March 27, 2024 • 33 mins
Mark Immelman shares stories from his experience as a pro, coach, broadcaster, and podcast host. Mark's unique perspective has shown him the importance of a holistic approach to golf including swing mechanics, golf fitness, and the mental game.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for S Golf. Welcome to the
Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. I'm your host, Chris Finn, and
I'm excited today and honor to be joined by another
host of an amazing podcast. If you haven't heard about it,
you've probably been living under a rock. On the mark.
(00:23):
We have Mark Immlman here with us. And for those
of you who don't know, he's not just an amazing podcaster. Obviously,
you've probably seen him somewhere broadcasting, you know, some one
of the top top players in the world and giving
insights into what they're thinking and how they're doing. But
for those of you who didn't know, he's also one
hell of a player. All American for four years in college,
(00:44):
played on the tour. He's also one of the top
ten golf instructors in the state of Georgia. So if
you are anywhere around the state of Georgia, a good
guid to to potentially reach out to. But definitely, you know,
one of the the greats in the game, most notable
as well as on the you know, the the college
coaching side has been a coach, Coach of the Year twice,
just just all around, very very knowledgeable in the space.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I am honored to have you on the show. And
thanks for joining me today, Chris.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's my thrill. All I could say listening to all
of that is ain't golf grand? I mean, goodness, Grace.
We are in this really cool space that's ever evolving,
and you know, it's thanks to golf that I get
to talk to people like you. So I appreciate you having.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Me, Yeah, for sure, man, And so tell it for
any listeners who maybe don't know how you've gotten to
where you've gotten to. You know, just how did you
get into golf and how did you then go from
being a player to a coach and obviously you know
very well known now in the you know, the broadcasting
and entertainment space, just because of all the expertise that
you get, Like, how did that journey happen?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Purely accidental and largely serendipitous, I would say. Growing up
in South Africa, I was just like any young kid
a number of sports. You know, we're very outdoorsy over there.
So I played cricket and tennis in the summer, and
I played rugby in the winter, and I've never been
the biggest guy in the world. And so one rugby
(02:11):
match I got badly injured. I got my wrist broken
and I had to be it took a procedure to
get it reset, and so I just remember lying there
on the gurney ready to go into the operating theater,
and my coach came and visited and he said to
my parents and me and my groggy state, I got this.
He was like, look, Mark's too small to play a
(02:34):
rugby We're not going to do this sort of stuff anymore.
And so and look, thankfully I was. I excelled in
other sports too. And then coming back from the injury,
the one Saturday morning after I came out of the
cast and stuff, my buddies were going to the golf course.
I'm not sure why, and so they're like, come join me,
And so I looked at my dad and he said,
(02:57):
bol means there's an old set of clubs in the garage.
I was left handed, they were right handed. That was
the conundrum, and so I went in the proverbial bug bit,
and so golf sort of stuck. Then I have a
younger brother. You might have heard of him, Trevor, and
and he's nine years my junior, so at that stage
(03:17):
I was about fourteen, so he was five ish. And
my mom quickly figured that this is a great way
for babysitting, especially during the summer.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sounds like a brilliant woman two she is.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So trev would tag along to the golf course with us,
and you know, playing with teenage boys, he got good
very quick, almost like necessity is the mother of invention
kind of thing. Yeah, and just by pure athleticism, I
guess I got good and sort of winning some and
made my in South Africa provincial team and played at
(03:49):
the national championships and stuff, and it just largely progressed
from there and got to college eventually, and then college
went well, and then I turned professional after college after
being the All American winning tournaments and stuff, and I
was I turned prone so quickly. I realized that hold
(04:10):
on a second, if I want to be the best
golfer in the world and that's my goal, I can't
even beat my household consistently because my younger brother was
pipping me at the time, and this was this was
an unwelcome yet I'm thankful for it. Dose of realism,
and so I gravitated to coaching and teaching and my
(04:34):
dad told me, you know, looking back that apparently when
I was a kid, I said I wanted to be
a teacher, and so yeah, we are. I get to
teach a game that I love and moved you with.
Then I was teaching full time on the European Tour
and my old college coach called me up and he
select the golf coaching jobs, going we'd love you to interview,
and it was a way for me to and then
(04:55):
fiancee to get to the United States because it's not
as easy as they make it sound on the news.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So I came my interviewed, offered me the job, and
we moved over here to Columbus, Georgia in two thousand
and one, and heck, I'm still here. But it just
the whole thing just morphed into a place where I
did some guests announcing one time over in South Africa,
and someone realized I had a bit of a flare
for it because I bought a different angle. And then
(05:27):
looking back at it now, Chris, you know, I fell
into radio and from radio became PGA Tour Alive and
then the folks at CBS heard me there and I'm
with them. But looking back at all those days giving
hundreds of lessons in the Georgia summertime, I realized that
that was kind of my experience where it was my
(05:48):
wilderness time, if you will, and it got me. It
taught me to see the game differently, you know, see
it as an instructor slash coach, but also realized that
when you're communicating with people more than just calling you know, yeah,
balls and strikes kind of thing. And so it afforded
me a different sort of perspective, which thankfully is the
(06:10):
lane I walk in my current broadcast career. So that's
kind of the short story. You know, the podcast and
all that sort of stuff came as an offshoot of that,
but it's all been very I've lived a blessed existence.
I mean, good golf has afforded me a lot of stuff.
And I get a voice now, strangely because I'm sort
(06:33):
of known, you know, when I was being as a
golf teacher to be the number one guy. I was good.
I taught a number of really good players, but I
was never the magazine cover a guy.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, Now all of a sudden, now that I have
a microphone in front of of my face, people won
my opinion. So it's it's kind of weird, but it's
really how that works. Yeah, it's weird and cool, and
you know, looking back, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, And it's we've had a number of great destructors
on and that is a common theme that that I've
seen and even other coaches in the fitness space or
that is like there is a certain definite commonality between
In one of the episodes, we talked about how in
the social media world today, you know, you coach one
(07:18):
player and immediately some guy is the top guy, and
then you look, you know, a year and a half later,
and they don't exist anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But the true the true coaches.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And is one of the big questions we get from
listeners and people listening right now is how do I
find the right coach? How do I find somebody who
actually knows what the heck they're talking about? And we
get that both in the fitness space as well as
in the instructional space. And one of the things that
we always talk about, you know, you kind of you
talked about the hot summer days of coaching you know,
(07:49):
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of golfers, probably thousands, and
it's that you can't you can't replace experience. You can't
speed it up. Right, A lesson in our lesson takes
an hour and you got to do over and over
and over and and to your point, I think that's
one of the one of the great things I love
about listening when you're when you're on the radio or
(08:09):
TV and just listen to you commentator at the pod
is the those perspectives and those those clearly come and
I think for those of you listening when you're you're
looking at coaches and when you think about the people
you truly do enjoy of talking about the game and
analyzing the game. It's because of those many pounds of sweat,
loss in the sun coaching and learning what actually works
(08:31):
for people.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well, it's it's interesting you say that and you observe
that because the origin of my podcast, because when the
tour came to me, the PGA torn said to me,
we want you to do the show, and it was
like a magazine recap show. And after a few weeks
of getting zero downloads kind of thing, I was like man,
this is not my lane. So without their blessing, I
(08:55):
just turned it into golf instruction and I called up
the coaches and players I knew and asked them on
and quickly I realized that everyone's wanting to get better.
