July 5, 2024 • 32 mins
Payne Lindsey is a renowned podcaster, filmmaker, and investigative journalist best known for co-creating and hosting the hit true crime podcast "Up and Vanished" and "High Strange". His compelling storytelling and meticulous investigative work have captivated audiences, leading to the reopening of cold cases and shedding light on unsolved mysteries. Lindsey's work has earned him a dedicated following and a reputation for bringing a fresh, engaging approach to true crime and investigative journalism.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening
and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to Talking to Death. Today is July fifth.
Yesterday was America's Independence Day. I don't know about you, guys,
but I spent the day on a boat, drinking copious
mounts of alcohol, as the founding fathers would have wanted.
But today is a new day, and today we have
a fun episode for you. You may have heard of
(00:41):
this man payin Lindsey, hosting creator of Talking to Death,
Up and Vanished, High, Strange Atlanta Monster, among many others.
Pain was recently featured on The Monica Pearson Show, which
plays on the Atlanta Journal Constitutions podcast. Monica Pearson reached
out to us recently in hope that we can play
the episode with Pain on Talking to Death. So we're
(01:03):
really excited to do that. It's so rare you get
to hear from Pain on this show. He's usually the
one interviewing so this will be a fun switch up
to where you can actually hear Monica interview Pain, get
to know a little bit more about Pain, maybe some
things you didn't know or had never heard before. He
talks about his journey in podcasting, Tenderfoot as a company,
his journey as a musician and TV, and all the
(01:24):
different things he's done through his life, all the things
he still wants to do. So without further ado, the
man you know and love Pain Lindsay.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
True crime and mystery stories reign supreme in the podcast world,
and if you are a frequent listener, you know Pain Lindsey.
Lindsey is a director, documentary filmmaker, and podcast host, best
known for his award winning podcast Up and Vanished. This year,
he took audiences out of this world literally, do.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
You feel like you're really truly alone? Or do you
ever look up at the sky and feel like there
has to be more out there?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Alongside his co producer Donald Albright is a UFO podcast
called High Strange delivered more chills than a murder mystery.
I'm Monica Pearson. This is the Monica Pearson Show. If
there is one thing you know about me, I love Atlanta.
Every week, I will introduce you to Atlanta's most groundbreaking
(02:38):
innovators and influencers, those inspired by the city to make
a mark in our world. If you are from Atlanta
or the South, chances are these folks need no introduction
at all. This is the Monica Pearson Show from the
Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Paine, you know how long it's been since I've seen you?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I mean, I know it's been years, but how many years?
Is the question?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Too many years?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Because four five?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh, it's been longer than that when you did Monster
you know.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
So that would have been twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Atlantima, which is crazy missing and murdered children.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I can't believe we've both changed.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I'm now gray, you're now blonde and.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Short hair too.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Yeah, I'm getting old.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You know, I didn't realize that you were from Kennesau, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
You do not even have a Southern accent.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
People say that though.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean, if you go hair on my uncle's for
five minutes, it comes out a little bit from me.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
But I don't know why I got the non regional
thing going on.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I didn't consciously try to do it, but it'll come
out if I hear my dad say something and I'll say.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It back on out here I go.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Now, what was it like growing up in Kennesaw?
Speaker 5 (03:54):
What is your family like my family?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm the oldest. I have two younger sisters and a
younger brother. My brother actually just got married. I grew
up in the suburbs, you know, and I was always
that kid who was writing stories and filming stuff with
the video camera, kind of more introverted, and I kind
of just you know, I wanted to do something like
(04:18):
that for my career eventually, but you know, my parents
supported that for the most part until I know, used
all my dad's college money and he said.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
You're cut off.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And then I felt like a starving artist and I
had to figure out my stuff for real.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Well, let's go back to you talking about being the
oldest in the family that because you had more responsibility.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Oh man, I paved the way for all those guys.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean they're great, but I mean I got in
trouble first for everything. I mean, my brother got away
with everything. I mean he was stowing house parties and stuff.
I mean my little sister found a beer can one time,
and I was grounded for like a week because if
my dad fould one beer can in the yard. There
wasn't one. It had to be one of a hundred.
We just missed one.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
So with this interest in film, I think you got
your first camera when you were at ten.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
I was in sixth grade, so was I guess about ten?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
And did you ask for it? How did how did
you come about getting this little gadget?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I did ask for it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My mom had an old higha camera and I used
to like to do plays and stuff for my family,
like with my siblings, and I wanted to be able
to watch it back or create it in a way
that it didn't have to be live, and so I
used my mom's camera, and then eventually I asked for
my own camera, and my grandpa gave me one for Christmas.
