October 23, 2018 • 54 mins
After daycare raises some concerns about Bryn’s “listening” skills, Peter and Beth start to realize that maybe not everyone thinks their kids are as great as they do. They then give Bryn a crash course on the concept of selfishness, realizes they’ve neglected to teach Maeven numbers, and then ultimately (and perhaps too quickly) decide to forgive themselves for their failures as parents. Peter and Beth then discuss a study about the effects of praising kids for their intelligence vs. effort and read some listeners mail about the appropriate amount of time and temperature in which it is acceptable to leave your kids in the car.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to We know his parenting. I'm Peter McNerney.
We are parents. We have kids. They are two and four.
Their names are may, Ben and Brian. You're all caught up.
That's the context new listeners. I've had a lot of
new listeners in the past couple weeks. Has been very exciting.
A lot of news, a lot welcome guys, Welcome to
the party. It's not pretty in here. We talk about kids. Yeah, yeah,
(00:36):
we don't know what we're doing, and that sort of
our thing. Um yeah, a lot of the listener mail
we get, um, it's not surprising, but a lot of
like thank you so much for not being afraid to
admit how terrible you are it being parents. Yeah, well
you said did you say in the last episode you
(00:57):
were like, that was not my intention to not know
what we're talking about, And I was like, no, that
was my intention all along to make this a podcast
about the gray area. I guess that's not what I meant.
I didn't expect us to be experts. But because I didn't,
I didn't think that like people would love love to
(01:18):
hear about people failing. People love vulnerability, and that's like
scientifically proven, like they are drawn to people who are vulnerable,
and yet we all are constantly putting on the front
of knowing what we're doing. It's true, it doesn't make
us likable, but we think it does. Well. You don't
want you don't want people. You want people who are vulnerable,
(01:41):
but you you also want people to be a little
bit of a little bit ashamed of their vulnerability. It's
that balance of confidence and humility. You know, those people
that are just like that, they're humble. We like people
that are a healthy balance of humility and confidence. You
(02:03):
go too far describing vulnerability, well, I mean, not exclusively.
If you're vulnerable, then it's obnoxious. That's not true. Oh yeah,
send us your stories. I'll love them. Peter will hate them.
I'm like, just don't force your problems on me. But
if you show me that you are like, are not
(02:23):
trying to put them on me, then I'll be like,
now I empathize even more with you. I'm going to
say this with certainty of fact. Quoted to be by
someone who read an article that people love vulnerability and
they are drawn to it. Oh, I I agree, but
that's too generalized a statement. In general, I agree that
(02:44):
you so what you're saying is that in general you
agree if that is proven to be correct, but in
circumstances where it's proven to be incorrect, you did disagree.
It's a matter of relativity. Somebody who's just always like
always vulnerable and like telling you what's wrong with them, Like,
give it a break. Don't force all of your problems
on all of us all the time. In conclusion, you,
(03:06):
Peter McNerney, are with us on this point until the
one time when it has proven wrong, and then you
were against us historically. That is a fact. It's on record.
I stopped listening anyway. All right, let's get into it
Weekend Review. I want to start with a quote from
bren Brennan started saying something and I've heard him saying
(03:27):
it multiple times now. And we were at dinner and
I got him some grapes and he picks one up
and he looks at it and he holds it up
like a hamlet holding Yorick's skull, and he goes, I
love a good grape and popped it into so many
weird things that we kep. I don't even know what
(03:49):
he said, but he walked in the bedroom the other
day just like with his most pompous serious air on
and was like strutting into the room and he just
he probably just said something like I'm ready to watch
TV or something, but like I laughed at him and
then he was like what he was embarrassed and he
knew he was doing it, which is just a concept
(04:12):
a thing you also do, which is just like walk
in performing. This is a very relatable things. Well, it's
that like people like to be in control of laughs,
like I like to make people laugh and Britain loves
to make people laugh. But that line between I'm making
(04:33):
you laugh and you're laughing at me, like if he
doesn't understand why you're laughing, he's pretty sure he still
wants you to be laughing, but part of him is like,
you're not laughing at me, are you? Yeah, he doesn't.
He gets mad. He's he'll like he enjoys the laughter
and then all of a sudden hits the point and
he literally turns us and says, stop laughing at that, right,
(04:54):
it's not funny. Yeah. He was picked him up from
school today and on way back Brin, I was holding
Maven and we were all pretending to be horses. So
I was galloping with Maven in my arms, and she
was laughing hysterically. And then Brandon goes, I'm a horse
and he was running on the sidewalk and he fell
on the sidewalk and he landed on his hands, but
(05:15):
he was okay, and he gets up. But then Maven
laughed and it's not funny. And I try to have
a conversation with him about she was laughing with you,
not at you, and he was not having it. Yeah,
he's really trying to be in control of the laughs.
So this week we took our family to Brooklyn, way
(05:37):
far away, way far away, to uh our closest friends
in the world's house. It wasn't better drive actually than
the last times I've driven to Brooklyn, because it was
like it was a Saturday, under an hour. Maybe there's
no big deal, I know, but I've driven in on Saturdays,
and you just never know. Saturday, this horrible forsake and
city we live in. It can just to do our
(05:59):
traffics that, yeah, okay, you going I want to take
the b que on a Saturday afternoon? Is this the
universal thing? Where I grew up, they would call it
traffic on the threes And then it was like the
it was like three past the hour, and they would
tell you the traffic report. Well there's I've heard traffic
on the nines. Okay, Well that's wrong because it's supposed
(06:21):
to be traffic on the three. Sorry Boston. Okay. So anyway,
it was not bad. It was and we saw our
friends and it was pretty low key and it was
people with kids with a kids. So it was Brandon
Maven hang who are four and two hanging out with
a one year old, a fourteen monthear old, very confident, um,
(06:42):
pretty verbal, Yeah, one year old. There's I don't want
to discount the rest of the hang which is like
people we know and love. But one thing that it
will say makes a huge difference in hang out with
people is having a kid because they just have toys.
The fact that they're you're gonna say like because we
can relate to but they have a baby proof department
(07:05):
with toys in it, and our kids it doesn't matter
what the toys are because our kids have never seen
them before and that's magical and they're out of their
minds exciting. We have to talk about the fact that
this little girl has a ton of toys that we
gave to them because he's younger, and so Brian immediately
picks up a toy and goes daddy, she has the
(07:25):
same toy that I had. I lost this. Yeah. He
kept picking up her toys and being like, I used
to have one of these, but I lost it. And
we were like, well, I don't know what I mean.
I'm so funny that she has all the same ones.
So Bryn really liked playing with her because I think
she's not a threat, like she's one. Well, I have
(07:48):
to say that they're both Leo's. You have to say that.
I have to say that. I have to say that
they both using Leo energy. They both they're lighting up attention.
She sees him being a little louder than everyone else
in the room, and she's like, that's a cool choice
to make it because I'm a Leo. Her dad is
(08:10):
my comedy partner, and we're on the same wavelength. Sure, sure, sure,
sure you're responsible for this, but I'm saying that, I'm
saying it's not Leo, it's me, her birth circumstances and Leo. Anyway.
In contrast, Maven was I think very much threatened by
her presence and was not willing to play nicely. Yeah,
(08:32):
I mean, Mayven's just skeptical, and I get that about her.
She's just she's not easily one over. She's still, you know,
weighing the pros and cons, and she's not like all
she's seen of this girl is that she's a one
year old who doesn't know how to say any words
and who tries to take toys. And Maven's like, I
nobody talk to me. There are so many toys here
(08:55):
I have to get through, and if you talk to me,
I'm not going to get through all of them. Maven
was like, there's a brand Cheetos happening here, and there's toys,
and I'm not just going to give that up for anyone,
but not Brand. Brand was confident in his in his
placement in the hierarchy dog in Heaven because there was toys,
(09:16):
there was people he knows, and he was talking about
this in advance because I told him we're going to
see Nick. And he's also referenced Nick offhand, who is
your comedy partner, But he said he says Saturday nights
at the Magnet Theater, Bryn always describes Nick is funny,
and I literally brought up another kid at day Karen
or pre school and asked if he was funny, and
Brin said, no, Nick is funny. Nick is the only
(09:40):
person in the world was funny. That's nick thing, not
anyone else's. So Bryn was in heaven and he was
like basking and the attention and everything that was happening
and the jokes and like at some point he was
eating a quarter piece of a bagel and he walked
into their bathroom and I walked by and he was
just inning around with his eyes closed, smiling like he
(10:02):
was just like I would not want to be anywhere
else in the universe. This is to bring in full circle.
This is very much in line with Brinn saying I
love a good grape. He loves to take food now
and he'll put his chin up into the sky and
then he'll bring the food down to his mouth and
he'll take close his eyes, take a bite and go delicious.
(10:27):
We made dinner tonight and Maven said to me, Daddy,
this is the most delicious ever in the world. Wow. Well,
Brynn came in the better and last night when you
were putting them to bed, and he said, I'm going
to kiss mommy good night and then he came in
and kissed me and then he shut the door and said,
have a good sleep. He's like a grandpa already. Yeah.
(10:52):
The last thing I will say, um Maven, I've realized
doesn't know her numbers. And brand knew all of his
letters in his numbers so much earlier because he was
the oldest child, because you gave him NonStop number coaching. Yeah,
and he loves it, but loves math. Now Here's what's
interesting about this is that maybe the other night I
(11:15):
was reading her or no, it's like afternoons, I was
putting her down for a nap and reading to her alone,
and she was like she wanted to read the numbers book.
She got excited about it. And then like this is
like what's classically different between Brin and Maven is like
Brin when you were coaching him on numbers, he was
just swept up in the attention and trying to give
you a show. And Mayven there was like a look
(11:36):
in her eyes where she was like I need to
learn these numbers. Like she was you could feel like
a weight of responsibility because she was going through them.
And then like, as you have said before, she doesn't
really know with certainty passed the number six, seven, eight nine.
I think we cracked it tonight. But they've been difficult.
She's getting better, but she like she would get past
(11:58):
six and you would show her number and asked her
what it was, and she would like quietly whispered because
she knew she was wrong, and she would go for
just like really quiet, and she's just she's she's just
a hundred percent aware of like where she's measuring at
(12:22):
at this moment, and she's like looking forward and how
much work there is to be done, and she's really
feeling it. Whereas Brin would just like shout out numbers,
maybe get them right or Thursday, she didn't care, and
she's she knows, I think you're projecting a little bit,
(12:42):
but I think there are that I'm projecting a little bit,
But I there is a way that she's studying or
she's like she was like trying to get me to
coach her the way you didn't. She clearly was thinking
about the way that you were going to coach her
on this coming up, and she's like, I gotta do
better coaching. By the way, I realized she has memorized
the mistakes from the book because we did the same way.
