June 12, 2018 • 45 mins
The kids see Peter perform on stage. Peter and Beth disagree about Bryn having a past life, discuss a study finding that chores lead to success in life, their reasons for moving to the suburbs once they had a kid and answer a listener's question about about a reluctant dad.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I got to say hello. Welcome to We Knows Parenting,
the parenting podcast hosted by real life parents. I'm Beth Newell,
I'm Peter McNerney. We are not experts, but we do
(00:22):
have two small children, real life children. This podcast, we
compare notes and try to figure out what we knows
about parenting. Hello, Beth, Hey, how are you pretty good?
We just had a cleaning lady show up, so you're
feeling extra relaxed to me? I mean it makes me
uncomfortable when you talk about it here. You don't like
(00:44):
you don't like the world knowing that we pay a
woman to come twice a month to clean our apartment. Yeah,
I feel like it ruins my street credits, like being
a real person who understands real problems. You're not you're spoiled.
I am now feel You're not spoiled. You earned this.
It's not like that was. This was a not a
(01:05):
simple choice to hire somebody because you're spending some money.
It's not a ton of money, but there is something
incredibly indulgent about it. How does that make you feel?
Like I just described, I feel very happy to have
it and very uncomfortable to have people know that I
have it. Well, you're on a podcast now, so now
you have to be honest with the whole world. Um yeah,
(01:28):
it's uh, we're having a better week this week. We Uh,
no one was on a sound no one was really sick.
Was this a full week? This was a full week
of no one having to stay home sick. We did
it with an incredible victory. Oh my gosh. So the
big thing this week for me. Last Saturday we had
(01:50):
the story parts. The arts education company that I worked
for had our big New York benefit, and Bren and
Maven came to the show and this is the very
first time that they've ever seen me on stage. And
I gotta say, I think I was pretty good. Yeah,
I think they enjoyed it. I was in terms of
(02:12):
entertaining my children. I was more focused on just like
them getting through the day and like getting into the
city and all those logistics. You did that all in
your own. I was gone, Well, my sister was there
when I got there, but still, um, they did well.
They were It's it's it's always awkward because you're like
(02:33):
driving in the city, finding a parking garage, getting a
double stroller out of the trunk, like putting kids in
stroller while the parking garage guy waits for you to
do that. Then like pushing a double stroller through midtown
New York City and hoping the place we arrive at
has a place for you to put a stroller. So
you're saying, you're you miss living in Brooklyn and you
wish that we'd stay there away, No, not at all.
(02:54):
I also went to our old neighborhood this week, which
was bitter sweet because it was I haven't been there
in years, I think, and it's so much more gentrified
than when we lived there, so which to a certain
degree makes me be like, wow, if we were still here,
we would have this restaurant in this restaurant. But it
also walking to my sister's department, I was like, you know,
(03:16):
I don't miss the late night walk home from the
subway where you have to be on a little bit
on edge and make sure you're safe the whole time. Um,
something I've never thought about, and I would not have
enjoyed dragging two kids around there. You know, It's it's
so incredible to me now because we'd still be there
if I was the only one making that decision. Because
(03:38):
when you're like, I'm having a baby, we need to move.
I was like, what we have time? Like I want
to washer and dryer. I'm like why we're okay? Do
you understand now why we needed a washer and dryer? Yeah,
of course I do. The first week of having so
we moved out of Brooklyn a week before Britain was
born because the it was complicated, took us forever. We're
(04:01):
trying to close on our new place and it was
and we we were supposed to be here like two
months before he was born. One week before he was born,
we move. That's why half of our apartment is painted
because the other half was Bryn was born and we
just stopped painting. And that was three and a half
years ago. But anyways, Story Pirates the show went well.
(04:25):
The kids both sat calmly through most of it. I
think they even got a teeny but Nancy right towards them.
It was a benefit performance. It was like hour and
forty five minutes and then stayed locked in. Compared to
like a regular Story Parts show, which I think would
have been just stories, this had a lot of breaks
to talk about story Pirts and what they do and
like fundraising stuff that is not for kids. So considering that,
(04:46):
I think they did incredible. Um but and then Brian
at the end got to uh push a pie into
someone's face, which is very exciting. My gosh. I was
backstage watching him the whole time. So part of the fundraising,
to make it less uh awkward to ask an audience
for money raising certain amounts, kids come up and get
(05:09):
to throw pies into adults faces. So one of my
colleagues found brand brought him up to stage, and he
was terrified and could not have been more intrigued and
excited about what the hell was happening. I was surprised
he was actually so calm about going up on stage.
I think if it hadn't been story parts and he
(05:29):
wasn't so familiar with the story parts podcasts and songs
and you being part of story parts, I think he
would have not wanted to get on stage for like
a random But then he did it. He smashed the
pie into uh some stranger's face and then booked it
off stage. He just ran on stage like he had
done something wrong. He could he knew because he was like,
(05:52):
this is messy, and mommy and Daddy talked about messes
a lot and they're asking me to do it, and
there's a whole room full of people watch and he
did it so delicately and ran away. Well, it's funny
because we have it on tape from our phones, and
it's like I think he was like, this is a
funny idea of someone's telling me to do this. And
then I think when he saw this person's face covered
(06:13):
in whipped cream or shaving cream or whatever, he all
of a sudden was like, what have I done? What
have I done? And he just fled at the stage
and came back to his seat. I had so many
of those moments growing up where I just suddenly found
myself in the middle of something very stupid, and I
was like, what have I done. Remember being in the
(06:34):
car with my mom and I was probably eight and
for the first time really considering the cigarette lighter in
the car and just pushing it in and then it
popped out and I pulled it out. It's all hot,
and then just looked at it, and then I looked
at my mom, who was driving the car, and then
just without thinking, I just put it right down on
(06:55):
the plastic arm rest between the two seats, and then
smoke started coming up. In the middle of the car.
My mom looks and goes, what are you doing? And
that was the moment I snapped out of it. I go, oh,
I don't I don't know, and I was just holding
this thing, and that mark was there for the next
ten years. It's very similar to Brin who woke up
(07:15):
this morning and got ahold of a pen and colored
all over our insurance claimed check. He wrote, he drew
two frowny faces on the insurance claim check. He missed
all the vital information on the check, and I and
the Chase Online app deposit uh didn't seem to have
(07:37):
a problem with the scribbles all over it. He also
drew all over the bathroom door and immediately goes, I
drew on the door like he knew he had done
something wrong, but was also sort of excited about it.
So last night I didn't tell you. I gave them
green smoothies with dinner, and he of course spilled a
huge amount of smoothie all under the table. But it
(07:59):
was like it was like all over him and the
floor and like in his shoe that was on the floor.
And then when I was done cleaning it up, maybe
I walked back in and Maven was like mess, mess,
and she was putting at the wall and it was
also sprayed all up the wall. Um from one spill. Yeah,
I don't know what he did. He just like flying
(08:20):
it all over the place. Um. But I I was glad.
I stayed very calm, and he was like, oh no,
and I was like, it's okay. Just at this point,
just it's amazing how calm you get with your kids
just constantly destroying everything you own. Oh yeah, I think
you you've come a longer way because I was sort
(08:42):
of already comfortable with destruction and uh, you've picked your battles. Well.
We've talked about this is a little bit of a
class issue because if you have less money and things
get destroyed, it's natural to have a extreme reaction. It's true, boy,
thinking about stuff that I've broken growing up, I really
(09:04):
am spoiled because things yet broken. I'd be like, shoot, yeah,
I'll have to get another disc man. And if that
happened in my house, they would never let you live
it down for the rest of your life. Newells never forgets.
(09:25):
Our next segment is called We Knows Wins. This is
where we share some of our parenting wins for the week, Peter,
what's her wind? I have a little one, and it's
so thoroughly satisfying. Brin when he turned to Ever said
terrible twos. Brinin, I don't think it was a terrible too.
I think when he turned three he was a terrible three.
But he's he's coming out of it. I think he
(09:47):
was a terrible too. It's just that the terrible threes
are so much worse than the two, so much more power. Yeah,
so that three to three and a half, he would
say I'm not getting dressed and defight to get him
dressed dressed felt I felt like I was doing something wrong. Well,
he would have like an animalistic rage and his body
(10:08):
would seize up, and it was like and I would
tackle him into his clothes, I'd pin him down and
you'd be like, you're hurting me, and I'm just like,
I've been patient for tournamentutes. I'm gonna put these plants
on your legs. And that's feels terrible that when they're
too they're more distractable. You can kind of like figure
(10:28):
out a solution or just overpower them more easily, and
they haven't learned how to create a scene and with Britain.