And it occurred to me in a moment of clarity
where I was like, you know, I was that kid
growing up in South Africa who didn't have a coach,
didn't have access to the Golf channel, got magazine sporadically,
(09:16):
I read voraciously to learn, but I never had access
to these great coaches. Yep, so reading books I could.
And then I was like, but hold in a second,
I have the opportunity with this podcast to introduce people
around the world kids like me couldn't get to coaches,
to bright minds. Then I was like, well cool, and
(09:39):
now I've got giving away for the young aspirin coach.
I think of a young Chris Finn before he became
a behemoth in the fitness industry, to shine a bright
light on a bright mind as well. And so it
was almost double timing everything. And the people that were
winning from all of this were the folks that were
just looking for good information.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
And so when you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Look at coaches. I'm I'm happy to say that my
show and yours to a large extent as well, is
just bringing an all encompassing sort of a viewpoint as
to golf improvements. And that's why I featured teachers and
players and fitness experts and psychologists and we've had you know,
neurosurgeons on you before too, because we such holistic beings
(10:22):
and and you're right, finding the right coach is difficult,
but I hope that by way of what you and
I do were opening the we opening up the lines
of communication a bit more so folks can get access
to people and realize, like, Okay, who fits the bill
when it comes to me understanding what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And I think one of my favorite parts of my
learning experience coming into the industry was I didn't play
golf until after grad school, picked it up and started
a business, and I quickly realized I wasn't a good employee,
so I had to figure out something. So I got
the bug a little later in life than you did.
But part of starting the business, nobody knew who that
(11:01):
guy was, and I went around to every single golf
coach at every single golf club in the area, and
I basically said, hey, let me, I'll show you what
I do, you show me what you do. And by
way of that, I probably got you know, thirty to
forty different lessons from thirty to forty different guys, And
it very quickly to me became like, very clearly evident
not all golf coaches were created equal, because I'm pretty
(11:25):
sure I showed up with the same terrible habits and
swing to every single lesson and everybody had a different thing.
And it blew my mind. You know, fast forward now,
you know, fifteen years later and talking to you know,
guys like yourself and just people who are truly at
the top of the instructional side of It's one of
my what I would call soapbox moments is really getting
(11:45):
people to understand, hey, you got to find somebody who
actually knows what they're doing, who's actually put in the
ten thousand hours to understand how to help you personally
and not just teach the same thing to every single
person and hopefully it works for you.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, you're preaching there. You know. For a while, maybe
when I was younger and a little more virus I
took I've not took offense, but I was bothered by
the number of folks that would buy Launch monitor just
hang out coaching shingle kind of thing, you know, and
a lot of us are failed players, and you're like, okay,
(12:20):
well the next best thing is to teach, and so
you have this technology at your disposal and you're basically
just plugging and playing, and that to me ruins more
golfers than anything else. You know, I can look at data.
I could come to your office and look at some
data and try and make some educated guests when not
educated guests. So you're right there. There was a proliferation
(12:43):
of golf instructors, and then the advent of social media
gave them a loud voice, right, and you just have
to say the right thing at the right time, and
all of a sudden you're a massive following. And so look,
more power to them, because as long as if a
person is truly trying to help someone, and then then
I admire you. But folks have to be very careful
(13:04):
when it comes to information, because like when I write
articles or when I do podcasts or whatever, somewhere in
the back of my mind there's this voice that goes, hey, careful.
First off, don't don't screw up talent, and then very
careful because my message is only as good it's what
it's understood. And I could be well meaning, but if
it's misunderstood, then I'm really ruining someone and I'm casting
(13:28):
the money I'm bringing them a lot of I'm ruining
the joy of our great game. And so there's there's
a responsibility to be had here that I was kind
of a little upper tea about at one stage, and
I still am to a certain extent. But people searching,
our teachers have to be smart, and people teaching the
onus is on us to be true to our craft
(13:51):
and to be prepared to say, you know what, I
don't know. If you really don't know, don't guess, Rather
send someone somewhere else. Because investing their hard earned dollars
in this, they have goals, they have dreams, aspirations, that
sort of stuff, and the coach shouldn't be the one
ruining that thing. He or she shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's one of my favorite parallels
of you know, golf instruction and all fitness or rehab, physicotherapy,
physio or whatever, is the what you just said, struck.
The number of times I've told somebody, hey, I can
give you the greatest program in the world, but if
I can't figure out.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
How to get you to do it, it's a terrible program.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Based on data or whatever it could it could look great,
but if if I can't connect with you as a
coach and understand what you actually need and which order
to do it. And I can't tell the number of
people who in the fitness space come in and they say, hey,
I want to get better physically, and you know, you
have to really say, well, how much are you working
out now? And they're like, well, I don't do anything,
and they're like, I want to go seven days a week.
(14:53):
You know, Hey, I'm just going to tell you, let's
let's start with fifteen minutes, five days a week, and
let's see if we can win, make some little wins there,
and then we'll talk about snowball and more. Becau, if
I give you seven days a week, you're going to
start missing days, get demotivated, you know, then you get
into the whole psychology of coaching. But I think what
I'd love to hear Mark is, you know, obviously you've
been around the game in many facets for a long time,
(15:15):
you know, on the physical side, like how have you
seen that evolve in terms of what the great players
or great coaches? Whether I guess two parts, what are
the great players? What did they used to do? Versus
how has that evolved to this day? And then obviously
the great coaches, like how have the great coaches evolved
along with that as there's been more science and research
(15:37):
and kind of evidence that's come out.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Really good question, you know, I will start with a
hero of mine and fortunately a mentor and Gary player
who was well for his time. You know, when he
is a young man. Mit said to me, he came
over to the States and Gary's a small guy, and
he's like, you know, Jack Nicholas and Arnold Palmer were
big and there was and they hit the ball far,
(16:01):
and so I realized that I had to get stronger.
And you know, to look at the guy and now
he's what eighty seven, I don't know, he's not his age,
that's for certain, No, not at all. And he said
to me, he goes, you know, it proved me right,
It proved me that eating proved to me that eating right,
you know, working out, being strong, being healthy, just overall
(16:23):
well being has extended my capacity to not just you know,
enjoy a fruitful life, but to be able to play golf.
Still if you watch still the guys, ever, he's ever
green on the golf course. So I would say that,
you know, as you watch the industry now, maybe they're
just catching up with Gary Player because he was like
(16:44):
he was the outlier back then on the tour. Now
Gary Player is the normal on tour at the high level.
I'm sorry, you cannot compete with the world's best unless
you're strong, healthy, mobile, you know all the stuff. Well,
I guess you could, but you're not going to be
(17:04):
very consistent, and you're going to be you know, spotting strokes.
