March 20, 2024 • 34 mins
Golf Digest Top 50 Golf Instructor Brian Manzella joins Chris on this episode to share the most important characteristics of a great golf instructor. Credibility, flexibility, and compatibility are all key in finding your perfect instructor!
Connect with Brian: @brianmanzella / brianmanzellagolf.com
Brian and Michael Jacobs Facebook Group: Post Modern Golf
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for S Golf. Welcome to the
Golf Fitness Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is Chris Finn.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm your host, and I'm here today joined by a
pretty exciting guest. If you don't know Brian Manzela, let
me tell you a little bit about him, because we're
lucky to have him with us on the pod today.
He's the thirteenth ranked teacher in America and Golf Digests
you fifty best Teachers in America for twenty four to
twenty five. It's a sixth consecutive time in the top fifty,
(00:35):
so I think the goat list is coming soon. He's
seven time current Golf Magazine Top Hunter Teacher in America.
He's a thirty four year member of the PGA of America.
He was also the twenty thirteen PGA Golf State Section
Teacher of the Year in the PGA Kentucky Section Teacher
of the Year in two thousand and three, and the
list goes on and on and on. All that said
(00:57):
to say, we are with a with us. Brian Mizella
is a very renowned golf instructor, just one of the
great minds of the game, has helped tons of people,
particularly at the highest of high levels.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Brian, welcome to the pod because I didn't have you man.
Awesome to be on with you and right ready to
talk some golf. Absolutely, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So just for I would like to start, just in
case someone has been living under rock and they don't
know who you are, haven't heard of you? You know,
what can you give kind of just a little bit
of a you know, brief Yeah, how did you get
to where you are?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
All that stuff?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You know? Yeah, that But basically I've been I've been
teaching for forty one years.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
It'll be I guess it turns into forty two. Here
the first Tuesday in June, because that's that's how I
got started doing the junior clinic right up the street
here at a big golf facility City Park in New Orleans,
and they just said, hey, you know, go across the
(02:01):
street and do the junior junior clinic. And then there
were a bunch of little kids with running noses and
mamas with with you know, pushing a pushing a new
baby around in the stroller. So, uh, I got into
some of my accident and what I've done again for
the people that don't know who the hell I am is.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I had to go being the number one guy. When
I started, I said I want to be the best
at something. It was a business that I didn't realize
that I had a little aptitude for.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
When I found out I did, I went, well, hey,
I can start somewhere in the middle. And uh uh
and and you know the thing about uh, let's just say,
what makes the guy who's listening to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That's probably an avid golfer.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Right that if they're on your podcast and that's some
other person they and they haven't heard of me, it's
because they don't read the magazines.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Or on social media, right.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
So I mean, there's there's there's a bunch of ways
to get your name out there. Uh. The easiest ones
that is, is to tease somebody that wins, like, you know,
like a month of tournaments and have your name mentioned
on TV five hundred times. But the fun does that
does help really doled out very that's not really doled
out very fairly. You know, the you know I worked
(03:23):
with I've still consider myself one of you know, the
guys that works with David Thoms and I've.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Been working with him since he was at LSU.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
And the last really good run we had, which was
like i'd say, like nine about thirteen, twenty nine to thirteen,
I got no TV.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I mean maybe one. You know. Contrast that, and I
was out there a lot. It wasn't like you know,
it was all I was mailing it.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
In and uh, you know, contrast that with there was
a guy last year the names that was working with somebody,
and his name got mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I don't even watch golf on TV hardly. His name
I mentioned five front time.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So I understand how somebody would go, who's this guy
with this accent? This is what a New Orleans accent
sounds like. In case people think this is from New York.
People from New York. I spend a decent.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Amount of time on Long Island. They know I'm not
from New York.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So I'm from Connecticut. Brian, I knew very quickly that
was not New York.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
This is a accent for people that don't know what
a port accent is. Looking up, you know, there's a
little Boston, New York and New Orleans. Because all the
guys working on the ships.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But the interesting thing about about the golf teaching industry
right now is you could become well known completely outside
because of social media.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You could be well known completely.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Outside of all the traditional You could not teach any
tour players. You could not have ever written a book,
have an article published, even have a video that somebody
can buy.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
There are people way up a list that if you
ask me, and I consider myself like super knowledgeable in
the subject that nobody else cares about, which is what
does everybody else teach?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, I think I can.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Go work at most people's golf school of Mara as
a you know, a fill in, you know, as.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
A third range and tea stair stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
There is a there's a definitely disconnect in this industry
from like, you know, the consumer to the teachers because
it's one of the bigger industries in the world that's
not covered.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
There's like no coverage, you know, Like I just.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Read it's actually super uh. I think it's very much
in parallel to the golf fitness and rehab space. Like
I can't tell you how many people, you know, I've
been doing this for, you know, over well over a
decade at this point. You know, I didn't you know,
I didn't start with any big names or anything like that. Right,
kind of work my way up, you know, shovel and
you know, whoever would, whoever would, whoever would give me
(06:05):
the time of day, right and kind of you earn
your reps and you get you're in your stripes that way, right,
and but yeah, to your point, I mean along the way,
I mean you see, you know, and I think this
is probably this is a really cool I think jump
off topic for today is you know, for the average
golfer listening, you know, in the fitness world, you know,
I'm adamant about like you don't go work with somebody
(06:26):
unless they're going to assess you, unless they're going to
give you a plan, unless they're going to reassess you,
and be like a stickler to say, hey did this
actually work? Like, don't not? Did it feel better? Did
it actually cause some objective improvement? Right?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So it's it runs rampant in the golf fitness world.
I've made some people not uh, the best of friends
just by pointing like, hey, this is the science is
that we did. We did an eight week study with
you know, a hundred people. This is these are the numbers,
like not like, hey, this is I can't I'm not
going to tell you this is the data. Sorry, this
is just what it says. In the golf and instructural space,
(07:00):
it's very similar, like how would you advise somebody listening
right now, who's like wants to get better at the game.
Maybe they're not where they want to be, Like to
find somebody like yourself and to and to kind of
sift through the somebody maybe who is is well known
just because of something that isn't necessarily I guess proven
(07:21):
if that's for lack of a better word, no.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I like that. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You know if you did a search, right, if you
that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
By the way, why you have a podcast? If you
did a Google search, like who's the best live lesson teacher?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I might be the only person who even like mentions that, right,
Like if I'm going to get your body work done,
like massage that you know, not just a massage, but
bodywork isn't that shouldn't it shouldn't the evaluation be on
(08:06):
the how good that the person actually did doing that
and not there I'm a list They're on or what
famous person that they got to, you know, fix the neck.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It is like who does the best body work.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
But in my business, it's not about that, because it's
much easier to become well known some other way than
actually just blowing everybody away with golf lessons.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I remember one time, well not one time, but like
five hundred times. But one time, one of the five
hundred times that in front of people, I said we
should have like some sort of a national or world
teach off, I was laughed out of the room, like
imagine that, Well, you mean imagine that. I just watched
American Idol last night. I got to set the background.
