April 24, 2024 • 22 mins
Co-founder of Stick Mobility, Dennis Dunphy, joins Chris to share more about the stick. Dennis covers who it's for, how it works, and the benefits for everyone!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for U S Golf. Welcome to
the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. My name is Chris Finn.
I'm your host, and I'm excited today because we have
a little change up from We've obviously had a lot
of instructors on if you've been following along each each
week here each episode. This week I have a fellow
(00:23):
fitness guy. Finally, we have another fitness person on the pod.
So super excited to have Dennis Dumpy here with me today. Dennis,
for those of you who don't know, as co founder
of the Stick so it's one of it's a pretty
cool tool. We're going to talk a lot about that.
We're going to talk about how it could potentially help
you and your golf game. But welcome to the pod, Dennis.
(00:45):
I have you man, Chris, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's always a pleasure to be on a podcast, so
be looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, man, So I guess talk to me. I'm always
curious fellow entrepreneur, like like, how'd you like, where does
this come from? How'd you get to where you guys? Like,
what's kind of the origin story.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So Neil and I used to do stick stretching with
a chiropractor over in Santa Cruz, California, doctor Arthur Fagenholtz,
and he used to use ratan sticks to do some
stretching for his clients. So we learned from him on
how he applies the stick, and we looked at it
and went, okay, well, there's a lot of strength training
(01:24):
aspects that can be used with a stick, and we
love isometrics because they're very effective, very safe to use,
and so we said, hey, we're going to start creating
our own system, and he's like, hey, go for it.
So he's for him, it was just about using the
stick to stretch his clients, and for us, we figured, okay,
(01:45):
we can first of all show people joint by joint
mobilizations with the stick, and then also give him a
good amount of strength training, which most of our program
is actual strength training, and then we can finish off
with the active stretching, which is a big difference from
what most people do, which is typically passive stretching.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Awesome and so and for just everybody listening, who I
would say eight percent the probably have no idea the
difference between active versus passive stretching. Like, what's what's the difference.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, people typically passively stretch, which means they'll sit on
the flay down on the floor, they'll grab a leg
and stretch the hamstring and they'll just pull it up
and just lay there. For us, we want to use
that isometric contraction, So we want you to activate the
muscle tissue fibers with the connective tissue and fight against
that stretch or pull or into the stretch even more
(02:36):
so that way you're bringing some neuromuscular control to those
tissue lines. So that's the difference between passive and active,
and you'll feel it right away. So people that are
used to passive stretching, when we ask them to, hey,
so hey, do a little isometric contraction push against me,
pull against me. Then they're like, oh, that's a massive difference.
And in our case, we use the stick. So we'll
(02:58):
have the stick. We'll say okay, we'll them up into
a posture. Well say okay, now a sail and push
the stick away from you or pull the stick towards you,
And people's eyes light right up and they go, oh,
that's vastly different. Feel than what I'm used to. And
you're like, nah, this is a little bit more effective
than what you're typically used to.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, for sure, and and for and just to you know,
talk about you know, obviously there's three different types of
kind of contractions like isometric, ice connect Like what what
is just I always like to make sure everybody is
we're all speaking the same language, everybody listening understands, because
I think that's obviously a unique part of the system
you guys have built. So like what is isometric? And
(03:37):
you know, you very you know, astutely said it's very safe.
Like what's what what is isometric? And you know contraction
and how does that differ from you know, weightlifting or
you know those other types of things types of strength
training that people may be more familiar with just coming
out of like the eighties and nineties bodybuilding errors.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Right, So to me, typically most people are just doing
joint ranges of ocean with load.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So let's take an overhead press for example, So you're
just up and down with the arm with the weight
in the arm for us, So okay, we'll say, okay, well,
let's do a little bit of a hang to reverse
that pressing motion to engage the lad a little bit
more help open up that shoulder space. So we'll say, okay,
let's grab a stick, reach to the top. Now let's
drop into the hang. So we'll passively let them just
(04:23):
drop their body weight. They're gonna feel that grip intensified,
they're gonna feel their armline activate. And then from there
we'll say, okay, now let's push the stick into the
floor with that hand at about thirty forty percent of
your max effort, right, so on a scale of one
to ten, you're giving me like a three. And so
they'll push the stick down. We tell them to keep
the elbow straight and pushed down from the lat ribcage area.