So well, VHS camera.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Do you remember the first film that you made?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, there's a couple of them. I mean, my siblings
were always my actors. Then this one when my little
sister it was like a power Puff Girl thing where
she had this blonde wig on.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
And it was ridiculous. I gotta find these old dastes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But I was just trying to emulate what I was seeing,
you know, on TV and try to make some either scary.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Moment or you know, how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Like with camera trip and just trying to figure out
what I could do to, you know, impress those around
me with my skills.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So in high school, you would have been voted most
likely to.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
I don't know, it's so weird growing mccassle.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's like, back then doing this wasn't that cool, which
sounds crazy now now it's like everyone's a content creator.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
But I was kind of an outlier a little bit
with that.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It was most people don't make it, so it's like, Okay,
if I'm trying to be an artist or filmmaker, it's
like that's a long shot, right, And it felt like
that to me too. I think now i'd be way cooler,
But back then I was kind of like, oh, that's
that guy who does that weird stuff sometimes, but you know,
he's cool. But like, I wasn't like the popular kid
per se, and I hung around with those same people,
(06:48):
but it was not really like a popular thing to
be doing.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Didn't mind. But it's like the total opposite now, which
is kind of funny.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Outlier back then, Now you're right in the midst of it.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, and I don't mind that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I mean all I ever wanted to do was do
what I'm passionate about and be like sustainable, you know,
just be able to create stuff and pay my bills.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Like that was just that simple thought.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
So you went to college, and then fun went to college,
and then you went back to college. What's the deal
with the college?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
You guys need me to finish college?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
No, I know you didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I mean, I just didn't like schooling explained it. Yeah,
I just honestly I hated school. But I just I
wasn't a good student.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I always was in my head about thinking about what
I was going to create next, and didn't pay attention. Well,
I was thinking about the next thing, and I was
trying to, you know, make it on my own, even
to my own detriment.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I was going to try to do that, and so
maybe I learned the hard way, and I kind of did.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And once I round my dad's college money, I was like,
oh man, I'm like, you know, a server, and I'm
not making that much money and my as not going
to help me with college anymore.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
I gotta figure this out now.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I ended up figuring it out, but it took
years of you know, just grinding.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
How did you come up with the idea of doing
a podcast?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Because when you started podcasting it was really new.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It was I just I was at a point in
my career where I was tired of being broke and
I was tired of doing stuff.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
For other people.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I was a music video director and it was cool
at first, and it kind of just became draining. I
didn't like, you know, putting all this effort into something
that was for someone else, really, and so I just
had this idea one day, like, I really like these
true crime documentaries.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
How does someone become the person who does that?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Did they just decide one day, Hey, I'm gonna do
a true crime documentary. I was like maybe, And so
I thought maybe I should do that. And I listened
to Cereal because my friend showed it to me, and
I was blown away that I that I, with my
ADHD brain, was so enthralled by an audio show. I
really really truly loved it. I was like, guys, you
(09:11):
got to all check this out. And so I had
them I have maybe I make this this true crime documentary,
this investigation, but I'll make a podcast as a proof
of concepts to maybe get the Hollywood execs to bite
on me. However, this works here, so it's really just
a stepping stone in my head. And then that really
(09:32):
you know, blew up and gained traction. Then it became
halfway through another business, which became my business.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
So that is a lesson for people like you who
say I have a dream.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Now I just kind of figure out the way to
make it work.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh yeah, I did not set out at all to
be I didn't even like understand that you could even
make money with a podcast because.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
There wasn't really a blueprint for that. I didn't know
that all.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so clearly it wasn't like a viable business plan
at that at that time ended up being one, but
on accident.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Right, So how did you get this love for true
crime because the terror Grins did?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It was wrong with me, right, No, that was.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Wrong with you.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
It's like you have this mine where you like puzzles
and you you are trying to solve the puzzle.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So where does this come from?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I think I just had this sort of innate curiosity
that I think a lot of people have just you
know it, like what happened? Like why can't we figure
that out right, And so I'm just looking at Tara
Grinstead's case, which was season one of Up and Vanished.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Just look at the logline of the whole thing. I'm like,
what happened here? Like this is ridiculous? How do we
not know yet?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And it just kind of bothers me a little bit.
I want to make sense of it. I mean, I
guess so much so that I would make a whole
podcast about it and you know, put myself right in
the middle of it. But I've always just kind of
been fascinated by even the people who do messed up things.
Why are they doing that? Because I can't ever fathom
doing that myself. So what makes someone you know, evil
(11:09):
or do this or whatever? Those things kind of pique
my curiosity because I don't understand it really and I
want to get as close to it as I can
to it because it's just mind blowing to me.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Well, the fact that you have millions of people literally
listening to your podcast, what does that.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Tell you that it's working? Okay? That I yeah, that
I could make one more? I guess No, I think
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I just I never imagined there being I didn't know
what the ceiling was for an audience, right I was.
I thought five thousand people was cool because I knew
it was more Facebook friends than I had at the time.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I was like, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was like, you know, it's five thousand people, you know.
But then it became you know, one hundred thousand million millions.
I was like, wow, Like I don't even like really
compute that really, but it's validating and it really you know,
up in Fantasy Season one was very hard for me
to do, probably one of the hardest times in my life,
to be honest Why because I was kind of out
(12:12):
there on an island by myself a little bit, and
I was very aware of the risk was that I
was taking, and it was just unfamiliar territory and it
was something very serious that was living, breathing, changing, and
I didn't have a blueprint to follow, and I didn't
(12:33):
want to misstep or mess up, but also.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Didn't want to be too scared to do anything.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And so honestly, the listeners really kind of made me
feel validated to keep going a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Now. You and I met when you were doing Atlanta Monster.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The surprise for me back then was that even though
you lived in Kannas.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Are you really hadn't heard of the missing and murder?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I really, and I hate that that's even true, but
I really hadn't. And I was like, you know, my
business partner brought it up to me, and I didn't
really know what he was talking about. And I looked
it up and was like, how did I not know
about this? And I kind of thought, I mean, if
I didn't know about it, there's got to be other
people from my generation or from where I came from
(13:17):
who maybe didn't know about it either.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
And that turned out to be true.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
There's others who knew about it but didn't know the
whole story or had not thought about it in years,
and it was maybe left unsolved in some way for them.
And so it felt right to explore this again, and
just as a history lesson.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Even so, let me tell you this new one with
the UFO. That's scary. So what about you? Are you
believe or skeptic?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So before I made the show, I always thought it
was a fun idea, right, I like Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I liked you know encounters, you know et It's.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Just like a fun thing, Like, wouldn't it be cool
if it was sort of my thought line, right, And
as I dug into it and really started talking to people,
I was like, man.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
This is ridiculous, how real it is?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And I was kind of surprised myself, and I went
from sure, maybe to absolutely there's something going on.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Is it everything that we think all the time?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, But I also think that we know nothing and
it's silly for us to think that we know anything.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And that were the only creations.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
That would be a bigger anomaly than there being thousands
of other things out there.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
So how do you come up with the ideas for
your podcast?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I mean they wake you up in the middle of the.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Night, go, oh my god, this actually this idea was
I remember a Christmas break two years ago. I thought, man,
it would be cool if I could make a podcast
about UFOs. Then my first thought was how am I
going to pull this off? I know, the first thing
I was going to say is like, oh no, man,
Like you're that true crime guy and it's like is
(15:01):
he going hop the deep end.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
A little bit here? Right?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And I was like, well, how do I tell this
story in a way that doesn't feel like it's force
fed to you? It's like all the UFO stuff I've
ever watched for the most part growing up is like
fan service stuff. It's for people who believe in it,
and so it makes you feel.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Like, Okay, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Come on, but where's the objective approach about Okay, like
what's this going on?