To people, and to me as a former instructor to
elite golfers, you're always just trying to find some sort
of an edge or a separator, and if you're not
working out you are giving up strokes that that's a
negative separator to me.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So so in.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Terms of the development, it's wide ranging. Now in terms
of the development of the industry, you could talk to
me better than I could. But just from kind of
the layman's viewpoint, movement has gone more from like just
lifting heavy weights back in the day. Now it's a
lot more speed, mobile, dexterity, all that sort of stuff,
(17:50):
dynamic movement kind of deal And with the advent of
what you guys do in like golf specific for fitness
and that sort of thing, that's huge growth in the
industry as well. And I would almost say now there's
a new frontier that's beginning to happen. That was there also,
but now it's beginning to be respected more where people
(18:11):
have realized that Okay, yes me, I'm golf guy, and
now I get in shape fantastic, But you know, then
I'm an overall being too, And now the mental emotion
and the mental and emotional aspect of it all that's
being dealt with too. So it's uncanny how this view
of the golfer is, this entire being as opposed to
just an individual with a golf club in his or
(18:33):
her hand, has changed and it's fun to watch. I'll
tell you what. I listen. I'm an avid listener to
guys like you. I just take this going god Lee.
You know, if someone goes for a less comes for
a lesson with me, I might have grand intention, but
if they can't do this to your thing, like they
(18:54):
can't do it in terms of time. If they can't
just perform the move because they're not mobile or flexible
enough or strong enough, then then my words are empty, honestly,
and I'm giving them a challenge they can't pull off.
So so I almost would almost say to any aspirin cofer,
it's mandatory not to say. You get in there and
you get like Victor Holand or someone in the gym,
(19:18):
but you just get moving and you get mobile and
that sort of stuff, and you hook up with someone
like you and you start to identify that area of
the game because it will make golf easier and most importantly,
it will make you more injury averse, like all of
us golfers who were traveling internationally. A bunch that wears
you out, it really takes its toll on the body.
(19:40):
And Gary still flies millions of miles a year. Pops
off an aeroplane looking like it's a sprightly young viral man.
It's crazy, like you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Just woke up ten hours sleeping in his own bed.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, and when he sees me, he's like Mark grabs
me on my side. He goes a little little flabby there.
So it's it's it's never ending. And I would add
I'm a big advocate of it, and I challenge everyone
to start start moving at least.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it's funny. I mean I haven't. I probably started.
I just about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Is when I had started, kind of had my little
shed on a little driving range and I had a
little trifold sign.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I joke.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Now you know, I had it's ninety nine dollars for
an evaluation in three sessions, like it's literally giving it away.
I couldn't get anybody to work with me. And you know,
they'd come up and you know, it's fine, I talk.
I sound like the old guy now talking to my team.
Yeah I am. Yeah, he goes to me and they'll say,
I say, man, it's it's hard to get people to
buy in. I say, man, you have it easy. When
I started, they didn't even know what the heck golf
(20:42):
fitness was. I would they'd be like, what are you doing?
So not only did I have to try to convince
them that you know, hey and show them, hey, your
hip doesn't move, or your your shoulders and move whatever
it may be, but it was also like, hey, they
don't even know what the heck golf fitness is. And
I think what's been cool for me is over the
last decade, I feel like the the amateur population has
caught up and at least is aware of, oh, that
(21:03):
is something that we should do. And I think now,
really to me, the next generation is is to what
you're what you just said is understanding that your golf
lesson are going and working with a pro becomes multitudes
more beneficial when your body can actually do what they're
they want you to do and what they need you
to do. And I think it's just it's been a
(21:23):
really cool evolution for me just from the inside of
you know, where people didn't even know what the heck
I was doing, so it was kind of a twofold
convincing them to let me help them to now that
people at least know what it is and they accept, oh,
that's probably something to do, but you know that there
is still that awareness of I maybe don't know what
I should do or you know, it's been very cool.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm glad you say that because you know I'm older
than you and I have the benefit of hindsights, and
I would call myself I came from the sony handicamp
era of golf instructors. You'd see us coming. We'd show
with this little bag over our shoulder and our little
soapy handicam and all the golf swing footage we had
assembled was if we're lucky enough to video Tiger or
(22:08):
Ernie or one of these, and then you just kind
of compare people.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And now this is evolved into technology and you could
basically measure almost everything, but everyone back then operated in
silos because information was just so valuable, like I know
a secret kind of thing, and I don't want to
be exactly this is my thing. But now the industries
are just the lines are getting blurred, and any golf
(22:35):
instructor worth his or her soul is going to consult
with somebody with you, like you, for an assessment before
they go. Otherwise you're kind of throwing, you know, stuff
into the wind, and then you're making not long ranging change,
you know. And so I'm finding the whole industry is
kind of the lines are getting blurred a little bit
more because you know, you know, the thing is, if
(22:58):
all you have in your tool as a hammer, everything
in the world is going to become a nail. Yeah,
And I find golf instructors still that way, and sadly
I find some fitness people that way too. But when
you start to learn about everything, and that's why I'm
thankful for my podcast. Man, I've heard it all, and
I can't tell you I was a holistic guy starting this.
(23:20):
I'd be even more so. I mean, I will say categorically,
and I will sit on a board or a council
or whoever with a number of golf teachers and I'll
say to them, I'm like, changing a dude's golf swing
is the intellectually lazy way of getting him to improve.
There's just more to it than that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, and it's it's just always so interesting to meet
You're talking about the lines blurring and just in the
I mean, it's funny because you'll see some you know,
I see some people in the fitness world trying to
do it all. Still you still see people trying to
you know, to your point the handicam oh, I know
all this stuff, and so I have everything. I'm the
one stop shopping I can and people really and you
(24:03):
see it on the you see it on both sides,
and you know, I think the important thing that I
always try to. I just I think in part on
the listeners is like you need the team. The team
is you want somebody who is the expert in the
swing but also understands enough of the body and the mental.
But also you want the expert in the mental who
(24:23):
understands enough. And that's what I always preach to our
guys that you know on our team here is look,
you need to understand the golf swing. We did, like
we had an education yesterday for all of our coaches,
and we're looking at it swing of one of a
client that sent it in and his lead elbows like
popping out like before his club even clears through. Right,
I said, look, you don't need to understand what that
(24:46):
technically occurred or but you need to understand that's not
efficient and and and does it? And and then our
job on the physical side is does he have the
lead hip rotation, the trunk rotation and the lead arm
rotation to not do that? And the answer in this
case was yes. And so then the question is the
education for our guys is well, have you connected with
their instructor because physically there's no reason, you know, when
(25:09):
we looked at his testing, it was hey, when he
started six months ago, he had to do that because
he couldn't move. But now physically you've fixed his inability
to move, so there's no Now it's just a bad habit,
right And now at this point, now the instructor can
have a Hey day. They can do whatever the heck
he wants. You can say, hey, green light. Physically they're good.
