June 28, 2024 • 66 mins
Shane Pittman is a Paranormal Investigator and producer of the Netflix series "28 Days Haunted" and "The Holzer Files" on the Travel Channel. With a keen eye for storytelling and a passion for the unexplained, Shane has brought chilling and compelling content to audiences, capturing the eerie and often unexplainable phenomena encountered by investigators. Shane's dedication to producing high-quality, engaging shows has made him a respected figure in his field. His work showcases his ability to blend suspense, intrigue, and authentic paranormal experiences, making his productions a must-watch for enthusiasts of the supernatural.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to Talking to Death. This week, we have
a very fun guest for you. He is a paranormal investigator.
If you're into ghosts and spirits in the afterlife, then
you're going to love this next guest. His name is
Shane Pittman, best known for his work on Netflix's series
twenty eight Days Haunted, as well as The Holzer Files
(00:42):
on Travel Channel. Shane has a passion for the unexplained,
and he brings chilling and compelling content audiences around the world.
He's dedicated to his life and career to capturing the
unexplainable phenomena that surround us every day. He's a highly
respected member of his field and has some really fun
stories to tell, and he and Paine talk about some
(01:02):
really creepy encounters that they both had. They talk about
ghosts and aliens and everything in between. So let's jump
into it. This week's guest, Shane Pittman, Well.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thanks for coming to me, man, Hey, thank you, thank
you for having me. Man. I appreciate it. Traffic wasn't
too bad. No, it wasn't bad at all. It wasn't bad.
So tell me. I just want to ask you, point blank,
to be honest, are ghosts real?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
That is a very very interesting question. I would say yes.
You would say yes. I would say yes, But I
would say as far as like defining what ghosts and
spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay,
So I know that we're communicating with someone or something,
(01:59):
but I don't really know what it is. I just
know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So
in my opinion, the how I labeled ghosts right now
is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I would say ghosts are real. Okay, So what
do you think it is? You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I have a lot of theories on that, Like it
could be interdimensional, it could be.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Ourselves.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Like there's this interesting story okay, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, this is it now getting weird? Yeah? Fast?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, So there's this interesting story from a guy he
tells where he was a young kid and he walked
into his kitchen to get a sandwich, peanut butter sandwich,
and he was like five or six years old. He
walks in and he sees this hooded figure opening up
(02:51):
his his uh, refrigerator, and it freaked him the hell
out and he ran out of there scared to death.
Fast forward though he's about in his early twenties. He's
in the same house. He's visiting his parents, and he
runs down to get a snack, which a peanut butter sandwich,
(03:13):
and he runs down and he opens the refrigerator. He's
got a hoodie on, and he sees a small figure
in the doorway and at first he's like, this is strange,
it doesn't make any sense. But it freaked him out again.
But then he remembered when he was six years old,
he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot
(03:34):
that he was standing to go get a snack and
when he opened the refrigerator. And he's thinking that maybe
he saw a version of himself in the future. So
maybe we're haunting ourselves.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I know. It's kind of a confusing thing. So he
saw a ghost. Essentially, two times, and like it potentially
actualized that event right where, and then the second time
he was seeing the younger self, who was probably spooked
the first time that yeah, okay, now it's okay. How
do you make sense of that? I mean, we're just
making it up here, We're just speculating, But yeah, what
(04:10):
does that mean to you? Is there some sort of
time playing that we don't understand? Is an imprint? I believe.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I believe it is an imprint. I do believe that
it's a time thing too, because time is man made
as far as.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
How we do it anyway. I mean, the concept of
the concept the ticking watch, right, that's just a measurement essentially,
right right.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Right, So we kind of come up as a man
made construct. And I believe that we are more powerful
than we kind of give ourselves credit for. I use
this analogy all the time that you know, I can
walk into a room after a couple had been done
fighting and they're not saying a word. I can walk in,
(04:57):
but you can feel the tension from that argument even
though they don't say anything to you at all.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Are you actually feeling something or are you observing them
being different? Well? I think it's a.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
It's a mixture of both, because I've had this happen
more than one time, where you walk in there off
doing their own thing, but you can feel that something's
not right. You can feel like an energy or something right.
You can feel like a shift in the air or whatever.
And you know how sometimes you're walking down a dark
alleyway or whatever and you feel you just feel like
(05:33):
something's off. You feel like you usually deserve to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But yeah, it's the same, not just casually every Tuesday, right, right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But you know, if you're walking in certain places, you
know that.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You're on high alert.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's something within you that is telling you, hey, be careful.
It's that gut instinct. And I think that that has
something to do with it. I think that we have
more influence over certain hauntings then we, you know, we
may realize. So a lot of people say, oh, this
place is haunted or whatever, And I think a lot
(06:10):
of times it has to do with living more than
what we perceive as the dead.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, living is in the observer of it, or.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
The observers sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place,
that are living there. I think sometimes it has to
do with maybe the environment with things that are going on,
stress levels and whatever that energy is admitting at the
time could play a factor in some of these strange
and unusual things that's going on in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Okay, So instead of just being the Hollywood version of
you know, it's your dead great grandpa, it's maybe your
own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in
some sort of way. Absolutely, it's observable absolutely others even right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
A lot of people. You know, I give this analogy again.
You know, there's been since the dawn of time probably
what millions billions of people that have passed from this
physical plane, and we confine them to structures. So often
we'll say this place is this place is haunted, this
(07:21):
place over here is haunted. But I feel that, you know,
if that's true, we pass on in some a fraction
of us stay, then we're they're everywhere, or a piece
of that person that was left behind is everywhere, so
we can encounter them, you know, daily.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I feel like there's this sort of Hollywood image of
or I guess Hollywood portrayal of good and evil. So
frequently when it comes to hauntings and ghosts, it's always
usually portrayed as a good or evil presence, and I
feel like that's not very scientific, But I mean that
(08:05):
being said, you know, you hear stories about stuff that
feels darker or scarier in that way. But do you
perceive those darker instances as an evil presence or is
it just how we're perceiving it. I've just thought before,
(08:25):
what if something doesn't know where it is, or like
if it's you know, trapped in a place and it's
like stuck, or maybe it's not even it's like the
remnants of what it once was and it doesn't even
know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrated.
I'd be banging walls and shit too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right, well, and you know, we always fear what we
don't understand too, So a lot of people whenever they
have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear.
It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee
the area because you don't understand what's going on on.
That doesn't mean it's evil, that doesn't mean it's necessarily
(09:04):
bad to your point, you know, I feel like if
there is an instance where you do stay here, for
whatever reason, after you die, then if you were an
asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole
you stay in the afterlife. I mean, think about it
like your true essence of who you are. I mean,
(09:25):
if you're a good person in life, it would make
sense that you would be a good person. If you
stay behind in some sort of a piece of you
left or stayed behind, then you would be still a
good person. But again, if you were an asshole, you'll
be an asshole again.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You know, an asshole ghost. Yeah, so I want you
to tell me just the first one that comes to
your head. What is a time that you have been
the most scared or or is there one or you
just like totally immune to ghosts. Tickle on the back
of your neck these days? Oh no.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So if anybody's watched The Holser Files, which I was
a part of for two seasons, you know, I'm a
very skittish guy, and I don't hide it. I'll jump
if I get scared.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's just one of those things. I think.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
One of the scariest times for me was whenever I
was in Cleveland, Ohio and we were investigating this train
yard and there were instances of a lot of weird
things going on. They had what they call a death car,
which why did we investigate this place, I don't know.
But they had this place called the death car where
(10:37):
this particular train car was involved in a really bad
accident and essentially the people that were inside the train
car got steamed alive because there was a malfunction.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, it's horrible, horrible jesu. Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
But there was this other place in the train yard
called the pit, and of course they send me there because.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You know there'll be some good foot Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So it's like, uh, it's underneath this this train car
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And I go under there and there's one way in,
one way.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Out, and I couldn't just walk in. I had to
crawl in because I think it's maybe two and a
half three feet high. And I'm crawling in there, and
for about four hours I'm in there. At this point,
nothing really is going on.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Four hours.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Oh yeah, man, you have to or anything. Oh yeah,
you have to hold it. Yeah, you just have to
hold it waiting.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
For a ghost. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Well, I mean, guys, well you busy, well, you know,
you you do filming and stuff too. Sometimes, especially in
the paranormal genre of you have to wait sometimes hours
before for a light to flicker, yeah, or footsteps or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So here I was.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I was under the train car. It was about four
four and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Did you get used to it? At that point?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I got used to it. I was getting bored and
I was getting frustrated it. It became less scary play
for a moment, right I was like, I was like, man,
there's oil, there's dirt.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's not a cool environment to be in, and it
kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And while I'm thinking all of this, I start hearing
footsteps underneath the train car. And from the viewer's perspective,
though they're seeing, you know, it's bright, the IR light
is bright, but underneath I could barely see anything. It's
dark as hell under there. And so I'm trying to
(12:34):
figure out where's where are these footsteps coming from? And
how can there be footsteps because I couldn't even walk in,
I had to crawl in. But I'm literally hearing footsteps
coming up to me. So I turned my camera around
and I'm looking and I don't see anything at all.
And then there's pebbles or rocks or something like that,
(12:57):
that are being thrown at me from underneath again, and
I can't pinpoint where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Like an actual physical, physical pebble.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, I'm hearing them. I'm hearing them, but I don't
actually feel them hitting me, but I'm I'm hearing them
being thrown. And at this point, I'm like, Okay, it's
coming from the direction I need to get out of
and I don't. I'm frozen. I don't want to I
don't know what to do, Like I don't want to
go in the direction where they.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't know what this. Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That's going on, and I turn my camera and as
soon as I do, I'm looking in that direction and
I feel like a like a tug on my leg,
like something grabbing me. And so that's when I freak
out and I'm like, oh hell, and I then I
just I decide to just get out of there. But
later on, whenever I'm reviewing the footage, when I turn
(13:58):
the camera, you see like a hand come into frame,
like almost like coming from the from the left side.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like an actual hand, like a shadow not your hand.
It's a shadow hand, not my hand, someone else, something
else's hands, and.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Shadow, a shadow of a hand like coming at the
same time I was grabbed, and you're like, talk about
you talk about being probably the most freaked out I've
ever been.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And to this day, the.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
People that watched The Holter Files and said that's their
favorite episode because they got to see me freaked out
and scared. But that was the creepiest. That's probably the
creepiest time that I've ever had.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that wasn't some TV TV show shit. That was
some for real No, that was for real.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well, see, that was one thing about me signing on
to do The Holzer Files, As I said, Look, I
know it's a TV show. I know we got to
have a good story. I know all of this has
to go on, but I really want it to be
as genuine as possible because I do this outside of
the TV world. I've been interested in the stuff since
(15:02):
I was six, So I don't want my reputation tarness.
I'm already looked at as crazy for believing in for
something other than myself, right, I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Add to that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So I want the footage, I want the audio. I
want to review it before I give it to the
editors and stuff, so they would hand off a drive
to me. Before I would even leave set the investigation time,
they would hand me a drive so I could review
it myself right on the spot, which is unheard of.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
A lot of times. They don't usually, you know, roll
like the yeah time.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So I'm very thankful to have been a part of
a show like that. But yeah, they handed off to me,
and and all the footage that we found that is
in the show, I found it and gave them the
time stamps. So yeah, it's no TV shit at all.
