October 19, 2023 • 32 mins
Embracing a purpose-driven journey, Roy and Perfecto stand at the frontline of change, championing sustainability, and emphasizing the importance of leadership growth and a brand's purpose, all without formal marketing training.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Season two of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and
coming stars in advertising as well as the biggest legends
in the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
We're your hosts, Hailey Romer.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
And Ross Martin. Now let's meet the.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Legends Perfecto Sanchez. I can't tell you how happy I
am to meet you. For those of you listening, yes,
Perfecto is being inducted into the Advertising Hall of Achievement,
(00:52):
which recognizes you, Perfecto, for your incredible contribution to the
ad industry and the communities around you. But you are
also the Jack Avritz Spirit Award, which specifically calls out
one individual within the inductee class who's gone even above
and beyond the incredibly high bar for the Advertising Hall
of Achievement.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'll start with this, Perfecto.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
There isn't a single person who knows you who hasn't
essentially fallen over themselves when they hear your name, because
it seems your impact and intent is truly undeniable.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You are, as I've heard a really.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Exceptional and unique soul, and I have to say, as
I've learned about you, I really have been dying to
meet you. So first of all, Perfecto, thank you for
your service and for those of you listening, in case
you're not familiar, Prior to Perfecto's career in advertising, he
spent six years as an Army ranger and served as
a platoon leader in Iraq, for which you were recognized
(01:47):
with a Bronze Star and the Army Commendation Medal for valor.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It is impossible, Perfecto, to think about how one makes
a jump from that to the world of advertising, and
yet it's important to know that you've used your platform
in advertising to continue your service for our country and
to help create change in so many other amazing ways.
(02:13):
Since this recognition is from the American Advertising Federation, it's
necessary that we discussed your impact on the advertising industry
as well as all of the other incredible things you do.
So I'm just going to do a little bit of
your advertising impact intro here. You began your advertising career
at Craft and then dan Own, launching brands like Meo
(02:34):
and driving record growth for Ritz Crackers, and from there
you went on to lead marketing for Oikos Yogurt and
evy On water. But as I understand it, you realize
you could affect change in a much more broad way
by launching your own for purpose advertising agency, Keeping the
Change back in twenty fifteen with the mission to shape
(02:54):
a more sustainable and equitable world by amplifying the potential
of people and systems. And from there you've gone on
to help countless brands, CEOs, city officials, fund managers, and
more to drive outcomes for good. Of course, though Perfecto
hasn't stopped there. You've launched initiatives around the country in
so many areas which have driven recognizable change and positive outcomes.
(03:17):
You volunteer run Criminal Justice Reformed. You've rowed across the
North Sea to raise awareness for ocean sustainability. You've helped
raise money to increase access to education.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Perfecto.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I can't possibly list all you do without taking up
the full podcast, so I'll just stop there and say, Wow,
it's great to have you here with us.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Thank you so much, Hayley. It's an honor.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What's more than that is, in conversation with Perfecto, we
have none other than the legendary Roy Spence. Roy hardly
needs an introduction, as he is the legendary founder of
GSDNM and Roy is the co founder of The Purpose Institute.
The Purpose Institute is a consulting firm that helps people
and organizations discover their live purpose. And Roy also co
(04:02):
authored the Wall Street Journal best selling book It's Not
what You Sell, It's what you stand for and why
every extraordinary business is driven by purpose. So naturally you
two are going to have a lot to talk about.
It's worth noting too. Under Spence's leadership, your agency has
helped grow some of the world's most successful brands like
Don't Mess With Texas, Southwestern Airlines, Walmart, DreamWorks, the PGA Tour, BMW,
(04:26):
the US Air Force LLBAN, and the Clinton Global Initiative.
Roy has been a trusted advisor to legendary leaders, including
Sam Walton and the Southwest Airlines founder Herb kelliher his
counsel has also been sought by US presidents and leaders
in the State Department. Spence has received a Lifetime Achievement
Award from the Austin Advertising Federation and was named Admin
(04:49):
of the Century by Texas Monthly Magazine. He was inducted
to the McCombs School of Business Hall of Fame in
twenty twelve. You're also a senior advisor to Gallop and
a deep believe are in entrepreneurship being the miracle of America.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So Roy Spence, welcome to the podcast. It's so great to.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Have you and really really great to have you here
in conversation with Perfecto.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Well, first of all, Hailey, thank you, and also too,
I was admin of the centry because they didn't know Perfecto.
If they'd have known the sumer I'm not kidding you, sir.
You know I have not really spent time together, but
your journey, God bless you for everything that you've done.
You know, we've represented the United States Air Force for
twenty five years and now the Space Force and your
(05:37):
purpose driven journey there on the front lines and now
in the front lines of keeping change. Being in the
arena you have, you are remarkable and I'm not going
to suck up anymore, but I'm going tech me. Sir.
You are in the arena for change and you're in
(05:57):
the arena for good. So it's great to be here
with all of you. And Haley, you're awesome too. I'm
not just saying okay, so but you know, looking at
your journey, sir, and the fact that we've come from
different places and now come together. Sometimes destiny and comes
for looking for goodness. And you know, I found out
(06:20):
a long time ago you become what you look for.
I took a walk across America about fifteen years ago,
about twelve states, and I was just on the road
for goodness, trying to find goodness. And I woke up
one day and I started writing this idea that you
become what you look for. If you look for enemies,
(06:41):
you'll find them. If you look for hate, it'll follow you.
And I just kept writing, and then I realized, if
you look for friends, you'll be befriended. If you look
for love, it'll lift you up. And if you look
for hope, it'll take you to higher ground. And kind
of looking for goodness, and I found you, and I
(07:02):
want to ask you a couple of things. So, just
as you've been on your journey a long time ago,
a friend of mine who I can't say, but he
talks up like this, you know I'm talking about. He said,
lessons learned in life Roy And I kept saying, you know,
you don't know anything you learn everything. Sam Walton taught
me curiosity doesn't kill the cat, it kills the competition
(07:25):
killing her. By the way, founder of Southwest, he had
twenty eight airplanes and he hired me. I was twenty
eight years old, and he said, always remember the golden rule.
