December 4, 2018 • 46 mins
This week Peter loses his mind and in an utterly desperate attempt to get Bryn to cooperate threatens to throw away all of his toys. Maeven begins potty training and may or may not be using the threat of peeing her pants to assert her power. Peter shares an article about how girls views of themselves has evolved over the years while society’s hasn’t kept pace. Peter and Beth then answer some listener mail about “Resistance Peeing.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to We Knows Parenting. This is Peter
McNerney with me always as Beth Newell, but not in
this moment, because as I edit this podcast, I realized, Um,
I accidentally lost the first ten seconds of the recording,
uh where there was a technical issue. So I'm rerecording
(00:33):
it because Beth is asleep like always and I'm not
gonna wake her up. Um, but we only lost ten seconds,
so I'm rerecording it now and we rejoined the real
recording on a very applicable topic. Now, Um, we just
had to pause for technical difficulties for a second, which
you guys won't hear, but I just have to say
it is the most mercury retrograde mercury retrograde of all time.
(00:58):
That moment me me needing to stop the recording to
adjust something was so mercury retrograde. Well, it's like technical difficulties, Like,
that's a classic mercury retrocra I find. I mean, besides,
you know, not believing in it at all. I find
it to be a little bit of a catch all
(01:22):
was a little too broad. But the frequency with which
we have had funk ups in the last week is
truly insane, and I have to tell our listeners what
the funniest one of all was, which is that you
accidentally ordered six boxes of six hand soaps each like
Miss Myers Pump hand soap. To be clear, that's we're
(01:45):
now the proud owners of thirty hands, as we gave
six away with our friends. But luckily we're not at
a living paycheck to paycheck moment in our lives because
we just spent a hundred and fifty are is on
hand soap. I the eas at which you can purchase
things on Amazon app is dangerous, but looking at the
(02:09):
amount you're paying for something I did not standard move
for ordering things on I want to buy in them,
like six bottles of soap. I'm not going to look
at the price because you already had purchased them, So
I'm like, this is close enough. I feel like this
is how your brain works. When you're checking out, You're like,
you see a container of six in the image for
the product, you think six, that's a good amount, and
(02:31):
then you type six into the bar and then you
hit check out and you don't read anything at all,
and then you confirm you gave me too much credit
because I did not read any words whatsoever. I scanned
the image of the bottle. You subconsciously saw an image
of six bottles because that's the amount in each box.
You know, that's not a terrible theory. But I scanned
(02:53):
the image of the bottle because you can do an
image search, and then there are a ton of options
in a different bunch of different I was gonna say
flavor verse, but since I was like, this one's close enough,
and then I was like, I don't want to do
this a bunch. I'll get a good number six. Probably
also solve the number six. And now we have thirty
six bottles, and so I'm trying to figure out a
(03:15):
place that we could donate these, like a church or
shelter or something, because I feel like soap is a
very useful item. I just like, we don't It's December,
and I don't want to be thinking about this or
doing it. Don't think about it. It's a way in
the closet. There's room for it. Now. We don't have
to goddamn soap for half a year. I don't want
to store two years of hand soap that we're going
(03:36):
to burn through that hand soap so fast. So you're
really oversked. I'm gonna be so liberal with how much
soap I use, then we're going to be moving. We're
gonna have to move with like fifteen bottles of soap
at some point. Not gonna move before we use all
that hand soap. Wow, I mean, listeners, place your bets.
Are we going to move? I want to hear it.
(03:57):
I'm going to if I have time and energy, unload
these bottles on a worthy cause because it is insane
to store so many bottles so um. You're never going
to do that, and it fits very nicely into our closet,
and I stand by the choice anyway. Other Mercury tricod stuff.
We had potty training with a like a pretty decent
(04:17):
amount of pee pants, but nothing dramatic, but only at home, well,
and in the car. Yes, in the car. She'd actually
did p on herself three times today, but none of
those times were daycare because at daycare they're great. They
put her on the toilet once an hour, and then
she gets home and I'm like, I'll do it at
some point. We're not that good. We don't have a
(04:41):
great routine at home, but at daycare they're doing it
for us. That's a trick leave them at daycare for
far more hours than most parents do. And the best
parenting trick is just have plenty of money to have
other people watch your kids. Uh. Yeah, we're just and
in it. I'm just saying. But I will say we
(05:03):
had a week off of daycare and so we did
a like a fake daycare at one of the women
who works there his house. I think we kind of
got into this. We got into but she was the
one that was like, can I potty train Mayven this week?
And we were like, okay, yeah, and she did a
great job. And then every time we went to pick
Brin up from that location or drop him off, he
(05:24):
was insane and you almost lost your mind. We'll talk
about this already, Okay, So I think we recorded right
after the first day last week where I had a
big old rant. Yeah, and you picked him up by
his jacket. It got so much worse after that. I
want to talk about one of the most shameful you're
just tuning in as I'm What I was saying is
(05:45):
that last week my husband got so mad that he
picked her four year old up by his jacket, and
then the week got worse. Yeah, So I got he
would not walk, He wouldn't do any I was like
trying to be so patient and we're running late and
I have to go to an audition and he won't walk,
and I'm like, okay, we have this talk. It's the
(06:07):
next day. The details don't matter, but all you need
to know is that I reached a really low point
and I am ashamed of myself because I tried every
tactic to get him to walk, and we're may even
won't walk. She's little, she's crying. I have to pick
her up. Then Brin won't walk. I'm trying to like
bribe him. I just immediately throw all my good tactics
(06:28):
out the window and then I start bribing, and then
I put her down and I pick him up, admittedly
way too forcefully. I'm not he's not in any danger.
I'm not hurting him. But it's scary you're actively trying
to terrify your son. I'm just full of rage, and
I haven't really close to my face, and I do
that sort of like whisper yelling, and I'm like, sure
(06:49):
me can me walk? And and he just of course
is now terrified and burst into tears, and I get
him in the car and we have a silent drive
to daycare, and I calmed down, and of course I
feel terrible, and I'm like, I'm a bad dad, and
I'm like, I'm like, so, I'm sorry, Brandon, are you
ready to get out of the car, ready to walk?
And he looks at me and he's still defiant and
(07:11):
he's go mmmmmmm. And I was like well, and it
all came raging back, and I had to pick up
both of them, and I had to carry both of them,
which is sixty pounds at least more than that, and
ended bag. And I had to carry all the food
because we picked one day where we got food for
all the kids, so I'm carrying over a hundred pounds.
(07:34):
And then no, here's the worst moment. I threatened if
Bren didn't walk once we got there, that I was
going to go home and throw away all of his toys.
And he looked at me with such horror and terror,
and in my mind, I was like, I can't back
that up. I'm not going to do that. That was
just the cruelest thing that I've ever done. And I
(07:55):
left still mad, and I've never done that. And I
got in my car and I cried, Okay, can I
talk a little bit on the um. So when I
was picking him up, he was still pretty difficult, but
not quite that difficult because I think some of it
his anger was specifically tied to you, um and so
(08:16):
he oh. So the first thing I picked him up,
I get we're outside of the place where he's being
watched this week, and he he's like hiding in a
corner and I like pretended to think you walk away,
And then I come back and he's picked up a
can of solvent that he found on the ground, and
I'm like no, And then as I'm saying this, he
(08:37):
hits spray. Luckily it goes away from him. Solvent on
the sidewalk. No, it was in the driveway. It's like,
clearly someone who lives downstairs or in the house or
whatever they're like is has stores and stuff or whatever,
but it's just like laying there and so our son
now probably has like a little a light residue of
(08:58):
solvent on him. But I'm just so like tense already.
I'm like, we gotta get them home, like I just
so I give them their bribery. Oreos, he's not washed
his hands, and I smelled his hands and they were
like okay. So I was like, I guess he's not
covered in solving. We've all got a lot of toxic
things in our body, so he's eating oreos probably like
(09:20):
licking solving off his fingers. Uh we get home, okay.
He like, Uh. One of these nights I had, I
was like building on your thing and trying to scare
him out of the car, and I was like, well,
I guess you can stay outside here where you know
there's wolves and things. And it's like I'm gonna go.
(09:41):
I'm going inside with Mayven. He's like, there's not wolves,
and I was like, yeah, well, I don't know, maybe
some people come back whatever. Like I was just trying
to like make it sound lightly scary, and that kind
of scared him in. And then the next night when
we were coming, when I was picking him up from
the digger place, he was like being so annoying and
trying to walk into like leeways and things, and like
(10:02):
he I saw this postman coming towards us and he
had these like red like like laser like flashlights on
his head so that he could look down at the
mail because it was getting dark and from a distance,
it looked like evil red eyes and I was like, oh, Brian,
oh here comes like laser eyes or something. Everyone I said,
(10:24):
but Brian saw it and he was like just like
a little bit spooked and he started walking faster. So
it was a lot of like tricks. Yeah, it was like,
none of this is good. Any of you listening. These
are not good things to do. I've made him afraid
of the dark because I did that tactic too. I
was like, what if people come by and you're all
(10:44):
alone and I just left the car door open and
make all fairy tales makes sense because you're like, the
alternative is my kid literally walks into traffic or walks
into the forest and the woods little Germans fourteenth century
child be eaten by a troll. That's what That's what
we did. We grim fairytaled our kids. We did, and
(11:04):
I'm standing by. I felt a lot of shame, But
you know what, he's all amped up because of this
daycare situation in a new place. It's a new place.