You know, when he was that three and he's like, no,
I'm not going to do this thing. You try to
soften up, you try to negotiate, and it's not happening,
and then you just know that it's going to turn
into like a wrestling match to take a thing away
(10:50):
from him, or to put him into a jacket or
what's your today this morning? He a lot of times
he doesn't. He'll have a toy in his hand when
we leave, and I'm like, you can't bring it into
school because it's gonna get lost. It's gonna be a fight.
So I don't let him take stuff into school. So
we get there, it's about to get out, and he's
got the toy in his hand, and I don't ask.
(11:11):
I don't you know. I just say, do you want
to put the toy in your bag or do you
want to leave it in the car? Those are your options.
He goes, I'm taking it into school. I'm like, no,
you can't take it into school. He goes no, And
it was like no, no, no, And it was almost
getting to that point where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna
have to rip it out of his hands and take
him in and he's gonna scream and I'm gonna walk
into daycare with two screaming kids. And then I had
(11:34):
this moment and I said, brand, if you don't give
it to me in five seconds, I'm going to take it.
And you don't like that, right, You'll probably cry. So
I'm going to do that unless you want to give
it to me right now. And the most shocking thing
in the world happened, which he goes okay and he
hands it to me, and I was like what, And
(11:56):
I was like so over. I was so unexpected that
he thought it through, and he remembers that he doesn't
like it when that happens, and he knows that, like
when I forced him to do something, he's gonna scream
and hate it, and so it's just that I'm going
to do that. Let's not bother. He has flipped a
weird switch recently where he suddenly can comprehend consequences because
(12:19):
I've had all of a sudden more success with being
like Britain. If you keep screaming at Maven, I'm going
to turn the TV off. And he's like, okay, yeah,
I don't want to. Like he just he actually stopped
doing something which is just a new phenomenon. And he'll
try to explain things to Maven now and get frustrated
that she doesn't understand. She's like, Maven, if you stop,
(12:41):
you'll get the thing. She's like, no, it's man. Yeah,
it's funny to see with her because she's just starting
to figure out stubbornness and he's finally coming out of it. Yeah, exactly,
she's embracing her terrible twos. Now it's time for a
(13:05):
new segment. We knows differently. Uh, this is where we
discuss something that we clearly disagree on, and Beth has
something that she was not discussed with me, So let's
all find out together. So what I wanted to talk
about is you shot a video of Brand this week
(13:25):
where he said, Um, I used to be bigger like you.
I used to I used to have a beard like you.
And this is something we disagree on, which is that
I believe in past lives and I think that's ridiculous,
and I I would argue in this video he's talking
about past lives. Well, you know what, I knew that
(13:48):
you're going to say that, and I'll be honest that
I almost didn't post it because I knew you would
love it so much, and then I thought, that's petty,
this is funny. I'm gonna post it. It's also cutting
out the build up to it, which is so in it.
He goes, I had a beard when I was your age,
and then I was Mavin's age and I didn't have
a beard, and now I'm my age again. That's what
(14:10):
it appears in the in the video. But boy, that
seems pretty cyclical. You know what, Let's just listen to
the audio and listen to Brand explain his quote unquote
past lives. What are you telling me? How is your age?
You were my age? Yeah? Um um um when I
(14:34):
had a beardy? Like yeah, so you used to be old? Yeah?
What happened? I getting stuck growing? Oh and then you shrunk?
You got small? Yeah? I no, no, no, I didn't glaspell.
I stopped growling and her into her indoc into a
(14:58):
what into it? Got into a dot? Do it? Dot
and dot? What's that? That's right? You can stop growing?
Oh you go? So you used to have a beard, Yeah,
(15:20):
like you you have. I used the same beard, like, oh,
so what happened to your beard? I was miserable age
and now so when you were a mazing's age you
had a beard? Oh you didn't have a beard? Did
(15:43):
you have a beard? No? When did you have a beard?
And then I was mind you dead? Oh so I'm
a little confused about the timeline. At one point you
were my age, and then I was living's age and
now and now I was turning to into my age back.
(16:05):
So how old am I? By forty degrees? Do you
think I'm forty degrees? I think it seems like very
clearly it's it's the circle of life. But before that
(16:29):
we were talking about I said, Briton, you're gonna turn four,
You're gonna grow bigger. And he said, no, I'm going
to stop growing, and he was doing this I don't
want to get older thing. So we were circling around
the language of getting smaller and getting bigger and goes, no,
I want to get smaller. I want to get big
like you. And then it became sort of this word
soup of ideas. And then you saw that a later thing.
(16:50):
But I bet if you saw the whole thing, you'd
still make the same argument you're making that. Okay, well
it's staring true to me. Yeah, I now, do you
want to get into Ah, why why I believe in
this particular instance, or why I believe in general, believe
it at all. I mean, there's a lot of reasons.
(17:14):
Oh boy, yeah, I just let's not get into it.
I just like, that's that's a whole thing. I think
we So this is really interesting about us, which is
I am very much I trust what I see and
I touched, and you know, and uh, I believe there's
a logical explanation for everything. And you are much more intuitive.
(17:37):
You trust how you feel, and that leads you to
being really into believing things. But I would argue that
I didn't used to believe in any of these things.
And I'm basing my belief on experiences I had physical experience. Sure,
I don't doubt that there's reasons for you to believe
what you believe. But what's interesting because I learned a
(17:57):
long time ago, because at the beginning, I was very like,
you know, that's crazy, right, here's why and obviously those
would be pointless fights. And uh now it's like, oh, okay,
I can accept that people process the world differently and
it's good, uh for them, and that I shouldn't what
a waste of time to like try to talk somebody
(18:19):
out of something like that. So we I think we've
developed like I don't touch those things. I certainly don't want.
I don't indulge in it because I don't enjoy it
that much, but I don't criticize it at all. And
so it's a little bit of it, like that's your stuff,
and I don't get too far into it because I
don't want to get into it and then be disrespectful.
(18:42):
But I do feel like I've gotten to the point
where I can have a conversation with you about it
and not let my own constant need to buzz killy.
It's so I mean, it's it's no one wants to
feel wrong, and especially me, and that's been a big
lesson to turn that off. The like I don't need
to be right about this, I can just listen. I
(19:03):
think the thing that's frustrating for me not to get
on too much of a tangent. But I feel like
people who identify as atheists they have this like need
to explain their side of things, which is like I
think aside that more spiritual people are not discounting like
it's not like we have never heard those arguments before,
and the need, like the need to be right about
(19:24):
it not existing is as ridiculous as the need to
be right about what I believe. I'm just saying what
I believe. I'm not arguing that everyone needs to agree
on that as fact. It's it's just the if if
I allow you to believe that, then then this it
makes me feel unstable, like I don't know what I know.
(19:44):
And that's the emotional dumb part of our brains that
can't let disagreements of fact lie, you know, which gets
into today's political culture right now. I think with what
I've not necessarily interesting. In my in my mom Facebook
group is people have posted different stories of their kids
(20:05):
referring to past lives or the kids, their kids making
statements that would imply that they are like the reincarnation
of their grandparents or something like that. And I think
the stories are really interesting and I think there's often
a lot of very strong evidence for it being true,
and I that like, oh, this kid, how could they
possibly know that? For me? Like? Are are we have
(20:29):
these We have these association machines inside of our skull
and our job. Your brain is automatically comparing things to
look for patterns to compare to things we know so
that we can feel safe about our environments. And so
it's that like your brain is automatically going to associate
this data with something you know, and so that like, oh,
that must be this horoscopes astrology is. But I think
(20:53):
you're not You're not listening to the stories. You're not
like reading any of you are right, I'm not giving
it my all attention because I know that I'm going
to be a jerk about it. But I think some
of these stories are like beyond like coincidence. I won't
I know that I won't think so I know that
(21:15):
I will listen and be like, there's a reasonable explanation
for this. The simbulist explanation is probably true, which is
we've got very faulty, easily tricked brains. Let's not get
into it. We're doing it, doing it now. But I
think it's been a great success recently how we can
(21:39):
let these points of view exist and not not let
it destroy it. Yeah, you don't seem agitative at all, Right,
I just fucking hate it because it's just like it's
just you are writing, You're you're you're filling in the blanks.
It has given you not I'm just kidding, um, but
email me if you agree with me. We know spot
at gmail doc and if you don't agree with me,
(22:03):
just you'm not gonna read it. Sends your interesting stories
about your kids reincarnation, or your child seeing spirits or
guides around them, or ones. We want to hear it all,
I don't. I want to hear dads out there who
under not. I want to hear angry dads. I want
(22:24):
to hear angry dads who need the world to know
that they're right. Explain to me how neuroscience works, and
how we are susceptible to the count the idea of
magic to justify our own wanderings of them, Dads who
teach kids about the importance of imagination and then refuse
to have any imagination about the world around them. I
(22:45):
love the way the human mind works. And then we
can trick our dumb brains into believing these fantasy worlds.