(08:54):
I was in music, you know, before I was in golf.
That's the greatest thing that ever happened to singers. If
you're a good singer, you could be not even in
a damn band. You just Kelly Clarkson just was a
karaokee queen. She star in music. She's got her own
damn talk show. Doesn't even have anything to do with
music more or less. So they don't have that for teaching.
(09:17):
And if you search it just I want to get
a good golf lesson, you're not even gonna come.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Up with anything.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Maybe aile start helping people out with something like that,
But really all you can do is cross check some things.
But I would suggest this if you really were on
a mission to answer your question right, figure out who's
pissing people off, because there's probably either one or two
(09:46):
reasons why they are. Either it is because they're terrible
and they have a big mouth, or they're good. They
don't even have to have a big mouth. And that's
kind of how this industry works. You're gonna get the
people are gonna get moded based on how many phone
calls the person doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Promoting doesn't want to get. Yeah, just think about that.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Now, my best friend in the business bought a damn
new launch monitor for his studio, a million studio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And he's already got a track man. So now track
Man has an indoor unit called the io.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
He puts up on his website or you know, social
media that hey, look at here's the io in the
studio he got. Lu's with people at like anti track Man.
People who wants these phone calls?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Nobody.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So if you're looking under a rock for a good
golf teacher, you might want to look under the rocks
that say, everybody else.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Don't like them, that might be the first place I
would look.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And it's funny to say that we had this is
probably back in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, we did a
study looking I won't mention the training speed training eight companies,
but we did a study looking at We actually had
partnered with them to do it. Unbeknownst to me at
this time, they actually hadn't done their own research yet,
which was Oopsie's. But they sent you know, all the
(11:11):
sticks down and we broke it up into you know,
until we had a control group, and we had a
couple other different groups looking at different protocols and volumes,
and lo and behold, we found that the company is
a They sell three sticks. And what we found is basically,
if you used one stick and you swung it a
third of the time, you actually got the same statistical
results as if you did all three. So it was like, well,
(11:31):
that's a no brainer, don't swing three times as much
as you need to and maybe just use one stick, right,
and so lo and behold, that didn't go over well.
Even so we did a follow up study and you know, basically,
same same result. And so basically the recommendation was like, look,
put less stress on your body and if you're ready
for speed based training and you want to increase clubs
(11:52):
ped this would be the recommended protocol. H So fast forward,
I guess now three four years. If you look at
all their current protocols, they are all the current the
protocols that we found from those study, no mention of us,
but we did get ceasing desist, which was interesting and fun.
So but to your point, you know, if you if
(12:13):
you look under you know, if you have people in
the industry, I think it's in our space as well
as in the instructional space who are ruffling feathers a
little bit, who are looking at hey, let's let's look
at doing it a little bit different. Let'sok at actually getting
results that sometimes. Yeah, that's that's where you find the truth.
But let me ask you, Brian, so talk to us
to a listener, like when somebody likes say they come
(12:35):
to you for a lesson, like how do you how
do you approach somebody coming to you, you know as
as a newbie, like first time you met somebody, how
do you come out?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'll give you a great example.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So my last lesson today is a young lady who
is a senior in high school and already.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Has a college scholarship, so good player.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And says that she really has and had lessons before.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Okay, that's say that's true. I'm not saying it's not
not saying you couldn't.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
There's Xander Sharfley, right, his dad taught him, got them
all the way to the damn PGA Tour.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
There's plenty of uh Asian golfers who same same sort
of thing. Okay, so let's let's take that all at it.
Probably why why would he make that up? Okay, So
she's gonna come in here to the studio.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
It's a studio studio lesson, and I already saw a
video of her.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's it's it's uh, she's you know, they sent me
some video. It's not ideal stuff. It's good.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
She's got a lot of physical ability. Okay, you know,
hit some shots. Which shot do you like to hit?
You know, I'm pretty much like to hit the like
to hit a draw.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
But the ball's not drawn right now, it's overdrawn.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Whatever fixing golf swings for me, it's the easiest thing
I do. So if all I have to do is
take that young lady and take her miss away and
give her a little no house and see why that
ball's doing that overdrawing. This is why, like I would
be a multi trillionaire, not billionaire. I want to do
(14:15):
a new song. I want to be a trillionaire. Uh,
that's that's that's not the reality of most golf lessons
because the dirty little secret is is that you have
what the person's doing right, and then if the man
upstairs came down and said, this is the ideal pattern
(14:37):
and by pattern I mean grip set up there the.
Speaker 8 (14:41):
Way they swing for this person, there is no book,
there is no measurement, there is no coach, There is
nobody that knows.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What that pattern is.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Okay, and that pattern may change, right talking about probably
a seventeen eighteen year old girl whose body when she's
twenty five could be different. It probably will be, definitely,
So that's the hard part. Now, Okay, this current thing
is working a certain amount, but it's not going.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
To keep working. It's already.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's why they're here because there is some issues and
she wants to go to the next level. And everybody
thinks they've got like the answer, but they don't. It's
a lie. It's a lie, folks, nobody everybody. People have
mostly is a method. They have a swing they like,
and they're gonna teach you that swing. And you know what,
(15:44):
they're gonna be pretty good at teaching you that swing,
just like the guy at the Buick dealership is going
to know when I drive my Enclave in there and
there's little some little rattle, they know there's another one
of those enclaves. You know, the universal joint is bad
on the eclaves. Even a look at it, they're already
going to the parks department. So there is some advantage
(16:06):
of working with a Mathea teacher. But I don't really
have I have things I like because historically I got
a whole bunch of golf books here that have pictures
all the way back to Whindy wore tweet coach.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
There are certain things that ain't being taught right now.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
By the way that the Hall of Fame is full
of people that do it, so it must work to
some extent, and I'm just going to dig right in
and get to it. I've heard people like say, you
have to do a long interview. People have no idea
what they're talking about. Interview them for what they're paying me.
Two hundred dollars an hour for a junior's three hundred
(16:42):
for an adult. What about interviewing them for It's like
if you tell people all the time, if you go
get a haircut and supercuts, you take a picture of
a young man like you, nice looking guy with good hair,
and you say, see this hair is too long.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I got a haircut today, by the way, I want to.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Look like you right here, and they and they do
that best job to do it. If you go to
like Nike Rusio or some famous guy that's four hundred
dollars for a haircut, or he cuts Bill Clinton's hair,
you do not tell that person what he did.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
He tells you what we're gonna do face.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
He goes, you look a lot better if you lost thirty.