He's all excited. And then that energy traveled into Saturday,
which is when we agreed to do the longest play
date of all time, um, which is not we're not
mad about this. We're just like, it couldn't all of this.
(11:28):
It was a confluence of unfortunate events. Basically, yeah, we
we had we had some friends in like clearly a
tight spot this weekend. So we took their four year
old for eight hours and they were just they were
just trying to go to work, which is like the grind.
We very much empathize with the like we're going to
ask you to do the same thing. I was so
excited when they they didn't ask us to like any babysitters,
(11:50):
were like, we'll take him, and I was like, we're
going to need that. It's really good because even if
we only use them for like three hours. Now, I'm
still like, well, this is the second time we've watched
their kid, and it was like so long. So now
it's like when you ask me for a favor where
you're like I'm going to be gone for a week
and I'm like, great, now I can ask for one
thing that's like just for me. Yeah, So we had
(12:11):
their kids, and then of course Mercury retrograde. You get
a Saturday audition, which is not normal happens once a year. Yeah,
you get a Saturday audition. So I'm like, great, now
I have to be home in the middle of the
day with three kids in a two bedroom apartment. I
can't take them outside because they'll all sprint towards traffic immediately.
So we're just cooped up in here, and I like,
(12:34):
I planned decorating cookies with them, keep them focused. But
they were Britain and his friend had been together all
week in this new environment, probably fighting over toys and
things the whole week, in like even smaller space than
there used to and so I was like, there's like
true best friends. They fight real hard and then they
(12:55):
and then they're like you're my best friend and they're
hugging each other. There really are four year olds. So
some hours they were like fine, and I was glad
I had planned the cookie decorating because they were really
cheerful after that for at least a solid hour, whereas
like a lot of the day, well no, but they're
just like happy, I think. I mean, it wasn't just
the sugar, which is good, but they um so much
(13:18):
of the day was just like print being bossy for
no reason and like getting mad and like storming off
and then banging something for attention. And like it was
just like but like, his friend is so patient with him,
and then by the end of the day, his friend
was just like clearly so fed up and starting to
get sensitive. And they both do it and then they're
both so sweet and then they're both like yeah, but
(13:40):
his friend is just slightly more mature, like he's a
older he's like just a little more emotionally mature, and
he's like he knows to be patient about certain things
like that happened that so Brit was being super bossy
and he was like, he's like, you don't You're not
always said you're not allowed to think. Don't think. His
(14:02):
friend was like I want to think, and he's like, no,
you can't think. It's one of these like great arguments.
And then I'm listening to this in the kitchen. I
was like, this is this is dumb argument, even for
four year olds. And then I hear and tears and
I come in and Britt's friend runs into the corner
behind the chairs and he hides in the ball. I'm like,
(14:23):
what happened? And he like he's like hiding, Like if
you if I don't see him, he like he's not
being seen. And I go and I see Brannan's crying,
and clearly his friend was like, I'm not putting up
with his argument and pushed Brent over and and my
thought was like, Brant needs someone to push him down. Yeah,
his friend is much more physical than him, which I
(14:44):
think is weirdly a good thing for him to be around,
even though it does it does kind of make him
jump around more, which is like just something you don't
love him doing when you have people living underneath you.
I'm so stressed about the stomping. Yeah, I mean, but
in the end that multiple times I saw them just
hug each other and say you're my best friend. Yeah.
(15:07):
They had a lot of fun. And even when they
were in this huge fight when his friend was leaving
and they were both kind of yelling at each other
and his friend wanted to tell him something and he
wouldn't let him and he's like, I'm not going to
listen and you like whatever, and his friend didn't want
to leave until he was able to tell him, and
they're both getting so upset, and it's like so getting
so late, it's like almost bed time, and so they're
(15:27):
both just like fighting about nothing. And as soon as
Brin's friend was leaving Britain was like simultaneously arguing me
about like not liking him and being not being his
friend anymore, but also not wanting him to leave and
not wanting he kept wanting assurance that they were going
to hang out again tomorrow or something. It was just
like they're simultaneously like we hate and love each other,
(15:49):
so don't go, don't go, You're not my friend anymore.
Why they threaten each other with not being friends anymore?
That's a big So I want to tark about one
more thing, which was body parts. So maybe has been
really naked. She was naked all weekend because the body training,
and she was naked for like the entirety of that
(16:09):
plate age. She loved. She was confin playing with these two,
the two big kids, and uh, anyway, so I was
changing her and I don't know how this came up,
but Brian started talking about as wiener and he was like,
he's like, look, I don't know how it came up,
but somehow it also was Maven doesn't have a wiener.
(16:32):
I was like, yeah, girls, girls don't have and it's
like girls don't have penises. Uh, he goes, yeah, Maven
doesn't girls don't have wieners. They just have butts. And
he also said like, yeah, when I was born, I
didn't have a wiener. I just had a butt, and
now I have one. I was like, well, we're gonna
unpack that later. I was like well, and I was like,
(16:55):
this is the time we're gonna be honest about language.
And I was like, well, girls don't have wieners, they
have vaginas. I think it was a word. And then
either one of them has ever heard and so I
was like, my gas, it's just like something wrong. And
I was like no, He's like, no, they just have butts.
And I sort of explained that there's a difference, and
(17:18):
then uh, and then maybe was trying to say vagina
and it just came out. She at one point just
said I have a giant butt. I was like, as
far as they're concerned, yeah, girls don't have penises. They
just have a giant butt. We do. We just have
a giant but it could be more wrong. Well, can
(17:40):
we also talk about Brendon calling his his pecks body cheeks? Yes,
because you were explaining something to him right about cheeks
and butt cheeks. Yeah, we're talking about they came out
of that conversation. We're talking about cheeks and I was like,
butt cheeks something that he's his butt hurt. I was like,
in your butt? He goes my butt and I was like,
(18:01):
let's talk about butt cheeks, like you have to explain
to my chest and he goes he goes these my
body cheeks and then that I said, well, no, those
are those are your nipples? Have you start talking about nipples?
He's like, maybe have nipples. I was like yep. It
was like do you have nipples? And like yep, And
(18:23):
then he goes does and then he named one of
the women at daycare because does she have nipples? And
I was like, this is a dangerous game we're playing.
And I was like, I'm going to change the subject
right now. So unsettling. He's just gonna start asking everyone
about their nipples. Luckily, he forgot the word for nipples
and he just calls them body cheeks. They should be
(18:43):
called body cheeks. I mean, let's start that up. Everyone
tell your kids body cheeks. You think about it, Women
do have one big butt, but we also have a body.
But this next segment is called did you Knows? It's
(19:05):
where we share some parenting related information we've probably found online.
We did find it online. Uh. This was from the
New York Times. This is a really fascinating article from
a while back. Um, here's the gist of it. Um,
So that this was a study done with current teenagers
(19:25):
aged I think ten to nineteen, and it was about
sort of how they see gender expectations today. And there's
clearly been some changes in the UH in recent times
and some things that have not changed. And here's I'm
gonna jump around a bit to give you the gist
of it. Uh. These are findings from a new nationally
(19:51):
nationally representative poll of a thousand children and adolescents from
age ten to nineteen, along with other research on this
age group. Girls were as likely as boys to say
math or science was their favorite subject and to have
considered running for office, which is a change in attitudes
from from recent generations. And they said they were mostly
(20:13):
treated fairly compared with boys, and that's a positive change.
Yet when it came to their bodies, girls said they
did not feel equal. About three quarters of girls fourteen
to nineteen in the survey said they felt judged as
a sexual object or unsafe as a girl by far.
They said society considered physical attractiveness to be the most
(20:35):
important female trait, a view that adult women share. Surveys
have found girls were also more likely than boys to
say that they felt a lot of pressure to put
others feelings before their own. This is a contradiction we
put in front of girls. You should be confident and
do well in school and do athletics, but you're supposed
to also be a good sex object. At the same time,
(20:57):
boys said strength and toughness were the male characteristic character
traits that were most valued by society. Three quarters said
they felt pressure to be physically strong, and a majority
felt pressure to play sports. Asked what society expects boys
to do when they feel angry, the largest shares said
(21:17):
they were supposed to be aggressive or be quiet and
suck it up. When they felt sad or scared, they
felt pressure to hide those feelings or be tough and strong. Instead,
girls whore we are able to express themselves by crying
or screaming or talking about their feelings. UM Boys said
that these qualities the qualities they valued most in themselves
(21:38):
were ambition and intelligence, but they were deeply aware that
society valued male strength. UM There's a lot more to
that article was really fascinating, But the big takeaway that
thought was fascinating is that is that girls see themselves.