(04:47):
And then they're like, oh, they'll feel the scalpule'll pull down,
they'll feel that lad engage. And then we're like, okay,
now now you're packing your shoulder right, and they'll be okay, well,
that's that's something that used to feeling. And then from
there we'll say, okay, let's add some rotation to that
while you continue to push the stick into the floor
to keep those tissues actually engaged versus sunning them down,
(05:11):
so to speak.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
For sure, So and in the system. I mean, how
does your guy, how do you guys approach a rotary athlete,
you know, specifically obsolutely golf. That's you know, obviously I'm
listening here is golfer. So we should probably talk about
that because they're about that side of things. It's like
when you guys come in and you get a golfer
and they you know, they want to, you know, use
(05:32):
the system, Like what sort of I guess different approach
might you take with them versus uh, you know, maybe
just a gen pop person or somebody who's you know,
just playing different sport all together.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well typically for a lot of golfers is I think
the the thing that the general golfer, the amateur golfer
doesn't realize is the amount of physical skills the professional
golfer has, right. And that's what sets professionals apart from
the rest of them normal people, right, is their skill
sets physically and mentally are far shuperior to ours.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So the average person who's sitting at the at their
desk all day or sitting on their couch then goes
up and get gets up to go play golf doesn't
have the same hip mobilization ability that the professional golfer has,
they may not have the T spine rotation, especially that
a professional golfer will have. So those are the aspects
(06:28):
that we're typically looking to attack. First, we want to
make sure that number one, the hips are buttery, as
some people would say. And number two, we want to
make sure that your T spine rotation is what it
needs to be, that you have that ability to rotate
the T spine in and out of your sling.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, for sure. And I guess what are the I
guess Obviously when we work with log golfers, we get
you know, juniors eight nine, ten years old all the
way to we got al who's he's probably the oldest
guy at the gym right now, he's ninety four, I think, so,
so why it's range? And then we got obviously long
drive guys swinging one hundred and sixty miles an hour.
(07:06):
How does you know based on you know, obviously we
have wide variety of people listen, So can you go
into like, how does maybe a junior look at utilizing
it versus you know, maybe somebody in their fifties, sixties
versus somebody who's elite right playing PGA tour. You know,
trying to maybe go world long drive, so they're swinging
(07:27):
you know, double that and basically like how does how
does how does the implementation potentially change? Or how should
people think about where to potentially implement it, you know,
based on where they're at.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I think for like a younger person who's still developing,
then we can use the stick to help them understand
more of that physical development that they're going through. We
see kids as they as they're growing up, they may
need a little bit of help coordinating some movements they're
growing into their they're growing, so we sometimes see that
(08:02):
as that's taking place, they get a little clumsy. They
don't know how to deal with those new lever lengths
that they're growing and developing. So we can use the
stick as a really great way to close chain at
that development and help them really move smoothly in and
out of their motions. For an older person fifty sixty
years of age, like I said a little bit earlier before,
(08:23):
we want to make sure that everything's moving well. We
want to make sure that those hips have no internal
and external rotation. We want to help them understand what
shifting weight is from side to side, and then we
want to make sure that the ribcage and the spine
moved relatively well, right, and therefore your highly skilled professional athlete.
(08:45):
A lot of times we can use that just to
help access more drive internally, either loading into that backswing
or accessing greater ground force coming out of the backswing.
One of the things that a lot of golfers, especially amateurs,
don't get is ground force reaction. It's necessary. We see
(09:07):
a lot of golfers and a lot of general population
when you ask them to swing, it's completely upper body dominant, right,
the hips are the hips are non existent, and so
they really don't understand ground force just because they haven't
really used it in so long. So for us it's
a great tool to We can set them up into
(09:28):
that rotation with the stick in the ground and say, okay,
now push the stick into the ground a little bit
more dynamically, and then as they push down, they should
feel that inside leg drive into the ground also, and say, Okay,
that's your ground force reaction that you're looking for. So
that way, you're using that propulsion from the ground like
you should be, versus trying to just dominate through the
(09:50):
upper torso right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, I mean we're big. You know, we've done
a ton of research in the ground force. We've got
two sets of dual plates and so I'm very curious
just this. Now I'm getting selfish here, so everyone listening
just bear along with me. Yeah, the you know, obviously
there's the three different forces, right, You've got the horizontal,
the vertical, and the tow heel or you know, torsional,
depending who you talk to what they want to call it.
(10:13):
So obviously, obviously, you know, how would somebody leverage you know,
for us in our you know, when we work with people,
we talk a lot about Obviously, the first part is
you got to get mobile in the four rotary centers.
You know, that's obviously you know mobility. Then there's obviously
a strength component. You've got to be strong enough to move.
But then once people have there's a lot of people
that will get to the point where they're they move
(10:33):
how they're supposed to. They're as strong as they need
to be relative to how fast they're going to be swinging.
At the next level, we then go to as we
call it transfer training. So basically, how do we train
in the gym to the ground forces to get them
to transfer to the actual specific activity of the golf swing.
So if you have somebody who and we've got people
that sometimes it's more vertical timing of they're too late
(10:55):
or they just suck at producing that anyway, maybe they're
horror Zontalds aren't good, you know, maybe they just or
maybe the obviously depending on the player, they may be
more dominant or they're they may have more one may
be more of a preference than the other in terms
of how they create speed just naturally, So I'd be
curious just for my sake and anyone listening who's interested
as well, Like, so, I think it sounds like the
(11:17):
one you were describing already just prior that's more vertical
timing to get more vertical force through that lead leg.
