December 11, 2018 • 49 mins
Peter and Beth start the podcast by sharing something intimate – too intimate maybe – and Peter regrets it. Now that Bryn has started to cooperate more, Maeven has decided that it’s her turn to make everything difficult for no reason by objecting to all things always (expect for potty training which she is nailing). Peter and Beth then discuss some listener mail about the difference between abusive parents and parents that simply scream too much, and how to explain anatomy to your kids without reinforcing a strictly binary view of gender. Then Beth knitpicks another Would You Knows scenario about time travel.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello, welcome to We Know His Parenting. I'm Beth Nowell.
I'm Peter McNerney, and this is parenting podcast. It sure
is if you were expecting something else, tough luck. I
feel like we just get better and better at the
intro as we go, are less worried about getting it right.
(00:35):
Um anyway, um, catching up since last week's new Um,
we just had sex, um, which is something I'm not
comfortable sharing. And uh, if you're our parents, just we're
not going to talk about it. I just want to
acknowledge it as a thing. That's one of the one
things I'm afraid to talk about on this podcast, but
(00:57):
just as a thing to do before recording. I gotta say,
feeling pretty relaxed, maybe I won't interrupt you so much.
You're You're he'll be significantly calmer than usual. I'm now
very embarrassed. I feel like you're going to delete this later. No,
(01:18):
I don't have time. I gotta get it on a
plane and like this anyway, that's what we've been up to. UM. Yeah,
you know, we should have recorded this an hour ago,
but we decided to strengthen our bond as a marriage instead.
Did I stand by that choice. Are there anything else
you wanted to say about I've already said too much.
(01:39):
The funny thing is, I think you're more uncomfortable with
this being discussed on the podcast than I am, but
you just keep Yeah. It's I It's like, you know,
when when Bryn knows he's doing something wrong, he has
something he shouldn't, he'll like weirdly sneak towards you to
see if you're checking on him, and it just gives
him away. I sit down and I'm like, boy, I
(02:02):
don't want to say the thing in my head. And
then that's interesting gonna say. Doesn't that make you comfortable
knowing that I can't lie to you? I mean you
can lie to me in the sense that you don't
always think about the words you're saying until they come
out of your mouth, and they're just like exaggerations of
(02:22):
the truth. Yeah, but anything truly deceitful. I can't. I
can't hold on to that. What has happened this week?
Maven's potty trained? Can we say that? Yeah? I mean
when I picture up the other day she'd had two
accidents at daycare in the same day, but none the
(02:43):
rest of the week, and today she were underwear for
the first so we did. We had to go commando
last week because underwear, uh, it gives kids a false salve,
false false sense of security, like it feels like a diaper.
First started doing it, we went naked, and then pants,
no underwear, and today she went underwear pants, and she
(03:05):
had her perfect day. Well what else over the weekend
when she was doing was she would like pee a
little bit in her underwear, which is, depending on the moment,
was sort of more than a little bit. And then
she would like be like oh no, oh no, and
then she'd like go sit on the body and pee
and we had to clean her up. But she's good.
(03:27):
It's a step in the right direction. I think she's recognizing,
oh I shouldn't. This is not good idea. Yeah, I
won't want to pee all over myself. But she doesn't
really understand what's happening. So she's like how owow, and
I'm like, no, you just don't like having wet pants.
Does face when she gets bow legged and she goes
She did that when I had put a diper on
(03:48):
her because I was trying to get her to nap
or something, and she started doing that bow legged walk.
Like she as if it's like it was like an
old like an old comedy where someone's like shopping their pants.
The way she's like walking like so comedically, and she
those classic old comedies where someone ships the kids. It
is like a clown walk. It's like anyway she does that,
(04:11):
and she like had a diaper on, and I was like,
she didn't remember that she was allowed to pee anymore,
like she thought it was all going badly and it
was just really funny. Well, this weekend, I took them
by myself to our friend's house and she used the
party they're a big, big toilet and I held her
(04:32):
and I thought she might panic and revert back in
her training, but no, she was like I got this
big girl, probably because there was this a younger girl
there that I think she's threatened by. So she has
to show what a what an adult she is. Yeah,
she was, she's dumb. In the past week, she somehow
(04:55):
has become way more like outgoing or she's like in
is wild two year old phase where she's like testing
all the boundaries and she's just like a little bit
out of control, Like she was a nightmare to night
for a bit. Yesterday she was really difficult at times,
(05:16):
but they both were they Bryn was perfect traveling. I
mean he was a little stubborn at first, and she
was good. And then we got in the car and
I started doing her seatbelt and she goes no. She
does a classic not you go away. She's been doing
a lot of that, just picking random battles and like
not wanting to do things that you need to do.
And she didn't want her seatbelt on, and I was like, well,
(05:37):
I'm not playing this game and you're not strong light Brandon,
so I'm putting your seat belt on. And then she
just lost it. Yeah, I have a recording of her.
She wanted to stay in the car when we got home,
and I brought her inside and I put her in
her room to calm down, and then she came out
and she put her shoes back on, she put her
like vest back on, her hat back on, and I
(06:01):
left the room and I came back and she was
pulling on her jacket on the hook so hard go away.
And then I took a recording of talking to her,
asking her if she wanted to go be in the
car by herself, and that's what she wanted. She wanted
to go be in the car by herself. Oh, she's
just copying things that Bryn says he wants when he's
(06:22):
being difficult. It's exactly right. Yeah, she's just the the
classic like toddler move is like wanting to wear a
coat indoors or not wanting to wear one outdoors, just
like the most just self sabotage whatever you're trying to
get me to do. That's the thing I hate. She
and Bryn were taking off their boots at the end
(06:42):
of the time. We went to the playground yesterday morning
for like a long time, which was good because I
think they needed to be outside, and they like, we're
so like, I just would not leave within a regular
amount of time. So then obviously we only left when
they were like getting like under dress and hungry, and
they both were like taking off their boots and like
(07:04):
walking around in their socks on the cold playground, and
then they were like I started trying to get them
to leave, and Maybn got really mad and she like
when I wasn't when I wasn't looking because I was
like helping brand, she like ripped her whole coat off
and was like angrily throwing it, and then she had
(07:24):
she wasn't wearing her hat, and then within seconds of
doing this in anger, I think she became just as
angry and how cold she was, and she was like
my hat, my hat, and she was just kicking and screaming.
I had to just drag her into the car because
I was like, I'm not like standing out here while
I tried to get these clothes on her. Uh so,
(07:45):
But it was just so funny her being in the
car because she was suddenly so helpless, like she just
wanted her clothes back on so badly. It was just
Brandon taycare. A lot of times she was like, I
won't wear my jacket. I'm like I stopped finding Okay, fine,
I go outside and then five I can said He's like,
I'm cold, Like you want your jacket. He's like, yeah,
(08:05):
maybe in the kitchen tonight too. I brought her in there,
She's like, I want some water. And so it's always,
you know, the wrong cup, the wrong plate. So I've
learned to get ahead of it. Yeah. I think part
of maybe why she might be lashing out is because
she got potty trained this week and then in the
same week we lost her last pacifier and just gave
(08:26):
up on it, and it just unceremoniously. She no longer
gets to wear diapers or have a passive here, and
I think she's sort of like the childhood is gone.
And I think she's like feels a little crazy but
doesn't know why, you know what I mean, Like she's like,
what is happening? She's lost to have her her most
constant comforts in life, because I think it's all wrapped
(08:51):
and something in her mouth. Yeah, she doesn't want to
go to bed, she doesn't want to do anything. She's
just like in a mood. Yeah. I brought her in
the kitchen and it's like lots some water, like okay,
And I pulled out the pink cup because I know what.
I knew that it's what she wanted. She's going to
want the big pink cup. Now. She was like this
and she wanted to be on the counter. I was like,
you can't climb the counter, and I was like, fine,
(09:13):
you want the pink cups. I don't want that cup,
Like what cup do you want? And then she was
just overwhelmed and couldn't give me a choice. I finally
just picked her up and I stood around the counter.
This after like five minutes and then finally she looks
in the cubinet and she's like, I want this pink cup. Yeah,
of course I was like, you mean the one I
knew you wanted to give me a break? Boy. So
(09:37):
I'm going out of town again to New Orleans again
shooting a different commercial. Um, I'm gonna made a commercial
with a professional athlete. I don't know if I'm abowed
to say. Boy, I just made it that made us
sound like a real big deal. Um, maybe it is.
(09:58):
I don't know, but I'm leaving you for three days.
Word than last time. Yeah, it's just so annoying. It's
like there's so many levels of annoyingness to it. It's
like the middle of December. Yeah, it's a bad week.
Last time I went to New Orleans. You recorded the
be half the podcast alone. Yeah, are you happy that
(10:20):
I can't do this that this time? Because we don't
need an episode yet. I was really torning that episode
because boy, I like it when people are thinking about
me when I'm not there. But you know, ah, I'm
I'm selfishly excited as always to have a first class
ticket by myself. I have no complaints, and we have
(10:41):
money to eat food. So they're flying first class. Yeah,
sad contract, baby, that's how it works. Incredible. Well, I'm
going to have fun here, um trying to drag two
kids through the freezing cold. Well in January, you are
going to the Cayman Islands without us, just for fun.