Now this is a CEO and he says, your number
one customer is your employees. You treat them right, they'll
treat other people right. And so many lessons learned on
(07:48):
the road. What lessons kind of have you learned? I
know you've been on this road and journey for amazing
amount of time, but what kind of key lessons have
you learned?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
First of all, Roy, it truly is an honor to
meet you, and I thank you for paving the way.
I've been a huge fan of all of your work
for such a long time, and truly, if it wasn't
for your vision of really championing purpose and change in
the boardroom, I really don't think my career would be possible.
(08:24):
And so I very much want to thank you and
for all that you've done and you continue to do.
And I love your question, and it's I think it's
a two part answer. One growing up and and talk
about the American dreaming. I grew up in Section eight housing,
in a single mother household in the projects in Harlem,
(08:44):
and you know, my grandmother was a pivotabal role in
my life. And when I came home from school, she
would ask me not what I learned that day, but
if I asked any good questions, And that very much
taught me to take an innate interest in what other
people have to say. And I think I'm going to
(09:06):
misattribute this quote to Abraham Lincoln, so forgive me, and
you can we can fix this in posts. But I
think he said every person is my superior and that
I can learn something from them, And I think, you
know that has really guided my life of how can
I operate on teams to really understand how to one
(09:27):
play my role and contribute but also help the team
get better. Yea, And I would be remiss if I
didn't really just talk about my time in military and
my platoon sergeant who really guided me in my first
duty as a patoon leader and really entered quite possibly
the most difficult position where I met my unit when
(09:51):
they were already in Iraq and I was replacing a
beloved patoon leader that had just been killed in action,
and my opportunity starts in our NCOs. In the United
States military are just really the backbone. But he said,
it's a privilege to lead. It's not a right, but
(10:11):
it's truly a privilege and sort of that has guided
me in my in every team that I've ever been on.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
That's amazing. I had never thought about that. And you know,
I think when we when we look at leadership and
we respected him by the way, we need leadership, yes,
we do. We need to cut the partisanship. We need
to build a ship of state. Again. I don't know
(10:39):
why I'm getting off on this, but the ship idea
of leadership, partnership, we been needed to build a ship
again here in BacT what you're talking about. You know,
yesterday twenty two years nine to eleven, and I was
just talking to my friends, and you know, we were
in Annapolis during that happened. Our client was land Rover
(11:02):
and all all the Air Force and I wake up
and this happens, and so we're all trying to get home,
like you know, and we started saying what can we do?
And we wrote this thing called I'm an American. I'm
about to cry. But we basically nineteen twenty forty hours
(11:24):
driving home to Austin, we called all the producers and said, look,
we just want you to go out there and film
people to say I'm an American. And got home and
we and it started running and we ended the spot
perfecto with e pluribus unim. And I got so many
(11:47):
notes from Latin teachers saying thank you for reminding us
the first motto of America was out of many one.
And so back to your point, when you're in that
leadership position, and he said to you, it's a privilege
to lead, and it hit you like it's not a riot.
(12:09):
It's a privilege and you have to earn it every
day and you have, sir. And nine to eleven, I'm
an American ran everywhere, and I got stacks of I
don't know if people remember cursive. You don't because you're young.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I do.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Stacks of letter, literally hundreds and thousands of letters. It
was sent to us because people were saying I was
in the airport with my daughter and I saw I'm
an American, and I saw myself in it. And I
say that only because I think what you're doing and
what we've tried to do. I believe marketing can be
(12:46):
a force for good. And yeah, we got a client.
And that's why purpose came into my life. Because a
little quick story. I grew up in a little town
and my mom was a school teacher when she taught civics.
And we'll talk to you about that, because you're preaching
it now. We need to teach civics again. And my
(13:07):
sister had final diffident and she was old her and
supposed to die when she was four days. She lived
to be forty nine years old because of my mom.
And we'd take her to the bathroom and rub her legs,
and I pushed her to school every day. I couldn't
even see over the thing. And she graduated from high school. Wow,
(13:27):
and this is nineteen fifties, and she went to a
community college, which are my heroes, and don't get mad
all but every Sunday I push her around, would listen
to the Dallas Cowboys, don't get mad, be calm and
Eve w of Burger's. She passed away. I realized all
(13:47):
those years I thought I'd been pushing her, she'd been
pushing me. And that's where it comes to with your grandmother.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Thank you for sharing, right, you know, she'd been pushing me.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
So your journey has been amazing. And what do you
what do you think in terms of marketing is a
force for good?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Well, I think that marketing what drew me to marketing.
And listen, don't tell anyone I told you this, Roy,
But I've never taken a marketing class a day of
my either.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
To ut but I didn't go to class. You kidning
seriously taking them.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
I believe you you need. I think we would have
been friends back in college. We can be friends now.
But in my job interview at Craft, I wanted the
job so bad because what they told me this thing
marketing was was it's a platform that first of all,
(14:45):
it was cross functional leadership that really, a really good
marketer sits at the hub of the wheel to inspire storyteller,
to galvanize, to create. And I think that's such a
beautiful thing that we, in our sacred profession have the
ability to do. But I wanted the job so bad.
In my interview, I said, if I can sell democracy,
(15:09):
I can sell powdered soft drinks. And I was like,
whatever I need to do to get this job, I
want this job. And Roxanne Bernstein, bless her like she's
truly the most incredible human being and was my first boss,
hired me on the spot and truly shaped me to
be the market I am today. But it really was
(15:30):
born out of a passion that we have the ability
to tell stories that are going to influence behavior.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Perfecto, I want to ask you a question about that.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You started keeping the change in twenty fifteen, and obviously
purpose is something that has taken on a life of
its own, and you were way ahead of the curve
with respect to brands thinking about purpose and really going
out there and publicly talking about it and integrating into marketing.