I just don't. I just know that they're fake. But
we we do. You know everything? Oh my gosh, I
do regret that language. We know nothing, We knows nothing.
(23:11):
This next segment is called did you Know? This is
a segment where Peter learns and shares a child or
parenting related fact. I got a fact for you. Are
you ready for the fact? Yeah? Lay it on me.
All right. I'm gonna never sing again in the podcast.
That's not true. I'm gonna think a lot, alright. This
fact comes from a source that I didn't write down,
(23:33):
but I'm gonna trust it it's true because I wrote
it down at one point. The longest study of humans
ever conducted, the seventy five year long Harvard Grant Study,
found that professional success in life comes from having done
chores as a kid. Wow, that's very interesting. Do you
(23:55):
feel does that? How does that make you feel? Did
you did chores? What was your chores? Like, Yeah, we
did chores. I think it's really interesting because I was
just talking about this online, which is like, how do
you not kill your kids creative dreams? Well, also giving
them pragmatic information about how to like go after your
(24:19):
dreams with that with still being able to pay rent
and stuff like. You don't want to give them too
much anxiety about those things, but you also want them
to have a sort of realistic expectation of the world.
You don't want to go be a theater major it'll
be easy, right, you want to go be a theater major,
but I know that this is a dangerous decision you're making.
My parents didn't. I was a theater major, and they
(24:42):
were thrilled because I was just I was different than
my brothers anyway, um, because they hated their other sons
and they were so glad I was different. Not really
can I talk? Oh my god, I just got a glare,
like feeling my gut. Sorry, you all had to witness that.
(25:03):
I apologize. Go ahead, Do you have anything else to
say before I go on? It is still cold outside,
and I'm like, where's summer. So here's the thing about chores.
I think we had chores growing up, but it was
very like, you just have to do this. There's no reward.
We're just going to be mad at you if you don't.
(25:24):
And there wasn't really like a system. It was just
sort of like, all of a sudden, everyone to get
worked up about how much needed to be done. Uh,
And I think everyone just would just get worked up,
you know, like your mom starts having a little bit
of a panic attack of the crushing weight of being
(25:45):
a mother of three children and looking at the filthy
mess surrounding her, and then you know, she starts exploding
in everyone and then you like miserably run and do
those chores and everyone's angry, and it was an anxiety system. Yeah,
so I wouldn't necessarily say that's the best system. I think,
(26:06):
you know, like out louding, outlining. I think kids responsibilities
when they're older. Maybe having like more of a clear
expectation so that they can try to calmly meet it
without being whipped into a frenzy would be good. And
I also, I don't I know that this is probably
not like realistic for everyone financially, but like to have
(26:26):
at least a small monetary reward or some sort of
reward so that kids kind of understand the value of
like earning something, I think it is a good lesson
to have going into the workforce. I had to there
was some chore I had to do every Sunday, and
I don't remember what was really little by mo the lawn,
and I hated it. And I would wait till the
(26:48):
last second, till like the sun started going down, and
I had a mode lawn and I get paid and
if I didn't do it, I'd still have to do
the job. But then I would not get paid. Uh.
And it was the regularity and in the winter I
had to like clean them whole basement or something. Uh.
But the regularity of that in retrospect is like, Oh,
(27:11):
that's having a job, you know, that's being dependable and
having a routine is such an important skill. Whereas if
it is I think, if it is more that like, oh,
do this thing is we got to do this right now,
that's a good that's good too to learn to like
take care of I think there really is something to that.
(27:33):
Every Sunday you're taking care of yourself. You're making sure
this happens. Yeah. I think you know, at a certain
age you should be able to make requests of your
children and get their help. I just think the having
at least some routine element of it, I think is
like a nice way to set clear expectations. So when
do we what age do you? Does that start? Because
(27:56):
I can't brand, I can't get Brand to do anything.
Can you pick up your jacket, buddy? Well, I think
now that he's finally starting to understand consequences, we can
do more of that, and there needs to be more
like you can play with this toy after you put
this toy away, putting things away. He can't wrap his
brain around why you would do that. I think he's
starting to understand a little bit because he's like singing
(28:18):
the clean up song the other day, so I think
he's starting to like actually pick up on that. Well,
he loves coming in to the apartment and flinging off
his jacket in a way to make sure it makes
makes certain that the sleeves get pulled inside out. So
do you do it with every single shirt you wear?
(28:40):
Every time you take off a shirt. I think it's
a little dramatic player that you both have for living
your lives. I mean, is there anything more fun than
like flinging off a piece of clothing. I guess it's
fun if you're not the one doing the laundry later. Well,
that's what I do every single time. That's what we
call hyperbole because I most certainly most of the time,
(29:02):
throw all of my clothes into the hamper, not every time.
When we um went we were on vacation with my family,
and my grandmother intercepted a load of our laundry and
started folding it before I could get to it, and
she said that literally every single shirt was turned inside out?
Oh yeah, yeah, Oh I do do that. I don't.
I don't care. That's I don't care if the laundry
(29:25):
comes out of my shirts are inside out. I put
them in the drawer inside out. I'll take care of
it when I need to put it on. I know
that you're not the same way. Compromise. We've reached where
I don't turn your shirts right side out because I'm
not going to do that for you, but I do
it for you. I've turned all of your shirts right
side But how often are they turned inside out? Often
the laundry. Yes, sometimes you throw clothes in there, like
(29:49):
there's a longsleeve shirt that was in the sweatshirt and
you took both of them off together, and so they
wrapped up and they go straight into the laundry. That's well,
I mean, I don't care. But you're the one saying
I don't do that. But I do your clothes exactly
the way you want them. Thank you. I mean it
took me a little while to figure out what that is,
(30:09):
but I care. This next segment is listeners want to
knows where we take some listener questions. All right, we
got some mail, some email, we got a really great question, Beth.
Uh from Aubrey from New Mexico. I'm gonna read her
(30:32):
email right now. Hi, Peter and Beth. I'm an elementary
school teacher, elementary school social worker in New Mexico. I've
quickly become a we know super fan. Thank you blah
blah blah compliments for us. Uh. Here it is My
husband and I are on the fence about having kids.
He says he will have kids because he knows how
(30:54):
important it is to me, and he says I will
be a good mom, which makes him happy. He says
he feels it will be really positive because we are
both in a good place in our lives. However, he
doesn't have much general interest in kids. Nephews, baby cousins,
kids of the store, et cetera. Do not interest him
or make him smile. Ever, I work with kids with
(31:15):
its disabilities all day and still want to hang out
with my nephews and feel a strong desire to have
kids on my own. Peter and Beth, how do you feel?
How did you feel before you had kids? Was there
a sudden or gradual change in your perspective on having
kids or have you both always looked forward to it
sound like good parents. Thank you, and I'm interested to
know my old school family says men are usually not
(31:38):
excited to have kids, but do well once they're here.
And the culture in New Mexico is pretty quote unquote
traditional a k a. A woman's place in the home,
et cetera. The patriarchy is real. Smiley face. I would
love your perspective. Thank you, Aubrey. A lot of great
questions in there. You wanna do you want to first
tackle where what we thought before we had kids, what
(32:01):
our ideas were? Yeah, did we ever talk about it beforehand?
I feel so many ways about this question. I think
the thing about us is that prior to having kids,
I think we both love kids like we I know that.
I if I was like if there's a baby or
like a two year old in the room, I wanted
(32:22):
in on that like I, and I think you also
are like reasonably interested in children. Yeah. I mean I
worked for story Parts. I've worked with kids for fifteen years,
but that's not why I got into it. I saw
a story part show and I thought it was so
joyous and funny. I wanted to compare to the average person,
your one to want interaction with a child is like pretty.
(32:46):
That was also my intro into your family was coming
for a big family gathering, and I was scared of everybody,
so I just hung out with your six year old
cousins entertained them because they were easier to talk to
than adults. Well, I feel really complicated about this because
I think given that we both liked kids a lot
before we had kids, and I I think I had
(33:09):
fairly realistic expectations for having kids because I babysat a
lot before becoming a mom, and we both worked at
a school for six y and we both worked with kids.
And I still think, in spite of all of that,
having a baby is so much harder than anyone could
ever possibly imagine. Uh yeah, well it's just you don't
You don't really understand it until you've done it. And
(33:31):
it's both so much more manageable than you'd think and
so much more horrible than you think, because you just
it's just an abstract concept until it's your day to
day life. And I, in addition to the feeling like
it's like the most insanely hard thing you could ever do,
I also think it's like the most rewarding thing you
(33:52):
could ever do. Oh yeah, so I have so many
things to say about it. But first of all, we
did not We've said this before, we planned either one
of our children. They were both complete accidents because we're
total idiots. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is like you,
assuming you don't hate the idea. I think what I
think makes it a little more palatable for me is
(34:13):
I think we knew at some point we're gonna have kids.
