(45:48):
about like trying to get like a not painful latch,
because you know, no one wants a painful latch. You
got to force these kids to learn how to do
it or it's not killing you. But she was saying
she would should be like if you were like living
in like cave times or something, and this baby is
like gnawing you're nipple off, you just leave him under
a bush. Like she was just like, you wouldn't put
(46:12):
up with that. Like she's like, and it's really funny
to hear that because you're just like, oh, yeah, like
if this is if I was just going on primal
instincts and I was like, this thing came out of me.
It's sucking the life out of me. And it's incredibly
painful and I'm tired and sore and i just want
to like not like you can see how in certain
(46:32):
situations of like desperation, like it makes sense why like
women literally experienced psychosis and maybe under bush. But that's
why that cry, that cry gets you back. You're you're
run out of the cave and you're like, I'm through
with that. Then you hear but you're like, oh, no,
(46:53):
other emotions, but you have to bond with the baby first,
and that doesn't always happen. There's a lot of conflicting
rewards system was in your brain. And that's why if
you're a postpartum woman in the modern world, if you're
experiencing difficulties, you should seek help from a mental health
professional because it's very common to feel horrible for help. Okay,
(47:20):
have you talked enough about the hell beasts? Yeah, dude,
this has been another episode of We Know his parenting.
We love you, um. But also, if you want to
reach out, ask a question, send us some advice, share
some cool send us an email We Knows pod at
gmail dot com, or call our voicemail number at three
(47:43):
four seven three eight four seven three. Right, it's a review.
Leave us a rating wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe,
subscribe and my baby's we'll see you next time. A
fish
I got buckets. It's we knows parenting. I'm Peter McNerney
and I'm that Newell. We came back. We've been back.
Can you believe it? We didn't really leave. I mean
we did leave. We went to Thanksgiving, to the Thanksgiving.
(00:32):
We went to the famous, the world famous Thanksgiving. This
version was in outside of Boston, Massachusetts, where your parents live.
Had a delightful time. Can I say, unrelated to the trip,
that a lot of people this year are getting more
on board with actually listening to native people about cultural issues.
(00:56):
And people are starting to talk about how Thanksgiving is
credibly problematic and like as as a holiday, and I think,
you know, it's one of those things. It feels like
we just need to rebrand it a little bit and
keep doing the big family meal and just yes, the
(01:17):
messaging of it is is right, arm like it's But
the funny thing is all of our all of our
holidays are actually just appropriated pagan holidays that we that
Christianity like tried to rebrand into different various lives and things. Well,
I think that's that's not not just Christianity is thin
right right right, But um our country has done this
(01:40):
with Thanksgiving where what used to be sort of like
giving thanks holiday in the fall where you would like
reap the last harvest and then celebrate all the food
and like you know, prepare for the winter and like
enjoy a meal with your loved ones. It then became
this holiday where we're like and that's when Native Americans
(02:01):
forgave us for everything, and they actually were like, we
want you here on our land and we want you
to take all of relay. Well, yeah, that is the
that's the origin of Thanksgiving. I mean, obviously the revisionist
history of the perfect we invited the the Native Americans
to this supper, which I just read a great article,
(02:23):
but like things that are you believe about Thanksgivings that
aren't true, And the only one I remember is we didn't.
We the white people, the Pilgrims, did not invite the
Native Americans when you were across the brook having their
own festival. And they emerge when you actually look at
(02:45):
American history and a lot of these things, or just
world history, it's like we're talking about events that were
like genocide on some level, like you know, like rape
and murder of people, removing children from their parents. It's
like these are like but like if you if you
read the history in our history books, it's like, um,
(03:08):
so we just kept expanding west into this beautiful land
that was just sitting there waiting for it. Or the
victors write the history books. I mean, the pilgrims had
a had a you know, where they were living. They
had fields that were prepared and tilled because all they
were prepared by Native Americans who were all dead because
(03:30):
of the small box. Yeah, anyway, fun start. Well, I
think what is relevant about that to the podcast, not
aside from the education point, is that, Um, one thing
I think people have been more sensitive to this year,
among other things culturally, is that kids are being given
(03:51):
these sort of like reenacting things like plays or activities
or head dress is like they're giving these activities in
schools that are just like I know, in a lot
of places, I feel like this is just like some
old white teacher who's been doing this thing for years
and like they didn't get the memo, like you know
(04:13):
what I mean, Like they're still making Native American head
dresses out of Yeah. In a lot of cases, it's
like a very well meaning white person who really needs
to like read an article, Um, but it's just anyway.