And yet over the past let's say a year or so,
(16:01):
you're seeing a bit of a swing away from that.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Dare I say?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And so, how are you navigating the new waters with
respect to making sure that brands keep on track with
this and that they understand that measurement is important, that
that real outcomes are important. How are you staying ahead
of this next sort of wave of thinking about purpose
with respect to brands and marketing and outcomes.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I've always believed that people want to do good, yes,
but they just don't know how. And it's our job
as marketers to create those solutions, and so we just
hope that we can be ahead of a curve before
it happens. And so over the last two years, I've
been working in AI and data to really aggregate a
(16:47):
lot of the information that is really happening in our communities,
so I can work with brands to show them that
investing in purpose, investing in your stakeholders, not just shareholders,
is how you can create sustainable growth. Evan Schrepearr the
CEO and founder of Patagonia. His vision was not to
create a company that will last the next ten years,
(17:09):
but the next one hundred years. And so I believe
that with data, and that's why I launched equity Quotient
with my incredible co founder, Christina van Houghton, which is
a data platform that helps organizations and brands measure and
manage the impact of their investments. So it's not just
a buzzword, but it's tangible, like you know, and Roy,
(17:33):
I can't wait to learn more about, you know, the
future of work and workforce development and the dignity of work.
I mean, if we recognize that offering people in this country,
you know, a livable wage, how that offers them the
opportunity to live their purpose. That is how I think
we can actually have much more conscious conversation around how
(17:55):
we collectively move forward and what I'm investing in now.
He is data as a solution to do that, and
with AI filling in the gaps where there is not
data on a lot of the overlooked populations that have
not been included in the economy in the past. And
(18:16):
a really quick example is look at the formally incarcerated population.
It costs New York State five hundred and forty six
thousand dollars to keep someone locked up in Rikers Island
per year, and yet there's so much legislation that prevents
a returning citizen from getting access to a paying job.
(18:39):
And so if we can address the employment gap in
this country, I think, you know, including more people into
the economy, we can start really fulfilling the promise of
our nation and what brought us together in the first place,
which is to be a more perfect union.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
On that too, there is a group calls Stand Together
and it's a big believer in the Second Chance movement
all and I know you're engaged with it, but I'd
love to maybe talk to you about that too, because
second Chance and I got America needs it to. We've
(19:18):
made mistakes, yes we do, so we'll talk about that.
But I love what you're saying, we need to give
people second chance exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I love how much you two are on the same page, because,
first of all, as you think about bringing together people
from such different backgrounds and finding common ground, it hasn't
taken much to find the common ground between the two
of you. But I think it's really interesting how both
of your careers have sort of dovetailed between public and
(19:49):
private sectors. And I'm curious to hear from both of
you about the learnings you know that kind of translate
back and forth. And for example, Perfecto, your experience in
the service, I mean, how did that help you when
you jump to a Fortune five hundred company In the
sort of reverse way. Roy, You've had so many incredible
(20:11):
mentors and experiences in the corporate world that now you're
leveraging in the public sector.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So I'd be curious to hear from both of you
about that.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Oh there you go. First, Roy, Yeah, well you're.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Hey. First of all, that's a great question, and second,
I don't have all the answers. Really, I think that
you know, when you back to your point. I wrote
a book called The Ten Essential Hugs of Life. My
daddy was a hugger. He was six or five. I
don't know what happened to me, but anyway, he taught
me to be kind everybody you meet. And he taught
(20:47):
me hug you boys, they need it too. And then
he taught me that don't do mild in life. So
when he passed away, I have my own salsa and
it's called roy ETOs because his name was Roy and
he called me leroy, and he said, remember, don't do
mild in life. So anyway, I think that we all
(21:11):
have journeys and we got to, you know, be observant
of everybody has. You know, everyone's different, and I celebrate
that instead of trying to make everybody well. No, God
made us all different. Sorry. In fact, my mom rest
her soul, said, now, Roy, if you ever get married,
I've been forty seven years. Remember do you know how
(21:33):
to spell together? And I went, I'm a terrible speller,
and she'd say, spell it two.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Love it.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
That's together, America. We need to spell together t W.
We're two different types of people, but we can come
together on higher ground. And so I think the lessons
I learned from all the my sisters, my mom's, all
the things going through school. I met my four partners,
(22:02):
by the way, y'all know, at the University of Texas.
They were marketing. I wasn't. And we stayed together for
fifty years. And when I tell that, for the fact
that the people they go what you were to give
the same people for fifty years, and I said, yep,
back to everybody wants to be a partner. They just
(22:22):
don't want to deal with the ship. Back to the ship.
America needs to build a ship again. While we're rolling
together two people and I'm not trying to be tried
about all this, but and we're not going to get
there until we have a higher purpose articulated. That's what
you're working on. And I think if we come together
(22:43):
on that idea, that we have a higher calling than
what we're listening to right now. And again, we've got
to sink to partisanships and build a ship of state.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
That's a long winded, sorry way of saying I think
purpose has got to rule in that politics.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, and again, Roy, you paved the way, and so
we're in it together. And like and you know two
plus two equals five. And I love just how your
partners and you know, how you've built a community around
purpose and inspired you know, if I may say, the
next generation, So thank you again. And to answer your question, heally,
if I could think of what I parlayed from my
(23:26):
time in service to my corporate career is people are
the greatest asset to any organization period and the military
really ingrained that in me as well. First and foremost,
take care of soldiers and really take care of your team.
(23:47):
And and I am not here today because of like
I could run faster, or you know, or lift more.
It's like when I was in Iraq, I looking someone
in the eye, regardless that we didn't speak the same language,
and offering them respect and dignity that we were in
their country. And you want to talk about branding, I
recognized that I represented the brand of America.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
And so this this was going to be probably their
only experience with if this was the only experience with
an American and I wanted I wanted it to be
a positive one. And I was an infantry officer, and
so I wasn't always there for the best of reasons,
but I learned that people are the greatest assets any organization.