But here's what we here's how we're going to frame
your face. What industry are you in?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Right?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I mean they might ask some questions like that, So
obviously I'm gonna look at this little girl differently than
some a lady who's playing with her friends and wants
to play with her husband or whatever that is. She
might have tour. She looks like she has a tour body,
she might have tour level ability, and I'm always looking
(17:47):
the easiest thing to do is just fix her right
there than an ask so she hits it better, But like,
how do how do you do that with a with
an idea that the future well, not a plan, but
just just a nod to the fact that we're trying
to get to the tour.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And everybody's the next junior tournament.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
That's why I don't teach that many juniors because O'Brien,
he's going to change your swing. Well, if you can't
beat me, and I play once a week and I'm
sixty two years old, and I would fail every single screen,
you do not gonna be a very good college player.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
So you probably need to see something just like exactly
seeing you for.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
My body, you would go, wow, you know it's I'm
watching you hit balls here and it looks pretty good,
but like, you can't even lift a ten pound bar
bell over the back of head, So how good are
you going to be when I get finished? You'd be
like excited about it because it's just like me looking
at somebody who has the physical ability but has bad technique.
(18:46):
You looking at somebody that already can make a golf
swing and hit a golf ball and put a score
on the board to some extent, and I'm just like
as far out of shape as you could possibly be.
And you would say, man, I'm finished with you, and
you're gonna You're gonna scare somebody. So it's don't don't
think that you can go get a golf lesson then
get better, because somebody's just gonna say, you know, swing
(19:07):
easiest ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You're gonna have to change something.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
It might just be your practice habits, but mostly it's
gonna be technique.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And what about for like obviously we're talking about this
the girl you're going to see later today, what about
for somebody who's who is sixty two or you know,
fifty sixties, Like yeah, so what what about with those guys?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Their bodies have changed obviously since they were seventeen. Maybe
they have surgical issue, Like when you run into something,
how do you I guess, I mean frame this in
the intelligent way when you have.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Somebody, I don't want to decide what they can do
and what they can do what they can't, Like, yeah, basically,
how do you decide when you got somebody say hey,
that like he can't get to his lead side, and
there's it's like, I'm not changing that, so I got
to work around it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Versus Hey, I think we can get too that side.
He's not doing it right now, but that's something that
we can work on. How do you how do you
make those distinctions? You know for people?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
This this will be the most interesting answer this whole podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So My best friend in the.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Business sometimes business partner Michael Jacobs, who's ahead of me
on the list now right number eight, works with Patrick Carrington,
has a really good bonus calling me right now.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
He's used to being able to this time. He started
working with a guy you've probably.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Heard of about six years ago named Thomas Myers. Tom
Myers body right.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He's been the twenty four dissections. That's awesome. He's single
and driven. Talking about Mike, you.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
You could quiz him on the body and would be
shocked if you have some sort of I don't know,
but I mean I'm sure you might have some kind
of degree.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
He has no degree. He just picked the right guy
to learn under. And he can watch me walk across
the floor. He can do a regular he's got a
three D body scanner.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
He does actual physical that. We have two major winners
meeting me and him. There no names, two major winners
a little bit older that are coming to see us
at his studio at the first of April here in
twenty twenty four, and he's going to physically evaluate him.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He's already got me getting pictures from them. I'm in
different poses. So okay, so and I think it's great.
I don't know any I know this is a hypertheno eminence.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I know I have the infraspinata somewhere in my shoulder area,
but it might not be. I know nothing, but I'm
sort of an idious savant. I have never had any problem.
Look at that a golfer maybe taking the club and
trying to move into a position, watching him swing and
(22:07):
figuring out.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Okay, this, this, this, and this they ain't doing with
that particular body they have right now. I ain't even
gonna try to get him to do it.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I'm gonna design a swing that has We've got swing
a no good.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I'm thinking about this.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Guy, particular guy right here, uh, eighty one year old
guy just shot his age last week for the first time.
So I started teaching him. I guess about a year ago.
Speaker 10 (22:39):
So he got the body in front of you and
the golfer in front of you, and then there's this
thing that I could do with your swing definitely can't
do with him and his crappy movie was making and
bad ideas he got from a couple other teachers.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And I just jumped right in.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
So here's the number one thing you don't do the club,
doesn't you know, swivel and swing through the ball. You're
kind of holding it off to the point where it
was like shoveling the ball out as a target. This
is the first thing we're going to work on. It's
going to feel like crud, but let's go. In other words,
there's nothing. I didn't think he can make a long backswing,
(23:15):
so I don't try to get him to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
He's not the guy that's going to be able to
play from flextion.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So I didn't try to do In other ways, I
have no idea why I know I can walk on
that drum set right then.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You can put on anything in the radio and I
could play it.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I just I'm an idiot savant when it comes to
not doing anything trying to.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Get people to do stuff they can't do because.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
To me, half the fun in my job is figuring out, oh, okay,
this guy can't take the club back even like waist high,
and that's why can't you take him back ways? Well,
I have a frozen shoulder, So I'm not going to
give that guy drills to try to get the club
up for or do speed training.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm just gonna say, okay.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
With that backswing in that body, here's the best way
we should try at least to hit a golf ball.
And if that works, great, Now I just keep working
towards that. If it doesn't work, I'll come up with something.
There's a million ways they hit, a trillion ways they
hit a golf ball, and one of the fun things
for me is designing something around that particular person's physical limitation.
(24:24):
Even though poor Brian doesn't do any screenings and doesn't
know anything about any of that and doesn't want to
just I'm always able to do. Now a message teacher, hmm,
they got a problem, right, because they're gonna have to
figure out if this person somehow They're gonna have to
if they not intuitively know that that guy I'm talking
about can't get into a certain position.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Or can't do a left anchor whatever the hell that is. Swing.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know, I've seen all these tests, you know where
they measure forearms and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Just they just swing. It's there's not enough time in
the day here.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Holden was right, you've got you've got mechanical issues.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Let's get to them, and and and whatever you do.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Golf teachers, if there's any golf teachers out there, don't
hurt anybody from.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
What you got in.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Front of you is an eighty one year old guy
who was a low handicapper's old life, and not you know,
Victor Hoblin.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You mean you got to teach those two people differently.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yes, Yeah, he's an interesting he's an interesting cat.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Right, He's he's on like his seventh teacher and uh,
at some point he's going to push the wrong button. Right,
But I think what that says is he's he's of
the generation where if you started right now, just you
(25:52):
just got interested in golf. I've got a ridiculous amount
of equipment in the studio that has nothing to do
with golf.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's just me running my business.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I've got I'm talking to you through a road podcaster.