What about and correct me if that's wrong, But then
like what about like if they want more horizontal or
tow heel, are there drills that you guys have curious
like an example of one of each of those for
people listening.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, first of we'll see what they need improving it, right,
do they need it in the vertical, do they need
the horizontal? And then if they needed the horizontal a
lot of size, what we'll do is we'll set them
up in that in that nice tall structure, maybe even
seated split stance, whatever they need, and then they'll use
the stick. We'll either grab we'll put our hands on
the very ends of the sticks. Sometimes we'll use a
(11:56):
longer stick or a shorter stick. We'll have them pull
apart on a stick, like they're trying to rip it apart.
Let's say we have them using a five foot stick.
We'll say, okay, pull apart on the stick. Let's make
that stick about five foot five inches right, not too
much longer, and then they'll pull the activate the whole
upper post to your chain, and then we'll say okay,
now disassociate, keep the head looking straight ahead, and now
(12:19):
rotate to the to the right. And then they're using
that post to your chain to pull themselves into rotation.
To improve that horizontal rotation.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
We can also have them push in on the stick
activate the ant your chain to come out of that rotation.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So we'd like to say, hey, pull yourself into that
horizontal rotation and then push yourself back to center right.
Or we may actually to use the stick into a
fixed point and have them isometrically push on that horizontal
plane and then get them to breathe too, because one
of the things that people do when they're trying to rotate.
If they can't rotate, they're gonna they're gonna hold their
(12:59):
breath and race right, So we want them to be
able to get into that rotational position, especially at their
end range motion, and then start to access that breathing
to help open everything up. And then over a period
of time, as they're getting more comfortable, they can control
their breathing pattern. All of a sudden you start to
see that t spine gop and open up a little
(13:20):
bit more right, and then get them a little bit
more comfortable. And really, for us, it's about owning your
end range. Right, where's your end range? And now can
you demonstrate force application in it? And can you become
comfortable in it and really breathe in and out of
that position?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Cool? And how do you guys, like for somebody who
you know, they buy the stick, they start working with it,
how do they assess like where that end range is?
How do they like, you know, I guess like from
how do they how do you recommend that people when
they start with it, they kind of say, all right,
this is where I'm at, and then you know, how
are they measuring their improvement or you know, how do
they know when they're at that end range.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So typically for the average person nowadays with smartphones, you
can film yourself. You can go through a drill. We
have tons of content online, so you can look at
one of our tea spine drills and go, okay, I'm
gonna try this one right, set up your camera, film
yourself doing it. You can get an idea visually of
where you went with the exercise. For us, as far
(14:19):
as feel, the level of discomfort when you get into
your end range is going to increase, of course, but
also when you ask your body to produce force in
an end range position that is not normally used to doing,
you're typically gonna cramp, right, So the muscles are going
to cramp up. That's when you know, okay, you're in
an area that needs a little bit more improvement. And
(14:42):
so as you get stronger and you start to own
that range of emotion a little bit more and you
repeat it, then that cramping dissipates, right, and so then
we know, okay, that has now become part of your
quote unquote normal range emotion or usable range emotion.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Very cool, very cool, And I guess I'm curious, as
you know people look to start a program, like what
do you typically see in terms of change results? Like
why do people do?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Is?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Do people come strictly just because they want to get
more mobile? You mentioned there's some strength elements, Like what
do people typically like? I guess what I'm asking is like,
who is this for? Is? To put it simple, it's for.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Everybody, whether you have back pain right or hip issues
where you're on the golf course, or simply just want
to access more ability to create more torque, whether it's
horizontally or vertically. Maybe you have some shoulder issues. We
can use the sticks to help bring some neural muscular control,
create some space in the shoulder joints of course, again,
(15:45):
so that's our first thing. That's why we do the
joint by joint articulations to help create some space back
in the joint. And then afterwards, Okay, now you've got
better tissue quality. Now let's use the stick to push
your pull on to now bring some neural us feel
controlled to those tissues that we just quote unquote gave
more range of motion.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
To awesome, And what sort of like timeframe, like when
people are using the system, like do they tend to
see improvement in and how long is it? Kind of
like they get to a point and then they're good,
do they something they continue in? Like a maintenance side
of things, what's the what's the general I guess quote
unquote protocol.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, well, if we're looking for improvement, that's the first
thing we want to see. Okay, we want to see
increases in angles, and then after that we want to
see of course the stripe aspect increase. So those are
your first two things. But everything's based off of consistency, right,
How consistent are you with the practice? And people always
ask us, well, how often can I use the stick?
(16:47):
And we always say, well, you can use it every day.