The biggest change in the past and you know generation
(21:59):
is girls see themselves. They value themselves, their strength, their intelligence,
their leadership skills more than they ever have before, but
still feel that society values them for yeah, they're attractive. Well,
I would, I would argue that a lot of those biases.
I mean, you you feel it more strongly as you
(22:21):
get older, and I think nothing makes you feel it
as strongly as entering the workforce and trying to be
seen as on par with other people in terms of
how much money you're getting, in the amount of like
control you're allowed on your work, and like, you know,
the kinds of opportunities you're getting. It's just like so
I think, what that's what worries me in terms of
(22:43):
like women, young girls getting more confident, is I feel
like they've said a similar thing about my generation, which
is like nineties, like like girl power was coming into
play and like you didn't. My perception growing up was
not that I had it any harder as a girl.
It's only when I got out into the world and
(23:03):
tried to do things that I felt like I was
being held back because the public school system does kind
of favor girls that like much better than the rest
of the world does. Um, And you can get good
grades and feel like you're accomplishing something, and then you
come out of that and you're like, oh, the rules
(23:24):
don't apply anymore. Yeah, that's really interesting. And there's one
more little bit too best that I'm going to read
um because that's the big This is one of those
articles whe I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense to me,
but I had never articulated it quite this way of
just that like, oh, it's it's one thing to value yourself,
(23:47):
but if the world is still seeing you as this
one thing, what do you do about that? But some
like there's a positive ending to this article in terms
of sort of the moment we're in, the me too
era for lack of a better name, is just that
getting mostly men but all people to just suddenly be
(24:11):
more aware of what it is like to be in
that position. So I'm gonna read a little bit here.
There's some signs that recent movements to end sexual harassment
might be influencing teenagers attitudes and the survey, three quarters
of adolescence have heard of me. To a majority of
girls and one third of boys say it has made
(24:32):
them feel able to tell someone that they were harassed
or assaulted. I have more of an ability um that
if they did, have more of an ability that if
they did happen to me, said one girl thirteen. There's
not a chance of me being quiet about it. And
the thing in there that struck me is I can't imagine.
(24:53):
So when I was thirteen, you know, I was certainly
being taught equality matters and that men and women should
be treated equally, but the sort of finer points of
how women are treated differently and sort of what's in
this article was never really explained to me, and I
(25:16):
certainly didn't fully understand how it affects people. Well, I
think that's what I think is so cool about a
lot of these movements is like the you know, like
the these this next generation of kids has such a
much more sophisticated idea of like gender fluidity, and they're
just around it more. And I can feel it, like
the cultural moment that some of these discussions are having,
(25:39):
Like I can feel it rubbing off on me where
like I'm growing as the thirty three year old, and
I can only imagine if I was exposed to these
ideas at a young age. Um. I mean it's like
with the you know, the trans movement and I think
the body positivity movement, and it's like these these things,
(25:59):
we receive them too improve one group of people, but
they actually affect us all and start rubbing up on
all of us and helping us grow. And what you
were saying about the boys feeling pressure to subvert their feelings, like,
I feel like that's like another thing that's being dealt
with right now when people are starting to talk more
about domestic violence and shootings and like where does this
(26:21):
come from? Like why are these men so bottled up?
You know, Well, it's he can't you know. It's a
lot of these topics create sort of unarticulated and unexamined
quote unquote icky feelings, and like the beginning of changing
your attitude and perception of the world is recognizing that
(26:45):
you feel icky about things and why is that? To
push through it? But like I remember that in my lifetime, well,
thinking about not knowing any gay people, you know, being
younger and and admittedly having that feeling of like, oh,
being gay, that's like, oh, that that's sort of is
(27:07):
like an icky idea until you know, you know, this
was when I was younger, and then you actually get
to no gay people and suddenly like that idea is
completely gone from my brain and it had forgotten that
in my lifetime. That has changed even within me, do
you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean I was
(27:29):
right on the cusp of that where I feel like
we kids when I was growing up would use the
word gay as like a joke to make fun of people,
but there was actually like no real meaning attached in
the way that we understood it at that age. It
was just sort of like calling someone stupid, you know
what I mean. And then by the time I was
able to perceive of gay people as an actual thing
(27:52):
aside from just an insult, I it was it was
like around the exact same time that they were starting
to become part of pop culture with the thing like
Ellen and will E Grace and stuff. So in my
mind it was always an okay thing, and only in
the process of being supposed to those things that I
find out that people in my family didn't think they
were okay and but then within years of that, everyone
(28:15):
in my family, partially by virtue of having like multiple
gay grandkids, they were like, oh no, we're we don't
care about that anymore. Yeah, I mean that's the I
think this is the difference in age and us, like
we're two years apart, and like between me and my
older brothers that I think I got a little bit
more of a taste of that, Like, oh, I theoretically
(28:37):
think that's fine, but in my brain I'm like, oh,
but but it's still crazy. You know. I never said that,
but I think that feeling existed in me, and it's
now obviously totally completely gone and has been for a
very very very long time, but that feeling still. I
bring it up because that's what a lot of people
are dealing with right now in terms of like, uh,
(28:59):
you know, gender nonconforming or transgender people where they haven't
they don't really know people and it's not normalized, and
so they're still just in there like that feels icky
to me or I don't get it. But also in
just gender norms in terms of like what a boy
should be and what a girl should be, and when
you veer outside of that, there's this just instinctual. This this,
(29:22):
this feels icky. I don't want to I don't want
to examine my own feelings. So I'm just going to
reject it and move on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,
I mean I'm talking to myself. I don't know what
I'll say is uh. I feel very grateful to have
grown up in a time where it didn't really even
(29:42):
occur to me that being gay was a problem until
until like people were barely bringing it up, um. And
I especially feel grateful for that given that I had
two gay siblings. It was just like there was never
a moment where I had to sort of reconcile my
beliefs around that or pick a side, Like it was
just not a thing I experience. And that's what I
(30:03):
think is so exciting about these young kids now who
will just be exposed to trans people and non binary
people and like they will just have such a like
a wealth of representation that we didn't have. And I mean,
I think there's still a ton of room for representation
in a lot of areas to grow, but what they're
(30:26):
getting is already so much more than what we got,
and that's really exciting. Yeah, And that's the thing you know,
and and I'm sure there's plenty of UM people out there,
people listening who who are not exposed to UM, not
just transgender people. But that's that like don't have a face,
(30:46):
a personal connection with somebody to attach to these things
and are probably struggling with their feelings about it because
it's an abstract thing. So we create these characters in
our head. Yeah. I mean, that's another thing I feel
like about living in New York is when I was
a freshman in college, i met a trans person, and
then I've met multiple in the years since, and I
(31:07):
just it's once you meet someone, it's clearly like not
a big deal. They're just like a person trying to
live their life, you know what I mean. Once you
have a face to it and it's like a nice,
normal person, you're like, oh, what, like yeah, it's yeah yeah. Um. Well,
(31:27):
to bring it back a little bit more directly to
this article, I think the thing recently, So it's the
like as a parent. You know, I have a daughter,
and I grew up with all boys in my family,
and I'm not panicked. I'm not super worried, but there
is a part of me that's like, well, I don't
want the world to look at my daughter this way.
(31:49):
I want the world to see her the way I
know she's going to see herself, which is the confident
She's already a confident Funny, you know she's going to
be a confident. Look, have you met her? She's in charge.
She's shy though, Yeah, she's going to be fine. Um,
you underestimate what the experience of being a woman for
(32:10):
like twenty years would do to your psyche. Okay, well
that's my you're right, that's my point. I'm talking about
her until like, because this is about ten year olds
to nineteen year olds where all of this change. Like,
I'm really excited about the next eight years for Maven,
and then what I'm scared of is all of this
(32:31):
happening to her, her not being valued for her her character,
her intelligence, her talents, and as a dad, not knowing
how to help her through that, um other than too
obviously my job is to recognize those things and support her.
(32:51):
But it's it's a vague fear because I don't I
don't really know how it's going to manifest because I
haven't experienced it. Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone
really knows until it's happening. It's just like a suddenly, suddenly,
some event will trigger something in you. Like I know
my friend whose kids are not white like they She'll
have her daughter get hit at school a couple of
(33:14):
times by the same kid, and she just feels like
they're not treating it with the same degree of attention
as they might if it's a white kid, and she
like it's There's a lot of situations like that where
like you can never prove that that's the way you're
being treated, but it's just gonna keep happening over time
to a certain degree where you're like, Okay, that's a
part of my experience that I have to deal with,
(33:35):
you know. Yeah, yeah, boy, This is this topic is
obviously a little older than than many of our our
our realm of influence. We've we've got a four and
a half year old, is as much as we've experienced. Um,
But I'd like to dip the toe into the the
future waters every once in a while. Wow, I've been
(33:58):
sick for two weeks. Can you hear it? My voice?
Awkward segment ending This next segment is called Listeners Want Knows,
where we take emails from our listeners. All right, we
(34:20):
got a bunch of fun emails today. Here's one. This
comes to us from if I could find it, Alana.
Alana says, so my son has started doing this thing.
And mind you, he is very uh, he is very
potty trained where he peas when he's not getting his way.