So the fact that their accidents is like, yes, overwhelming.
But did we ever discuss that or do we both
just assume that's what we were in this for. We
discussed having kids, we knew that, Yes, I just don't remember,
but I will say we had a whole song about it.
Oh that's right, um, full disclosure. When we were very young.
(34:38):
Beth was one. I think we got high one night
and sang songs about our future kids. We weren't there
young when saying that song. That's the most intimate that
we just shared with the whole world. But that's not
really true because we were at least a couple of
years into our relationship and that happensise it sounds very creepy. Um. Anyway,
(35:00):
I think I feel so I guess my thing is
that I think that it's very, very possible that um,
she and her husband would have a kid and fall
in love with this kid, and in spite of how
hard and horrible it is at moments, it would be
great and they would love this kid forever. But I
would say, given what she's explained about the culture in
(35:22):
New Mexico and the woman's places in the home and all,
that she should try to set some expectations with her
husband about what his role in this is going to be,
because I think a lot of men, yourself included, kind
of go into this without really thinking through the day
to day management of keeping another person alive. Oh yeah,
(35:43):
my life has changed dramatically in the past three and
a half years, obviously, and it is that you don't realize,
you don't realize what you don't know, and you don't
realize these sort of unconscious assumptions you have about parenting roles.
But it's also just it's household management to like, I mean,
(36:05):
obviously someone has everything, someone has to be paying attention
to the kid seven. But also I think we were
together for a pretty long time before we had kids,
and we lived together for a long time, So there
was a lot of stuff that slowly I accustomed you
to realizing was partly your responsibility, like cleaning up after
yourself and getting groceries. And true, but I still say that,
(36:29):
I uh, my behavior has changed much more dramatically in
the last three years than it did in the previous seven. Yes,
but what I say to my child's friends sometimes it's
like they'll be like, oh, I feel like I'm nagging
my boyfriend because of this thing, And I will say,
nag him as much as he possibly can now to
make it to make the burden less for you if
(36:50):
you ever have kids with this person, because but there's
so much shared responsibility that you need this person to
chip in on. True. Um, but there is a different
It is a different ball game that we necessarily don't
can't necessarily relate to when there are you know, quote
unquote more traditional roles if somebody is working and somebody
is at home, specifically as kids, those responsibilities don't aren't
(37:12):
drawn along the same line as ours are. Yeah, but
it's still the thing where postpartum you're kind of like
lifeless and just trying to survive. And if someone is
not taking upon themselves to go to the grocery store
and get edible food that doesn't take three hours to prepare.
They are deadweight and they are dragging you down. Well, all,
(37:34):
I'm want to hit another aspect of this, which is
the husband's not that into kids, and everyone says, well,
he will be, And I'll say that there is an
evolutionary explanation that backs up that argument, which is when
children are born, statistically they look much more like their fathers.
(37:54):
This is a hunter gatherer thing because when women have babies,
obviously this cave woman knows it's there, it came out
of them, but dads don't necessarily know their participation in
as far has been nine months. Why genetically babies come
out looking more like their dad exactly, That's what I'm saying.
And so I would say, I think there is being
a dad and seeing this baby and seeing yourself in
(38:17):
it that is a totally different thing than just loving
babies in general. But I will say this is like
again another case for um paternity leave, because you know
women give at trinity leave and then men often don't,
and then you know there's already so much that the
man feels like, oh well, I can't breastfeed. I can't
do that. I guess this is my job. And then
(38:38):
men don't bond with the baby as early as they could.
And I think if you were bottle feeding, or your
husband took paternity leave and really devoted himself to connecting
with the baby early on, there's more of a chance
that he's going to start to take responsibility for things. True,
we're starting too, that's all true. I think we're talking
a little bit two separate things. Um, But I think
(39:00):
there also is something natural which happens as a dad.
Has happened to me, and statistically this happens, which is
dad's have a harder time connecting with their kids when
they're newborns. And I know, like when they're brand new
and you were breastfeeding, and that was the first big
realization for me that this infant truly needed you in
a direct way. Okay, some of this is like the
(39:25):
facts at hand, but some a lot of it is
that men have been conditioned to think that the emotional
labor of taking care of a household and taking care
of the people around them is not their responsibility, and
so they're very clunky in their attempts to take part
in that, And that's why I would say to her,
(39:46):
I don't think it's impossible. She knows her husband better
than I do, so I don't know what his ability
is to cook and clean and care for another human being,
but she depending on his current level of interest, I
think she needs to says some firm bound reason expectations
as to what how he needs to step up in
the future when there is this demanding person and not sure. Yeah, well,
(40:07):
what you're talking about is responsibility, you know, for raising
this child. But not just responsibility. It's paying attention to
the people in the room around you. Like women tend
to be better at reading a room and noticing when
other people around them are unhappy or need a drink,
or like they're just keyed into the overall well being
(40:29):
of the group. And men don't see that as a responsibility.
And I don't think that's that's not genetic, that's conditioned
by culture. Sure, I think that's all great and valid.
I think something that she's worrying about that's not necessarily
tied to that is that is him having a being connected.
(40:51):
I'm not worried about the connection. I mean, yes, it
might take him a little longer than her because this
baby came out of her and her body is like
physically telling her to love the baby. That's not I'm
worried about. What I'm worried about is the new mom
feeling of feeling like you're dying and no one is
helping you. Yeah, yeah, big time. Uh. But on that
(41:13):
other point, just a study something I heard about those
great did I already talk about this that dad's peak
interest in kids tends to sort of peek at three,
whereas mom's peak connection to their child is much younger. Yeah,
I mean, I know that's true. That might be something
that happens where your husband is not like baby obsessed.
(41:36):
I understand that to be true. But I also am
very skeptical of a lot of this data coming out
that seems to paint a picture of like, well, this
is the way it is and women are just more
locked in, And it doesn't All of this data doesn't
account for the ways people are conditioned to behave by
society and the way men are told that things are
not the responsibility. I think this will be a continuing
(41:58):
theme in the podcast, where Beth is going to give you,
She's gonna always think first and give you the sort
of the societal implications of expectations on behavior and my
of course, I'm going to go to the science of it,
and the explanation is going to be in the middle
of these things. Like studies don't paint a full picture
of the world. Studies are connected by people with an
(42:19):
agenda and with very specific sets of data that don't
tell the whole story. So if we're not giving men
in this country paternity leave, that accounts for a large
portion of this disconnect they feel between themselves and their baby.
I agree with you a million percent, but I'm not
gonna you sometimes disregard the science of it more than
I would. And I'm just saying, in the middle of
(42:40):
this ven diagram, the truth lies in the middle of
our ven diagram. Fair, I don't know what you're saying.
I'm just saying, don't don't discount data means it means
counting data. I'm just saying, I don't. We have We've
had data for hundreds of years. It's never told the
whole story. Of course, science, like medical studies tend to
(43:05):
study only men, and that's still true. And it's horrifying
that even recent medical studies about breast cancer have been
conducted exclusively on men. And that's insane. Yes, that is insane. So, Aubrey,
we don't know. We hope it go that Beth. Beth
(43:26):
is giving you. Here's what you do, Aubrey. It's baby steps,
but you try to leave him floundering as much as
you can these days, with the groceries, with the cleaning.
See where he can step up and give him an
opportunity to grow, and he will slowly become a partner.
And I'll say, when this baby is born, he will
(43:47):
see himself in this baby and that will be his
main point of interest is himself. And it's it's hardwired
to see yourself and go, I must protect this thing.
If he's if he's a loving, attentive partner to you,
I think can't be to your kid. I'm not worried
about that. That part is fine. Who We raised more
questions than we answered, but I felt good about it.
(44:08):
Good luck, Aubrey. We don't know. Okay, before we go,
we just have one more quick question from a listener.
Here we go. This question is actually anonymous and it's
a doozy Beth, and I think you're gonna like it.
Are you ready here's the question. Do you think it's
possible that babies actually know more than us, but in
the process of learning how to communicate and exist as
(44:31):
adult humans, they forget it all until they eventually rejoined
the cosmos explain, I think you have different answers to this,
and I'm gonna let you go first. I think it's possible. Okay,
I don't great and that has been Listeners want to
knows This has been We Knows Parenting. If you want
(44:58):
to hear more of me best see you can find
me on the Reductorrous Minute podcast, and if you'd like
some hilarious children's entertainment, check out the Story Parts podcast
that I host as well. If you have any parenting questions,
send them to we knows Pod at gmail dot com
or find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at we
knows pod. And if you have any weird, complex, intense, insane,
(45:22):
or relatable parenting hypothetical situations that you'd like to send
us or our would you knows segments, you can send
those along as well and have yourself a great day.