(13:03):
So tonight we got out the squashy numbers and I
think she cracked it. She enjoyed that, like having it
in her hand. I have to recommend this to everybody
in terms of like learning letters and numbers. We have
these little foam like tub numbers and letters and just
putting them in their hands, it's a tangible thing. I
think they memorize with more parts of their brain. Sometimes
(13:23):
there's like dupilic kids and then they understand that like
the there's a blue aid and a yellow aid and
like eight does not mean like the blue thing. You
know what I mean? Um so um, now she knows
her numbers. She's very smart. This next segment is called
we Don't Know, We don't Know Doesn't where we share
(13:46):
a parenting moment that really illustrated that we don't know
what we're doing. Okay, so you know how we love
our kids and like in some way we're like, we
don't know, don't do wrong, But in other ways we're
what did he do? I think in general we're like,
our kids are great, We're fine. I didn't do anything,
(14:09):
but so I went too. Yeah, I went to daycare.
I went to go pick up our kids, and the
head of daycare, Um, it's like, can we have a
check in about Brin and Um, he's listening and just
saying that I knew instantly, Oh that's super stubborn streak
(14:32):
and like angry, selfish child that like we haven't really
fully dealt with who I just assumed like was not
a problem at daycare and it was only at home.
All the problems we've been putting off with our child.
That's he's that kid all the time, and I don't
he's not with them as much as with us, I think,
(14:53):
but he's I don't. I don't know. Well, so I
was like, okay, sure, and then a suddenly I'm like,
there's been a lot of problems and only now they're
telling us, Um, so Bryn will if he doesn't get
his way. He's four right now, and he is real stubborn,
(15:14):
real quick, and he'll say no, no, no, and he'll
run away, and once he calms down, you can have
a really reasonable conversation with it. But but this one
was basically like I'd like to meet and phrase it
well where she's like, so you can help us help him? Yeah,
she it's like weird news because she's right, our son
(15:37):
is uh not receptive to criticism. He's a four year
old and he's really ah, he's just like really in
his own head in a way that I would also
describe you as well. He's a combination of us, which
is he's in his own head and he lives a
moment to moment. But also if you say to him
(15:58):
like no, he he gets like he like doubles down,
and if he feels manipulated at all, like you, suddenly
it's like I will not be manipulated, and that combo
of the two us. Yeah, but like not being able
to like listen or appreciate like the greater good or
the rationalization of direction is more you. Yeah. Well, I've
(16:24):
been thinking all week like Okay, we're gonna talk and
we're gonna have a meeting on Friday, and uh, I
have to I think she sees me as as like
I've figured him out because I'm with him more, and
so I'm like, what am going to take here? Very
funny in in terms of you dropping them off and
then probably assuming that you're the more responsible parent. No,
(16:47):
I think they I think they know I have more
routines with them, which is true. Uh So I'm like,
what am I going to say? I have to feel like,
how do I communicate with to them? Like how I
deal heading off Brand's blow ups? Uh So that's that's
one thing. But before that happened, I came home and
(17:09):
I talked to Brand and I was like, Brand, you
know your teacher told me that, um, you've been having
some trouble listening. And I saw him freeze and he
looked at me in the way that instantly it was
as if a whole world of his I suddenly exposed. Yeah,
(17:30):
he's really become very aware in moments like this recently.
Or it's similar to when he's asking me to go
to Smash Burger or Cherry Tree and then I say, hey, um,
do you remember the last time we went there and
you were a total nut and I you were trying
to run out of the restaurant. And then he's like, um, well, um,
(17:54):
this time I will be good. Like He's like, yeah,
I mean in the good there's a lot of it's good. Yeah,
He's just I think he really is starting to be
able to understand I think time and time that things
have happened before. Understands like we remember things that happened
in the past, and he's starting to like reconcile with that. Yeah,
(18:15):
well so we I had this conversation with him when
I what I did not want to do was go like, Britain,
you were in trouble. I'm mad at you, because I
think the biggest tactic with Britton is like if you
show him that you are upset, then he's paying attention
to the wrong thing. Yeah, if you draw a line
in the sand, he's like, I'm winning this battle, like
(18:36):
he it's not a line in the sand, it's it's
a it's an emotion. When it feels personal. If I
come like I remain common, it's a matter of fact.
I can. I can give him boundaries and ultimatums and
they're very successful. But it's when I'm tired and I'm
like impulsive that I'm like what and I show him
(18:57):
that like aggressiveness, that it's like it's over. But that's
also why I think like sort of overstating the consequences
backfires because you're like sort of like I'm a bad
guy and I want to do all these bad things
to you, and then he sort of like just goes
into this reflective mode of like, yeah, so I've had
a lot of success this week. I've been thinking about
(19:18):
a lot. And so when he had a little meltdown
moment over whatever, you know, I'm like, Okay, it sounds
like you need just some alone time, alone time. He's
like no. So I take him in his room and
he like cries and pouts, and when I go back
in there, I went and I was like I started.
I tried to go backwards in time with him, and
(19:39):
I sit down and calmed down. I get close to
him and I just connect with it with him where
he is in that moment, and I say, do you
feel pretty upset right now? He goes yeah. I'm like, yeah,
I know, why are you feeling sad right now? And
he's like, because you said I couldn't do this thing?
And I go, yeah, do you know why I did that?
He goes no, Like do you remember when you threw
(20:01):
that bowl? Yeah? I mean sometimes you have to restart
like the same step of this conversation like ten times
and be like, yes, how are you feeling? Are you?
How are you feeling? How are you? Like it's just
like take a breath and look into my eye, like
you have to wait, you have to give him space
until he's calm, and then you walk him back through it.
(20:22):
And I had a really successful day with him. He's like, oh, okay,
So anyway, so today I was like, you need to
listen to your teachers. Let's I don't say you need
to listen to teachers. I was like, it sounds like
something we should work on. I know. So when they
tell you to do something, here's why. And then today
he comes home and he remembers this because I was
in the kitchen and he goes Daddy, and I could
(20:44):
tell he's excited to tell me something, and he goes,
I didn't listen at daycare and pre kay, Well, it's
funny because I think they're also talking to him. I
think it at preschool about sort of like controlling your
emotions and like taking breaths and stuff like that, which
I think it's really helpful to have that conversation happening
(21:04):
in multiple places where he can kind of be like, oh,
this is the thing, and not just like one person
trying to stop me. Yeah. And I think this is
where where our meeting with daycare could be really productive,
is if we're like, let's get in the same cage
the same page about vocabulary, and he'll hear him both
was but so so I go, you weren't listening huh?
And I tried to not do the like what you're
(21:26):
in trouble? And I was like tell him, um um,
well what happened? And then he's like, oh, I got
put in the kitchen, which is where like the timeout
zone is at daycare. And I was like, well, why
did you get put in the kitchen? He goes, because
I was, I wasn't behaving. Well. I was like, oh,
so you weren't listening and he goes yeah ah, and
(21:49):
like well what did you do? And then I see
him like really puzzle it through and he's like, m hmmm,
I don't remember. And I was like, well, what about
a pre k And he remembers the punishment, He remembers
why the teacher is mad because he's like not behaving
like bad behavior, And I was like, well, what did
(22:11):
they did they say you couldn't? Did they say no?
Were you being dangerous? And he's like I don't remember.
And I really believed him. It sounds so much like
you when I get mad at you and you're sort
of like backtracking hours after the fact after you've thrown
a huge fit about how I'm wrong, and then I'm like,
do you understand when I was mad about? And you're like, oh,
(22:33):
that's what you're mad about. You're like, I didn't stop
to listen to what you're mad about. I was just reaching.
I have learned this. You gotta admit right now, that's
the first thing I try to do is backtrack unless
I'm too emotional, and then I know I can't. I'll
do it later. But it's also there's this there's this
dead air between the thing that makes you mad because
you won't say it, then you'll stew on it and
(22:55):
it will explode about something else later. And I'm visibly
mad and you're ignoring it. But okay, let you think
so you are, so let's not get into it. You
we're both doing a lot better. No, I know this
about me, but yeah, this is the game that men
get to pretend like they don't see things. And you
(23:15):
know you that you like perfectly happy but just want
to watch TV looks the same as you want to
kill me a lot of the time. And then why
are you skittish and making distraction moves away from because
I'm always I always assume you're mad at me. Let's
(23:36):
unpack that later. But so Britan is, uh, he knows
the pieces now and this is clearly and yes, you're right,
this is the same problem with me. But it's it's
tracing it back, and I'm like, oh, let's this is
my tactic from now on when something happens is to
(23:56):
let him calm down, get down to his level, be
on his team, ask him about the moment he's in,
and then trace it back, and then keep tracing it
back until he can connect behavior with consequences every time.
Is this a good idea? I'm asking you America or
(24:17):
the world or wherever you are. I don't think it's bad.
I just yeah, that's another part of me. He's like,
whatever he's for, it'll be fine. It's just like hard
to um, it's hard to describe issues like this and
like prescribe solutions when I think, if you don't have
a kid like this who's like pushing the boundaries. And
(24:40):
I know all kids are to some extent, but if
you don't have a kid who does it at a
certain level, you don't really understand the problem. Whether people
are dealing with like I know someone currently in my
mom group who her son is. He's just like not
sleeping during the night. He's they have they're trying to
figure out some sort of like undiagnosed sleep issue. So
(25:01):
she she put her Apple Watch on him and tracked
his sleep patterns for the night and realized he was
not getting like any consecutive hours of sleep. And it
just is explaining so many of his behavioral issues, which
are not huge, but it's like it's maybe a small
step above. Brand is just like him sort of like
trying to make his friends laugh at school and like
dancing and like doing things that feel a little bit dangerous.
(25:22):
But he's just you know, he's like a four year
old and and like you, I don't know, it just
takes time to sort of like unravel things when you
have a kid. All kids have different issues, and like
they're not gonna I'll respond, Well, I also think that
(25:43):
like both of them, I think we were both very
good kids, like well behaved, we wanted to follow the rules. Yeah,
and I think this is also a bit of middle
two middle children trying to raise an oldest child. Yeah,
but I all to have to say it's because he's
Leo okay, and the conversations over. No, I want to
(26:07):
say one more thing. Actually, we were just in bed
just now having a very adorable um We're reading Where's Waldo?