(34:43):
My husband calls it resistance peeing. The other day during
a visit to Target, when we were in the underwear
section picking out some new undis. Ironically, I pulled out
his options in his size and let him choose. I
failed by giving him a choice, right, he only wanted
the underwear that was three sizes too big. I'm an
idiot and tried to reason with him. And when he
(35:06):
wasn't getting his way, he looked at me defiantly and said,
very plainly, I pe, And sure enough pe was soak.
He threw his jeans and pulled up around his feet.
He went to the bathroom as soon as we got
to Targets, so I'm not even sure how this was possible.
He then proceeded to shout to everyone passing by to
(35:28):
watch out for his pee. Yesterday he was acting out
and he got a brief time out in his room
My husband went in there to check on him after
a minute or so, and he had taken out, taken
his pants off, and peed all over his bed, pillow,
stuffed animals, and rug. My husband just explained to him
that he needs to wear diapers if he's going to
(35:49):
do this, and promptly put a diaper on him. He
fully knows how to use the bathroom and does excellent
most of the time. He also peed next to the
toilet when I wouldn't let him take his stuff to
zebra in a tub. What the heck should we do?
A lot of Well, we have no idea. Kids are
so horrible. They're just like they're just trying to make
(36:13):
you feel horrible half the time. Maybe did this tonight
she peted on purpose. Well, she peed in the car
on the way to daycare because of the first time
she had no diaper in the car. And I think
that's what we got to get back to this kid. So,
this kid that's like an angry animal, like just like
throwing feces or something. I don't I don't know how
(36:36):
you deal with this because you have to try to
give it less power, but you can't like not clean
it up like you can't be like, oh, it's a
power move. You can't call their bluff on it, like, oh,
I don't care, cool, pee wherever you want. Like I've
realized it with Maybn, Like my instinct was to get
a little stern where I'm like, we can't pee in
our pants. But I'm like, she's gonna she now knows
(36:59):
that it's a power move. Well, I turned off all
the light. That's how I don't think it's going to be.
I don't know. Well, here's what happened. It was time
for bed and she's like no, And instead of arguing,
I just start turning out lights and then they start
naturally going to the room because it's only room with
the lights on, and she wasn't following. She goes and
(37:19):
I was in their room for a bit and she
started saying, not you what she says when she wants
me to go. It's been so bad about going to
bed this week. She's just like then I suddenly had
I heard her go. I was like, oh no, and
I went in there. I found her in the dark,
squatting down by the TV, peeing in her pants. When
I woke up from her nap yesterday, she was sleeping
(37:41):
on the floor next to the door with a bunch
of things she just pulled out of a drawer, like
all about her, Like she's just she doesn't know what
to do with this power of the bed still, and
she's I'm now scared after you've read this letter, that
you're going to create this situation in her and get
(38:03):
too stern about the peeing because right now she just
has no feelings towards peeing her pants, like she's just
like whatever, like she doesn't care one way or the other.
I'm so glad we got this email because I'm going
to put the brakes on it. And here's my advice
to you guys. I don't know if it's right like
(38:25):
everything I say, but I think yes, the less the
more you're able to not react to it. I try
to be calm in all my directives, and I'm just like, oh, um,
you know, we don't poop in our pull ups anymore.
We tell Mommy we have to go to the party,
or like, we don't um stick our finger in our poop,
(38:45):
like you just try to like calmly. Even that is treacherous.
I think it's more that like I'm going to stop them,
but I'm not going to comment on it. I'm not
going to negotiate. You know, if they pee on things,
I'm gonna clean it up, and I'm not going to
mention it because I think you can talk about it.
Like I try to give them information and be like,
oh wow, that's yucky. Now we're gonna have to clean
that up. Like it's not like full of judgment, but
(39:08):
I just want them to be like, let's try not
to do this anymore, you know, like tricky, but it
does validate. It validates it as a protest move. To
acknowledge that it's bad shows No, I'm not mad at them.
I'm not like treating them like they did it on purpose.
I'm just like, oh, hey, like you might want to know, like,
(39:30):
uh we get noise complaints. Uh so if you could
just cool, it's like, oh boy. But now when Brent
is upset, he stops because he knows that I don't
want him to. Yeah, but if you do disengage a
little sometimes he's sort of like, yeah, it takes away
the power. It is obviously better when you're not like
we don't do this. Yeah, when you're not already like
(39:50):
sleep deprived and had like eight things go wrong in
your week for no reason. Um, so we don't know,
like most things. But that's funny and terrible. This kid.
The thing about these kinds of kids, I'm always like
they're going to grow up to be incredibly successful, Like
(40:12):
do you know, just like the level of determination, Like
what power do I have in this moment? And utilize it?
All right? And the last thing we're gonna talk about
for our listeners on our Nose is not an email,
but we asked. We gave you some homework last week,
which was to tell us who you had pictured in
(40:33):
your head, very very self indulgently. Who you pictured in
your head when you heard our voice? It is if
you haven't seen our gorgeous pictures of our faces before. Uh?
And what was the first? Listeners said, Rob Delaney and
Kristen wigg And somebody immediately wrote in and said they
had always thought of me as that guy from Catastrophe,
(40:57):
who they then realized learned was Ob Delaney. Um, but
they they said that you Oh shoot, who did they
say you were? Well, we got some we got some
other ones. Uh. One listener said they thought it'd me
as Jim Gaffigan and you was Dakota Johnson. You know,
the classic pairing of Jim Gaffagan and Dakota Johnson. Honestly,
(41:21):
she's actually the way Hollywood would cast a movie, and
it makes no sense from fifty Shades of Gray. Yeah,
she's just like, oh, nice young daughter of an actress.
I mean, that's how I feel when I look at
us together. I'm gonna look how beautiful you are and
what you're telling jokes about sandwiches, and I'm quiet, beauty,
(41:49):
I don't have anything to say. Let me go get
some hot pockets. I'm going off my memory here. Somebody
said that was Brian Husky and you were Ali. Sheety
that that is all also funny pairing to imagine together.
But I that one feels pretty on point for you.
(42:10):
That's the That's one where I'm like, well, the guy
who said it was like, then I googled you and
I was like, he was like, I was pretty close,
Like you two would audition for the same commercials in
a world where he wasn't more successful than you. I
don't know. Maybe he does audition for commercials. I don't
but anyway, Alice, she I take as a compliment. I
feel like most of mine I'm like, are flattering? Yeah,
(42:33):
they're very flattering. Mine are? I guess mine are flattering?
In for comedies, things are talented people. This goes back
to our earlier discussion of women feeling valued because everyone
tried to give me, like an attractive comp and tried
to give you a funny comp So do you feel funny?
I did the same thought before, which is a lot
(42:56):
of these we heard and I was like, I liked them,
and I without thinking about it, I then realized the
thought that I had, which was I liked them because
I was like, oh, I respect these guys are funny guys,
and I'm so proud that people gave you attractive women.
And then I was like, oh God, is that the
thought I had? And I was like, that's bad. That's
(43:18):
the first thing to thanks to. You're like, oh, I'm
lucky for this attention. And then you're like, oh, no
one thinks I'm capable of anything. Cool. Yeah, I'm like
Ali sheety um, Actually don't she's in Breakfast Club. I
don't remember Dakota Johnson nothing about I'm like Christin wigg
There you go, She's super funny. So how do you feel?
(43:41):
Who do you picture? Yourself as who do you cast
yourself as? Death? I mean, I love the idea of
being like a Christen Wig Ali Sheety Combo. It's it's good.
I'd take Rob Rob Delaney. That guy is amazing and
he follows you on Twitter, doesn't he? Yeah, he does,
(44:01):
But I don't need to mention it. Just name dropped. Uh.
He's a nice guy. We have mutual friends with him. Um,
but he he's more sarcastic in Massachusetts than you are.
I have to say, yeah, I think the original person
who mentioned it was British, and you are like, she
(44:23):
doesn't know the difference. Other people also said it, and
I say, she doesn't know the difference. That was your
implication between what all this ust Yankees. We talked about
this exactly on the last podcast. Okay, well, thank you
for bringing it back up so we could just lay
it out there. Yeah, there it is again. There it
is again. Should we explain it one more time so
(44:45):
the Midwest part of the United States is different? No,
we shouldn't. Oh boy, that's been listeners. Wanna knows. This
has been another episode of We Knows parenting. If you
would like to reach out, send us some questions or
advice or some stories. You can email us at we
(45:08):
Knows Pod at gmail dot com, or check us out
on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we knows Pod or a website
we Knows Parenting dot com. Beth, what else? What's going on?