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Because everyone's I think curious about that, and if you,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Staunchly don't believe at all, I think that you haven't
really looked at the information yet.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
And I just kind of.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Took that approach and kept building from that and really
wanted to have an investigative approach like I do with
any sort of true crime story I'm doing, but just
apply it to something different. And I liked the liberty
of that where it didn't have the same sensitivity as
this other stories that I've been a part of, and
it had this sort of fun element to it, and
(15:58):
I just like to, you know, able to show off
some of my other passions and skills through that and
also really kind of tell a story that I think
needs to be told.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
This is the Monica Pearson Show from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Well,
you know, one of your passions also is music. Are
you still in the band right side?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Of the tree.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I'm not still in the band. Maybe one day we'll
bring the band back together, but I did.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
You don't have time anymore for your music.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's like, once you're like a music artist at all,
you always think about that and you're like, I've made
songs in the recent past with some of my friends,
but not in a serious professional way. I think there'll
be a time where I'm like, yeah, like here's some
stuff I made for fun and just put it out.
But yeah, it's kind of how I got into, like
(16:55):
kind of where I got here. I was doing I
was filming on my own videos on YouTube, and then
I started doing parody videos of rap songs, and I
started making my own rap songs and they were ridiculous
and people liked them. They were funny, and you know,
garnered this big sort of YouTube audience and did that
for several years, met a bunch of cool producers in
(17:17):
Atlanta that I still know today, and eventually it kind
of got burnt out and was started to feel like
a starving artist and decided to focus more on my
filmmaking and try to build a business out of that,
and did that for years, and then you know, got
burnt out on that too, and then I made a podcast,
and you know, it's scary to think back, like, wow,
(17:39):
what if I didn't make a podcast, because you know,
if it didn't work, I was just going to pivot
to the next thing. It's like, okay, whatever that was,
but it's like next. But it just happened to work.
But I had failed a million times before that, though,
I still.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Feel you still fail at what.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I just I don't know. It isn't always feel like
you're doing what do it mean?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Look like okay?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And I like to challenge myself enough to not just
be so settled in how cool this is right now,
because I think that mindset is a slippery slope. Sometimes
I like the challenge of doing better than I did
last time, so all these other things I've learned become
more like autonomous really, and the challenge is fun.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So you've become extremely successful.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
What has it cost you everything?
Speaker 5 (18:35):
I was kidding it's cost me that as a.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Joke, right, But I looked at your eyes and.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I know, right yeah, that there was a moment a
couple of years ago where I looked up and I
was like, how do we get here? And you hear
people say that sometimes and you're like, what do you
even mean? How do you not know how you got here?
But I really felt like like I made up and vanished.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
It was a really big success.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was new to me, and my first thought after
that was, I don't want to just be the up
and vanish guy, and I want to grab the bull
by the horns. So I immediately went and made Atlanta Monster,
huge pivot, bigger risk, and I took it very seriously.
Then I made up in Vanish season two, and then
(19:18):
I made another show Radio Rental and it was after
like all that three years, I kind of looked around.
I just had tunnel vision on, had the blinders on
on purpose.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I was like, where are some of my old friends?
Or you know, why am I so lost?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And so I kind of had that moment where I
had to recalibrate, and that took some time, and that's
a constant you know, look in the mirror reality check
that you just got to do that I still do.
But I was able to come out of that alive,
and I, you know, kind of protect myself from going
down that far again. It's been really hard, but also
(19:57):
I think I'm better at managing it now, and I
kind of like the journey. It's like I used to
be so concerned about getting somewhere, but it's like I
already did things.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
That I thought I would never do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So now I'm just like, well, I want to do
the things that I thought I could definitely not do,
and if I don't, that's fine. But I like the
journey And like, once I accepted that, it became less
stressful a little bit.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So how do you relax.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Just with my friends hanging out, you know, dealing with
true crime stuff and heavy material and you know, a
heartbroken family, victims family.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's very draining and it's a lot. It's heavy.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But thankfully, like the people that I work with are
like some of my best friends, and we can navigate
it because we've learned a lot from each other and
we can sort of it's like our own little adventure
that we're on, you know. And if it wasn't that,
it would be I probably couldn't keep doing it. Why
the name Tenderfoot TV, Well, my dad wanted me to
(21:04):
join Boy Scouts. Wait, he made me join Boy Scouts.
He is a Eagle Scout. Oh, he's he's the middle brother.
He has four other brothers. They all were Eagle Scouts basically,
and so he's like, I want you to join Boy Scouts.
I was like, Dad, I don't want to do that.
It's corny, Like I don't want to do this made
me and made me do it. I wrote my friend
into it. I only made it as far as the
(21:26):
first level, which they don't give out for free, but
it's a complete stuff, which the lowest.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
Rank is Tenderfoot.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And I was trying to think of a cool name
for my company, so I sounded more legit.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
So I was like, hey, from Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta,
which was nothing. It was just me and my apartment.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
But I heard Sarah Kanick say something something about some
radio station. I was like, where am I from? It
just became the name of my company. Yeah, that's the
real story. So for that, I'm like, hey dad, I'm Tenderfoot.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
That's still so your dad cuts you off. What see
think of your success? Now?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
They love it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I think that they always probably saw something in me.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
But even if you're really talented, it's just hard out here.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I know very talented people who just haven't got a
shot at it yet.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I know more people like that than not.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And if there's so much as out of your control,
so to be able to, you know, be successful in
the business side of things too, and be sustainable in
any way as an artist is just an accomplishment on
its own. And I was really concerned that I could
never do it and if I, if I, if I
couldn't do something like this, I would be I would
(22:45):
be probably nothing.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
I would I wouldn't have a lot to show for anything.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
But once I got a taste of, like, hey, I
think I can make this work, I was never ever
going to back down on that because I knew how
scary it was going back that way. So I think
they're definitely proud, and I'm just glad that I was
able to, you know, complete the loop a little bit
and say, hey, like, maybe all that dumb stuff I
was doing not going to the college worked out.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Did you give it back with money?