I've got an a ten Mini extreme ICEO over here
that's got seven thousand buttons, and then I got eight
monitors in the here, I got lights.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I taught myself all this stuff.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Okay, so somebody could just say, you know what, you
pick up? Basketball ain't working out anymore. I'm sore every day.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
This golf thing. I got a bunch of friends at play.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I'm gonna get a little set of clubs and I'm
gonna go to drive ry and try to figure.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It out for myself.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You can learn a ton on the internet for free.
I'm doing a series right now, one hundred Golf Essentials,
And I had somebody text me and go, well, how
did you know there was one hundred?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I just made up a number.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Bro. I could do thou golf Essentials, but one hundred
sounded like a marketable thing.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Right, Videos like normally.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
A social media videos like two minutes right, used to
be a limited Twitter. These are like twenty five minute
videos like on the left hand grip. You know, just
like there's so much, but I'm not saying that's the
only information.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is a bunch and he's the first generation to hobbling again.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Talking about here that that he's coming in knowing you
know probably as much as some of the teachers do,
so like he's probably a little harder to fake out,
and he also probably has.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
A little better I've run out.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Of information with this guy meeting, and if all he's
trying to do is gather information, then he needs to
keep going to people.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I've seen the list of people he's worked with. I
can give him another list of another too.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
So for the regular people, I think that's that's also
not a bad idea if the current If your current
teacher is not helping you, and you've given him or
her a.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Fair shot, dump them. I get fired. There's two kinds
of students in my business.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Those who have fired you and those who are gonna
fire you. Will come back, but they're all gonna fire
you at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I don't give a damn you. Jack Broute teaching Nicholas,
that's amazing. He went to Phil Rodgers to learn the
short game.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I'm pretty sure Jack Grout taught him how to hit
a big shot in the bunker shot when he was
like eleven, But at some point, when Jack Brout was
still on this planet, he went to Phil Rogers for
short game.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So there you go. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, so I guess Brian, let's to uh to kind
of wrap up what's one I guess one kind of
party if you had to kind of put your all
your years of experience and kind of give everybody listening
here kind of an idea of Yeah, I think particularly
around finding the instructor for them, like what what would
be kind of one piece of advice or or kind
of thought that you want to leave people with when
(28:45):
when identifying, you know, who is somebody that's actually going
to be able to help them versus someone who they
they need to they need to be the first golfer
and fire them then and go find somebody else.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
At the end of the day, that this is a
people job. You got real people, and if you don't
think you're going to get along with the cat you're
hiring to teaching, probably not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So there's enough. If somebody doesn't.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Have anything on social media now, I wouldn't even take
a lesson from I mean very obviously. It's the world
we live in now, and you get a kind of
stay if you watch a couple of videos from somebody,
you get sort of a feel for their personality, right,
you go like it's loud mouthed man's Alla guy, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Not my company.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
You can't teach everybody anyway, So that would be one
of the things.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The other thing would be.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Ideas that they are expousing on what they think a
golf swing should should be.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Does it make any sense, doesn't have any you know,
historical There's two guys I can think of right now,
no names.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
They're teaching a move that I would have a tough
time founding, like in two hundred books here here and
on the other side of this wall. I can't find
anybody doing this move, but every well known on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And one guy's got a line around the corner. And
it's like.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
If if Nicholas and Arnold Palmer and Byron Nelson and
Ben Hogan and Sam Stei, none of them did anything
like this, Why am.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I doing this? Tiger didn't do it in two thousand?
Why am I doing this?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
You got me and and and beware of teachers that
aren't flexible. Yeah when when when stack until first got
well known? And just I'm friends with Andy Plummer, but
you know we weren't always like on perfect term.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So I had a couple because I have a golfing.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Machine background, people would call me and say, can you
give me a stack until lesson?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
If somebody called me right now they say, could you
teach me to Jorge Gangus lay down move, I'd have
to go rinse my mouth out, would scope first.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But I would answer it. Yes, you want to do it.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
You're playing a part in the movie off somebody that
does the lay down move. I'll teach it to you
and not guaranteeing any success, but you know what I mean,
that's the easiest if somebody told me what they wanted
them to do. Don't beware of those kind of teachers.
You want somebody flexible enough that you can, you know,
like together, go on this search for your best move,
(31:39):
because it's going to be it's going to take a
long you know. I'm not saying you need a million
lessons from anybody. People call you all the time and
say how many lessons is gonna take?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I don't know. Two would be.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Better than none, Yeah, right, the two hundred.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Would be better. Tiger has a lesson tomorrow, so probably you're.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Probably never going to learn everything you need to know,
but you know that that's another one. And the last
one would be if they've never developed anybody where you know,
is it got to be some if they've worked with
three or four or five hundred juniors and none of
them made it to like any tour.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Or maybe just one of them.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Has you go like, how many times have you had
like how many years have.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
You had three hundred juniors in your program? Well twenty years?
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Well, shoot, the guys that were fifteen now they have
thirty five. They're all selling all state insurance, like none
of them the next level.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
If you do do a.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Little background information, it's pretty easy to find. And it's
just like if you look at for a fitness guy,
you know that, do you do your homework and if
you're really like I think I know who I want
to work with, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You probably have lots of people come.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
See you one time and they just don't like the message,
they don't like the messenger or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
There's there's just too many golfers out there for you.
Speaker 12 (33:04):
To be the working doing the body with everybody that
never plays golfing and fifty million golfers and I can't
give all those lessons either.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
So you got to find somebody and listen at the
end of the day, you're hiring somebody to build a house.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
They have to like building houses.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I remember that that that's really passionate about what they do,
and they'll do a good job for you. Even if
they don't really have the know how, they'll they'll they'll
find the know how because.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They'll want to help you for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
We awesome, Brian, Thank you so much for coming on.
Hopefully you guys enjoyed that today. That is a lot,
a lot of nuggets there in terms of finding, you know,
the person to help you get to where you want
to be. And hopefully Brian was able to diffuse a
little false a few false beliefs, few bombs that may
have blown up in your face on your journey to
getting better by being able to hopefully avoid picking the
(33:59):
wrong structors for yourself. So, Brian, can you just if
people want to get in touch with you, follow you?
I know you're all over. Where's the best place for
them to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
On the socials? You know add Brian Manzelo on most
of them.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Postmodern Golf is Me and Michael Jacobs's Facebook group.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You know about fifty five hundred golf pros and fitness
pros and regular golfers, twenty five handicappers on there.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
You just ask for an invite, well, you know, send
just Postmodern Golf and Brianmanzeli.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Golf dot com is my website. If you want to
contact me, call me anytime.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Awesome guys, all right, so we'll make sure to put
those into show notes for all you guys too. Brian,
thanks so much for hanging out with us. It's glass
having you on. We'll definitely have to have you on
again sometime soon, sure,
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for S Golf. Welcome to the
Golf Fitness Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is Chris Finn.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm your host, and I'm here today joined by a
pretty exciting guest. If you don't know Brian Manzela, let
me tell you a little bit about him, because we're
lucky to have him with us on the pod today.
