Ben Bowlin | Conspiracies, Goverment Cover-Ups and STDWYTK

On this week's episode, Payne chats with Ben Bowlin, co-host of the "Stuff They Don't Want You to Know" podcast. Ben takes us behind the curtain, to reveal some of the most intriguing conspiracies, myths, and unexplained phenomena out there. Discover his favorite episodes, the challenges of researching controversial topics, and his insights on why these mysteries captivate our imaginations. This episode promises to be a fascinating journey into the world of the unknown, guided by one of its most knowledgeable explorers.

 

Subscribe to Tenderfoot+ for ad-free listening - https://tenderfoot.tv/plus/

 

Follow Talking to Death on Social:

IG: @talkingtodeath

TikTok: @talkingtodeathpodcast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening
and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts. Talking to Death is a
production of tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say the thing. Go
ahead and we're back. Oh you said it? Did I
sound like pain when I said it?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Exactly like them? What is new with Dylan Harrington?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
You know, just live in life, listen to some podcasts
and listening to podcasts. I've been listening to this new podcast.
Maybe you've heard of it. It's called Stuff they Don't
want you to Know.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Actually, we have a little bit of a history, and
this week's guest is like a good friend of the show.
I would say, since I've been working in podcasts, my
closest industry friends have always been like the people that
work at iHeart. What was the show again, Dylan Stuff
they don't want you to know? Yeah, and you've been
checking it out right?

Speaker 4 (01:01):
I have?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Actually, Yeah, we took a trip down to Florida with
Mike here, who's got a pretty cool little summer home.
But yeah, on the drive, I just listened to several
hours of the show that was my first time hearing
it and absolutely fell in love with it. I'm a
big conspiracy guy. I know Mike is too, so it
was cool to just like hear a podcast that has
thousands of episodes all about that, all about every conspiracy,

(01:24):
super well researched, just as deep as you can get
into the weeds.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, all three of the co hosts have kind of
helped me along the way in one way or another.
You know, in my career as a podcaster. We've been
close with them for a long time. Their show covers,
like you said, topics from UFOs, psychic powers, government cover ups,
all the conspiracy goodness that you want. And they're not crazy.
They're not like crazy QAnon guys.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
The three hosts of the show Stuff they Don't Need
to Know are Ben Bolin, Matt Frederick, and Noel Brown.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
On their show, they talk about all the stuff we'd like,
right Dylan, Like aliens, UFO, abductions, They talk about all
the good stuff. Reptilians. Maybe do they talk about that
at all? Do you think that's something they.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Have to have talked about that. They have thousands of episodes.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, they've definitely covered it. What are your thoughts on this, Dylan?
Are the reptilians real?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
We were talking about this yesterday. I'm pretty sure the
pope is a reptilian ilion just putting that out there.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Now. You say we were talking about this as if
I was somehow agreeing with you on this.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I was talking about it and you were listening.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, maybe that's a little close.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
If you are as into aliens and UFO conspiracies as
Mike and I are, make sure you check out our
other show, High Strange, just shameless plug. We worked really
hard on it. We talked to some really fascinating military
personnel and scientists and potential abductees and it's a really
cool show. So check that out.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, by far one of my favorite shows we've done
as Tenderfoot, and they actually helped us a little bit
along the way. I was texting Ben and Matt and
Noel and getting some further info on UFOs while we're
in production. Today's guest is author and co host of
the podcast Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, Ben Bolan.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Check one two. The following countries begin with the letter
J to make a come.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
On, that's it. That's the only one. Is it the
only one? It's the only one. Wow, it's terrible.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
You know.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
I mean you looked it up one time. I guess. Uh.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I have one of my useless skills, man, I can
name random factoids. Yeah, every country in the world. It
has never come in handy. So now I just use
it for sound checks.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
And everyone's like, whoa, you're right, that is yeah. I
mean sometimes it makes you look smart. But my my
producers are already so tired of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
They're like, they're just like an immune to it. Yeah.
I was recording ridiculous history and we're doing sound checks
and now they know the number of countries and the
letters and stuff, so you know, more than just yeah yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
not something to brag about it.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
I hope this is okay.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yeah, Kyrghyzstan, kazakhstand, Kenya, Kurabati. Uh. I think those are
those are the ones Zambia, Zimbabwe, X. I don't think
there's one with an X.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
You cutter? Why don't we say is it cutter? Uh?

Speaker 4 (04:40):
It depends, So like I've started going with cutter just
because like, if it's a person from Cutter, we say katari, Right,
but I met someone from Cutter and they were a
they said cutter, So I'm just following they say that.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, but then why don't we say it like they
told us like the American and told us the wrong
way to say it from the beginning. Then, right, yeah,
they never said cutter first they said katar. Yeah that's
what I thought it was.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
But then also we run the risk of, like, you know,
if you talk to somebody with an English accent and
they're like, you know, shrop food shit, then we're not
when we're talking each other, we're not going to say, hey,
have you ever heard of stroupfood shit? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
How do you feel about like just throwing in the
the accent of whatever word is? Yeah? Is that like
to me that sounds like dumb? Yeah, you can also
say that it's being respectful. But also it's like it's like,
do you go to Taco Bell and say, excuse me,

(05:43):
may I have a case Sadi?

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Right?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
It seems like, okay, you're be an extra.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah or pretentious or something I'll get I'll get knocked
for that. In our show, when we're talking about a
country and you say like Afghanistan instead of Afghanistan. But
those people are going to be mad about something. Yeah,
that person's mad at everything then.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Or maybe that's the one thing. Maybe that's the maybe
that's the only thing that really just that's their gripe.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Some people have that that one gripe.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I love it. I love it when people have the
one thing, you know. Yeah, but it's usually not just
one thing, like a pet peeve. Oh yeah, you got
what are your pet peeves? So my pet peeve infamously
is the word pet peeve.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
You're so stupid. What is that? What's the pet pet peeve?
I get so confused by that phrase too, because it's
a weird way to try to like cutesify something. Yeah,
they don't like, you know, and people sometimes use it inappropriately,
like my pet peeve is arson. I don't think you
should do it. That's not really a pet peeve. That's
like a normal thing you should not like, no.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
One should do that. Peeves a little bitch, you know, right, Yeah,
peeve sucks. Yeah, he's not my pet.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I also just.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Don't like the mouthfeel of the word peeve peeve. Yeah,
it sounds like perv.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
It sounds like per sounds like you're about to pee,
but then you shymala on them at the end of
the word, you know, peeve peev.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
It's like, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
All of my elementary school teachers would open the year
with like, my pet peeves are like pet peeve? Like
what is them?