It's just it's self regulated, it's not externally loaded. It's
all internally driven, so you need movement every day. So yeah,
you can grab a stick, and whether it's fifteen minutes
of drills or whether you devote forty five minutes or
a full hour to it, that's up to what your
(17:08):
schedule allows, right, But we always tell our clients say,
at least give yourself fifteen to twenty minutes a day
and grab a stick, go through some drills, but we
want a little bit longer duration, more consistent effort for
we're trying to see vast improvement. Once we get vast improvement,
then yeah, after that, it's just about maintaining because we
(17:28):
know that the body's going to adapt to whatever stimulus
you give it, and then it adapts to whatever stimulus
you take away. So if you get from point A
to point B, but then you go back to point A,
that's not what we're looking for, right, So once you
get to that new destination, you're like, oh, man, I
got more range of motion. I feel great. Okay, well
you got to maintain it. Yeah, So you know, so
(17:50):
still be consistent and vigilant in that maintenance because what
do typically people typically do when we feel really good
is when we stop doing everything and then we're like, no,
but the things you did got you to that point,
So now prevent maintain, right, be proactive versus reactive. Now,
so don't go back to those old habits that got
(18:14):
you stuck in the first place.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, for sure. Well, and so yeah, the I think
one of the interesting things to me that I've seen is,
you know, I say, to your point, people will get
improvement pretty quickly when it comes to mobility. If they're
putting in fifteen to twenty minutes a day and they
know what they're doing, like, you know, things will improve.
You know, when we work with guys and girls, you know,
any age, really basically we're looking at you know, we
(18:39):
have like a you know, we're looking at hips, shoulders
t spell out all the roadary centers that you've mentioned.
How does somebody do you guys have kind of an
assessment protocol that people start with, Like what's the starting
point that they use? Or do they just kind of
pick a movement? You said obviously have a massive, like
online library of stuff. Do they pick one that they
feel like is, hey, I think that may be the
one that I need to work on. How do people
(19:01):
generally use use what you guys have to kind of
assess and then mark themselves from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But we usually tell our coaches anyone that takes our education,
hey use your own assessments, right, So all individuals have
their preferred ways of assessing people. For Neil and I,
what we start right away from watching the person walk
in the door walk towards us, what's their gay pattern? Like,
is that telling us right away? That tells us okay?
(19:29):
Is are there oblique slings? Are there spiral lines restricted? Right?
And if we see in their gay pattern that there's
restriction in the spiral lines or the t spine, okay,
then when they're standing talking to us casually without them knowing,
we're looking again, So what is their resting postures or
standing talking to us? Is the pelvis underneath them? Is
(19:49):
the pelvis behind them? Is it in front of them?
Is it in rotation when they're just standing just talking
to you without them knowing, Because that's when you want
to assess them, when they don't know that you're assessing
the right. So then we can say, okay, we can
look at that and say, okay, this person has a
post your pelvic tilt. This person has an ant to
your pelvic tilt. This person's hips at rest are rotated
(20:13):
to the left about maybe ten degrees even sometimes right,
maybe a little bit less. And then also that person
is standing there with hips rotated ten degrees to the left,
is the one saying my back is always killing me?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, yeah, yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Your hips are naturally rotated, you're twisted up down low,
so to speak. Right. So in that case, then we're
looking at Okay, we've got to approach the spiral lines
a little bit more, right, the lower spiral lines. One
lower spiral line from the foot up to the hip
is over exceeding the opposing spiral line, so to speak.
(20:48):
So now, okay, now let's kind of reverse that. Let's
reverse the process and get you back to a quote
unquote normal resting posture so to speak.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Awesome, cool, Well, I don't want to you know, most
people are getting to the end of their drive here,
so I want to make sure we get in before that,
before they get to their destination. What's the best place
for people to learn more about what you guys are doing,
you know, get more information. Check out the videos, check
out the system and the product. You know what's what's
the best place for them to get more information on
all that?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
YouTube? So stick Mobility TV on YouTube, please subscribe. We
have a ton of content on there. So we have
everything from a backlog of forty five minute workouts that
we started during the pandemic and we've just uploaded those
so they start I started right away about a week
into the pandemic, so they're very basic to start with.
(21:43):
And then they start to extrapolate out to more complex workouts.
So stick with the first workouts because those are the
most basics, but then you can also see different body parts. Say, Okay,
I want to open up my upper back. Okay, here's
a drill. Here's a series of drills that are specifically
that area. Whatever you're looking for on Instagram or stick mobility.
(22:05):
And then also for myself, I'm Diamond Physique SJ and
Neil is MV Strength on Instagram, and you'll see how
we apply the same principles that we use with the
stick in with any other tool that we use.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Awesome. That's awesome, and we'll make sure listen, we'll put
all that into the show notes for you, so you
guys can check that out. Definitely a great resource for
everyone here in the community. Dennis, I can't thank you
enough for bringing this to our community and in kind
of sitting down and taking some of your very valuable
time to connect. So thank you so much for coming
on today.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It was a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, for sure, all right, guys, Well, I appreciate you
hanging out with us today. Hopefully you picked up a
few nuggets there from Dennis and we look forward to
seeing you in the next episode.