He's the thirteenth ranked teacher in America and Golf Digests
you fifty best Teachers in America for twenty four to
twenty five. It's a sixth consecutive time in the top fifty,
(00:35):
so I think the goat list is coming soon. He's
seven time current Golf Magazine Top Hunter Teacher in America.
He's a thirty four year member of the PGA of America.
He was also the twenty thirteen PGA Golf State Section
Teacher of the Year in the PGA Kentucky Section Teacher
of the Year in two thousand and three, and the
list goes on and on and on. All that said
(00:57):
to say, we are with a with us. Brian Mizella
is a very renowned golf instructor, just one of the
great minds of the game, has helped tons of people,
particularly at the highest of high levels.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Brian, welcome to the pod because I didn't have you man.
Awesome to be on with you and right ready to
talk some golf. Absolutely, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So just for I would like to start, just in
case someone has been living under rock and they don't
know who you are, haven't heard of you? You know,
what can you give kind of just a little bit
of a you know, brief Yeah, how did you get
to where you are?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
All that stuff?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You know? Yeah, that But basically I've been I've been
teaching for forty one years.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
It'll be I guess it turns into forty two. Here
the first Tuesday in June, because that's that's how I
got started doing the junior clinic right up the street
here at a big golf facility City Park in New Orleans,
and they just said, hey, you know, go across the
(02:01):
street and do the junior junior clinic. And then there
were a bunch of little kids with running noses and
mamas with with you know, pushing a pushing a new
baby around in the stroller. So, uh, I got into
some of my accident and what I've done again for
the people that don't know who the hell I am is.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I had to go being the number one guy. When
I started, I said I want to be the best
at something. It was a business that I didn't realize
that I had a little aptitude for.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
When I found out I did, I went, well, hey,
I can start somewhere in the middle. And uh uh
and and you know the thing about uh, let's just say,
what makes the guy who's listening to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That's probably an avid golfer.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Right that if they're on your podcast and that's some
other person they and they haven't heard of me, it's
because they don't read the magazines.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Or on social media, right.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
So I mean, there's there's there's a bunch of ways
to get your name out there. Uh. The easiest ones
that is, is to tease somebody that wins, like, you know,
like a month of tournaments and have your name mentioned
on TV five hundred times. But the fun does that
does help really doled out very that's not really doled
out very fairly. You know, the you know I worked
(03:23):
with I've still consider myself one of you know, the
guys that works with David Thoms and I've.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Been working with him since he was at LSU.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
And the last really good run we had, which was
like i'd say, like nine about thirteen, twenty nine to thirteen,
I got no TV.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I mean maybe one. You know. Contrast that, and I
was out there a lot. It wasn't like you know,
it was all I was mailing it.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
In and uh, you know, contrast that with there was
a guy last year the names that was working with somebody,
and his name got mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I don't even watch golf on TV hardly. His name
I mentioned five front time.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So I understand how somebody would go, who's this guy
with this accent? This is what a New Orleans accent
sounds like. In case people think this is from New York.
People from New York. I spend a decent.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Amount of time on Long Island. They know I'm not
from New York.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So I'm from Connecticut. Brian, I knew very quickly that
was not New York.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
This is a accent for people that don't know what
a port accent is. Looking up, you know, there's a
little Boston, New York and New Orleans. Because all the
guys working on the ships.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But the interesting thing about about the golf teaching industry
right now is you could become well known completely outside
because of social media.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You could be well known completely.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Outside of all the traditional You could not teach any
tour players. You could not have ever written a book,
have an article published, even have a video that somebody
can buy.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
There are people way up a list that if you
ask me, and I consider myself like super knowledgeable in
the subject that nobody else cares about, which is what
does everybody else teach?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, I think I can.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Go work at most people's golf school of Mara as
a you know, a fill in, you know, as.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
A third range and tea stair stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
There is a there's a definitely disconnect in this industry
from like, you know, the consumer to the teachers because
it's one of the bigger industries in the world that's
not covered.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
There's like no coverage, you know, Like I just.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Read it's actually super uh. I think it's very much
in parallel to the golf fitness and rehab space. Like
I can't tell you how many people, you know, I've
been doing this for, you know, over well over a
decade at this point. You know, I didn't you know,
I didn't start with any big names or anything like that. Right,
kind of work my way up, you know, shovel and
you know, whoever would, whoever would, whoever would give me
(06:05):
the time of day, right and kind of you earn
your reps and you get you're in your stripes that way, right,
and but yeah, to your point, I mean along the way,
I mean you see, you know, and I think this
is probably this is a really cool I think jump
off topic for today is you know, for the average
golfer listening, you know, in the fitness world, you know,
I'm adamant about like you don't go work with somebody
(06:26):
unless they're going to assess you, unless they're going to
give you a plan, unless they're going to reassess you,
and be like a stickler to say, hey did this
actually work? Like, don't not? Did it feel better? Did
it actually cause some objective improvement? Right?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So it's it runs rampant in the golf fitness world.
I've made some people not uh, the best of friends
just by pointing like, hey, this is the science is
that we did. We did an eight week study with
you know, a hundred people. This is these are the numbers,
like not like, hey, this is I can't I'm not
going to tell you this is the data. Sorry, this
is just what it says. In the golf and instructural space,
(07:00):
it's very similar, like how would you advise somebody listening
right now, who's like wants to get better at the game.
Maybe they're not where they want to be, Like to
find somebody like yourself and to and to kind of
sift through the somebody maybe who is is well known
just because of something that isn't necessarily I guess proven
(07:21):
if that's for lack of a better word, no.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I like that. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You know if you did a search, right, if you
that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
By the way, why you have a podcast? If you
did a Google search, like who's the best live lesson teacher?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I might be the only person who even like mentions that, right,
Like if I'm going to get your body work done,
like massage that you know, not just a massage, but
bodywork isn't that shouldn't it shouldn't the evaluation be on
(08:06):
the how good that the person actually did doing that
and not there I'm a list They're on or what
famous person that they got to, you know, fix the neck.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It is like who does the best body work.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
But in my business, it's not about that, because it's
much easier to become well known some other way than
actually just blowing everybody away with golf lessons.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I remember one time, well not one time, but like
five hundred times. But one time, one of the five
hundred times that in front of people, I said we
should have like some sort of a national or world
teach off, I was laughed out of the room, like
imagine that, Well, you mean imagine that. I just watched
American Idol last night. I got to set the background.