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Like? Just say like annoyances or my mom was a
teacher as well for a long time, and they do
use the phrase pet peeve. And I think it's one.
I think it's one of those phenomenon where one teacher
did it and it worked, and then by the time
folks our age were in school, it had just become

(07:40):
the rule. It was established, Yes, because the pet peeves
were never surprising, No, they were always like, my pet
peeve is kids who don't raise their hands exactly, you know, yeah,
talking out out of turn or right, yeah, not doing
your homework And it's like, okay, I mean is.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
That a pet peeve or is that just school right exactly? Also,
we love teachers, we do. My sister is a teacher.
Oh nice, nice, Uh what grade or speciality? She's moved
around A couple of times. I want to say, right now,
this is bad. I want to say, I'm going to
get it wrong, but I think she is teaching in

(08:15):
like fourth grade right now. I could be way wrong. Yeah,
not middle school, elementary school. I think somewhere in the middle. Okay,
so three four five, I think, okay, one of those.
That's good. She's done a couple different grades before though. Yeah,
they often move around. But I'll tell you, you and I.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Have done a lot of live shows. We've both traveled
a bunch for different things. The toughest crowds that I
ever faced have been children at a school career day. Really, yeah,
I haven't done one of those.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's fun.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
I think, you know, if if it ever works out,
I think it's a really rewarding thing to do for
the kids.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
For sure. Spoiler.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
Most of them will ask really great questions, but they
get into some prizingly hard hitting journalism.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Well really yeah, asking you the hard hitting questions. Yeah,
you look at the teachers like should I answer this?
One kid?

Speaker 4 (09:07):
One kid said it was you have to accept that
the most popular person is always going to be the
guy with the fire truck.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Every time.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Oh yeah, the guy with the trucklits So you I'll
bring like stickers from a show and I remember, gosh,
this was several years ago now. I was doing a
career day at my mom's old school and one of
the kids straight up asked me, do you like your
job or do you feel that you've wasted your life?
And it was I kid you not, it was like

(09:37):
the third question.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you sat there just like having this excentral moment,
and you like sent me, honestly, I hate myself. I
think I said something probably a little bit too too real,
too real to the kid, and I want to be
honest with the kids. But yeah, I remember saying something like, well,

(09:59):
I'm really enjoyed my job. Like a lot of people,
I fell into it, and you know, one of the
best things I could say is that life isn't over yet, right,
And I looked around into these blank faced kids, you know,
like I don't want that guy's career. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
They they're really interesting with it. Now that the things
that people want to do or the way children envision
their future has shifted dramatically. You know, used to be
the land where people wanted to be astronauts or doctors, lawyers,
but now I can't remember the statistic exactly. Now it

(10:40):
shifted and I've seen this at career days. When you
ask kids what they want to be when they grow up,
A majority of them, or a more than fifty percent,
have said influencer, which is weird to me that they
know that term.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
So, like, what do you think what age are you
talking about here?

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Say? These would be elementary school kids? Wow? Okay, kind
of in the range you describe to, like fourth to
fifth grade. I try to avoid career days at middle schools.
They have a lot going on. Yeah, other school sucked.
I don't think anybody is a fan of middles No.
Middle school is like the DMV of education. You know
what I mean, nobody, you have to do it.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
You have to go. You gotta go. High school is
the cool part. Make it there.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
But yeah, influencer.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
So what do you think these elementary school kids when
they say I want to be an influencer when I
grow up. I mean, I know what I think that means.
But like, what do you think they think that means?
Popular on the internet and get paid to be that?
I guess so that's my understanding. But look, you guys
know me.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
I'm not cool, So I don't understand what an influencer does.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
I hope.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
I wish them the best, you know, but there are
very few personalities that regard that I would personally be
familiar with. We know that you can anybody can have
a platform now, which I think overall is a good thing.
It's dangerous, but it's good. So I imagine in their minds
they're asking their parents to let them start TikTok or

(12:10):
YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Things like that.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's weird.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's weird. I feel like it used to be.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
I mean it did.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was harder to create a platform for yourself. Yeah,
in the earlier days of the Internet. That's not necessarily
a good or bad thing, but I think that there
was just it more challenges to that that kind of
tested you to create like a space for yourself. Now
it is just press a button and there's your platform.

(12:44):
I think that kind of changes the way that people
may look at the It's almost too easy to.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Have a platform, So is it even worth anything? Like right,
like it may have been at one point, And if
you know, the human condition is always the same. People
feel like they are not heard, they feel like they
are not seeing sure, and they want to be heard
and seen. Uh, And it becomes increasingly difficult because now
everybody can do that. But I'll tell you one thing,

(13:10):
we are all immensely fortunate, you and I especially that
we didn't have YouTube the way it is now growing up.
I'm not envious of it. I'm not envious either.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm glad TikTok was not out when I was in
high school. Oh gosh, right, yeah, I'm thinking, well, my
space was just fine. My space was in high school.
We're saying I forgot oh yeah, I forgot those.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Boy man, I'm just remembering, like how much stuff, how
many breadcrumbs people are leaving now out there in the world,
and right skeletons, Yeah, I mean yeah, Like we were
talking about Twitter or X. I'm gonna call it Twitter.
I don't know, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
It's like, even when you say X, you also say twitter, right,
you know which X you're talking about? Yeah, I guess yeah,
not the movie Triple X, not an X rated thing,
not the wrestler right, Yeah, it's anyway. We were talking
about that and the importance of what you call online hygiene,

(14:14):
which is just sort of being careful what you put
out there because the void does stare back, and then
being mindful of things because there's also it's a land
of It's landa booby traps really there, they're feedback loops
that get created, pitchforks can be thrown over anything, you

(14:34):
know what I mean? And I have I mean knock
on wood here. Yeah, I've been very.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
I've been increasingly careful with that. But well, you said MySpace,
I'm remembering just all the dumbass photos I put on there.
I had a live journal with posts that were like, dear.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Universe, that's amazing. Are all the MySpace is gone now?
I mean, be honest, somewhere right now, they're not. I
don't think that they're live anymore. I don't know, you know.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
What I The last I heard is Tom from MySpace. Yeah,
he got out of the game like years ago. We
haven't heard about him. He just kind of became a meme.
Now all he does is travel around the world and
do cool stuff and then so that won charity.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, in and out social media like before it got gidder,
and he does.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
I don't think he cares about having a platform.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
No, yeah, his moment you got rich. He's cool.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
I bet he's got a really chill vibe. I'm so glad.
You know how you hear about public figures, and especially
in recent years, you guys have to take the gamble
and you you know, you hope that they're not a
bad person in real life. Don't meet your heroes kind
of thing. Yeah, Like you see I see the headlines
where it's like celebrity blah blah blah blah blah blah

(15:51):
blah in court or alleged arrest, et cetera. And I
always think, don't let it be Tom Hanks. Man, you know,
let's keep that one.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Damn Yeah. Right, Like, is there anyone who is still wholesome?
Were they ever?

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Right?

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And that's I think part of that is really a
result of being able to know people more. Right.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's like the idea of Twitter.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
The reason Twitter was so successful was because it was
a dangerous gamble. It was a game you were playing.
You can get access to these people outside of you know,
their usual small army of handlers, but in return, everybody
else can.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Have that access to you.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
It's yes, we had a years back, years back in
the House of worksdays we had media training, which was
a very fun situation but sounds fun. Yeah, oh yeah,
oh Man to the edge of the seats, right, but
they talked about that.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
That was man. Oh geez.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Back in those days, it felt like we had it
felt like I did. I went to an office and
I had a job, But it really felt more like
I was in a TV show about a guy who
had a job at a wacky office.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Our boss would burst in and can't cancel what we
were doing. Uh. One time, for Pal Connell's birthday, our
boss at the time had us smuggle in a very large,
like three hundred pound plus Elvis impersonator Ocean's eleven style
to like bust into this meeting and serenade Connell. That's unreal.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I was as a badass. Yeah, those are the good
old days. It sounds like, Yeah, that was cool.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
I think we could We could probably still get Well,
you're looking for an Elvis guy, we could probably find
you one. Yeah, three hundred plus.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh that's the only except maybe he like lost a
lot of weight, though maybe it's not the same sort
of anymore.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
So.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Back to career day and kids asking you those life,
hard hitting life questions, how did you get into podcasting
or where you are now? If you fell into it?