Um well, I speaking of that, I went to pick
(04:33):
up britain Is after school. Um program had a Thanksgiving
party and I forgot that it was happening. So I
showed up and he was just getting food and so
I was like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna go
outside that you know, makes some phone calls so that
he can enjoy his food. And he didn't haven't seen
me yet. And as I walked out, I really I
(04:54):
thought like, was he wearing a construction paper uh Native
American head dress? Oh? Yeah? And I was like, oh,
that's not cool anymore, right, But then I went back
an hour later and saw that it was turkey turkey
hat but it had turkey feathers on a hat in
a way that was like very reminiscent of you can
(05:16):
tell whoever learned that learned it one way and then
they go, let's make it a turkey and it was
an appropriate shift. Yeah, but someone someone got very attached
to the idea of putting like headbands on kids around
fall like, yeah, it's it's moved in the right direction.
But yeah, I mean, I mean Thanksgiving the core of
(05:37):
it is the time to be thankful, and I think
I'm behind that time to get together with family, Like
we celebrate Christmas personally. I don't do it for Jesus anymore.
I just it's about family. I just do it for
the likes. I just do it for the tradition and
the rules. Um, I'm so excited for Christmas this year.
(05:57):
Brand he's he's he's ready for the big Christmas. Can
we talk about the Advent calendar? Yeah? Sure, I mean
the thing is I have another Advent thing coming? Or
is that what it's called. No, it's not called it's
just what are you talking about? What are you talking about? What?
(06:21):
I was talking about the Advent calendar? But you said
that you have another Advent thing coming, another Advent calendar
sort of. It's like, Um, this is so mysterious. What
are you talking about. It's like this wooden Advent calendar
where you like put it's like a Christmas tree with
all these little circle holes. And then yeah, I was
(06:43):
trying to find something like when I was a kid,
I had this thing that I loved that I don't
think anyone really makes something like it right now. Maybe
they do, But it was like it hung on the wall.
It was made of cloth, and there was all these
little pockets for each day of the month with a
number on it, and then that you would move this
little mouse from pocket to pocket. I've seen that too.
(07:05):
I loved that. I love all of these. These are
the kind of holiday activities that are great. Like I
think if you remember that so much of the joy
of Christmas is like the lead up to Christmas, then
I feel like you can kind of like tone down
the consumerism and stress of like gift by I love
(07:27):
the build up is everything. Yeah, that's why I love
Christmas Morning and we have a lot of traditions and
things because it's all about just extending that moment of excitement. Um.
But bring up we got written at You got brittan
advant calendar, a simple one, and you think that would
be really into it because he loves the calendar and
crossing off the days of the month. He really didn't
(07:51):
get it, and well he does love it, but he
immediately opened all of the doors and then lied about it.
It was too tempting. You know. It's funny because they
have ones like that that have candy in them. But
I used to get some of those. I know. I
could never trust him with something like that. Well, that's
the type of thing though that he couldn't possibly lie about.
(08:14):
He'd he'd be surprised. So let's talk about We took
them to Thanksgiving. It was nice and easy. Um the
drive there. The drive back was not. We had a
lot of traffic. Actually, I thought the drive back was
more peaceful in a weird way, even though it was eternal.
(08:36):
Here's something I'm really proud of. It was eternal. It
was six and a half hours instead of three. Um,
so Brent head a major league melt down in the
parking lot when you guys went into that restaurant. And
I've been really trying to just ride the wave instead
(08:59):
of trying to block the wave, you know, because I've
you know, I pride myself on putting my foot down,
and when I put my foot down, I don't back off.
But I've been hitting the gas, hitting the brake too hard,
too quick, m and so I've just been trying to
find that balance of if I say a thing, I
(09:22):
mean it, but I'm toning down this sternness. And in
that parking lot when he was having a major league
freak out, Um, oh my god. So this was in
reaction to target okay, we gotta go back. On the
way there, we had to go to Target to buy
(09:43):
him a jacket because he lost his jacket. So it's
been a great trip. We go into the Target and
we get there and we get to find the jacket
section and there's one coat that's for four to five
years old, and so I go, oh, look at this,
and I put it on him and it fits perfectly,
(10:04):
and then I go great. And then I look in
the next size up, which is six seven, and I go,
let's try this on just in case, because it was
a nice jacket and it might last. So he puts
one arm in the new jacket and his fingers don't
go to the end, so in my mind like, oh,
this is probably too big. And then he takes it
off and he goes, this is the one. I want
this one, And I go, well, try it on so
(10:27):
that I can see how big it is, because I'm
not gonna buy this. It might be too big. And
he then he refused, uh, and I was like, oh, okay,
well just try it on. And then suddenly he got
really progressive quickly, and he was really embarrassed, and I
didn't notice it, so suddenly I was pushing against somebody
that was freaking out, and I didn't notice yet, and
(10:48):
so then I was like, okay, all right, let's get
the other one. And then I tried. I tried to
get the other one, and he started freaking out that
we weren't buying the big one. So then I said, okay,
we can get the big one if you try it on.