All week and the classic novel, the classic story Where
is Mr Waldo? Um? And I was like talking about
behavior something and it came up and I asked bratty
questions and he told me, and he goes, I like
(26:30):
to play with Maven at school and somebody, another boy
wanted to play with Maven, but I didn't want him
to play with Maven. Only I can play with Maven.
And I was like, what about your other friend? You
like playing with him? And he goes, not as much
as mavens of it, like, and I was like, oh,
(26:51):
that's really sweet about his sister. And then I explained
to him that it's just it's I explained the concept
of being selfish, and I'm like, I think it's because
you don't want other people to have things that you
think are yours, and it's good to share. You can
try to all play together. And he goes, but I
only want to play with Maybe, And it was a
(27:13):
very difficult concept for him to be like, um, let's
think about other people's feelings. He's probably also trying to
control may even in that moment. And I said, maybe,
do you love playing with Brandy? And she goes, no,
She's really trying to keep up with the big kids.
A take here. I noticed in the like two seconds
when I went to pick them up, and Brynn was
(27:34):
running close to the street. And this is probably the
incident that triggered her take care provider to schedule this
meeting with us. But she was like trying to keep
up with them, and like bryn was like knocking her
down and she's crying and like she like I also
told last week the story of her trying to go
potty in front of Brind's friend. She's just like she
(27:55):
clearly just like every all the younger kids a day here,
just like lurre out in her field division, and she's
like focused in on the bigger cool kids like her
brother and her friend, her brother's friend, and she's just like,
I gotta be like that. I did. There is a
new girl at daycare that Brent says is the same
(28:16):
size as Maven, And I asked Mayven who her best
friend was, and she said, this girl's name and it's
the first time she's mentioned someone to be her friend.
So maybe it's a new era, I hope. So she
have to say this is This is gonna sound overly concerned,
but she doesn't have strong female friendships. This might be
the beginning. And when we're hanging out with our friends
(28:37):
this weekend and their little one year old daughter, Maven
was not cool. You are a threat to me. She
is not mature enough to handle female friends. This next
segment is called did you Knows? This is where we
positive hypothetical parenting problems to each other. What do you know?
(29:01):
What this segment is? That's that's what you knows. I
don't have a screen in front of me like you do.
We've done twenty four episodes. This is did you know?
You boxed me in with this insane looking microphone stand.
There's no room for a computer here. I'm flying by
the seat of my pants. I'm just trying to make
this my phone. I got my phone in here. It's
very bright. Um. Did you knows? Um? This is where
(29:25):
we learn a fun fact and share it. Maybe we'll
do would you know us? Later? This next segment is
called did you Know? This is where we share a
fun parenting related fact. All right, I read this in
New York magazine. So this was about a study that
was done u regarding praise and how it affects children
(29:49):
and their work ethic and the sense of themselves. Uh.
So this study and studied the effect of praise on
students in a dozen New York schools. Uh. It was
a series of experiments on four hundred fifth graders and
it paints a picture that's very interesting. So the researchers
would take a single child out of the classroom for
(30:11):
a non verbal i Q test consisting of a series
of puzzles. Puzzles easy enough that all the children would
do fairly well. Once the children finished the test, the
researchers told each student his or her score, then gave
them a single line of praise, randomly divided into groups.
Some were praised for their intelligence. They were told, you
(30:34):
must be smart at this. Other students were praised for
their effort, you must have worked really hard. Then the
students were given a choice of test for the second round.
One choice was a test that would be more difficult
than the first, but the researchers told the kids that
they'd learn a lot from attempting the puzzles. The other
(30:54):
choice was an easy test. Just like the first, of
those praised for their effort chose the harder set of puzzles.
Of those praised for their intelligence, a majority chose the
easy test. The quote unquote smart kids took the cop out.
Why did this happen? This quote? When we praise children
(31:15):
for their intelligence, we tell them that this is the
name of the game. Look smart, don't risk making mistakes.
And that's what the fifth graders had done. They've chosen
to look smart and avoid the risk of being embarrassed.
In a subsequent ground none of the fifth graders had
a choice. The test was difficult, designed for kids two
years ahead of their grade level. Predictably, everyone failed. But again,
(31:37):
the two groups of children, divided at random at the
studies start, responded differently. Those praised for their effort on
the first test assumed they simply hadn't focused hard enough
on this test. They got very involved, willing to try
every solution to the puzzle. Many of them remarked, unprovoked,
this is my favorite test. Not so those praise for
(31:57):
their smarts. They assured they assume to their failure was
evidence that they really weren't smart. At all. Just watching them,
you could see the strain. They were sweating and miserable,
and finally, having artificially induced a round of failure, the
researchers then gave all the fifth gators a final round
of tests that were engineered to be as easy as
the first round. Those who had been praised for their
(32:20):
efforts significantly approved on their first score by about those
who've been told they were smart did worse than they
had at the beginning. About fascinating, there's um I want
to say, it's a ted talk about this sort of
thing where it's like talking about having a growth model
(32:40):
for education versus this sort of like other model. I
guess it's sort of it's the same. It's essentially the
same results as this study, which is just like, have
kids focus on the fact that they can always learn
more and do better instead of trying to like label
them as smart or good or bad or whatever. And
it's like it's so true. It's just like you, I
(33:04):
don't know, you you do get labeled as the smart
kids or the dumb kids, and then you're sort of
like risk averse. Yeah, boy, there, because I'm thinking back
two being in school and I did not see myself
(33:26):
as I thought of myself as smart, but I didn't
see myself as a great student. And I couldn't freaking
read or spell until yesterday. But you were given, I
think a lot of encouragement in terms of like putting
yourself out there even though you were like the dumb
kid who couldn't read, even though I was the dumb
(33:51):
kid who couldn't read. You're I mean, I'm not going
to pass forwards. You were the dumb kids, but I
was not. I was not a good student until I
was a fine student until until the middle of high school.
And I remember I got I was I didn't perfectly fine.
And then I remember getting an A in chemistry, which
(34:13):
was supposed to be the super hard class that no
one got an A end, and I had worked really hard,
and I remember You're like, oh matter, Yeah, you'd been
like you worked really hard, and like that's not part
of my identity is that I dig into this and
like I did really well on that, and I'm still
proud of it. And it was the thing that I
wasn't naturally great. I wonder like now, like the thing
(34:37):
I'm supposed to be great at our probably are things
I worry I'm not taking risks with Yeah, I feel so.
When I was in middle school in fifth grade, which
is really young, they had us take tests. If you're
in school in fifth grade, yeah, they had a stake
test to apply to be part of the A T program,
which stood for Advanced something, and it was like you
(34:57):
would leave your classroom to go do these sort of
like specialized smarter supposedly classes like creative learning stuff, and
there was maybe like four different subjects you can try
to test into and they would be like something math, science,
eas something like creative writing, something leadership based. I don't
(35:19):
remember them all, but I know I didn't place into
the leadership one because it kept asking you questions of
like are you comfortable, you know, speaking up and telling
people what you know like leadership skills. And it's like,
as much as I am grateful for the classes I
got into and how that sort of like encouraged me
to think outside the box, it's like really somewhat upsetting
(35:42):
that me and so many other kids who didn't even
probably take this test because they didn't want to come
after school to take some random tests, or their parents
didn't know about it or whatever. Like the leadership one
is like a skill, like I honestly I feel like
I've tapped into a lot as an adult, but like
reluctantly so. And I'm it's weird that from a young
age I was sort of like, well, I'm not cut
out for that because i didn't do well on this
(36:05):
test and I'm not in that class, you know what
I mean. I mean that was the stuff that that
is what I saw about myself, Like, well, I can
always tell people what to do leaderships up. Well, I'm
realizing as I get older, because I went to a
private school. Uh, and it was small and a huge
benefit that that I'm only aware of now is that
there was none of that Like it was so there
(36:30):
was this air of like all of these classes. The
school has a great reputation. Everything is hard and there's
very little like testing into groups. There was far less
categorization than a lot of but like, essentially the school
is a categories yes, And I see where it affects
me in terms of how I viewed myself, uh, in
(36:52):
compared to everyone else outside of that, And that's something
I think that I've had to think about and like, uh,
real lies, like how I am spoiled blah blah blah.
But within that community, within that learning environment, there was
so little categorization because the school is so small, everyone
did all all the different extracurriculars and like within classes
(37:15):
there was very little like testing into things and um
like because all these worries you're talking about are totally
foreign to me. And I think that was good for
my sense of I can do anything I want and uh,
if I work hard, maybe yeah, I don't know. It's
(37:36):
very complicated. It's like, um, you, I don't it's hard
to say you don't necessarily want everyone on the same
track because people are coming to things with different skills.
But it's I think the current system and it seems
to be still operating somewhat similar to this is like
(37:56):
you get locked in at certain points and there's not
a lot of room to like move out of that.
And there's like especially like I don't know what we
now know about like kids development and stuff, and like
so many different factors of like what could be affecting
them in a given year based on like their mental
(38:16):
health or their life circumstances, or their economic circumstances, like
so many reasons they could like not be putting their
best foot forward on a certain six month period when
they're being tested for something. It's like it's just a
lot to put on a kid that's like defining their future.
But I think it for all humans, not just kids,
but you know, especially kids that uh, you know. I
(38:41):
think the American school system one of the good things
about it is it is more of a like learn
a bit of everything until you really figure out what
you want to do. And even in college, like you know,
where's like in England, you get on a like your
specific tract like much earlier. Yeah, but it's not like
and I think the point is, even if like kids
(39:03):
are our kids age, attaching education to a sense of play,
to a sense of their own curiosity and discovery in
any way you can is the best possible way to
set them up for actually absorbing information. And as soon
as you like standardize things in this way and categorize
a kid as good or bad at a thing, suddenly
(39:26):
that's how they see themselves. But like, I think what
part of we have to understand is like, Okay, the
American system is in some ways better than a lot
of countries. It's also behind a lot of developed countries
it's and the system is like has arisen out of
this need to like create docile factory workers, like people
who can take commands and follow directions and like work
(39:48):
in offices and do the jobs that we as a
society think are good jobs and necessary. And so yeah,
some good skills come out of that, but then there's
a lot of other stuff that's lacking. And like, our
system is kind of insane in the sense that like
how low it prioritizes foreign languages, and like how it
doesn't teach kids how to understand nutrition or reproduction or
(40:13):
how to cook a meal, you know, like how to
how to do their taxes. Like, there's a lot of
practical skills that it's kind of insane that in uh,
what is it, thirteen years of schooling, twelve years of schooling,
the kids don't learn these incredibly practical skills, but they
do are forced to memorize like state capitals and like
(40:36):
state state capital of Illinois. Hell, it's not a system
designed for the public good. I mean, it's also wildly
different all over the country and depending well. And it's
also controlled now by textbook companies which are controlled by
(40:57):
by politicians. Politicians, Oh, let's get into it anyway. I
am trying to with our children. UM, be aware of
that because I'm like, I'm quick to praise, but I
want to be praising where I can the effort. Um uh.
