April 25, 2024 • 28 mins
Does it feel like people have forgotten about basic table manners??
Tyler and Wells have plenty of pet peeves regarding dining etiquette, from people showing up late to a dinner party to not reading the room! It's a good thing etiquette expert, Netflix star, and "Mind Your Manners" author Sara Jane Ho is on the pod with basic 'do's and don'ts' for the dinner table! Pull up a chair for some piping-hot tips you don't want to miss!
Sara Jane Ho's new book, "Mind Your Manners," is available now!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's two dudes in a kitchen with Tyler Florence.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Wells Adams an iHeartRadio podcast. That's right, you're listening
to two dudes in a kitchen. It's Well's Adam's hanging
out with Tyler Florence. How are you, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I am great, my friend. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm doing amazing? Man.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know, It's been a while since I've been over
to your restaurant, Miller and Lux, but I do want
to go again. But as I'm thinking about your restaurant,
I was wondering, do you have any pet peeves when
it comes to patrons and etiquette at your restaurant.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, first of all, I think the term pet peeve
is super kind of funny because if it's something that
annoys you, why would you want it as a pet.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, we should look up the etymology of that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You know, I want to show at the door. But
I do think in a lot of ways, there's things
you can do and things you definitely don't want to
do that are going to turn the volume up or
turn the volume down. With your physical presence sitting at
a table having dinner. For sure, you got to do
a couple of things and I try to preach it
to my children. You've got to read the room. Yeah, right,
(01:03):
what is the tone of the conversation, what people are
talking about? Uh, turn your filter on in your head.
Not everything that you're thinking is the right thing to say?
Could be it could it could bomb what you're about,
the what you're thinking right now that you think is
funny could totally just fall in deaf ears. So really
think it through, right and then and then I think
(01:23):
you'll want to be just really really care careful and
cautious about being self aware, right like are you like
are you drizzling sauce all over the tablecloth? Are you
being unnecessarily loud? Are you being respectful to the white staff?
Are you being part of the conversation? Are you are
you eating all the food?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And so I think in a lot of ways you
just got to have to just sort of read the
room and kind of be a part of the situation
and then know how to pivot if if you've got
to turn the volume up or turn the volume down.
And then also I think as a partner to somebody,
I think you've got to have that maybe some code
words or it's like a win or something, you know
what I.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Mean, the grabbing of the leg and ooh yeah, less
please less yeah less.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I used to have We have this couple friend and
in la to be nameless because I'm sure they less,
but her husband is kind of like a live wire
when we go out, and then she would always look
at him with full like you know, from the diaphragm.
She goes, you're at a ten and everybody wants you
at a six.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, you're here. We need you down here.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Everybody wants you. You're here, everybody wants you to here,
and then she would just start saying less, less, yeah, less,
less of all everything you're doing now less.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh funny. Turned down the volume.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know, it's funny when I was thinking about this
episode and etiquette. I grew up with parents who were
very strict about things that you should and shouldn't do
at a dinner dinner table, and we also always had
dinner parties, and so I always had to be I
was with the adults when I.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was very very young.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And one thing that's really stuck with me, and it
doesn't even matter, but it's something that like my father
used to ingrain and me and my siblings, and now
when I hear it, it absolutely greats My gears is don't
say can I get?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
But ask me I please have?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And I don't know, and it's I know it's stupid
and it's it's semantics, really, but may I please have?
Is so much softer than can I get? And then
the other thing that's that's more recent that has bugged me,
And now that I'm a member of a golf club
where you're not allowed to bring cell phones, it's kind
of nice. I really, if you're gonna bring your cell
(03:37):
phone into something that's that's fine, but I think that
it should be faced down. And there's nothing that kind
of bugs me more is that when I'm having a
conversation with somebody and all of a sudden they see
their phone light up and then they're no longer kind
of interested in what I'm saying. Those are two pieces
of etiquette that I try to live by. But I
don't know. Maybe I'm like the old I get off
your long guy. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I a thousand percent. I don't think there's anything that
says I'm not fully engaged in this conversation than somebody's
cell phone on the table. Yeah, excuse me if it
vibrates in your pocket, or you got to take a
phone call, or you've got you know, kids that are
kind of right in the middle of something, you know,
being handed off on sports events or or homework, or
you just need to be on while you're at a
(04:19):
business dinner. Totally understand happens all the time. We're all parents,
I get it. But if you're just like in a
social situation where your phone is just on and you're
kind of like half watching, half listening, I kind of
start tuning those people out and it kind of just
I talk to them less. Ye, right, I don't really
engage with them because they're not engaging with me totally.