Please please do it for us. We'll see you next time.
My me
I got to say hello. Welcome to We Knows Parenting,
the parenting podcast hosted by real life parents. I'm Beth Newell,
I'm Peter McNerney. We are not experts, but we do
(00:22):
have two small children, real life children. This podcast, we
compare notes and try to figure out what we knows
about parenting. Hello, Beth, Hey, how are you pretty good?
We just had a cleaning lady show up, so you're
feeling extra relaxed to me? I mean it makes me
uncomfortable when you talk about it here. You don't like
(00:44):
you don't like the world knowing that we pay a
woman to come twice a month to clean our apartment. Yeah,
I feel like it ruins my street credits, like being
a real person who understands real problems. You're not you're spoiled.
I am now feel You're not spoiled. You earned this.
It's not like that was. This was a not a
(01:05):
simple choice to hire somebody because you're spending some money.
It's not a ton of money, but there is something
incredibly indulgent about it. How does that make you feel?
Like I just described, I feel very happy to have
it and very uncomfortable to have people know that I
have it. Well, you're on a podcast now, so now
you have to be honest with the whole world. Um yeah,
(01:28):
it's uh, we're having a better week this week. We Uh,
no one was on a sound no one was really sick.
Was this a full week? This was a full week
of no one having to stay home sick. We did
it with an incredible victory. Oh my gosh. So the
big thing this week for me. Last Saturday we had
(01:50):
the story parts. The arts education company that I worked
for had our big New York benefit, and Bren and
Maven came to the show and this is the very
first time that they've ever seen me on stage. And
I gotta say, I think I was pretty good. Yeah,
I think they enjoyed it. I was in terms of
(02:12):
entertaining my children. I was more focused on just like
them getting through the day and like getting into the
city and all those logistics. You did that all in
your own. I was gone, Well, my sister was there
when I got there, but still, um, they did well.
They were It's it's it's always awkward because you're like
(02:33):
driving in the city, finding a parking garage, getting a
double stroller out of the trunk, like putting kids in
stroller while the parking garage guy waits for you to
do that. Then like pushing a double stroller through midtown
New York City and hoping the place we arrive at
has a place for you to put a stroller. So
you're saying, you're you miss living in Brooklyn and you
wish that we'd stay there away, No, not at all.
(02:54):
I also went to our old neighborhood this week, which
was bitter sweet because it was I haven't been there
in years, I think, and it's so much more gentrified
than when we lived there, so which to a certain
degree makes me be like, wow, if we were still here,
we would have this restaurant in this restaurant. But it
also walking to my sister's department, I was like, you know,
(03:16):
I don't miss the late night walk home from the
subway where you have to be on a little bit
on edge and make sure you're safe the whole time. Um,
something I've never thought about, and I would not have
enjoyed dragging two kids around there. You know, It's it's
so incredible to me now because we'd still be there
if I was the only one making that decision. Because
(03:38):
when you're like, I'm having a baby, we need to move.
I was like, what we have time? Like I want
to washer and dryer. I'm like why we're okay? Do
you understand now why we needed a washer and dryer? Yeah,
of course I do. The first week of having so
we moved out of Brooklyn a week before Britain was
born because the it was complicated, took us forever. We're
(04:01):
trying to close on our new place and it was
and we we were supposed to be here like two
months before he was born. One week before he was born,
we move. That's why half of our apartment is painted
because the other half was Bryn was born and we
just stopped painting. And that was three and a half
years ago. But anyways, Story Pirates the show went well.
(04:25):
The kids both sat calmly through most of it. I
think they even got a teeny but Nancy right towards them.
It was a benefit performance. It was like hour and
forty five minutes and then stayed locked in. Compared to
like a regular Story Parts show, which I think would
have been just stories, this had a lot of breaks
to talk about story Pirts and what they do and
like fundraising stuff that is not for kids. So considering that,
(04:46):
I think they did incredible. Um but and then Brian
at the end got to uh push a pie into
someone's face, which is very exciting. My gosh. I was
backstage watching him the whole time. So part of the fundraising,
to make it less uh awkward to ask an audience
for money raising certain amounts, kids come up and get
(05:09):
to throw pies into adults faces. So one of my
colleagues found brand brought him up to stage, and he
was terrified and could not have been more intrigued and
excited about what the hell was happening. I was surprised
he was actually so calm about going up on stage.
I think if it hadn't been story parts and he
(05:29):
wasn't so familiar with the story parts podcasts and songs
and you being part of story parts, I think he
would have not wanted to get on stage for like
a random But then he did it. He smashed the
pie into uh some stranger's face and then booked it
off stage. He just ran on stage like he had
done something wrong. He could he knew because he was like,
(05:52):
this is messy, and mommy and Daddy talked about messes
a lot and they're asking me to do it, and
there's a whole room full of people watch and he
did it so delicately and ran away. Well, it's funny
because we have it on tape from our phones, and
it's like I think he was like, this is a
funny idea of someone's telling me to do this. And
then I think when he saw this person's face covered
(06:13):
in whipped cream or shaving cream or whatever, he all
of a sudden was like, what have I done? What
have I done? And he just fled at the stage
and came back to his seat. I had so many
of those moments growing up where I just suddenly found
myself in the middle of something very stupid, and I
was like, what have I done. Remember being in the
(06:34):
car with my mom and I was probably eight and
for the first time really considering the cigarette lighter in
the car and just pushing it in and then it
popped out and I pulled it out. It's all hot,
and then just looked at it, and then I looked
at my mom, who was driving the car, and then
just without thinking, I just put it right down on
(06:55):
the plastic arm rest between the two seats, and then
smoke started coming up. In the middle of the car.
My mom looks and goes, what are you doing? And
that was the moment I snapped out of it. I go, oh,
I don't I don't know, and I was just holding
this thing, and that mark was there for the next
ten years. It's very similar to Brin who woke up
(07:15):
this morning and got ahold of a pen and colored
all over our insurance claimed check. He wrote, he drew
two frowny faces on the insurance claim check. He missed
all the vital information on the check, and I and
the Chase Online app deposit uh didn't seem to have
(07:37):
a problem with the scribbles all over it. He also
drew all over the bathroom door and immediately goes, I
drew on the door like he knew he had done
something wrong, but was also sort of excited about it.
So last night I didn't tell you. I gave them
green smoothies with dinner, and he of course spilled a
huge amount of smoothie all under the table. But it
(07:59):
was like it was like all over him and the
floor and like in his shoe that was on the floor.
And then when I was done cleaning it up, maybe
I walked back in and Maven was like mess, mess,
and she was putting at the wall and it was
also sprayed all up the wall. Um from one spill. Yeah,
I don't know what he did. He just like flying
(08:20):
it all over the place. Um. But I I was glad.
I stayed very calm, and he was like, oh no,
and I was like, it's okay. Just at this point,
just it's amazing how calm you get with your kids
just constantly destroying everything you own. Oh yeah, I think
you you've come a longer way because I was sort
(08:42):
of already comfortable with destruction and uh, you've picked your battles. Well.
We've talked about this is a little bit of a
class issue because if you have less money and things
get destroyed, it's natural to have a extreme reaction. It's true, boy,
thinking about stuff that I've broken growing up, I really
(09:04):
am spoiled because things yet broken. I'd be like, shoot, yeah,
I'll have to get another disc man. And if that
happened in my house, they would never let you live
it down for the rest of your life. Newells never forgets.
(09:25):
Our next segment is called We Knows Wins. This is
where we share some of our parenting wins for the week, Peter,
what's her wind? I have a little one, and it's
so thoroughly satisfying. Brin when he turned to Ever said
terrible twos. Brinin, I don't think it was a terrible too.
I think when he turned three he was a terrible three.
But he's he's coming out of it. I think he
(09:47):
was a terrible too. It's just that the terrible threes
are so much worse than the two, so much more power. Yeah,
so that three to three and a half, he would
say I'm not getting dressed and defight to get him
dressed dressed felt I felt like I was doing something wrong. Well,
he would have like an animalistic rage and his body
(10:08):
would seize up, and it was like and I would
tackle him into his clothes, I'd pin him down and
you'd be like, you're hurting me, and I'm just like,
I've been patient for tournamentutes. I'm gonna put these plants
on your legs. And that's feels terrible that when they're
too they're more distractable. You can kind of like figure
(10:28):
out a solution or just overpower them more easily, and
they haven't learned how to create a scene and with Britain.
You know, when he was that three and he's like, no,
I'm not going to do this thing. You try to
soften up, you try to negotiate, and it's not happening,
and then you just know that it's going to turn
into like a wrestling match to take a thing away
(10:50):
from him, or to put him into a jacket or
what's your today this morning? He a lot of times
he doesn't. He'll have a toy in his hand when
we leave, and I'm like, you can't bring it into
school because it's gonna get lost. It's gonna be a fight.