Speaker 5 (23:14):
No? The E didn't bring that up.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But I'll say this though, which if my dad listens
to this, he knows that we're even because I lived
in Pasty Market, like the flats there for a year
or so, and I was the busiest time of my life,
so I was always gone and my parents had just
sold their house and they asked if they could stay
with me. I was like sure, thinking like how cool
(23:36):
is it that my parents wanted to stay with me.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Then a year goes by it I'm like, guys, you
got a oh.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Right, I can't bring a girl over here. So I
think we're even how for as an adult. I mean,
they had like all their friends over and stuff. I
was happy to have shared like Atlanta with them because
they never really kind of spent time in the city
like that, and they like fell in love with it,
which was cool.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
But I think we're even those writ checks, you know, that.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Was the reverse. Usually it's the kids to go live
with their parents.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
I know, I know, I thought it was really cool.
I was like, no soon, yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
What would our listeners be surprised to learn about you?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think that because of what I do, there's like
a serious nature to it that I take seriously, and
you know, I think that every other time I'm like
pretty like goofy and silly, and it's kind of how
I just even deal with hard stuff. Sometimes I think
people would be maybe taking it back by that a
(24:43):
little bit. But if you know me, you know that
I'm like that, and then you know that like when
I'm getting serious and down to business like I do,
and I will, but like, I don't want to live.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
In that state forever.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I kind of want to just be silly and look
at all the silly things on life too, And like
I liked that sort of mentality as well. I think
people might be surprised that I'm not this super serious
detective kind of guy, because I'm really not.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I just make one, I play one on my podcast.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
But that voice of yours is so distinctive.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I mean, that's like, thank you, but that's I still
don't really compute that either.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
I appreciate that you don't.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I look at someone like you who has that iconic voice,
and I grew up, you know, watching you on TV
and hearing your voice, never thinking that I had anything
broadcast worthy at all. I felt like an imposter doing
that a little bit. I guess people you know, proved
me wrong a little bit, but I never really looked
at it like that.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
So come for me. That means a lot, and I
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, I love your voice.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I love your voice.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You use music in your podcast in a way to
set the scene and then to move from scene to scene.
So music is that just for you to play? You
really think very seriously about.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
What you use.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, that's really kind of my part of my process.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean it's not everyone is like that, which I
get that, but for me, I.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Like setting the tone of this thing.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I want to feel what this feels like. And that's
I really kind of connected to it in that way.
So everything you've ever heard that I was like a
strong part of like any shows that I've hosted, But
at some point I felt that to my core and
then I eventually kind of like, you know, move past
that because.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I can't live in that state. But I like the
music part of it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
It makes me feel connected, and you know, I have
a passion for music, and it's cool to be able
to incorporate that in ways that are cinematic and I
one of my good friends is our composer and we
have a lot of fun making bizarre.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Cues and it's it's cool.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
You know, you really are a musician, you do?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I mean, not really, but I'll take it. But I
think I'm I have that sort of brain. But I've
never been like an instrument guy. I could, you know,
write lyrics, sing, poorly, but also I get the structure
and stuff, so I'm able to, you know, utilize music
(27:21):
that we have and you know, maybe disassemble it and
reassemble it in a way that is not.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
So banging it on your head and more inviting you
to it. Right.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
What scares you?
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Oh man?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I think everything is kind of a little bit scary.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, I mean I think that just there's the unknown
is scary.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And you know, I think everyone wants a little bit
of control in their lives, right, some more than others.
I feel the same way. I think the unknown is
super scary. And I've been in so many uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Where I like this is it or I can't take this.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So many times that I kind of just got over it,
over it a little bit. I still feel like that,
but I know it's not the end of the world,
and so I and I've also learned that I can
be more myself because I think that it's.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You know, I was giving myself all the stress the
whole time, like trying to perform for somebody else.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
But yeah, I think just life is scary. The unknown
is scary.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But you know, all you can do is what you
can do, and that's my mindset and just hope it works.
That's it. But I think the unknown is scary.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well you ever get married again.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I would totally get married again. Definitely, not immediately. Yeah,
at first I was like, I'm never getting married again.
But it's not like that. It's more, you know, I
wanted to like heal from that and move on.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
But if it was the right person, yeah I would.
I would do that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I'm not necessarily seeking that, but if I, you know,
fell in love with that person in that way and
it was that part of our lives.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
Absolutely, But aren't.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
You really truly married to Tinderfoot and your possible exactly?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So I don't want to and I know that I
and I also know that I won't be like this forever.
There'll be there'll be a time where I can step
back a little bit more to do those.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But I don't want to, you know, over commit and
bring in somebody that I that I I end up
letting down because I have to take care of this
right now. Because I'm also looking out for my livelihood.
I also want to, like, I want this just to work.
I want I want to win, so I can. You know,
why is my sister, you know, asking money for school supplies?
Speaker 6 (29:49):
Like?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
Screwed that right?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
It's like, I want to be able to help and
create and not think about the bill's money.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Part, because that's that part sucks.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
You know, there's still a lot of kid in you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Oh yeah, I'm a young soul like truly, but yeah,
I'll think I can change that. So if I if
I didn't, if I wasn't successful artist anyway, I'd be
in big trouble.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So it would be pain.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Ibi Payne, thank you so much for sharing this time
with me. You don't know how much this means to me.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
This show was produced by Ryan Horn, Tyson Horn, and
Mere Davis. Audio recording and podcast production by Shane Beckler.
Our executive producer is Samantha Stamler. Additional production provided by
Shia Everett, Kamal McAllister, Jason Lillard, and Kamanie Colmer. Special
thanks to AJC Editor in Chief Leroy Chapman and AJC
(30:47):
President and Publisher Andrew Moose. New episodes of The Monica
Pearson Show drop every Tuesday, so be sure to follow
me on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
And check out the videos on AJC dot com.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Talking to Death is a production of tenorfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For tenorfoot TV,
executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup
(31:28):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover
art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website
(31:49):
Talking to Death podcast dot com.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus
dot com
Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening
and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to Talking to Death. Today is July fifth.