(41:17):
I mean if if they do something really cool, I'm
going to celebrate it and be like, I love this
picture you drew, like you learned your numbers yea. Um.
But I'm always going for the next thing too. And
I think Brin really connects, like with math, and he
learned something. I'm like, you want to learn about multiplication,
and he's I'll follow it as long as he is interested.
(41:39):
And I think that balance of being excited about their
discovery and encouraging the next thing without it being this
isn't good enough, you need to go further. This is great?
What else? And that's like generally the story parts model,
which is like kid writes a story and you're adding feedback.
(42:00):
It is that like wow, like it's so great that
you did this. This is something really cool that you did.
I wonder what else you could do here? Keep going.
And it's like a weird balance because like our preschool
asked us this questionnaire of like what brand's strengths and
weaknesses are and what he responds to, and we were
talking about how he really responds to attention, and they clearly,
(42:22):
I think, tried to tap into that right away because
they made him like line leader and calendar leader, and
they're he loves demonstrating for the class like how to
do things, so they really got on his good side
and sort of like made him a proactive member of
the classroom, which I think is great. But then on
the other hand, I think, similar to what our daycare
(42:45):
instructor Runner is trying to say, it's like he also
needs to understand just like basic rules and not like
always be catered to you, just you don't get your way,
you don't always get what you want, and that's a
really hard lesson. Are all kids, but especially one that
thinks he's as wonderful as Brin does. This next segment
(43:10):
is called Listeners Want to Know is This is where
we take some questions and thoughts from our listeners. All right,
I got one email from Chris and Sarah from Wisconsin.
I grew up on two different sides of Wisconsin, in
Chicago in Minneapolis. Fun fact. Alright, Hi, Beth and Peter,
(43:33):
my wife and I love the podcast we started listening
after finding out my wife was pregnant. We are now
first time parents, and she gave birth to twins five
weeks ago. Oh my god, I can't even imagine. We've
been trying to get out of the house with them
at least once a day to get them used to
traveling with us, figuring out the routine. I've also gone
(43:56):
out by myself a few times and would take one
of our kids with me to make get easier on
my wife in case a double meltdown happened while I
was away. Now, at worst, either of us only had
to deal with one kid. And here comes my question.
While I was out a couple of times, I struggled
with doing the right thing. What is the socially acceptable
(44:17):
amount of time to leave your kid in the car alone?
Is there a number? Even We live in Wisconsin, so
the weather is in the sixties during the day. Right now,
I stopped to get gas and went to get a coffee.
I knew it would be quick, so I was going
to leave baby in the car. But I didn't want
anyone to judge me for leaving a child unattended, so
I popped out the car seat and took him into
(44:40):
the gas station with me for that quick coffee purchase. Um,
I don't know if it's him. I translated the name
to a pronoun and I made an assumption, so I'm
just gonna say them. Um. The same thing happened again
while wanting to go into a sub show up and
get some lunch. I knew that would take a little
(45:04):
more time, but still I had fear that someone may
see the kids and freak out, not knowing how long
they were in the car. If the weather is not
too hot nor too cold, and if the time is
less than five ten minutes, is it okay to leave
them locked in your car for that time? Love? Christ
and Sara, I added the love. They didn't say love. UM,
So this is like I think I read an article
(45:25):
about this a while ago, but I wish I remember
the title or what it was. But like the I
don't think there's a common, um clear rule of law
on this, and it probably varies state to state, and
a lot of it is determined by the judgment of
the police officer or anyone who's involved. In terms of
you leaving your kin your car, I don't know if
you're asking about safety or law. But I'm gonna answer
(45:47):
the law part first, which is just that I think
that's the main concern because you know, your kids probably
fine for five minutes inside the car while you get
a cup of coffee, and you probably can see the
car from where you're standing, but that and you have
to have them what if someone sees me? What if
someone gets mad? What if the police are? You know?
And that's the scarier part I think in this instance.
(46:08):
But I'll say I support you living that kid in
the car so you can go get a coffee. However,
it's not up to your decision because there are a
bunch of people that are now so sensitive to that
that they're going to call the police. And is that
worth it? No? And I think that's pretty bullshit, but
(46:29):
you have to do Unfortunately, like the big thing you
really have to consider with stuff like this is what
is the color of your skin? Because if you're a
white woman, it's so much easier to talk yourself out
of this type of situation with a police officer. Well,
in this case, we don't you know what I'm I
don't I don't know what the race of these people are,
(46:49):
but they're they're picturing white Wisconsiners. I'm imagining white Wisconsin
is also imagining if they were not white, they would
not be asking this question because they're probably just airing
on the side of caution where they know the level
of risk they're taking. Um. But it's just like it's
so different if you're not white. Well, I recently read,
(47:10):
because this happened in my hometown suburb of Chicago, that
someone let their eight year old daughter walk the dog
around the block and in the half block that the
mother couldn't see the daughter, somebody called the police honor
and like child Protective Services had to come, and like,
this is the town I grew up in. I walked
(47:31):
to school, and I walked home for lunch and back
to school starting in kindergarten, because that's what everyone did,
and that like I remember we a few years ago
and Christmas time, we were all there and we're doing
a neighborhood game of frisbee golf through the whole town
and the police pulled up and like what are you doing,
(47:54):
Like we're playing frisbee golf, Like, oh, that's fine, And
then later someone called the police on us. And this
is an event that my family has been doing for
forty years, and I'm like, what has changed where suddenly
someone like stopping in front of your house to pick
up a frisbee. He's like, call the police. Yeah, well,
I mean that all of these events too. I think
what you have to fathom is not just like the
(48:16):
judgments people will make about you in the moment that
the police show up, but then in the event that
Child Protective Services is sort of like putting you on watch.
What are the types of judgments they're going to make
about you in the coming months if they're like checking
up on you, and what's like because that's like, even
if you're a squeaky clean person and you're white and
(48:37):
all the biases are in favor of you, that's a
stressful situation to be put under, is knowing you're being
watched for your fitness as a parent. And I think
this came up in my mom group recently because we're
talking about if people are testing positive for marijuana when
they deliver their babies, which is sometimes a test they
will run, which again is much more common if you're
(48:58):
not white, And then you have to sort of like
make this people have to make these judgments of like Okay,
well maybe my pregnancy is making me feel super nauseous,
and I'd like to be able to keep food down
so that my kid can get food, and maybe smoking
pot would help me with that. But then I can't
necessarily fathom like the cost of the anxiety of doing
(49:22):
that thing, because if I have marijuana in my system
when I deliver this baby in several months and they
do decide to test me for that, then will I
be able to handle like the anxiety of having a
newborn baby and all the stress that that entails. Well,
also not knowing if someone's going to take my baby first,
even just feeling judged for it. I mean when Brin
(49:42):
was an infant, like you, when you had him in
a carrier case and you tripped on the sidewalk and
like he hit his head, yeah, and you went to
the emergency room and they had to have and it's
just like a low stakes version of it. They had
to have a social services person come and like talk
to us to make sure that we weren't neglectful parents.
And it's scary even not you're not being neglectful, right,
(50:06):
it's very scary. And I mean they luckily the Social
Services parents person who is um watching us have a
conversation with our doctor. She's sort of like quietly observing
from the corner of the room, and she was like
watching how we interacted with our kid. She came over
afterwards and she was like pretty nice and she was like, Oh,
(50:30):
don't worry. When I had my baby, she fell off
the bed three times, and I was like three times.
That was like a real wake up call to me
of like how accidents happened. In her defense, our kids
since then have fallen off the bed at least three times.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But this was when I had
(50:50):
like a new born. He was like a month old,
and it was really scary. It wasn't really scary. What
happened was I was carrying him in like a baby born.
We had literally moved to our apartment weeks prior, so
I wasn't familiar with the environment. I walked out the
front door and I didn't really understand where the curb
was aligned, and I stepped off the curb, not being
able to see down because I had a baby drawn on,
and I uh sort of like misstepped and fell and
(51:15):
tripped forward, and then Bryn's head hit the pavement and
technically you cracked a skull technically, but a hairline fracture
on his skull, which left me mortified, and it was
a really traumatic night. That was the same month where
the doctor was like, he's got a weird heartbeat, you
gotta take him. He also had a sort of a
jaundice situation. He had the high Billy Rubin levels, so
(51:36):
we had to go get his But once we found
out his body, his blood and his heart and his
brain were okay, we stopped worrying for the rest. Pretty
stressful first month of having your firstborn. So Chris Sarah,
it's fine to leave in the car, but don't because
other people I think you can judgment aren't worth it.
(51:57):
I think you just have to be aware of your
surroundings and like you have to know. Unfortunately, you do
have to do a calculation about where am I, what's
clear of my skin, what's happening. Yeah, just don't let him,
just don't let him, Just keep him in your eyesight.
There's no right answer, we promise. It's it's one of
you not call the police. It's one of those situations
are probably just a bigger weight off your mind to
(52:19):
carry the kid into the store with you. Unfortunately, and
get some sleep when you can. You guys, your heroes,
get some rest. This has been another episode if We
Knows Parenting. If you can go to our website we
Knows Parenting dot com, where you can find some merch.
(52:41):
We have a new T shirt with a baby that
says you sucked up because that's what it feels like
to be a parent sometimes. Yeah, and it's a reference
to earlier episode where brind told me that I fucked
up by turning off the TV on him. Yeah, I
mean his defense. You really, I don't know. If you
can also, please check us out on iTunes, review at
(53:03):
your podcast, rate, review, and subscribe Apple podcasts. They don't
like it when you call it iTunes. That's where you
buy music Apples podcasts. You can email us in your
questions stories at we knows pod at gmail dot com.