So I don't let him take stuff into school. So
we get there, it's about to get out, and he's
got the toy in his hand, and I don't ask.
(11:11):
I don't you know. I just say, do you want
to put the toy in your bag or do you
want to leave it in the car? Those are your options.
He goes, I'm taking it into school. I'm like, no,
you can't take it into school. He goes no, And
it was like no, no, no, And it was almost
getting to that point where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna
have to rip it out of his hands and take
him in and he's gonna scream and I'm gonna walk
into daycare with two screaming kids. And then I had
(11:34):
this moment and I said, brand, if you don't give
it to me in five seconds, I'm going to take it.
And you don't like that, right, You'll probably cry. So
I'm going to do that unless you want to give
it to me right now. And the most shocking thing
in the world happened, which he goes okay and he
hands it to me, and I was like what, And
(11:56):
I was like so over. I was so unexpected that
he thought it through, and he remembers that he doesn't
like it when that happens, and he knows that, like
when I forced him to do something, he's gonna scream
and hate it, and so it's just that I'm going
to do that. Let's not bother. He has flipped a
weird switch recently where he suddenly can comprehend consequences because
(12:19):
I've had all of a sudden more success with being
like Britain. If you keep screaming at Maven, I'm going
to turn the TV off. And he's like, okay, yeah,
I don't want to. Like he just he actually stopped
doing something which is just a new phenomenon. And he'll
try to explain things to Maven now and get frustrated
that she doesn't understand. She's like, Maven, if you stop,
(12:41):
you'll get the thing. She's like, no, it's man. Yeah,
it's funny to see with her because she's just starting
to figure out stubbornness and he's finally coming out of it. Yeah, exactly,
she's embracing her terrible twos. Now it's time for a
(13:05):
new segment. We knows differently. Uh, this is where we
discuss something that we clearly disagree on, and Beth has
something that she was not discussed with me, So let's
all find out together. So what I wanted to talk
about is you shot a video of Brand this week
(13:25):
where he said, Um, I used to be bigger like you.
I used to I used to have a beard like you.
And this is something we disagree on, which is that
I believe in past lives and I think that's ridiculous,
and I I would argue in this video he's talking
about past lives. Well, you know what, I knew that
(13:48):
you're going to say that, and I'll be honest that
I almost didn't post it because I knew you would
love it so much, and then I thought, that's petty,
this is funny. I'm gonna post it. It's also cutting
out the build up to it, which is so in it.
He goes, I had a beard when I was your age,
and then I was Mavin's age and I didn't have
a beard, and now I'm my age again. That's what
(14:10):
it appears in the in the video. But boy, that
seems pretty cyclical. You know what, Let's just listen to
the audio and listen to Brand explain his quote unquote
past lives. What are you telling me? How is your age?
You were my age? Yeah? Um um um when I
(14:34):
had a beardy? Like yeah, so you used to be old? Yeah?
What happened? I getting stuck growing? Oh and then you shrunk?
You got small? Yeah? I no, no, no, I didn't glaspell.
I stopped growling and her into her indoc into a
(14:58):
what into it? Got into a dot? Do it? Dot
and dot? What's that? That's right? You can stop growing?
Oh you go? So you used to have a beard, Yeah,
(15:20):
like you you have. I used the same beard, like, oh,
so what happened to your beard? I was miserable age
and now so when you were a mazing's age you
had a beard? Oh you didn't have a beard? Did
(15:43):
you have a beard? No? When did you have a beard?
And then I was mind you dead? Oh so I'm
a little confused about the timeline. At one point you
were my age, and then I was living's age and
now and now I was turning to into my age back.
(16:05):
So how old am I? By forty degrees? Do you
think I'm forty degrees? I think it seems like very
clearly it's it's the circle of life. But before that
(16:29):
we were talking about I said, Briton, you're gonna turn four,
You're gonna grow bigger. And he said, no, I'm going
to stop growing, and he was doing this I don't
want to get older thing. So we were circling around
the language of getting smaller and getting bigger and goes, no,
I want to get smaller. I want to get big
like you. And then it became sort of this word
soup of ideas. And then you saw that a later thing.
(16:50):
But I bet if you saw the whole thing, you'd
still make the same argument you're making that. Okay, well
it's staring true to me. Yeah, I now, do you
want to get into Ah, why why I believe in
this particular instance, or why I believe in general, believe
it at all. I mean, there's a lot of reasons.
(17:14):
Oh boy, yeah, I just let's not get into it.
I just like, that's that's a whole thing. I think
we So this is really interesting about us, which is
I am very much I trust what I see and
I touched, and you know, and uh, I believe there's
a logical explanation for everything. And you are much more intuitive.
(17:37):
You trust how you feel, and that leads you to
being really into believing things. But I would argue that
I didn't used to believe in any of these things.
And I'm basing my belief on experiences I had physical experience. Sure,
I don't doubt that there's reasons for you to believe
what you believe. But what's interesting because I learned a
(17:57):
long time ago, because at the beginning, I was very like,
you know, that's crazy, right, here's why and obviously those
would be pointless fights. And uh now it's like, oh, okay,
I can accept that people process the world differently and
it's good, uh for them, and that I shouldn't what
a waste of time to like try to talk somebody
(18:19):
out of something like that. So we I think we've
developed like I don't touch those things. I certainly don't want.
I don't indulge in it because I don't enjoy it
that much, but I don't criticize it at all. And
so it's a little bit of it, like that's your stuff,
and I don't get too far into it because I
don't want to get into it and then be disrespectful.
(18:42):
But I do feel like I've gotten to the point
where I can have a conversation with you about it
and not let my own constant need to buzz killy.
It's so I mean, it's it's no one wants to
feel wrong, and especially me, and that's been a big
lesson to turn that off. The like I don't need
to be right about this, I can just listen. I
(19:03):
think the thing that's frustrating for me not to get
on too much of a tangent. But I feel like
people who identify as atheists they have this like need
to explain their side of things, which is like I
think aside that more spiritual people are not discounting like
it's not like we have never heard those arguments before,
and the need, like the need to be right about
(19:24):
it not existing is as ridiculous as the need to
be right about what I believe. I'm just saying what
I believe. I'm not arguing that everyone needs to agree
on that as fact. It's it's just the if if
I allow you to believe that, then then this it
makes me feel unstable, like I don't know what I know.
(19:44):
And that's the emotional dumb part of our brains that
can't let disagreements of fact lie, you know, which gets
into today's political culture right now. I think with what
I've not necessarily interesting. In my in my mom Facebook
group is people have posted different stories of their kids
(20:05):
referring to past lives or the kids, their kids making
statements that would imply that they are like the reincarnation
of their grandparents or something like that. And I think
the stories are really interesting and I think there's often
a lot of very strong evidence for it being true,
and I that like, oh, this kid, how could they
possibly know that? For me? Like? Are are we have
(20:29):
these We have these association machines inside of our skull
and our job. Your brain is automatically comparing things to
look for patterns to compare to things we know so
that we can feel safe about our environments. And so
it's that like your brain is automatically going to associate
this data with something you know, and so that like, oh,
that must be this horoscopes astrology is. But I think
(20:53):
you're not You're not listening to the stories. You're not
like reading any of you are right, I'm not giving
it my all attention because I know that I'm going
to be a jerk about it. But I think some
of these stories are like beyond like coincidence. I won't
I know that I won't think so I know that
(21:15):
I will listen and be like, there's a reasonable explanation
for this. The simbulist explanation is probably true, which is
we've got very faulty, easily tricked brains. Let's not get
into it. We're doing it, doing it now. But I
think it's been a great success recently how we can
(21:39):
let these points of view exist and not not let
it destroy it. Yeah, you don't seem agitative at all, Right,
I just fucking hate it because it's just like it's
just you are writing, You're you're you're filling in the blanks.
It has given you not I'm just kidding, um, but
email me if you agree with me. We know spot
at gmail doc and if you don't agree with me,
(22:03):
just you'm not gonna read it. Sends your interesting stories
about your kids reincarnation, or your child seeing spirits or
guides around them, or ones. We want to hear it all,
I don't. I want to hear dads out there who
under not. I want to hear angry dads. I want
(22:24):
to hear angry dads who need the world to know
that they're right. Explain to me how neuroscience works, and
how we are susceptible to the count the idea of
magic to justify our own wanderings of them, Dads who
teach kids about the importance of imagination and then refuse
to have any imagination about the world around them. I
(22:45):
love the way the human mind works. And then we
can trick our dumb brains into believing these fantasy worlds.
I just don't. I just know that they're fake. But
we we do. You know everything? Oh my gosh, I
do regret that language. We know nothing, We knows nothing.