Yesterday was America's Independence Day. I don't know about you, guys,
but I spent the day on a boat, drinking copious
mounts of alcohol, as the founding fathers would have wanted.
But today is a new day, and today we have
a fun episode for you. You may have heard of
(00:41):
this man payin Lindsey, hosting creator of Talking to Death,
Up and Vanished, High, Strange Atlanta Monster, among many others.
Pain was recently featured on The Monica Pearson Show, which
plays on the Atlanta Journal Constitutions podcast. Monica Pearson reached
out to us recently in hope that we can play
the episode with Pain on Talking to Death. So we're
(01:03):
really excited to do that. It's so rare you get
to hear from Pain on this show. He's usually the
one interviewing so this will be a fun switch up
to where you can actually hear Monica interview Pain, get
to know a little bit more about Pain, maybe some
things you didn't know or had never heard before. He
talks about his journey in podcasting, Tenderfoot as a company,
his journey as a musician and TV, and all the
(01:24):
different things he's done through his life, all the things
he still wants to do. So without further ado, the
man you know and love Pain Lindsay.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
True crime and mystery stories reign supreme in the podcast world,
and if you are a frequent listener, you know Pain Lindsey.
Lindsey is a director, documentary filmmaker, and podcast host, best
known for his award winning podcast Up and Vanished. This year,
he took audiences out of this world literally, do.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
You feel like you're really truly alone? Or do you
ever look up at the sky and feel like there
has to be more out there?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Alongside his co producer Donald Albright is a UFO podcast
called High Strange delivered more chills than a murder mystery.
I'm Monica Pearson. This is the Monica Pearson Show. If
there is one thing you know about me, I love Atlanta.
Every week, I will introduce you to Atlanta's most groundbreaking
(02:38):
innovators and influencers, those inspired by the city to make
a mark in our world. If you are from Atlanta
or the South, chances are these folks need no introduction
at all. This is the Monica Pearson Show from the
Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Paine, you know how long it's been since I've seen you?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I mean, I know it's been years, but how many years?
Is the question?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Too many years?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Because four five?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh, it's been longer than that when you did Monster
you know.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
So that would have been twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Atlantima, which is crazy missing and murdered children.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I can't believe we've both changed.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I'm now gray, you're now blonde and.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Short hair too.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Yeah, I'm getting old.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You know, I didn't realize that you were from Kennesau, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
You do not even have a Southern accent.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
People say that though.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean, if you go hair on my uncle's for
five minutes, it comes out a little bit from me.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
But I don't know why I got the non regional
thing going on.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I didn't consciously try to do it, but it'll come
out if I hear my dad say something and I'll say.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It back on out here I go.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Now, what was it like growing up in Kennesaw?
Speaker 5 (03:54):
What is your family like my family?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm the oldest. I have two younger sisters and a
younger brother. My brother actually just got married. I grew
up in the suburbs, you know, and I was always
that kid who was writing stories and filming stuff with
the video camera, kind of more introverted, and I kind
of just you know, I wanted to do something like
(04:18):
that for my career eventually, but you know, my parents
supported that for the most part until I know, used
all my dad's college money and he said.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
You're cut off.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And then I felt like a starving artist and I
had to figure out my stuff for real.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Well, let's go back to you talking about being the
oldest in the family that because you had more responsibility.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Oh man, I paved the way for all those guys.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean they're great, but I mean I got in
trouble first for everything. I mean, my brother got away
with everything. I mean he was stowing house parties and stuff.
I mean my little sister found a beer can one time,
and I was grounded for like a week because if
my dad fould one beer can in the yard. There
wasn't one. It had to be one of a hundred.
We just missed one.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
So with this interest in film, I think you got
your first camera when you were at ten.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
I was in sixth grade, so was I guess about ten?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
And did you ask for it? How did how did
you come about getting this little gadget?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I did ask for it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My mom had an old higha camera and I used
to like to do plays and stuff for my family,
like with my siblings, and I wanted to be able
to watch it back or create it in a way
that it didn't have to be live, and so I
used my mom's camera, and then eventually I asked for
my own camera, and my grandpa gave me one for Christmas.