Find us on Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff, Facebook, Facebook,
(53:25):
find o you know, find our personal instagrams if you
want to see how funny our kids have videos coming
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a great day. Please by rate and review, Rate and review,
(53:47):
rate and review view
Hello, and welcome to We know his parenting. I'm Peter McNerney.
We are parents. We have kids. They are two and four.
Their names are may, Ben and Brian. You're all caught up.
That's the context new listeners. I've had a lot of
new listeners in the past couple weeks. Has been very exciting.
A lot of news, a lot welcome guys, Welcome to
the party. It's not pretty in here. We talk about kids. Yeah, yeah,
(00:36):
we don't know what we're doing, and that sort of
our thing. Um yeah, a lot of the listener mail
we get, um, it's not surprising, but a lot of
like thank you so much for not being afraid to
admit how terrible you are it being parents. Yeah, well
you said did you say in the last episode you
(00:57):
were like, that was not my intention to not know
what we're talking about, And I was like, no, that
was my intention all along to make this a podcast
about the gray area. I guess that's not what I meant.
I didn't expect us to be experts. But because I didn't,
I didn't think that like people would love love to
(01:18):
hear about people failing. People love vulnerability, and that's like
scientifically proven, like they are drawn to people who are vulnerable,
and yet we all are constantly putting on the front
of knowing what we're doing. It's true, it doesn't make
us likable, but we think it does. Well. You don't
want you don't want people. You want people who are vulnerable,
(01:41):
but you you also want people to be a little
bit of a little bit ashamed of their vulnerability. It's
that balance of confidence and humility. You know, those people
that are just like that, they're humble. We like people
that are a healthy balance of humility and confidence. You
(02:03):
go too far describing vulnerability, well, I mean, not exclusively.
If you're vulnerable, then it's obnoxious. That's not true. Oh yeah,
send us your stories. I'll love them. Peter will hate them.
I'm like, just don't force your problems on me. But
if you show me that you are like, are not
(02:23):
trying to put them on me, then I'll be like,
now I empathize even more with you. I'm going to
say this with certainty of fact. Quoted to be by
someone who read an article that people love vulnerability and
they are drawn to it. Oh, I I agree, but
that's too generalized a statement. In general, I agree that
(02:44):
you so what you're saying is that in general you
agree if that is proven to be correct, but in
circumstances where it's proven to be incorrect, you did disagree.
It's a matter of relativity. Somebody who's just always like
always vulnerable and like telling you what's wrong with them, Like,
give it a break. Don't force all of your problems
on all of us all the time. In conclusion, you,
(03:06):
Peter McNerney, are with us on this point until the
one time when it has proven wrong, and then you
were against us historically. That is a fact. It's on record.
I stopped listening anyway. All right, let's get into it
Weekend Review. I want to start with a quote from
bren Brennan started saying something and I've heard him saying
(03:27):
it multiple times now. And we were at dinner and
I got him some grapes and he picks one up
and he looks at it and he holds it up
like a hamlet holding Yorick's skull, and he goes, I
love a good grape and popped it into so many
weird things that we kep. I don't even know what
(03:49):
he said, but he walked in the bedroom the other
day just like with his most pompous serious air on
and was like strutting into the room and he just
he probably just said something like I'm ready to watch
TV or something, but like I laughed at him and
then he was like what he was embarrassed and he
knew he was doing it, which is just a concept
(04:12):
a thing you also do, which is just like walk
in performing. This is a very relatable things. Well, it's
that like people like to be in control of laughs,
like I like to make people laugh and Britain loves
to make people laugh. But that line between I'm making
(04:33):
you laugh and you're laughing at me, like if he
doesn't understand why you're laughing, he's pretty sure he still
wants you to be laughing, but part of him is like,
you're not laughing at me, are you? Yeah, he doesn't.
He gets mad. He's he'll like he enjoys the laughter
and then all of a sudden hits the point and
he literally turns us and says, stop laughing at that, right,
(04:54):
it's not funny. Yeah. He was picked him up from
school today and on way back Brin, I was holding
Maven and we were all pretending to be horses. So
I was galloping with Maven in my arms, and she
was laughing hysterically. And then Brandon goes, I'm a horse
and he was running on the sidewalk and he fell
on the sidewalk and he landed on his hands, but
(05:15):
he was okay, and he gets up. But then Maven
laughed and it's not funny. And I try to have
a conversation with him about she was laughing with you,
not at you, and he was not having it. Yeah,
he's really trying to be in control of the laughs.
So this week we took our family to Brooklyn, way
(05:37):
far away, way far away, to uh our closest friends
in the world's house. It wasn't better drive actually than
the last times I've driven to Brooklyn, because it was
like it was a Saturday, under an hour. Maybe there's
no big deal, I know, but I've driven in on Saturdays,
and you just never know. Saturday, this horrible forsake and
city we live in. It can just to do our
(05:59):
traffics that, yeah, okay, you going I want to take
the b que on a Saturday afternoon? Is this the
universal thing? Where I grew up, they would call it
traffic on the threes And then it was like the
it was like three past the hour, and they would
tell you the traffic report. Well there's I've heard traffic
on the nines. Okay, Well that's wrong because it's supposed
(06:21):
to be traffic on the three. Sorry Boston. Okay. So anyway,
it was not bad. It was and we saw our
friends and it was pretty low key and it was
people with kids with a kids. So it was Brandon
Maven hang who are four and two hanging out with
a one year old, a fourteen monthear old, very confident, um,
(06:42):
pretty verbal, Yeah, one year old. There's I don't want
to discount the rest of the hang which is like
people we know and love. But one thing that it
will say makes a huge difference in hang out with
people is having a kid because they just have toys.
The fact that they're you're gonna say like because we
can relate to but they have a baby proof department
(07:05):
with toys in it, and our kids it doesn't matter
what the toys are because our kids have never seen
them before and that's magical and they're out of their
minds exciting. We have to talk about the fact that
this little girl has a ton of toys that we
gave to them because he's younger, and so Brian immediately
picks up a toy and goes daddy, she has the
(07:25):
same toy that I had. I lost this. Yeah. He
kept picking up her toys and being like, I used
to have one of these, but I lost it. And
we were like, well, I don't know what I mean.
I'm so funny that she has all the same ones.
So Bryn really liked playing with her because I think
she's not a threat, like she's one. Well, I have
(07:48):
to say that they're both Leo's. You have to say that.
I have to say that. I have to say that
they both using Leo energy. They both they're lighting up attention.
She sees him being a little louder than everyone else
in the room, and she's like, that's a cool choice
to make it because I'm a Leo. Her dad is
(08:10):
my comedy partner, and we're on the same wavelength. Sure, sure, sure,
sure you're responsible for this, but I'm saying that, I'm
saying it's not Leo, it's me, her birth circumstances and Leo. Anyway.
In contrast, Maven was I think very much threatened by
her presence and was not willing to play nicely. Yeah,
(08:32):
I mean, Mayven's just skeptical, and I get that about her.
She's just she's not easily one over. She's still, you know,
weighing the pros and cons, and she's not like all
she's seen of this girl is that she's a one
year old who doesn't know how to say any words
and who tries to take toys. And Maven's like, I
nobody talk to me. There are so many toys here
(08:55):
I have to get through, and if you talk to me,
I'm not going to get through all of them. Maven
was like, there's a brand Cheetos happening here, and there's toys,
and I'm not just going to give that up for anyone,
but not Brand. Brand was confident in his in his
placement in the hierarchy dog in Heaven because there was toys,
(09:16):
there was people he knows, and he was talking about
this in advance because I told him we're going to
see Nick. And he's also referenced Nick offhand, who is
your comedy partner, But he said he says Saturday nights
at the Magnet Theater, Bryn always describes Nick is funny,
and I literally brought up another kid at day Karen
or pre school and asked if he was funny, and
Brin said, no, Nick is funny. Nick is the only
(09:40):
person in the world was funny. That's nick thing, not
anyone else's. So Bryn was in heaven and he was
like basking and the attention and everything that was happening
and the jokes and like at some point he was
eating a quarter piece of a bagel and he walked
into their bathroom and I walked by and he was
just inning around with his eyes closed, smiling like he
(10:02):
was just like I would not want to be anywhere
else in the universe. This is to bring in full circle.
This is very much in line with Brinn saying I
love a good grape. He loves to take food now
and he'll put his chin up into the sky and
then he'll bring the food down to his mouth and
he'll take close his eyes, take a bite and go delicious.
(10:27):
We made dinner tonight and Maven said to me, Daddy,
this is the most delicious ever in the world. Wow. Well,
Brynn came in the better and last night when you
were putting them to bed, and he said, I'm going
to kiss mommy good night and then he came in
and kissed me and then he shut the door and said,
have a good sleep. He's like a grandpa already. Yeah.
(10:52):
The last thing I will say, um Maven, I've realized
doesn't know her numbers. And brand knew all of his
letters in his numbers so much earlier because he was
the oldest child, because you gave him NonStop number coaching. Yeah,
and he loves it, but loves math. Now Here's what's
interesting about this is that maybe the other night I
(11:15):
was reading her or no, it's like afternoons, I was
putting her down for a nap and reading to her alone,
and she was like she wanted to read the numbers book.
She got excited about it. And then like this is
like what's classically different between Brin and Maven is like
Brin when you were coaching him on numbers, he was
just swept up in the attention and trying to give
you a show. And Mayven there was like a look
(11:36):
in her eyes where she was like I need to
learn these numbers. Like she was you could feel like
a weight of responsibility because she was going through them.
And then like, as you have said before, she doesn't
really know with certainty passed the number six, seven, eight nine.
I think we cracked it tonight. But they've been difficult.
She's getting better, but she like she would get past
(11:58):
six and you would show her number and asked her
what it was, and she would like quietly whispered because
she knew she was wrong, and she would go for
just like really quiet, and she's just she's she's just
a hundred percent aware of like where she's measuring at
(12:22):
at this moment, and she's like looking forward and how
much work there is to be done, and she's really
feeling it. Whereas Brin would just like shout out numbers,
maybe get them right or Thursday, she didn't care, and
she's she knows, I think you're projecting a little bit,
(12:42):
but I think there are that I'm projecting a little bit,
But I there is a way that she's studying or
she's like she was like trying to get me to
coach her the way you didn't. She clearly was thinking
about the way that you were going to coach her
on this coming up, and she's like, I gotta do
better coaching. By the way, I realized she has memorized
the mistakes from the book because we did the same way.