And I think that's so important for people to hear
(25:30):
is there's different elements at play, and you sometimes need
a different person. You know, a really great coaches to
me on all sides understand the elements to identify, Hey,
that may be a problem, but they don't necessarily try
to fix everything themselves.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So true. And I mean people might have thought, if
they were truly listening earlier, that I was crazy when
I said, you have to be kind of brave enough
and certainly have a small enough ego to say I
don't know, yeah, and that that's exactly what you talk
about there. You know someone's going to be able to say, well,
this is happening. I think there's more to it than
just the visuals of it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
So this is where I seek out a fitness person
or I seek out whoever the case might be, so
we can make sure that there's nothing underlying that's actually
causing that. And I'm not just trying to sort of
bend or break some guy into some position because of
that when you're doing is wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, yeah, and we see it.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, we see it all the time, whether it's equipment
or we'll see guys where physical metrics, you know, like say, hey,
physically you should be able to swing ten miles an
hour faster, and yeah you can't, Like this is nothing
physical at this point, Like, hey, let's let's get you
with a golf pro or maybe you know you're screwing
up on the golf course, but you're great, a great
range player, or just in a friendly game, Well, let's
(26:45):
talk to who's the mental person that we can connect with.
And I think that's so important for everybody to hear
that when you're looking for really that great coach or
that great team around you, it truly is a team.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And I love what you said to me.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
One of the most powerful and telling signs of somebody
is when they're confident enough to say, I don't know,
I know it's not right, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Know necessarily the best way to fix it. And that's
to me.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I've never said that to a player and had a
negative response. It's always been like, oh, that's awesome, Okay,
well who do we go to?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Right? And it just further deepens your relationship with the
student at that point build trust.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
If you can honestly be like I say, courageous enough
to look at someone and say I'm not sure it,
people trust you more because look, everyone who goes for
a lesson. I the analogy I would draw would be like, okay,
it's the baseball player on first base. My definition is successful,
but now he wants to get to second, and he's
(27:41):
getting the signal to go and try and steal second.
But there's safety in first and every person who comes
for a lesson, they've gotten to a certain level and
there is an element of risk involved to go to
a lesson. I don't care who you are, because you're
venturing into a somewhat unknown place and so you like
then this is the mental aspect of it to say, Okay,
(28:02):
I'm placing my complete trust in this person. To say
I'm going to leave first base on my way to
something better and I'm not going to it's there's not
too much risk involved, and and that that's where if
you look at a person you're like, I'm not sure,
they'll go like, Okay, yes, I'm on board with this
guy because because he's not just saying oh, just go
(28:24):
and do it, everything will be you know, sunshine lollipops
at the end of the journey.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, And I think, yeah, I think when to hear
somebody say, you know what, I'm not sure, but we're
going to find out together. We're going to figure out.
I know where to look, but you know, And I
think that to me is probably one of the most
reassuring things you can hear from a coach. But but Mark,
I know we have you have a book coming out,
and so I love to hear for you to talk
a little bit, tell us you know everyone listen, And myself, well,
(28:49):
I've heard, I've I've read some of the teasers. I've
seen little bits of you know for everyone listening maybe
and has not heard, like, what's what's the book about
and what's what people have to look forward to?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I Chris have just been like I say, I've lived
a very fortunate life and through the show of mine
and through my career as an instructor now broadcaster.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I get to talk to.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Super great minds, outstanding minds in the industry daily. And
my book is called Lessons from the Best, and the
byline is holistic tips and tricks to help you elevate
your game or something to that effect. It's just a
culmination of some of the best stuff I've heard on
the on the Mark podcast. Yeah, and it's PGA tour players,
(29:36):
everyone from Victor Holand to Jordan'speith. It's some of the
great golf instructors like Watch Harmon and David Ledbetter, and
it's there's some fitness folks in there. You didn't make it, sadly,
but in the definitely. And each chapter is basically a summary,
well not a summary, it's it's drawing nuggets of wisdom
(29:57):
from each show, and all I do is I elaborate
in them because, as you know, with a show like this,
time is your enemy, you can get into something and
then you start mining that and there's just so much
that you can be talked about. So I've just looked
at this and I've taken all these nuggets in each
chapter and I just elaborate on them because the goal
is to help the golfer from the top of his
head to the soles of his feet and to say, look,
(30:20):
we're going to hit you with some mental stuff, some
emotional stuff, some physical stuff, and you're hearing it from
the best with Mark just kind of coloring between the
lines a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And so that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So I'm very excited about it. I'm glad the publisher
was and and I've found it as it's been written.
It's almost grown. And I'm loving the fact that the
publisher is almost the impetus for this, because when you
uncover something, it's like he is reading this like a
golf guy goes, yeah, yeah, but what about this? You know,
let's talk about this a little bit. And so it's
(30:53):
it's it's nearly there and and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's awesome. So what we're what's the release date? Where
could people kind of get more information or kind of
follow to when they can grab a copy of this?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, folks can get more information just by following me,
I guess on social And the release date is scheduled
for Masters months. I say months because the Masters is
coming up. It's very special to the entire golfing world.
It's super special to me and my family and so
not too kind of like crib on the Master's thing.
(31:28):
But it'll be released shortly thereafter, just while there's still
a celebration of springtime and everything's new and fresh and
we got our first major champion of the year, and
so it'll be towards I shouldn't date this because it's
a podcast, but the end of April twenty twenty four,
that's the date.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Well, we'll make sure definitely to have all of the
notes and everything into the show notes for all the
listeners so they can make sure they grab a copy.
And finally, what's the best platform obviously on the Mark
podcast is definitely listen on social or where's the best
places you're most active for people?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
For an old guy, I'm kind of everywhere Instagram, Twitter X,
I should say, is at Mark and the Score. Im Molman, Yeah,
I'm tiktoking as well. Just search for Mark Illman there
and I have a YouTube channel that's growing pretty quickly.
You can find the visuals of the podcast there and
some golf tips and stuff. Just search, search and subscribe
to Mark and Molman. And then I have a website
(32:26):
which is Markimilman dot com. So basically my name wherever
you go and you'll find me.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So if you can't find him, then you you have
a bigger problem. So he is everywhere. Uh, definitely go,
you know, give him follow subscribe.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Mark is one of the best in the game and
in the industry, and I will I'm definitely going to
be first on that list or as close to first
as I can for that bookcase that I'm excited to
read that. So Mark, thank you so much for hanging
out with today on the golf that is bomb Squad
and uh and it really I think tons of nuggets
here for for the listeners, and I appreciate you being on.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
If I shouldn't be stealing your closing podcast Thunder I
now as a podcast, but I want to say this, Chris,
it's because of guys like you that my podcast gets
to thrive like it does. And in the acknowledgments, I
recognize all the hundreds of guess we've had that have
been prepared to join and share their time and their
(33:23):
insights and their experiences. You talked about that that sort
of stuff. So thank you for what you do in
the industry, and thank you for making something that I
do a whole lot better to my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
So it's been awesome having you on Mark and I.