So well, VHS camera.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Do you remember the first film that you made?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, there's a couple of them. I mean, my siblings
were always my actors. Then this one when my little
sister it was like a power Puff Girl thing where
she had this blonde wig on.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
And it was ridiculous. I gotta find these old dastes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But I was just trying to emulate what I was seeing,
you know, on TV and try to make some either scary.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Moment or you know, how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Like with camera trip and just trying to figure out
what I could do to, you know, impress those around
me with my skills.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So in high school, you would have been voted most
likely to.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
I don't know, it's so weird growing mccassle.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's like, back then doing this wasn't that cool, which
sounds crazy now now it's like everyone's a content creator.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
But I was kind of an outlier a little bit
with that.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It was most people don't make it, so it's like, Okay,
if I'm trying to be an artist or filmmaker, it's
like that's a long shot, right, And it felt like
that to me too. I think now i'd be way cooler,
But back then I was kind of like, oh, that's
that guy who does that weird stuff sometimes, but you know,
he's cool. But like, I wasn't like the popular kid
per se, and I hung around with those same people,
(06:48):
but it was not really like a popular thing to
be doing.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Didn't mind. But it's like the total opposite now, which
is kind of funny.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Outlier back then, Now you're right in the midst of it.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, and I don't mind that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I mean all I ever wanted to do was do
what I'm passionate about and be like sustainable, you know,
just be able to create stuff and pay my bills.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Like that was just that simple thought.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
So you went to college, and then fun went to college,
and then you went back to college. What's the deal
with the college?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
You guys need me to finish college?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
No, I know you didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I mean, I just didn't like schooling explained it. Yeah,
I just honestly I hated school. But I just I
wasn't a good student.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I always was in my head about thinking about what
I was going to create next, and didn't pay attention. Well,
I was thinking about the next thing, and I was
trying to, you know, make it on my own, even
to my own detriment.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I was going to try to do that, and so
maybe I learned the hard way, and I kind of did.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And once I round my dad's college money, I was like,
oh man, I'm like, you know, a server, and I'm
not making that much money and my as not going
to help me with college anymore.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
I gotta figure this out now.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I ended up figuring it out, but it took
years of you know, just grinding.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
How did you come up with the idea of doing
a podcast?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Because when you started podcasting it was really new.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It was I just I was at a point in
my career where I was tired of being broke and
I was tired of doing stuff.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
For other people.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I was a music video director and it was cool
at first, and it kind of just became draining. I
didn't like, you know, putting all this effort into something
that was for someone else, really, and so I just
had this idea one day, like, I really like these
true crime documentaries.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
How does someone become the person who does that?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Did they just decide one day, Hey, I'm gonna do
a true crime documentary. I was like maybe, And so
I thought maybe I should do that. And I listened
to Cereal because my friend showed it to me, and
I was blown away that I that I, with my
ADHD brain, was so enthralled by an audio show. I
really really truly loved it. I was like, guys, you
(09:11):
got to all check this out. And so I had
them I have maybe I make this this true crime documentary,
this investigation, but I'll make a podcast as a proof
of concepts to maybe get the Hollywood execs to bite
on me. However, this works here, so it's really just
a stepping stone in my head. And then that really
(09:32):
you know, blew up and gained traction. Then it became
halfway through another business, which became my business.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
So that is a lesson for people like you who
say I have a dream.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Now I just kind of figure out the way to
make it work.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh yeah, I did not set out at all to
be I didn't even like understand that you could even
make money with a podcast because.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
There wasn't really a blueprint for that. I didn't know
that all.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so clearly it wasn't like a viable business plan
at that at that time ended up being one, but
on accident.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Right, So how did you get this love for true
crime because the terror Grins did?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It was wrong with me, right, No, that was.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Wrong with you.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
It's like you have this mine where you like puzzles
and you you are trying to solve the puzzle.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So where does this come from?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I think I just had this sort of innate curiosity
that I think a lot of people have just you
know it, like what happened? Like why can't we figure
that out right, And so I'm just looking at Tara
Grinstead's case, which was season one of Up and Vanished.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Just look at the logline of the whole thing. I'm like,
what happened here? Like this is ridiculous? How do we
not know yet?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And it just kind of bothers me a little bit.
I want to make sense of it. I mean, I
guess so much so that I would make a whole
podcast about it and you know, put myself right in
the middle of it. But I've always just kind of
been fascinated by even the people who do messed up things.
Why are they doing that? Because I can't ever fathom
doing that myself. So what makes someone you know, evil
(11:09):
or do this or whatever? Those things kind of pique
my curiosity because I don't understand it really and I
want to get as close to it as I can
to it because it's just mind blowing to me.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Well, the fact that you have millions of people literally
listening to your podcast, what does that.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Tell you that it's working? Okay? That I yeah, that
I could make one more? I guess No, I think
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I just I never imagined there being I didn't know
what the ceiling was for an audience, right I was.
I thought five thousand people was cool because I knew
it was more Facebook friends than I had at the time.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I was like, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was like, you know, it's five thousand people, you know.
But then it became you know, one hundred thousand million millions.
I was like, wow, Like I don't even like really
compute that really, but it's validating and it really you know,
up in Fantasy Season one was very hard for me
to do, probably one of the hardest times in my life,
to be honest Why because I was kind of out
(12:12):
there on an island by myself a little bit, and
I was very aware of the risk was that I
was taking, and it was just unfamiliar territory and it
was something very serious that was living, breathing, changing, and
I didn't have a blueprint to follow, and I didn't
(12:33):
want to misstep or mess up, but also.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Didn't want to be too scared to do anything.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And so honestly, the listeners really kind of made me
feel validated to keep going a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Now. You and I met when you were doing Atlanta Monster.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The surprise for me back then was that even though
you lived in Kannas.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Are you really hadn't heard of the missing and murder?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I really, and I hate that that's even true, but
I really hadn't. And I was like, you know, my
business partner brought it up to me, and I didn't
really know what he was talking about. And I looked
it up and was like, how did I not know
about this? And I kind of thought, I mean, if
I didn't know about it, there's got to be other
people from my generation or from where I came from
(13:17):
who maybe didn't know about it either.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
And that turned out to be true.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
There's others who knew about it but didn't know the
whole story or had not thought about it in years,
and it was maybe left unsolved in some way for them.
And so it felt right to explore this again, and
just as a history lesson.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Even so, let me tell you this new one with
the UFO. That's scary. So what about you? Are you
believe or skeptic?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So before I made the show, I always thought it
was a fun idea, right, I like Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I liked you know encounters, you know et It's.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Just like a fun thing, Like, wouldn't it be cool
if it was sort of my thought line, right, And
as I dug into it and really started talking to people,
I was like, man.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
This is ridiculous, how real it is?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And I was kind of surprised myself, and I went
from sure, maybe to absolutely there's something going on.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Is it everything that we think all the time?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, But I also think that we know nothing and
it's silly for us to think that we know anything.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And that were the only creations.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
That would be a bigger anomaly than there being thousands
of other things out there.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
So how do you come up with the ideas for
your podcast?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I mean they wake you up in the middle of the.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Night, go, oh my god, this actually this idea was
I remember a Christmas break two years ago. I thought, man,
it would be cool if I could make a podcast
about UFOs. Then my first thought was how am I
going to pull this off? I know, the first thing
I was going to say is like, oh no, man,
Like you're that true crime guy and it's like is
(15:01):
he going hop the deep end.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
A little bit here? Right?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And I was like, well, how do I tell this
story in a way that doesn't feel like it's force
fed to you? It's like all the UFO stuff I've
ever watched for the most part growing up is like
fan service stuff. It's for people who believe in it,
and so it makes you feel.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Like, Okay, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Come on, but where's the objective approach about Okay, like
what's this going on?