(13:03):
So tonight we got out the squashy numbers and I
think she cracked it. She enjoyed that, like having it
in her hand. I have to recommend this to everybody
in terms of like learning letters and numbers. We have
these little foam like tub numbers and letters and just
putting them in their hands, it's a tangible thing. I
think they memorize with more parts of their brain. Sometimes
(13:23):
there's like dupilic kids and then they understand that like
the there's a blue aid and a yellow aid and
like eight does not mean like the blue thing. You
know what I mean? Um so um, now she knows
her numbers. She's very smart. This next segment is called
we Don't Know, We don't Know Doesn't where we share
(13:46):
a parenting moment that really illustrated that we don't know
what we're doing. Okay, so you know how we love
our kids and like in some way we're like, we
don't know, don't do wrong, But in other ways we're
what did he do? I think in general we're like,
our kids are great, We're fine. I didn't do anything,
(14:09):
but so I went too. Yeah, I went to daycare.
I went to go pick up our kids, and the
head of daycare, Um, it's like, can we have a
check in about Brin and Um, he's listening and just
saying that I knew instantly, Oh that's super stubborn streak
(14:32):
and like angry, selfish child that like we haven't really
fully dealt with who I just assumed like was not
a problem at daycare and it was only at home.
All the problems we've been putting off with our child.
That's he's that kid all the time, and I don't
he's not with them as much as with us, I think,
(14:53):
but he's I don't. I don't know. Well, so I
was like, okay, sure, and then a suddenly I'm like,
there's been a lot of problems and only now they're
telling us, Um, so Bryn will if he doesn't get
his way. He's four right now, and he is real stubborn,
(15:14):
real quick, and he'll say no, no, no, and he'll
run away, and once he calms down, you can have
a really reasonable conversation with it. But but this one
was basically like I'd like to meet and phrase it
well where she's like, so you can help us help him? Yeah,
she it's like weird news because she's right, our son
(15:37):
is uh not receptive to criticism. He's a four year
old and he's really ah, he's just like really in
his own head in a way that I would also
describe you as well. He's a combination of us, which
is he's in his own head and he lives a
moment to moment. But also if you say to him
(15:58):
like no, he he gets like he like doubles down,
and if he feels manipulated at all, like you, suddenly
it's like I will not be manipulated, and that combo
of the two us. Yeah, but like not being able
to like listen or appreciate like the greater good or
the rationalization of direction is more you. Yeah. Well, I've
(16:24):
been thinking all week like Okay, we're gonna talk and
we're gonna have a meeting on Friday, and uh, I
have to I think she sees me as as like
I've figured him out because I'm with him more, and
so I'm like, what am going to take here? Very
funny in in terms of you dropping them off and
then probably assuming that you're the more responsible parent. No,
(16:47):
I think they I think they know I have more
routines with them, which is true. Uh So I'm like,
what am I going to say? I have to feel like,
how do I communicate with to them? Like how I
deal heading off Brand's blow ups? Uh So that's that's
one thing. But before that happened, I came home and
(17:09):
I talked to Brand and I was like, Brand, you
know your teacher told me that, um, you've been having
some trouble listening. And I saw him freeze and he
looked at me in the way that instantly it was
as if a whole world of his I suddenly exposed. Yeah,
(17:30):
he's really become very aware in moments like this recently.
Or it's similar to when he's asking me to go
to Smash Burger or Cherry Tree and then I say, hey, um,
do you remember the last time we went there and
you were a total nut and I you were trying
to run out of the restaurant. And then he's like, um, well, um,
(17:54):
this time I will be good. Like He's like, yeah,
I mean in the good there's a lot of it's good. Yeah,
He's just I think he really is starting to be
able to understand I think time and time that things
have happened before. Understands like we remember things that happened
in the past, and he's starting to like reconcile with that. Yeah,
(18:15):
well so we I had this conversation with him when
I what I did not want to do was go like, Britain,
you were in trouble. I'm mad at you, because I
think the biggest tactic with Britton is like if you
show him that you are upset, then he's paying attention
to the wrong thing. Yeah, if you draw a line
in the sand, he's like, I'm winning this battle, like
(18:36):
he it's not a line in the sand, it's it's
a it's an emotion. When it feels personal. If I
come like I remain common, it's a matter of fact.
I can. I can give him boundaries and ultimatums and
they're very successful. But it's when I'm tired and I'm
like impulsive that I'm like what and I show him
(18:57):
that like aggressiveness, that it's like it's over. But that's
also why I think like sort of overstating the consequences
backfires because you're like sort of like I'm a bad
guy and I want to do all these bad things
to you, and then he sort of like just goes
into this reflective mode of like, yeah, so I've had
a lot of success this week. I've been thinking about
(19:18):
a lot. And so when he had a little meltdown
moment over whatever, you know, I'm like, Okay, it sounds
like you need just some alone time, alone time. He's
like no. So I take him in his room and
he like cries and pouts, and when I go back
in there, I went and I was like I started.
I tried to go backwards in time with him, and
(19:39):
I sit down and calmed down. I get close to
him and I just connect with it with him where
he is in that moment, and I say, do you
feel pretty upset right now? He goes yeah. I'm like, yeah,
I know, why are you feeling sad right now? And
he's like, because you said I couldn't do this thing?
And I go, yeah, do you know why I did that?
He goes no, Like do you remember when you threw
(20:01):
that bowl? Yeah? I mean sometimes you have to restart
like the same step of this conversation like ten times
and be like, yes, how are you feeling? Are you?
How are you feeling? How are you? Like it's just
like take a breath and look into my eye, like
you have to wait, you have to give him space
until he's calm, and then you walk him back through it.
(20:22):
And I had a really successful day with him. He's like, oh, okay,
So anyway, so today I was like, you need to
listen to your teachers. Let's I don't say you need
to listen to teachers. I was like, it sounds like
something we should work on. I know. So when they
tell you to do something, here's why. And then today
he comes home and he remembers this because I was
in the kitchen and he goes Daddy, and I could
(20:44):
tell he's excited to tell me something, and he goes,
I didn't listen at daycare and pre kay, Well, it's
funny because I think they're also talking to him. I
think it at preschool about sort of like controlling your
emotions and like taking breaths and stuff like that, which
I think it's really helpful to have that conversation happening
(21:04):
in multiple places where he can kind of be like, oh,
this is the thing, and not just like one person
trying to stop me. Yeah. And I think this is
where where our meeting with daycare could be really productive,
is if we're like, let's get in the same cage
the same page about vocabulary, and he'll hear him both
was but so so I go, you weren't listening huh?
And I tried to not do the like what you're
(21:26):
in trouble? And I was like tell him, um um,
well what happened? And then he's like, oh, I got
put in the kitchen, which is where like the timeout
zone is at daycare. And I was like, well, why
did you get put in the kitchen? He goes, because
I was, I wasn't behaving. Well. I was like, oh,
so you weren't listening and he goes yeah ah, and
(21:49):
like well what did you do? And then I see
him like really puzzle it through and he's like, m hmmm,
I don't remember. And I was like, well, what about
a pre k And he remembers the punishment, He remembers
why the teacher is mad because he's like not behaving
like bad behavior, And I was like, well, what did
(22:11):
they did they say you couldn't? Did they say no?
Were you being dangerous? And he's like I don't remember.
And I really believed him. It sounds so much like
you when I get mad at you and you're sort
of like backtracking hours after the fact after you've thrown
a huge fit about how I'm wrong, and then I'm like,
do you understand when I was mad about? And you're like, oh,
(22:33):
that's what you're mad about. You're like, I didn't stop
to listen to what you're mad about. I was just reaching.
I have learned this. You gotta admit right now, that's
the first thing I try to do is backtrack unless
I'm too emotional, and then I know I can't. I'll
do it later. But it's also there's this there's this
dead air between the thing that makes you mad because
you won't say it, then you'll stew on it and
(22:55):
it will explode about something else later. And I'm visibly
mad and you're ignoring it. But okay, let you think
so you are, so let's not get into it. You
we're both doing a lot better. No, I know this
about me, but yeah, this is the game that men
get to pretend like they don't see things. And you
(23:15):
know you that you like perfectly happy but just want
to watch TV looks the same as you want to
kill me a lot of the time. And then why
are you skittish and making distraction moves away from because
I'm always I always assume you're mad at me. Let's
(23:36):
unpack that later. But so Britan is, uh, he knows
the pieces now and this is clearly and yes, you're right,
this is the same problem with me. But it's it's
tracing it back, and I'm like, oh, let's this is
my tactic from now on when something happens is to
(23:56):
let him calm down, get down to his level, be
on his team, ask him about the moment he's in,
and then trace it back, and then keep tracing it
back until he can connect behavior with consequences every time.
Is this a good idea? I'm asking you America or
(24:17):
the world or wherever you are. I don't think it's bad.
I just yeah, that's another part of me. He's like,
whatever he's for, it'll be fine. It's just like hard
to um, it's hard to describe issues like this and
like prescribe solutions when I think, if you don't have
a kid like this who's like pushing the boundaries. And
(24:40):
I know all kids are to some extent, but if
you don't have a kid who does it at a
certain level, you don't really understand the problem. Whether people
are dealing with like I know someone currently in my
mom group who her son is. He's just like not
sleeping during the night. He's they have they're trying to
figure out some sort of like undiagnosed sleep issue. So
(25:01):
she she put her Apple Watch on him and tracked
his sleep patterns for the night and realized he was
not getting like any consecutive hours of sleep. And it
just is explaining so many of his behavioral issues, which
are not huge, but it's like it's maybe a small
step above. Brand is just like him sort of like
trying to make his friends laugh at school and like
dancing and like doing things that feel a little bit dangerous.
(25:22):
But he's just you know, he's like a four year
old and and like you, I don't know, it just
takes time to sort of like unravel things when you
have a kid. All kids have different issues, and like
they're not gonna I'll respond, Well, I also think that
(25:43):
like both of them, I think we were both very
good kids, like well behaved, we wanted to follow the rules. Yeah,
and I think this is also a bit of middle
two middle children trying to raise an oldest child. Yeah,
but I all to have to say it's because he's
Leo okay, and the conversations over. No, I want to
(26:07):
say one more thing. Actually, we were just in bed
just now having a very adorable um We're reading Where's Waldo?
All week and the classic novel, the classic story Where
is Mr Waldo? Um? And I was like talking about
behavior something and it came up and I asked bratty
questions and he told me, and he goes, I like
(26:30):
to play with Maven at school and somebody, another boy
wanted to play with Maven, but I didn't want him
to play with Maven. Only I can play with Maven.