Check us out on Instagram and Twitter. I'm confusingly Beth
new on Twitter and Beth new Well without the second
(45:29):
e on Instagram. So boy, that's terrible. Uh you Well,
I'm just saying it's worth. It's worth searching Instagram for
Beth Newell if you want to see more videos of
our kids dancing and taking their butts at the camera. Yeah,
we got a lot of We had a lot more
of but dancing on their um our. Intro song is
(45:52):
written by mates Estate. Check them out. What else? Have
a great, have a great, very all it is. I
hope you don't lose your mind with all this retrograde
and December stuff happening. This retro grade. We love your baby,
Bye bye babies. M
Hello, and welcome to We Knows Parenting. This is Peter
McNerney with me always as Beth Newell, but not in
this moment, because as I edit this podcast, I realized, Um,
I accidentally lost the first ten seconds of the recording,
uh where there was a technical issue. So I'm rerecording
(00:33):
it because Beth is asleep like always and I'm not
gonna wake her up. Um, but we only lost ten seconds,
so I'm rerecording it now and we rejoined the real
recording on a very applicable topic. Now, Um, we just
had to pause for technical difficulties for a second, which
you guys won't hear, but I just have to say
it is the most mercury retrograde mercury retrograde of all time.
(00:58):
That moment me me needing to stop the recording to
adjust something was so mercury retrograde. Well, it's like technical difficulties, Like,
that's a classic mercury retrocra I find. I mean, besides,
you know, not believing in it at all. I find
it to be a little bit of a catch all
(01:22):
was a little too broad. But the frequency with which
we have had funk ups in the last week is
truly insane, and I have to tell our listeners what
the funniest one of all was, which is that you
accidentally ordered six boxes of six hand soaps each like
Miss Myers Pump hand soap. To be clear, that's we're
(01:45):
now the proud owners of thirty hands, as we gave
six away with our friends. But luckily we're not at
a living paycheck to paycheck moment in our lives because
we just spent a hundred and fifty are is on
hand soap. I the eas at which you can purchase
things on Amazon app is dangerous, but looking at the
(02:09):
amount you're paying for something I did not standard move
for ordering things on I want to buy in them,
like six bottles of soap. I'm not going to look
at the price because you already had purchased them, So
I'm like, this is close enough. I feel like this
is how your brain works. When you're checking out, You're like,
you see a container of six in the image for
the product, you think six, that's a good amount, and
(02:31):
then you type six into the bar and then you
hit check out and you don't read anything at all,
and then you confirm you gave me too much credit
because I did not read any words whatsoever. I scanned
the image of the bottle. You subconsciously saw an image
of six bottles because that's the amount in each box.
You know, that's not a terrible theory. But I scanned
(02:53):
the image of the bottle because you can do an
image search, and then there are a ton of options
in a different bunch of different I was gonna say
flavor verse, but since I was like, this one's close enough,
and then I was like, I don't want to do
this a bunch. I'll get a good number six. Probably
also solve the number six. And now we have thirty
six bottles, and so I'm trying to figure out a
(03:15):
place that we could donate these, like a church or
shelter or something, because I feel like soap is a
very useful item. I just like, we don't It's December,
and I don't want to be thinking about this or
doing it. Don't think about it. It's a way in
the closet. There's room for it. Now. We don't have
to goddamn soap for half a year. I don't want
to store two years of hand soap that we're going
(03:36):
to burn through that hand soap so fast. So you're
really oversked. I'm gonna be so liberal with how much
soap I use, then we're going to be moving. We're
gonna have to move with like fifteen bottles of soap
at some point. Not gonna move before we use all
that hand soap. Wow, I mean, listeners, place your bets.
Are we going to move? I want to hear it.
(03:57):
I'm going to if I have time and energy, unload
these bottles on a worthy cause because it is insane
to store so many bottles so um. You're never going
to do that, and it fits very nicely into our closet,
and I stand by the choice anyway. Other Mercury tricod stuff.
We had potty training with a like a pretty decent
(04:17):
amount of pee pants, but nothing dramatic, but only at home, well,
and in the car. Yes, in the car. She'd actually
did p on herself three times today, but none of
those times were daycare because at daycare they're great. They
put her on the toilet once an hour, and then
she gets home and I'm like, I'll do it at
some point. We're not that good. We don't have a
(04:41):
great routine at home, but at daycare they're doing it
for us. That's a trick leave them at daycare for
far more hours than most parents do. And the best
parenting trick is just have plenty of money to have
other people watch your kids. Uh. Yeah, we're just and
in it. I'm just saying. But I will say we
(05:03):
had a week off of daycare and so we did
a like a fake daycare at one of the women
who works there his house. I think we kind of
got into this. We got into but she was the
one that was like, can I potty train Mayven this week?
And we were like, okay, yeah, and she did a
great job. And then every time we went to pick
Brin up from that location or drop him off, he
(05:24):
was insane and you almost lost your mind. We'll talk
about this already, Okay, So I think we recorded right
after the first day last week where I had a
big old rant. Yeah, and you picked him up by
his jacket. It got so much worse after that. I
want to talk about one of the most shameful you're
just tuning in as I'm What I was saying is
(05:45):
that last week my husband got so mad that he
picked her four year old up by his jacket, and
then the week got worse. Yeah, So I got he
would not walk, He wouldn't do any I was like
trying to be so patient and we're running late and
I have to go to an audition and he won't walk,
and I'm like, okay, we have this talk. It's the
(06:07):
next day. The details don't matter, but all you need
to know is that I reached a really low point
and I am ashamed of myself because I tried every
tactic to get him to walk, and we're may even
won't walk. She's little, she's crying. I have to pick
her up. Then Brin won't walk. I'm trying to like
bribe him. I just immediately throw all my good tactics
(06:28):
out the window and then I start bribing, and then
I put her down and I pick him up, admittedly
way too forcefully. I'm not he's not in any danger.
I'm not hurting him. But it's scary you're actively trying
to terrify your son. I'm just full of rage, and
I haven't really close to my face, and I do
that sort of like whisper yelling, and I'm like, sure
(06:49):
me can me walk? And and he just of course
is now terrified and burst into tears, and I get
him in the car and we have a silent drive
to daycare, and I calmed down, and of course I
feel terrible, and I'm like, I'm a bad dad, and
I'm like, I'm like, so, I'm sorry, Brandon, are you
ready to get out of the car, ready to walk?
And he looks at me and he's still defiant and
(07:11):
he's go mmmmmmm. And I was like well, and it
all came raging back, and I had to pick up
both of them, and I had to carry both of them,
which is sixty pounds at least more than that, and
ended bag. And I had to carry all the food
because we picked one day where we got food for
all the kids, so I'm carrying over a hundred pounds.
(07:34):
And then no, here's the worst moment. I threatened if
Bren didn't walk once we got there, that I was
going to go home and throw away all of his toys.
And he looked at me with such horror and terror,
and in my mind, I was like, I can't back
that up. I'm not going to do that. That was
just the cruelest thing that I've ever done. And I
(07:55):
left still mad, and I've never done that. And I
got in my car and I cried, Okay, can I
talk a little bit on the um. So when I
was picking him up, he was still pretty difficult, but
not quite that difficult because I think some of it
his anger was specifically tied to you, um and so
(08:16):
he oh. So the first thing I picked him up,
I get we're outside of the place where he's being
watched this week, and he he's like hiding in a
corner and I like pretended to think you walk away,
And then I come back and he's picked up a
can of solvent that he found on the ground, and
I'm like no, And then as I'm saying this, he
(08:37):
hits spray. Luckily it goes away from him. Solvent on
the sidewalk. No, it was in the driveway. It's like,
clearly someone who lives downstairs or in the house or
whatever they're like is has stores and stuff or whatever,
but it's just like laying there and so our son
now probably has like a little a light residue of
(08:58):
solvent on him. But I'm just so like tense already.
I'm like, we gotta get them home, like I just
so I give them their bribery. Oreos, he's not washed
his hands, and I smelled his hands and they were
like okay. So I was like, I guess he's not
covered in solving. We've all got a lot of toxic
things in our body, so he's eating oreos probably like
(09:20):
licking solving off his fingers. Uh we get home, okay.
He like, Uh. One of these nights I had, I
was like building on your thing and trying to scare
him out of the car, and I was like, well,
I guess you can stay outside here where you know
there's wolves and things. And it's like I'm gonna go.
(09:41):
I'm going inside with Mayven. He's like, there's not wolves,
and I was like, yeah, well, I don't know, maybe
some people come back whatever. Like I was just trying
to like make it sound lightly scary, and that kind
of scared him in. And then the next night when
we were coming, when I was picking him up from
the digger place, he was like being so annoying and
trying to walk into like leeways and things, and like
(10:02):
he I saw this postman coming towards us and he
had these like red like like laser like flashlights on
his head so that he could look down at the
mail because it was getting dark and from a distance,
it looked like evil red eyes and I was like, oh, Brian,
oh here comes like laser eyes or something. Everyone I said,
(10:24):
but Brian saw it and he was like just like
a little bit spooked and he started walking faster. So
it was a lot of like tricks. Yeah, it was like,
none of this is good. Any of you listening. These
are not good things to do. I've made him afraid
of the dark because I did that tactic too. I
was like, what if people come by and you're all
(10:44):
alone and I just left the car door open and
make all fairy tales makes sense because you're like, the
alternative is my kid literally walks into traffic or walks
into the forest and the woods little Germans fourteenth century
child be eaten by a troll. That's what That's what
we did. We grim fairytaled our kids. We did, and
(11:04):
I'm standing by. I felt a lot of shame, But
you know what, he's all amped up because of this
daycare situation in a new place. It's a new place.