(11:04):
So m hmmm, I don't feel bad. This next segment
is called did you Knows? That's where Peter and I
share some parenting information. So this comes to us actually
from a listener who wrote in and a little weird
(11:25):
because she read, um, something from slates parenting. Um, uh,
what do you call it? Advice column? Um? So it's
a little word that we're just taking somebody else's parenting
excited advice call him. But uh, this writer, Smitty wrote
(11:45):
in and wanted our take on this column, and I
thought it was interesting. Um, so we're gonna read it.
And then, Beth, you have not read this, so I
sort of want your cold hot take if you will, uh,
your cold hot take, which I guess will be a
warm take. All right, So this is Slate's parenting advice column,
(12:09):
has written by Carvel Wallace. So here is the person
writing in. Uh, I live in a small building twenty
six units with some young families and other singles. We
mostly get along very well, except for a family who
has two small children, a four year old girl and
a two year old boy. Sounds familiar. They live across
(12:31):
the courtyard from me, and the children are always crying
and screaming. The mother is always yelling at them inside
their apartment and elsewhere. My next door neighbor, here's the
worst of it. The other day, the mother put the
girl outside the door and closed it because the child
was screaming. She screamed louder than the mother took her
inside and put her in a room and slammed the door,
and the child screamed some more. I don't hear any
(12:53):
of it. My neighbor shares a wall, so she does.
The neighbors who know about this hate what's happening, but
don't want to get involved. I think someone has to
step up to help these children from being mistreated. I've
had family members who were terribly abused, and know lots
of people who were abusive children as well as adults.
They have said, if only someone had said something when
(13:14):
they were growing up, how different their lives may have been.
Father travels a lot for business and isn't home a lot.
He's pretty passive from what I can see. The mother
is the screamer and and uh he tries to calm
her down. She doesn't talk to anyone in the building.
And it's an awful driver too. She always on her cellphone.
Surprised even when the kids stuck their heads through the
(13:35):
garage gate and almost got there, got beheaded when another
neighbor was pulling into the garage. There's a lot of
exclamation points in this letter. We're hoping the family moves
out when the least expires, but that won't end the
abuse slash mistreatment. Everyone else is a big fact chick,
big fat chicken. And I want to help these kids.
Thank you, love, Noisy neighbor. Uh do you want to
(13:58):
hear the reply or do you want to reply? Um?
Maybe just give us the gist of it. I think,
dear Noise neighbor, it's my duty to inform you that
while abuse is terrible, there is an alternate explanation for
everything in this letter. It's called being a parent with
little kids when your co partners never around. Here's something
(14:20):
you may not may not know about kids. They scream
like they are being abused and mistreated even when they
are not being abused or mistreated four year old tantrums. Okay,
I think you get the point. Yeah, I mean this
is mostly my reaction to the this letter. I don't
want to diminish reporting actual abuse, but I think in
(14:42):
the context of this letter, this person hasn't given us
any sign that they are genuinely concerned for the children.
Like I don't know, they just seem pissed at their neighbor. Basically,
I live in fear that this is what our neighbors
think about. Yeah, when they are describing this, it sounds
like exactly like my sunday with the kids is like
(15:03):
they're like running down the hill. When I'm trying to
get them inside, They're both like running in different directions.
I have to yell at them like they like they're
just freaking out. Like if they were a little older
or we had like an enclosed outdoor space, I can
totally see why I would make them stand outside a door,
you know what I mean. It's just like you sometimes
(15:23):
you just need to like walk away from them so
that they stop like acting up. It's just, oh, I
gave them alone time, as like you need to calm down.
We have a little alone time, but I need a
loan time so that I don't murder them. That was
the only way I could get them both inside on
Sunday was just like they were like running all over
the place, both like being bad and taking turns running
(15:45):
away and then they were like, you know, like all
the way down the hill, which none of our listeners
understand what this means, but they uh, they're like I
finally had to just act like I was leaving them
both outside and they're like both getting really sad. But
it was like the only option is just being I
was like I'm done, I'm done trying to carry one
(16:08):
of you while the other one runs away like and
I can't, I mean, I won't. I it's possible that
there is something really problematic happening in the situation, but
nothing that this person wrote leads me to believe that
there is abuse happening. Yeah, And I think the telling
(16:28):
details for me is like if she had been worried
about the kid and then like I've seen these signs
the kid looks sad like that, you know what I mean,
Like if they felt if it felt like this was
someone who's really picking up on like of core problems,
like emotional problem, then I would be like, oh, maybe
there's abuse there. But like the she's picking out the
mom like uses a cell phone, Like it's just like, okay,
(16:50):
you just hate this woman, you know, like you know
this is it's it's the road rage culture, you know
of the internet. You know road rage. You can instantly
despise a person because you don't see their face, and
so you create a person in your head, and in
your head they are the worst. Yeah, well, I mean
face to face, which if she was like so concerned
(17:12):
for the kids in the situation of like she when
she said they almost got decapitated or something by the
garage door. I didn't really understand what was said there,
but it seems like the if she cared, she would
go to the mom and be like, hey, I'm worried
about your kids having this thing happened to them, and
like what how are you doing? You know, like this
(17:33):
is the rest of the advice that's given is like
it sounds like this woman could use some support. Maybe
you should make friends, like you introduce yourself. I agree,
you know, and if there's something, you know, if there
is something terrible going on. That's also the best way
to like look into it further if you introduced yourself
(17:54):
offer help. Um. But yeah, as a as a parent,
who met A talked about this on the podcast before
who spent thirty five minutes on an airplane holding Bryan's
seatbelt on while he screamed you're hurting me over and
over and over for half an hour. Yeah, I can
understand how it might not sound like what it actually is.
(18:19):
Maven was doing that this week where she's decided to
start saying you're hurting me, and I had to just
not respond to it at all because I was like,
this is not something we're going to be saying. I. Yeah,
you have to ignore that. She thinks that it's a tactic. Yeah,
we're doomed. I was like, you know, I've told Bryn
you can't stomp on the floor because the downs are
(18:40):
I'm sure the downs are neighbors, stays neighbors. Yeah, they've
been knocking on the ceiling more and more. Just I
fully understand. I'm sure it's a nightmare down there. Yeah,
but I tell Brand, I was like, you can't stomp
you know downstairs they get angry. So Brand knows that
that matters, and he gets upset and he's angry. He
(19:01):
now specifically stomps. I was like it might have been
a benefit. I said, nothing at all. Yeah, I mean,
he's got your dramatic flair for life, so he's gonna
slam something. It needs to flail a limb in a
dramatic way every now and again. Yesterday he actually he
punched the closet and then he like it must have
(19:21):
hit his knuckle really hard, and he was like oh,
And it was really satisfying for me to be like, yeah,
do you understand why we don't just punch like it
sounds like exactly something I have done in a fight
with you, where I stormed away and punched a bookcase
and really hurt my hand. Uh. Well, we need to
(19:41):
talk about my most vulnerable moment. We fight like any
other couple. Early on, I think we had our most
epic fights where we were figuring out each other's fighting styles.
I have no idea where this is going. Uh, this
is going to one of my one of my lower
moments where I get really I badger, like when we're
(20:05):
gonna fight, I badger you and badger you. And that's
like the worst thing to do if you're trying to
connect with that fun tip everyone so and you will
walk away and then I go ballistic. Well, my friends
and I have been talking about this, and it's like,
I think men don't understand how terrifying it is when
you like corner us physically and just keep doing it
(20:25):
over and over again. It's like being hunted, and it's
like it's so threatening, and um I think you're like,
why is she not listening to me? And you're just
like getting scarier fair enough? Um uh, well that's not Yeah,
(20:45):
I'm not gonna argue with that, but I don't want
I just don't want everyone to think that I'm like
cornering you. I know, I m walked into doorways and
you felt like get out of here. But it just
feels like being cornered when you're like when someone is
like like if someone if you walk away from someone
and they follow you into the other room and then
they are blocking the doorway, that's cornering someone. Like, yeah,
(21:09):
well I don't do that anymore. Yeah, I hope not.
But anyway, I just wanted to say that because I
think a lot of guys do that and it's just
like they think it's expected that they're like supposed to
be aggressive in different situations. Well there's something about like
when we're fighting and you just shut off and literally
walk away, my brain explodes. Yeah, But like this goes
(21:33):
back to the article that I always reference on medium
called men dump their anger into Women. And it's just
like women can have feelings like that of rage and
not like lash out at someone. Like I'm not saying
all women and all men, but like men are more
likely to be like, oh, I have an emotion, like
someone else says to help me deal with it, and
(21:53):
women are like, oh, this sucks. Now I have to
process why this sucks, Like, well, it's taken a decade
being with somebody who is zero percent receptive to such
a thing, where I that is instantly now I know,
like this isn't gonna work out for me. I have
to just stop. But this is not the point of
(22:15):
the story. No, I don't know how I got on
this tangent, but one of the I have about like
when I hear a lot of people's relationship problems, it
feels like it comes down to a lot of this
is just being like badgered, and like it's just very frustrated.
Every couple has to you have to fake, you have
(22:35):
to learn. You have to learn that. Anyway, I think
we're answering a question of anyway. My point was we
were in a big fight and you walked away, and
I had a wine glass in my hand. I literally
said don't but I was like, so frustrating, but don't
walk away, and accidentally hit the wine glass on the table,
and he like squeezed it while also squeezing it was
(22:59):
the bottom of it eating the table, and the whole
thing shattered in my hand. And I looked down in shock,
and there is a significant amount of blood instantly running
down my hand. And you were gone, and I'm looking
at a still in rage but now very vulnerable, and I,
in my smallest voice, just called out, I need help.