(23:11):
This next segment is called did you Know? This is
a segment where Peter learns and shares a child or
parenting related fact. I got a fact for you. Are
you ready for the fact? Yeah? Lay it on me.
All right. I'm gonna never sing again in the podcast.
That's not true. I'm gonna think a lot, alright. This
fact comes from a source that I didn't write down,
(23:33):
but I'm gonna trust it it's true because I wrote
it down at one point. The longest study of humans
ever conducted, the seventy five year long Harvard Grant Study,
found that professional success in life comes from having done
chores as a kid. Wow, that's very interesting. Do you
(23:55):
feel does that? How does that make you feel? Did
you did chores? What was your chores? Like, Yeah, we
did chores. I think it's really interesting because I was
just talking about this online, which is like, how do
you not kill your kids creative dreams? Well, also giving
them pragmatic information about how to like go after your
(24:19):
dreams with that with still being able to pay rent
and stuff like. You don't want to give them too
much anxiety about those things, but you also want them
to have a sort of realistic expectation of the world.
You don't want to go be a theater major it'll
be easy, right, you want to go be a theater major,
but I know that this is a dangerous decision you're making.
My parents didn't. I was a theater major, and they
(24:42):
were thrilled because I was just I was different than
my brothers anyway, um, because they hated their other sons
and they were so glad I was different. Not really
can I talk? Oh my god, I just got a glare,
like feeling my gut. Sorry, you all had to witness that.
(25:03):
I apologize. Go ahead, Do you have anything else to
say before I go on? It is still cold outside,
and I'm like, where's summer. So here's the thing about chores.
I think we had chores growing up, but it was
very like, you just have to do this. There's no reward.
We're just going to be mad at you if you don't.
(25:24):
And there wasn't really like a system. It was just
sort of like, all of a sudden, everyone to get
worked up about how much needed to be done. Uh,
And I think everyone just would just get worked up,
you know, like your mom starts having a little bit
of a panic attack of the crushing weight of being
(25:45):
a mother of three children and looking at the filthy
mess surrounding her, and then you know, she starts exploding
in everyone and then you like miserably run and do
those chores and everyone's angry, and it was an anxiety system. Yeah,
so I wouldn't necessarily say that's the best system. I think,
(26:06):
you know, like out louding, outlining. I think kids responsibilities
when they're older. Maybe having like more of a clear
expectation so that they can try to calmly meet it
without being whipped into a frenzy would be good. And
I also, I don't I know that this is probably
not like realistic for everyone financially, but like to have
(26:26):
at least a small monetary reward or some sort of
reward so that kids kind of understand the value of
like earning something, I think it is a good lesson
to have going into the workforce. I had to there
was some chore I had to do every Sunday, and
I don't remember what was really little by mo the lawn,
and I hated it. And I would wait till the
(26:48):
last second, till like the sun started going down, and
I had a mode lawn and I get paid and
if I didn't do it, I'd still have to do
the job. But then I would not get paid. Uh.
And it was the regularity and in the winter I
had to like clean them whole basement or something. Uh.
But the regularity of that in retrospect is like, Oh,
(27:11):
that's having a job, you know, that's being dependable and
having a routine is such an important skill. Whereas if
it is I think, if it is more that like, oh,
do this thing is we got to do this right now,
that's a good that's good too to learn to like
take care of I think there really is something to that.
(27:33):
Every Sunday you're taking care of yourself. You're making sure
this happens. Yeah. I think you know, at a certain
age you should be able to make requests of your
children and get their help. I just think the having
at least some routine element of it, I think is
like a nice way to set clear expectations. So when
do we what age do you? Does that start? Because
(27:56):
I can't brand, I can't get Brand to do anything.
Can you pick up your jacket, buddy? Well, I think
now that he's finally starting to understand consequences, we can
do more of that, and there needs to be more
like you can play with this toy after you put
this toy away, putting things away. He can't wrap his
brain around why you would do that. I think he's
starting to understand a little bit because he's like singing
(28:18):
the clean up song the other day, so I think
he's starting to like actually pick up on that. Well,
he loves coming in to the apartment and flinging off
his jacket in a way to make sure it makes
makes certain that the sleeves get pulled inside out. So
do you do it with every single shirt you wear?
(28:40):
Every time you take off a shirt. I think it's
a little dramatic player that you both have for living
your lives. I mean, is there anything more fun than
like flinging off a piece of clothing. I guess it's
fun if you're not the one doing the laundry later. Well,
that's what I do every single time. That's what we
call hyperbole because I most certainly most of the time,
(29:02):
throw all of my clothes into the hamper, not every time.
When we um went we were on vacation with my family,
and my grandmother intercepted a load of our laundry and
started folding it before I could get to it, and
she said that literally every single shirt was turned inside out?
Oh yeah, yeah, Oh I do do that. I don't.
I don't care. That's I don't care if the laundry
(29:25):
comes out of my shirts are inside out. I put
them in the drawer inside out. I'll take care of
it when I need to put it on. I know
that you're not the same way. Compromise. We've reached where
I don't turn your shirts right side out because I'm
not going to do that for you, but I do
it for you. I've turned all of your shirts right
side But how often are they turned inside out? Often
the laundry. Yes, sometimes you throw clothes in there, like
(29:49):
there's a longsleeve shirt that was in the sweatshirt and
you took both of them off together, and so they
wrapped up and they go straight into the laundry. That's well,
I mean, I don't care. But you're the one saying
I don't do that. But I do your clothes exactly
the way you want them. Thank you. I mean it
took me a little while to figure out what that is,
(30:09):
but I care. This next segment is listeners want to
knows where we take some listener questions. All right, we
got some mail, some email, we got a really great question, Beth.
Uh from Aubrey from New Mexico. I'm gonna read her
(30:32):
email right now. Hi, Peter and Beth. I'm an elementary
school teacher, elementary school social worker in New Mexico. I've
quickly become a we know super fan. Thank you blah
blah blah compliments for us. Uh. Here it is My
husband and I are on the fence about having kids.
He says he will have kids because he knows how
(30:54):
important it is to me, and he says I will
be a good mom, which makes him happy. He says
he feels it will be really positive because we are
both in a good place in our lives. However, he
doesn't have much general interest in kids. Nephews, baby cousins,
kids of the store, et cetera. Do not interest him
or make him smile. Ever, I work with kids with
(31:15):
its disabilities all day and still want to hang out
with my nephews and feel a strong desire to have
kids on my own. Peter and Beth, how do you feel?
How did you feel before you had kids? Was there
a sudden or gradual change in your perspective on having
kids or have you both always looked forward to it
sound like good parents. Thank you, and I'm interested to
know my old school family says men are usually not
(31:38):
excited to have kids, but do well once they're here.
And the culture in New Mexico is pretty quote unquote
traditional a k a. A woman's place in the home,
et cetera. The patriarchy is real. Smiley face. I would
love your perspective. Thank you, Aubrey. A lot of great
questions in there. You wanna do you want to first
tackle where what we thought before we had kids, what
(32:01):
our ideas were? Yeah, did we ever talk about it beforehand?
I feel so many ways about this question. I think
the thing about us is that prior to having kids,
I think we both love kids like we I know that.
I if I was like if there's a baby or
like a two year old in the room, I wanted
(32:22):
in on that like I, and I think you also
are like reasonably interested in children. Yeah. I mean I
worked for story Parts. I've worked with kids for fifteen years,
but that's not why I got into it. I saw
a story part show and I thought it was so
joyous and funny. I wanted to compare to the average person,
your one to want interaction with a child is like pretty.
(32:46):
That was also my intro into your family was coming
for a big family gathering, and I was scared of everybody,
so I just hung out with your six year old
cousins entertained them because they were easier to talk to
than adults. Well, I feel really complicated about this because
I think given that we both liked kids a lot
before we had kids, and I I think I had
(33:09):
fairly realistic expectations for having kids because I babysat a
lot before becoming a mom, and we both worked at
a school for six y and we both worked with kids.
And I still think, in spite of all of that,
having a baby is so much harder than anyone could
ever possibly imagine. Uh yeah, well it's just you don't
You don't really understand it until you've done it. And
(33:31):
it's both so much more manageable than you'd think and
so much more horrible than you think, because you just
it's just an abstract concept until it's your day to
day life. And I, in addition to the feeling like
it's like the most insanely hard thing you could ever do,
I also think it's like the most rewarding thing you
(33:52):
could ever do. Oh yeah, so I have so many
things to say about it. But first of all, we
did not We've said this before, we planned either one
of our children. They were both complete accidents because we're
total idiots. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is like you,
assuming you don't hate the idea. I think what I
think makes it a little more palatable for me is
(34:13):
I think we knew at some point we're gonna have kids.
So the fact that their accidents is like, yes, overwhelming.