(16:03):
It was real and I knew it. I mean, and
a lot of people ask me, oh, yeah, this is
just TV stuff, this is whatever. But then I asked them,
It's like, do you see how many times I have
basically shipped myself and looked horrible? Do you really think
that I want everybody to perceive me that way? No,
(16:24):
But at the same time, I want to show you
genuine you know, how you would react at home. This
is how I react, and this is just me, you know,
so or you're just.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
A really good actor.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
No, No, if anybody knows me I'm not there, that would.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Be acting way different, be way cooler, right, I would
be awesome, would scream like that you know, it's crazy too.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
It like I I tried for the first couple of
episodes that we filmed, tried to be the stoic Shane.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You know. Then you were like fuck this.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And then after a while I was like, I can't
hide this anymore. I look awkward. This isn't this isn't normal.
I can't hide it wasn't the plan.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You were trying to go in all brave. Yeah. I
was trying to go in brave and not scared of anything, right.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I tried to do that, and then and the producers
and stuff were like, Shane, like, we've seen some of
your work.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
We know this isn't you. Just be you.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Dave Schrader, which is another really awesome guy in the field,
he took me under his wing and he's like, Shane,
you know, if you're scared, be scared, react, that's you.
Be you, because that's why they brought you on to
begin with, So be yourself. And from that advice, I
was like, Okay, fine, yeah, people are going to see
(17:42):
me right and and all my glory here we go. Yeah,
And from there that it was all she wrote.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I had a lot of spooky moments. I mean, I
understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of
paranormal stuff, right. I think that for ages we've been
fascinated by things that we don't understand, and there's a
lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in
(18:11):
the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what
any of it means or if it's you know, something
spiritual or scientific. I lean more to the scientific side
of it. But how do you get wrapped into it
in a way where you can be a professional investigator
of it? Right? Like? Clearly you as a kid found
(18:32):
interest in this at some point, right, what was it
that kind of made it more than just curiosity? Like?
How did it go from just being curious to I
do this? I guess you could say professionally. Literally, Yeah,
that's a big jump then, yeah, which is kind of
your kid sells probably like hell yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Right, right, That's a very good question, and I'll try
to condense it as much as possible. So my first
experience was when I was six years old and very profound.
I went to my mother about it and it was
a very impactful thing for me and during that time
in my life. Without going into much detail, there was
(19:15):
a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff
in my life. And it was within the moments where
I was wanting to give up and you know, call
it quits, when I would have these weird, strange, unusual
moments that would kind of snap me back and say, Okay,
there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's
(19:37):
more beyond it that you can't understand. So from the
early age, once I got into my teenage years, I
started researching and reading all the books Harry Price, Hans Holzer,
all of the books based on the experiences that I
was having at the.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Time, which were what exactly well I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
For instance, when I was twelve years old, I had
I was in my room and the closet door was
kind of slightly open, and we had one of those
old houses where the carpet was higher, so the doors
would always scrape to the top of the carpet. It
would leave like a mark on there. And it was
(20:24):
slightly open, and I was going to sleep. About five
minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings,
so I was thinking, Okay, somebody's playing a trick on me.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So I go open the closet door. Nothing was in there,
so it was like, this is.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Weird, and me, being the smart Southern man that I am,
I leave it open again and I go lay back down.
Probably a little time happens and it slams again. This
time I'm freaked out. I run to my parents' room,
which is across the hall, and they're like, Shane, you're
(21:04):
just you're trying to stay up. Go to bed right,
We're tired when we have work in the morn. So
they take me back to bed and for whatever reason,
that closet doors open again and it slams for a
third time. After they leave the room, this time they.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Run into my room.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And I grew up in a religious household, so my
mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me, doing
whatever she can just just to like whatever's going on,
it needs to stop now. And I ended up sleeping
in their room that night. It was things like that.
It was I would have weird visions or dreams, I
(21:48):
guess you can call it. Where there would be people
that would walk up to my bedside and some of
them would look like they're terrified. Some would say where
am I at?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't
know where the stuff? They were saying at the edge
of your bed, like they didn't know where they were
literally right, like where they weren't like haunting you, They're
like what it is?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's like, help me, where am I at? What's what's
so they look like us?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That scares me kind of they look like us that
they don't know where they are right more than them
knowing where they are and who you are right.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And at that time, it's like, Okay, am I is
this just my subconsciousness just because I'm going through a
lot of crap.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Right, Yeah, yeah, just stress imagining these things, right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
But then I would have other experiences like the door
slamming and stuff, things that I knew even at a
young age. Okay, it can't be a draft in my
room because the carpet. They're like, it's hard for me
to push the door closers stuff too, Right, So there's
compounding evidence. And even to this day, how I kind
(22:53):
of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything
and say, you know, if I hear footsteps, I don't say,
oh my god, that's a ghost or you know, I
look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading
to something that I would assume would be more paranormal nature.
Then I will take a look at it and kind
(23:13):
of try to explore it further. But just like footsteps
or an old house settling, which can cause sounds of
what it would sound like wood creaking or whatever, right,
all that stuff is, you know, I think compounding evidence
is when we have to take a look at it
(23:34):
and you know, try to research further into what or
who we're communicating.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
With these people. I'm to have this image in my
head now, these people on the edge of your bed,
wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment
that those were definitely goes, And how would you rationalize that.
What are they doing there? I don't know. Like I said,
that's your best theory. If you were to make one up, I.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Would say that they're If they are real, I would
say that they are in some transitional period and maybe
a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason,
they're stuck.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
But you were seeing full people though, right, They didn't
look like a fragment of something. They were an actual
full embodiment, like where they wearing clothes and stuff. I
mean yeah, yeah, which is which is they seem like
they're from this time period? Could you even sell them?
Some of them, yes, some of them no? Do you like?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I remember there was this one lady who looked happy
and she was just walking by, but she was like
in a Victorian style dress, like just a dress, corset,
all that stuff, hair up in a bun.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
It was strange.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And again, like I said, I would think, Okay, maybe
I'm just dreaming or but this was more than one
occurrence and more than one house that I was in,
sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great,
but it was these moments where it's like, Okay, if
this is real, and not even saying it is for certain,
(25:20):
but if it's real, I want to find out more
about it. So the more that I researched and stuff,
the more I saw that there was many other people
that were having similar experiences and I just wanted to
know more. But then the corporate world happened, and so
my studying all that stuff came to a halt because
(25:41):
corporate world happened and I had to make a living.
There wasn't some Ghostbusters school around, No, I wish because
I may have sign me up. Yeah, But you know,
I started a family, had my wife and my kids
and stuff, and I had to provide for them. So
(26:03):
corporate world happened.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I was an executive in a company, worked my way
up and I was over hundreds of employees.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But I was miserable.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It was a soul draining existence.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I hated it. Sounds bad, I hated it.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And I was in a hotel room one night in Coleman, Alabama,
and I just rewind.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
A couple of weeks prior, I had a buddy of mine,
a producer buddy of mine, saying, look, there's this gig,
this TV gig that I think you'd be good for.
You kind of fit the part of what they're looking for.
Why don't you send in your headshot and all that
stuff and see what happens. And I've been through all
of that before, and it's like, I don't really want
(26:49):
to do that. I'm good with my job, I'm making money,
it's fine. But because I was so miserable, I was like, Okay,
I'll just send it in. It only takes me a second.
Sure I do that, and fast forward. I'm in my
hotel room in Coleman, Alabama, and I'm in a really
low spot because I was working six days a week.
(27:09):
I would come home on Sunday and I sleep all
of Sunday away. So because I was so exhausted, I
wasn't seeing my family, was missing first steps, birthdays, holidays,
and I was just miserable. So I was in that
hotel room just crying out to whoever or whatever would listen.
(27:29):
It's like, look, I need help, I need to change.
I can't keep doing this. Within thirty minutes, I look down,
there's a phone call from la unknown caller. I pick
it up and it's the casting director for Holzer Files.
And that kind of led me into So it's almost
like a fate.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Type thing, like it was something that you're, Okay, I
should do this.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
It's something that just kind of threw me into to
doing it professionally, and it was something I love of
mine that already had, so it was like a shoe in.
But you know, that whole process too was scary because
I was leaving a job that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Was paying very well and my wife at a risk. Right,
It wasn't just some easy My life's going to be
so much better now caah move.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And people think, you know reality TV, Oh man, you're
probably rolling in the dough. That's not the case at all.
People don't really understand how all of that is.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Like, guys, do you know the budget for these shows? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, it was like a promotional type thing. It was
more of I was taking a pay cut of.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Course, Yeah, to do something that you wanted to do
versus I mean something that was I guess more financially stable,
right right.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So you know that's why I credit my wife a
lot to all of this, because she said, look, you
love this, this is a passion of yours. This is
something you've been wanting to do as far as searching
and investigating this stuff. So if you want to do it,
do it.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So yeah, it was scary time, man, because I bet
because taking that leap is taking that leap is hard.
I mean most people, I feel like, go through life
not ever taking that leap. I might say most, but
a lot of people do, right, Well, they play, they
play into what's safe, right, which which is not which
also that's.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Okay, right, but if you're someone who is sitting there
who's on the edge of doing it, just do it
for sure, just for sure, and whatever that even is
for sure, you know, they just commit a crime or something.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
But you know what I mean, right, Well, there's so
many people too like they play it safe because they
have a family they had to take care of. And
that's not knocking them at all. I completely understand that.
But yeah, if you have an opportunity as something that
and it's doing something you love to do, just just
do it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So when you look back in hindsight any regrets here, No,
does it almost scare you to think about if you
didn't take that risk. It scares me a lot, right
because how close you were to not doing right And
because me sometimes I'm like, holy shit, I almost didn't
do this right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Well, you know, and because I went through life and
I had some mental health things going on, because of
things that have happened in my life. Yeah, and I
always wonder, well, if I didn't take a step doing
something I love, where would.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I be at? Would I still be here?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And that's just being completely honest, because I'd gone through
a lot of really traumatic times in my life. So
now fast forward to this time. Whenever I'm at events
and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people
not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but
(30:51):
about mental health. And like I've been there, I took
a leap, you know. If I didn't, if all of
these things didn't play out like they were supposed to,
I wouldn't up here talking to you right now.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I wouldn't be able to do what I love.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So I get to encourage other people that may be
in my same shoes at that time and be able
to give them some hope. And that's something that is
much more rewarding to me than a TV show or
anything else.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Of course. Yeah, that human connection is priceless, right, And
because you've been that guy on the other end, and
you may be on the other end again, or I
might and it's the other way around, right.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Right, And believe it or not, Man, there's so many
people that come to my events that they come to
escape their own personal hell and their life, right, and
this is something that they love. But at the same
time they come to kind of escape that just the
everyday life of what they're going through and just.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Sort of live in this world for a moment.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Live in the world and get to explore something beyond.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That doesn't have the same rules and constraints. Maybe is
that how you kind of perceive it.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Or yep, that and it shows them kind of like
what I was thinking when I was younger, is like,
there's more beyond this life that I'm living.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
There's more beyond that.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And people get to come to these events and share
and experiences of others that maybe going through similar things
that they're going through, and it's just a time of
fellowship and connection.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Again more important than TV, more important than anything else.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And I think, I guess objectively speaking, it would be
a sadder reality if there was nothing else, right, you know,
not even from a religious standpoint, just if this was it.