And I was like, what about your other friend? You
like playing with him? And he goes, not as much
as mavens of it, like, and I was like, oh,
(26:51):
that's really sweet about his sister. And then I explained
to him that it's just it's I explained the concept
of being selfish, and I'm like, I think it's because
you don't want other people to have things that you
think are yours, and it's good to share. You can
try to all play together. And he goes, but I
only want to play with Maybe, And it was a
(27:13):
very difficult concept for him to be like, um, let's
think about other people's feelings. He's probably also trying to
control may even in that moment. And I said, maybe,
do you love playing with Brandy? And she goes, no,
She's really trying to keep up with the big kids.
A take here. I noticed in the like two seconds
when I went to pick them up, and Brynn was
(27:34):
running close to the street. And this is probably the
incident that triggered her take care provider to schedule this
meeting with us. But she was like trying to keep
up with them, and like bryn was like knocking her
down and she's crying and like she like I also
told last week the story of her trying to go
potty in front of Brind's friend. She's just like she
(27:55):
clearly just like every all the younger kids a day here,
just like lurre out in her field division, and she's
like focused in on the bigger cool kids like her
brother and her friend, her brother's friend, and she's just like,
I gotta be like that. I did. There is a
new girl at daycare that Brent says is the same
(28:16):
size as Maven, And I asked Mayven who her best
friend was, and she said, this girl's name and it's
the first time she's mentioned someone to be her friend.
So maybe it's a new era, I hope. So she
have to say this is This is gonna sound overly concerned,
but she doesn't have strong female friendships. This might be
the beginning. And when we're hanging out with our friends
(28:37):
this weekend and their little one year old daughter, Maven
was not cool. You are a threat to me. She
is not mature enough to handle female friends. This next
segment is called did you Knows? This is where we
positive hypothetical parenting problems to each other. What do you know?
(29:01):
What this segment is? That's that's what you knows. I
don't have a screen in front of me like you do.
We've done twenty four episodes. This is did you know?
You boxed me in with this insane looking microphone stand.
There's no room for a computer here. I'm flying by
the seat of my pants. I'm just trying to make
this my phone. I got my phone in here. It's
very bright. Um. Did you knows? Um? This is where
(29:25):
we learn a fun fact and share it. Maybe we'll
do would you know us? Later? This next segment is
called did you Know? This is where we share a
fun parenting related fact. All right, I read this in
New York magazine. So this was about a study that
was done u regarding praise and how it affects children
(29:49):
and their work ethic and the sense of themselves. Uh.
So this study and studied the effect of praise on
students in a dozen New York schools. Uh. It was
a series of experiments on four hundred fifth graders and
it paints a picture that's very interesting. So the researchers
would take a single child out of the classroom for
(30:11):
a non verbal i Q test consisting of a series
of puzzles. Puzzles easy enough that all the children would
do fairly well. Once the children finished the test, the
researchers told each student his or her score, then gave
them a single line of praise, randomly divided into groups.
Some were praised for their intelligence. They were told, you
(30:34):
must be smart at this. Other students were praised for
their effort, you must have worked really hard. Then the
students were given a choice of test for the second round.
One choice was a test that would be more difficult
than the first, but the researchers told the kids that
they'd learn a lot from attempting the puzzles. The other
(30:54):
choice was an easy test. Just like the first, of
those praised for their effort chose the harder set of puzzles.
Of those praised for their intelligence, a majority chose the
easy test. The quote unquote smart kids took the cop out.
Why did this happen? This quote? When we praise children
(31:15):
for their intelligence, we tell them that this is the
name of the game. Look smart, don't risk making mistakes.
And that's what the fifth graders had done. They've chosen
to look smart and avoid the risk of being embarrassed.
In a subsequent ground none of the fifth graders had
a choice. The test was difficult, designed for kids two
years ahead of their grade level. Predictably, everyone failed. But again,
(31:37):
the two groups of children, divided at random at the
studies start, responded differently. Those praised for their effort on
the first test assumed they simply hadn't focused hard enough
on this test. They got very involved, willing to try
every solution to the puzzle. Many of them remarked, unprovoked,
this is my favorite test. Not so those praise for
(31:57):
their smarts. They assured they assume to their failure was
evidence that they really weren't smart. At all. Just watching them,
you could see the strain. They were sweating and miserable,
and finally, having artificially induced a round of failure, the
researchers then gave all the fifth gators a final round
of tests that were engineered to be as easy as
the first round. Those who had been praised for their
(32:20):
efforts significantly approved on their first score by about those
who've been told they were smart did worse than they
had at the beginning. About fascinating, there's um I want
to say, it's a ted talk about this sort of
thing where it's like talking about having a growth model
(32:40):
for education versus this sort of like other model. I
guess it's sort of it's the same. It's essentially the
same results as this study, which is just like, have
kids focus on the fact that they can always learn
more and do better instead of trying to like label
them as smart or good or bad or whatever. And
it's like it's so true. It's just like you, I
(33:04):
don't know, you you do get labeled as the smart
kids or the dumb kids, and then you're sort of
like risk averse. Yeah, boy, there, because I'm thinking back
two being in school and I did not see myself
(33:26):
as I thought of myself as smart, but I didn't
see myself as a great student. And I couldn't freaking
read or spell until yesterday. But you were given, I
think a lot of encouragement in terms of like putting
yourself out there even though you were like the dumb
kid who couldn't read, even though I was the dumb
(33:51):
kid who couldn't read. You're I mean, I'm not going
to pass forwards. You were the dumb kids, but I
was not. I was not a good student until I
was a fine student until until the middle of high school.
And I remember I got I was I didn't perfectly fine.
And then I remember getting an A in chemistry, which
(34:13):
was supposed to be the super hard class that no
one got an A end, and I had worked really hard,
and I remember You're like, oh matter, Yeah, you'd been
like you worked really hard, and like that's not part
of my identity is that I dig into this and
like I did really well on that, and I'm still
proud of it. And it was the thing that I
wasn't naturally great. I wonder like now, like the thing
(34:37):
I'm supposed to be great at our probably are things
I worry I'm not taking risks with Yeah, I feel so.
When I was in middle school in fifth grade, which
is really young, they had us take tests. If you're
in school in fifth grade, yeah, they had a stake
test to apply to be part of the A T program,
which stood for Advanced something, and it was like you
(34:57):
would leave your classroom to go do these sort of
like specialized smarter supposedly classes like creative learning stuff, and
there was maybe like four different subjects you can try
to test into and they would be like something math, science,
eas something like creative writing, something leadership based. I don't
(35:19):
remember them all, but I know I didn't place into
the leadership one because it kept asking you questions of
like are you comfortable, you know, speaking up and telling
people what you know like leadership skills. And it's like,
as much as I am grateful for the classes I
got into and how that sort of like encouraged me
to think outside the box, it's like really somewhat upsetting
(35:42):
that me and so many other kids who didn't even
probably take this test because they didn't want to come
after school to take some random tests, or their parents
didn't know about it or whatever. Like the leadership one
is like a skill, like I honestly I feel like
I've tapped into a lot as an adult, but like
reluctantly so. And I'm it's weird that from a young
age I was sort of like, well, I'm not cut
out for that because i didn't do well on this
(36:05):
test and I'm not in that class, you know what
I mean. I mean that was the stuff that that
is what I saw about myself, Like, well, I can
always tell people what to do leaderships up. Well, I'm
realizing as I get older, because I went to a
private school. Uh, and it was small and a huge
benefit that that I'm only aware of now is that
there was none of that Like it was so there
(36:30):
was this air of like all of these classes. The
school has a great reputation. Everything is hard and there's
very little like testing into groups. There was far less
categorization than a lot of but like, essentially the school
is a categories yes, And I see where it affects
me in terms of how I viewed myself, uh, in
(36:52):
compared to everyone else outside of that, And that's something
I think that I've had to think about and like, uh,
real lies, like how I am spoiled blah blah blah.
But within that community, within that learning environment, there was
so little categorization because the school is so small, everyone
did all all the different extracurriculars and like within classes
(37:15):
there was very little like testing into things and um
like because all these worries you're talking about are totally
foreign to me. And I think that was good for
my sense of I can do anything I want and uh,
if I work hard, maybe yeah, I don't know. It's
(37:36):
very complicated. It's like, um, you, I don't it's hard
to say you don't necessarily want everyone on the same
track because people are coming to things with different skills.
But it's I think the current system and it seems
to be still operating somewhat similar to this is like
(37:56):
you get locked in at certain points and there's not
a lot of room to like move out of that.
And there's like especially like I don't know what we
now know about like kids development and stuff, and like
so many different factors of like what could be affecting
them in a given year based on like their mental
(38:16):
health or their life circumstances, or their economic circumstances, like
so many reasons they could like not be putting their
best foot forward on a certain six month period when
they're being tested for something. It's like it's just a
lot to put on a kid that's like defining their future.
But I think it for all humans, not just kids,
but you know, especially kids that uh, you know. I
(38:41):
think the American school system one of the good things
about it is it is more of a like learn
a bit of everything until you really figure out what
you want to do. And even in college, like you know,
where's like in England, you get on a like your
specific tract like much earlier. Yeah, but it's not like
and I think the point is, even if like kids
(39:03):
are our kids age, attaching education to a sense of play,
to a sense of their own curiosity and discovery in
any way you can is the best possible way to
set them up for actually absorbing information. And as soon
as you like standardize things in this way and categorize
a kid as good or bad at a thing, suddenly
(39:26):
that's how they see themselves. But like, I think what
part of we have to understand is like, Okay, the
American system is in some ways better than a lot
of countries. It's also behind a lot of developed countries
it's and the system is like has arisen out of
this need to like create docile factory workers, like people
who can take commands and follow directions and like work
(39:48):
in offices and do the jobs that we as a
society think are good jobs and necessary. And so yeah,
some good skills come out of that, but then there's
a lot of other stuff that's lacking. And like, our
system is kind of insane in the sense that like
how low it prioritizes foreign languages, and like how it
doesn't teach kids how to understand nutrition or reproduction or
(40:13):
how to cook a meal, you know, like how to
how to do their taxes. Like, there's a lot of
practical skills that it's kind of insane that in uh,
what is it, thirteen years of schooling, twelve years of schooling,
the kids don't learn these incredibly practical skills, but they
do are forced to memorize like state capitals and like
(40:36):
state state capital of Illinois. Hell, it's not a system
designed for the public good. I mean, it's also wildly
different all over the country and depending well. And it's
also controlled now by textbook companies which are controlled by
(40:57):
by politicians. Politicians, Oh, let's get into it anyway. I
am trying to with our children. UM, be aware of
that because I'm like, I'm quick to praise, but I
want to be praising where I can the effort. Um uh.