He's all excited. And then that energy traveled into Saturday,
which is when we agreed to do the longest play
date of all time, um, which is not we're not
mad about this. We're just like, it couldn't all of this.
(11:28):
It was a confluence of unfortunate events. Basically, yeah, we
we had we had some friends in like clearly a
tight spot this weekend. So we took their four year
old for eight hours and they were just they were
just trying to go to work, which is like the grind.
We very much empathize with the like we're going to
ask you to do the same thing. I was so
excited when they they didn't ask us to like any babysitters,
(11:50):
were like, we'll take him, and I was like, we're
going to need that. It's really good because even if
we only use them for like three hours. Now, I'm
still like, well, this is the second time we've watched
their kid, and it was like so long. So now
it's like when you ask me for a favor where
you're like I'm going to be gone for a week
and I'm like, great, now I can ask for one
thing that's like just for me. Yeah, So we had
(12:11):
their kids, and then of course Mercury retrograde. You get
a Saturday audition, which is not normal happens once a year. Yeah,
you get a Saturday audition. So I'm like, great, now
I have to be home in the middle of the
day with three kids in a two bedroom apartment. I
can't take them outside because they'll all sprint towards traffic immediately.
So we're just cooped up in here, and I like,
(12:34):
I planned decorating cookies with them, keep them focused. But
they were Britain and his friend had been together all
week in this new environment, probably fighting over toys and
things the whole week, in like even smaller space than
there used to and so I was like, there's like
true best friends. They fight real hard and then they
(12:55):
and then they're like you're my best friend and they're
hugging each other. There really are four year olds. So
some hours they were like fine, and I was glad
I had planned the cookie decorating because they were really
cheerful after that for at least a solid hour, whereas
like a lot of the day, well no, but they're
just like happy, I think. I mean, it wasn't just
the sugar, which is good, but they um so much
(13:18):
of the day was just like print being bossy for
no reason and like getting mad and like storming off
and then banging something for attention. And like it was
just like but like, his friend is so patient with him,
and then by the end of the day, his friend
was just like clearly so fed up and starting to
get sensitive. And they both do it and then they're
both so sweet and then they're both like yeah, but
(13:40):
his friend is just slightly more mature, like he's a
older he's like just a little more emotionally mature, and
he's like he knows to be patient about certain things
like that happened that so Brit was being super bossy
and he was like, he's like, you don't You're not
always said you're not allowed to think. Don't think. His
(14:02):
friend was like I want to think, and he's like, no,
you can't think. It's one of these like great arguments.
And then I'm listening to this in the kitchen. I
was like, this is this is dumb argument, even for
four year olds. And then I hear and tears and
I come in and Britt's friend runs into the corner
behind the chairs and he hides in the ball. I'm like,
(14:23):
what happened? And he like he's like hiding, Like if
you if I don't see him, he like he's not
being seen. And I go and I see Brannan's crying,
and clearly his friend was like, I'm not putting up
with his argument and pushed Brent over and and my
thought was like, Brant needs someone to push him down. Yeah,
his friend is much more physical than him, which I
(14:44):
think is weirdly a good thing for him to be around,
even though it does it does kind of make him
jump around more, which is like just something you don't
love him doing when you have people living underneath you.
I'm so stressed about the stomping. Yeah, I mean, but
in the end that multiple times I saw them just
hug each other and say you're my best friend. Yeah.
(15:07):
They had a lot of fun. And even when they
were in this huge fight when his friend was leaving
and they were both kind of yelling at each other
and his friend wanted to tell him something and he
wouldn't let him and he's like, I'm not going to
listen and you like whatever, and his friend didn't want
to leave until he was able to tell him, and
they're both getting so upset, and it's like so getting
so late, it's like almost bed time, and so they're
(15:27):
both just like fighting about nothing. And as soon as
Brin's friend was leaving Britain was like simultaneously arguing me
about like not liking him and being not being his
friend anymore, but also not wanting him to leave and
not wanting he kept wanting assurance that they were going
to hang out again tomorrow or something. It was just
like they're simultaneously like we hate and love each other,
(15:49):
so don't go, don't go, You're not my friend anymore.
Why they threaten each other with not being friends anymore?
That's a big So I want to tark about one
more thing, which was body parts. So maybe has been
really naked. She was naked all weekend because the body training,
and she was naked for like the entirety of that
(16:09):
plate age. She loved. She was confin playing with these two,
the two big kids, and uh, anyway, so I was
changing her and I don't know how this came up,
but Brian started talking about as wiener and he was like,
he's like, look, I don't know how it came up,
but somehow it also was Maven doesn't have a wiener.
(16:32):
I was like, yeah, girls, girls don't have and it's
like girls don't have penises. Uh, he goes, yeah, Maven
doesn't girls don't have wieners. They just have butts. And
he also said like, yeah, when I was born, I
didn't have a wiener. I just had a butt, and
now I have one. I was like, well, we're gonna
unpack that later. I was like well, and I was like,
(16:55):
this is the time we're gonna be honest about language.
And I was like, well, girls don't have wieners, they
have vaginas. I think it was a word. And then
either one of them has ever heard and so I
was like, my gas, it's just like something wrong. And
I was like no, He's like, no, they just have butts.
And I sort of explained that there's a difference, and
(17:18):
then uh, and then maybe was trying to say vagina
and it just came out. She at one point just
said I have a giant butt. I was like, as
far as they're concerned, yeah, girls don't have penises. They
just have a giant butt. We do. We just have
a giant but it could be more wrong. Well, can
(17:40):
we also talk about Brendon calling his his pecks body cheeks? Yes,
because you were explaining something to him right about cheeks
and butt cheeks. Yeah, we're talking about they came out
of that conversation. We're talking about cheeks and I was like,
butt cheeks something that he's his butt hurt. I was like,
in your butt? He goes my butt and I was like,
(18:01):
let's talk about butt cheeks, like you have to explain
to my chest and he goes he goes these my
body cheeks and then that I said, well, no, those
are those are your nipples? Have you start talking about nipples?
He's like, maybe have nipples. I was like yep. It
was like do you have nipples? And like yep, And
(18:23):
then he goes does and then he named one of
the women at daycare because does she have nipples? And
I was like, this is a dangerous game we're playing.
And I was like, I'm going to change the subject
right now. So unsettling. He's just gonna start asking everyone
about their nipples. Luckily, he forgot the word for nipples
and he just calls them body cheeks. They should be
(18:43):
called body cheeks. I mean, let's start that up. Everyone
tell your kids body cheeks. You think about it, Women
do have one big butt, but we also have a body.
But this next segment is called did you Knows? It's
(19:05):
where we share some parenting related information we've probably found online.
We did find it online. Uh. This was from the
New York Times. This is a really fascinating article from
a while back. Um, here's the gist of it. Um,
So that this was a study done with current teenagers
(19:25):
aged I think ten to nineteen, and it was about
sort of how they see gender expectations today. And there's
clearly been some changes in the UH in recent times
and some things that have not changed. And here's I'm
gonna jump around a bit to give you the gist
of it. Uh. These are findings from a new nationally
(19:51):
nationally representative poll of a thousand children and adolescents from
age ten to nineteen, along with other research on this
age group. Girls were as likely as boys to say
math or science was their favorite subject and to have
considered running for office, which is a change in attitudes
from from recent generations. And they said they were mostly
(20:13):
treated fairly compared with boys, and that's a positive change.
Yet when it came to their bodies, girls said they
did not feel equal. About three quarters of girls fourteen
to nineteen in the survey said they felt judged as
a sexual object or unsafe as a girl by far.
They said society considered physical attractiveness to be the most
(20:35):
important female trait, a view that adult women share. Surveys
have found girls were also more likely than boys to
say that they felt a lot of pressure to put
others feelings before their own. This is a contradiction we
put in front of girls. You should be confident and
do well in school and do athletics, but you're supposed
to also be a good sex object. At the same time,
(20:57):
boys said strength and toughness were the male characteristic character
traits that were most valued by society. Three quarters said
they felt pressure to be physically strong, and a majority
felt pressure to play sports. Asked what society expects boys
to do when they feel angry, the largest shares said
(21:17):
they were supposed to be aggressive or be quiet and
suck it up. When they felt sad or scared, they
felt pressure to hide those feelings or be tough and strong. Instead,
girls whore we are able to express themselves by crying
or screaming or talking about their feelings. UM Boys said
that these qualities the qualities they valued most in themselves
(21:38):
were ambition and intelligence, but they were deeply aware that
society valued male strength. UM There's a lot more to
that article was really fascinating, But the big takeaway that
thought was fascinating is that is that girls see themselves.
The biggest change in the past and you know generation
(21:59):
is girls see themselves. They value themselves, their strength, their intelligence,
their leadership skills more than they ever have before, but
still feel that society values them for yeah, they're attractive. Well,
I would, I would argue that a lot of those biases.