And I look at, you know, the world that I'm
(24:31):
in the world of data, and I'm in the business
of making sure that all people are represented in data,
especially this brave new world that we're in with AI,
that we are creating a society that everyone does have
a seat at the table because we are better together.
As Roy would say.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Yep together boy, perfected.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
As people are getting into, certainly the advertising industry today,
or if perhaps somebody were joining the arm service and
thinking of a second career at some point, what's your
advice to them?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I mean, I think it's everyone does have a unique purpose,
and I think the more that you, as an individual
along your journey can really recognize what is your truth.
Everyone has a unique truth and to really align how
(25:25):
best you what is your superpower and how you can
sort of show up in whatever capacity you may be
entering into and whether it's in the armed services, there's
a plethora of options in jobs. You know, I joined
the Army for many reasons, go army, be a Navy.
But you know, as someone potentially explores the advertising field
(25:46):
or like or the craft of advertising, there's so many
opportunities whether you want to be a writer, a producer,
a creative, a project manager, every superpower is welcome. And
I think more importantly, if you recognize that you're entering
a time honored profession that has for a long time
(26:07):
really like champion to change. We would love anyone that
is curious about how advertised it can help them find
their purpose. I would strongly encourage it. And I think
the hardest thing to do in life, and I'm curious
of your thoughts of this, Roy, I think the hardest
thing to do in life is to love yourself. And
(26:28):
that's part of also finding your own purpose, and so
that's part of the journey. And I think I think
that's what I think keeps me going, is that I'm
forever learning and growing and and Roy, you said this
at the top of the call, and I just want
to really honor it, Like if you seek love, you'll
find love. And you know, if you seek a friend,
(26:50):
you're going to find a friend. And so I think
the advice I would give to anyone looking is to
really honor your story, your path, your history, your culture,
and to be proud of it and to celebrate that
and to have that come across as part of your truth.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
You know one thing on that one in which you
just said the best when I didn't write the Hugs book.
The first there's ten essential You gotta first hug yourself.
You can't love your neighbor if you don't love yourself,
and that's different than being in love with yourself. But
hug yourself. Second, you got to hug where you came from,
(27:28):
no matter where we all come from somewhere, and you
run from it, it'll catch you. And then you gotta
hug your friends because you never know. You gotta hug
your family, your olifts and by the way, you don't
have to like them all. And when Mandela we're in
(27:48):
the cell together and he was telling the present about it,
he said, they took away this, and they took away
in my wife, and they took but they didn't take
away my future because I would have had to give
it to them and I refused. Final thing is you
got to hug your future, whatever that is. But back
to your point, you can't love others if you don't
(28:12):
love yourself. And purpose helps you love yourself good, better
and different. Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
This is such a beautiful conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I love that Roy like truly beautiful.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, I just say thing one thing about perfecto and
you can lead this because I'm a little bit older.
But I think as we're looking at this, looking for
goodness and looking for things that we all can go
to a higher ground on, we've got to go back
to the point you're making, especially with the make It movement,
and our goal is to help the culture of education
(28:48):
change from testing to talent. And I don't mean we don't,
but that the focus of finding a young person's again,
I can't spell, and I told us all this story
and puts your arm around and says you can't spill,
but you can write. And I don't want you to
spend another second of your life trying to be average
at what you're bad at. We got to have this
(29:10):
is one of the big thing I think we can
all rise to, and that is why don't we find
young people and find out what they're good at so
they can become great at it instead of beat them
up on trying to be average what they're bad at.
Does that make sense? And I think that's one of
the things we can talk about as well. How do
we measure that.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I'd love to work with you on that, Roy, And
I think one of the questions Roy, like you know,
you've had an incredible, incredible and because I'm really curious
about this, like you had such incredible career. You've again
worked in both public and private sector. You know from
talk about campaigns. If we were to talk about a
(29:52):
political campaign or like if maybe it there's a better
word other than politics, like a campaign for America. Yeah,
what would your mess.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
I think part of it And I don't have the answer,
we all do, but I think the idea is there
if we ponder this and we say, is there anything
we all agree on? And no one's articulated that, and
it's not freedom, and it's we were called to America
(30:24):
was born different, not perfect, as we all know, we
were born different, and we had made mistakes. But it
was about the idea that when we were at our best,
when we are at our best, every person has the
ability to develop their full potential when we're at our best.
And I think as we're looking at our calling, as
(30:44):
we got to leave new generation better, often we found it,
we're not living up to that. And y'all are a
lot younger than me. But I would say if I
could say it. I would call America to say, let's
leave the place better than we found it and make
that the platform. And then we say, oh, we're doing
it for our kids. No, well, here's the solution. Are
(31:04):
we doing it for our climate?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
No?
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Well here, so we're going to leave the place better
than we found it.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
I love that. I don't know, I said, I love it.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
If we're going to leave the place better than we
found it, how are we doing on education? How are
we doing on the climate? How all right? If we're
going to leave it better than we found it, we
better figure out where we are before we Yeah, yeah,
that's our calling. We've got to leave the place better
than we found it.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Here for it, Amen.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Roy is not a marketing genius and legend for no
reason or by accident.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
So I love that too. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you for sharing that, Roy, thank you for the question, Perfecto,
and thank you both so much for joining us here today.
I know that our listeners are going to learn so much,
not just about the two of you, which is something
that we love about this podcast, but about how they
can and should be thinking about their own purpose and
about how the fact that when you find your purpose
(32:09):
it can help to lead greater change, lead to greater change,
or for greater change in the community and the world
more broadly around us. So thank you and thanks for
being so inspiring. Thank you for all your work and
come back.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Thank you, Haley, thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
We're going to get together, promise absolutely Well.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That does it for this episode of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on Ihearten.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Romer, and thank you
for listening. We'll be back with another episode before you
know it. And for more information on the American Advertising Federation,
go to AAF dot org.