(41:17):
I mean if if they do something really cool, I'm
going to celebrate it and be like, I love this
picture you drew, like you learned your numbers yea. Um.
But I'm always going for the next thing too. And
I think Brin really connects, like with math, and he
learned something. I'm like, you want to learn about multiplication,
and he's I'll follow it as long as he is interested.
(41:39):
And I think that balance of being excited about their
discovery and encouraging the next thing without it being this
isn't good enough, you need to go further. This is great?
What else? And that's like generally the story parts model,
which is like kid writes a story and you're adding feedback.
(42:00):
It is that like wow, like it's so great that
you did this. This is something really cool that you did.
I wonder what else you could do here? Keep going.
And it's like a weird balance because like our preschool
asked us this questionnaire of like what brand's strengths and
weaknesses are and what he responds to, and we were
talking about how he really responds to attention, and they clearly,
(42:22):
I think, tried to tap into that right away because
they made him like line leader and calendar leader, and
they're he loves demonstrating for the class like how to
do things, so they really got on his good side
and sort of like made him a proactive member of
the classroom, which I think is great. But then on
the other hand, I think, similar to what our daycare
(42:45):
instructor Runner is trying to say, it's like he also
needs to understand just like basic rules and not like
always be catered to you, just you don't get your way,
you don't always get what you want, and that's a
really hard lesson. Are all kids, but especially one that
thinks he's as wonderful as Brin does. This next segment
(43:10):
is called Listeners Want to Know is This is where
we take some questions and thoughts from our listeners. All right,
I got one email from Chris and Sarah from Wisconsin.
I grew up on two different sides of Wisconsin, in
Chicago in Minneapolis. Fun fact. Alright, Hi, Beth and Peter,
(43:33):
my wife and I love the podcast we started listening
after finding out my wife was pregnant. We are now
first time parents, and she gave birth to twins five
weeks ago. Oh my god, I can't even imagine. We've
been trying to get out of the house with them
at least once a day to get them used to
traveling with us, figuring out the routine. I've also gone
(43:56):
out by myself a few times and would take one
of our kids with me to make get easier on
my wife in case a double meltdown happened while I
was away. Now, at worst, either of us only had
to deal with one kid. And here comes my question.
While I was out a couple of times, I struggled
with doing the right thing. What is the socially acceptable
(44:17):
amount of time to leave your kid in the car alone?
Is there a number? Even We live in Wisconsin, so
the weather is in the sixties during the day. Right now,
I stopped to get gas and went to get a coffee.
I knew it would be quick, so I was going
to leave baby in the car. But I didn't want
anyone to judge me for leaving a child unattended, so
I popped out the car seat and took him into
(44:40):
the gas station with me for that quick coffee purchase. Um,
I don't know if it's him. I translated the name
to a pronoun and I made an assumption, so I'm
just gonna say them. Um. The same thing happened again
while wanting to go into a sub show up and
get some lunch. I knew that would take a little
(45:04):
more time, but still I had fear that someone may
see the kids and freak out, not knowing how long
they were in the car. If the weather is not
too hot nor too cold, and if the time is
less than five ten minutes, is it okay to leave
them locked in your car for that time? Love? Christ
and Sara, I added the love. They didn't say love. UM,
So this is like I think I read an article
(45:25):
about this a while ago, but I wish I remember
the title or what it was. But like the I
don't think there's a common, um clear rule of law
on this, and it probably varies state to state, and
a lot of it is determined by the judgment of
the police officer or anyone who's involved. In terms of
you leaving your kin your car, I don't know if
you're asking about safety or law. But I'm gonna answer
(45:47):
the law part first, which is just that I think
that's the main concern because you know, your kids probably
fine for five minutes inside the car while you get
a cup of coffee, and you probably can see the
car from where you're standing, but that and you have
to have them what if someone sees me? What if
someone gets mad? What if the police are? You know?
And that's the scarier part I think in this instance.
(46:08):
But I'll say I support you living that kid in
the car so you can go get a coffee. However,
it's not up to your decision because there are a
bunch of people that are now so sensitive to that
that they're going to call the police. And is that
worth it? No? And I think that's pretty bullshit, but
(46:29):
you have to do Unfortunately, like the big thing you
really have to consider with stuff like this is what
is the color of your skin? Because if you're a
white woman, it's so much easier to talk yourself out
of this type of situation with a police officer. Well,
in this case, we don't you know what I'm I
don't I don't know what the race of these people are,
(46:49):
but they're they're picturing white Wisconsiners. I'm imagining white Wisconsin
is also imagining if they were not white, they would
not be asking this question because they're probably just airing
on the side of caution where they know the level
of risk they're taking. Um. But it's just like it's
so different if you're not white. Well, I recently read,
(47:10):
because this happened in my hometown suburb of Chicago, that
someone let their eight year old daughter walk the dog
around the block and in the half block that the
mother couldn't see the daughter, somebody called the police honor
and like child Protective Services had to come, and like,
this is the town I grew up in. I walked
(47:31):
to school, and I walked home for lunch and back
to school starting in kindergarten, because that's what everyone did,
and that like I remember we a few years ago
and Christmas time, we were all there and we're doing
a neighborhood game of frisbee golf through the whole town
and the police pulled up and like what are you doing,
(47:54):
Like we're playing frisbee golf, Like, oh, that's fine, And
then later someone called the police on us. And this
is an event that my family has been doing for
forty years, and I'm like, what has changed where suddenly
someone like stopping in front of your house to pick
up a frisbee. He's like, call the police. Yeah, well,
I mean that all of these events too. I think
what you have to fathom is not just like the
(48:16):
judgments people will make about you in the moment that
the police show up, but then in the event that
Child Protective Services is sort of like putting you on watch.
What are the types of judgments they're going to make
about you in the coming months if they're like checking
up on you, and what's like because that's like, even
if you're a squeaky clean person and you're white and
(48:37):
all the biases are in favor of you, that's a
stressful situation to be put under, is knowing you're being
watched for your fitness as a parent. And I think
this came up in my mom group recently because we're
talking about if people are testing positive for marijuana when
they deliver their babies, which is sometimes a test they
will run, which again is much more common if you're
(48:58):
not white, And then you have to sort of like
make this people have to make these judgments of like Okay,
well maybe my pregnancy is making me feel super nauseous,
and I'd like to be able to keep food down
so that my kid can get food, and maybe smoking
pot would help me with that. But then I can't
necessarily fathom like the cost of the anxiety of doing
(49:22):
that thing, because if I have marijuana in my system
when I deliver this baby in several months and they
do decide to test me for that, then will I
be able to handle like the anxiety of having a
newborn baby and all the stress that that entails. Well,
also not knowing if someone's going to take my baby first,
even just feeling judged for it. I mean when Brin
(49:42):
was an infant, like you, when you had him in
a carrier case and you tripped on the sidewalk and
like he hit his head, yeah, and you went to
the emergency room and they had to have and it's
just like a low stakes version of it. They had
to have a social services person come and like talk
to us to make sure that we weren't neglectful parents.
And it's scary even not you're not being neglectful, right,
(50:06):
it's very scary. And I mean they luckily the Social
Services parents person who is um watching us have a
conversation with our doctor. She's sort of like quietly observing
from the corner of the room, and she was like
watching how we interacted with our kid. She came over
afterwards and she was like pretty nice and she was like, Oh,
(50:30):
don't worry. When I had my baby, she fell off
the bed three times, and I was like three times.
That was like a real wake up call to me
of like how accidents happened. In her defense, our kids
since then have fallen off the bed at least three times.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But this was when I had
(50:50):
like a new born. He was like a month old,
and it was really scary. It wasn't really scary. What
happened was I was carrying him in like a baby born.
We had literally moved to our apartment weeks prior, so
I wasn't familiar with the environment. I walked out the
front door and I didn't really understand where the curb
was aligned, and I stepped off the curb, not being
able to see down because I had a baby drawn on,
and I uh sort of like misstepped and fell and
(51:15):
tripped forward, and then Bryn's head hit the pavement and
technically you cracked a skull technically, but a hairline fracture
on his skull, which left me mortified, and it was
a really traumatic night. That was the same month where
the doctor was like, he's got a weird heartbeat, you
gotta take him. He also had a sort of a
jaundice situation. He had the high Billy Rubin levels, so
(51:36):
we had to go get his But once we found
out his body, his blood and his heart and his
brain were okay, we stopped worrying for the rest. Pretty
stressful first month of having your firstborn. So Chris Sarah,
it's fine to leave in the car, but don't because
other people I think you can judgment aren't worth it.
(51:57):
I think you just have to be aware of your
surroundings and like you have to know. Unfortunately, you do
have to do a calculation about where am I, what's
clear of my skin, what's happening. Yeah, just don't let him,
just don't let him, Just keep him in your eyesight.
There's no right answer, we promise. It's it's one of
you not call the police. It's one of those situations
are probably just a bigger weight off your mind to
(52:19):
carry the kid into the store with you. Unfortunately, and
get some sleep when you can. You guys, your heroes,
get some rest. This has been another episode if We
Knows Parenting. If you can go to our website we
Knows Parenting dot com, where you can find some merch.
(52:41):
We have a new T shirt with a baby that
says you sucked up because that's what it feels like
to be a parent sometimes. Yeah, and it's a reference
to earlier episode where brind told me that I fucked
up by turning off the TV on him. Yeah, I
mean his defense. You really, I don't know. If you
can also, please check us out on iTunes, review at
(53:03):
your podcast, rate, review, and subscribe Apple podcasts. They don't
like it when you call it iTunes. That's where you
buy music Apples podcasts. You can email us in your
questions stories at we knows pod at gmail dot com.
Find us on Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff, Facebook, Facebook,
(53:25):
find o you know, find our personal instagrams if you
want to see how funny our kids have videos coming
at you all the time, so funny. Check out the
story Pirate's new album, Nothing Is Impossible, and please have
a great day. Please by rate and review, Rate and review,
(53:47):
rate and review view
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Hosts And Creators
Beth Newell
Peter McNerney
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