We'll look forward to hopefully having you and I'm sure
sometime again soon.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Look forward to
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for S Golf. Welcome to the
Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. I'm your host, Chris Finn, and
I'm excited today and honor to be joined by another
host of an amazing podcast. If you haven't heard about it,
you've probably been living under a rock. On the mark.
(00:23):
We have Mark Immlman here with us. And for those
of you who don't know, he's not just an amazing podcaster. Obviously,
you've probably seen him somewhere broadcasting, you know, some one
of the top top players in the world and giving
insights into what they're thinking and how they're doing. But
for those of you who didn't know, he's also one
hell of a player. All American for four years in college,
(00:44):
played on the tour. He's also one of the top
ten golf instructors in the state of Georgia. So if
you are anywhere around the state of Georgia, a good
guid to to potentially reach out to. But definitely, you know,
one of the the greats in the game, most notable
as well as on the you know, the the college
coaching side has been a coach, Coach of the Year twice,
just just all around, very very knowledgeable in the space.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I am honored to have you on the show. And
thanks for joining me today, Chris.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's my thrill. All I could say listening to all
of that is ain't golf grand? I mean, goodness, Grace.
We are in this really cool space that's ever evolving,
and you know, it's thanks to golf that I get
to talk to people like you. So I appreciate you having.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Me, Yeah, for sure, man, And so tell it for
any listeners who maybe don't know how you've gotten to
where you've gotten to. You know, just how did you
get into golf and how did you then go from
being a player to a coach and obviously you know
very well known now in the you know, the broadcasting
and entertainment space, just because of all the expertise that
you get, Like, how did that journey happen?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Purely accidental and largely serendipitous, I would say. Growing up
in South Africa, I was just like any young kid
a number of sports. You know, we're very outdoorsy over there.
So I played cricket and tennis in the summer, and
I played rugby in the winter, and I've never been
the biggest guy in the world. And so one rugby
(02:11):
match I got badly injured. I got my wrist broken
and I had to be it took a procedure to
get it reset, and so I just remember lying there
on the gurney ready to go into the operating theater,
and my coach came and visited and he said to
my parents and me and my groggy state, I got this.
He was like, look, Mark's too small to play a
(02:34):
rugby We're not going to do this sort of stuff anymore.
And so and look, thankfully I was. I excelled in
other sports too. And then coming back from the injury,
the one Saturday morning after I came out of the
cast and stuff, my buddies were going to the golf course.
I'm not sure why, and so they're like, come join me,
And so I looked at my dad and he said,
(02:57):
bol means there's an old set of clubs in the garage.
I was left handed, they were right handed. That was
the conundrum, and so I went in the proverbial bug bit,
and so golf sort of stuck. Then I have a
younger brother. You might have heard of him, Trevor, and
and he's nine years my junior, so at that stage
(03:17):
I was about fourteen, so he was five ish. And
my mom quickly figured that this is a great way
for babysitting, especially during the summer.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sounds like a brilliant woman two she is.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So trev would tag along to the golf course with us,
and you know, playing with teenage boys, he got good
very quick, almost like necessity is the mother of invention
kind of thing. Yeah, and just by pure athleticism, I
guess I got good and sort of winning some and
made my in South Africa provincial team and played at
(03:49):
the national championships and stuff, and it just largely progressed
from there and got to college eventually, and then college
went well, and then I turned professional after college after
being the All American winning tournaments and stuff, and I
was I turned prone so quickly. I realized that hold
(04:10):
on a second, if I want to be the best
golfer in the world and that's my goal, I can't
even beat my household consistently because my younger brother was
pipping me at the time, and this was this was
an unwelcome yet I'm thankful for it. Dose of realism,
and so I gravitated to coaching and teaching and my
(04:34):
dad told me, you know, looking back that apparently when
I was a kid, I said I wanted to be
a teacher, and so yeah, we are. I get to
teach a game that I love and moved you with.
Then I was teaching full time on the European Tour
and my old college coach called me up and he
select the golf coaching jobs, going we'd love you to interview,
and it was a way for me to and then
(04:55):
fiancee to get to the United States because it's not
as easy as they make it sound on the news.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So I came my interviewed, offered me the job, and
we moved over here to Columbus, Georgia in two thousand
and one, and heck, I'm still here. But it just
the whole thing just morphed into a place where I
did some guests announcing one time over in South Africa,
and someone realized I had a bit of a flare
for it because I bought a different angle. And then
(05:27):
looking back at it now, Chris, you know, I fell
into radio and from radio became PGA Tour Alive and
then the folks at CBS heard me there and I'm
with them. But looking back at all those days giving
hundreds of lessons in the Georgia summertime, I realized that
that was kind of my experience where it was my
(05:48):
wilderness time, if you will, and it got me. It
taught me to see the game differently, you know, see
it as an instructor slash coach, but also realized that
when you're communicating with people more than just calling you know, yeah,
balls and strikes kind of thing. And so it afforded
me a different sort of perspective, which thankfully is the
(06:10):
lane I walk in my current broadcast career. So that's
kind of the short story. You know, the podcast and
all that sort of stuff came as an offshoot of that,
but it's all been very I've lived a blessed existence.
I mean, good golf has afforded me a lot of stuff.
And I get a voice now, strangely because I'm sort
(06:33):
of known, you know, when I was being as a
golf teacher to be the number one guy. I was good.
I taught a number of really good players, but I
was never the magazine cover a guy.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, Now all of a sudden, now that I have
a microphone in front of of my face, people won
my opinion. So it's it's kind of weird, but it's
really how that works. Yeah, it's weird and cool, and
you know, looking back, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, And it's we've had a number of great destructors
on and that is a common theme that that I've
seen and even other coaches in the fitness space or
that is like there is a certain definite commonality between
In one of the episodes, we talked about how in
the social media world today, you know, you coach one
(07:18):
player and immediately some guy is the top guy, and
then you look, you know, a year and a half later,
and they don't exist anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But the true the true coaches.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And is one of the big questions we get from
listeners and people listening right now is how do I
find the right coach? How do I find somebody who
actually knows what the heck they're talking about? And we
get that both in the fitness space as well as
in the instructional space. And one of the things that
we always talk about, you know, you kind of you
talked about the hot summer days of coaching you know,
(07:49):
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of golfers, probably thousands, and
it's that you can't you can't replace experience. You can't
speed it up. Right, A lesson in our lesson takes
an hour and you got to do over and over
and over and and to your point, I think that's
one of the one of the great things I love
about listening when you're when you're on the radio or
(08:09):
TV and just listen to you commentator at the pod
is the those perspectives and those those clearly come and
I think for those of you listening when you're you're
looking at coaches and when you think about the people
you truly do enjoy of talking about the game and
analyzing the game. It's because of those many pounds of sweat,
loss in the sun coaching and learning what actually works
(08:31):
for people.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well, it's it's interesting you say that and you observe
that because the origin of my podcast, because when the
tour came to me, the PGA torn said to me,
we want you to do the show, and it was
like a magazine recap show. And after a few weeks
of getting zero downloads kind of thing, I was like man,
this is not my lane. So without their blessing, I
(08:55):
just turned it into golf instruction and I called up
the coaches and players I knew and asked them on
and quickly I realized that everyone's wanting to get better.