Hello and welcome to Season two of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and
coming stars in advertising as well as the biggest legends
in the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
We're your hosts, Hailey Romer.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
And Ross Martin. Now let's meet the.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Legends Perfecto Sanchez. I can't tell you how happy I
am to meet you. For those of you listening, yes,
Perfecto is being inducted into the Advertising Hall of Achievement,
(00:52):
which recognizes you, Perfecto, for your incredible contribution to the
ad industry and the communities around you. But you are
also the Jack Avritz Spirit Award, which specifically calls out
one individual within the inductee class who's gone even above
and beyond the incredibly high bar for the Advertising Hall
of Achievement.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'll start with this, Perfecto.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
There isn't a single person who knows you who hasn't
essentially fallen over themselves when they hear your name, because
it seems your impact and intent is truly undeniable.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You are, as I've heard a really.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Exceptional and unique soul, and I have to say, as
I've learned about you, I really have been dying to
meet you. So first of all, Perfecto, thank you for
your service and for those of you listening, in case
you're not familiar, Prior to Perfecto's career in advertising, he
spent six years as an Army ranger and served as
a platoon leader in Iraq, for which you were recognized
(01:47):
with a Bronze Star and the Army Commendation Medal for valor.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It is impossible, Perfecto, to think about how one makes
a jump from that to the world of advertising, and
yet it's important to know that you've used your platform
in advertising to continue your service for our country and
to help create change in so many other amazing ways.
(02:13):
Since this recognition is from the American Advertising Federation, it's
necessary that we discussed your impact on the advertising industry
as well as all of the other incredible things you do.
So I'm just going to do a little bit of
your advertising impact intro here. You began your advertising career
at Craft and then dan Own, launching brands like Meo
(02:34):
and driving record growth for Ritz Crackers, and from there
you went on to lead marketing for Oikos Yogurt and
evy On water. But as I understand it, you realize
you could affect change in a much more broad way
by launching your own for purpose advertising agency, Keeping the
Change back in twenty fifteen with the mission to shape
(02:54):
a more sustainable and equitable world by amplifying the potential
of people and systems. And from there you've gone on
to help countless brands, CEOs, city officials, fund managers, and
more to drive outcomes for good. Of course, though Perfecto
hasn't stopped there. You've launched initiatives around the country in
so many areas which have driven recognizable change and positive outcomes.
(03:17):
You volunteer run Criminal Justice Reformed. You've rowed across the
North Sea to raise awareness for ocean sustainability. You've helped
raise money to increase access to education.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Perfecto.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I can't possibly list all you do without taking up
the full podcast, so I'll just stop there and say, Wow,
it's great to have you here with us.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Thank you so much, Hayley. It's an honor.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What's more than that is, in conversation with Perfecto, we
have none other than the legendary Roy Spence. Roy hardly
needs an introduction, as he is the legendary founder of
GSDNM and Roy is the co founder of The Purpose Institute.
The Purpose Institute is a consulting firm that helps people
and organizations discover their live purpose. And Roy also co
(04:02):
authored the Wall Street Journal best selling book It's Not
what You Sell, It's what you stand for and why
every extraordinary business is driven by purpose. So naturally you
two are going to have a lot to talk about.
It's worth noting too. Under Spence's leadership, your agency has
helped grow some of the world's most successful brands like
Don't Mess With Texas, Southwestern Airlines, Walmart, DreamWorks, the PGA Tour, BMW,
(04:26):
the US Air Force LLBAN, and the Clinton Global Initiative.
Roy has been a trusted advisor to legendary leaders, including
Sam Walton and the Southwest Airlines founder Herb kelliher his
counsel has also been sought by US presidents and leaders
in the State Department. Spence has received a Lifetime Achievement
Award from the Austin Advertising Federation and was named Admin
(04:49):
of the Century by Texas Monthly Magazine. He was inducted
to the McCombs School of Business Hall of Fame in
twenty twelve. You're also a senior advisor to Gallop and
a deep believe are in entrepreneurship being the miracle of America.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So Roy Spence, welcome to the podcast. It's so great to.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Have you and really really great to have you here
in conversation with Perfecto.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Well, first of all, Hailey, thank you, and also too,
I was admin of the centry because they didn't know Perfecto.
If they'd have known the sumer I'm not kidding you, sir.
You know I have not really spent time together, but
your journey, God bless you for everything that you've done.
You know, we've represented the United States Air Force for
twenty five years and now the Space Force and your
(05:37):
purpose driven journey there on the front lines and now
in the front lines of keeping change. Being in the
arena you have, you are remarkable and I'm not going
to suck up anymore, but I'm going tech me. Sir.
You are in the arena for change and you're in
(05:57):
the arena for good. So it's great to be here
with all of you. And Haley, you're awesome too. I'm
not just saying okay, so but you know, looking at
your journey, sir, and the fact that we've come from
different places and now come together. Sometimes destiny and comes
for looking for goodness. And you know, I found out
(06:20):
a long time ago you become what you look for.
I took a walk across America about fifteen years ago,
about twelve states, and I was just on the road
for goodness, trying to find goodness. And I woke up
one day and I started writing this idea that you
become what you look for. If you look for enemies,
(06:41):
you'll find them. If you look for hate, it'll follow you.
And I just kept writing, and then I realized, if
you look for friends, you'll be befriended. If you look
for love, it'll lift you up. And if you look
for hope, it'll take you to higher ground. And kind
of looking for goodness, and I found you, and I
(07:02):
want to ask you a couple of things. So, just
as you've been on your journey a long time ago,
a friend of mine who I can't say, but he
talks up like this, you know I'm talking about. He said,
lessons learned in life Roy And I kept saying, you know,
you don't know anything you learn everything. Sam Walton taught
me curiosity doesn't kill the cat, it kills the competition
(07:25):
killing her. By the way, founder of Southwest, he had
twenty eight airplanes and he hired me. I was twenty
eight years old, and he said, always remember the golden rule.