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, I went to their own little story behind that.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I feel like, you know, not that many people I
know in the industry just decided to become a podcaster
per se. They kind of had a weird root of
how they got there, an organic way.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
What's yours?

Speaker 1 (18:31):
For some time.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
I was started as an intern at How Stuff Works,
and this was pre podcast for them. There were a
few people at the time, this would be around two
thousand and seven. There were a few people at the
time who had started doing what we call early adopter
podcasts love more guys at home, maybe more tech focused,
because that's how they heard about this idea. Yes, How

(18:55):
Stuff Works had not known about this. We wrote articles
that explained things like how carbonation works, how does a
lamp work, et cetera. That was totally fine. I was
a part of their video department, which meant that the
way I started out was I would get they would
send me tons and tons of very short videos, and

(19:16):
I would write a short description about it, you know,
so it was short attention span theater in the most
extreme sense, right right. And then then one day I'll
always remember our boss at the time, Connell comes in
and he's got this Connall has like this movie star
energy he does, you know, And so he comes in, Guys,

(19:41):
we're doing something brand new. It's exciting. It's called a podcast.
Here's what we're gonna do. And he's like, we're gonna
put stuff in the title, and we're gonna take different
categories from the website, and so you know, our tech
podcast will be tech stuff, right, and we'll have other things.
And he was answering questions. He goes, first, Yeah, these

(20:03):
are going to be like five minutes or less, because
who would want to listen to a podcast for an hour?
And that's this Dude's brilliant And it did end up
working out. But it's also I think indicative of how
new it was as a medium. We didn't know what
would or wouldn't work right, so there.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Was no blueprint for that or data to support any
any sort of idea of that.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yeah, the data, I think is a really good point.
So I'm all about this. I want it, I want in,
And as a lowly intern, I'm like, I got to
get my chance, you know what I mean, I've got
to do I've got to do something right intention to
to beg or cajole my way into this. And so
I was very fortunate. The first podcast that I was

(20:51):
a co host on was called car Stuff about everything
that floats, fly, swims or drives. And the guy who
is our real expert is a guy named Scott Benjamin.
And the best way to compare it, man is I
was like the Jesse Pinkman to Scott Benjamin's Walter.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
What that's cool? It was cool, it was, And that show.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Ran for many, many years, and then along the way,
my pot Matt Frederick and I started making a show
called Stuff they Don't Want You to Know, which was
He'll kill Me if I Don't say it. It was a
name given to us by oer pal Jonathan Strickland, and
that came because Matt and I had a mutual interest
in a lot of the questions that remain unanswered. We

(21:39):
had no idea what the word conspiracy would mean or
what it would connotate to in the next few years,
and so we had a lot of autonomy, you know.
And they said, make make a cool video thing, make
something you guys want to make, and we should have
chosen a shorter name, but we thought we're going to
be able to do this two weeks tops, and they're
going to tell us stop or they're going to fire us.

(22:02):
Let's figure out who killed JFK right before it happens
and before accounting finds out. They're paying us, and we
were able to continue that during this time. How Stuff
Works gets purchased by Discovery, and this is the era
of reality TV where there's like a honey booboo and

(22:24):
things like that. So an addition doing the podcast, now
I'm also watching hundreds of honey booboo things and like,
you know, shows about families that have a weird number
of children and typing a little sentence like uh oh,
someone's got a sugar rush, and that's you know that. Again,

(22:47):
that was a job, that's what I was paid to do.
But I always knew that the podcasting aspect, or the
way to explore stories here is just immensely rewarding. I
was in Guadala. I was living in Guatemala before I
came back and then got that internship. My life was
very different. I was finishing out some college credits. It

(23:09):
was actually more affordable at the time to live in
Guatemala for a while with money saved up and some
writing gigs. It was cheaper to do that than it
was to live in Atlanta with like two jobs.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's crazy. Yeahs, so you chose to be yeah, I'm
all it is.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, and made it out and now I fall into this.
But you know, I think one thing you'll see whenever
you ask people about these stories is there are common
interests that they have in editing or writing and a
lot of filmmakers.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
You said videos what you started with. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
then that's what I started with too, is video before
I did anything solely audio. Do you think that that
has shaped the way that you create podcasts in anyway?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
I would hope so, honestly, because I think there's you know,
when you were when you're doing any kind of video work,
you think you learn to think in terms of structure,
in terms of contrast, you know, and there's there is
a creative commonality there. Like I remember you and I

(24:16):
had been talking well back in and you say you
did you had done music videos, right, Yeah, So a
lot of our colleagues did music videos as well, and
may still if we want to get them on the
phone now I'll just be scheduling because now they're all
they all work at podcasting, right.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, I did. I did music videos for a while.
I did a lot of different rappers videos here in Atlanta.
So I met Donald, my business partner.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
So I always thought visually first, and you know, it
was kind of a little bit of a jump to
kind of lose the visual component altogether, right, Yeah, because
there's some things you can't do when there can't be
a subtitle on the screen that tells you where you're at,
and start using other creative ways to tell the story.

(25:09):
And I think, honestly, for me, that challenge maybe get
a little bit better at storytelling because I had less
I could use. It made me focus on other elements
that maybe I wouldn't have put as much time or
energy into or not as soon if I was if
I continued just you know, freelance filmmaking.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Maybe absolutely I agree with that because it's sort of like, well,
what replaces color tone? Now? How do I express these
things in audio? And I think you make a beautiful
point like limiting the resources or the ways in which
we can express ourselves forces us to really put some

(25:50):
really make the stuff we have left go right and
go well. Because with stuff they don't want you to
know that came on the heels of a bunch of
different videos I was. I also became the head video writer.
Uh so we would we would have shows like brain
Stuff and all these all these explainer YouTube things. And
then we also got our we got to do our

(26:12):
more tour kind of explorations, right like what's wacky sketch
comedy or what's a what's a cool cinematic thing we
can do to explain this? And those were great and
our our our management was always really really supportive, like
Jason Hope, who was who was amazing at getting us

(26:34):
cool places to film, you know. I remember we have
conversations with him that were pretty casual where he would say, hey,
what do you think about the filming something at Bowling Alley?
And then I thought, that's amazing. Yeah, let's let's do
it and never explain why we're at the Bowling Alley, right,
you know. And then Bolsome rounds exactly in the middle

(26:56):
of and that's Osmosis. We did stuff like that and
we're very fortunate. And when we moved to audio, you know,
it's it's a different production. There are a lot of
things you still have to line up, just like with
any other production. But I kind of missed it because

(27:16):
it's it's fun to do visual stuff, and I'm glad
to see that's coming back.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, it is, so how many years has it been
now since you started stuff they don't want you to know, buddy. Okay,
let's see. Let's feel old for a second.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, let's feel right. Oh man, let's see. I think
and Matt would have to check me out here. I
think twenty I want to say twenty thirteen, twenty twelve.
I can't remember if that's so over ten years? Yeah, yeah, wow,
we've been doing this for for an odd number of years.