(23:23):
You came back in, and you had a flash fear
and then a tiny bit of pity and then just
such resentment that stuff like that, It's just like, well,
it's been a while since I've broken myself or an
object out of anger. Anyway, m my son. Anyway, bringing
(23:51):
up that fun fund memory, it was a shameful It
was a shameful moment. It's a low moment. Anyway, we're
not abusing. But was so angry the other day and
he can be a little He can do a little
bit of hitting sometime, and I was like, not a
big thing. So I brought him to the other room
to calm him down, and I tried something I never
did before. Rush. I was just like I was on
(24:11):
the bed and he was there, and I go, you
know what I like to do when I'm angry. And
then I punched the pillow really hard and he was like.
I was like, it wasn't like scary, it was not
really hard, like hit it enough for him to be
like WHOA. And I was like, that makes me feel better.
And I saw his whole face change and I was like,
(24:32):
I hit it a few more times. I was like,
that makes me feel less angry. And I was like,
you're gonna try. He's like he shook his head eagerly
and he started punching the pillow. You're gonna have to
get him like a punching bag now. And then, honestly,
I wouldn't mind if he had an outlet for this,
because he clearly just has like a need. He needs
he lives in his body, he needs to just he
(24:52):
needs to just dance dance it out anyway, being a
parent is hard. All make friends with a parent who's
having a hard time. This next segment is called would
you Know. This is where Peter or a listener, presents
(25:14):
us with a hypothetical parenting situation and we have to
discuss how we deal with it. We do, and by
we we mean you, Beth, so we gotta would you know?
It's been a little while since we've would you knowsed it?
And this one comes to us from a listener from
England named Charles. Hi, Beth and Peter. Hello from rainy London.
(25:40):
I'm actually American, but have uh been living in London
for about fifteen years, where I member a beautiful English
wife and we now have an amazing four and a
half year old daughter with a mishmash American slash English accent. Uh.
Then some more nice things and a part where he
(26:01):
supports the idea of a Beth button that I will
skip and welcome to that Nope, and then he says
I love the parenting hypothetical. Peter size Brin is a classic.
That is a classic. Check out that episode. I don't
know which one time. Here's one for you. This is
the Marty McFly conundrum. Situation. You have access to a
(26:26):
time traveling DeLorean or Honda fit those are you laughing,
you're real fans, uh, that you could use for just
one trip. You both decide to use that trip to
visit your kids in the future. While there, you see
that one or both of your children were about to
(26:47):
make what you feel is a huge life mistake. You
only have enough time there to try to stop them
from making said mistake, or do nothing and observe. Either way,
you have to go straight back to your original time,
otherwise you might slightly destroy the space time continuum, slash
collapse the universe, slash ends civilization, slash fall into a
(27:10):
plot a plot hole, etcetera. A plot hole it's hard. Uh.
This means you don't know what will happen if you
don't get involved. You also don't know what will happen
if you do. I have to say, I don't understand
this hypothetical at all. You you're going into the future
(27:32):
to maybe prevent your kid from making a vague life
You're going into the future just to check it out.
But when you get there, you see Brendan Maven are
about to make a choice that you feel is terrible,
just a vague bad choice. What could the choice possibly
be before they're about to murders? Before you go on,
(27:53):
you have to listen to the rest of it, okay,
because it addresses what you're doing right now. Question. Do
you intervene and prevent them from making what you perceive
as a big mistake or do you to let it
happen and hope that you raise them well enough to
deal with adversity and learn from their mistakes. Beth, no
picking it apart on technical grounds or invoking multiverse theory.
(28:13):
Just go with it anyway. Thanks for all the laughs.
I hope you keep it going. All the best of
both junior kids. Charles Um. That being said, you do
raise some good questions. I'm just turning about my head
around what this hypothetical implies about my kid, Like if
they're terrible, it's like, I don't know, there's nothing I
(28:34):
can do to change the fact that they've apparently become
terrible people. Well, I think not to not to pull
a bath here, but you go into the future to
see that they're about to make a terrible mistake that
will impact the further future, and you have a choice.
Then the mistake is not about their lives. It's about
the future. It's about the world. No no, no, no, no,
(28:57):
it's about them. It's their lives. But they're gonna make
you go to the future to see them about to
make a choice that may theoretically ruin the rest of
their life. And that's the moment you have to decide
whether it's just given an example of what it should have,
you should have? But then do you do nothing and
go back? But my question is why wouldn't you do
(29:17):
nothing because you don't want to mess with time and
then go back to your original time and then raise
your kids telling them, hey, if this thing ever comes out,
don't do it. Yeah, that's what I don't understand, is
like the fact that you're trying to prevent something in
the future, Like it doesn't make any sense that time.
Like if it was a real marty, you'd have to
(29:38):
go to the past. Oh boy, oh we are nitpicking.
We'll do exactly. It's hard. What kind of mistake is it? Is?
Like if we what have we went to the future
and we're bringing Abron's room and brins, Like all right, see,
we're gonna rob this diamond store, Maven and here's my
(29:59):
plan nothing and they'll go wrong. Where is it like
I'm gonna marry Karen, She's terrible. It's just to me
feels like any choice they make is going to be
for the purpose of like learning a life lesson, and
I don't like they're they just need to have that experience.
I don't know. Yeah, how old are they are? They adults,
(30:19):
which case it's their problem. You know, we did our job. Yeah,
I mean unless they're like literally just going to trip
off a sidewalk and fall into like an evil robot's
mouth or something like, if that's the decision they're about
to make. Wait, wait, wait, I need a picture of
this scene where they're on a sidewalk and just off
(30:41):
the sidewalk is I assuming like a precipice or a manhole,
and in the manhole is just a giant robot with
his mouth a gape well waiting for someone to fall in.
It's not necessarily a manhole. It could just be like
the robots are or like in the future little robot
dogs from the subways, and it's like a population control
(31:03):
like victim blaming thing they've made up um and they're
just constantly like eating holes up through the street that
are there, like no, they're they're held in pins, so
they're not like roving wild, but if you fall in,
it's considered your faults. They're held in pins like pens.
Pens like a pen. I don't want to keep explaining.
(31:26):
I think it's really obvious to everyone else. But the pens,
the robot dog pens are are underground with a whole
big enough that you can fall off a sidewalk. It's
really it's gonna weed out of the people that are
on their phones while they walk down the sidewalk. Yeah. Um,
I'm gonna go ahead, Charles and say, without a concrete
(31:49):
example of what exactly the bad decision is, Um, I'm
gonna say we let them make their own life choices,
and then we go back into I'm and then change
the way we're parents so that they wouldn't even consider
such a thing. I didn't think of that. Or does
that mess with the time space continue I don't care.
(32:11):
You can mess with the time space continuing if it
affects the future, it hasn't happened yet. Just don't mess
with the pass. Yeah, I just I don't think we
have nearly as much control as we think we do,
even if we do have time travel abilities. You know
it's going to happen. Yeah, No, the robots are coming.
(32:31):
I could barely plan tomorrow. You're gonna say Christmas shopping presents.
I'm more I'm on top of it. But boy, this
is a struggle you and I have every year where
I say, please get ahead of it so that I
don't have to hear about it on December as you're
scrambling to print something on a printer that has no wing.
(32:51):
But I gotta say, finding New Orleans has really thrown
a wrench my plans. But I'm still more what you
mean your plans to put it off until the last
minute and keep saying you're on top of to do this.
I'm still more ahead of it than I've ever been.
Um Anyway, Charles, if you've listened to the podcast, you
know Beth needs incredible specifics in a would you notice scenario,
(33:14):
here's everyone's homework. You also wanted specifics. You're just making
me sound like the difficult one because you're not. You're
not answering his question. It's true, I'm giving Charles a note,
but I'm blaming you for the note, Charles, I'll give
it to you straight. Your question needed specific. Okay, it
was a good first draft. I want someone's homework is
(33:38):
to write us in insanely specific would you know scenario
where Beth can't nit pick anything and it has to
have time travel. Unfortunately, unfortunately that's a new rule. No,
whatever it is, I want you to paint a picture.
Let's get some real writers out there to go for it,
and next week we'll read some m a beautiful prose. Anyway,
(34:03):
when we stop them, maybe I don't know what they do.
Now it's time for listeners want to knows. This is
where we take an email and read it and discuss Beth.
You have one, yes. Um. This is a listener who
(34:24):
wrote in in response to our gender discussion. I'm trying
to remember what we were actually talking about last week.
I was changing a diaper. Questions came up, and I,
with no preparation once whatsoever, for the first time, explained
genitalia to my kids. Yeah, not having thought it through. Yeah.
(34:48):
So this listener says, I am the mother of a
four point five year old transgender daughter I had never
knowingly met, although I obviously did without being aware of
it a transgender person before my daughter. She has changed
my world in such an amazing way. I spend so
much of my life advocating for her now. As a
shortened backstory, she was born without incident. We were told
(35:08):
she was a boy based on her anatomy. We raised
her as a boy until she was about twenty two
months old, and she started showing us in a million
little ways that only became more and more obvious. This
time went on that she's actually a girl. I put
as a boy in quotes because raising babies and toddlers
by gender is a very loose guideline. Basically, we dressed
(35:28):
her in typical boy clothes. We never instilled strict gender
roles on either of our kids. We also have a
two point five year old cis gender as far as
we can tell so far, daughter, such as girls get
oh sorry, such a sorry ron on a sentence, but
we never sold gender roles such as girls get these
toys and boys get these toys. By age three, she
told us a dozen times a day that she was
(35:50):
a girl and would correct us if we said anything
that gendered her as a boy. What a smart boy
you are. You're such a funny boy, et cetera. Within
two months of her aiming her gender dozens of times
a day, we allowed her to pick out address at
it at a store. Within four months of her insistence, consistence,
and persistence, we allowed her entire wardrobe to be picked
(36:11):
out by her in the girl section at the store.