Now this is a CEO and he says, your number
one customer is your employees. You treat them right, they'll
treat other people right. And so many lessons learned on
(07:48):
the road. What lessons kind of have you learned? I
know you've been on this road and journey for amazing
amount of time, but what kind of key lessons have
you learned?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
First of all, Roy, it truly is an honor to
meet you, and I thank you for paving the way.
I've been a huge fan of all of your work
for such a long time, and truly, if it wasn't
for your vision of really championing purpose and change in
the boardroom, I really don't think my career would be possible.
(08:24):
And so I very much want to thank you and
for all that you've done and you continue to do.
And I love your question, and it's I think it's
a two part answer. One growing up and and talk
about the American dreaming. I grew up in Section eight housing,
in a single mother household in the projects in Harlem,
(08:44):
and you know, my grandmother was a pivotabal role in
my life. And when I came home from school, she
would ask me not what I learned that day, but
if I asked any good questions, And that very much
taught me to take an innate interest in what other
people have to say. And I think I'm going to
(09:06):
misattribute this quote to Abraham Lincoln, so forgive me, and
you can we can fix this in posts. But I
think he said every person is my superior and that
I can learn something from them, And I think, you
know that has really guided my life of how can
I operate on teams to really understand how to one
(09:27):
play my role and contribute but also help the team
get better. Yea, And I would be remiss if I
didn't really just talk about my time in military and
my platoon sergeant who really guided me in my first
duty as a patoon leader and really entered quite possibly
the most difficult position where I met my unit when
(09:51):
they were already in Iraq and I was replacing a
beloved patoon leader that had just been killed in action,
and my opportunity starts in our NCOs. In the United
States military are just really the backbone. But he said,
it's a privilege to lead. It's not a right, but
(10:11):
it's truly a privilege and sort of that has guided
me in my in every team that I've ever been on.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
That's amazing. I had never thought about that. And you know,
I think when we when we look at leadership and
we respected him by the way, we need leadership, yes,
we do. We need to cut the partisanship. We need
to build a ship of state. Again. I don't know
(10:39):
why I'm getting off on this, but the ship idea
of leadership, partnership, we been needed to build a ship
again here in BacT what you're talking about. You know,
yesterday twenty two years nine to eleven, and I was
just talking to my friends, and you know, we were
in Annapolis during that happened. Our client was land Rover
(11:02):
and all all the Air Force and I wake up
and this happens, and so we're all trying to get home,
like you know, and we started saying what can we do?
And we wrote this thing called I'm an American. I'm
about to cry. But we basically nineteen twenty forty hours
(11:24):
driving home to Austin, we called all the producers and said, look,
we just want you to go out there and film
people to say I'm an American. And got home and
we and it started running and we ended the spot
perfecto with e pluribus unim. And I got so many
(11:47):
notes from Latin teachers saying thank you for reminding us
the first motto of America was out of many one.
And so back to your point, when you're in that
leadership position, and he said to you, it's a privilege
to lead, and it hit you like it's not a riot.
(12:09):
It's a privilege and you have to earn it every
day and you have, sir. And nine to eleven, I'm
an American ran everywhere, and I got stacks of I
don't know if people remember cursive. You don't because you're young.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I do.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Stacks of letter, literally hundreds and thousands of letters. It
was sent to us because people were saying I was
in the airport with my daughter and I saw I'm
an American, and I saw myself in it. And I
say that only because I think what you're doing and
what we've tried to do. I believe marketing can be
(12:46):
a force for good. And yeah, we got a client.
And that's why purpose came into my life. Because a
little quick story. I grew up in a little town
and my mom was a school teacher when she taught civics.
And we'll talk to you about that, because you're preaching
it now. We need to teach civics again. And my
(13:07):
sister had final diffident and she was old her and
supposed to die when she was four days. She lived
to be forty nine years old because of my mom.
And we'd take her to the bathroom and rub her legs,
and I pushed her to school every day. I couldn't
even see over the thing. And she graduated from high school. Wow,
(13:27):
and this is nineteen fifties, and she went to a
community college, which are my heroes, and don't get mad
all but every Sunday I push her around, would listen
to the Dallas Cowboys, don't get mad, be calm and
Eve w of Burger's. She passed away. I realized all
(13:47):
those years I thought I'd been pushing her, she'd been
pushing me. And that's where it comes to with your grandmother.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Thank you for sharing, right, you know, she'd been pushing me.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
So your journey has been amazing. And what do you
what do you think in terms of marketing is a
force for good?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Well, I think that marketing what drew me to marketing.
And listen, don't tell anyone I told you this, Roy,
But I've never taken a marketing class a day of
my either.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
To ut but I didn't go to class. You kidning
seriously taking them.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
I believe you you need. I think we would have
been friends back in college. We can be friends now.
But in my job interview at Craft, I wanted the
job so bad because what they told me this thing
marketing was was it's a platform that first of all,
(14:45):
it was cross functional leadership that really, a really good
marketer sits at the hub of the wheel to inspire storyteller,
to galvanize, to create. And I think that's such a
beautiful thing that we, in our sacred profession have the
ability to do. But I wanted the job so bad.
In my interview, I said, if I can sell democracy,
(15:09):
I can sell powdered soft drinks. And I was like,
whatever I need to do to get this job, I
want this job. And Roxanne Bernstein, bless her like she's
truly the most incredible human being and was my first boss,
hired me on the spot and truly shaped me to
be the market I am today. But it really was
(15:30):
born out of a passion that we have the ability
to tell stories that are going to influence behavior.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Perfecto, I want to ask you a question about that.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You started keeping the change in twenty fifteen, and obviously
purpose is something that has taken on a life of
its own, and you were way ahead of the curve
with respect to brands thinking about purpose and really going
out there and publicly talking about it and integrating into marketing.