It's just us here on this big rock. There's nothing
else out there, there's no other dimensions or anything. It's
just we have really good imaginations and you know, we're
(32:51):
just born up our minds at this point.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, it would be extremely sad, right, that's true, Solame,
It would.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Be boring blame than it would be sad. Yeah, it's
like that's stupid.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Really right, And you know, I think a lot a
lot of times I'd be thinking, too, well, am I
just hoping for something more?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I think there's that's part of it. I mean, I
think that life would be more interesting if there was more.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, And I think sometimes am I just do
I have an overactive imagination. But then, just to give
you a little example, these are things that kind of
snapped me out of that and say, no, there's more.
I was in h Waverley Hills Sanitarium, which is in Kentucky.
(33:40):
It is considered one of the one of the most
haunted places in America. That's debatable, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I was there. The way I'm not going. I was there.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You need to go we need to go together first
or second, third out there. We need to go together.
It'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
No, okay.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So anyway, I was doing an event there and I
had a group of fifteen twenty people. Right, this is
a or you just well, you're you're leading like a
ghost hunt.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
You're leading like a little guys like come to the
spooky place, and you're yeah, please tell me you actually
get scared in here as the guy who is I
guess not putting it on an act in this oh
sat and.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
People see people see uh leading up to you'll see Okay.
So I have the group and I'm like, okay, And
what I like to do is get everybody quiet, because
when you have larger groups and stuff, it's kind of
hard to do anything because everybody's talking. Yeah, so I'm
trying to get the group together to shut up yep, yep,
(34:40):
well and kinder words. Yeah, And I look down the hall,
I see this man and he's kind of limping and
he's kind of falling behind, and I'm like, excuse me, sir,
can you please join us, you know, so we can
get started. And as soon as I say that, I
kid you not. You see the front of him walking
(35:02):
towards right. The only way I can describe it is
he morphs and you see the back of his head
and he's walking the opposite direction. It's like he did
a pivot. It's like he did an about face. But
you didn't see the about face. You just see him.
You see the back of his head instead. What's very
interesting about this, though, pain.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
My whole group saw it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Okay, so it's not just me my perception. The entire
group saw this exact same thing. I sent two of
the guys that were there running because I stayed with
the group.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Of course, my.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Jumpy ass is not going to run after something like that.
I may be the pro, but I'm not going to run.
I'm going to send somebody. Yeah, I'm going to send somebody.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So I sent two guys to go, and this guy
turns a corner. Whatever we saw, this shadow turns a
corner and heads towards the atrium, the little chapel in
the area, and they go in there and there's nobody.
Nobody in the chapel at all. We have We had
(36:11):
guards that are in watching over the exits so that
way people can't go in or go out and join
another group prematurely. We try to keep everybody together. They're like,
we didn't see anybody come in.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Or go out.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But the fact that my entire group saw this saw
that he didn't just turn around just saw. They saw
him walking forward, then saw him walking backwards full on
shadow figure man, and there was no trace of anybody.
That's what snaps me back. It's like, Okay, there's more
that we don't understand. We like to label it ghosts
(36:50):
and spirits. I don't like to say ghosts and spirits
as much anymore. I just know that we're talking to something,
whoever or whatever it is. I don't know what it is,
and it's kind of you know, I don't know how
to label it other than I know it's unexplainable. It's
something as of right now, it's paranormal nature. It's outside
(37:11):
of that box of scientific understanding.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Anyway. Why is it that ghosts are so hard to
capture on video and pictures? I mean there has to
be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later,
or they're just really good at ducking it somehow, right,
(37:36):
or is it not? Like I mean, just if you
wanted to go there. Is it something that the human
eye can only perceive a certain way that isn't really
able to be captured like that? I don't know, Like,
do you have a thought on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, So again on Holzer files, we've shown that we
have captured some stuff. I think it is hand hand. Uh,
there was a mist. It was Howard's lodge.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I believe it is. There was a mist going.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Upstairs, some really interesting stuff that it's kind of hard for.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
The anomalies that were not right.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
It's hard for me to to pinpoint what it is.
And I think that it has something to do with,
you know, our perception of what we can see what
our eyes can physically see. And that's why I r
can you know, it can capture things and it can
see in a different scope than what our human I
(38:35):
could see. I think it could be all frequency related.
I think that may have something to do with it,
that they may be showing up, but it's it's certain frequencies,
certain wavelengths, even cameras less physical well, even our technology
that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe
they can capture that necessarily.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I think even with.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
EVP electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something
on a recorder a voice that you know was not
yours or anybody else's. It's an interesting theory. There's this guy,
Bill Chapple that makes all of this tech and stuff,
and he will tell you firsthand.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
That he doesn't believe in ghosts.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He just believes that there's some strange shit going on,
and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told
me something that was really interesting about EVP. He's like,
you know, Shane, right now that I have this this
microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part
(39:42):
of a room, and I can play music in that
frequency and it can sound like the music is coming
from over there, but really it's coming from this device
I have in my hand. But I can make the
sound go wherever I want it to go. What and
that's just what it's all I want. It's a mono
(40:02):
I have to ask him, it's mono something microphone, but
it's a.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Laser crazy, it's actually tricking your brain or is it?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
And he really, well he can point it to certain
to certain like if.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
There's exactly is he is still like audibly coming from
this device in his hand. So yeah, So it's electromagnetic pinginge,
pinging somewhere, eating this perception that it's not coming.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
From and in frequency that the human ear can hear. So like,
if there's a group of people right sitting in an audience,
he can point this microphone to the right half of
the audience and only the right half can hear what's
coming through and the other half would be like, I'm
not hearing anything, right. So if there's things like that,
(40:52):
I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency,
in regards to maybe our visual spectrum of what we
can see that that is unexplained, that maybe there's more
that if our eyes could see in that scope, we'd
be seeing a hell of a lot more, you know.
So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't
capture is maybe we don't maybe we haven't caught up
(41:12):
to the technology to be able to capture something like that,
you know. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in
certain times that we're able to see anomalies and we're
able to see things, you know, like there's different dream
cycles and sleep cycles and stuff, right, and in those
(41:33):
cycles you can there's it's best for like hypnosis and
things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states,
we're able to see and understand more. It's the same
stuff with people who go through PTSD, and they'll claim
(41:56):
all the time they see all kinds of things, and
we say, yeah, what could just be because there's a
stress disorder. It's all the stuff, and we'll label it
as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're
not really seeing the things that they're seeing.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Sometimes, well, either way, it's still a reality to them,
exactly exactly. It's a very coming right where it's like
if it's real to you, is it real? What's real? Right?
We have the booth say it's real.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Well, and here's the thing too, like, uh, you know
psychics and mediums, right, So they say that they can
hear people speaking to them that nobody else can hear.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
If you pay them money.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Well, I've worked with I've worked with some good ones. Now,
I've worked with some good ones. Okay, I will tell
you that I've worked with some good ones. And I'm
in the Bible belt man, So I was told that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
They were all demonic. These anyway, these fortune tellers are
really yeah, the devil, right.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
But you know they say that they can speak to
people and they can hear different voices and things like that.
But then we'll label someone else that says that schizophrenic
right there. So there's a fine line. Yeah, there's a
fine line.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That are you crazy? Are you not? Are you seeing
the things? Are you hearing the things that? Are you
making it look polished enough? You have mediums, don't you know?
It is a wild thing. Like no, I get it.
I hear voices. That's usually not a good thing, right,
But is that not the same thing that they're saying, right?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
That's the thing that called number for that, right. But
there's a fine line. But then you know, there's there's
some cases I've worked on or research some true crime
cases where they would call in mediums legitimately and sometimes
sometimes they would pinpoint or they would give some instances
where it would be a good lead.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
In a lot of In a lot of instances they
have done that. So clearly they're like, we're running at
op since here. We'll try anything.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Even the government, real government with remote viewing and things
like that, they had, they had a whole program catered
to all of that. So I think there's something to it.
But to your credit, like, there's a lot out there
that you know aren't legitimate, and there's I believe there
are a handful that really are and that you we
(44:23):
need to listen to what they say before we just
discard because we.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Could be missing out on advancements. Yeah, if this coming
out waste more than us and we're just over here,
you know, shrugging it off right.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Well, you got to think, for the longest time, people
thought the Earth was flat, and they thought anybody that
gave any other theory they thought were it is.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
If you're still a flat earther, is that are you?
Are you really a flat earther?
Speaker 4 (44:52):
If you're still a core flat earther, Are you just
you just being anti yeah right, I think you're being
a lily yeah, flat right, I mean like you're just
being a rebel.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And it's like to what end though, right, Like if
the Earth is flat, then why is it? What's the
point of the conspiracy? Like why why did we convince
you that it wasn't flat? Yeah? Like who cares if
it was flat or not? This doesn't make sense to me,
Like to what end?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
And to all the flat earthers that they're listening right now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
One of you just tune out?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah no no, But you know, people thought they were
crazy at one point, you know, and or well they were,
and then people who thought that sorry I said that,
all right, so people who flatter No, no, no, not
at all. People who thought people who entertained ideas that hey,
the Earth isn't flat. Yeah, everybody who thought the Earth
(45:51):
was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But
if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have
the advancements we have now. I screwed that all the
hell in back.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
It sounds like you're more on the flat side.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
But that's The thing is like, at one point in time,
people thought something was a certain way, but if they
didn't listen to to other theories and things like that,
then we would still be stuck in that right, right.
We didn't think if we didn't challenge that right.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Right, It's so easy to be in the moment and
think that we've learned everything, right. I think that's very
naive and closed minded to think that way. But I
totally get how even society makes it easier to think that.
But we are literally learning shit every single day and
we'll never stop. We'll never stop. People will ever stop.
You don't stop, period.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
And this is why I love what I do so much.
A lot of a lot of people look at it
and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe
in all this stuff?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
But I think the search for something is far more
rewarding to me than actually finding the ant to all
of this stuff. I think the search and building the
connections along the way is far more valuable to me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Just that pursuit and that journey that you go on
is kind of just your life story now.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Because as trial and error, you're you're thinking, Okay, is
this real?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Is this not, and you.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Entertain different theories and different things and come up with
your own conclusions. I mean, I think that is what
life is all about, really, is working out our own
life journey and learning along the way.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
You had mentioned before we met that there was a
missing person's case you wanted to talk about it. Yeah,
piqued my interests. What is this case? What is it?
Speaker 3 (47:49):
So it's the case of Diana Rojas. So and the
reason why this is so close to my heart is
because she was good.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Friends with my mom.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
We were in Forderwin, California, and they were a part
of what they call PwC, which Protestant Women of the Chapel.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
So it was a Bible study.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Like I said, I grew up in a religious household,
and she was a really sweet lady. And while we
were there we would have get togethers and cookouts and
stuff like that. And then we kind of lost touch
because as military families do, that's what happens is you
(48:32):
kind of move on and do your own thing. My
mother calls me one day and she's like, hey, you
remember Diana Rojas It was like yeah, she said, well
she's been missing and she'd been out of touch with
her for some years. She's like she's been missing for
a while, since two thousand and In fact, her the
(48:52):
twenty third anniversary is in a few days. Actually, she's
been missing since October twentieth, two thousand and The reason
why I find it odd is she had a two
year old daughter at the time, and anybody that knew
Diana knew that she would never leave her daughter at all.