By age three point five, we changed her pronouns to
she her, and we changed the spelling of her name
to be more feminine. By age four, I was applying
for a legal name change and gender marker change on
all her legal documents so that she could enter kindergarten
as her true self without a trail of documents denying
(36:31):
her identity. She never once trayed from her insistence of
her gender identity. This extremely shortened version of her story
does not even touch on my story and my husband's
story on how difficult this journey was for us along
the way, Although we are supportive and affirming, and she'll
never know what it's like to be denied for years
or even decades of her true identity, like so many
(36:52):
other transgender kids are. I'm writing to thank you so sorry.
I'm writing to thank you for in gatting so many
marginalized groups in your discussions, especially transgender people. Exposure to
the normality of marginalized people's existence will slowly but surely
normalize my own daughter's existence. I spent an inordinate amount
(37:12):
of time worrying about what she'll encounter in her future.
Now is the better time to grow up transgender than
any other generation before. But still we are probably three
to four decades away from the acceptance level gay people
have right now, which isn't even where it should be either.
I did have one note for you based on this
latest episode, resistance being but I'm sure did not cross
(37:33):
your mind as this gender people but deserves a mention.
When talking about may even and her potty training with
both your kids, it's important, as the woke parents you
are not to say or confirm the statement that girls
have vaginas and boys have penises. That kind of statement
could put a child like mine at risk, even in preschool,
but especially kindergarten and grade school when kids get a
(37:54):
little more understanding about people's bodies. In my family, we
say some girls have vaginas and have penises. We don't
even use most instead of some. Because every single thing
I install in my children, particularly my transgender daughter, makes
a huge difference. One simple statement could give her dysphoria
of her body that could make her want to self
(38:16):
harm as young as five to six years old, not
to mention that scary stuff that could happen at an
older age. She as much is, She is as much
a girl as her likely sis gender sister, and her
genitals don't deny her of her identity. Anyway, I think
I'll end there because I think that last point was
the one I really want to talk about, which is that, UM,
(38:37):
the statistics she was quoting about what this could cause
a transgender kid to do or feel about themselves at
such a young age, I think was, UM, it's upsetting
to hear, but I think I was like, oh, okay,
this is like something we should all be more aware
of so that we can be more cognizant of how
we talk about these issues. Yeah, I was so happy
(39:00):
this person wrote in because it was It's just something
I've I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about.
Um UM working in with story parots where we we
serve every kind of kid there is in including transgender kids.
And through that work, UM, you know, I think when
(39:20):
I first started doing it, I was twenty two was
just like, yeah, we do, you know, we're just having
fun up here. And then the more intitus you you
meet kids and as as we build do the kind
of work that I do. Whenever we're making choices for
stories were performing, we have to remind ourselves like, Okay,
(39:41):
what if I'm this kind of kid and I'm listening
to this story, what does this kind of message say
to uh a gay child, or a child with a
missing limb, or an overweight child, or someone who's minority.
You know, Um, yeah, I feel kind of wouldn't feel
(40:04):
the same way about performing comedy or writing comedy over
the last few years. Is like it, um, if you
care about these issues, you become aware of sort of
like what your work might unintentionally be implying or saying.
And I think it can feel oppressive to like, particularly
white people, to have to like learn about other people's
(40:27):
oppression and like we uh you know sometimes like bristle
at it. But over time you start to realize it's
just like very useful information to have so that you
can be like like a better citizen of the world
and like just connect more with the people around you
and like understand what they're going through you know, it
(40:48):
doesn't like take that much effort to just like listen
when people are upset. You know, well, especially through the
lens of comedy, whereas you become a more mature person
and committe and you start to realize, you know, obviously
that jokes where the joke is simply pointing out that
someone is different, which is a lot more comedy than
(41:09):
you might expect, Like that's not cool to like make
an arbitrary fat joke, and where the joke is like,
oh you're fat, that's shameful. Uh. You can talk about
heavy topics and subjects and sensitive things in comedy so
long as it's speaking to the irrational behavior surrounding such thing. Anyway,
(41:34):
going back to the listener email, Uh, the I thought
this was just a really like I I really appreciate
the way this person laid it out so clearly, um
and thoughtfully, and not in uh any kind of like
blamey way. It was just like she's calmly presenting the facts,
(41:54):
and um I said this before. I think like someone
in this situation knew her. I mean, I don't think
you did anything particularly triggering and what you said, but
I can understand why she would be like, hey, like,
that's something you want to be aware of. UM. It
was very nice of her to not um sort of
send a more upset email. Yeah, well, I it was
(42:18):
obviously something that UM. I have actually thought about this
of how I would explain this to my kids so
that it was inclusive and it wasn't so you know,
strictly binary. But I didn't have a plan, and in
the moment it came up, it was them breaking it
up and ME just being like boys penises. Well, that's
(42:38):
what I really appreciate about this UM email. It's just
like it sort of gives us a game plan where
we just to be honest, had done Like I think
I knew in my head, like, oh, we'll try to
be like honest with our kids about their genitals and
not like make them feel shame around them or whatever.
But I didn't really like think about how that me
(42:59):
discussed their genitals would impact the people around them in
the future, which is like a useful thing to know,
you know, because what I have in that moment have
taught them is that it's this or this, So if
somebody doesn't fit one of those two things. I have
taught my children that that that they're wrong. Yeah, well,
they're like, especially kids of that age, they want to
(43:21):
categorize and they want to know that these are the options.
And when you meet somebody that doesn't fit their options,
they're going to ridicule them without even realizing they're ridiculing them. Yeah,
but I think it's honestly just something they're only just noticing. Like, yes,
but here's the big thing that I was writing to somebody.
I forget. But it's a lot of the times I
(43:44):
think parents can be so scared of getting it wrong,
and I think it is great to be aiming to
sort of be open minded and grow and like quote
unquote get it right. And you know, in this situation,
I was like, oh, yeah, you know what. I like
(44:04):
this the way she spelled it out, That's how I
should have done it. But you have a lifetime to
get this right. Yeah. That was not the only opportunity
I have to explain this to my kids, and it
won't be the last time. Yeah. No. And I think
like the sort of the threats that she mentioned about um,
(44:26):
trans kids, you know, applies more obviously more if your
kid is trans and you need to set that example
for them. Obviously, we all should be striving to. But
I think it's like if you're picking up on your kid,
uh like I don't know, identifying as a girl or whatever,
I don't know you just I mean that if you
(44:46):
have never if you don't have anybody who has experienced that,
and you really haven't heard about that, and your child
is experiencing that, I can imagine that that is a
stressful thing for a parent who feels like they're doing
something wrong. Well, those stories to realize it's okay. Every
case of those stories I've heard has been a child
(45:07):
like this one, where it's just they're just constantly insisting
on this as their identity over a long period of time.
Like kids do have phases and say things they don't understand,
but like if they're feeling something for like an entire
year at at such a young age, like that feels
like a pretty core part of their identity. That's a
(45:28):
really common story for that, at least that I have
heard for transgender kids. It's not every but I think
it's it's good for us to all know about this
because I think you know, when we're overhearing those like
kids have those conversations about like girls do those and
ploys do that. Like I don't think you have to
like shove it down their throats, but you can just
(45:49):
like quietly correct them and move along. And you know
what I mean, Like it's just um, Yeah, if you
like lecture these things angrily at kids, I think they'll
shut down a little. But it's an incredible I mean,
there's not a hot take, but it is incredible how
(46:09):
much this has become a part of the national conversation
in such a short period of time. The fact that
like the new Roseanne which is now not Roseanne, the
Connors were one of the grandkids. It's a is uh,
I don't I don't know what the label is. It
is transgender um but like certainly gender fluid character on
(46:33):
a network comedy um is is exciting. Yeah, And I
think those representations will probably get more sophisticated as time
goes on in terms of portraying like that actual experience,
because I think like when this listener says she's like
not telling half the story of like what she and
her husband went through, It's like there's like a whole
(46:55):
story there to be told. I think of like people's
anxieties around stuff like that, Like it's it's it's not
something you that we obviously want to judge, but you
can acknowledge that it's a struggle for people to like
get on board with things that they haven't been raised with.
And that's like our struggle now is like how do
we create this culture where it's like, yeah, you're just
(47:17):
raised with us and we're not, like, how do we
erase these behaviors ingrained in us? Uh? Well, thank you, Jennifer. UM,
that is appreciated and needed perspective. Um, that uh that
we thank you for. This has been listeners Wanna knows.
(47:47):
This has been another episode of We Knows Parenting. I'm
Peter McNerney. That's Beth NEWTLL. If you want to reach
out send us a question, a story, some advice, you
can email us at we Knows Pod at gmail dot
com or fine just on the social media's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
at we Knows Pod. You can also leave us a
voicemail at three four seven three eight four seven three
(48:11):
nine six if you'd like to record your question. UM,
we'd love that you. Please rate, review, and subscribe to
us on iTunes. Um, please really really helps us out. Please,
that's don't don't whine um our theme songs by Mates State.