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad podcast with Chris Finn,
a production of P for U S Golf. Welcome to
the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad. My name is Chris Finn.
I'm your host, and I'm excited today because we have
a little change up from We've obviously had a lot
of instructors on if you've been following along each each
week here each episode. This week I have a fellow
(00:23):
fitness guy. Finally, we have another fitness person on the pod.
So super excited to have Dennis Dumpy here with me today. Dennis,
for those of you who don't know, as co founder
of the Stick so it's one of it's a pretty
cool tool. We're going to talk a lot about that.
We're going to talk about how it could potentially help
you and your golf game. But welcome to the pod, Dennis.
(00:45):
I have you man, Chris, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's always a pleasure to be on a podcast, so
be looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, man, So I guess talk to me. I'm always
curious fellow entrepreneur, like like, how'd you like, where does
this come from? How'd you get to where you guys? Like,
what's kind of the origin story.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So Neil and I used to do stick stretching with
a chiropractor over in Santa Cruz, California, doctor Arthur Fagenholtz,
and he used to use ratan sticks to do some
stretching for his clients. So we learned from him on
how he applies the stick, and we looked at it
and went, okay, well, there's a lot of strength training
(01:24):
aspects that can be used with a stick, and we
love isometrics because they're very effective, very safe to use,
and so we said, hey, we're going to start creating
our own system, and he's like, hey, go for it.
So he's for him, it was just about using the
stick to stretch his clients, and for us, we figured, okay,
(01:45):
we can first of all show people joint by joint
mobilizations with the stick, and then also give him a
good amount of strength training, which most of our program
is actual strength training, and then we can finish off
with the active stretching, which is a big difference from
what most people do, which is typically passive stretching.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Awesome and so and for just everybody listening, who I
would say eight percent the probably have no idea the
difference between active versus passive stretching. Like, what's what's the difference.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, people typically passively stretch, which means they'll sit on
the flay down on the floor, they'll grab a leg
and stretch the hamstring and they'll just pull it up
and just lay there. For us, we want to use
that isometric contraction, So we want you to activate the
muscle tissue fibers with the connective tissue and fight against
that stretch or pull or into the stretch even more
(02:36):
so that way you're bringing some neuromuscular control to those
tissue lines. So that's the difference between passive and active,
and you'll feel it right away. So people that are
used to passive stretching, when we ask them to, hey,
so hey, do a little isometric contraction push against me,
pull against me. Then they're like, oh, that's a massive difference.
And in our case, we use the stick. So we'll
(02:58):
have the stick. We'll say okay, we'll them up into
a posture. Well say okay, now a sail and push
the stick away from you or pull the stick towards you,
And people's eyes light right up and they go, oh,
that's vastly different. Feel than what I'm used to. And
you're like, nah, this is a little bit more effective
than what you're typically used to.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, for sure, and and for and just to you know,
talk about you know, obviously there's three different types of
kind of contractions like isometric, ice connect Like what what
is just I always like to make sure everybody is
we're all speaking the same language, everybody listening understands, because
I think that's obviously a unique part of the system
you guys have built. So like what is isometric? And
(03:37):
you know, you very you know, astutely said it's very safe.
Like what's what what is isometric? And you know contraction
and how does that differ from you know, weightlifting or
you know those other types of things types of strength
training that people may be more familiar with just coming
out of like the eighties and nineties bodybuilding errors.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Right, So to me, typically most people are just doing
joint ranges of ocean with load.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So let's take an overhead press for example, So you're
just up and down with the arm with the weight
in the arm for us, So okay, we'll say, okay, well,
let's do a little bit of a hang to reverse
that pressing motion to engage the lad a little bit
more help open up that shoulder space. So we'll say, okay,
let's grab a stick, reach to the top. Now let's
drop into the hang. So we'll passively let them just
(04:23):
drop their body weight. They're gonna feel that grip intensified,
they're gonna feel their armline activate. And then from there
we'll say, okay, now let's push the stick into the
floor with that hand at about thirty forty percent of
your max effort, right, so on a scale of one
to ten, you're giving me like a three. And so
they'll push the stick down. We tell them to keep
the elbow straight and pushed down from the lat ribcage area.