And it occurred to me in a moment of clarity
where I was like, you know, I was that kid
growing up in South Africa who didn't have a coach,
didn't have access to the Golf channel, got magazine sporadically,
(09:16):
I read voraciously to learn, but I never had access
to these great coaches. Yep, so reading books I could.
And then I was like, but hold in a second,
I have the opportunity with this podcast to introduce people
around the world kids like me couldn't get to coaches,
to bright minds. Then I was like, well cool, and
(09:39):
now I've got giving away for the young aspirin coach.
I think of a young Chris Finn before he became
a behemoth in the fitness industry, to shine a bright
light on a bright mind as well. And so it
was almost double timing everything. And the people that were
winning from all of this were the folks that were
just looking for good information.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
And so when you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Look at coaches. I'm I'm happy to say that my
show and yours to a large extent as well, is
just bringing an all encompassing sort of a viewpoint as
to golf improvements. And that's why I featured teachers and
players and fitness experts and psychologists and we've had you know,
neurosurgeons on you before too, because we such holistic beings
(10:22):
and and you're right, finding the right coach is difficult,
but I hope that by way of what you and
I do were opening the we opening up the lines
of communication a bit more so folks can get access
to people and realize, like, Okay, who fits the bill
when it comes to me understanding what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And I think one of my favorite parts of my
learning experience coming into the industry was I didn't play
golf until after grad school, picked it up and started
a business, and I quickly realized I wasn't a good employee,
so I had to figure out something. So I got
the bug a little later in life than you did.
But part of starting the business, nobody knew who that
(11:01):
guy was, and I went around to every single golf
coach at every single golf club in the area, and
I basically said, hey, let me, I'll show you what
I do, you show me what you do. And by
way of that, I probably got you know, thirty to
forty different lessons from thirty to forty different guys, And
it very quickly to me became like, very clearly evident
not all golf coaches were created equal, because I'm pretty
(11:25):
sure I showed up with the same terrible habits and
swing to every single lesson and everybody had a different thing.
And it blew my mind. You know, fast forward now,
you know, fifteen years later and talking to you know,
guys like yourself and just people who are truly at
the top of the instructional side of It's one of
my what I would call soapbox moments is really getting
(11:45):
people to understand, hey, you got to find somebody who
actually knows what they're doing, who's actually put in the
ten thousand hours to understand how to help you personally
and not just teach the same thing to every single
person and hopefully it works for you.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, you're preaching there. You know. For a while, maybe
when I was younger and a little more virus I
took I've not took offense, but I was bothered by
the number of folks that would buy Launch monitor just
hang out coaching shingle kind of thing, you know, and
a lot of us are failed players, and you're like, okay,
(12:20):
well the next best thing is to teach, and so
you have this technology at your disposal and you're basically
just plugging and playing, and that to me ruins more
golfers than anything else. You know, I can look at data.
I could come to your office and look at some
data and try and make some educated guests when not
educated guests. So you're right there. There was a proliferation
(12:43):
of golf instructors, and then the advent of social media
gave them a loud voice, right, and you just have
to say the right thing at the right time, and
all of a sudden you're a massive following. And so look,
more power to them, because as long as if a
person is truly trying to help someone, and then then
I admire you. But folks have to be very careful
(13:04):
when it comes to information, because like when I write
articles or when I do podcasts or whatever, somewhere in
the back of my mind there's this voice that goes, hey, careful.
First off, don't don't screw up talent, and then very
careful because my message is only as good it's what
it's understood. And I could be well meaning, but if
it's misunderstood, then I'm really ruining someone and I'm casting
(13:28):
the money I'm bringing them a lot of I'm ruining
the joy of our great game. And so there's there's
a responsibility to be had here that I was kind
of a little upper tea about at one stage, and
I still am to a certain extent. But people searching,
our teachers have to be smart, and people teaching the
onus is on us to be true to our craft
(13:51):
and to be prepared to say, you know what, I
don't know. If you really don't know, don't guess, Rather
send someone somewhere else. Because investing their hard earned dollars
in this, they have goals, they have dreams, aspirations, that
sort of stuff, and the coach shouldn't be the one
ruining that thing. He or she shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's one of my favorite parallels
of you know, golf instruction and all fitness or rehab, physicotherapy,
physio or whatever, is the what you just said, struck.
The number of times I've told somebody, hey, I can
give you the greatest program in the world, but if
I can't figure out.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
How to get you to do it, it's a terrible program.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Based on data or whatever it could it could look great,
but if if I can't connect with you as a
coach and understand what you actually need and which order
to do it. And I can't tell the number of
people who in the fitness space come in and they say, hey,
I want to get better physically, and you know, you
have to really say, well, how much are you working
out now? And they're like, well, I don't do anything,
and they're like, I want to go seven days a week.
(14:53):
You know, Hey, I'm just going to tell you, let's
let's start with fifteen minutes, five days a week, and
let's see if we can win, make some little wins there,
and then we'll talk about snowball and more. Becau, if
I give you seven days a week, you're going to
start missing days, get demotivated, you know, then you get
into the whole psychology of coaching. But I think what
I'd love to hear Mark is, you know, obviously you've
been around the game in many facets for a long time,
(15:15):
you know, on the physical side, like how have you
seen that evolve in terms of what the great players
or great coaches? Whether I guess two parts, what are
the great players? What did they used to do? Versus
how has that evolved to this day? And then obviously
the great coaches, like how have the great coaches evolved
along with that as there's been more science and research
(15:37):
and kind of evidence that's come out.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Really good question, you know, I will start with a
hero of mine and fortunately a mentor and Gary player
who was well for his time. You know, when he
is a young man. Mit said to me, he came
over to the States and Gary's a small guy, and
he's like, you know, Jack Nicholas and Arnold Palmer were
big and there was and they hit the ball far,
(16:01):
and so I realized that I had to get stronger.
And you know, to look at the guy and now
he's what eighty seven, I don't know, he's not his age,
that's for certain, No, not at all. And he said
to me, he goes, you know, it proved me right,
It proved me that eating proved to me that eating right,
you know, working out, being strong, being healthy, just overall
(16:23):
well being has extended my capacity to not just you know,
enjoy a fruitful life, but to be able to play golf.
Still if you watch still the guys, ever, he's ever
green on the golf course. So I would say that,
you know, as you watch the industry now, maybe they're
just catching up with Gary Player because he was like
(16:44):
he was the outlier back then on the tour. Now
Gary Player is the normal on tour at the high level.
I'm sorry, you cannot compete with the world's best unless
you're strong, healthy, mobile, you know all the stuff. Well,
I guess you could, but you're not going to be
(17:04):
very consistent, and you're going to be you know, spotting strokes.