Then he wouldn't try it on and the biggest public
melton I've ever been a part of. And so I
(11:10):
tried to just back away, and I go, okay, I
riled him up. I didn't realize that, and I stayed calm,
and I just sat there and I waited and I
let him be alone. I let him calm down, I
changed the subject. We just talked and all that, and
then finally we had to go. So I was like,
all right, and then I called and I was like,
I started like threatening him. We got donuts. If you
don't do this, you're gonna get a donut. And I
(11:32):
called you and I was like, are you gonna eat
Britain's doughnut? And this is when I blew it, And
then finally wasn't already. I finally finally just said we
have to go, and so I grabbed the one that
I knew that fit. I said, let's go, and I
started walking away, and he exploded with rage and started
running in front of me, and he threw himself down
(11:52):
in front of me on the ground, and I just
like stepped over him, and everyone was looking. And then
we got into the cell off checkoutline and he started
hitting me, and it was so crowded and I was
so embarrassed, and I was trying to make jokes, so
the people around me and I as I was checking out,
he was grabbing the coat and pulling it away and
screaming goes, I don't want it, I don't want it,
(12:16):
and I just put my head down and walked out
of the store. And as soon as he got into
the parking lot, I lost it. And we put him
in the car, and he wouldn't put a seatbelt on,
so I slammed the door and then I get in
the car and I drive to go pick you guys
up at Dunk of Donuts and he starts kicking the
back of my seat as hard as he can, and
he dumps out an entire box of animal crackers and
(12:41):
I'm going five miles in the parking lot and I
hit the brakes really hard and he sort of stumbles
and I scream, Oh my God, and I was so
enraged and I lost my mind. Okay, can I talk.
This is the longest story in the world. UM. I
feel like we have this conversation every single time we
(13:02):
have a car trip where I beg you not to
lay down the discipline at the beginning of a three
hour car The thing is, I didn't no becauld use you.
From the very beginning. You were like, I need you
to put this code on, Like, here's how this would
(13:24):
have played out for me. How it started. He said,
I need you to try it on anyway, and then
you continue to lay down ultimatum after ultimatum, a drawing
lines in the sand for him to get upset about.
Can I say how I would have done this interaction?
I'm upset at how much you keep trying to describe
(13:44):
a thing that you weren't there for it. But go ahead,
you just described it in great detail for five minutes straight.
I think I have a pretty good gist of what
went down. Well, the point of that setup was to
talk about how I've reacted him since then, which I
appreciate that it has been at the start of every
single trip we take. Um, here's how this would have
(14:08):
played up for me. I'm a mom, I'm planning a trip,
I'm packing, I'm trying to get things to car, snacks,
all these things, trying to keep everyone in my family
happy and calm. Because I have three miserable hours stuck
with them in a car. I realize we need a coat.
I go into target. My son starts being difficult. I say,
(14:31):
I distract. I say, hey, do you think if we're good,
we could maybe get a pack of gum on the
way out of here? You are so condescending. And then
I leave to target. Oh, oh yeah, you just bail
on the jacket. You know what should I would buy
the jacket, but I would just distract him from his stubbornness. Ah, well,
(14:56):
you might have done it. You might have nailed it.
We'll never know. As a result, he had a freak
out on the way back. And boy, I handled it great.
You know what tonight? I am was incredibly overwhelmed today
with a bunch of things, and I shut down at
a certain point, and you very dramatically shut down. Yes,
(15:19):
it was really bad, and I literally just had to
go lay down. Can I say what happened? I came home,
I came early from work because it's like stormy outside,
and I walk in the front door. The kids are
directly in front of the door, blankets spread out. There's
like toys ulster and all over the place, and like
a lot of like weird messes, like where they got
(15:40):
into things that are not for kids. And they're like
just I'm like what were they doing? Why is this
thing here? And like where is my husband? And then
I go and you're laying down in the dark in
the bedroom, clearly overwhelmed by something. Uh, And so I
closed you in there and and you cleaned up the night.