(04:47):
And then they're like, oh, they'll feel the scalpule'll pull down,
they'll feel that lad engage. And then we're like, okay,
now now you're packing your shoulder right, and they'll be okay, well,
that's that's something that used to feeling. And then from
there we'll say, okay, let's add some rotation to that
while you continue to push the stick into the floor
to keep those tissues actually engaged versus sunning them down,
(05:11):
so to speak.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
For sure, So and in the system. I mean, how
does your guy, how do you guys approach a rotary athlete,
you know, specifically obsolutely golf. That's you know, obviously I'm
listening here is golfer. So we should probably talk about
that because they're about that side of things. It's like
when you guys come in and you get a golfer
and they you know, they want to, you know, use
(05:32):
the system, Like what sort of I guess different approach
might you take with them versus uh, you know, maybe
just a gen pop person or somebody who's you know,
just playing different sport all together.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well typically for a lot of golfers is I think
the the thing that the general golfer, the amateur golfer
doesn't realize is the amount of physical skills the professional
golfer has, right. And that's what sets professionals apart from
the rest of them normal people, right, is their skill
sets physically and mentally are far shuperior to ours.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So the average person who's sitting at the at their
desk all day or sitting on their couch then goes
up and get gets up to go play golf doesn't
have the same hip mobilization ability that the professional golfer has,
they may not have the T spine rotation, especially that
a professional golfer will have. So those are the aspects
(06:28):
that we're typically looking to attack. First, we want to
make sure that number one, the hips are buttery, as
some people would say. And number two, we want to
make sure that your T spine rotation is what it
needs to be, that you have that ability to rotate
the T spine in and out of your sling.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, for sure. And I guess what are the I
guess Obviously when we work with log golfers, we get
you know, juniors eight nine, ten years old all the
way to we got al who's he's probably the oldest
guy at the gym right now, he's ninety four, I think, so,
so why it's range? And then we got obviously long
drive guys swinging one hundred and sixty miles an hour.
(07:06):
How does you know based on you know, obviously we
have wide variety of people listen, So can you go
into like, how does maybe a junior look at utilizing
it versus you know, maybe somebody in their fifties, sixties
versus somebody who's elite right playing PGA tour. You know,
trying to maybe go world long drive, so they're swinging
(07:27):
you know, double that and basically like how does how
does how does the implementation potentially change? Or how should
people think about where to potentially implement it, you know,
based on where they're at.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I think for like a younger person who's still developing,
then we can use the stick to help them understand
more of that physical development that they're going through. We
see kids as they as they're growing up, they may
need a little bit of help coordinating some movements they're
growing into their they're growing, so we sometimes see that
(08:02):
as that's taking place, they get a little clumsy. They
don't know how to deal with those new lever lengths
that they're growing and developing. So we can use the
stick as a really great way to close chain at
that development and help them really move smoothly in and
out of their motions. For an older person fifty sixty
years of age, like I said a little bit earlier before,
(08:23):
we want to make sure that everything's moving well. We
want to make sure that those hips have no internal
and external rotation. We want to help them understand what
shifting weight is from side to side, and then we
want to make sure that the ribcage and the spine
moved relatively well, right, and therefore your highly skilled professional athlete.
(08:45):
A lot of times we can use that just to
help access more drive internally, either loading into that backswing
or accessing greater ground force coming out of the backswing.
One of the things that a lot of golfers, especially amateurs,
don't get is ground force reaction. It's necessary. We see
(09:07):
a lot of golfers and a lot of general population
when you ask them to swing, it's completely upper body dominant, right,
the hips are the hips are non existent, and so
they really don't understand ground force just because they haven't
really used it in so long. So for us it's
a great tool to We can set them up into
(09:28):
that rotation with the stick in the ground and say, okay,
now push the stick into the ground a little bit
more dynamically, and then as they push down, they should
feel that inside leg drive into the ground also, and say, Okay,
that's your ground force reaction that you're looking for. So
that way, you're using that propulsion from the ground like
you should be, versus trying to just dominate through the
(09:50):
upper torso right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, I mean we're big. You know, we've done
a ton of research in the ground force. We've got
two sets of dual plates and so I'm very curious
just this. Now I'm getting selfish here, so everyone listening
just bear along with me. Yeah, the you know, obviously
there's the three different forces, right, You've got the horizontal,
the vertical, and the tow heel or you know, torsional,
depending who you talk to what they want to call it.
(10:13):
So obviously, obviously, you know, how would somebody leverage you know,
for us in our you know, when we work with people,
we talk a lot about Obviously, the first part is
you got to get mobile in the four rotary centers.
You know, that's obviously you know mobility. Then there's obviously
a strength component. You've got to be strong enough to move.
But then once people have there's a lot of people
that will get to the point where they're they move
(10:33):
how they're supposed to. They're as strong as they need
to be relative to how fast they're going to be swinging.
At the next level, we then go to as we
call it transfer training. So basically, how do we train
in the gym to the ground forces to get them
to transfer to the actual specific activity of the golf swing.
So if you have somebody who and we've got people
that sometimes it's more vertical timing of they're too late
(10:55):
or they just suck at producing that anyway, maybe they're
horror Zontalds aren't good, you know, maybe they just or
maybe the obviously depending on the player, they may be
more dominant or they're they may have more one may
be more of a preference than the other in terms
of how they create speed just naturally, So I'd be
curious just for my sake and anyone listening who's interested
as well, Like, so, I think it sounds like the
(11:17):
one you were describing already just prior that's more vertical
timing to get more vertical force through that lead leg.