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Because everyone's I think curious about that, and if you,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Staunchly don't believe at all, I think that you haven't
really looked at the information yet.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
And I just kind of.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Took that approach and kept building from that and really
wanted to have an investigative approach like I do with
any sort of true crime story I'm doing, but just
apply it to something different. And I liked the liberty
of that where it didn't have the same sensitivity as
this other stories that I've been a part of, and
it had this sort of fun element to it, and
(15:58):
I just like to, you know, able to show off
some of my other passions and skills through that and
also really kind of tell a story that I think
needs to be told.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
This is the Monica Pearson Show from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Well,
you know, one of your passions also is music. Are
you still in the band right side?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Of the tree.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I'm not still in the band. Maybe one day we'll
bring the band back together, but I did.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
You don't have time anymore for your music.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's like, once you're like a music artist at all,
you always think about that and you're like, I've made
songs in the recent past with some of my friends,
but not in a serious professional way. I think there'll
be a time where I'm like, yeah, like here's some
stuff I made for fun and just put it out.
But yeah, it's kind of how I got into, like
(16:55):
kind of where I got here. I was doing I
was filming on my own videos on YouTube, and then
I started doing parody videos of rap songs, and I
started making my own rap songs and they were ridiculous
and people liked them. They were funny, and you know,
garnered this big sort of YouTube audience and did that
for several years, met a bunch of cool producers in
(17:17):
Atlanta that I still know today, and eventually it kind
of got burnt out and was started to feel like
a starving artist and decided to focus more on my
filmmaking and try to build a business out of that,
and did that for years, and then you know, got
burnt out on that too, and then I made a podcast,
and you know, it's scary to think back, like, wow,
(17:39):
what if I didn't make a podcast, because you know,
if it didn't work, I was just going to pivot
to the next thing. It's like, okay, whatever that was,
but it's like next. But it just happened to work.
But I had failed a million times before that, though,
I still.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Feel you still fail at what.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I just I don't know. It isn't always feel like
you're doing what do it mean?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Look like okay?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And I like to challenge myself enough to not just
be so settled in how cool this is right now,
because I think that mindset is a slippery slope. Sometimes
I like the challenge of doing better than I did
last time, so all these other things I've learned become
more like autonomous really, and the challenge is fun.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So you've become extremely successful.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
What has it cost you everything?
Speaker 5 (18:35):
I was kidding it's cost me that as a.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Joke, right, But I looked at your eyes and.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I know, right yeah, that there was a moment a
couple of years ago where I looked up and I
was like, how do we get here? And you hear
people say that sometimes and you're like, what do you
even mean? How do you not know how you got here?
But I really felt like like I made up and vanished.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
It was a really big success.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was new to me, and my first thought after
that was, I don't want to just be the up
and vanish guy, and I want to grab the bull
by the horns. So I immediately went and made Atlanta Monster,
huge pivot, bigger risk, and I took it very seriously.
Then I made up in Vanish season two, and then
(19:18):
I made another show Radio Rental and it was after
like all that three years, I kind of looked around.
I just had tunnel vision on, had the blinders on
on purpose.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I was like, where are some of my old friends?
Or you know, why am I so lost?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And so I kind of had that moment where I
had to recalibrate, and that took some time, and that's
a constant you know, look in the mirror reality check
that you just got to do that I still do.
But I was able to come out of that alive,
and I, you know, kind of protect myself from going
down that far again. It's been really hard, but also
(19:57):
I think I'm better at managing it now, and I
kind of like the journey. It's like I used to
be so concerned about getting somewhere, but it's like I
already did things.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
That I thought I would never do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So now I'm just like, well, I want to do
the things that I thought I could definitely not do,
and if I don't, that's fine. But I like the
journey And like, once I accepted that, it became less
stressful a little bit.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So how do you relax.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Just with my friends hanging out, you know, dealing with
true crime stuff and heavy material and you know, a
heartbroken family, victims family.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's very draining and it's a lot. It's heavy.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But thankfully, like the people that I work with are
like some of my best friends, and we can navigate
it because we've learned a lot from each other and
we can sort of it's like our own little adventure
that we're on, you know. And if it wasn't that,
it would be I probably couldn't keep doing it. Why
the name Tenderfoot TV, Well, my dad wanted me to
(21:04):
join Boy Scouts. Wait, he made me join Boy Scouts.
He is a Eagle Scout. Oh, he's he's the middle brother.
He has four other brothers. They all were Eagle Scouts basically,
and so he's like, I want you to join Boy Scouts.
I was like, Dad, I don't want to do that.
It's corny, Like I don't want to do this made
me and made me do it. I wrote my friend
into it. I only made it as far as the
(21:26):
first level, which they don't give out for free, but
it's a complete stuff, which the lowest.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
Rank is Tenderfoot.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And I was trying to think of a cool name
for my company, so I sounded more legit.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
So I was like, hey, from Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta,
which was nothing. It was just me and my apartment.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
But I heard Sarah Kanick say something something about some
radio station. I was like, where am I from? It
just became the name of my company. Yeah, that's the
real story. So for that, I'm like, hey dad, I'm Tenderfoot.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
That's still so your dad cuts you off. What see
think of your success? Now?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
They love it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I think that they always probably saw something in me.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
But even if you're really talented, it's just hard out here.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I know very talented people who just haven't got a
shot at it yet.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I know more people like that than not.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And if there's so much as out of your control,
so to be able to, you know, be successful in
the business side of things too, and be sustainable in
any way as an artist is just an accomplishment on
its own. And I was really concerned that I could
never do it and if I, if I, if I
couldn't do something like this, I would be I would
(22:45):
be probably nothing.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
I would I wouldn't have a lot to show for anything.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
But once I got a taste of, like, hey, I
think I can make this work, I was never ever
going to back down on that because I knew how
scary it was going back that way. So I think
they're definitely proud, and I'm just glad that I was
able to, you know, complete the loop a little bit
and say, hey, like, maybe all that dumb stuff I
was doing not going to the college worked out.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Did you give it back with money?