(16:04):
You don't know how much I appreciate it, because it
was me trying to start unloading the dishwasher after making
dinner that caused me to snap, and I said, I'm
way down. But I'll tell you what. I was so
defeated by the day that I had no energy to
be confrontational with my kids, and I just let them
(16:27):
sort of pass through me. See that's me a lot
of the time. I'm just like I'm so tired, and
like I need this Sunday to involve rest and just
eat lunch meat, whatever you want. The thing that was
great is that I had no I had no frustrations
with them, I had no anger towards them. I had
(16:49):
just was going through a personal crisis and anything they
were doing, I just remained completely calm. And there was
almost zero fighting all night in bedtime. You know, you
saw them freaking out of bedtime. I had to lay
down the law and do ultimatums, but I did it
with zero attitude and zero aggression and it was easy.
(17:12):
And I didn't and I was like, I need to
remember what this feels like, minus the defeated, exhausted apart
and just be be liquid not a wall. Does that
make sense? Yeah, I'm drinking vodka cranchon. What am I? Nineteen?
(17:41):
That was? That was a very specific college thing I
got drunk on once that it's real gross to me. Now,
what's yours? You made? You made a drink that you
now think it's gross. Um, it's something I drank excessively
one night before I knew what that meant. And so
(18:02):
now that vodka is ruined for me. The thing that
I think is a gross that I would drink when
I was like underage, like or people around me. I
would drink is like, um, oh my god, what's it
called in the Big Lebowski with the kohlua and milk?
Right Russian? White Russian? Um, we would drink those for
(18:25):
some reason. It's like you and I went through a
white white Russian kick in two thousand. It's like it
just makes you feel gross after a while, Like you're like,
why am I drinking all this like sugar and milk?
Like you know, it's not you're it's like a milkshake,
Like why it's so delicious? I mean I do stuff
like that. I think it's fine if you're at like
(18:47):
a holiday party or something and you have like one drink,
but like you just it's not like something you should
This is my tenth white Russian, so gross, but one
is yummy? Yeah? Should we get back into white Russian?
What if that's where this goes? Next week? You guys,
(19:09):
when you hear this clinkety clanketty, it's gonna be a
white Russian And now it's time for do you know
what they're saying? This is where we talked about shit.
(19:34):
I was gonna say, ships our kids say, so we're
talking about our kids saying we used to have on
that was like, we knows why they're saying the darndest thing.
Do you remember um because intro it's a different title. Yeah,
we can't remember anything. Um. So tonight I was pulling
(19:57):
out Brent's school photos because I was going to cut
some up for to give out to people, and um,
the class photo was out and Brian saw it and
he was like, I mean, first of all, he got
mad at me because he was like, he was like,
I was talking about how we're going to give some
of the photos to his grandparents, and he was like,
(20:17):
we can't give them this one because it's like all
of his friends. And he's like and I'm like, no,
it's okay, We're not going to give him that one.
And then he was like holding the photo over by
himself and looking at the kids, and he was looking
at this girl, Reagan, and he was like whispering to
himself and he goes, don't forget about me, Reagan. I
(20:44):
don't know, I don't know if he saw that on
like an X Men cartoon or something like don't forget
about it. Just feels like he saw someone like wistfully
staring at like a photo, Like, where did he come
up with that? Because he left the room. He was like,
I was like, what are you saying? And he's like,
what nothing? And then he left the room and as
he was walking away, he did it again. He was like,
(21:05):
don't forget about me, right, listen, I don't want to
project anything onto Mike into my children. Um, but he
had inklings if he talks about how cool she is, Yeah,
I mean he he likes a lot of kids in
his class. Yeah. So it's it's hard to tell because
(21:26):
he was talking about having girlfriends. But then it became
clear that he just thought girls, you're friends. What are
called girlfriends? Um? So he doesn't idiot. He does love
like romantic love stuff though. Oh so we watched Home Alone. Yeah,
I'm doing Thanksgiving break And it's the first time I
(21:48):
think he would transition this into we knows what they're watching?
We already did, okay, And I think it's the first
time you sat through an entire live action movie. Maybe
that might not be true. It feels like the first
time our kids have watched like a classic live action
kids movie. Like, I'm sure they've seen other things, but
(22:09):
it's a pretty rare that they sit still and like
like watching the whole movie. They watched the whole thing.
They loved it. I love he keeps going. Remember when
Kevin put the soap on his face and said, trying
to keep explaining what after shave is that it's pointless.