(49:14):
So just to talk about it just a little bit.
Leading up to this, her and her husband, they were
going through a divorce. His name is America. She had
a restraining order against him for stalking and for and
for violence and abuse, and so that's two strikes right there, right.
(49:35):
So they were going through this divorce at the time,
and a part of the court ordered like living arrangements
and stuff, America paid for two apartments in this apartment complex.
So Diana lived in one apartment and he would live
with his sister and daughter whenever he was on leave.
(50:02):
So one night there was a court ordered drop off,
she had to drop off her daughter to him, so
she did, and she had a date with her boyfriend,
which was David Howard, and they were in the apartment.
Twelve fifteen, twelve thirty in the morning on October twentieth,
(50:22):
David Howard leaves and he says he closed the door
behind him and locks it, and she's asleep on the sofa.
Diana is supposedly October twentieth. Nine am comes around and
David Howard is at church, of course, because he was
the pastor's son, so that's where she worked at the time.
(50:43):
It's called the nesting place, and he calls and there's
no answer, so they start freaking out where is she.
They go to the apartment and they don't find her,
but they find a couple of droplets her blood on
the sofa, and what was really weird about that is
(51:05):
there was a bandana on the sofa too that seemed
to be soaked in What they say is urine. What
the police say, urine, Yeah, okay, which is really odd.
And her ninety two black Nissan pickup truck was also missing.
So they did all this searches and stuff, and nothing
(51:26):
came up. David Howard, the boyfriend, and America Rojas.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Were interviewed and they were.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
Suspected at the time, but they both had alibis. America
said that he was with his daughter and sister in
the apartment and so they guess and for that at
the time, at the time, I say, okay. So the
police later on said that there was inconsistencies. They couldn't
(51:53):
validate whether or not the alibi and matched up or not.
David Howard he had a solid al I don't remember
what his alibi was. But years go by, and what
is really frustrating for me is that ninety two pickup.
There's no paper trail, you know how vehicles normally have
(52:16):
the paper trails and all that. There's no sign of
this truck at all.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Like it's never come up again to your knowledge at all.
Like it's like it's just disappeared with her. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
So what's weird is years later, I believe what sixteen
years later, they get an anonymous tip Long Beach does
and they say, hey, look, Diana Ross, she's not missing,
she's dead and you can find her in the desert here.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
She's buried there.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
And this anonymous tip gave coordinates, gave like the location
of where she was buried. So the police of the
time was like, I think, as Mark Biggles as the detective,
He's like, Okay, I need to check this out because
this is looking promising, so they linked up with this
third party group called necro Search, which they deal with
(53:15):
like anomalies. They use satellite imagery to see if there's
any anomalies from months to month.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Or year to year in ritation to it's like the
geography change where someone may have been buried there or yep,
something like that, yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
And they came across eleven anomalies that they sent to
the detective, and the detective narrowed it down to five
and then there was one specific spot where necro Search said,
this is probably your best bet of if she's buried here,
this is where you'll find her. So they took out
(53:48):
a crew dug up these spots nothing, so the family
had to relive all of this again. It was like, Okay,
they thought they were going to get some closure. Okay,
she's you know, even though it's not good still, but
they they were robbed of that closure again because they
didn't find her. They didn't find the truck. And another
(54:12):
puzzling thing is America Rodriguez right his mo in the military,
because he was in the military, was operating earth diggers
like earth movers, these bulldozers and excavators that was his
MO in the in the military.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
It's someone who clearly knows how to do that. If
that were right.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
There's a lot of things strange about this.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
The letter sent to the police, like the head coordinates.
Does someone write a letter.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
Like no, no, no, they called in. They called and said, hey,
look this is where you can find it. They called
in address it was a male. Well, they said that
they couldn't there was. The detective said that there's no
way we could have pinpointed who.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
It was that gave the TI. Well, if that's too bad. Right.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
So it's a lot of really puzzling, frustrating things for
me because it feels like, and I'm not trying to
to blame anybody, but it feels like there's the ball
has been dropped in some way here.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Oh, I mean, clearly you're at this point, you're looking
at two people that need to be reinterviewed by the police,
right yep. Or let me talk to you. Then, if
if this was your friend, you should be wondering what
happened to her. Still, I know it might be hard
to talk about, but it would be more suspicious if
(55:35):
you didn't, right, because you could help clear up a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
And here's another thing payint Like, not long after Diana
came up missing, America tries to take out a three
hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy after after so mean, okay,
why would you even okay, exactly call one exactly and
that just as obvious as it seems, right, But but
(56:00):
think about it, like if you have a two year
old daughter, Yeah, you're not gonna want to just give
up hope that your daughter's mother is dead.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
How holds the daughter now?
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Now she's twenty twenty five? Twenty five?
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yep? Wow.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
So and that's another thing. America cut off all ties
with Diana's side of the family after all this went down.
So Mercedes not only lost a mother, but she lost
that whole side of her family as well. Ease, okay,
so all of these things just it's frustrating. Why would
(56:37):
you take out a life insurance policy? Then one of
his friends from Ford Irwin, his soldier buddies, tells the
police that and tells friends that America said, oh, they'll
never find Diana. Why would you say that? Why would
(56:57):
you say that if you didn't know something? You know
what I mean, I'm not trying to get that point
blame here.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
These are things that this person should answer to. I mean,
if they aren't true, then defend yourself. But I think
that either you're just really really unlucky or you're not right.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
And it's it's sad because again Mercedes had to go
and she's probably been told a different version.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Of a story.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
Yeah, and then missing out on that half of her
family as well.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's horrible.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
And again, anybody that knew Diana knew how sweet she was.
I remember I was only thirteen at the time, twelve,
thirteen years old. She was always super sweet to me,
very funny. Yeah, just a great person. But I remember
America as well. When we were having one of the
get togethers, he looked like he didn't want anybody there.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
Oh really, And he remembers this.
Speaker 3 (57:56):
He's very intimidating, very interesting, very intimidating guy, like like
very stern face, didn't didn't give a shit if you
were there or not, didn't want you there. I wouldn't socialize,
so it would.
Speaker 1 (58:12):
Give you bad vibes.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
Even then, And whenever my mother told me that she
went missing, she told me right away she felt it
was probably America because there was a restraining order that
she took out against him. She would tell her co
workers that he broke her arm one time and that
she was fearful of her life. All of this stuff,
(58:36):
and he was never He was never a prime suspect.
I don't get it, you know, pretty cut and dry.
Hopefully someone hears something.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Or and that prompts someone to speak about this, because
I assume he's still around likely right as far as
I know he is. Yeah, I haven't been.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
Able to because I tried to research, try to find
them online and stuff right head over the years, I
haven't been able to locate him or his daughter. I
look to see if really maybe his daughter was had
a social media presence at all.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
That's like, yeah, I already did.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
All are the pros here on that, but but you know,
that's that's one thing. Kind of what led me into
researching it some anyway, was like I have this group
whenever I'm not doing the TV stuff called the Searchers,
and it's me and a longtime buddy of mine, Josh Purvis,
and we try to provide answers for those unusual, unexplained things,
(59:39):
but also for the living as well. So we've done
some true crime stuff as well, just because it's all
about the search, like we're all searching for something strange
and unusual, or it's other things, you know, we're all
searching for something. We're all on a journey. And this
(59:59):
just hit close to home, man, and the fact that
this beautiful lady there's no answers whatsoever. There's some leads
and being told and she could be out there in
the desert. They could have missed her by one hundred yard.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yeah, it's it's worth researching.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I mean, And there was eleven anomalies. Where did those
anomalies come from? How were those there? If they were
different from a certain time to present, why were those
anomalies there in the first place? Yeah, just so many
a lot of unanswered questions. And if you narrow down
six anomalies, why didn't you just go to the other six.
(01:00:43):
I know you have to have resources and time and
money and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Right, this is not cheap or easy to do by
any means, But why not investigate the places the soul search?
I think? Right?
Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Right, that's what it sounds like, right for her when
if anybody's been there, that's like the that that I
don't want to cut too much of that asshole of
the west. It was like one hundred and it was
it was like one hundred and thirty degree dry heat.
That's oh god, whenever we first moved there, and it's
just there's nothing there but as whole of the west,
(01:01:13):
the ass whole of the West. But there's nothing there
but desert man. Like, So, I mean, if she was buried,
I think that if something happened to her in that way,
that she's buried with the truck, because why would there
not be a paper trail, why would there not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Be the register? That's an interesting point.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
And even the detective at the time, he's like, there
is no trace at all of this truck since and
this is years and years later, man. So I would
think that if something.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Happened, the truck is part of the evidence there.
Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Right on with her, because she wouldn't have left. She
wouldn't have left her daughter.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
There's something you would keep, right, it's worth something.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
And it wasstered. You know, it's registered in America's name.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Right, What why in what circumstance are you ditching the
truck here? Yep? If it's foul play, for sure. So
it's a good point.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Yeah, it's mind boggling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Man. Yeah, we'll share this in the episode. Hopefully someone here, Yeah,
please please do.
Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
If anybody here know anything, you could have the missing
puzzle piece that ties all of this together and gives
closure to a family. And that's what's the most is
the most important about all of this. But yeah, I mean,
there's so many sad there's so many missing persons that
you are instrumental in a lot of all of this
(01:02:45):
bringing it to light. But there's so many people out
there that don't get the closure, that don't get the answers,
and that is heartbreaking, you know, especially for a young
kid Mercedes that had to grow up without a mother.
It's heartbreaking stuff. And never knowing it if her mother
(01:03:05):
abandoned her or if she's dead.
Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
She has no answer, just the unanswered question part of it.
It's got to be a whole other layer that is
hard to i mean, probably unimaginedly hard to grapple with. Yeah,
and the.
Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Fact that he talked to his friend saying that there
that they would never find her. He's talked to more
than just that friend. Then yeah, if if, if that
is true, and he really did say that, there's more
people that know something absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Or they've observed behavior or instances over the years that
point to a direction. Here. For sure, it's be a
one off thing, but if you put it with everything else,
here tells us something that this family needs to know. Ye. Well, yeah,
(01:03:55):
hopefully something happens. We'll just some digging too. I'm curious, Nat,
please do the people are now? But yeah, cases get
solved every day. It's not easy to do. But sometimes
the time that's passed is a good thing for certain people.
(01:04:16):
Maybe people are less or more likely to talk because
their life's different.
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Now, yeah, or it's been weighing on them for so
long they have to get it off their checks.
Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Or they're ready to free themselves of the burden of
it all.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, and I know it's anonymous tips for a reason.
I would really love to know who that man was
that gave the tip and said that, oh she's she's
she's been murdered.
Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
That something rankster, right, Either one, it's messed up.
Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
But but if it was a prankster, because that's what
what my thought process was too. But if there it
was a prankster, then why would there be anomalies in
the area that he's that this tip came from said, Hey,
she's buried out here. Why would there be these anomalies
in that area? It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Doesn't Yeah. Well, if we find anything, I'll let you know. Yeah,
please do, please do well. Thanks man, this has been
a blast. Yeah. I appreciate it all kind of places. Man,
I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:05:23):
Talking to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For Tenderfoot TV,
executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup
(01:05:44):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nurney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper, Skinner and Dayton. Our cover art
was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website Talking
(01:06:05):
to deathpodcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Thanks for listening to this episode, of Talking to Death.