(27:51):
When I look back, it's to the point where I
can and I think, you see this when you're in
this thing for a few years. I can look back
and see photographs myself visibly younger, you know, and I
looked different exactly, And I'm thinking, I remember still thinking

(28:12):
stuff they want, you know, applies critical thought to the
things that we would call conspiracy theories, to allegations of
the paranormal government cover ups, stuff of that nature. And
you know, we didn't know that the term would become
so weaponized in recent years for one reason or another.
But we always we always followed, like our north stars,

(28:34):
the idea that the world is both understandable and worth understanding,
And it's okay to call BS on something, but you
also have to be ready to accept if there is
a grain of truth, you know what I mean, Like
the Tuskegee experiments were real.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
There were clear.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
Documented cases of the government shenanigans that likely in some
form continue today.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
And it's just very.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Weird to be in that kind of deep water and
then say all right, well let's.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Do let's do our little podcast. So okay, ten years Yeah,
did you solve the JFK mystery? Yet we've got some
folks who'd like for it. I mean, what's your thoughts there?

Speaker 4 (29:20):
I have conflicting thoughts. The most recent, really well done
exploration of who killed JFK is a podcast called Who
Killed JFK?

Speaker 1 (29:31):
With a Rob Reiner.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
That's right, the guy who created Spinal Tap Amazing goes
hard into this with his co host solo Dad O'Brien,
and they do a lot of great research that the
official narrative has never made a ton of sense to me,
which is what the official narrative is that Lee Harvey Oswald,

(29:54):
acting alone, shot Kennedy at Daly Plaza, and that he
did this without any sort of support network that he
was way better at shooting than he had ever been
on record because he was on record being a pretty
bad marksman.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Hell just yeah, he just got it.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Was his lucky moment, right at a very unlucky moment
for the president of the US. However, when you look
at different aspects of the ballistics, you look at the
dirty stuff that happened with the original autopsy records, and
then you see as recently as this year, a former

(30:36):
Secret Service agent came out and said, Hey, I found
another bullet on the scene. Well, what did you do
with it? I put it on a gurney? Did you
think about telling anyone? I had a lot going on? Okay?

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Any where is it now? It's somewhere right?

Speaker 4 (30:56):
And why did he take so long to say anything
about this? So without conclusively being able to say the
CIA and the FBI hired the mafia to assassinate Castro,
or they had someone like to say Lee Harvey Oswell
was a patsy, and that there was another shooter, this

(31:17):
one in particular. But a lot of these theories in
general is that you can't conclusively disprove some of that stuff, right.
You can say there are parts of the official narrative
that should be re examined, and that's something they do
and who killed JFK. And if you listen, I don't

(31:37):
want to spoil it, but if you listen, at the end,
they're pretty confident that they found other people who were involved.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Really yeah, So the narrative is that Lee Harvey Oswald
by himself killed JFK from that, you know, that building
up the top, through the window, shooting, shooting down the car.
What is the alternative theory or what would be the
motivation behind whoever orchestrated this making it look like this

(32:10):
guy did it when somebody else was involved in why
they want him dead in the first place if that
was the case.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a really good question. The
possible motivation there would be look like our own government
or some other thing. The scary part is one of
the most popular ideas is a faction of our own government.
Because it is well known that Kennedy, who was a

(32:39):
very popular president with a lot of people at the time,
Kennedy was still part of the larger Kennedy dynasty, which
is very nepotistic, right. He had just hired his brother
as the attorney general despite the guy not having any training,
and he's like, hey, bro, get in on this, bro something, Yeah,
it'll be sick man. And and the FBI and the

(33:02):
CIA hated Kennedy because he was against several things that
they liked, which was stuff like the mass surveillance of
Americans targeting civil rights leaders things like that. Because a
few years later, Martin Luther King would be assassinated and

(33:24):
an RFK would be assassinated as well Robert Kennedy. So
they really really really detested JFK because from their perspective,
he kept getting in the way of them taking down
Castro and every time they tried an operation in Cuba
that they could get away with, they just inevitably fucked.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
It up really bad.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
And their ideas also sounded kind of dumb. They were
like writer room ideas, like well, what if we like,
you know, poisonous cigars, the guy who loves cigars.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
It's like, okay, what movie right?

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Exactly one. There was one plan to pipe in LSD
or an hallucinogen when it was recording in a studio
to make him seem less credible.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, what could go wrong? I
like how simple it is? Yeah, right? Also is that
even can you even pipe that through the vents through
the air the way I see it?

Speaker 4 (34:23):
Dude, they were making these ideas. They have like a
chalkboard or a whiteboard, and they're like, all right now
I'm writing it down. We'll figure it out, right, Yeah,
someone go find out how to do that.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, I'm pret surely this green like swamp gas like yeah, fortune. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
So because of that, and because of the things like
the Cuban missile crisis's really tense time because if the
Soviet Union has nuclear weapons in Cuba just ninety miles
away from the US, there is no technology that can
stop those missiles from just obliterating the countries, right, So
Kennedy wanted to de escalate this kind of and the

(35:02):
CIA and the FBI factions of them disagreed. So for
people who think there's another part of the story, they're
usually going to tell you that through proxies are hidden
hand parts of a deeper government took out Kennedy.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
There's definitely some conspiracy theories out there that are probably true.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
I think that aliens are real and UFOs are real.
I don't know how much of that in our own
pop culture is true in terms of the stories we've
heard over decades. You know, I don't know where the
line is drawn there. It would be weird to me.
I think if for the past, you know, almost one
hundred years, seventy five years, just in American pop culture,

(35:47):
we have in a lot of ways convinced ourselves that
there's been all this UFO stuff happening here and been
covered up and for every day that goes by us
to learn how much more science supports the idea of
there being extraterrestrial life sure.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
In the universe? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Do we just get to a point where the human
species is at this sort of like pinnacle where our
own imaginations have convinced ourselves that these things are happening
and have been happening because we know that it's possible.
I see, that's a good question.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Is that stranger than some of the stories being true?
I feel like that to me is a little weirder.
That would be its own crazy story.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
I think it'd be an It's like an Ockham's razor thing, right,
which is the less unreasonable or it should be a
dead story by now. Yeah, so many things.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
That we thought were true that we've been able to
prove we're not. But not all of them, Not all
of them, that's true. This seems like one that should
be debunked.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Yeah, I mean it's it's the Fermi paradox, right, because
what we know about the size of the universe, it's
just so impossibly big. It is statistically certain that there
is other advanced life somewhere out there in the ink. Yes,
it's also true that there are things that people cannot explain,

(37:18):
and they like the difference between you know, a civilian
on the ground seeing something in the sky versus a
pilot who's trained to recognize aircraft and musing when the
when the guys up in the birds see something, they
get freaked out. Then it's time to really wonder, right,
Because I also to your point, like I guess it

(37:41):
became more normalized for people to speak about it and
then acquired this sort of political or cultural's better word, momentum.
But also if you really look at the stories, they're
the same as the old stories of fairy tales, right,
of kids getting abducted and stuff. It's a way for

(38:02):
it's a framework for people to kind of experience reality
or attempt to explain it. I think it would be cool.
I think it was absolutely cool if extraterrestrials landed. I
love the idea of extraterrestrials, one being real and on Earth,