But they love it. They love the violence. This sort
(22:32):
of actually the Maven sometimes she the um robbers will
come on, she goes, I don't like the bad guys.
She got scared. She got a little scared during parts
of it, and she left the room during Home aloan too,
but Come Alone one, which is an excellent movie. There's
some rough language in there for five year old. They
(22:53):
were very violent. They used the word ass more than once.
In Homeland who they They literally show a clip from
a black and white film where a woman is shot
to death on screen, like it's they do that in one,
but it's like I know both times it's very violent.
Keep the change of fealthy animal. I love one. There's
(23:15):
all the so I wish they could replace those scenes
like they should do an edit. It's just like no, no,
don't touch the thing. So that house so violent. There's
also one scene where I was tempted to cover Maven's eyes,
which is like, because I hate watching people get hurt.
You arrived when he steps on the nail, when he
(23:36):
says something nails so gross. Me didn't disturb me until
I was older. Yeah, probably, but me, I think maybe,
and I are sensitive to watching people get hurt. Well,
she seemed like overall she loved it. People falling down here.
I think when the falls are really comical and it's
like slipping like that's funny, Like that's funny for most people.
(23:58):
It's when it looks like like when you're seeing an
iron get dropped on someone's face and like they're burned skin.
That's when I'm like that favorite part. She described it
in a weird way if she didn't know what it was,
but she thought it was really well there. Yeah, there's
parts of it where they don't understand what's happening, But
as you get older, it's disturbing. What is it? What
(24:21):
does buzz say? I wouldn't I wouldn't let you sleep
in my room if you were growing on my ass.
The tension between Kevin and his family is so well done.
When she takes when Katherine Harritt takes upstairs, he goes
up to the attic, you really feel her like making
(24:45):
some not necessarily empathetic choices, but you feel her exhaustion
as a mom who's trying to pack like a bajillion
kids for a trip. Well, when he says, I hope
I'd never see any of you ever her again, and
she goes, I hope you don't mean that. I do,
Like I teared up. Yeah, when you become a parent,
(25:10):
suddenly you have to rewatch every movie you've ever watched,
and now there's a whole new layer where you're like, oh,
now I get it. I got teary during that fight
scene in him saying that he wished they had all disappeared.
You'd be pretty sad if you woke up to morrow
morning and you had no family. No, I wouldn't. Oh,
(25:32):
this is another funny and at the end, but at
the end when she comes home, it's very emotional. And
Brand cried when he hugged his mom and she was back,
and I wanted to hug him and cry toive. I
do think it's like a really primal thing to make
kids movies about like not having a mom around, Like
(25:54):
it's so like kids are like that's the worst. Um,
I just started reading reading James the Giant Peach tonight,
and the first two chapters are harsh, like Aunt's aunts
Spiker and on Sponge are terrible and they just make
him cry. And the end of the second chapter he
runs off and just sobs into his hands. So Bryn
(26:17):
had another do you know we know's what they're saying
moment after the movie where I was like, so, Bryan,
what was your favorite part? And he was like, remember
when they left him alone. It's like he's just so
casual about it. He's like, do you remember the part
where they left him alone? His favorite part was the
full premise of the movie thing when he was home alone.
(26:42):
He has a good point that like that's sort of
the crux, Like that's really what's driving the movie. So
I grew up in the same town as to where
that movie was filmed. I know, well, it's it feels
like a very weird set up for going there for Christmas,
because I was like, there's multiple airport scenes in O'Hare
(27:06):
and I was like, we're gonna be there, Yeah, We're
gonna be at this airport and they go their house,
We're gonna be four blocks from that house. I just
gave you a hint tist to where you can find us. Um,
the poor people that own that house now they had
to put up a big fence because now that the
Internet has happened, there's fucking weirdo idiots like sneaking into
(27:30):
their backyard. They have all these signs up. That's like
no trespassing because clearly people go around the back of
their house and take pictures and ship It's like, don't
don't do that. Don't do that. People don't go into
other people's yards. Never although has there ever been a
movie where a house was a more central character, Like
(27:54):
I know every room in that house, the story telling
Satanic room. I don't remember what handeck room, have it?
On the hill? I don't remember the physical space cabin
on the hill, pork drop Bay, what's the one inferno?