(08:54):
I was in music, you know, before I was in golf.
That's the greatest thing that ever happened to singers. If
you're a good singer, you could be not even in
a damn band. You just Kelly Clarkson just was a
karaokee queen. She star in music. She's got her own
damn talk show. Doesn't even have anything to do with
music more or less. So they don't have that for teaching.
(09:17):
And if you search it just I want to get
a good golf lesson, you're not even gonna come.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Up with anything.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Maybe aile start helping people out with something like that,
But really all you can do is cross check some things.
But I would suggest this if you really were on
a mission to answer your question right, figure out who's
pissing people off, because there's probably either one or two
(09:46):
reasons why they are. Either it is because they're terrible
and they have a big mouth, or they're good. They
don't even have to have a big mouth. And that's
kind of how this industry works. You're gonna get the
people are gonna get moded based on how many phone
calls the person doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Promoting doesn't want to get. Yeah, just think about that.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Now, my best friend in the business bought a damn
new launch monitor for his studio, a million studio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And he's already got a track man. So now track
Man has an indoor unit called the io.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
He puts up on his website or you know, social
media that hey, look at here's the io in the
studio he got. Lu's with people at like anti track Man.
People who wants these phone calls?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Nobody.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So if you're looking under a rock for a good
golf teacher, you might want to look under the rocks
that say, everybody else.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Don't like them, that might be the first place I
would look.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And it's funny to say that we had this is
probably back in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, we did a
study looking I won't mention the training speed training eight companies,
but we did a study looking at We actually had
partnered with them to do it. Unbeknownst to me at
this time, they actually hadn't done their own research yet,
which was Oopsie's. But they sent you know, all the
(11:11):
sticks down and we broke it up into you know,
until we had a control group, and we had a
couple other different groups looking at different protocols and volumes,
and lo and behold, we found that the company is
a They sell three sticks. And what we found is basically,
if you used one stick and you swung it a
third of the time, you actually got the same statistical
results as if you did all three. So it was like, well,
(11:31):
that's a no brainer, don't swing three times as much
as you need to and maybe just use one stick, right,
and so lo and behold, that didn't go over well.
Even so we did a follow up study and you know, basically,
same same result. And so basically the recommendation was like, look,
put less stress on your body and if you're ready
for speed based training and you want to increase clubs
(11:52):
ped this would be the recommended protocol. H So fast forward,
I guess now three four years. If you look at
all their current protocols, they are all the current the
protocols that we found from those study, no mention of us,
but we did get ceasing desist, which was interesting and fun.
So but to your point, you know, if you if
(12:13):
you look under you know, if you have people in
the industry, I think it's in our space as well
as in the instructional space who are ruffling feathers a
little bit, who are looking at hey, let's let's look
at doing it a little bit different. Let'sok at actually getting
results that sometimes. Yeah, that's that's where you find the truth.
But let me ask you, Brian, so talk to us
to a listener, like when somebody likes say they come
(12:35):
to you for a lesson, like how do you how
do you approach somebody coming to you, you know as
as a newbie, like first time you met somebody, how
do you come out?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'll give you a great example.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So my last lesson today is a young lady who
is a senior in high school and already.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Has a college scholarship, so good player.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And says that she really has and had lessons before.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Okay, that's say that's true. I'm not saying it's not
not saying you couldn't.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
There's Xander Sharfley, right, his dad taught him, got them
all the way to the damn PGA Tour.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
There's plenty of uh Asian golfers who same same sort
of thing. Okay, so let's let's take that all at it.
Probably why why would he make that up? Okay, So
she's gonna come in here to the studio.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
It's a studio studio lesson, and I already saw a
video of her.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's it's it's uh, she's you know, they sent me
some video. It's not ideal stuff. It's good.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
She's got a lot of physical ability. Okay, you know,
hit some shots. Which shot do you like to hit?
You know, I'm pretty much like to hit the like
to hit a draw.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
But the ball's not drawn right now, it's overdrawn.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Whatever fixing golf swings for me, it's the easiest thing
I do. So if all I have to do is
take that young lady and take her miss away and
give her a little no house and see why that
ball's doing that overdrawing. This is why, like I would
be a multi trillionaire, not billionaire. I want to do
(14:15):
a new song. I want to be a trillionaire. Uh,
that's that's that's not the reality of most golf lessons
because the dirty little secret is is that you have
what the person's doing right, and then if the man
upstairs came down and said, this is the ideal pattern
(14:37):
and by pattern I mean grip set up there the.
Speaker 8 (14:41):
Way they swing for this person, there is no book,
there is no measurement, there is no coach, There is
nobody that knows.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What that pattern is.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Okay, and that pattern may change, right talking about probably
a seventeen eighteen year old girl whose body when she's
twenty five could be different. It probably will be, definitely,
So that's the hard part. Now, Okay, this current thing
is working a certain amount, but it's not going.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
To keep working. It's already.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's why they're here because there is some issues and
she wants to go to the next level. And everybody
thinks they've got like the answer, but they don't. It's
a lie. It's a lie, folks, nobody everybody. People have
mostly is a method. They have a swing they like,
and they're gonna teach you that swing. And you know what,
(15:44):
they're gonna be pretty good at teaching you that swing,
just like the guy at the Buick dealership is going
to know when I drive my Enclave in there and
there's little some little rattle, they know there's another one
of those enclaves. You know, the universal joint is bad
on the eclaves. Even a look at it, they're already
going to the parks department. So there is some advantage
(16:06):
of working with a Mathea teacher. But I don't really
have I have things I like because historically I got
a whole bunch of golf books here that have pictures
all the way back to Whindy wore tweet coach.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
There are certain things that ain't being taught right now.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
By the way that the Hall of Fame is full
of people that do it, so it must work to
some extent, and I'm just going to dig right in
and get to it. I've heard people like say, you
have to do a long interview. People have no idea
what they're talking about. Interview them for what they're paying me.
Two hundred dollars an hour for a junior's three hundred
(16:42):
for an adult. What about interviewing them for It's like
if you tell people all the time, if you go
get a haircut and supercuts, you take a picture of
a young man like you, nice looking guy with good hair,
and you say, see this hair is too long.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I got a haircut today, by the way, I want to.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Look like you right here, and they and they do
that best job to do it. If you go to
like Nike Rusio or some famous guy that's four hundred
dollars for a haircut, or he cuts Bill Clinton's hair,
you do not tell that person what he did.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
He tells you what we're gonna do face.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
He goes, you look a lot better if you lost thirty.