Check them out. I'm gonna go get on a plane.
(48:34):
I love you Bath
Hello, welcome to We Know His Parenting. I'm Beth Nowell.
I'm Peter McNerney, and this is parenting podcast. It sure
is if you were expecting something else, tough luck. I
feel like we just get better and better at the
intro as we go, are less worried about getting it right.
(00:35):
Um anyway, um, catching up since last week's new Um,
we just had sex, um, which is something I'm not
comfortable sharing. And uh, if you're our parents, just we're
not going to talk about it. I just want to
acknowledge it as a thing. That's one of the one
things I'm afraid to talk about on this podcast, but
(00:57):
just as a thing to do before recording. I gotta say,
feeling pretty relaxed, maybe I won't interrupt you so much.
You're You're he'll be significantly calmer than usual. I'm now
very embarrassed. I feel like you're going to delete this later. No,
(01:18):
I don't have time. I gotta get it on a
plane and like this anyway, that's what we've been up to. UM. Yeah,
you know, we should have recorded this an hour ago,
but we decided to strengthen our bond as a marriage instead.
Did I stand by that choice. Are there anything else
you wanted to say about I've already said too much.
(01:39):
The funny thing is, I think you're more uncomfortable with
this being discussed on the podcast than I am, but
you just keep Yeah. It's I It's like, you know,
when when Bryn knows he's doing something wrong, he has
something he shouldn't, he'll like weirdly sneak towards you to
see if you're checking on him, and it just gives
him away. I sit down and I'm like, boy, I
(02:02):
don't want to say the thing in my head. And
then that's interesting gonna say. Doesn't that make you comfortable
knowing that I can't lie to you? I mean you
can lie to me in the sense that you don't
always think about the words you're saying until they come
out of your mouth, and they're just like exaggerations of
(02:22):
the truth. Yeah, but anything truly deceitful. I can't. I
can't hold on to that. What has happened this week?
Maven's potty trained? Can we say that? Yeah? I mean
when I picture up the other day she'd had two
accidents at daycare in the same day, but none the
(02:43):
rest of the week, and today she were underwear for
the first so we did. We had to go commando
last week because underwear, uh, it gives kids a false salve,
false false sense of security, like it feels like a diaper.
First started doing it, we went naked, and then pants,
no underwear, and today she went underwear pants, and she
(03:05):
had her perfect day. Well what else over the weekend
when she was doing was she would like pee a
little bit in her underwear, which is, depending on the moment,
was sort of more than a little bit. And then
she would like be like oh no, oh no, and
then she'd like go sit on the body and pee
and we had to clean her up. But she's good.
(03:27):
It's a step in the right direction. I think she's recognizing,
oh I shouldn't. This is not good idea. Yeah, I
won't want to pee all over myself. But she doesn't
really understand what's happening. So she's like how owow, and
I'm like, no, you just don't like having wet pants.
Does face when she gets bow legged and she goes
She did that when I had put a diper on
(03:48):
her because I was trying to get her to nap
or something, and she started doing that bow legged walk.
Like she as if it's like it was like an
old like an old comedy where someone's like shopping their pants.
The way she's like walking like so comedically, and she
those classic old comedies where someone ships the kids. It
is like a clown walk. It's like anyway she does that,
(04:11):
and she like had a diaper on, and I was like,
she didn't remember that she was allowed to pee anymore,
like she thought it was all going badly and it
was just really funny. Well, this weekend, I took them
by myself to our friend's house and she used the
party they're a big, big toilet and I held her
(04:32):
and I thought she might panic and revert back in
her training, but no, she was like I got this
big girl, probably because there was this a younger girl
there that I think she's threatened by. So she has
to show what a what an adult she is. Yeah,
she was, she's dumb. In the past week, she somehow
(04:55):
has become way more like outgoing or she's like in
is wild two year old phase where she's like testing
all the boundaries and she's just like a little bit
out of control, Like she was a nightmare to night
for a bit. Yesterday she was really difficult at times,
(05:16):
but they both were they Bryn was perfect traveling. I
mean he was a little stubborn at first, and she
was good. And then we got in the car and
I started doing her seatbelt and she goes no. She
does a classic not you go away. She's been doing
a lot of that, just picking random battles and like
not wanting to do things that you need to do.
And she didn't want her seatbelt on, and I was like, well,
(05:37):
I'm not playing this game and you're not strong light Brandon,
so I'm putting your seat belt on. And then she
just lost it. Yeah, I have a recording of her.
She wanted to stay in the car when we got home,
and I brought her inside and I put her in
her room to calm down, and then she came out
and she put her shoes back on, she put her
like vest back on, her hat back on, and I
(06:01):
left the room and I came back and she was
pulling on her jacket on the hook so hard go away.
And then I took a recording of talking to her,
asking her if she wanted to go be in the
car by herself, and that's what she wanted. She wanted
to go be in the car by herself. Oh, she's
just copying things that Bryn says he wants when he's
(06:22):
being difficult. It's exactly right. Yeah, she's just the the
classic like toddler move is like wanting to wear a
coat indoors or not wanting to wear one outdoors, just
like the most just self sabotage whatever you're trying to
get me to do. That's the thing I hate. She
and Bryn were taking off their boots at the end
(06:42):
of the time. We went to the playground yesterday morning
for like a long time, which was good because I
think they needed to be outside, and they like, we're
so like, I just would not leave within a regular
amount of time. So then obviously we only left when
they were like getting like under dress and hungry, and
they both were like taking off their boots and like
(07:04):
walking around in their socks on the cold playground, and
then they were like I started trying to get them
to leave, and Maybn got really mad and she like
when I wasn't when I wasn't looking because I was
like helping brand, she like ripped her whole coat off
and was like angrily throwing it, and then she had
(07:24):
she wasn't wearing her hat, and then within seconds of
doing this in anger, I think she became just as
angry and how cold she was, and she was like
my hat, my hat, and she was just kicking and screaming.
I had to just drag her into the car because
I was like, I'm not like standing out here while
I tried to get these clothes on her. Uh so,
(07:45):
But it was just so funny her being in the
car because she was suddenly so helpless, like she just
wanted her clothes back on so badly. It was just
Brandon taycare. A lot of times she was like, I
won't wear my jacket. I'm like I stopped finding Okay, fine,
I go outside and then five I can said He's like,
I'm cold, Like you want your jacket. He's like, yeah,
(08:05):
maybe in the kitchen tonight too. I brought her in there,
She's like, I want some water. And so it's always,
you know, the wrong cup, the wrong plate. So I've
learned to get ahead of it. Yeah. I think part
of maybe why she might be lashing out is because
she got potty trained this week and then in the
same week we lost her last pacifier and just gave
(08:26):
up on it, and it just unceremoniously. She no longer
gets to wear diapers or have a passive here, and
I think she's sort of like the childhood is gone.
And I think she's like feels a little crazy but
doesn't know why, you know what I mean, Like she's like,
what is happening? She's lost to have her her most
constant comforts in life, because I think it's all wrapped
(08:51):
and something in her mouth. Yeah, she doesn't want to
go to bed, she doesn't want to do anything. She's
just like in a mood. Yeah. I brought her in
the kitchen and it's like lots some water, like okay,
And I pulled out the pink cup because I know what.
I knew that it's what she wanted. She's going to
want the big pink cup. Now. She was like this
and she wanted to be on the counter. I was like,
you can't climb the counter, and I was like, fine,
(09:13):
you want the pink cups. I don't want that cup,
Like what cup do you want? And then she was
just overwhelmed and couldn't give me a choice. I finally
just picked her up and I stood around the counter.
This after like five minutes and then finally she looks
in the cubinet and she's like, I want this pink cup. Yeah,
of course I was like, you mean the one I
knew you wanted to give me a break? Boy. So
(09:37):
I'm going out of town again to New Orleans again
shooting a different commercial. Um, I'm gonna made a commercial
with a professional athlete. I don't know if I'm abowed
to say. Boy, I just made it that made us
sound like a real big deal. Um, maybe it is.
(09:58):
I don't know, but I'm leaving you for three days.
Word than last time. Yeah, it's just so annoying. It's
like there's so many levels of annoyingness to it. It's
like the middle of December. Yeah, it's a bad week.
Last time I went to New Orleans. You recorded the
be half the podcast alone. Yeah, are you happy that
(10:20):
I can't do this that this time? Because we don't
need an episode yet. I was really torning that episode
because boy, I like it when people are thinking about
me when I'm not there. But you know, ah, I'm
I'm selfishly excited as always to have a first class
ticket by myself. I have no complaints, and we have
(10:41):
money to eat food. So they're flying first class. Yeah,
sad contract, baby, that's how it works. Incredible. Well, I'm
going to have fun here, um trying to drag two
kids through the freezing cold. Well in January, you are
going to the Cayman Islands without us, just for fun.
(11:04):
So m hmmm, I don't feel bad. This next segment
is called did you Knows? That's where Peter and I
share some parenting information. So this comes to us actually
from a listener who wrote in and a little weird
(11:25):
because she read, um, something from slates parenting. Um, uh,
what do you call it? Advice column? Um? So it's
a little word that we're just taking somebody else's parenting
excited advice call him. But uh, this writer, Smitty wrote
(11:45):
in and wanted our take on this column, and I
thought it was interesting. Um, so we're gonna read it.