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus
dot com
Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening
and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to Talking to Death. This week, we have
a very fun guest for you. He is a paranormal investigator.
If you're into ghosts and spirits in the afterlife, then
you're going to love this next guest. His name is
Shane Pittman, best known for his work on Netflix's series
twenty eight Days Haunted, as well as The Holzer Files
(00:42):
on Travel Channel. Shane has a passion for the unexplained,
and he brings chilling and compelling content audiences around the world.
He's dedicated to his life and career to capturing the
unexplainable phenomena that surround us every day. He's a highly
respected member of his field and has some really fun
stories to tell, and he and Paine talk about some
(01:02):
really creepy encounters that they both had. They talk about
ghosts and aliens and everything in between. So let's jump
into it. This week's guest, Shane Pittman, Well.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thanks for coming to me, man, Hey, thank you, thank
you for having me. Man. I appreciate it. Traffic wasn't
too bad. No, it wasn't bad at all. It wasn't bad.
So tell me. I just want to ask you, point blank,
to be honest, are ghosts real?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
That is a very very interesting question. I would say yes.
You would say yes. I would say yes, But I
would say as far as like defining what ghosts and
spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay,
So I know that we're communicating with someone or something,
(01:59):
but I don't really know what it is. I just
know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So
in my opinion, the how I labeled ghosts right now
is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I would say ghosts are real. Okay, So what
do you think it is? You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I have a lot of theories on that, Like it
could be interdimensional, it could be.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Ourselves.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Like there's this interesting story okay, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, this is it now getting weird? Yeah? Fast?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, So there's this interesting story from a guy he
tells where he was a young kid and he walked
into his kitchen to get a sandwich, peanut butter sandwich,
and he was like five or six years old. He
walks in and he sees this hooded figure opening up
(02:51):
his his uh, refrigerator, and it freaked him the hell
out and he ran out of there scared to death.
Fast forward though he's about in his early twenties. He's
in the same house. He's visiting his parents, and he
runs down to get a snack, which a peanut butter sandwich,
(03:13):
and he runs down and he opens the refrigerator. He's
got a hoodie on, and he sees a small figure
in the doorway and at first he's like, this is strange,
it doesn't make any sense. But it freaked him out again.
But then he remembered when he was six years old,
he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot
(03:34):
that he was standing to go get a snack and
when he opened the refrigerator. And he's thinking that maybe
he saw a version of himself in the future. So
maybe we're haunting ourselves.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I know. It's kind of a confusing thing. So he
saw a ghost. Essentially, two times, and like it potentially
actualized that event right where, and then the second time
he was seeing the younger self, who was probably spooked
the first time that yeah, okay, now it's okay. How
do you make sense of that? I mean, we're just
making it up here, We're just speculating, But yeah, what
(04:10):
does that mean to you? Is there some sort of
time playing that we don't understand? Is an imprint? I believe.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I believe it is an imprint. I do believe that
it's a time thing too, because time is man made
as far as.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
How we do it anyway. I mean, the concept of
the concept the ticking watch, right, that's just a measurement essentially,
right right.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Right, So we kind of come up as a man
made construct. And I believe that we are more powerful
than we kind of give ourselves credit for. I use
this analogy all the time that you know, I can
walk into a room after a couple had been done
fighting and they're not saying a word. I can walk in,
(04:57):
but you can feel the tension from that argument even
though they don't say anything to you at all.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Are you actually feeling something or are you observing them
being different? Well? I think it's a.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
It's a mixture of both, because I've had this happen
more than one time, where you walk in there off
doing their own thing, but you can feel that something's
not right. You can feel like an energy or something right.
You can feel like a shift in the air or whatever.
And you know how sometimes you're walking down a dark
alleyway or whatever and you feel you just feel like
(05:33):
something's off. You feel like you usually deserve to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But yeah, it's the same, not just casually every Tuesday, right, right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But you know, if you're walking in certain places, you
know that.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You're on high alert.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's something within you that is telling you, hey, be careful.
It's that gut instinct. And I think that that has
something to do with it. I think that we have
more influence over certain hauntings then we, you know, we
may realize. So a lot of people say, oh, this
place is haunted or whatever, And I think a lot
(06:10):
of times it has to do with living more than
what we perceive as the dead.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, living is in the observer of it, or.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
The observers sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place,
that are living there. I think sometimes it has to
do with maybe the environment with things that are going on,
stress levels and whatever that energy is admitting at the
time could play a factor in some of these strange
and unusual things that's going on in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Okay, So instead of just being the Hollywood version of
you know, it's your dead great grandpa, it's maybe your
own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in
some sort of way. Absolutely, it's observable absolutely others even right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
A lot of people. You know, I give this analogy again.
You know, there's been since the dawn of time probably
what millions billions of people that have passed from this
physical plane, and we confine them to structures. So often
we'll say this place is this place is haunted, this
(07:21):
place over here is haunted. But I feel that, you know,
if that's true, we pass on in some a fraction
of us stay, then we're they're everywhere, or a piece
of that person that was left behind is everywhere, so
we can encounter them, you know, daily.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I feel like there's this sort of Hollywood image of
or I guess Hollywood portrayal of good and evil. So
frequently when it comes to hauntings and ghosts, it's always
usually portrayed as a good or evil presence, and I
feel like that's not very scientific, But I mean that
(08:05):
being said, you know, you hear stories about stuff that
feels darker or scarier in that way. But do you
perceive those darker instances as an evil presence or is
it just how we're perceiving it. I've just thought before,
(08:25):
what if something doesn't know where it is, or like
if it's you know, trapped in a place and it's
like stuck, or maybe it's not even it's like the
remnants of what it once was and it doesn't even
know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrated.
I'd be banging walls and shit too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right, well, and you know, we always fear what we
don't understand too, So a lot of people whenever they
have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear.
It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee
the area because you don't understand what's going on on.
That doesn't mean it's evil, that doesn't mean it's necessarily
(09:04):
bad to your point, you know, I feel like if
there is an instance where you do stay here, for
whatever reason, after you die, then if you were an
asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole
you stay in the afterlife. I mean, think about it
like your true essence of who you are. I mean,
(09:25):
if you're a good person in life, it would make
sense that you would be a good person. If you
stay behind in some sort of a piece of you
left or stayed behind, then you would be still a
good person. But again, if you were an asshole, you'll
be an asshole again.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You know, an asshole ghost. Yeah, so I want you
to tell me just the first one that comes to
your head. What is a time that you have been
the most scared or or is there one or you
just like totally immune to ghosts. Tickle on the back
of your neck these days? Oh no.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So if anybody's watched The Holser Files, which I was
a part of for two seasons, you know, I'm a
very skittish guy, and I don't hide it. I'll jump
if I get scared.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's just one of those things. I think.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
One of the scariest times for me was whenever I
was in Cleveland, Ohio and we were investigating this train
yard and there were instances of a lot of weird
things going on. They had what they call a death car,
which why did we investigate this place, I don't know.
But they had this place called the death car where
(10:37):
this particular train car was involved in a really bad
accident and essentially the people that were inside the train
car got steamed alive because there was a malfunction.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, it's horrible, horrible jesu. Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
But there was this other place in the train yard
called the pit, and of course they send me there because.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You know there'll be some good foot Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So it's like, uh, it's underneath this this train car
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And I go under there and there's one way in,
one way.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Out, and I couldn't just walk in. I had to
crawl in because I think it's maybe two and a
half three feet high. And I'm crawling in there, and
for about four hours I'm in there. At this point,
nothing really is going on.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Four hours.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Oh yeah, man, you have to or anything. Oh yeah,
you have to hold it. Yeah, you just have to
hold it waiting.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
For a ghost. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Well, I mean, guys, well you busy, well, you know,
you you do filming and stuff too. Sometimes, especially in
the paranormal genre of you have to wait sometimes hours
before for a light to flicker, yeah, or footsteps or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So here I was.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I was under the train car. It was about four
four and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Did you get used to it? At that point?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I got used to it. I was getting bored and
I was getting frustrated it. It became less scary play
for a moment, right I was like, I was like, man,
there's oil, there's dirt.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's not a cool environment to be in, and it
kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And while I'm thinking all of this, I start hearing
footsteps underneath the train car. And from the viewer's perspective,
though they're seeing, you know, it's bright, the IR light
is bright, but underneath I could barely see anything. It's
dark as hell under there. And so I'm trying to
(12:34):
figure out where's where are these footsteps coming from? And
how can there be footsteps because I couldn't even walk in,
I had to crawl in. But I'm literally hearing footsteps
coming up to me. So I turned my camera around
and I'm looking and I don't see anything at all.
And then there's pebbles or rocks or something like that,
(12:57):
that are being thrown at me from underneath again, and
I can't pinpoint where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Like an actual physical, physical pebble.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, I'm hearing them. I'm hearing them, but I don't
actually feel them hitting me, but I'm I'm hearing them
being thrown. And at this point, I'm like, Okay, it's
coming from the direction I need to get out of
and I don't. I'm frozen. I don't want to I
don't know what to do, Like I don't want to
go in the direction where they.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't know what this. Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That's going on, and I turn my camera and as
soon as I do, I'm looking in that direction and
I feel like a like a tug on my leg,
like something grabbing me. And so that's when I freak
out and I'm like, oh hell, and I then I
just I decide to just get out of there. But
later on, whenever I'm reviewing the footage, when I turn
(13:58):
the camera, you see like a hand come into frame,
like almost like coming from the from the left side.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like an actual hand, like a shadow not your hand.
It's a shadow hand, not my hand, someone else, something
else's hands, and.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Shadow, a shadow of a hand like coming at the
same time I was grabbed, and you're like, talk about
you talk about being probably the most freaked out I've
ever been.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And to this day, the.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
People that watched The Holter Files and said that's their
favorite episode because they got to see me freaked out
and scared. But that was the creepiest. That's probably the
creepiest time that I've ever had.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that wasn't some TV TV show shit. That was
some for real No, that was for real.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well, see, that was one thing about me signing on
to do The Holzer Files, As I said, Look, I
know it's a TV show. I know we got to
have a good story. I know all of this has
to go on, but I really want it to be
as genuine as possible because I do this outside of
the TV world. I've been interested in the stuff since
(15:02):
I was six, So I don't want my reputation tarness.
I'm already looked at as crazy for believing in for
something other than myself, right, I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Add to that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So I want the footage, I want the audio. I
want to review it before I give it to the
editors and stuff, so they would hand off a drive
to me. Before I would even leave set the investigation time,
they would hand me a drive so I could review
it myself right on the spot, which is unheard of.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
A lot of times. They don't usually, you know, roll
like the yeah time.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So I'm very thankful to have been a part of
a show like that. But yeah, they handed off to me,
and and all the footage that we found that is
in the show, I found it and gave them the
time stamps. So yeah, it's no TV shit at all.