But here's what we here's how we're going to frame
your face. What industry are you in?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Right?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I mean they might ask some questions like that, So
obviously I'm gonna look at this little girl differently than
some a lady who's playing with her friends and wants
to play with her husband or whatever that is. She
might have tour. She looks like she has a tour body,
she might have tour level ability, and I'm always looking
(17:47):
the easiest thing to do is just fix her right
there than an ask so she hits it better, But like,
how do how do you do that with a with
an idea that the future well, not a plan, but
just just a nod to the fact that we're trying
to get to the tour.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And everybody's the next junior tournament.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
That's why I don't teach that many juniors because O'Brien,
he's going to change your swing. Well, if you can't
beat me, and I play once a week and I'm
sixty two years old, and I would fail every single screen,
you do not gonna be a very good college player.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
So you probably need to see something just like exactly
seeing you for.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
My body, you would go, wow, you know it's I'm
watching you hit balls here and it looks pretty good,
but like, you can't even lift a ten pound bar
bell over the back of head, So how good are
you going to be when I get finished? You'd be
like excited about it because it's just like me looking
at somebody who has the physical ability but has bad technique.
(18:46):
You looking at somebody that already can make a golf
swing and hit a golf ball and put a score
on the board to some extent, and I'm just like
as far out of shape as you could possibly be.
And you would say, man, I'm finished with you, and
you're gonna You're gonna scare somebody. So it's don't don't
think that you can go get a golf lesson then
get better, because somebody's just gonna say, you know, swing
(19:07):
easiest ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You're gonna have to change something.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
It might just be your practice habits, but mostly it's
gonna be technique.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And what about for like obviously we're talking about this
the girl you're going to see later today, what about
for somebody who's who is sixty two or you know,
fifty sixties, Like yeah, so what what about with those guys?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Their bodies have changed obviously since they were seventeen. Maybe
they have surgical issue, Like when you run into something,
how do you I guess, I mean frame this in
the intelligent way when you have.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Somebody, I don't want to decide what they can do
and what they can do what they can't, Like, yeah, basically,
how do you decide when you got somebody say hey,
that like he can't get to his lead side, and
there's it's like, I'm not changing that, so I got
to work around it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Versus Hey, I think we can get too that side.
He's not doing it right now, but that's something that
we can work on. How do you how do you
make those distinctions? You know for people?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
This this will be the most interesting answer this whole podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So My best friend in the.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Business sometimes business partner Michael Jacobs, who's ahead of me
on the list now right number eight, works with Patrick Carrington,
has a really good bonus calling me right now.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
He's used to being able to this time. He started
working with a guy you've probably.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Heard of about six years ago named Thomas Myers. Tom
Myers body right.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He's been the twenty four dissections. That's awesome. He's single
and driven. Talking about Mike, you.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
You could quiz him on the body and would be
shocked if you have some sort of I don't know,
but I mean I'm sure you might have some kind
of degree.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
He has no degree. He just picked the right guy
to learn under. And he can watch me walk across
the floor. He can do a regular he's got a
three D body scanner.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
He does actual physical that. We have two major winners
meeting me and him. There no names, two major winners
a little bit older that are coming to see us
at his studio at the first of April here in
twenty twenty four, and he's going to physically evaluate him.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He's already got me getting pictures from them. I'm in
different poses. So okay, so and I think it's great.
I don't know any I know this is a hypertheno eminence.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I know I have the infraspinata somewhere in my shoulder area,
but it might not be. I know nothing, but I'm
sort of an idious savant. I have never had any problem.
Look at that a golfer maybe taking the club and
trying to move into a position, watching him swing and
(22:07):
figuring out.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Okay, this, this, this, and this they ain't doing with
that particular body they have right now. I ain't even
gonna try to get him to do it.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I'm gonna design a swing that has We've got swing
a no good.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I'm thinking about this.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Guy, particular guy right here, uh, eighty one year old
guy just shot his age last week for the first time.
So I started teaching him. I guess about a year ago.
Speaker 10 (22:39):
So he got the body in front of you and
the golfer in front of you, and then there's this
thing that I could do with your swing definitely can't
do with him and his crappy movie was making and
bad ideas he got from a couple other teachers.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And I just jumped right in.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
So here's the number one thing you don't do the club,
doesn't you know, swivel and swing through the ball. You're
kind of holding it off to the point where it
was like shoveling the ball out as a target. This
is the first thing we're going to work on. It's
going to feel like crud, but let's go. In other words,
there's nothing. I didn't think he can make a long backswing,
(23:15):
so I don't try to get him to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
He's not the guy that's going to be able to
play from flextion.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So I didn't try to do In other ways, I
have no idea why I know I can walk on
that drum set right then.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You can put on anything in the radio and I
could play it.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I just I'm an idiot savant when it comes to
not doing anything trying to.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Get people to do stuff they can't do because.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
To me, half the fun in my job is figuring out, oh, okay,
this guy can't take the club back even like waist high,
and that's why can't you take him back ways? Well,
I have a frozen shoulder, So I'm not going to
give that guy drills to try to get the club
up for or do speed training.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm just gonna say, okay.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
With that backswing in that body, here's the best way
we should try at least to hit a golf ball.
And if that works, great, Now I just keep working
towards that. If it doesn't work, I'll come up with something.
There's a million ways they hit, a trillion ways they
hit a golf ball, and one of the fun things
for me is designing something around that particular person's physical limitation.
(24:24):
Even though poor Brian doesn't do any screenings and doesn't
know anything about any of that and doesn't want to
just I'm always able to do. Now a message teacher, hmm,
they got a problem, right, because they're gonna have to
figure out if this person somehow They're gonna have to
if they not intuitively know that that guy I'm talking
about can't get into a certain position.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Or can't do a left anchor whatever the hell that is. Swing.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know, I've seen all these tests, you know where
they measure forearms and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Just they just swing. It's there's not enough time in
the day here.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Holden was right, you've got you've got mechanical issues.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Let's get to them, and and and whatever you do.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Golf teachers, if there's any golf teachers out there, don't
hurt anybody from.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
What you got in.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Front of you is an eighty one year old guy
who was a low handicapper's old life, and not you know,
Victor Hoblin.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You mean you got to teach those two people differently.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yes, Yeah, he's an interesting he's an interesting cat.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Right, He's he's on like his seventh teacher and uh,
at some point he's going to push the wrong button. Right,
But I think what that says is he's he's of
the generation where if you started right now, just you
(25:52):
just got interested in golf. I've got a ridiculous amount
of equipment in the studio that has nothing to do
with golf.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's just me running my business.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I've got I'm talking to you through a road podcaster.