Towering inferno? I mean you're naming movies where buildings are locations,
(28:22):
But what movies have buildings in which you could describe
the relationship of all the rooms or you can visually
picture how everything connects. I don't think you can visually
picture how everything connects in the home alone. I could
draw you a picture. No, you couldn't I'm if it
(28:45):
wasn't so late, I would I would demand that we pause,
and I would draw a picture, and then we'd google
it and compare. Well, because you lived in a town
where this house was, you've seen it from all angles. Well,
I've not been inside it. There are plenty of movies
where people are iconically familiar with this set at location.
(29:06):
I'm not saying there aren't other movies. Downtain Abbey. I
couldn't tell you how that thing's put together because he
didn't watch the show closely, not as closely as you've
watched Home Alone. It's true. I've seen Home Alone times
best Christmas movie. Just think about movies before you make
(29:26):
grants sweeping statement. I'm thinking about all the other ones,
all the other one. You're thinking all the other ones,
the Millennium Falcon, I don't even know that as well. Nope, Hogwarts,
(29:47):
I don't know how it's connected. Well, that's partly because
they changed those locations between movies. Gimmy started. But could
you could you say where the shire is in location
in relation to um bag End? A bag End is
(30:08):
in the shire? Yeah, come on, I meant the town
of Bree. It's the next stop the riven Dad, I
don't even got those forest elves. And then we got
to go down that river, that waterfall and Florian Gondorum.
This is movie crush. Chuck Bryant, Um, Chuck Bryant. We
(30:35):
need to plug at least once every podcast. It's true.
Oh yeah, so Check texted me because um, we mentioned him,
but he also wanted to say that I said something
that I didn't realize I said, which is I meant
to And even as he was texting me, as I
didn't understand what he was talking about why it was
(30:55):
so funny, But I meant to say, um, all presses,
any press is good press. All press is good press.
But I said all news is good news and that
doesn't make sense. Yeah, well, we get tired when we're
recording this podcast, but you know, all news is good
(31:17):
news in my book. Oh boy, this is empty. How's
that white Russian? It's hey man, the dude abides And
(31:46):
now it's time for Did you notice this is where
we share some stuff that we read or learned recently. Beth,
you got one, take it away? Okay, So there's an
article from the New York Times by Jessica Gross. It's
called Early motherhood has always been miserable. Um. And then
they quote this thing says, I declare, if I thought
(32:08):
I was to be thus occupied for the rest of
my life, one new mom wrote in eight I would
lie down and die. Um. And so the article sort
of like goes on to explain that like traditionally middle
ages and earlier people people considered babies to be basically
hell beasts, and they acknowledged how exhausting they are. Um.
(32:34):
And then around the Victorian age and and afterwards they
started creating sort of this idealized version of motherhood to
sort of like keep these as. As society industrialized in
middle class white women were no longer being put to
work all the time, they had to shift their focus
(32:56):
to exclusively child rearing and um, so they created this
sort of like fiction of how mothers are so constantly
loving being around their children, their precious, beautiful children, and
it's so easy and it's it just comes so naturally
to us, and we love it. I like this article
(33:18):
set it up. Set it up that in juxtaposition of
non juxtaposition, in mirroring today's sort of the idealized Instagram
version of motherhood. Look at my perfect family, I lay
my baby out and see the here's the three month picture,
(33:39):
and they've got an elaborate you know, all that stuff.
If you do that, that's fine, that's great. But and
then also the you know, the comedians and writers of
the Parenting as Hell, down in the down in the
muck um and this article is a really interesting job
of painting a picture of around this time. You're describing
(33:59):
as that's always been true, just in a different media format. Yeah. Well,
and it's interesting because I think when it's one of
those weird paradoxes where when women were sort of doing
more like exclusively child rearing and like maintain the household
(34:21):
and stuff, they almost feels like in some ways they
got more respect for it. And then as we've started
like making up like these various um standards for women
to live up to, where we sort of just like
devalue them all and like, uh, don't give credit for
(34:42):
the effort that goes into them. That's interesting. I don't know,
it's just very how do you feel let's talk about
how do you feel about ah, how how do you
how do you present yourself as a mother to the world. Well,
(35:06):
I mean, obviously today I'm doing this podcast, and I
wrote a book about pregnancy called There's No Manual. You
can pre order now out February fourth, um. But I
when I first became pregnant, I feel like in the
I think this is a general thing, but especially like
in New York thing, I kind of felt like everyone
(35:26):
was like, Wow, what a lame choice you've made. Why
would you want to have children? I guess you're someone
who just loves children and is boring and bad. Like
that's sort of the vibe I got from people that
I feel like men don't get that reaction. Like I
had moments where I would like be getting drink, like
drinks like in sort of like a networking type of
comedy setting, and like some guy would be like talking
(35:50):
to me, like very interested, and then like I would
say something about being pregnant when I guess I was
not like visibly pregnant, and like their reactions on people
faces and like how they're regard for me just fell
so swiftly and like it was just but it's like
such a weird thing because it's like I thought you
(36:12):
were a sex object and now you're a mom. Like
it's just like this weird, Like or do you also
feel like maybe you've got some of the like, oh
maybe now you're fragile, and I don't know, it's a
lot of things, but it's just like I don't think people.