(16:03):
It was real and I knew it. I mean, and
a lot of people ask me, oh, yeah, this is
just TV stuff, this is whatever. But then I asked them,
It's like, do you see how many times I have
basically shipped myself and looked horrible? Do you really think
that I want everybody to perceive me that way? No,
(16:24):
But at the same time, I want to show you
genuine you know, how you would react at home. This
is how I react, and this is just me, you know,
so or you're just.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
A really good actor.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
No, No, if anybody knows me I'm not there, that would.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Be acting way different, be way cooler, right, I would
be awesome, would scream like that you know, it's crazy too.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
It like I I tried for the first couple of
episodes that we filmed, tried to be the stoic Shane.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You know. Then you were like fuck this.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And then after a while I was like, I can't
hide this anymore. I look awkward. This isn't this isn't normal.
I can't hide it wasn't the plan.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You were trying to go in all brave. Yeah. I
was trying to go in brave and not scared of anything, right.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I tried to do that, and then and the producers
and stuff were like, Shane, like, we've seen some of
your work.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
We know this isn't you. Just be you.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Dave Schrader, which is another really awesome guy in the field,
he took me under his wing and he's like, Shane,
you know, if you're scared, be scared, react, that's you.
Be you, because that's why they brought you on to
begin with, So be yourself. And from that advice, I
was like, Okay, fine, yeah, people are going to see
(17:42):
me right and and all my glory here we go. Yeah,
And from there that it was all she wrote.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I had a lot of spooky moments. I mean, I
understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of
paranormal stuff, right. I think that for ages we've been
fascinated by things that we don't understand, and there's a
lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in
(18:11):
the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what
any of it means or if it's you know, something
spiritual or scientific. I lean more to the scientific side
of it. But how do you get wrapped into it
in a way where you can be a professional investigator
of it? Right? Like? Clearly you as a kid found
(18:32):
interest in this at some point, right, what was it
that kind of made it more than just curiosity? Like?
How did it go from just being curious to I
do this? I guess you could say professionally. Literally, Yeah,
that's a big jump then, yeah, which is kind of
your kid sells probably like hell yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Right, right, That's a very good question, and I'll try
to condense it as much as possible. So my first
experience was when I was six years old and very profound.
I went to my mother about it and it was
a very impactful thing for me and during that time
in my life. Without going into much detail, there was
(19:15):
a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff
in my life. And it was within the moments where
I was wanting to give up and you know, call
it quits, when I would have these weird, strange, unusual
moments that would kind of snap me back and say, Okay,
there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's
(19:37):
more beyond it that you can't understand. So from the
early age, once I got into my teenage years, I
started researching and reading all the books Harry Price, Hans Holzer,
all of the books based on the experiences that I
was having at the.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Time, which were what exactly well I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
For instance, when I was twelve years old, I had
I was in my room and the closet door was
kind of slightly open, and we had one of those
old houses where the carpet was higher, so the doors
would always scrape to the top of the carpet. It
would leave like a mark on there. And it was
(20:24):
slightly open, and I was going to sleep. About five
minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings,
so I was thinking, Okay, somebody's playing a trick on me.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So I go open the closet door. Nothing was in there,
so it was like, this is.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Weird, and me, being the smart Southern man that I am,
I leave it open again and I go lay back down.
Probably a little time happens and it slams again. This
time I'm freaked out. I run to my parents' room,
which is across the hall, and they're like, Shane, you're
(21:04):
just you're trying to stay up. Go to bed right,
We're tired when we have work in the morn. So
they take me back to bed and for whatever reason,
that closet doors open again and it slams for a
third time. After they leave the room, this time they.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Run into my room.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And I grew up in a religious household, so my
mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me, doing
whatever she can just just to like whatever's going on,
it needs to stop now. And I ended up sleeping
in their room that night. It was things like that.
It was I would have weird visions or dreams, I
(21:48):
guess you can call it. Where there would be people
that would walk up to my bedside and some of
them would look like they're terrified. Some would say where
am I at?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't
know where the stuff? They were saying at the edge
of your bed, like they didn't know where they were
literally right, like where they weren't like haunting you, They're
like what it is?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's like, help me, where am I at? What's what's
so they look like us?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That scares me kind of they look like us that
they don't know where they are right more than them
knowing where they are and who you are right.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And at that time, it's like, Okay, am I is
this just my subconsciousness just because I'm going through a
lot of crap.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Right, Yeah, yeah, just stress imagining these things, right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
But then I would have other experiences like the door
slamming and stuff, things that I knew even at a
young age. Okay, it can't be a draft in my
room because the carpet. They're like, it's hard for me
to push the door closers stuff too, Right, So there's
compounding evidence. And even to this day, how I kind
(22:53):
of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything
and say, you know, if I hear footsteps, I don't say,
oh my god, that's a ghost or you know, I
look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading
to something that I would assume would be more paranormal nature.
Then I will take a look at it and kind
(23:13):
of try to explore it further. But just like footsteps
or an old house settling, which can cause sounds of
what it would sound like wood creaking or whatever, right,
all that stuff is, you know, I think compounding evidence
is when we have to take a look at it
(23:34):
and you know, try to research further into what or
who we're communicating.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
With these people. I'm to have this image in my
head now, these people on the edge of your bed,
wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment
that those were definitely goes, And how would you rationalize that.
What are they doing there? I don't know. Like I said,
that's your best theory. If you were to make one up, I.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Would say that they're If they are real, I would
say that they are in some transitional period and maybe
a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason,
they're stuck.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
But you were seeing full people though, right, They didn't
look like a fragment of something. They were an actual
full embodiment, like where they wearing clothes and stuff. I
mean yeah, yeah, which is which is they seem like
they're from this time period? Could you even sell them?
Some of them, yes, some of them no? Do you like?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I remember there was this one lady who looked happy
and she was just walking by, but she was like
in a Victorian style dress, like just a dress, corset,
all that stuff, hair up in a bun.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
It was strange.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And again, like I said, I would think, Okay, maybe
I'm just dreaming or but this was more than one
occurrence and more than one house that I was in,
sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great,
but it was these moments where it's like, Okay, if
this is real, and not even saying it is for certain,
(25:20):
but if it's real, I want to find out more
about it. So the more that I researched and stuff,
the more I saw that there was many other people
that were having similar experiences and I just wanted to
know more. But then the corporate world happened, and so
my studying all that stuff came to a halt because
(25:41):
corporate world happened and I had to make a living.
There wasn't some Ghostbusters school around, No, I wish because
I may have sign me up. Yeah, But you know,
I started a family, had my wife and my kids
and stuff, and I had to provide for them. So
(26:03):
corporate world happened.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I was an executive in a company, worked my way
up and I was over hundreds of employees.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But I was miserable.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It was a soul draining existence.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I hated it. Sounds bad, I hated it.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And I was in a hotel room one night in Coleman, Alabama,
and I just rewind.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
A couple of weeks prior, I had a buddy of mine,
a producer buddy of mine, saying, look, there's this gig,
this TV gig that I think you'd be good for.
You kind of fit the part of what they're looking for.
Why don't you send in your headshot and all that
stuff and see what happens. And I've been through all
of that before, and it's like, I don't really want
(26:49):
to do that. I'm good with my job, I'm making money,
it's fine. But because I was so miserable, I was like, Okay,
I'll just send it in. It only takes me a second.
Sure I do that, and fast forward. I'm in my
hotel room in Coleman, Alabama, and I'm in a really
low spot because I was working six days a week.
(27:09):
I would come home on Sunday and I sleep all
of Sunday away. So because I was so exhausted, I
wasn't seeing my family, was missing first steps, birthdays, holidays,
and I was just miserable. So I was in that
hotel room just crying out to whoever or whatever would listen.
(27:29):
It's like, look, I need help, I need to change.
I can't keep doing this. Within thirty minutes, I look down,
there's a phone call from la unknown caller. I pick
it up and it's the casting director for Holzer Files.
And that kind of led me into So it's almost
like a fate.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Type thing, like it was something that you're, Okay, I
should do this.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
It's something that just kind of threw me into to
doing it professionally, and it was something I love of
mine that already had, so it was like a shoe in.
But you know, that whole process too was scary because
I was leaving a job that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Was paying very well and my wife at a risk. Right,
It wasn't just some easy My life's going to be
so much better now caah move.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And people think, you know reality TV, Oh man, you're
probably rolling in the dough. That's not the case at all.
People don't really understand how all of that is.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Like, guys, do you know the budget for these shows? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, it was like a promotional type thing. It was
more of I was taking a pay cut of.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Course, Yeah, to do something that you wanted to do
versus I mean something that was I guess more financially stable,
right right.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So you know that's why I credit my wife a
lot to all of this, because she said, look, you
love this, this is a passion of yours. This is
something you've been wanting to do as far as searching
and investigating this stuff. So if you want to do it,
do it.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So yeah, it was scary time, man, because I bet
because taking that leap is taking that leap is hard.
I mean most people, I feel like, go through life
not ever taking that leap. I might say most, but
a lot of people do, right, Well, they play, they
play into what's safe, right, which which is not which
also that's.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Okay, right, but if you're someone who is sitting there
who's on the edge of doing it, just do it
for sure, just for sure, and whatever that even is
for sure, you know, they just commit a crime or something.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
But you know what I mean, right, Well, there's so
many people too like they play it safe because they
have a family they had to take care of. And
that's not knocking them at all. I completely understand that.
But yeah, if you have an opportunity as something that
and it's doing something you love to do, just just
do it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So when you look back in hindsight any regrets here, No,
does it almost scare you to think about if you
didn't take that risk. It scares me a lot, right
because how close you were to not doing right And
because me sometimes I'm like, holy shit, I almost didn't
do this right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Well, you know, and because I went through life and
I had some mental health things going on, because of
things that have happened in my life. Yeah, and I
always wonder, well, if I didn't take a step doing
something I love, where would.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I be at? Would I still be here?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And that's just being completely honest, because I'd gone through
a lot of really traumatic times in my life. So
now fast forward to this time. Whenever I'm at events
and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people
not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but
(30:51):
about mental health. And like I've been there, I took
a leap, you know. If I didn't, if all of
these things didn't play out like they were supposed to,
I wouldn't up here talking to you right now.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I wouldn't be able to do what I love.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So I get to encourage other people that may be
in my same shoes at that time and be able
to give them some hope. And that's something that is
much more rewarding to me than a TV show or
anything else.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Of course. Yeah, that human connection is priceless, right, And
because you've been that guy on the other end, and
you may be on the other end again, or I
might and it's the other way around, right.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Right, And believe it or not, Man, there's so many
people that come to my events that they come to
escape their own personal hell and their life, right, and
this is something that they love. But at the same
time they come to kind of escape that just the
everyday life of what they're going through and just.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Sort of live in this world for a moment.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Live in the world and get to explore something beyond.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That doesn't have the same rules and constraints. Maybe is
that how you kind of perceive it.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Or yep, that and it shows them kind of like
what I was thinking when I was younger, is like,
there's more beyond this life that I'm living.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
There's more beyond that.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And people get to come to these events and share
and experiences of others that maybe going through similar things
that they're going through, and it's just a time of
fellowship and connection.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Again more important than TV, more important than anything else.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And I think, I guess objectively speaking, it would be
a sadder reality if there was nothing else, right, you know,
not even from a religious standpoint, just if this was it.