To people, and to me as a former instructor to
elite golfers, you're always just trying to find some sort
of an edge or a separator, and if you're not
working out you are giving up strokes that that's a
negative separator to me.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So so in.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Terms of the development, it's wide ranging. Now in terms
of the development of the industry, you could talk to
me better than I could. But just from kind of
the layman's viewpoint, movement has gone more from like just
lifting heavy weights back in the day. Now it's a
lot more speed, mobile, dexterity, all that sort of stuff,
(17:50):
dynamic movement kind of deal And with the advent of
what you guys do in like golf specific for fitness
and that sort of thing, that's huge growth in the
industry as well. And I would almost say now there's
a new frontier that's beginning to happen. That was there also,
but now it's beginning to be respected more where people
(18:11):
have realized that Okay, yes me, I'm golf guy, and
now I get in shape fantastic, But you know, then
I'm an overall being too, And now the mental emotion
and the mental and emotional aspect of it all that's
being dealt with too. So it's uncanny how this view
of the golfer is, this entire being as opposed to
just an individual with a golf club in his or
(18:33):
her hand, has changed and it's fun to watch. I'll
tell you what. I listen. I'm an avid listener to
guys like you. I just take this going god Lee.
You know, if someone goes for a less comes for
a lesson with me, I might have grand intention, but
if they can't do this to your thing, like they
(18:54):
can't do it in terms of time. If they can't
just perform the move because they're not mobile or flexible
enough or strong enough, then then my words are empty, honestly,
and I'm giving them a challenge they can't pull off.
So so I almost would almost say to any aspirin cofer,
it's mandatory not to say. You get in there and
you get like Victor Holand or someone in the gym,
(19:18):
but you just get moving and you get mobile and
that sort of stuff, and you hook up with someone
like you and you start to identify that area of
the game because it will make golf easier and most importantly,
it will make you more injury averse, like all of
us golfers who were traveling internationally. A bunch that wears
you out, it really takes its toll on the body.
(19:40):
And Gary still flies millions of miles a year. Pops
off an aeroplane looking like it's a sprightly young viral man.
It's crazy, like you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Just woke up ten hours sleeping in his own bed.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, and when he sees me, he's like Mark grabs
me on my side. He goes a little little flabby there.
So it's it's it's never ending. And I would add
I'm a big advocate of it, and I challenge everyone
to start start moving at least.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it's funny. I mean I haven't. I probably started.
I just about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Is when I had started, kind of had my little
shed on a little driving range and I had a
little trifold sign.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I joke.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Now you know, I had it's ninety nine dollars for
an evaluation in three sessions, like it's literally giving it away.
I couldn't get anybody to work with me. And you know,
they'd come up and you know, it's fine, I talk.
I sound like the old guy now talking to my team.
Yeah I am. Yeah, he goes to me and they'll say,
I say, man, it's it's hard to get people to
buy in. I say, man, you have it easy. When
I started, they didn't even know what the heck golf
(20:42):
fitness was. I would they'd be like, what are you doing?
So not only did I have to try to convince
them that you know, hey and show them, hey, your
hip doesn't move, or your your shoulders and move whatever
it may be, but it was also like, hey, they
don't even know what the heck golf fitness is. And
I think what's been cool for me is over the
last decade, I feel like the the amateur population has
caught up and at least is aware of, oh, that
(21:03):
is something that we should do. And I think now,
really to me, the next generation is is to what
you're what you just said is understanding that your golf
lesson are going and working with a pro becomes multitudes
more beneficial when your body can actually do what they're
they want you to do and what they need you
to do. And I think it's just it's been a
(21:23):
really cool evolution for me just from the inside of
you know, where people didn't even know what the heck
I was doing, so it was kind of a twofold
convincing them to let me help them to now that
people at least know what it is and they accept, oh,
that's probably something to do, but you know that there
is still that awareness of I maybe don't know what
I should do or you know, it's been very cool.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm glad you say that because you know I'm older
than you and I have the benefit of hindsights, and
I would call myself I came from the sony handicamp
era of golf instructors. You'd see us coming. We'd show
with this little bag over our shoulder and our little
soapy handicam and all the golf swing footage we had
assembled was if we're lucky enough to video Tiger or
(22:08):
Ernie or one of these, and then you just kind
of compare people.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And now this is evolved into technology and you could
basically measure almost everything, but everyone back then operated in
silos because information was just so valuable, like I know
a secret kind of thing, and I don't want to
be exactly this is my thing. But now the industries
are just the lines are getting blurred, and any golf
(22:35):
instructor worth his or her soul is going to consult
with somebody with you, like you, for an assessment before
they go. Otherwise you're kind of throwing, you know, stuff
into the wind, and then you're making not long ranging change,
you know. And so I'm finding the whole industry is
kind of the lines are getting blurred a little bit
more because you know, you know, the thing is, if
(22:58):
all you have in your tool as a hammer, everything
in the world is going to become a nail. Yeah,
And I find golf instructors still that way, and sadly
I find some fitness people that way too. But when
you start to learn about everything, and that's why I'm
thankful for my podcast. Man, I've heard it all, and
I can't tell you I was a holistic guy starting this.
(23:20):
I'd be even more so. I mean, I will say categorically,
and I will sit on a board or a council
or whoever with a number of golf teachers and I'll
say to them, I'm like, changing a dude's golf swing
is the intellectually lazy way of getting him to improve.
There's just more to it than that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, and it's it's just always so interesting to meet
You're talking about the lines blurring and just in the
I mean, it's funny because you'll see some you know,
I see some people in the fitness world trying to
do it all. Still you still see people trying to
you know, to your point the handicam oh, I know
all this stuff, and so I have everything. I'm the
one stop shopping I can and people really and you
(24:03):
see it on the you see it on both sides,
and you know, I think the important thing that I
always try to. I just I think in part on
the listeners is like you need the team. The team
is you want somebody who is the expert in the
swing but also understands enough of the body and the mental.
But also you want the expert in the mental who
(24:23):
understands enough. And that's what I always preach to our
guys that you know on our team here is look,
you need to understand the golf swing. We did, like
we had an education yesterday for all of our coaches,
and we're looking at it swing of one of a
client that sent it in and his lead elbows like
popping out like before his club even clears through. Right,
I said, look, you don't need to understand what that
(24:46):
technically occurred or but you need to understand that's not
efficient and and and does it? And and then our
job on the physical side is does he have the
lead hip rotation, the trunk rotation and the lead arm
rotation to not do that? And the answer in this
case was yes. And so then the question is the
education for our guys is well, have you connected with
their instructor because physically there's no reason, you know, when
(25:09):
we looked at his testing, it was hey, when he
started six months ago, he had to do that because
he couldn't move. But now physically you've fixed his inability
to move, so there's no Now it's just a bad habit,
right And now at this point, now the instructor can
have a Hey day. They can do whatever the heck
he wants. You can say, hey, green light. Physically they're good.