We live in the society that devalues women. Therefore, women
doing some of the most valuable and intrinsically female behavior
(36:36):
of procreating, are are essentially devalued the most because if
we've valued what is being done by women in terms
of bearing and raising children, we would have to acknowledge
that all of society needs to be restructured around this
like incredibly hard, crazy thing that people are doing. Like
(36:58):
it's just like it's um, I don't know, it's very
it's like just so weird. Do you live in a
world where when you look around at your mom friends
and you're like, wow, these people are raising kids or
holding down jobs there helping their husband with his various
health issues. They're like they're just like the like, it's
(37:20):
some of the most capable people I know, and it's
not just at home, but like in their jobs and
there whatever. And then to know that they're being treated
like they're lesser than when in situations when they're actually
more capable is very frustrating because it's like we devalue
any kind of emotional labor, anything that requires intuition, anything
(37:43):
that requires like sensitivity, where like, oh, that's just dumb,
bad work, like you know, Like, yeah, I also feel
I think you're right you you mentioned this, but you know,
in our social article at the time, do we really
have any close friends with babies and so on? On
(38:05):
top of that are very specific scenarios people like I
don't I don't know, it's not a real thing until
we did it, and they especially didn't know how to.
I also think when you live in a world that
operates all around all of these different structures and schools
and daycares and whatever, like, it's I think it's very
(38:29):
hard for a lot of people to not like when
you experience a life change like this, like you get
married or something like suddenly you're part of like the
marriage industrial complex. If you're not thoughtful or like, or
if you're you like, don't even notice necessarily that you're
aware of all these pressures on you to behave a
certain way as you're experiencing this thing that like are
(38:53):
not necessary, like and you know what, I'm just gonna
as usual just sort of swing this into an endorsement
for Elizabeth Warren. But what I love about her candidacy
so much is that she really understands the struggles real
people are facing, real women, real moms, women trying to
(39:14):
have jobs so they can both support their children and
be there for their children. Like I just I like
when she she had this really beautiful moment on the
campaign trail this week where this young girl who was
nearly in tears was asking her what she's done when
someone she loved didn't like respect her thought decision or
(39:35):
thoughts about something. I don't remember the question exactly, but
it was like, have you ever been in a position
where somebody really cared about, like, did not support you?
And Elizabeth Warren starts like also kind of like tearing
up and talking about her mom. Her mom had raised
her to believe that she needed to marry well and
that that was the goal. And I'm sure that was
(39:56):
not an uncommon thing for a mother of Elizabeth Warren's
mother generation to try to steer their daughter towards because logistically,
she wants her daughter to have a good life, and
she comes from a generation where women didn't work. And
Elizabeth Warren when she was divorcing her first husband in
the marriage wasn't working out. Her mom was really disappointed
in her to not make it work, and she's like,
(40:17):
I just couldn't make it work, and like that's what
I love about her candidacy is she understands like real life,
Like she will weave stories like this and stories about
her dad having a heart attack and her mom having
to go to work for the first time like shell.
She understands the things that real people are going through
and the ways that the structures that we have set
(40:40):
up in our society are not allowing people to live healthy,
happy lives. There was some some stories this weekend of
those those same generational expectations that seems so crazy to
(41:01):
hear now that you mean, like from my mom whose
father wanted her to get married and not he was like,
he'll just get a man to take care of you.
You don't need to go to nursing school. And it's
and it's that was not that long ago, where well
it's funny because it's not just like offensive and like
you know, limiting, but it's also just bad life advice.
(41:25):
Like my my mom is always like in retrospect, if
I hadn't had a job, I don't know how we
would have survived, Like she needed a job. Like it's
just it's but like he didn't have any other reference.