It's just us here on this big rock. There's nothing
else out there, there's no other dimensions or anything. It's
just we have really good imaginations and you know, we're
(32:51):
just born up our minds at this point.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, it would be extremely sad, right, that's true, Solame,
It would.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Be boring blame than it would be sad. Yeah, it's
like that's stupid.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Really right, And you know, I think a lot a
lot of times I'd be thinking, too, well, am I
just hoping for something more?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I think there's that's part of it. I mean, I
think that life would be more interesting if there was more.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, And I think sometimes am I just do
I have an overactive imagination. But then, just to give
you a little example, these are things that kind of
snapped me out of that and say, no, there's more.
I was in h Waverley Hills Sanitarium, which is in Kentucky.
(33:40):
It is considered one of the one of the most
haunted places in America. That's debatable, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I was there. The way I'm not going. I was there.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You need to go we need to go together first
or second, third out there. We need to go together.
It'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
No, okay.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So anyway, I was doing an event there and I
had a group of fifteen twenty people. Right, this is
a or you just well, you're you're leading like a
ghost hunt.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
You're leading like a little guys like come to the
spooky place, and you're yeah, please tell me you actually
get scared in here as the guy who is I
guess not putting it on an act in this oh
sat and.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
People see people see uh leading up to you'll see Okay.
So I have the group and I'm like, okay, And
what I like to do is get everybody quiet, because
when you have larger groups and stuff, it's kind of
hard to do anything because everybody's talking. Yeah, so I'm
trying to get the group together to shut up yep, yep,
(34:40):
well and kinder words. Yeah, And I look down the hall,
I see this man and he's kind of limping and
he's kind of falling behind, and I'm like, excuse me, sir,
can you please join us, you know, so we can
get started. And as soon as I say that, I
kid you not. You see the front of him walking
(35:02):
towards right. The only way I can describe it is
he morphs and you see the back of his head
and he's walking the opposite direction. It's like he did
a pivot. It's like he did an about face. But
you didn't see the about face. You just see him.
You see the back of his head instead. What's very
interesting about this, though, pain.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
My whole group saw it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Okay, so it's not just me my perception. The entire
group saw this exact same thing. I sent two of
the guys that were there running because I stayed with
the group.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Of course, my.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Jumpy ass is not going to run after something like that.
I may be the pro, but I'm not going to run.
I'm going to send somebody. Yeah, I'm going to send somebody.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So I sent two guys to go, and this guy
turns a corner. Whatever we saw, this shadow turns a
corner and heads towards the atrium, the little chapel in
the area, and they go in there and there's nobody.
Nobody in the chapel at all. We have We had
(36:11):
guards that are in watching over the exits so that
way people can't go in or go out and join
another group prematurely. We try to keep everybody together. They're like,
we didn't see anybody come in.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Or go out.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But the fact that my entire group saw this saw
that he didn't just turn around just saw. They saw
him walking forward, then saw him walking backwards full on
shadow figure man, and there was no trace of anybody.
That's what snaps me back. It's like, Okay, there's more
that we don't understand. We like to label it ghosts
(36:50):
and spirits. I don't like to say ghosts and spirits
as much anymore. I just know that we're talking to something,
whoever or whatever it is. I don't know what it is,
and it's kind of you know, I don't know how
to label it other than I know it's unexplainable. It's
something as of right now, it's paranormal nature. It's outside
(37:11):
of that box of scientific understanding.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Anyway. Why is it that ghosts are so hard to
capture on video and pictures? I mean there has to
be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later,
or they're just really good at ducking it somehow, right,
(37:36):
or is it not? Like I mean, just if you
wanted to go there. Is it something that the human
eye can only perceive a certain way that isn't really
able to be captured like that? I don't know, Like,
do you have a thought on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, So again on Holzer files, we've shown that we
have captured some stuff. I think it is hand hand. Uh,
there was a mist. It was Howard's lodge.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I believe it is. There was a mist going.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Upstairs, some really interesting stuff that it's kind of hard for.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
The anomalies that were not right.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
It's hard for me to to pinpoint what it is.
And I think that it has something to do with,
you know, our perception of what we can see what
our eyes can physically see. And that's why I r
can you know, it can capture things and it can
see in a different scope than what our human I
(38:35):
could see. I think it could be all frequency related.
I think that may have something to do with it,
that they may be showing up, but it's it's certain frequencies,
certain wavelengths, even cameras less physical well, even our technology
that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe
they can capture that necessarily.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I think even with.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
EVP electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something
on a recorder a voice that you know was not
yours or anybody else's. It's an interesting theory. There's this guy,
Bill Chapple that makes all of this tech and stuff,
and he will tell you firsthand.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
That he doesn't believe in ghosts.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He just believes that there's some strange shit going on,
and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told
me something that was really interesting about EVP. He's like,
you know, Shane, right now that I have this this
microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part
(39:42):
of a room, and I can play music in that
frequency and it can sound like the music is coming
from over there, but really it's coming from this device
I have in my hand. But I can make the
sound go wherever I want it to go. What and
that's just what it's all I want. It's a mono
(40:02):
I have to ask him, it's mono something microphone, but
it's a.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Laser crazy, it's actually tricking your brain or is it?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
And he really, well he can point it to certain
to certain like if.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
There's exactly is he is still like audibly coming from
this device in his hand. So yeah, So it's electromagnetic pinginge,
pinging somewhere, eating this perception that it's not coming.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
From and in frequency that the human ear can hear. So like,
if there's a group of people right sitting in an audience,
he can point this microphone to the right half of
the audience and only the right half can hear what's
coming through and the other half would be like, I'm
not hearing anything, right. So if there's things like that,
(40:52):
I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency,
in regards to maybe our visual spectrum of what we
can see that that is unexplained, that maybe there's more
that if our eyes could see in that scope, we'd
be seeing a hell of a lot more, you know.
So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't
capture is maybe we don't maybe we haven't caught up
(41:12):
to the technology to be able to capture something like that,
you know. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in
certain times that we're able to see anomalies and we're
able to see things, you know, like there's different dream
cycles and sleep cycles and stuff, right, and in those
(41:33):
cycles you can there's it's best for like hypnosis and
things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states,
we're able to see and understand more. It's the same
stuff with people who go through PTSD, and they'll claim
(41:56):
all the time they see all kinds of things, and
we say, yeah, what could just be because there's a
stress disorder. It's all the stuff, and we'll label it
as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're
not really seeing the things that they're seeing.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Sometimes, well, either way, it's still a reality to them,
exactly exactly. It's a very coming right where it's like
if it's real to you, is it real? What's real? Right?
We have the booth say it's real.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Well, and here's the thing too, like, uh, you know
psychics and mediums, right, So they say that they can
hear people speaking to them that nobody else can hear.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
If you pay them money.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Well, I've worked with I've worked with some good ones. Now,
I've worked with some good ones. Okay, I will tell
you that I've worked with some good ones. And I'm
in the Bible belt man, So I was told that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
They were all demonic. These anyway, these fortune tellers are
really yeah, the devil, right.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
But you know they say that they can speak to
people and they can hear different voices and things like that.
But then we'll label someone else that says that schizophrenic
right there. So there's a fine line. Yeah, there's a
fine line.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That are you crazy? Are you not? Are you seeing
the things? Are you hearing the things that? Are you
making it look polished enough? You have mediums, don't you know?
It is a wild thing. Like no, I get it.
I hear voices. That's usually not a good thing, right,
But is that not the same thing that they're saying, right?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
That's the thing that called number for that, right. But
there's a fine line. But then you know, there's there's
some cases I've worked on or research some true crime
cases where they would call in mediums legitimately and sometimes
sometimes they would pinpoint or they would give some instances
where it would be a good lead.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
In a lot of In a lot of instances they
have done that. So clearly they're like, we're running at
op since here. We'll try anything.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Even the government, real government with remote viewing and things
like that, they had, they had a whole program catered
to all of that. So I think there's something to it.
But to your credit, like, there's a lot out there
that you know aren't legitimate, and there's I believe there
are a handful that really are and that you we
(44:23):
need to listen to what they say before we just
discard because we.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Could be missing out on advancements. Yeah, if this coming
out waste more than us and we're just over here,
you know, shrugging it off right.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Well, you got to think, for the longest time, people
thought the Earth was flat, and they thought anybody that
gave any other theory they thought were it is.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
If you're still a flat earther, is that are you?
Are you really a flat earther?
Speaker 4 (44:52):
If you're still a core flat earther, Are you just
you just being anti yeah right, I think you're being
a lily yeah, flat right, I mean like you're just
being a rebel.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And it's like to what end though, right, Like if
the Earth is flat, then why is it? What's the
point of the conspiracy? Like why why did we convince
you that it wasn't flat? Yeah? Like who cares if
it was flat or not? This doesn't make sense to me,
Like to what end?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
And to all the flat earthers that they're listening right now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
One of you just tune out?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah no no, But you know, people thought they were
crazy at one point, you know, and or well they were,
and then people who thought that sorry I said that,
all right, so people who flatter No, no, no, not
at all. People who thought people who entertained ideas that hey,
the Earth isn't flat. Yeah, everybody who thought the Earth
(45:51):
was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But
if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have
the advancements we have now. I screwed that all the
hell in back.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
It sounds like you're more on the flat side.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
But that's The thing is like, at one point in time,
people thought something was a certain way, but if they
didn't listen to to other theories and things like that,
then we would still be stuck in that right, right.
We didn't think if we didn't challenge that right.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Right, It's so easy to be in the moment and
think that we've learned everything, right. I think that's very
naive and closed minded to think that way. But I
totally get how even society makes it easier to think that.
But we are literally learning shit every single day and
we'll never stop. We'll never stop. People will ever stop.
You don't stop, period.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
And this is why I love what I do so much.
A lot of a lot of people look at it
and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe
in all this stuff?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
But I think the search for something is far more
rewarding to me than actually finding the ant to all
of this stuff. I think the search and building the
connections along the way is far more valuable to me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Just that pursuit and that journey that you go on
is kind of just your life story now.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Because as trial and error, you're you're thinking, Okay, is
this real?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Is this not, and you.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Entertain different theories and different things and come up with
your own conclusions. I mean, I think that is what
life is all about, really, is working out our own
life journey and learning along the way.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
You had mentioned before we met that there was a
missing person's case you wanted to talk about it. Yeah,
piqued my interests. What is this case? What is it?
Speaker 3 (47:49):
So it's the case of Diana Rojas. So and the
reason why this is so close to my heart is
because she was good.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Friends with my mom.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
We were in Forderwin, California, and they were a part
of what they call PwC, which Protestant Women of the Chapel.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
So it was a Bible study.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Like I said, I grew up in a religious household,
and she was a really sweet lady. And while we
were there we would have get togethers and cookouts and
stuff like that. And then we kind of lost touch
because as military families do, that's what happens is you
(48:32):
kind of move on and do your own thing. My
mother calls me one day and she's like, hey, you
remember Diana Rojas It was like yeah, she said, well
she's been missing and she'd been out of touch with
her for some years. She's like she's been missing for
a while, since two thousand and In fact, her the
(48:52):
twenty third anniversary is in a few days. Actually, she's
been missing since October twentieth, two thousand and The reason
why I find it odd is she had a two
year old daughter at the time, and anybody that knew
Diana knew that she would never leave her daughter at all.
(49:14):
So just to talk about it just a little bit.