I mean, you you feel it more strongly as you
(22:21):
get older, and I think nothing makes you feel it
as strongly as entering the workforce and trying to be
seen as on par with other people in terms of
how much money you're getting, in the amount of like
control you're allowed on your work, and like, you know,
the kinds of opportunities you're getting. It's just like so
I think, what that's what worries me in terms of
(22:43):
like women, young girls getting more confident, is I feel
like they've said a similar thing about my generation, which
is like nineties, like like girl power was coming into
play and like you didn't. My perception growing up was
not that I had it any harder as a girl.
It's only when I got out into the world and
(23:03):
tried to do things that I felt like I was
being held back because the public school system does kind
of favor girls that like much better than the rest
of the world does. Um, And you can get good
grades and feel like you're accomplishing something, and then you
come out of that and you're like, oh, the rules
(23:24):
don't apply anymore. Yeah, that's really interesting. And there's one
more little bit too best that I'm going to read
um because that's the big This is one of those
articles whe I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense to me,
but I had never articulated it quite this way of
just that like, oh, it's it's one thing to value yourself,
(23:47):
but if the world is still seeing you as this
one thing, what do you do about that? But some
like there's a positive ending to this article in terms
of sort of the moment we're in, the me too
era for lack of a better name, is just that
getting mostly men but all people to just suddenly be
(24:11):
more aware of what it is like to be in
that position. So I'm gonna read a little bit here.
There's some signs that recent movements to end sexual harassment
might be influencing teenagers attitudes and the survey, three quarters
of adolescence have heard of me. To a majority of
girls and one third of boys say it has made
(24:32):
them feel able to tell someone that they were harassed
or assaulted. I have more of an ability um that
if they did, have more of an ability that if
they did happen to me, said one girl thirteen. There's
not a chance of me being quiet about it. And
the thing in there that struck me is I can't imagine.
(24:53):
So when I was thirteen, you know, I was certainly
being taught equality matters and that men and women should
be treated equally, but the sort of finer points of
how women are treated differently and sort of what's in
this article was never really explained to me, and I
(25:16):
certainly didn't fully understand how it affects people. Well, I
think that's what I think is so cool about a
lot of these movements is like the you know, like
the these this next generation of kids has such a
much more sophisticated idea of like gender fluidity, and they're
just around it more. And I can feel it, like
the cultural moment that some of these discussions are having,
(25:39):
Like I can feel it rubbing off on me where
like I'm growing as the thirty three year old, and
I can only imagine if I was exposed to these
ideas at a young age. Um. I mean it's like
with the you know, the trans movement and I think
the body positivity movement, and it's like these these things,
(25:59):
we receive them too improve one group of people, but
they actually affect us all and start rubbing up on
all of us and helping us grow. And what you
were saying about the boys feeling pressure to subvert their feelings, like,
I feel like that's like another thing that's being dealt
with right now when people are starting to talk more
about domestic violence and shootings and like where does this
(26:21):
come from? Like why are these men so bottled up?
You know, Well, it's he can't you know. It's a
lot of these topics create sort of unarticulated and unexamined
quote unquote icky feelings, and like the beginning of changing
your attitude and perception of the world is recognizing that
(26:45):
you feel icky about things and why is that? To
push through it? But like I remember that in my lifetime, well,
thinking about not knowing any gay people, you know, being
younger and and admittedly having that feeling of like, oh,
being gay, that's like, oh, that that's sort of is
(27:07):
like an icky idea until you know, you know, this
was when I was younger, and then you actually get
to no gay people and suddenly like that idea is
completely gone from my brain and it had forgotten that
in my lifetime. That has changed even within me, do
you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean I was
(27:29):
right on the cusp of that where I feel like
we kids when I was growing up would use the
word gay as like a joke to make fun of people,
but there was actually like no real meaning attached in
the way that we understood it at that age. It
was just sort of like calling someone stupid, you know
what I mean. And then by the time I was
able to perceive of gay people as an actual thing
(27:52):
aside from just an insult, I it was it was
like around the exact same time that they were starting
to become part of pop culture with the thing like
Ellen and will E Grace and stuff. So in my
mind it was always an okay thing, and only in
the process of being supposed to those things that I
find out that people in my family didn't think they
were okay and but then within years of that, everyone
(28:15):
in my family, partially by virtue of having like multiple
gay grandkids, they were like, oh no, we're we don't
care about that anymore. Yeah, I mean that's the I
think this is the difference in age and us, like
we're two years apart, and like between me and my
older brothers that I think I got a little bit
more of a taste of that, Like, oh, I theoretically
(28:37):
think that's fine, but in my brain I'm like, oh,
but but it's still crazy. You know. I never said that,
but I think that feeling existed in me, and it's
now obviously totally completely gone and has been for a
very very very long time, but that feeling still. I
bring it up because that's what a lot of people
are dealing with right now in terms of like, uh,
(28:59):
you know, gender nonconforming or transgender people where they haven't
they don't really know people and it's not normalized, and
so they're still just in there like that feels icky
to me or I don't get it. But also in
just gender norms in terms of like what a boy
should be and what a girl should be, and when
you veer outside of that, there's this just instinctual. This this,
(29:22):
this feels icky. I don't want to I don't want
to examine my own feelings. So I'm just going to
reject it and move on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,
I mean I'm talking to myself. I don't know what
I'll say is uh. I feel very grateful to have
grown up in a time where it didn't really even
(29:42):
occur to me that being gay was a problem until
until like people were barely bringing it up, um. And
I especially feel grateful for that given that I had
two gay siblings. It was just like there was never
a moment where I had to sort of reconcile my
beliefs around that or pick a side, Like it was
just not a thing I experience. And that's what I
(30:03):
think is so exciting about these young kids now who
will just be exposed to trans people and non binary
people and like they will just have such a like
a wealth of representation that we didn't have. And I mean,
I think there's still a ton of room for representation
in a lot of areas to grow, but what they're
(30:26):
getting is already so much more than what we got,
and that's really exciting. Yeah, And that's the thing you know,
and and I'm sure there's plenty of UM people out there,
people listening who who are not exposed to UM, not
just transgender people. But that's that like don't have a face,
(30:46):
a personal connection with somebody to attach to these things
and are probably struggling with their feelings about it because
it's an abstract thing. So we create these characters in
our head. Yeah. I mean, that's another thing I feel
like about living in New York is when I was
a freshman in college, i met a trans person, and
then I've met multiple in the years since, and I
(31:07):
just it's once you meet someone, it's clearly like not
a big deal. They're just like a person trying to
live their life, you know what I mean. Once you
have a face to it and it's like a nice,
normal person, you're like, oh, what, like yeah, it's yeah yeah. Um. Well,
(31:27):
to bring it back a little bit more directly to
this article, I think the thing recently, So it's the
like as a parent. You know, I have a daughter,
and I grew up with all boys in my family,
and I'm not panicked. I'm not super worried, but there
is a part of me that's like, well, I don't
want the world to look at my daughter this way.
(31:49):
I want the world to see her the way I
know she's going to see herself, which is the confident
She's already a confident Funny, you know she's going to
be a confident. Look, have you met her? She's in charge.
She's shy though, Yeah, she's going to be fine. Um,
you underestimate what the experience of being a woman for
(32:10):
like twenty years would do to your psyche. Okay, well
that's my you're right, that's my point. I'm talking about
her until like, because this is about ten year olds
to nineteen year olds where all of this change. Like,
I'm really excited about the next eight years for Maven,
and then what I'm scared of is all of this
(32:31):
happening to her, her not being valued for her her character,
her intelligence, her talents, and as a dad, not knowing
how to help her through that, um other than too
obviously my job is to recognize those things and support her.
(32:51):
But it's it's a vague fear because I don't I
don't really know how it's going to manifest because I
haven't experienced it. Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone
really knows until it's happening. It's just like a suddenly, suddenly,
some event will trigger something in you. Like I know
my friend whose kids are not white like they She'll
have her daughter get hit at school a couple of
(33:14):
times by the same kid, and she just feels like
they're not treating it with the same degree of attention
as they might if it's a white kid, and she
like it's There's a lot of situations like that where
like you can never prove that that's the way you're
being treated, but it's just gonna keep happening over time
to a certain degree where you're like, Okay, that's a
part of my experience that I have to deal with,
(33:35):
you know. Yeah, yeah, boy, This is this topic is
obviously a little older than than many of our our
our realm of influence. We've we've got a four and
a half year old, is as much as we've experienced. Um,
But I'd like to dip the toe into the the
future waters every once in a while. Wow, I've been
(33:58):
sick for two weeks. Can you hear it? My voice?
Awkward segment ending This next segment is called Listeners Want Knows,
where we take emails from our listeners. All right, we
(34:20):
got a bunch of fun emails today. Here's one. This
comes to us from if I could find it, Alana.
Alana says, so my son has started doing this thing.
And mind you, he is very uh, he is very
potty trained where he peas when he's not getting his way.