I've got an a ten Mini extreme ICEO over here
that's got seven thousand buttons, and then I got eight
monitors in the here, I got lights.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I taught myself all this stuff.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Okay, so somebody could just say, you know what, you
pick up? Basketball ain't working out anymore. I'm sore every day.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
This golf thing. I got a bunch of friends at play.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I'm gonna get a little set of clubs and I'm
gonna go to drive ry and try to figure.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It out for myself.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You can learn a ton on the internet for free.
I'm doing a series right now, one hundred Golf Essentials,
And I had somebody text me and go, well, how
did you know there was one hundred?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I just made up a number.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Bro. I could do thou golf Essentials, but one hundred
sounded like a marketable thing.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Right, Videos like normally.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
A social media videos like two minutes right, used to
be a limited Twitter. These are like twenty five minute
videos like on the left hand grip. You know, just
like there's so much, but I'm not saying that's the
only information.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is a bunch and he's the first generation to hobbling again.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Talking about here that that he's coming in knowing you
know probably as much as some of the teachers do,
so like he's probably a little harder to fake out,
and he also probably has.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
A little better I've run out.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Of information with this guy meeting, and if all he's
trying to do is gather information, then he needs to
keep going to people.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I've seen the list of people he's worked with. I
can give him another list of another too.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
So for the regular people, I think that's that's also
not a bad idea if the current If your current
teacher is not helping you, and you've given him or
her a.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Fair shot, dump them. I get fired. There's two kinds
of students in my business.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Those who have fired you and those who are gonna
fire you. Will come back, but they're all gonna fire
you at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I don't give a damn you. Jack Broute teaching Nicholas,
that's amazing. He went to Phil Rodgers to learn the
short game.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I'm pretty sure Jack Grout taught him how to hit
a big shot in the bunker shot when he was
like eleven, But at some point, when Jack Brout was
still on this planet, he went to Phil Rogers for
short game.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So there you go. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, so I guess Brian, let's to uh to kind
of wrap up what's one I guess one kind of
party if you had to kind of put your all
your years of experience and kind of give everybody listening
here kind of an idea of Yeah, I think particularly
around finding the instructor for them, like what what would
be kind of one piece of advice or or kind
of thought that you want to leave people with when
(28:45):
when identifying, you know, who is somebody that's actually going
to be able to help them versus someone who they
they need to they need to be the first golfer
and fire them then and go find somebody else.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
At the end of the day, that this is a
people job. You got real people, and if you don't
think you're going to get along with the cat you're
hiring to teaching, probably not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So there's enough. If somebody doesn't.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Have anything on social media now, I wouldn't even take
a lesson from I mean very obviously. It's the world
we live in now, and you get a kind of
stay if you watch a couple of videos from somebody,
you get sort of a feel for their personality, right,
you go like it's loud mouthed man's Alla guy, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Not my company.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
You can't teach everybody anyway, So that would be one
of the things.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The other thing would be.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Ideas that they are expousing on what they think a
golf swing should should be.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Does it make any sense, doesn't have any you know,
historical There's two guys I can think of right now,
no names.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
They're teaching a move that I would have a tough
time founding, like in two hundred books here here and
on the other side of this wall. I can't find
anybody doing this move, but every well known on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And one guy's got a line around the corner. And
it's like.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
If if Nicholas and Arnold Palmer and Byron Nelson and
Ben Hogan and Sam Stei, none of them did anything
like this, Why am.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I doing this? Tiger didn't do it in two thousand?
Why am I doing this?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
You got me and and and beware of teachers that
aren't flexible. Yeah when when when stack until first got
well known? And just I'm friends with Andy Plummer, but
you know we weren't always like on perfect term.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So I had a couple because I have a golfing.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Machine background, people would call me and say, can you
give me a stack until lesson?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
If somebody called me right now they say, could you
teach me to Jorge Gangus lay down move, I'd have
to go rinse my mouth out, would scope first.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But I would answer it. Yes, you want to do it.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
You're playing a part in the movie off somebody that
does the lay down move. I'll teach it to you
and not guaranteeing any success, but you know what I mean,
that's the easiest if somebody told me what they wanted
them to do. Don't beware of those kind of teachers.
You want somebody flexible enough that you can, you know,
like together, go on this search for your best move,
(31:39):
because it's going to be it's going to take a
long you know. I'm not saying you need a million
lessons from anybody. People call you all the time and
say how many lessons is gonna take?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I don't know. Two would be.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Better than none, Yeah, right, the two hundred.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Would be better. Tiger has a lesson tomorrow, so probably you're.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Probably never going to learn everything you need to know,
but you know that that's another one. And the last
one would be if they've never developed anybody where you know,
is it got to be some if they've worked with
three or four or five hundred juniors and none of
them made it to like any tour.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Or maybe just one of them.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Has you go like, how many times have you had
like how many years have.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
You had three hundred juniors in your program? Well twenty years?
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Well, shoot, the guys that were fifteen now they have
thirty five. They're all selling all state insurance, like none
of them the next level.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
If you do do a.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Little background information, it's pretty easy to find. And it's
just like if you look at for a fitness guy,
you know that, do you do your homework and if
you're really like I think I know who I want
to work with, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You probably have lots of people come.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
See you one time and they just don't like the message,
they don't like the messenger or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
There's there's just too many golfers out there for you.
Speaker 12 (33:04):
To be the working doing the body with everybody that
never plays golfing and fifty million golfers and I can't
give all those lessons either.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
So you got to find somebody and listen at the
end of the day, you're hiring somebody to build a house.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
They have to like building houses.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I remember that that that's really passionate about what they do,
and they'll do a good job for you. Even if
they don't really have the know how, they'll they'll they'll
find the know how because.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They'll want to help you for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
We awesome, Brian, Thank you so much for coming on.
Hopefully you guys enjoyed that today. That is a lot,
a lot of nuggets there in terms of finding, you know,
the person to help you get to where you want
to be. And hopefully Brian was able to diffuse a
little false a few false beliefs, few bombs that may
have blown up in your face on your journey to
getting better by being able to hopefully avoid picking the
(33:59):
wrong structors for yourself. So, Brian, can you just if
people want to get in touch with you, follow you?
I know you're all over. Where's the best place for
them to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
On the socials? You know add Brian Manzelo on most
of them.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Postmodern Golf is Me and Michael Jacobs's Facebook group.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You know about fifty five hundred golf pros and fitness
pros and regular golfers, twenty five handicappers on there.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
You just ask for an invite, well, you know, send
just Postmodern Golf and Brianmanzeli.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Golf dot com is my website. If you want to
contact me, call me anytime.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Awesome guys, all right, so we'll make sure to put
those into show notes for all you guys too. Brian,
thanks so much for hanging out with us. It's glass
having you on. We'll definitely have to have you on
again sometime soon, sure,
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