Leading up to this, her and her husband, they were
going through a divorce. His name is America. She had
a restraining order against him for stalking and for and
for violence and abuse, and so that's two strikes right there, right.
(49:35):
So they were going through this divorce at the time,
and a part of the court ordered like living arrangements
and stuff, America paid for two apartments in this apartment complex.
So Diana lived in one apartment and he would live
with his sister and daughter whenever he was on leave.
(50:02):
So one night there was a court ordered drop off,
she had to drop off her daughter to him, so
she did, and she had a date with her boyfriend,
which was David Howard, and they were in the apartment.
Twelve fifteen, twelve thirty in the morning on October twentieth,
(50:22):
David Howard leaves and he says he closed the door
behind him and locks it, and she's asleep on the sofa.
Diana is supposedly October twentieth. Nine am comes around and
David Howard is at church, of course, because he was
the pastor's son, so that's where she worked at the time.
(50:43):
It's called the nesting place, and he calls and there's
no answer, so they start freaking out where is she.
They go to the apartment and they don't find her,
but they find a couple of droplets her blood on
the sofa, and what was really weird about that is
(51:05):
there was a bandana on the sofa too that seemed
to be soaked in What they say is urine. What
the police say, urine, Yeah, okay, which is really odd.
And her ninety two black Nissan pickup truck was also missing.
So they did all this searches and stuff, and nothing
(51:26):
came up. David Howard, the boyfriend, and America Rojas.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Were interviewed and they were.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
Suspected at the time, but they both had alibis. America
said that he was with his daughter and sister in
the apartment and so they guess and for that at
the time, at the time, I say, okay. So the
police later on said that there was inconsistencies. They couldn't
(51:53):
validate whether or not the alibi and matched up or not.
David Howard he had a solid al I don't remember
what his alibi was. But years go by, and what
is really frustrating for me is that ninety two pickup.
There's no paper trail, you know how vehicles normally have
(52:16):
the paper trails and all that. There's no sign of
this truck at all.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Like it's never come up again to your knowledge at all.
Like it's like it's just disappeared with her. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
So what's weird is years later, I believe what sixteen
years later, they get an anonymous tip Long Beach does
and they say, hey, look, Diana Ross, she's not missing,
she's dead and you can find her in the desert here.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
She's buried there.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
And this anonymous tip gave coordinates, gave like the location
of where she was buried. So the police of the
time was like, I think, as Mark Biggles as the detective,
He's like, Okay, I need to check this out because
this is looking promising, so they linked up with this
third party group called necro Search, which they deal with
(53:15):
like anomalies. They use satellite imagery to see if there's
any anomalies from months to month.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Or year to year in ritation to it's like the
geography change where someone may have been buried there or yep,
something like that, yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
And they came across eleven anomalies that they sent to
the detective, and the detective narrowed it down to five
and then there was one specific spot where necro Search said,
this is probably your best bet of if she's buried here,
this is where you'll find her. So they took out
(53:48):
a crew dug up these spots nothing, so the family
had to relive all of this again. It was like, Okay,
they thought they were going to get some closure. Okay,
she's you know, even though it's not good still, but
they they were robbed of that closure again because they
didn't find her. They didn't find the truck. And another
(54:12):
puzzling thing is America Rodriguez right his mo in the military,
because he was in the military, was operating earth diggers
like earth movers, these bulldozers and excavators that was his
MO in the in the military.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
It's someone who clearly knows how to do that. If
that were right.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
There's a lot of things strange about this.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
The letter sent to the police, like the head coordinates.
Does someone write a letter.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
Like no, no, no, they called in. They called and said, hey,
look this is where you can find it. They called
in address it was a male. Well, they said that
they couldn't there was. The detective said that there's no
way we could have pinpointed who.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
It was that gave the TI. Well, if that's too bad. Right.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
So it's a lot of really puzzling, frustrating things for
me because it feels like, and I'm not trying to
to blame anybody, but it feels like there's the ball
has been dropped in some way here.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Oh, I mean, clearly you're at this point, you're looking
at two people that need to be reinterviewed by the police,
right yep. Or let me talk to you. Then, if
if this was your friend, you should be wondering what
happened to her. Still, I know it might be hard
to talk about, but it would be more suspicious if
(55:35):
you didn't, right, because you could help clear up a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
And here's another thing payint Like, not long after Diana
came up missing, America tries to take out a three
hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy after after so mean, okay,
why would you even okay, exactly call one exactly and
that just as obvious as it seems, right, But but
(56:00):
think about it, like if you have a two year
old daughter, Yeah, you're not gonna want to just give
up hope that your daughter's mother is dead.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
How holds the daughter now?
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Now she's twenty twenty five? Twenty five?
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yep? Wow.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
So and that's another thing. America cut off all ties
with Diana's side of the family after all this went down.
So Mercedes not only lost a mother, but she lost
that whole side of her family as well. Ease, okay,
so all of these things just it's frustrating. Why would
(56:37):
you take out a life insurance policy? Then one of
his friends from Ford Irwin, his soldier buddies, tells the
police that and tells friends that America said, oh, they'll
never find Diana. Why would you say that? Why would
(56:57):
you say that if you didn't know something? You know
what I mean, I'm not trying to get that point
blame here.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
These are things that this person should answer to. I mean,
if they aren't true, then defend yourself. But I think
that either you're just really really unlucky or you're not right.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
And it's it's sad because again Mercedes had to go
and she's probably been told a different version.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Of a story.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
Yeah, and then missing out on that half of her
family as well.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's horrible.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
And again, anybody that knew Diana knew how sweet she was.
I remember I was only thirteen at the time, twelve,
thirteen years old. She was always super sweet to me,
very funny. Yeah, just a great person. But I remember
America as well. When we were having one of the
get togethers, he looked like he didn't want anybody there.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
Oh really, And he remembers this.
Speaker 3 (57:56):
He's very intimidating, very interesting, very intimidating guy, like like
very stern face, didn't didn't give a shit if you
were there or not, didn't want you there. I wouldn't socialize,
so it would.
Speaker 1 (58:12):
Give you bad vibes.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
Even then, And whenever my mother told me that she
went missing, she told me right away she felt it
was probably America because there was a restraining order that
she took out against him. She would tell her co
workers that he broke her arm one time and that
she was fearful of her life. All of this stuff,
(58:36):
and he was never He was never a prime suspect.
I don't get it, you know, pretty cut and dry.
Hopefully someone hears something.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Or and that prompts someone to speak about this, because
I assume he's still around likely right as far as
I know he is. Yeah, I haven't been.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
Able to because I tried to research, try to find
them online and stuff right head over the years, I
haven't been able to locate him or his daughter. I
look to see if really maybe his daughter was had
a social media presence at all.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
That's like, yeah, I already did.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
All are the pros here on that, but but you know,
that's that's one thing. Kind of what led me into
researching it some anyway, was like I have this group
whenever I'm not doing the TV stuff called the Searchers,
and it's me and a longtime buddy of mine, Josh Purvis,
and we try to provide answers for those unusual, unexplained things,
(59:39):
but also for the living as well. So we've done
some true crime stuff as well, just because it's all
about the search, like we're all searching for something strange
and unusual, or it's other things, you know, we're all
searching for something. We're all on a journey. And this
(59:59):
just hit close to home, man, and the fact that
this beautiful lady there's no answers whatsoever. There's some leads
and being told and she could be out there in
the desert. They could have missed her by one hundred yard.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yeah, it's it's worth researching.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I mean, And there was eleven anomalies. Where did those
anomalies come from? How were those there? If they were
different from a certain time to present, why were those
anomalies there in the first place? Yeah, just so many
a lot of unanswered questions. And if you narrow down
six anomalies, why didn't you just go to the other six.
(01:00:43):
I know you have to have resources and time and
money and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Right, this is not cheap or easy to do by
any means, But why not investigate the places the soul search?
I think? Right?
Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Right, that's what it sounds like, right for her when
if anybody's been there, that's like the that that I
don't want to cut too much of that asshole of
the west. It was like one hundred and it was
it was like one hundred and thirty degree dry heat.
That's oh god, whenever we first moved there, and it's
just there's nothing there but as whole of the west,
(01:01:13):
the ass whole of the West. But there's nothing there
but desert man. Like, So, I mean, if she was buried,
I think that if something happened to her in that way,
that she's buried with the truck, because why would there
not be a paper trail, why would there not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Be the register? That's an interesting point.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
And even the detective at the time, he's like, there
is no trace at all of this truck since and
this is years and years later, man. So I would
think that if something.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Happened, the truck is part of the evidence there.
Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Right on with her, because she wouldn't have left. She
wouldn't have left her daughter.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
There's something you would keep, right, it's worth something.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
And it wasstered. You know, it's registered in America's name.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Right, What why in what circumstance are you ditching the
truck here? Yep? If it's foul play, for sure. So
it's a good point.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Yeah, it's mind boggling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Man. Yeah, we'll share this in the episode. Hopefully someone here, Yeah,
please please do.
Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
If anybody here know anything, you could have the missing
puzzle piece that ties all of this together and gives
closure to a family. And that's what's the most is
the most important about all of this. But yeah, I mean,
there's so many sad there's so many missing persons that
you are instrumental in a lot of all of this
(01:02:45):
bringing it to light. But there's so many people out
there that don't get the closure, that don't get the answers,
and that is heartbreaking, you know, especially for a young
kid Mercedes that had to grow up without a mother.
It's heartbreaking stuff. And never knowing it if her mother
(01:03:05):
abandoned her or if she's dead.
Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
She has no answer, just the unanswered question part of it.
It's got to be a whole other layer that is
hard to i mean, probably unimaginedly hard to grapple with. Yeah,
and the.
Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Fact that he talked to his friend saying that there
that they would never find her. He's talked to more
than just that friend. Then yeah, if if, if that
is true, and he really did say that, there's more
people that know something absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Or they've observed behavior or instances over the years that
point to a direction. Here. For sure, it's be a
one off thing, but if you put it with everything else,
here tells us something that this family needs to know. Ye. Well, yeah,
(01:03:55):
hopefully something happens. We'll just some digging too. I'm curious, Nat,
please do the people are now? But yeah, cases get
solved every day. It's not easy to do. But sometimes
the time that's passed is a good thing for certain people.
(01:04:16):
Maybe people are less or more likely to talk because
their life's different.
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Now, yeah, or it's been weighing on them for so
long they have to get it off their checks.
Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Or they're ready to free themselves of the burden of
it all.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, and I know it's anonymous tips for a reason.
I would really love to know who that man was
that gave the tip and said that, oh she's she's
she's been murdered.
Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
That something rankster, right, Either one, it's messed up.
Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
But but if it was a prankster, because that's what
what my thought process was too. But if there it
was a prankster, then why would there be anomalies in
the area that he's that this tip came from said, Hey,
she's buried out here. Why would there be these anomalies
in that area? It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Doesn't Yeah. Well, if we find anything, I'll let you know. Yeah,
please do, please do well. Thanks man, this has been
a blast. Yeah. I appreciate it all kind of places. Man,
I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:05:23):
Talking to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For Tenderfoot TV,
executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup
(01:05:44):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nurney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper, Skinner and Dayton. Our cover art
was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website Talking
(01:06:05):
to deathpodcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Thanks for listening to this episode, of Talking to Death.
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus
dot com
Host
Payne Lindsey
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