And yet over the past let's say a year or so,
(16:01):
you're seeing a bit of a swing away from that.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Dare I say?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And so, how are you navigating the new waters with
respect to making sure that brands keep on track with
this and that they understand that measurement is important, that
that real outcomes are important. How are you staying ahead
of this next sort of wave of thinking about purpose
with respect to brands and marketing and outcomes.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I've always believed that people want to do good, yes,
but they just don't know how. And it's our job
as marketers to create those solutions, and so we just
hope that we can be ahead of a curve before
it happens. And so over the last two years, I've
been working in AI and data to really aggregate a
(16:47):
lot of the information that is really happening in our communities,
so I can work with brands to show them that
investing in purpose, investing in your stakeholders, not just shareholders,
is how you can create sustainable growth. Evan Schrepearr the
CEO and founder of Patagonia. His vision was not to
create a company that will last the next ten years,
(17:09):
but the next one hundred years. And so I believe
that with data, and that's why I launched equity Quotient
with my incredible co founder, Christina van Houghton, which is
a data platform that helps organizations and brands measure and
manage the impact of their investments. So it's not just
a buzzword, but it's tangible, like you know, and Roy,
(17:33):
I can't wait to learn more about, you know, the
future of work and workforce development and the dignity of work.
I mean, if we recognize that offering people in this country,
you know, a livable wage, how that offers them the
opportunity to live their purpose. That is how I think
we can actually have much more conscious conversation around how
(17:55):
we collectively move forward and what I'm investing in now.
He is data as a solution to do that, and
with AI filling in the gaps where there is not
data on a lot of the overlooked populations that have
not been included in the economy in the past. And
(18:16):
a really quick example is look at the formally incarcerated population.
It costs New York State five hundred and forty six
thousand dollars to keep someone locked up in Rikers Island
per year, and yet there's so much legislation that prevents
a returning citizen from getting access to a paying job.
(18:39):
And so if we can address the employment gap in
this country, I think, you know, including more people into
the economy, we can start really fulfilling the promise of
our nation and what brought us together in the first place,
which is to be a more perfect union.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
On that too, there is a group calls Stand Together
and it's a big believer in the Second Chance movement
all and I know you're engaged with it, but I'd
love to maybe talk to you about that too, because
second Chance and I got America needs it to. We've
(19:18):
made mistakes, yes we do, so we'll talk about that.
But I love what you're saying, we need to give
people second chance exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I love how much you two are on the same page, because,
first of all, as you think about bringing together people
from such different backgrounds and finding common ground, it hasn't
taken much to find the common ground between the two
of you. But I think it's really interesting how both
of your careers have sort of dovetailed between public and
(19:49):
private sectors. And I'm curious to hear from both of
you about the learnings you know that kind of translate
back and forth. And for example, Perfecto, your experience in
the service, I mean, how did that help you when
you jump to a Fortune five hundred company In the
sort of reverse way. Roy, You've had so many incredible
(20:11):
mentors and experiences in the corporate world that now you're
leveraging in the public sector.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So I'd be curious to hear from both of you
about that.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Oh there you go. First, Roy, Yeah, well you're.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Hey. First of all, that's a great question, and second,
I don't have all the answers. Really, I think that
you know, when you back to your point. I wrote
a book called The Ten Essential Hugs of Life. My
daddy was a hugger. He was six or five. I
don't know what happened to me, but anyway, he taught
me to be kind everybody you meet. And he taught
(20:47):
me hug you boys, they need it too. And then
he taught me that don't do mild in life. So
when he passed away, I have my own salsa and
it's called roy ETOs because his name was Roy and
he called me leroy, and he said, remember, don't do
mild in life. So anyway, I think that we all
(21:11):
have journeys and we got to, you know, be observant
of everybody has. You know, everyone's different, and I celebrate
that instead of trying to make everybody well. No, God
made us all different. Sorry. In fact, my mom rest
her soul, said, now, Roy, if you ever get married,
I've been forty seven years. Remember do you know how
(21:33):
to spell together? And I went, I'm a terrible speller,
and she'd say, spell it two.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Love it.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
That's together, America. We need to spell together t W.
We're two different types of people, but we can come
together on higher ground. And so I think the lessons
I learned from all the my sisters, my mom's, all
the things going through school. I met my four partners,
(22:02):
by the way, y'all know, at the University of Texas.
They were marketing. I wasn't. And we stayed together for
fifty years. And when I tell that, for the fact
that the people they go what you were to give
the same people for fifty years, and I said, yep,
back to everybody wants to be a partner. They just
(22:22):
don't want to deal with the ship. Back to the ship.
America needs to build a ship again. While we're rolling
together two people and I'm not trying to be tried
about all this, but and we're not going to get
there until we have a higher purpose articulated. That's what
you're working on. And I think if we come together
(22:43):
on that idea, that we have a higher calling than
what we're listening to right now. And again, we've got
to sink to partisanships and build a ship of state.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
That's a long winded, sorry way of saying I think
purpose has got to rule in that politics.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, and again, Roy, you paved the way, and so
we're in it together. And like and you know two
plus two equals five. And I love just how your
partners and you know, how you've built a community around
purpose and inspired you know, if I may say, the
next generation, So thank you again. And to answer your question, heally,
if I could think of what I parlayed from my
(23:26):
time in service to my corporate career is people are
the greatest asset to any organization period and the military
really ingrained that in me as well. First and foremost,
take care of soldiers and really take care of your team.
(23:47):
And and I am not here today because of like
I could run faster, or you know, or lift more.
It's like when I was in Iraq, I looking someone
in the eye, regardless that we didn't speak the same language,
and offering them respect and dignity that we were in
their country. And you want to talk about branding, I
recognized that I represented the brand of America.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
And so this this was going to be probably their
only experience with if this was the only experience with
an American and I wanted I wanted it to be
a positive one. And I was an infantry officer, and
so I wasn't always there for the best of reasons,
but I learned that people are the greatest assets any organization.