And then, Beth, you have not read this, so I
sort of want your cold hot take if you will, uh,
your cold hot take, which I guess will be a
warm take. All right, So this is Slate's parenting advice column,
(12:09):
has written by Carvel Wallace. So here is the person
writing in. Uh, I live in a small building twenty
six units with some young families and other singles. We
mostly get along very well, except for a family who
has two small children, a four year old girl and
a two year old boy. Sounds familiar. They live across
(12:31):
the courtyard from me, and the children are always crying
and screaming. The mother is always yelling at them inside
their apartment and elsewhere. My next door neighbor, here's the
worst of it. The other day, the mother put the
girl outside the door and closed it because the child
was screaming. She screamed louder than the mother took her
inside and put her in a room and slammed the door,
and the child screamed some more. I don't hear any
(12:53):
of it. My neighbor shares a wall, so she does.
The neighbors who know about this hate what's happening, but
don't want to get involved. I think someone has to
step up to help these children from being mistreated. I've
had family members who were terribly abused, and know lots
of people who were abusive children as well as adults.
They have said, if only someone had said something when
(13:14):
they were growing up, how different their lives may have been.
Father travels a lot for business and isn't home a lot.
He's pretty passive from what I can see. The mother
is the screamer and and uh he tries to calm
her down. She doesn't talk to anyone in the building.
And it's an awful driver too. She always on her cellphone.
Surprised even when the kids stuck their heads through the
(13:35):
garage gate and almost got there, got beheaded when another
neighbor was pulling into the garage. There's a lot of
exclamation points in this letter. We're hoping the family moves
out when the least expires, but that won't end the
abuse slash mistreatment. Everyone else is a big fact chick,
big fat chicken. And I want to help these kids.
Thank you, love, Noisy neighbor. Uh do you want to
(13:58):
hear the reply or do you want to reply? Um?
Maybe just give us the gist of it. I think,
dear Noise neighbor, it's my duty to inform you that
while abuse is terrible, there is an alternate explanation for
everything in this letter. It's called being a parent with
little kids when your co partners never around. Here's something
(14:20):
you may not may not know about kids. They scream
like they are being abused and mistreated even when they
are not being abused or mistreated four year old tantrums. Okay,
I think you get the point. Yeah, I mean this
is mostly my reaction to the this letter. I don't
want to diminish reporting actual abuse, but I think in
(14:42):
the context of this letter, this person hasn't given us
any sign that they are genuinely concerned for the children.
Like I don't know, they just seem pissed at their neighbor. Basically,
I live in fear that this is what our neighbors
think about. Yeah, when they are describing this, it sounds
like exactly like my sunday with the kids is like
(15:03):
they're like running down the hill. When I'm trying to
get them inside, They're both like running in different directions.
I have to yell at them like they like they're
just freaking out. Like if they were a little older
or we had like an enclosed outdoor space, I can
totally see why I would make them stand outside a door,
you know what I mean. It's just like you sometimes
(15:23):
you just need to like walk away from them so
that they stop like acting up. It's just, oh, I
gave them alone time, as like you need to calm down.
We have a little alone time, but I need a
loan time so that I don't murder them. That was
the only way I could get them both inside on
Sunday was just like they were like running all over
the place, both like being bad and taking turns running
(15:45):
away and then they were like, you know, like all
the way down the hill, which none of our listeners
understand what this means, but they uh, they're like I
finally had to just act like I was leaving them
both outside and they're like both getting really sad. But
it was like the only option is just being I
was like I'm done, I'm done trying to carry one
(16:08):
of you while the other one runs away like and
I can't, I mean, I won't. I it's possible that
there is something really problematic happening in the situation, but
nothing that this person wrote leads me to believe that
there is abuse happening. Yeah, And I think the telling
(16:28):
details for me is like if she had been worried
about the kid and then like I've seen these signs
the kid looks sad like that, you know what I mean,
Like if they felt if it felt like this was
someone who's really picking up on like of core problems,
like emotional problem, then I would be like, oh, maybe
there's abuse there. But like the she's picking out the
mom like uses a cell phone, Like it's just like, okay,
(16:50):
you just hate this woman, you know, like you know
this is it's it's the road rage culture, you know
of the internet. You know road rage. You can instantly
despise a person because you don't see their face, and
so you create a person in your head, and in
your head they are the worst. Yeah, well, I mean
face to face, which if she was like so concerned
(17:12):
for the kids in the situation of like she when
she said they almost got decapitated or something by the
garage door. I didn't really understand what was said there,
but it seems like the if she cared, she would
go to the mom and be like, hey, I'm worried
about your kids having this thing happened to them, and
like what how are you doing? You know, like this
(17:33):
is the rest of the advice that's given is like
it sounds like this woman could use some support. Maybe
you should make friends, like you introduce yourself. I agree,
you know, and if there's something, you know, if there
is something terrible going on. That's also the best way
to like look into it further if you introduced yourself
(17:54):
offer help. Um. But yeah, as a as a parent,
who met A talked about this on the podcast before
who spent thirty five minutes on an airplane holding Bryan's
seatbelt on while he screamed you're hurting me over and
over and over for half an hour. Yeah, I can
understand how it might not sound like what it actually is.
(18:19):
Maven was doing that this week where she's decided to
start saying you're hurting me, and I had to just
not respond to it at all because I was like,
this is not something we're going to be saying. I. Yeah,
you have to ignore that. She thinks that it's a tactic. Yeah,
we're doomed. I was like, you know, I've told Bryn
you can't stomp on the floor because the downs are
(18:40):
I'm sure the downs are neighbors, stays neighbors. Yeah, they've
been knocking on the ceiling more and more. Just I
fully understand. I'm sure it's a nightmare down there. Yeah,
but I tell Brand, I was like, you can't stomp
you know downstairs they get angry. So Brand knows that
that matters, and he gets upset and he's angry. He
(19:01):
now specifically stomps. I was like it might have been
a benefit. I said, nothing at all. Yeah, I mean,
he's got your dramatic flair for life, so he's gonna
slam something. It needs to flail a limb in a
dramatic way every now and again. Yesterday he actually he
punched the closet and then he like it must have
(19:21):
hit his knuckle really hard, and he was like oh,
And it was really satisfying for me to be like, yeah,
do you understand why we don't just punch like it
sounds like exactly something I have done in a fight
with you, where I stormed away and punched a bookcase
and really hurt my hand. Uh. Well, we need to
(19:41):
talk about my most vulnerable moment. We fight like any
other couple. Early on, I think we had our most
epic fights where we were figuring out each other's fighting styles.
I have no idea where this is going. Uh, this
is going to one of my one of my lower
moments where I get really I badger, like when we're
(20:05):
gonna fight, I badger you and badger you. And that's
like the worst thing to do if you're trying to
connect with that fun tip everyone so and you will
walk away and then I go ballistic. Well, my friends
and I have been talking about this, and it's like,
I think men don't understand how terrifying it is when
you like corner us physically and just keep doing it
(20:25):
over and over again. It's like being hunted, and it's
like it's so threatening, and um I think you're like,
why is she not listening to me? And you're just
like getting scarier fair enough? Um uh, well that's not Yeah,
(20:45):
I'm not gonna argue with that, but I don't want
I just don't want everyone to think that I'm like
cornering you. I know, I m walked into doorways and
you felt like get out of here. But it just
feels like being cornered when you're like when someone is
like like if someone if you walk away from someone
and they follow you into the other room and then
they are blocking the doorway, that's cornering someone. Like, yeah,
(21:09):
well I don't do that anymore. Yeah, I hope not.
But anyway, I just wanted to say that because I
think a lot of guys do that and it's just
like they think it's expected that they're like supposed to
be aggressive in different situations. Well there's something about like
when we're fighting and you just shut off and literally
walk away, my brain explodes. Yeah, But like this goes
(21:33):
back to the article that I always reference on medium
called men dump their anger into Women. And it's just
like women can have feelings like that of rage and
not like lash out at someone. Like I'm not saying
all women and all men, but like men are more
likely to be like, oh, I have an emotion, like
someone else says to help me deal with it, and
(21:53):
women are like, oh, this sucks. Now I have to
process why this sucks, Like, well, it's taken a decade
being with somebody who is zero percent receptive to such
a thing, where I that is instantly now I know,
like this isn't gonna work out for me. I have
to just stop. But this is not the point of
(22:15):
the story. No, I don't know how I got on
this tangent, but one of the I have about like
when I hear a lot of people's relationship problems, it
feels like it comes down to a lot of this
is just being like badgered, and like it's just very frustrated.
Every couple has to you have to fake, you have
(22:35):
to learn. You have to learn that. Anyway, I think
we're answering a question of anyway. My point was we
were in a big fight and you walked away, and
I had a wine glass in my hand. I literally
said don't but I was like, so frustrating, but don't
walk away, and accidentally hit the wine glass on the table,
and he like squeezed it while also squeezing it was
(22:59):
the bottom of it eating the table, and the whole
thing shattered in my hand. And I looked down in shock,
and there is a significant amount of blood instantly running
down my hand. And you were gone, and I'm looking
at a still in rage but now very vulnerable, and I,
in my smallest voice, just called out, I need help.