(34:43):
My husband calls it resistance peeing. The other day during
a visit to Target, when we were in the underwear
section picking out some new undis. Ironically, I pulled out
his options in his size and let him choose. I
failed by giving him a choice, right, he only wanted
the underwear that was three sizes too big. I'm an
idiot and tried to reason with him. And when he
(35:06):
wasn't getting his way, he looked at me defiantly and said,
very plainly, I pe, And sure enough pe was soak.
He threw his jeans and pulled up around his feet.
He went to the bathroom as soon as we got
to Targets, so I'm not even sure how this was possible.
He then proceeded to shout to everyone passing by to
(35:28):
watch out for his pee. Yesterday he was acting out
and he got a brief time out in his room
My husband went in there to check on him after
a minute or so, and he had taken out, taken
his pants off, and peed all over his bed, pillow,
stuffed animals, and rug. My husband just explained to him
that he needs to wear diapers if he's going to
(35:49):
do this, and promptly put a diaper on him. He
fully knows how to use the bathroom and does excellent
most of the time. He also peed next to the
toilet when I wouldn't let him take his stuff to
zebra in a tub. What the heck should we do?
A lot of Well, we have no idea. Kids are
so horrible. They're just like they're just trying to make
(36:13):
you feel horrible half the time. Maybe did this tonight
she peted on purpose. Well, she peed in the car
on the way to daycare because of the first time
she had no diaper in the car. And I think
that's what we got to get back to this kid. So,
this kid that's like an angry animal, like just like
throwing feces or something. I don't I don't know how
(36:36):
you deal with this because you have to try to
give it less power, but you can't like not clean
it up like you can't be like, oh, it's a
power move. You can't call their bluff on it, like, oh,
I don't care, cool, pee wherever you want. Like I've
realized it with Maybn, Like my instinct was to get
a little stern where I'm like, we can't pee in
our pants. But I'm like, she's gonna she now knows
(36:59):
that it's a power move. Well, I turned off all
the light. That's how I don't think it's going to be.
I don't know. Well, here's what happened. It was time
for bed and she's like no, And instead of arguing,
I just start turning out lights and then they start
naturally going to the room because it's only room with
the lights on, and she wasn't following. She goes and
(37:19):
I was in their room for a bit and she
started saying, not you what she says when she wants
me to go. It's been so bad about going to
bed this week. She's just like then I suddenly had
I heard her go. I was like, oh no, and
I went in there. I found her in the dark,
squatting down by the TV, peeing in her pants. When
I woke up from her nap yesterday, she was sleeping
(37:41):
on the floor next to the door with a bunch
of things she just pulled out of a drawer, like
all about her, Like she's just she doesn't know what
to do with this power of the bed still, and
she's I'm now scared after you've read this letter, that
you're going to create this situation in her and get
(38:03):
too stern about the peeing because right now she just
has no feelings towards peeing her pants, like she's just
like whatever, like she doesn't care one way or the other.
I'm so glad we got this email because I'm going
to put the brakes on it. And here's my advice
to you guys. I don't know if it's right like
(38:25):
everything I say, but I think yes, the less the
more you're able to not react to it. I try
to be calm in all my directives, and I'm just like, oh, um,
you know, we don't poop in our pull ups anymore.
We tell Mommy we have to go to the party,
or like, we don't um stick our finger in our poop,
(38:45):
like you just try to like calmly. Even that is treacherous.
I think it's more that like I'm going to stop them,
but I'm not going to comment on it. I'm not
going to negotiate. You know, if they pee on things,
I'm gonna clean it up, and I'm not going to
mention it because I think you can talk about it.
Like I try to give them information and be like,
oh wow, that's yucky. Now we're gonna have to clean
that up. Like it's not like full of judgment, but
(39:08):
I just want them to be like, let's try not
to do this anymore, you know, like tricky, but it
does validate. It validates it as a protest move. To
acknowledge that it's bad shows No, I'm not mad at them.
I'm not like treating them like they did it on purpose.
I'm just like, oh, hey, like you might want to know, like,
(39:30):
uh we get noise complaints. Uh so if you could
just cool, it's like, oh boy. But now when Brent
is upset, he stops because he knows that I don't
want him to. Yeah, but if you do disengage a
little sometimes he's sort of like, yeah, it takes away
the power. It is obviously better when you're not like
we don't do this. Yeah, when you're not already like
(39:50):
sleep deprived and had like eight things go wrong in
your week for no reason. Um, so we don't know,
like most things. But that's funny and terrible. This kid.
The thing about these kinds of kids, I'm always like
they're going to grow up to be incredibly successful, Like
(40:12):
do you know, just like the level of determination, Like
what power do I have in this moment? And utilize it?
All right? And the last thing we're gonna talk about
for our listeners on our Nose is not an email,
but we asked. We gave you some homework last week,
which was to tell us who you had pictured in
(40:33):
your head, very very self indulgently. Who you pictured in
your head when you heard our voice? It is if
you haven't seen our gorgeous pictures of our faces before. Uh?
And what was the first? Listeners said, Rob Delaney and
Kristen wigg And somebody immediately wrote in and said they
had always thought of me as that guy from Catastrophe,
(40:57):
who they then realized learned was Ob Delaney. Um, but
they they said that you Oh shoot, who did they
say you were? Well, we got some we got some
other ones. Uh. One listener said they thought it'd me
as Jim Gaffigan and you was Dakota Johnson. You know,
the classic pairing of Jim Gaffagan and Dakota Johnson. Honestly,
(41:21):
she's actually the way Hollywood would cast a movie, and
it makes no sense from fifty Shades of Gray. Yeah,
she's just like, oh, nice young daughter of an actress.
I mean, that's how I feel when I look at
us together. I'm gonna look how beautiful you are and
what you're telling jokes about sandwiches, and I'm quiet, beauty,
(41:49):
I don't have anything to say. Let me go get
some hot pockets. I'm going off my memory here. Somebody
said that was Brian Husky and you were Ali. Sheety
that that is all also funny pairing to imagine together.
But I that one feels pretty on point for you.
(42:10):
That's the That's one where I'm like, well, the guy
who said it was like, then I googled you and
I was like, he was like, I was pretty close,
Like you two would audition for the same commercials in
a world where he wasn't more successful than you. I
don't know. Maybe he does audition for commercials. I don't
but anyway, Alice, she I take as a compliment. I
feel like most of mine I'm like, are flattering? Yeah,
(42:33):
they're very flattering. Mine are? I guess mine are flattering?
In for comedies, things are talented people. This goes back
to our earlier discussion of women feeling valued because everyone
tried to give me, like an attractive comp and tried
to give you a funny comp So do you feel funny?
I did the same thought before, which is a lot
(42:56):
of these we heard and I was like, I liked them,
and I without thinking about it, I then realized the
thought that I had, which was I liked them because
I was like, oh, I respect these guys are funny guys,
and I'm so proud that people gave you attractive women.
And then I was like, oh God, is that the
thought I had? And I was like, that's bad. That's
(43:18):
the first thing to thanks to. You're like, oh, I'm
lucky for this attention. And then you're like, oh, no
one thinks I'm capable of anything. Cool. Yeah, I'm like
Ali sheety um, Actually don't she's in Breakfast Club. I
don't remember Dakota Johnson nothing about I'm like Christin wigg
There you go, She's super funny. So how do you feel?
(43:41):
Who do you picture? Yourself as who do you cast
yourself as? Death? I mean, I love the idea of
being like a Christen Wig Ali Sheety Combo. It's it's good.
I'd take Rob Rob Delaney. That guy is amazing and
he follows you on Twitter, doesn't he? Yeah, he does,
(44:01):
But I don't need to mention it. Just name dropped. Uh.
He's a nice guy. We have mutual friends with him. Um,
but he he's more sarcastic in Massachusetts than you are.
I have to say, yeah, I think the original person
who mentioned it was British, and you are like, she
(44:23):
doesn't know the difference. Other people also said it, and
I say, she doesn't know the difference. That was your
implication between what all this ust Yankees. We talked about
this exactly on the last podcast. Okay, well, thank you
for bringing it back up so we could just lay
it out there. Yeah, there it is again. There it
is again. Should we explain it one more time so
(44:45):
the Midwest part of the United States is different? No,
we shouldn't. Oh boy, that's been listeners. Wanna knows. This
has been another episode of We Knows parenting. If you
would like to reach out, send us some questions or
advice or some stories. You can email us at we
(45:08):
Knows Pod at gmail dot com, or check us out
on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we knows Pod or a website
we Knows Parenting dot com. Beth, what else? What's going on?
Check us out on Instagram and Twitter. I'm confusingly Beth
new on Twitter and Beth new Well without the second
(45:29):
e on Instagram. So boy, that's terrible. Uh you Well,
I'm just saying it's worth. It's worth searching Instagram for
Beth Newell if you want to see more videos of
our kids dancing and taking their butts at the camera. Yeah,
we got a lot of We had a lot more
of but dancing on their um our. Intro song is
(45:52):
written by mates Estate. Check them out. What else? Have
a great, have a great, very all it is. I
hope you don't lose your mind with all this retrograde
and December stuff happening. This retro grade. We love your baby,
Bye bye babies. M
We Knows Parenting News
Hosts And Creators
Beth Newell
Peter McNerney
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