What about and correct me if that's wrong, But then
like what about like if they want more horizontal or
tow heel, are there drills that you guys have curious
like an example of one of each of those for
people listening.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, first of we'll see what they need improving it, right,
do they need it in the vertical, do they need
the horizontal? And then if they needed the horizontal a
lot of size, what we'll do is we'll set them
up in that in that nice tall structure, maybe even
seated split stance, whatever they need, and then they'll use
the stick. We'll either grab we'll put our hands on
the very ends of the sticks. Sometimes we'll use a
(11:56):
longer stick or a shorter stick. We'll have them pull
apart on a stick, like they're trying to rip it apart.
Let's say we have them using a five foot stick.
We'll say, okay, pull apart on the stick. Let's make
that stick about five foot five inches right, not too
much longer, and then they'll pull the activate the whole
upper post to your chain, and then we'll say okay,
now disassociate, keep the head looking straight ahead, and now
(12:19):
rotate to the to the right. And then they're using
that post to your chain to pull themselves into rotation.
To improve that horizontal rotation.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
We can also have them push in on the stick
activate the ant your chain to come out of that rotation.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So we'd like to say, hey, pull yourself into that
horizontal rotation and then push yourself back to center right.
Or we may actually to use the stick into a
fixed point and have them isometrically push on that horizontal
plane and then get them to breathe too, because one
of the things that people do when they're trying to rotate.
If they can't rotate, they're gonna they're gonna hold their
(12:59):
breath and race right, So we want them to be
able to get into that rotational position, especially at their
end range motion, and then start to access that breathing
to help open everything up. And then over a period
of time, as they're getting more comfortable, they can control
their breathing pattern. All of a sudden you start to
see that t spine gop and open up a little
(13:20):
bit more right, and then get them a little bit
more comfortable. And really, for us, it's about owning your
end range. Right, where's your end range? And now can
you demonstrate force application in it? And can you become
comfortable in it and really breathe in and out of
that position?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Cool? And how do you guys, like for somebody who
you know, they buy the stick, they start working with it,
how do they assess like where that end range is?
How do they like, you know, I guess like from
how do they how do you recommend that people when
they start with it, they kind of say, all right,
this is where I'm at, and then you know, how
are they measuring their improvement or you know, how do
they know when they're at that end range.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So typically for the average person nowadays with smartphones, you
can film yourself. You can go through a drill. We
have tons of content online, so you can look at
one of our tea spine drills and go, okay, I'm
gonna try this one right, set up your camera, film
yourself doing it. You can get an idea visually of
where you went with the exercise. For us, as far
(14:19):
as feel, the level of discomfort when you get into
your end range is going to increase, of course, but
also when you ask your body to produce force in
an end range position that is not normally used to doing,
you're typically gonna cramp, right, So the muscles are going
to cramp up. That's when you know, okay, you're in
an area that needs a little bit more improvement. And
(14:42):
so as you get stronger and you start to own
that range of emotion a little bit more and you
repeat it, then that cramping dissipates, right, and so then
we know, okay, that has now become part of your
quote unquote normal range emotion or usable range emotion.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Very cool, very cool, And I guess I'm curious, as
you know people look to start a program, like what
do you typically see in terms of change results? Like
why do people do?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Is?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Do people come strictly just because they want to get
more mobile? You mentioned there's some strength elements, Like what
do people typically like? I guess what I'm asking is like,
who is this for? Is? To put it simple, it's for.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Everybody, whether you have back pain right or hip issues
where you're on the golf course, or simply just want
to access more ability to create more torque, whether it's
horizontally or vertically. Maybe you have some shoulder issues. We
can use the sticks to help bring some neural muscular control,
create some space in the shoulder joints of course, again,
(15:45):
so that's our first thing. That's why we do the
joint by joint articulations to help create some space back
in the joint. And then afterwards, Okay, now you've got
better tissue quality. Now let's use the stick to push
your pull on to now bring some neural us feel
controlled to those tissues that we just quote unquote gave
more range of motion.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
To awesome, And what sort of like timeframe, like when
people are using the system, like do they tend to
see improvement in and how long is it? Kind of
like they get to a point and then they're good,
do they something they continue in? Like a maintenance side
of things, what's the what's the general I guess quote
unquote protocol.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, well, if we're looking for improvement, that's the first
thing we want to see. Okay, we want to see
increases in angles, and then after that we want to
see of course the stripe aspect increase. So those are
your first two things. But everything's based off of consistency, right,
How consistent are you with the practice? And people always
ask us, well, how often can I use the stick?
(16:47):
And we always say, well, you can use it every day.