(38:22):
and I like them landing. And maybe they're not especially impressive,
like the one cool thing they figured out with spaceships,
and then like they see velcro and they're like, holy, well,
like this is brilliant. Just show us more of your
cool inventions. And I want them to only be impressed
with the dumb stuff like.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Crocs or like the fast food or the fast damn
it Donald Slats. Exactly. We're over here just drinking these
weird protein shakes that have no flavor.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
But we lived a thousand years. The president would like
to speak with you, zarlak. Well, tell them to meet
me at Applebee's.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Like a friendly neighborhood restaurant. Everywhere in the country. It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
So if there is a cover up, man, then that
means so the most likely the easiest way we know
to explain some of the stuff from the past, at
least is it is one hundred percent true that people
out in the interior of the US would see secret
military craft flying stuff that didn't exist. They would call

(39:30):
their local authorities reported, they'd run it up the chain.
And then someone probably at the FBI or maybe the
US Air Force looked at this and said, well, we
can't tell them about the spy bomber because we're not
supposed to be building it. So just tell them aliens
like aliens. Okay, yeah, and they did do this, this

(39:52):
is true.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, but it doesn't explain everything. No, it doesn't like that,
but that like, I think they can co exist too, right,
I think they all co exist. I like the older
UFO stories the best because a lot of reasons, one
of them being the footage or the pictures of them.
These days with AI and everything else. Yeah, it's you know,

(40:16):
discerning what is real is only becoming harder by the minute.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
If you go look back at some you know, film
photograph from the sixties or seventies, right that someone like
Kodak can verify is real and was you know, not doctored,
not doctored and it was came out of this lab. Right,
that makes you say, okay, well what is that anomaly then?

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (40:42):
And if you look at some of these older pictures
of you know, some of the best, like UFO photos
from back in the day, Like where are those things now?
If they were our own government, you'd think, like seventy
years later, we'd be using those things.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
One hundred percent. Yeah, And I'm honestly worried there would
be some kind of like UFO UAP fatigue, right, Like
you were saying, is this a dead story? I don't
want it to happen because there's still a kid somewhere
inside of.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Me, of course wants to be real, don't get me wrong. Yeah,
I know what you mean.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
I want to believe. Yeah, exactly, I want to believe,
and I hope something like that will happen. But you're
raising a really good point about the technological breakthroughs, right,
Like is Bigfoot just blurry?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know what I mean? That one always kills me, right,
what do you like? I mean, it's hilarious, to be honest,
What if Bigfoot is blurry? I don't like it's not
the photograph He's a blurry.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
What do you mean? It's funny.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
I can't disprove it, but you know, I don't know
it's it's Bigfoot.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
I'm less inclined to believe in Bigfoot's much more difficult.
There are cryptids who call them that likely or based
on real things. There are other animals they'll get discovered,
but the majority of those that are going to be
discovered that would be unknown or revolutionary to science.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
They're going to be deep in the ocean. Yes, They're
going to be in like the toughest not like California woods.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
No. And also I think of the poop. Okay, I
know it's gross, but it's like the most important point.
A large animal, an animal of that size, Bigfoot takes
big shits exactly right. You would find something at some point,
you know. And I think as long as people aren't

(42:39):
hurting anyone, then it's totally fine. Yeah, and it's also
really fun to go on, like it's like a stipe
hunt basically, you know, hunting Bigfoot. Although now that I
say it, you know, I'm remembering. I think, just like
two weeks ago or something, there was a guy who
killed his room mate. I saw this because he thought

(43:02):
he was going to feed him to Bigfoot.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
That's either drugs illusion, yeah, meth or it's the early
onset of yeah. Good, but Bigfoot never showed up in
the case that sucks. I mean, yeah, Bigfoot to me
is it's hard for me to wrap my mind around
there being some species of a large, large mammal like that.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
That is just the ultimate.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Hide and seek player to what exactly, like where are
the dead bigfoots?

Speaker 4 (43:35):
And also if there is a cover up of foot
oh sorry, if there is a cover.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Up going overfoot? Yeah yeah, why oh why why do
they care? Right, It's like it's it's the thing. Can't
even talk really right, it's what if I mean think
we had to think we put it in the zoo,
Like if we caught one, we would charge people to
see it.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
Yeah, we would have so many documentaries, you know, Werner Herzog.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Would be busy for like Pierre in our best interest
to out that if that were true.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
But that that idea, that cabal is sort of the
shadowy mommy of a lot of conspiracy theories. There's always
a they are them and there's something they don't want
you man.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, yeah, like so that's my thing with conspiracy theories.
I mean, I I am fully aware that there are
things in this world that we don't understand.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
That's that is proven.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
There's things that we don't understand today that we always
you know, in our lifetime in some ways do understand
or science unlocks this new door and we learned, Oh
that's why.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
This happens, or this is what that means. Future historians
will look back and like these these Jabbroni's, they couldn't
even travel faster than light, right, you know, we're goofing
off over here with these combustible engines exactly exactly these
these knuckle heads. But yeah, I think you're making a
really powerful point. You know. The idea here is I

(45:07):
keep going back to this too. You know, conspiracy theories
in a way make the world more rational. Yeah, people
who believe in them, because it's it's just fucking terrifying
to consider the alternative, which is accidents happen and sometimes
there's no one at the wheel.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, or sometimes shit's just fucked up. Sometimes things are
just like sometimes things are just shitty like. That's that's
my thing. I think that it's in human nature to
when something horrible happens, let's just even say, JFK, that's horrible, right.
I mean everyone sees the president get shot and he's murdered,
you know, on camera, in front of everybody in Texas.

(45:49):
I think there's a part of human nature that wants
there to be some bigger, grander explanation for this. Oh yeah,
it can't just be this guy who shot him. I mean,
but what if it was. It's just not big enough.
It's like, that's shitty to think that this guy could
just do that, right, and and there's nothing else bigger here,

(46:11):
and it was just a murder plot. I pulled it off.
That's that sucks.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
You're right, And sometimes when you find those explanations, the
ones that are real but happen to not be cinematic
and you feel anti climactic. Sometimes you find those explanations
and people may refuse to accept them. There have been
times where we're looking into something and I found it
interesting and we wanted to. We're very careful never to

(46:41):
say something's definitely true or definitely false unless.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
We prove it.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
You're just exploring, right, But sometimes do run into the thing,
and it's your it's your responsibility to say, well, also,
this is not true.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah I found some bullshit over here. Yeah, we hit
a dead end and you're looking it's not true, you're
looking for bullshit here. It is.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
But I'm trying to think of different different reactions people
have gotten because or given to us. Because when it
starts to become your a core piece of your identity, right,
there are people who are like I am a QAnon guy,
or like hey like you just so, just like the

(47:24):
people who thought the moon landing was faked, right, And
at the time, there wasn't the same sort of Again,
we didn't have the same level of technology that you
could use as a civilian to easily prove the fake.
I do, but I think they faked it on the Moon.
Wait it because of budget cuts.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
And stuff like that. They faked it on the Moon. Yeah,
so what they went to the Moon and they were there,
so they didn't fake it. They went to different moon. Uh,
so they wanted to film it right with Stanley Kubrick.
Stanley Kubrick as kind of an autour. He's very civic dude,
and so over the course of the production they figured
out the only way to make it look good, good

(48:06):
enough for Stanley, was if they went to the Moon
and faked the moon landing there. It's the dumbest joke
I will make in this conversation. Is it a joke
or you're being serious? Right?

Speaker 4 (48:16):
You know?