Speaker 5 (23:14):
No? The E didn't bring that up.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But I'll say this though, which if my dad listens
to this, he knows that we're even because I lived
in Pasty Market, like the flats there for a year
or so, and I was the busiest time of my life,
so I was always gone and my parents had just
sold their house and they asked if they could stay
with me. I was like sure, thinking like how cool
(23:36):
is it that my parents wanted to stay with me.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Then a year goes by it I'm like, guys, you
got a oh.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Right, I can't bring a girl over here. So I
think we're even how for as an adult. I mean,
they had like all their friends over and stuff. I
was happy to have shared like Atlanta with them because
they never really kind of spent time in the city
like that, and they like fell in love with it,
which was cool.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
But I think we're even those writ checks, you know, that.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Was the reverse. Usually it's the kids to go live
with their parents.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
I know, I know, I thought it was really cool.
I was like, no soon, yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
What would our listeners be surprised to learn about you?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think that because of what I do, there's like
a serious nature to it that I take seriously, and
you know, I think that every other time I'm like
pretty like goofy and silly, and it's kind of how
I just even deal with hard stuff. Sometimes I think
people would be maybe taking it back by that a
(24:43):
little bit. But if you know me, you know that
I'm like that, and then you know that like when
I'm getting serious and down to business like I do,
and I will, but like, I don't want to live.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
In that state forever.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I kind of want to just be silly and look
at all the silly things on life too, And like
I liked that sort of mentality as well. I think
people might be surprised that I'm not this super serious
detective kind of guy, because I'm really not.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I just make one, I play one on my podcast.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
But that voice of yours is so distinctive.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I mean, that's like, thank you, but that's I still
don't really compute that either.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
I appreciate that you don't.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I look at someone like you who has that iconic voice,
and I grew up, you know, watching you on TV
and hearing your voice, never thinking that I had anything
broadcast worthy at all. I felt like an imposter doing
that a little bit. I guess people you know, proved
me wrong a little bit, but I never really looked
at it like that.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
So come for me. That means a lot, and I
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, I love your voice.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I love your voice.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You use music in your podcast in a way to
set the scene and then to move from scene to scene.
So music is that just for you to play? You
really think very seriously about.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
What you use.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, that's really kind of my part of my process.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean it's not everyone is like that, which I
get that, but for me, I.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Like setting the tone of this thing.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I want to feel what this feels like. And that's
I really kind of connected to it in that way.
So everything you've ever heard that I was like a
strong part of like any shows that I've hosted, But
at some point I felt that to my core and
then I eventually kind of like, you know, move past
that because.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I can't live in that state. But I like the
music part of it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
It makes me feel connected, and you know, I have
a passion for music, and it's cool to be able
to incorporate that in ways that are cinematic and I
one of my good friends is our composer and we
have a lot of fun making bizarre.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Cues and it's it's cool.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
You know, you really are a musician, you do?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I mean, not really, but I'll take it. But I
think I'm I have that sort of brain. But I've
never been like an instrument guy. I could, you know,
write lyrics, sing, poorly, but also I get the structure
and stuff, so I'm able to, you know, utilize music
(27:21):
that we have and you know, maybe disassemble it and
reassemble it in a way that is not.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
So banging it on your head and more inviting you
to it. Right.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
What scares you?
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Oh man?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I think everything is kind of a little bit scary.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, I mean I think that just there's the unknown
is scary.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And you know, I think everyone wants a little bit
of control in their lives, right, some more than others.
I feel the same way. I think the unknown is
super scary. And I've been in so many uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Where I like this is it or I can't take this.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So many times that I kind of just got over it,
over it a little bit. I still feel like that,
but I know it's not the end of the world,
and so I and I've also learned that I can
be more myself because I think that it's.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You know, I was giving myself all the stress the
whole time, like trying to perform for somebody else.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
But yeah, I think just life is scary. The unknown
is scary.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But you know, all you can do is what you
can do, and that's my mindset and just hope it works.
That's it. But I think the unknown is scary.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well you ever get married again.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I would totally get married again. Definitely, not immediately. Yeah,
at first I was like, I'm never getting married again.
But it's not like that. It's more, you know, I
wanted to like heal from that and move on.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
But if it was the right person, yeah I would.
I would do that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I'm not necessarily seeking that, but if I, you know,
fell in love with that person in that way and
it was that part of our lives.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
Absolutely, But aren't.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
You really truly married to Tinderfoot and your possible exactly?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So I don't want to and I know that I
and I also know that I won't be like this forever.
There'll be there'll be a time where I can step
back a little bit more to do those.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But I don't want to, you know, over commit and
bring in somebody that I that I I end up
letting down because I have to take care of this
right now. Because I'm also looking out for my livelihood.
I also want to, like, I want this just to work.
I want I want to win, so I can. You know,
why is my sister, you know, asking money for school supplies?
Speaker 6 (29:49):
Like?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
Screwed that right?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
It's like, I want to be able to help and
create and not think about the bill's money.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Part, because that's that part sucks.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
You know, there's still a lot of kid in you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Oh yeah, I'm a young soul like truly, but yeah,
I'll think I can change that. So if I if
I didn't, if I wasn't successful artist anyway, I'd be
in big trouble.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So it would be pain.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Ibi Payne, thank you so much for sharing this time
with me. You don't know how much this means to me.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
This show was produced by Ryan Horn, Tyson Horn, and
Mere Davis. Audio recording and podcast production by Shane Beckler.
Our executive producer is Samantha Stamler. Additional production provided by
Shia Everett, Kamal McAllister, Jason Lillard, and Kamanie Colmer. Special
thanks to AJC Editor in Chief Leroy Chapman and AJC
(30:47):
President and Publisher Andrew Moose. New episodes of The Monica
Pearson Show drop every Tuesday, so be sure to follow
me on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
And check out the videos on AJC dot com.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Talking to Death is a production of tenorfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For tenorfoot TV,
executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup
(31:28):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover
art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website
(31:49):
Talking to Death podcast dot com.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus
dot com
Host
Payne Lindsey
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