It's just it's self regulated, it's not externally loaded. It's
all internally driven, so you need movement every day. So yeah,
you can grab a stick, and whether it's fifteen minutes
of drills or whether you devote forty five minutes or
a full hour to it, that's up to what your
(17:08):
schedule allows, right, But we always tell our clients say,
at least give yourself fifteen to twenty minutes a day
and grab a stick, go through some drills, but we
want a little bit longer duration, more consistent effort for
we're trying to see vast improvement. Once we get vast improvement,
then yeah, after that, it's just about maintaining because we
(17:28):
know that the body's going to adapt to whatever stimulus
you give it, and then it adapts to whatever stimulus
you take away. So if you get from point A
to point B, but then you go back to point A,
that's not what we're looking for, right, So once you
get to that new destination, you're like, oh, man, I
got more range of motion. I feel great. Okay, well
you got to maintain it. Yeah, So you know, so
(17:50):
still be consistent and vigilant in that maintenance because what
do typically people typically do when we feel really good
is when we stop doing everything and then we're like, no,
but the things you did got you to that point,
So now prevent maintain, right, be proactive versus reactive. Now,
so don't go back to those old habits that got
(18:14):
you stuck in the first place.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, for sure. Well, and so yeah, the I think
one of the interesting things to me that I've seen is,
you know, I say, to your point, people will get
improvement pretty quickly when it comes to mobility. If they're
putting in fifteen to twenty minutes a day and they
know what they're doing, like, you know, things will improve.
You know, when we work with guys and girls, you know,
any age, really basically we're looking at you know, we
(18:39):
have like a you know, we're looking at hips, shoulders
t spell out all the roadary centers that you've mentioned.
How does somebody do you guys have kind of an
assessment protocol that people start with, Like what's the starting
point that they use? Or do they just kind of
pick a movement? You said obviously have a massive, like
online library of stuff. Do they pick one that they
feel like is, hey, I think that may be the
one that I need to work on. How do people
(19:01):
generally use use what you guys have to kind of
assess and then mark themselves from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But we usually tell our coaches anyone that takes our education,
hey use your own assessments, right, So all individuals have
their preferred ways of assessing people. For Neil and I,
what we start right away from watching the person walk
in the door walk towards us, what's their gay pattern? Like,
is that telling us right away? That tells us okay?
(19:29):
Is are there oblique slings? Are there spiral lines restricted? Right?
And if we see in their gay pattern that there's
restriction in the spiral lines or the t spine, okay,
then when they're standing talking to us casually without them knowing,
we're looking again, So what is their resting postures or
standing talking to us? Is the pelvis underneath them? Is
(19:49):
the pelvis behind them? Is it in front of them?
Is it in rotation when they're just standing just talking
to you without them knowing, Because that's when you want
to assess them, when they don't know that you're assessing
the right. So then we can say, okay, we can
look at that and say, okay, this person has a
post your pelvic tilt. This person has an ant to
your pelvic tilt. This person's hips at rest are rotated
(20:13):
to the left about maybe ten degrees even sometimes right,
maybe a little bit less. And then also that person
is standing there with hips rotated ten degrees to the left,
is the one saying my back is always killing me?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, yeah, yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Your hips are naturally rotated, you're twisted up down low,
so to speak. Right. So in that case, then we're
looking at Okay, we've got to approach the spiral lines
a little bit more, right, the lower spiral lines. One
lower spiral line from the foot up to the hip
is over exceeding the opposing spiral line, so to speak.
(20:48):
So now, okay, now let's kind of reverse that. Let's
reverse the process and get you back to a quote
unquote normal resting posture so to speak.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Awesome, cool, Well, I don't want to you know, most
people are getting to the end of their drive here,
so I want to make sure we get in before that,
before they get to their destination. What's the best place
for people to learn more about what you guys are doing,
you know, get more information. Check out the videos, check
out the system and the product. You know what's what's
the best place for them to get more information on
all that?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
YouTube? So stick Mobility TV on YouTube, please subscribe. We
have a ton of content on there. So we have
everything from a backlog of forty five minute workouts that
we started during the pandemic and we've just uploaded those
so they start I started right away about a week
into the pandemic, so they're very basic to start with.
(21:43):
And then they start to extrapolate out to more complex workouts.
So stick with the first workouts because those are the
most basics, but then you can also see different body parts. Say, Okay,
I want to open up my upper back. Okay, here's
a drill. Here's a series of drills that are specifically
that area. Whatever you're looking for on Instagram or stick mobility.
(22:05):
And then also for myself, I'm Diamond Physique SJ and
Neil is MV Strength on Instagram, and you'll see how
we apply the same principles that we use with the
stick in with any other tool that we use.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Awesome. That's awesome, and we'll make sure listen, we'll put
all that into the show notes for you, so you
guys can check that out. Definitely a great resource for
everyone here in the community. Dennis, I can't thank you
enough for bringing this to our community and in kind
of sitting down and taking some of your very valuable
time to connect. So thank you so much for coming
on today.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It was a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, for sure, all right, guys, Well, I appreciate you
hanging out with us today. Hopefully you picked up a
few nuggets there from Dennis and we look forward to
seeing you in the next episode.
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