Speaker 1 (48:16):
I'm joking?

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
I was like Okay, so they what to the moon twice?
That's even that's crazy. Yeah, what a waste of money.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I mean the moon question, you can clearly with it
without too expensive a telescope.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
You can see it.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
It's like cru it's real, right, we've been there since, right,
and it's inconvenient to get.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
There, right, it's kind of expensive.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
I mean, it's beautiful to explore space, but also it's
just such a hold my beer idea, like exploring space,
we'll just going to the moon. The Moon, that's just
a leisure like what are we doing. We're never going
to populate that thing. I don't know, man, I mean,
I think the next several decades it can be very
interesting for SpaceX. We're always as a society, we're very

(49:04):
optimistic about it because it is you could argue biologically,
that's the big step that we want to take.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Like the last frontier is beyond this planet.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Right, right, we got to start Earth two point zero.
But I don't know. I also don't know if I
don't know if it's humans that will be doing space
exploration or colonization, or if it's something that we create,
because the humans are very fragile, not built for space.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, like space is terrifying really, like if you think
about it, space is where you die. Yes, like just
being in space and not in an astronaut suit, you're
dead and NASA will not sell you a spare suit. No,
how much are those things too much?

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Yeah? I mean I guess the price goes down with
every mission because they are able to reduce costs, or they.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
They still use like the old ones like Daniel Armstrong's
I hope, I hope, like like Delta's using planes from
like this, yeah, eighties. I hope.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
It's like, well, Janine, you drew the short straw, so
you have to take the shitty suit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Right, it's like that one's it's a little worn, but
it still does its job. It's all it's old, faithful. Yeah,
don't mess with the tape. Actually, just maybe have this
thought about half the planes that we fly in commercially
are like super old, not all of them, but some
of them, and they've just been you know, redone and

(50:35):
new engine or whatever it is. But the fact that
some of these have like the ashtrays in them still yeah. Yeah, yeah,
I'm like, what an easy thing to fix? Like, you're
why why are we still saying you can't smoke on
a plane, right, it's like unleaded gasoline. It's we know that.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
Or drug free school zone. Rat would always got to me.
I'm like, well, where's the school.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, like is where's the drug school? Yeah, that's down
the street. It's a private school. Oh right, right, right,
right right. Your parents didn't send you there.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
But uh yeah, I think that's that's a good that's
a good point to the updating of things. Uh makes
me think of how many legacies we just sort of
live with. We just they're normalized. We accept them like
humans are super silly man. I say this with great affection.
It hit me one day I was I was walking

(51:32):
in the more business area of Buckhead You're in Atlanta,
and I realized I was the only dude in this
room who didn't have a tie on. And then it
hit me.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Right after that, I was like, tyser.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
Silly, I did that to ourselves. Wow.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
I looked into the history of it, and it's it's
from It's most likely from a time in European his
Street where really weird aristocrats and royals would have like
they would get super into the uniforms of their soldiers
or their mercenaries and be like, well, they.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
All have to have very tall hats. I think we
can agree, pantaloons and cravats, right, We'll give them scarves.
Why do they have scarves? I like how they look right,
So it's like they were so hot back then. They
were so they were always wedding.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
So it's just like they had you know, it's almost
like a kid playing with g I. Joe's or action
figures and dress them up. And then eventually from that
incredibly weird fashion thing comes the idea of the tie.
And because silly and because we grew up in a

(52:51):
place where this is sort of normalized. It's an ashtray
on an airplane. Everyone's like, oh, it's just there. And
then there will always be someone who, throughout the ages
sits on one of those planes as long as they're
around and says, hmm, I wonder which planes you can
smoke on? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Someone I guess it's still thinking that. So if they
never go away, then we always have to remind them
they can't. It's weird, it's you know.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
It also makes me think of the Another example would
be the the plug in the cars used to have
those cigarette lighters right, yeah, and now I guess.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
They're electrical outlets. Yes, if they even have them.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Now it's just the OX court I think for a
lot of people, Yeah, the OX which I'm past the OX.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah, I fully approve of that.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
I think it's I think it's weird to have the
push button lighter, but I guess it works in a
surviving they did. Yeah, yes, they were. They did work,
and you could do I guess cool stuff, you know
if you if you were in like a guy verse situation.
But I think a lot of people now in like

(54:00):
they're familiar with older cars, like kids growing up, they
would have no idea what that thing was. They might
hurt themselves.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Oh absolutely, you burn your finger off. Yeah, I don't know, man.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
I there's a word I learned recently called skew morph
and it's a really cool concept. You know. The floppy
disc is the save button on so many things. Yeah,
but no one like can put tune it together where
that was a miscal thing. Yeah, no one knows. I
don't remember the last time I used the floppy disc
or I don't think I've seen.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
It's only held like one megabyte. So yeah, you felt
like one word talking out on there these days. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
And if there was a if there was a game
that you would try to play on a computer, I'm
sure you had to have like a stack of these. Yeah.
But but I think about that stuff too a lot,
like we we love the exploring the origins of things
in a new light.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Or in a different way.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
Probably one of the one of the weirdest episodes we
did for stuff I don't want you to know. It's
kind of ridiculous history too. I probably played a bit
of a game with the title, but it was this
was Benjamin Franklin, a serial killer? Was he? No? I
don't think so. He was, however, living with in London.

(55:21):
He was one of the places he was living was
also home to what's called a resurrection man. And a
resurrection man was this weird thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
So Jack the Ripper.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Well, so at the time there was a kind of
a catch twenty two in the world of medicine. You
could become a doctor and you could experiment on cadavers,
but you could not legally get a cadaver. Oh weird,
So okay, So resurrection man would go and rob graves wow,

(55:59):
or take ex criminals. This is real. And then they
would smuggle them to these institutions, to these doctors. And
there was a doctor of the aspiring medical professional at
Ben Franklin's house. And they lived next to a public
square where there would be hangings. So somebody would get hanged.

(56:21):
This dude would jump the fence, get the body, take
it to the Franklin house and then do whatever ghoulish
stuff there were. There were like multiple corpses under the house.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Geez.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Ben Franklin also super horn Dog.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Oh gosh, that story there. He had very.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Progressive sexual attitudes for somewhat of the time.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Okay, like what well he would like he'd have an
only fans today or he'd been canceled from his tweets already. Yeah,
it'd be one of those. He would have been I've
been frank had had on Twitter, he'd be done today.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Right, Yeah, he would just he would have moved to it.
He was intoxica.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, like sex.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
He also had a lot of eccentricities.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
He liked to uh take what he.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
Called sun or air baths, which is he would just
take off all his clothes, all his clothing and then
go sit around and he didn't understand why other people
weren't into it.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
It's a weird boss, yeah, exactly. You know, don't just
don't go. Don't go in this place at like three
to four. Yeah, it's like he it's his thing. He
said we could, we were gonna go to the baths.
It's no, it's not what It's not what you think.
That's what. There's still some old white men who loved
doing that at LA fitness locker rooms, you know, where
they're just a little too comfortable with their nakedness. Yeah,