And I think that's so important for people to hear
(25:30):
is there's different elements at play, and you sometimes need
a different person. You know, a really great coaches to
me on all sides understand the elements to identify, Hey,
that may be a problem, but they don't necessarily try
to fix everything themselves.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So true. And I mean people might have thought, if
they were truly listening earlier, that I was crazy when
I said, you have to be kind of brave enough
and certainly have a small enough ego to say I
don't know, yeah, and that that's exactly what you talk
about there. You know someone's going to be able to say, well,
this is happening. I think there's more to it than
just the visuals of it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
So this is where I seek out a fitness person
or I seek out whoever the case might be, so
we can make sure that there's nothing underlying that's actually
causing that. And I'm not just trying to sort of
bend or break some guy into some position because of
that when you're doing is wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, yeah, and we see it.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, we see it all the time, whether it's equipment
or we'll see guys where physical metrics, you know, like say, hey,
physically you should be able to swing ten miles an
hour faster, and yeah you can't, Like this is nothing
physical at this point, Like, hey, let's let's get you
with a golf pro or maybe you know you're screwing
up on the golf course, but you're great, a great
range player, or just in a friendly game, Well, let's
(26:45):
talk to who's the mental person that we can connect with.
And I think that's so important for everybody to hear
that when you're looking for really that great coach or
that great team around you, it truly is a team.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And I love what you said to me.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
One of the most powerful and telling signs of somebody
is when they're confident enough to say, I don't know,
I know it's not right, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Know necessarily the best way to fix it. And that's
to me.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I've never said that to a player and had a
negative response. It's always been like, oh, that's awesome, Okay,
well who do we go to?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Right? And it just further deepens your relationship with the
student at that point build trust.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
If you can honestly be like I say, courageous enough
to look at someone and say I'm not sure it,
people trust you more because look, everyone who goes for
a lesson. I the analogy I would draw would be like, okay,
it's the baseball player on first base. My definition is successful,
but now he wants to get to second, and he's
(27:41):
getting the signal to go and try and steal second.
But there's safety in first and every person who comes
for a lesson, they've gotten to a certain level and
there is an element of risk involved to go to
a lesson. I don't care who you are, because you're
venturing into a somewhat unknown place and so you like
then this is the mental aspect of it to say, Okay,
(28:02):
I'm placing my complete trust in this person. To say
I'm going to leave first base on my way to
something better and I'm not going to it's there's not
too much risk involved, and and that that's where if
you look at a person you're like, I'm not sure,
they'll go like, Okay, yes, I'm on board with this
guy because because he's not just saying oh, just go
(28:24):
and do it, everything will be you know, sunshine lollipops
at the end of the journey.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, And I think, yeah, I think when to hear
somebody say, you know what, I'm not sure, but we're
going to find out together. We're going to figure out.
I know where to look, but you know, And I
think that to me is probably one of the most
reassuring things you can hear from a coach. But but Mark,
I know we have you have a book coming out,
and so I love to hear for you to talk
a little bit, tell us you know everyone listen, And myself, well,
(28:49):
I've heard, I've I've read some of the teasers. I've
seen little bits of you know for everyone listening maybe
and has not heard, like, what's what's the book about
and what's what people have to look forward to?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I Chris have just been like I say, I've lived
a very fortunate life and through the show of mine
and through my career as an instructor now broadcaster.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I get to talk to.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Super great minds, outstanding minds in the industry daily. And
my book is called Lessons from the Best, and the
byline is holistic tips and tricks to help you elevate
your game or something to that effect. It's just a
culmination of some of the best stuff I've heard on
the on the Mark podcast. Yeah, and it's PGA tour players,
(29:36):
everyone from Victor Holand to Jordan'speith. It's some of the
great golf instructors like Watch Harmon and David Ledbetter, and
it's there's some fitness folks in there. You didn't make it, sadly,
but in the definitely. And each chapter is basically a summary,
well not a summary, it's it's drawing nuggets of wisdom
(29:57):
from each show, and all I do is I elaborate
in them because, as you know, with a show like this,
time is your enemy, you can get into something and
then you start mining that and there's just so much
that you can be talked about. So I've just looked
at this and I've taken all these nuggets in each
chapter and I just elaborate on them because the goal
is to help the golfer from the top of his
head to the soles of his feet and to say, look,
(30:20):
we're going to hit you with some mental stuff, some
emotional stuff, some physical stuff, and you're hearing it from
the best with Mark just kind of coloring between the
lines a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And so that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So I'm very excited about it. I'm glad the publisher
was and and I've found it as it's been written.
It's almost grown. And I'm loving the fact that the
publisher is almost the impetus for this, because when you
uncover something, it's like he is reading this like a
golf guy goes, yeah, yeah, but what about this? You know,
let's talk about this a little bit. And so it's
(30:53):
it's it's nearly there and and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's awesome. So what we're what's the release date? Where
could people kind of get more information or kind of
follow to when they can grab a copy of this?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, folks can get more information just by following me,
I guess on social And the release date is scheduled
for Masters months. I say months because the Masters is
coming up. It's very special to the entire golfing world.
It's super special to me and my family and so
not too kind of like crib on the Master's thing.
(31:28):
But it'll be released shortly thereafter, just while there's still
a celebration of springtime and everything's new and fresh and
we got our first major champion of the year, and
so it'll be towards I shouldn't date this because it's
a podcast, but the end of April twenty twenty four,
that's the date.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Well, we'll make sure definitely to have all of the
notes and everything into the show notes for all the
listeners so they can make sure they grab a copy.
And finally, what's the best platform obviously on the Mark
podcast is definitely listen on social or where's the best
places you're most active for people?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
For an old guy, I'm kind of everywhere Instagram, Twitter X,
I should say, is at Mark and the Score. Im Molman, Yeah,
I'm tiktoking as well. Just search for Mark Illman there
and I have a YouTube channel that's growing pretty quickly.
You can find the visuals of the podcast there and
some golf tips and stuff. Just search, search and subscribe
to Mark and Molman. And then I have a website
(32:26):
which is Markimilman dot com. So basically my name wherever
you go and you'll find me.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So if you can't find him, then you you have
a bigger problem. So he is everywhere. Uh, definitely go,
you know, give him follow subscribe.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Mark is one of the best in the game and
in the industry, and I will I'm definitely going to
be first on that list or as close to first
as I can for that bookcase that I'm excited to
read that. So Mark, thank you so much for hanging
out with today on the golf that is bomb Squad
and uh and it really I think tons of nuggets
here for for the listeners, and I appreciate you being on.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
If I shouldn't be stealing your closing podcast Thunder I
now as a podcast, but I want to say this, Chris,
it's because of guys like you that my podcast gets
to thrive like it does. And in the acknowledgments, I
recognize all the hundreds of guess we've had that have
been prepared to join and share their time and their
(33:23):
insights and their experiences. You talked about that that sort
of stuff. So thank you for what you do in
the industry, and thank you for making something that I
do a whole lot better to my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
So it's been awesome having you on Mark and I.
We'll look forward to hopefully having you and I'm sure
sometime again soon.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Look forward to
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