I'm sure I can't relate to um growing up in
(41:47):
a place in time where like, yeah, that there, you
didn't see other options, and so it's like, oh, yeah,
that's that's how people do it, right, But it's detached
from reality, and it's detached from women's reality, and it's
detached from like the like observing the women around you
and what they're experiencing. Because like my grandfather said that
to my mom. His his dad died of tuberculosis when
(42:09):
he was like a baby, Like he didn't like his
mom obviously was supporting him. He grew up poor, he
had jobs, like after school jobs from a very young
age to like support the family, Like he it shouldn't
be a mystery to him that like work is not
a thing to like deny yourself, Like I'm sure his
(42:30):
mom was working. Um, it's just we uphold these ideas
of like, especially with white women, this like form of
white womanhood that is like the purest best way of
being and it's like it's narrow and limiting but also
(42:50):
too many boxes to check at the same time, like
it's it's an impossible standard. Well, I think we can
all agree that we're glad your mom went to nursing school.
We're very glad um And uh, would I have would
I know you if she hadn't? Um? I don't know.
(43:13):
Maybe who does I mean? So thank you best mom
for not listening to that advice. And thanks for the
heart surgery that my mom had at a very young
age that had inspired her to be a nurse. Yeah,
thank you. Your mom's the best mom. We had one
of the, as I understand, one of the very early
(43:35):
first open heart surgeries before it was a common thing.
It was like, yeah, it was very one of they
were it was very new for them to be doing
open heart surgeries, specifically on children I believe, but probably everyone,
and they it was one of those things where they're like,
we don't know if it's gonna work. So then when
it did work, they would like parade her around like hey,
look at that. They would literally throw parades like they'd
(43:59):
have like a miss Art fun thing and like have
these like little girls who had hearts are like March
March girls stands around and proved to people that healthcare
is a worthy thing. Um. Yeah, well, I'm glad that
worked out. I'm glad she's alive and that I was
able to be an alive person. I'm glad that you
(44:21):
were able to be an alive person, because this podcast
would be real awkward if you weren't one. Welcome back
to Peter and uh make Believe Corpse, an awkward show
that nobody likes and makes everyone uncomfortable because I'm gonna
stop it explaining this. Um anyway, babies are actually terrible.
(44:44):
Get their records straight for the rest to live with
the baby they are. My favorite quote in this article
is in the Middle Ages, they referred to them as,
as you said, hell beasts. I'm like, yeah, you know,
sometimes our kids are a little hell beasts, you know, argurt. Well,
I think also back then they were like, well, that
woman probably have like ten babies. We don't need to
(45:05):
value this one specifically. We'll start valuing it when it
lives past two. I mean, half of these aren't going
to make it. Yeah, they were like, let's not invest
too much in the agricultural revolution. When everyone sat down
and started farming, they produced so much food that you
could have a bunch of babies, but way more of
(45:26):
them die because we're all unhealthy. Can I tell you
one of the funniest things one of my midwife said
to me after I think while I was pregnant or afterwards,
after the baby. I can't remember. One of the midwives
who is this really no nonsense woman who I kind
of love, but she's like, can be very curt um.
She was talking to me about breast feeding and talking
(45:48):
about like trying to get like a not painful latch,
because you know, no one wants a painful latch. You
got to force these kids to learn how to do
it or it's not killing you. But she was saying
she would should be like if you were like living
in like cave times or something, and this baby is
like gnawing you're nipple off, you just leave him under
a bush. Like she was just like, you wouldn't put
(46:12):
up with that. Like she's like, and it's really funny
to hear that because you're just like, oh, yeah, like
if this is if I was just going on primal
instincts and I was like, this thing came out of me.
It's sucking the life out of me. And it's incredibly
painful and I'm tired and sore and i just want
to like not like you can see how in certain
(46:32):
situations of like desperation, like it makes sense why like
women literally experienced psychosis and maybe under bush. But that's
why that cry, that cry gets you back. You're you're
run out of the cave and you're like, I'm through
with that. Then you hear but you're like, oh, no,
(46:53):
other emotions, but you have to bond with the baby first,
and that doesn't always happen. There's a lot of conflicting
rewards system was in your brain. And that's why if
you're a postpartum woman in the modern world, if you're
experiencing difficulties, you should seek help from a mental health
professional because it's very common to feel horrible for help. Okay,
(47:20):
have you talked enough about the hell beasts? Yeah, dude,
this has been another episode of We Know his parenting.
We love you, um. But also, if you want to
reach out, ask a question, send us some advice, share
some cool send us an email We Knows pod at
gmail dot com, or call our voicemail number at three
(47:43):
four seven three eight four seven three. Right, it's a review.
Leave us a rating wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe,
subscribe and my baby's we'll see you next time. A
fish
We Knows Parenting News
Hosts And Creators
Beth Newell
Peter McNerney
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