(57:53):
in a way, that's like okay, man, Like the thing.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
It gets me is, yeah, like JJ's SPA was bad
for this, but like locker rooms like YMCA, the guys
who uh, you'd sit in the locker room.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Everybody's mind their own business.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Yes, but the guys have to do put the knee up,
Put the knee up, and then you're sitting down.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Yeah, towels off. You're like, bro, like, okay, this is weird.
I don't even want to say anything. You don't you
don't like rude, You don't look at anything. You just
you just put your clothes back on.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
Exactly. But uh, let me see last weird. There's so
many weird beIN Franklin things. One thing I will say,
he tried to fix the alphabet. It's such an American
thing to do. He looked at the alphabet and he
was like, well, k yeah, it's like, clearly some of
these letters are bullshit and they need to write. He
was right.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
I don't know if he and I would agree on
the same choice of letters. But but everybody has this
unusual past. And I love that you're pointing out the
idea of canceling because it's not as though people are
better or worse than they ever were.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yet, you know, we're not getting worse. I don't think
in that way. I think we've always been shitty.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
Yeah, there are not more skeletons in the closet of civilization.
We just have flashlights now, yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
You know, because we've learned retroactively that all politicians are shitty. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
a lot just slept right. Okay.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
It's kind of like they self select when they get
Yet this, you know, I don't know, man, I think
we're in a very interesting, a fascinating, scary time. People
are growing up with the idea of privacy quickly eroding.
You know what I mean, children born today ten years

(59:41):
from now, the concept of privacy will seem so alien
and perhaps even creepy to them, you know. Yeah, But
silver lining would be Yeah, every documentary will look.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
So good there we go. Right, It's like because since
that kid was born, he's been filmed in four K, right, Like,
there's no found you don't add effects to it, just
for nostallgia purposes, and it looks so crystal clear. Yeah,
and the audio is way better.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Yeah, you know, yeah, because everybody will be micd up constantly. Yes,
uh I okay, that is a silver lining. But I'm
also terrified by that notion.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
It's a scary thought though. Yeah. In the realm of
conspiracy theories, we're kind of talking briefly the other day
about time travel. Yeah, tell me what you were saying,
like about that that story or theory. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
This study, there's a controversial study. It came out a
while back that took a couple of groups of college
students and they gave them, they split them into in
twain and they gave them the same test. And what
they found was this one group, the control group, it
is just taking regular tests performed about as you would expect.

(01:00:56):
The other group did something interesting. They took the same
test but before, or they left after taking the test.
Before they leave the experiment, they're given an amount of
time to study the questions to study for the test
after they took it, not before, so essentially learning the
answers to some of the questions after they answered them,

(01:01:16):
though after they've already done it. And in that study,
their conclusion was something was weird with human minds and
time because they the kids who studied after taking the
test had significantly statistically significant higher scores. That shouldn't happen

(01:01:37):
because it's not how our understanding of time works.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
So what does that mean?

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
It leads us to if we play the rabbit hole game,
or what it implies is the possibility of something of
a lot of things that would make respectable academics either
very excited or very irritated. So I want to be
careful we say this. Sure, we know that our understanding

(01:02:05):
of time and physics works now because of the nature
of our existence, but at very very small levels and
a very very big levels, shit is just.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Wild, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
It's like an art house film, you know, It's Yeah,
it doesn't make sense, and so at the very very
small level you have, you know, are our brains also
function on a quantum level because they're very very small
things that make up very very large things. And we
know that these We know that quarks can get entangled,

(01:02:44):
meaning that if there is I think we can think
of it like instant pen pals. If you become entangled
with let's say some other some other pain, lindsay out
in Cossacks time and every time someone.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Who looks like me or someone who is is a
version of me in a different time and space.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
Or you mean I'm still working on the treatment.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Okay, it's great, great pitch, Okay, I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
So no, I mean it's like the the idea is
this this thing, this quark, it can be There could
be one on Earth, they can conceivably be another one
across the universe, and they're somehow entangled. So the change
in one is instantly reflecting the other, which means they're
violating what we understand about time and space, right, and

(01:03:32):
this could also apply the past. It's like if we're
and again we're just kind of freestyling here, but think
it makes me think of people who believe in precognitive dreams. Right,
is there some kind of quantum action that you don't
that we don't understand? And I know none of this
has proven right, but it's spitballing, but we don't know, right,

(01:03:55):
because time is technically just the word is a construct
for us to make something here like a day a year, Right,
But what is time in the sense of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Some the other meaning?

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
I mean even Albert Einstein was on that. Yeah, he
believed that it was not some linear thing in the
way that we see it in like a the timeline
of an edit. Right, it's just going this way.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
I think that's I think that's completely possible because we
have to understand the universes we are experiencing. It is
only arriving to us through a relatively limited amount of
inputs site, smell, sound, taste, hearing, you know what I mean.
We can build things that can tell us a little
bit more, but that that's not the same thing as

(01:04:50):
the full experience. So I think it's how cool would
it be if there's a different part of the universe
and time just doesn't function the same way? Right? I
mean I don't and like the idea when you explain
how we measure time. If we explain that to an alien,
it would sound bizarre and cultish, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Like, you guys, stick to what I mean, because like
it's almost like there needs to be a different word
for the time that we're speaking about. Yes, his time
in the sense of everyday life is what time is it?
How much time do you have? How much time has
it been since that happened? How much time until this happens.
It's just like a reference point. Yeah, it's just something right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
It's just a way of putting ourselves in that edit
where are we?

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
But like it's like we don't have.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
The word for it because we don't even we don't
even know that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
It exists fully. But I think if we ever unlock that, yeah,
that's how we get to the cool spacecrafts. Yeah, and
you know, actually get to another planet besides it taking
like five years to do.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
So let me ask you this. We know that technological
suppression is real. That is an actual conspiracy that silly curved.
But how far do you think it goes? How like
sci fi level do you think the suppressed stuff is?

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Ooh, I bet you it goes pretty far. Yeah, I
think that it's mostly probably being gimped because of money, okay, right,
Like I mean, Apple does that with their iPhones every year. Right,
They've had the technology to do a lot of things

(01:06:29):
years before they ever implemented it. So you know, I
think that until you know money can be made off
of it, commercial flying is gonna suck, right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Right, Yeah, I mean that makes sense. Is It's one
thing that blew my mind. There is something called the
National Invention Secrecy Act nineteen fifty four.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
It's a real thing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Okay, This is what I mean when I say some
conspiracies are true. If let's say you, you and I
invent an amazing it could be anything. An amazing toothpaste, right,
so you brush your teeth everlasting, everlasting toothpaste. You you
brush your teeth with it just once. You never have

(01:07:12):
to brush your teeth again. The US government can legally
go to the inventors of these things, that are discoverers
and say, nope, this is ours. Now you have a
gag order for the rest of your life. You have
to give us all your research. If you research anything
else about this, you have to do it for us.

(01:07:33):
We own the patent, and we will put you in
jail you speak. This is still active and so secret
that we don't know what they're scooping up. We suspect
a lot of it is like cryptography or different kind
of signals, intelligence and programming, and they do, I guess,
to be fair, they do pay you what they say

(01:07:57):
is fair. Yeah, but at that they never pay you
what's fair. It's like imminent domain when you widen the road,
right all right? Well, or jury duty when yeah, because
don't you get paid for jury duty?