But did we ever discuss that or do we both
just assume that's what we were in this for. We
discussed having kids, we knew that, Yes, I just don't remember,
but I will say we had a whole song about it.
Oh that's right, um, full disclosure. When we were very young.
(34:38):
Beth was one. I think we got high one night
and sang songs about our future kids. We weren't there
young when saying that song. That's the most intimate that
we just shared with the whole world. But that's not
really true because we were at least a couple of
years into our relationship and that happensise it sounds very creepy. Um. Anyway,
(35:00):
I think I feel so I guess my thing is
that I think that it's very, very possible that um,
she and her husband would have a kid and fall
in love with this kid, and in spite of how
hard and horrible it is at moments, it would be
great and they would love this kid forever. But I
would say, given what she's explained about the culture in
(35:22):
New Mexico and the woman's places in the home and all,
that she should try to set some expectations with her
husband about what his role in this is going to be,
because I think a lot of men, yourself included, kind
of go into this without really thinking through the day
to day management of keeping another person alive. Oh yeah,
(35:43):
my life has changed dramatically in the past three and
a half years, obviously, and it is that you don't realize,
you don't realize what you don't know, and you don't
realize these sort of unconscious assumptions you have about parenting roles.
But it's also just it's household management to like, I mean,
(36:05):
obviously someone has everything, someone has to be paying attention
to the kid seven. But also I think we were
together for a pretty long time before we had kids,
and we lived together for a long time, So there
was a lot of stuff that slowly I accustomed you
to realizing was partly your responsibility, like cleaning up after
yourself and getting groceries. And true, but I still say that,
(36:29):
I uh, my behavior has changed much more dramatically in
the last three years than it did in the previous seven. Yes,
but what I say to my child's friends sometimes it's
like they'll be like, oh, I feel like I'm nagging
my boyfriend because of this thing, And I will say,
nag him as much as he possibly can now to
make it to make the burden less for you if
(36:50):
you ever have kids with this person, because but there's
so much shared responsibility that you need this person to
chip in on. True. Um, but there is a different
It is a different ball game that we necessarily don't
can't necessarily relate to when there are you know, quote
unquote more traditional roles if somebody is working and somebody
is at home, specifically as kids, those responsibilities don't aren't
(37:12):
drawn along the same line as ours are. Yeah, but
it's still the thing where postpartum you're kind of like
lifeless and just trying to survive. And if someone is
not taking upon themselves to go to the grocery store
and get edible food that doesn't take three hours to prepare.
They are deadweight and they are dragging you down. Well, all,
(37:34):
I'm want to hit another aspect of this, which is
the husband's not that into kids, and everyone says, well,
he will be, And I'll say that there is an
evolutionary explanation that backs up that argument, which is when
children are born, statistically they look much more like their fathers.
(37:54):
This is a hunter gatherer thing because when women have babies,
obviously this cave woman knows it's there, it came out
of them, but dads don't necessarily know their participation in
as far has been nine months. Why genetically babies come
out looking more like their dad exactly, That's what I'm saying.
And so I would say, I think there is being
a dad and seeing this baby and seeing yourself in
(38:17):
it that is a totally different thing than just loving
babies in general. But I will say this is like
again another case for um paternity leave, because you know
women give at trinity leave and then men often don't,
and then you know there's already so much that the
man feels like, oh well, I can't breastfeed. I can't
do that. I guess this is my job. And then
(38:38):
men don't bond with the baby as early as they could.
And I think if you were bottle feeding, or your
husband took paternity leave and really devoted himself to connecting
with the baby early on, there's more of a chance
that he's going to start to take responsibility for things. True,
we're starting too, that's all true. I think we're talking
a little bit two separate things. Um, But I think
(39:00):
there also is something natural which happens as a dad.
Has happened to me, and statistically this happens, which is
dad's have a harder time connecting with their kids when
they're newborns. And I know, like when they're brand new
and you were breastfeeding, and that was the first big
realization for me that this infant truly needed you in
a direct way. Okay, some of this is like the
(39:25):
facts at hand, but some a lot of it is
that men have been conditioned to think that the emotional
labor of taking care of a household and taking care
of the people around them is not their responsibility, and
so they're very clunky in their attempts to take part
in that, And that's why I would say to her,
(39:46):
I don't think it's impossible. She knows her husband better
than I do, so I don't know what his ability
is to cook and clean and care for another human being,
but she depending on his current level of interest, I
think she needs to says some firm bound reason expectations
as to what how he needs to step up in
the future when there is this demanding person and not sure. Yeah, well,
(40:07):
what you're talking about is responsibility, you know, for raising
this child. But not just responsibility. It's paying attention to
the people in the room around you. Like women tend
to be better at reading a room and noticing when
other people around them are unhappy or need a drink,
or like they're just keyed into the overall well being
(40:29):
of the group. And men don't see that as a responsibility.
And I don't think that's that's not genetic, that's conditioned
by culture. Sure, I think that's all great and valid.
I think something that she's worrying about that's not necessarily
tied to that is that is him having a being connected.
(40:51):
I'm not worried about the connection. I mean, yes, it
might take him a little longer than her because this
baby came out of her and her body is like
physically telling her to love the baby. That's not I'm
worried about. What I'm worried about is the new mom
feeling of feeling like you're dying and no one is
helping you. Yeah, yeah, big time. Uh. But on that
(41:13):
other point, just a study something I heard about those
great did I already talk about this that dad's peak
interest in kids tends to sort of peek at three,
whereas mom's peak connection to their child is much younger. Yeah,
I mean, I know that's true. That might be something
that happens where your husband is not like baby obsessed.
(41:36):
I understand that to be true. But I also am
very skeptical of a lot of this data coming out
that seems to paint a picture of like, well, this
is the way it is and women are just more
locked in, And it doesn't All of this data doesn't
account for the ways people are conditioned to behave by
society and the way men are told that things are
not the responsibility. I think this will be a continuing
(41:58):
theme in the podcast, where Beth is going to give you,
She's gonna always think first and give you the sort
of the societal implications of expectations on behavior and my
of course, I'm going to go to the science of it,
and the explanation is going to be in the middle
of these things. Like studies don't paint a full picture
of the world. Studies are connected by people with an
(42:19):
agenda and with very specific sets of data that don't
tell the whole story. So if we're not giving men
in this country paternity leave, that accounts for a large
portion of this disconnect they feel between themselves and their baby.
I agree with you a million percent, but I'm not
gonna you sometimes disregard the science of it more than
I would. And I'm just saying, in the middle of
(42:40):
this ven diagram, the truth lies in the middle of
our ven diagram. Fair, I don't know what you're saying.
I'm just saying, don't don't discount data means it means
counting data. I'm just saying, I don't. We have We've
had data for hundreds of years. It's never told the
whole story. Of course, science, like medical studies tend to
(43:05):
study only men, and that's still true. And it's horrifying
that even recent medical studies about breast cancer have been
conducted exclusively on men. And that's insane. Yes, that is insane. So, Aubrey,
we don't know. We hope it go that Beth. Beth
(43:26):
is giving you. Here's what you do, Aubrey. It's baby steps,
but you try to leave him floundering as much as
you can these days, with the groceries, with the cleaning.
See where he can step up and give him an
opportunity to grow, and he will slowly become a partner.
And I'll say, when this baby is born, he will
(43:47):
see himself in this baby and that will be his
main point of interest is himself. And it's it's hardwired
to see yourself and go, I must protect this thing.
If he's if he's a loving, attentive partner to you,
I think can't be to your kid. I'm not worried
about that. That part is fine. Who We raised more
questions than we answered, but I felt good about it.
(44:08):
Good luck, Aubrey. We don't know. Okay, before we go,
we just have one more quick question from a listener.
Here we go. This question is actually anonymous and it's
a doozy Beth, and I think you're gonna like it.
Are you ready here's the question. Do you think it's
possible that babies actually know more than us, but in
the process of learning how to communicate and exist as
(44:31):
adult humans, they forget it all until they eventually rejoined
the cosmos explain, I think you have different answers to this,
and I'm gonna let you go first. I think it's possible. Okay,
I don't great and that has been Listeners want to
knows This has been We Knows Parenting. If you want
(44:58):
to hear more of me best see you can find
me on the Reductorrous Minute podcast, and if you'd like
some hilarious children's entertainment, check out the Story Parts podcast
that I host as well. If you have any parenting questions,
send them to we knows Pod at gmail dot com
or find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at we
knows pod. And if you have any weird, complex, intense, insane,
(45:22):
or relatable parenting hypothetical situations that you'd like to send
us or our would you knows segments, you can send
those along as well and have yourself a great day.
Please please do it for us. We'll see you next time.
My me
We Knows Parenting News
Hosts And Creators
Beth Newell
Peter McNerney
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.