(23:23):
You came back in, and you had a flash fear
and then a tiny bit of pity and then just
such resentment that stuff like that, It's just like, well,
it's been a while since I've broken myself or an
object out of anger. Anyway, m my son. Anyway, bringing
(23:51):
up that fun fund memory, it was a shameful It
was a shameful moment. It's a low moment. Anyway, we're
not abusing. But was so angry the other day and
he can be a little He can do a little
bit of hitting sometime, and I was like, not a
big thing. So I brought him to the other room
to calm him down, and I tried something I never
did before. Rush. I was just like I was on
(24:11):
the bed and he was there, and I go, you
know what I like to do when I'm angry. And
then I punched the pillow really hard and he was like.
I was like, it wasn't like scary, it was not
really hard, like hit it enough for him to be
like WHOA. And I was like, that makes me feel better.
And I saw his whole face change and I was like,
(24:32):
I hit it a few more times. I was like,
that makes me feel less angry. And I was like,
you're gonna try. He's like he shook his head eagerly
and he started punching the pillow. You're gonna have to
get him like a punching bag now. And then, honestly,
I wouldn't mind if he had an outlet for this,
because he clearly just has like a need. He needs
he lives in his body, he needs to just he
(24:52):
needs to just dance dance it out anyway, being a
parent is hard. All make friends with a parent who's
having a hard time. This next segment is called would
you Know. This is where Peter or a listener, presents
(25:14):
us with a hypothetical parenting situation and we have to
discuss how we deal with it. We do, and by
we we mean you, Beth, so we gotta would you know?
It's been a little while since we've would you knowsed it?
And this one comes to us from a listener from
England named Charles. Hi, Beth and Peter. Hello from rainy London.
(25:40):
I'm actually American, but have uh been living in London
for about fifteen years, where I member a beautiful English
wife and we now have an amazing four and a
half year old daughter with a mishmash American slash English accent. Uh.
Then some more nice things and a part where he
(26:01):
supports the idea of a Beth button that I will
skip and welcome to that Nope, and then he says
I love the parenting hypothetical. Peter size Brin is a classic.
That is a classic. Check out that episode. I don't
know which one time. Here's one for you. This is
the Marty McFly conundrum. Situation. You have access to a
(26:26):
time traveling DeLorean or Honda fit those are you laughing,
you're real fans, uh, that you could use for just
one trip. You both decide to use that trip to
visit your kids in the future. While there, you see
that one or both of your children were about to
(26:47):
make what you feel is a huge life mistake. You
only have enough time there to try to stop them
from making said mistake, or do nothing and observe. Either way,
you have to go straight back to your original time,
otherwise you might slightly destroy the space time continuum, slash
collapse the universe, slash ends civilization, slash fall into a
(27:10):
plot a plot hole, etcetera. A plot hole it's hard. Uh.
This means you don't know what will happen if you
don't get involved. You also don't know what will happen
if you do. I have to say, I don't understand
this hypothetical at all. You you're going into the future
(27:32):
to maybe prevent your kid from making a vague life
You're going into the future just to check it out.
But when you get there, you see Brendan Maven are
about to make a choice that you feel is terrible,
just a vague bad choice. What could the choice possibly
be before they're about to murders? Before you go on,
(27:53):
you have to listen to the rest of it, okay,
because it addresses what you're doing right now. Question. Do
you intervene and prevent them from making what you perceive
as a big mistake or do you to let it
happen and hope that you raise them well enough to
deal with adversity and learn from their mistakes. Beth, no
picking it apart on technical grounds or invoking multiverse theory.
(28:13):
Just go with it anyway. Thanks for all the laughs.
I hope you keep it going. All the best of
both junior kids. Charles Um. That being said, you do
raise some good questions. I'm just turning about my head
around what this hypothetical implies about my kid, Like if
they're terrible, it's like, I don't know, there's nothing I
(28:34):
can do to change the fact that they've apparently become
terrible people. Well, I think not to not to pull
a bath here, but you go into the future to
see that they're about to make a terrible mistake that
will impact the further future, and you have a choice.
Then the mistake is not about their lives. It's about
the future. It's about the world. No no, no, no, no,
(28:57):
it's about them. It's their lives. But they're gonna make
you go to the future to see them about to
make a choice that may theoretically ruin the rest of
their life. And that's the moment you have to decide
whether it's just given an example of what it should have,
you should have? But then do you do nothing and
go back? But my question is why wouldn't you do
(29:17):
nothing because you don't want to mess with time and
then go back to your original time and then raise
your kids telling them, hey, if this thing ever comes out,
don't do it. Yeah, that's what I don't understand, is
like the fact that you're trying to prevent something in
the future, Like it doesn't make any sense that time.
Like if it was a real marty, you'd have to
(29:38):
go to the past. Oh boy, oh we are nitpicking.
We'll do exactly. It's hard. What kind of mistake is it? Is?
Like if we what have we went to the future
and we're bringing Abron's room and brins, Like all right, see,
we're gonna rob this diamond store, Maven and here's my
(29:59):
plan nothing and they'll go wrong. Where is it like
I'm gonna marry Karen, She's terrible. It's just to me
feels like any choice they make is going to be
for the purpose of like learning a life lesson, and
I don't like they're they just need to have that experience.
I don't know. Yeah, how old are they are? They adults,
(30:19):
which case it's their problem. You know, we did our job. Yeah,
I mean unless they're like literally just going to trip
off a sidewalk and fall into like an evil robot's
mouth or something like, if that's the decision they're about
to make. Wait, wait, wait, I need a picture of
this scene where they're on a sidewalk and just off
(30:41):
the sidewalk is I assuming like a precipice or a manhole,
and in the manhole is just a giant robot with
his mouth a gape well waiting for someone to fall in.
It's not necessarily a manhole. It could just be like
the robots are or like in the future little robot
dogs from the subways, and it's like a population control
(31:03):
like victim blaming thing they've made up um and they're
just constantly like eating holes up through the street that
are there, like no, they're they're held in pins, so
they're not like roving wild, but if you fall in,
it's considered your faults. They're held in pins like pens.
Pens like a pen. I don't want to keep explaining.
(31:26):
I think it's really obvious to everyone else. But the pens,
the robot dog pens are are underground with a whole
big enough that you can fall off a sidewalk. It's
really it's gonna weed out of the people that are
on their phones while they walk down the sidewalk. Yeah. Um,
I'm gonna go ahead, Charles and say, without a concrete
(31:49):
example of what exactly the bad decision is, Um, I'm
gonna say we let them make their own life choices,
and then we go back into I'm and then change
the way we're parents so that they wouldn't even consider
such a thing. I didn't think of that. Or does
that mess with the time space continue I don't care.
(32:11):
You can mess with the time space continuing if it
affects the future, it hasn't happened yet. Just don't mess
with the pass. Yeah, I just I don't think we
have nearly as much control as we think we do,
even if we do have time travel abilities. You know
it's going to happen. Yeah, No, the robots are coming.
(32:31):
I could barely plan tomorrow. You're gonna say Christmas shopping presents.
I'm more I'm on top of it. But boy, this
is a struggle you and I have every year where
I say, please get ahead of it so that I
don't have to hear about it on December as you're
scrambling to print something on a printer that has no wing.
(32:51):
But I gotta say, finding New Orleans has really thrown
a wrench my plans. But I'm still more what you
mean your plans to put it off until the last
minute and keep saying you're on top of to do this.
I'm still more ahead of it than I've ever been.
Um Anyway, Charles, if you've listened to the podcast, you
know Beth needs incredible specifics in a would you notice scenario,
(33:14):
here's everyone's homework. You also wanted specifics. You're just making
me sound like the difficult one because you're not. You're
not answering his question. It's true, I'm giving Charles a note,
but I'm blaming you for the note, Charles, I'll give
it to you straight. Your question needed specific. Okay, it
was a good first draft. I want someone's homework is
(33:38):
to write us in insanely specific would you know scenario
where Beth can't nit pick anything and it has to
have time travel. Unfortunately, unfortunately that's a new rule. No,
whatever it is, I want you to paint a picture.
Let's get some real writers out there to go for it,
and next week we'll read some m a beautiful prose. Anyway,
(34:03):
when we stop them, maybe I don't know what they do.
Now it's time for listeners want to knows. This is
where we take an email and read it and discuss Beth.
You have one, yes. Um. This is a listener who
(34:24):
wrote in in response to our gender discussion. I'm trying
to remember what we were actually talking about last week.
I was changing a diaper. Questions came up, and I,
with no preparation once whatsoever, for the first time, explained
genitalia to my kids. Yeah, not having thought it through. Yeah.
(34:48):
So this listener says, I am the mother of a
four point five year old transgender daughter I had never
knowingly met, although I obviously did without being aware of
it a transgender person before my daughter. She has changed
my world in such an amazing way. I spend so
much of my life advocating for her now. As a
shortened backstory, she was born without incident. We were told
(35:08):
she was a boy based on her anatomy. We raised
her as a boy until she was about twenty two
months old, and she started showing us in a million
little ways that only became more and more obvious. This
time went on that she's actually a girl. I put
as a boy in quotes because raising babies and toddlers
by gender is a very loose guideline. Basically, we dressed
(35:28):
her in typical boy clothes. We never instilled strict gender
roles on either of our kids. We also have a
two point five year old cis gender as far as
we can tell so far, daughter, such as girls get
oh sorry, such a sorry ron on a sentence, but
we never sold gender roles such as girls get these
toys and boys get these toys. By age three, she
told us a dozen times a day that she was
(35:50):
a girl and would correct us if we said anything
that gendered her as a boy. What a smart boy
you are. You're such a funny boy, et cetera. Within
two months of her aiming her gender dozens of times
a day, we allowed her to pick out address at
it at a store. Within four months of her insistence, consistence,
and persistence, we allowed her entire wardrobe to be picked
(36:11):
out by her in the girl section at the store.