And I look at, you know, the world that I'm
(24:31):
in the world of data, and I'm in the business
of making sure that all people are represented in data,
especially this brave new world that we're in with AI,
that we are creating a society that everyone does have
a seat at the table because we are better together.
As Roy would say.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Yep together boy, perfected.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
As people are getting into, certainly the advertising industry today,
or if perhaps somebody were joining the arm service and
thinking of a second career at some point, what's your
advice to them?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I mean, I think it's everyone does have a unique purpose,
and I think the more that you, as an individual
along your journey can really recognize what is your truth.
Everyone has a unique truth and to really align how
(25:25):
best you what is your superpower and how you can
sort of show up in whatever capacity you may be
entering into and whether it's in the armed services, there's
a plethora of options in jobs. You know, I joined
the Army for many reasons, go army, be a Navy.
But you know, as someone potentially explores the advertising field
(25:46):
or like or the craft of advertising, there's so many
opportunities whether you want to be a writer, a producer,
a creative, a project manager, every superpower is welcome. And
I think more importantly, if you recognize that you're entering
a time honored profession that has for a long time
(26:07):
really like champion to change. We would love anyone that
is curious about how advertised it can help them find
their purpose. I would strongly encourage it. And I think
the hardest thing to do in life, and I'm curious
of your thoughts of this, Roy, I think the hardest
thing to do in life is to love yourself. And
(26:28):
that's part of also finding your own purpose, and so
that's part of the journey. And I think I think
that's what I think keeps me going, is that I'm
forever learning and growing and and Roy, you said this
at the top of the call, and I just want
to really honor it, Like if you seek love, you'll
find love. And you know, if you seek a friend,
(26:50):
you're going to find a friend. And so I think
the advice I would give to anyone looking is to
really honor your story, your path, your history, your culture,
and to be proud of it and to celebrate that
and to have that come across as part of your truth.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
You know one thing on that one in which you
just said the best when I didn't write the Hugs book.
The first there's ten essential You gotta first hug yourself.
You can't love your neighbor if you don't love yourself,
and that's different than being in love with yourself. But
hug yourself. Second, you got to hug where you came from,
(27:28):
no matter where we all come from somewhere, and you
run from it, it'll catch you. And then you gotta
hug your friends because you never know. You gotta hug
your family, your olifts and by the way, you don't
have to like them all. And when Mandela we're in
(27:48):
the cell together and he was telling the present about it,
he said, they took away this, and they took away
in my wife, and they took but they didn't take
away my future because I would have had to give
it to them and I refused. Final thing is you
got to hug your future, whatever that is. But back
to your point, you can't love others if you don't
(28:12):
love yourself. And purpose helps you love yourself good, better
and different. Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
This is such a beautiful conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I love that Roy like truly beautiful.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, I just say thing one thing about perfecto and
you can lead this because I'm a little bit older.
But I think as we're looking at this, looking for
goodness and looking for things that we all can go
to a higher ground on, we've got to go back
to the point you're making, especially with the make It movement,
and our goal is to help the culture of education
(28:48):
change from testing to talent. And I don't mean we don't,
but that the focus of finding a young person's again,
I can't spell, and I told us all this story
and puts your arm around and says you can't spill,
but you can write. And I don't want you to
spend another second of your life trying to be average
at what you're bad at. We got to have this
(29:10):
is one of the big thing I think we can
all rise to, and that is why don't we find
young people and find out what they're good at so
they can become great at it instead of beat them
up on trying to be average what they're bad at.
Does that make sense? And I think that's one of
the things we can talk about as well. How do
we measure that.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I'd love to work with you on that, Roy, And
I think one of the questions Roy, like you know,
you've had an incredible, incredible and because I'm really curious
about this, like you had such incredible career. You've again
worked in both public and private sector. You know from
talk about campaigns. If we were to talk about a
(29:52):
political campaign or like if maybe it there's a better
word other than politics, like a campaign for America. Yeah,
what would your mess.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
I think part of it And I don't have the answer,
we all do, but I think the idea is there
if we ponder this and we say, is there anything
we all agree on? And no one's articulated that, and
it's not freedom, and it's we were called to America
(30:24):
was born different, not perfect, as we all know, we
were born different, and we had made mistakes. But it
was about the idea that when we were at our best,
when we are at our best, every person has the
ability to develop their full potential when we're at our best.
And I think as we're looking at our calling, as
(30:44):
we got to leave new generation better, often we found it,
we're not living up to that. And y'all are a
lot younger than me. But I would say if I
could say it. I would call America to say, let's
leave the place better than we found it and make
that the platform. And then we say, oh, we're doing
it for our kids. No, well, here's the solution. Are
(31:04):
we doing it for our climate?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
No?
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Well here, so we're going to leave the place better
than we found it.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
I love that. I don't know, I said, I love it.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
If we're going to leave the place better than we
found it, how are we doing on education? How are
we doing on the climate? How all right? If we're
going to leave it better than we found it, we
better figure out where we are before we Yeah, yeah,
that's our calling. We've got to leave the place better
than we found it.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Here for it, Amen.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Roy is not a marketing genius and legend for no
reason or by accident.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
So I love that too. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you for sharing that, Roy, thank you for the question, Perfecto,
and thank you both so much for joining us here today.
I know that our listeners are going to learn so much,
not just about the two of you, which is something
that we love about this podcast, but about how they
can and should be thinking about their own purpose and
about how the fact that when you find your purpose
(32:09):
it can help to lead greater change, lead to greater change,
or for greater change in the community and the world
more broadly around us. So thank you and thanks for
being so inspiring. Thank you for all your work and
come back.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Thank you, Haley, thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
We're going to get together, promise absolutely Well.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That does it for this episode of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on Ihearten.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Romer, and thank you
for listening. We'll be back with another episode before you
know it. And for more information on the American Advertising Federation,
go to AAF dot org.
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