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
I think so. Isn't it like twenty bucks or something
like that. I never make it. I always it's like
what they were paying you, like in the nineties.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
It's the good guys, like come on, I always just
I want to be on jury's I never had it.
I'mkno going on wood though, Yeah, yeah, I've never. I've
never made it past that. I treat it too much
like an audition, like you think that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
You're going to get some murder trial and your life audition, Like, yeah,
you're trying to impress. Yeah, this guy's took centric get
him out exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
This guy, I don't like how he's talking about jury nullification.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Yeah he knows he's not a good sample of this city.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Well, I would say maybe it's the system that should
be on trial, like get him out, get him out,
get him out of here, and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Someone really dumb replaces you, and someone's life is in
their hands.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Yeah, I love, I love the concept of it. But
I'm sure it's quite a slog and I'm sure you know,
as you said, things take so long in court systems.
I'm sure it's like a dog bit someone back in
you know, ninety six.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Yeah, and we're just getting to it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Yeah, we have to do it before the people involved die.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:09:25):
But yeah, I genuinely do think there are great discoveries ahead.
I know that there have been a lot of experiments
with deep time, as they call it, which maybe kind
of what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
But still, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
Really it's really tough because the most audacious thing we
can say here is that we know everything. We definitely don't.
We never have, no, I mean, we we are a
small percentage less ignorant than we were.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
But for these out the all of that seems I think, oh, yeah,
it is right, combustion engines, you know what, we're rookies
in that department.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
Yeah, there's there's more there's more ahead. I just I
don't know. I think it's like I keep saying, I
don't know. The to me, one of the dangerous things
we're encountering here is we have to realize that skepticism
can become an ideology or religion all its own, and
it can drive people away from the core tenet of

(01:10:30):
critical thought. Ignoring facts, ignoring facts.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Yeah, we're selecting them, or yes, selectively choosing cherry picking them. Yeah,
Like the FBI did that with JFK.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
They sent a memo to the because they can exert
tremendous influence on newspapers and news sources, they sent a
memo and the wake of the Kennedy assassination, we can
make this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
What we will.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
But they said, they said, look, here's what happened. The
rvy Oswalt, this guy, this this bullet tragedy. The President's dead.
That is what happened. Any other attempt to explain this
doing any other narrative like that, you have to call
it a conspiracy theory.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Right, you need to dismiss it. And there goes that
term forever. That there goes that term forever.

Speaker 4 (01:11:20):
But but yeah, it's it's a bit of it's a
bit of ridiculous history. But I'm kind of I'm kind
of excited about the future.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
I like like sort of just like to close it out,
like what do you hope in your lifetime you get
an answer to Oh, wow, that's a great like before
you die, like, oh, we figured that out.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
Created non organic intelligence. I think space, it'd be so
cool to go to space. I know it's impractical for
you to go to space. Yeah, Like I'm not at
the top of a list somewhere, right, Yeah, And I
don't think. I don't think I'm want to necessarily pay
millions of dollars to an unhinged billionaire no to take

(01:12:06):
take me to space for eleven minutes. Yeah, woo.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Yeah, it's like that's not real space. It's not I
want to go deep space.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
I like how we're already stuck up kids about it,
like that's little pretendently.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
I want more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
But yeah, that I think that'd be cool.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
I think we're going to see some fascinating opportunities for
empowerment and betterment of the human species. Like the stuff
happening with biotech is amazing right now. It's calling real
questions like philosophical questions to account. Yeah, you mean, like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Just medical advancements with technology and cells and like.

Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
Gene therapy, short Soldiers, the movie Gadiga. Yeah, all right,
that stuff's all.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
On the way.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
And again to your point, we might reach a moment
where the economy is practiced now cripples some of that
stuff or like makes it impossible for the majority of
people to enjoy it. Like what if there's a what okay,
what if there's a gene therapy that one will make

(01:13:14):
everybody live to one hundred and fifty. It doesn't matter
what they do, that's not going to come out. The
economy can't take it. We're already as too many of us,
there are too many people depend on their age distribution, right,
Like economists don't like to say it out loud, but
a lot of modern civilizations are built on the assumption

(01:13:37):
that people will die. Yeah, certain time, the new ones
can come in, right exactly, so new people can come
in the house. And you know, no, no economists is
really going.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
To say that, going to leave with that because it
sounds fucking ghoulish, does you know, like we built this machine?

Speaker 4 (01:13:54):
Yeah, but yeah, that's that's kind of stuff I'm looking for.
I'm confident we'll see that. I'd love I'd love love
a sea monster, some kind of would that would be cool? Right, Yeah,
there's the there could still be one.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
It's big enough, right, there could be one. Yeah, the
ocean's big enough. Yeah there's yeah, Like that's that's not
off the table. We lose stuff in there all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
We love We've lost everything in that damn thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Yeah, fucking that's ub like, yeah, it's there's all kinds
of wordshit in there has to be. What about you?

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
What are you look forward to?

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
I'd like to have some definitive take on aliens. Yeah, yeah,
I like that's coming to a head. I feel like
it's sort of reaching a point where the skepticism and
the over believing is kind of like crashing into each
other a little bit now, where it's like something has
to give, right, because we know that science is only

(01:14:49):
further and more and more supporting the idea of E
T life. It's just a matter of have they ever
been here? Yeah? And if they haven't, then that's very
interesting that some of us have convinced ourselves that they
have when it's also possible that they could have, right,
I I just haven't. I just want one thing, you know,
I just want like give it to me. It doesn't

(01:15:11):
have to explain everything. But if you could just be
like that is an.

Speaker 4 (01:15:15):
Alien body or yeah, like just just so I'm not
losing sleep over it anymore exactly, or tell me that
is all wrong, and then you know, then I'll stop
looking over there, just definitively do so.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Yes, yeah, yes, I agree, that's what I want. Yeah,
and hopefully we get that in our lifetime. You know,
I think we've earned it our generation. I feel like, hm,
we we deserve that. One. I hope they're ets listening now, right,
I hope they I hope they reach out, you know, yeah,
like quip, you know, we're friendly enough. Show yourselves even

(01:15:48):
if like we can't tell people publicly, just let us
know exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Yeah, then you'll be the guy the koop that no
one believes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Right, Like if I was, I always joke around like
if I was ever abducted, like it would be one terrifying.
I probably wouldn't enjoy that, but it'd be holy shit,
like a one of a kind of experience. I'd almost
have to say yes, right, But that can happen to
me and I could know for the fact that it
did happen, but most people wouldn't believe me that it happened.
So I'm everyone else with that story. Now I'll walk

(01:16:17):
around and Ione's gonna be like, Wow, he really has
lost it, hadn't he?

Speaker 4 (01:16:20):
Ever since he made that alien podcast. He's fucking lost
his mind. Oh man, I don't know that you'll have
even You'll have even more people reaching out, I think
to tell you about the time they were abducted because
there's a fascination with this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Yeah. Well, thanks man. This has been an absolute blast.
We just scratched the surface of conspiracies. But it's always
fun chatting with you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
I'm must get a beer soon and talk even more
about time travel.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
Let's figure it out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Yeah, let's hang out.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
Awesome, dude. Well, thank you, bro, Thank you? Cheers? Wait?

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Why am I point you?

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
I forgot where I came. I'm like, thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:16:55):
There you are?

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
Which camera be camera? B push it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
Talking to Death is a production of Tenorfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay for Tenorfoot TV.
Executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, Executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, with original music by Makeup

(01:17:22):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Cohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover
art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

(01:17:43):
Talking to Death podcast dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses you you can
subscribe to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to
tenderfootplus dot com