By age three point five, we changed her pronouns to
she her, and we changed the spelling of her name
to be more feminine. By age four, I was applying
for a legal name change and gender marker change on
all her legal documents so that she could enter kindergarten
as her true self without a trail of documents denying
(36:31):
her identity. She never once trayed from her insistence of
her gender identity. This extremely shortened version of her story
does not even touch on my story and my husband's
story on how difficult this journey was for us along
the way, Although we are supportive and affirming, and she'll
never know what it's like to be denied for years
or even decades of her true identity, like so many
(36:52):
other transgender kids are. I'm writing to thank you so sorry.
I'm writing to thank you for in gatting so many
marginalized groups in your discussions, especially transgender people. Exposure to
the normality of marginalized people's existence will slowly but surely
normalize my own daughter's existence. I spent an inordinate amount
(37:12):
of time worrying about what she'll encounter in her future.
Now is the better time to grow up transgender than
any other generation before. But still we are probably three
to four decades away from the acceptance level gay people
have right now, which isn't even where it should be either.
I did have one note for you based on this
latest episode, resistance being but I'm sure did not cross
(37:33):
your mind as this gender people but deserves a mention.
When talking about may even and her potty training with
both your kids, it's important, as the woke parents you
are not to say or confirm the statement that girls
have vaginas and boys have penises. That kind of statement
could put a child like mine at risk, even in preschool,
but especially kindergarten and grade school when kids get a
(37:54):
little more understanding about people's bodies. In my family, we
say some girls have vaginas and have penises. We don't
even use most instead of some. Because every single thing
I install in my children, particularly my transgender daughter, makes
a huge difference. One simple statement could give her dysphoria
of her body that could make her want to self
(38:16):
harm as young as five to six years old, not
to mention that scary stuff that could happen at an
older age. She as much is, She is as much
a girl as her likely sis gender sister, and her
genitals don't deny her of her identity. Anyway, I think
I'll end there because I think that last point was
the one I really want to talk about, which is that, UM,
(38:37):
the statistics she was quoting about what this could cause
a transgender kid to do or feel about themselves at
such a young age, I think was, UM, it's upsetting
to hear, but I think I was like, oh, okay,
this is like something we should all be more aware
of so that we can be more cognizant of how
we talk about these issues. Yeah, I was so happy
(39:00):
this person wrote in because it was It's just something
I've I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about.
Um UM working in with story parots where we we
serve every kind of kid there is in including transgender kids.
And through that work, UM, you know, I think when
(39:20):
I first started doing it, I was twenty two was
just like, yeah, we do, you know, we're just having
fun up here. And then the more intitus you you
meet kids and as as we build do the kind
of work that I do. Whenever we're making choices for
stories were performing, we have to remind ourselves like, Okay,
(39:41):
what if I'm this kind of kid and I'm listening
to this story, what does this kind of message say
to uh a gay child, or a child with a
missing limb, or an overweight child, or someone who's minority.
You know, Um, yeah, I feel kind of wouldn't feel
(40:04):
the same way about performing comedy or writing comedy over
the last few years. Is like it, um, if you
care about these issues, you become aware of sort of
like what your work might unintentionally be implying or saying.
And I think it can feel oppressive to like, particularly
white people, to have to like learn about other people's
(40:27):
oppression and like we uh you know sometimes like bristle
at it. But over time you start to realize it's
just like very useful information to have so that you
can be like like a better citizen of the world
and like just connect more with the people around you
and like understand what they're going through you know, it
(40:48):
doesn't like take that much effort to just like listen
when people are upset. You know, well, especially through the
lens of comedy, whereas you become a more mature person
and committe and you start to realize, you know, obviously
that jokes where the joke is simply pointing out that
someone is different, which is a lot more comedy than
(41:09):
you might expect, Like that's not cool to like make
an arbitrary fat joke, and where the joke is like,
oh you're fat, that's shameful. Uh. You can talk about
heavy topics and subjects and sensitive things in comedy so
long as it's speaking to the irrational behavior surrounding such thing. Anyway,
(41:34):
going back to the listener email, Uh, the I thought
this was just a really like I I really appreciate
the way this person laid it out so clearly, um
and thoughtfully, and not in uh any kind of like
blamey way. It was just like she's calmly presenting the facts,
(41:54):
and um I said this before. I think like someone
in this situation knew her. I mean, I don't think
you did anything particularly triggering and what you said, but
I can understand why she would be like, hey, like,
that's something you want to be aware of. UM. It
was very nice of her to not um sort of
send a more upset email. Yeah, well, I it was
(42:18):
obviously something that UM. I have actually thought about this
of how I would explain this to my kids so
that it was inclusive and it wasn't so you know,
strictly binary. But I didn't have a plan, and in
the moment it came up, it was them breaking it
up and ME just being like boys penises. Well, that's
(42:38):
what I really appreciate about this UM email. It's just
like it sort of gives us a game plan where
we just to be honest, had done Like I think
I knew in my head, like, oh, we'll try to
be like honest with our kids about their genitals and
not like make them feel shame around them or whatever.
But I didn't really like think about how that me
(42:59):
discussed their genitals would impact the people around them in
the future, which is like a useful thing to know,
you know, because what I have in that moment have
taught them is that it's this or this, So if
somebody doesn't fit one of those two things. I have
taught my children that that that they're wrong. Yeah, well,
they're like, especially kids of that age, they want to
(43:21):
categorize and they want to know that these are the options.
And when you meet somebody that doesn't fit their options,
they're going to ridicule them without even realizing they're ridiculing them. Yeah,
but I think it's honestly just something they're only just noticing. Like, yes,
but here's the big thing that I was writing to somebody.
I forget. But it's a lot of the times I
(43:44):
think parents can be so scared of getting it wrong,
and I think it is great to be aiming to
sort of be open minded and grow and like quote
unquote get it right. And you know, in this situation,
I was like, oh, yeah, you know what. I like
(44:04):
this the way she spelled it out, That's how I
should have done it. But you have a lifetime to
get this right. Yeah. That was not the only opportunity
I have to explain this to my kids, and it
won't be the last time. Yeah. No. And I think
like the sort of the threats that she mentioned about um,
(44:26):
trans kids, you know, applies more obviously more if your
kid is trans and you need to set that example
for them. Obviously, we all should be striving to. But
I think it's like if you're picking up on your kid,
uh like I don't know, identifying as a girl or whatever,
I don't know you just I mean that if you
(44:46):
have never if you don't have anybody who has experienced that,
and you really haven't heard about that, and your child
is experiencing that, I can imagine that that is a
stressful thing for a parent who feels like they're doing
something wrong. Well, those stories to realize it's okay. Every
case of those stories I've heard has been a child
(45:07):
like this one, where it's just they're just constantly insisting
on this as their identity over a long period of time.
Like kids do have phases and say things they don't understand,
but like if they're feeling something for like an entire
year at at such a young age, like that feels
like a pretty core part of their identity. That's a
(45:28):
really common story for that, at least that I have
heard for transgender kids. It's not every but I think
it's it's good for us to all know about this
because I think you know, when we're overhearing those like
kids have those conversations about like girls do those and
ploys do that. Like I don't think you have to
like shove it down their throats, but you can just
(45:49):
like quietly correct them and move along. And you know
what I mean, Like it's just um, Yeah, if you
like lecture these things angrily at kids, I think they'll
shut down a little. But it's an incredible I mean,
there's not a hot take, but it is incredible how
(46:09):
much this has become a part of the national conversation
in such a short period of time. The fact that
like the new Roseanne which is now not Roseanne, the
Connors were one of the grandkids. It's a is uh,
I don't I don't know what the label is. It
is transgender um but like certainly gender fluid character on
(46:33):
a network comedy um is is exciting. Yeah, And I
think those representations will probably get more sophisticated as time
goes on in terms of portraying like that actual experience,
because I think like when this listener says she's like
not telling half the story of like what she and
her husband went through, It's like there's like a whole
(46:55):
story there to be told. I think of like people's
anxieties around stuff like that, Like it's it's it's not
something you that we obviously want to judge, but you
can acknowledge that it's a struggle for people to like
get on board with things that they haven't been raised with.
And that's like our struggle now is like how do
we create this culture where it's like, yeah, you're just
(47:17):
raised with us and we're not, like, how do we
erase these behaviors ingrained in us? Uh? Well, thank you, Jennifer. UM,
that is appreciated and needed perspective. Um, that uh that
we thank you for. This has been listeners Wanna knows.
(47:47):
This has been another episode of We Knows Parenting. I'm
Peter McNerney. That's Beth NEWTLL. If you want to reach
out send us a question, a story, some advice, you
can email us at we Knows Pod at gmail dot
com or fine just on the social media's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
at we Knows Pod. You can also leave us a
voicemail at three four seven three eight four seven three
(48:11):
nine six if you'd like to record your question. UM,
we'd love that you. Please rate, review, and subscribe to
us on iTunes. Um, please really really helps us out. Please,
that's don't don't whine um our theme songs by Mates State.
Check them out. I'm gonna go get on a plane.
(48:34):
I love you Bath
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Peter McNerney
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