So you get the energy that you put out in
(04:41):
the room. And if and my son does it all
the time. He'll walk into a room with one AirPod
in his ear. Oh yeah, Like, who, bro, you're sixteen,
Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Who are you talking to? What are you listening to?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
What are you talking to? Is more important than this
right here? Right? Like we are at the party, doing
the coolest thing with the coolest people, and you're saying
everybody in the room, I'm sorry, I'm busy right now, what.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Do you what do you listen to the other thing
that you might not agree with me on I'm not sure.
I was raised in a if you're on time, you're
late situation, so punctuality for me is very, very key.
And I once got into a big argument with a
guy I played played rugby with who's always late to
the bus.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
When we'd like go on, you know, away games and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I would say to him, I can't stand it
that you're always late. You know, you're holding all of
this up for one But the other thing is I
think it's really selfish. And he would say, how is
me being late being selfish? And I would say, well,
you constantly being late implies that you think that your
time is more valuable than mine and.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Then all of ours. And I don't love that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And I think it's something that you know, we all,
at least I think most guys deal with, like your
wives are always late, and you're always like, come.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
On baby, let's come on baby.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We're like, you know, like lying about when the when
the start time is so you can get there on time.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But I do think it's something to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Is your implication of that you think that you are
more important than other people is something that I think
people pick up on a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
YEP. And I think being I mean late for a
dinner and then being egregiously late for a dinner. Like
we we had this one family who we loved to
death who got lopped off the Thanksgiving guess because they
would show up an hour and a half late. Yeah,
that they would show an our and a half late, and
like we're already, you know. It's like we're literally just
(06:23):
like rearrange the table, you know, because there was like
four big holes there and and you know, and they're like,
how come we're not invited to thanks Can any more?
Because you don't get here on time. It's weird. It's
like it's like, you know what I mean, we give
you an invitation six months in advance, clear your day out. Yeah, what,
I don't whatever it is. But then then the other thing,
I think it's also equally as rude, but may not
(06:46):
the the the point of it may come from a
good place that if you get to someone's dinner party
too early because you want to go, I'm gonna get
there and help.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Don't do that either, Yeah, because then then I have
to stop what I'm doing and I kind of have
to like sub entertain you.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Wow, I'm just trying to, like, you know, kind of
finish up your nerves or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, showing up right on time is kind of weird
to some people. I realize that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So we kind of usually shoot for the ten seven
to ten minute late thing. That's what I try to do,
at least, because I hate when I'm when I'm hosting
and I say, Okay, everyone come over at one o'clock
and all of a sudden one thirty, I'm like, where
is everybody? Like I just made this thing like just
for everyone in nose and now it's going cold. Anyways,
in case you guys haven't figured out, today's episode is
all about etiquette, and today we're gonna be talking with
(07:33):
Sarah Jane Hoe.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Sarah is a Harvard business grad, a Netflix star, and
a manners expert. She has a new book out called
Mind Your Manners, and her motto is above all, etiquette
is about putting people at ease, that includes yourself. Social
anxiety is something that a lot of people are dealing
with and sometimes knowing what to do when you get
into a room can help ease some of that anxiety.
(07:55):
We are very excited to jump into this topic when
we come back con Two Dudes in the Kitchen, it's
Sarah Jane Hoe, stick around. Welcome back to Two Dudes
in the Kitchen. Very excited to have on the show.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Sarah Jane Ho.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
She has a new book out called Mind Your Manners,
all about etiquette and putting other people at ease when
you go and have to be social. You've always probably
also seen her all over Netflix. Sarah Jane Oh, thank
you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Thank you for having me. Boys.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So, the new book, Mind Your Manners, all about etiquette
putting people at ease, and that includes yourself. So tell
us one, what is the main thing people can get
out of reading your book.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I guess the one thing is social fluency. In the book,
I like to talk about how I see myself when
I practice etiquette. As a microcultural anthropologist, I'm going to
say that again, a microcultural anthropologist. Anthropology is the study
of human behavior, and in our day we move through
(09:07):
various microcultures in our home and our office. Different sets
of friends, different departments of your office can have different microcultures. Right,
maybe the advertising department's more rowdy, accounting department is more quiet.
So it's all about every time I meet somebody new,
or I'm in a new situation or a new context,
I'm thinking, I see myself as an anthropologist in the
(09:29):
field where it's observation. So I'm thinking, I'm studying what
are the codes of conduct here? How are people dressed,
how are people speaking, what is their tone of voice?
What slang are they using? And as I'm observing, I'm
slightly adapting myself, and I'm not changing myself. I'm no
longer me, right, I mean, I still have the same values,
(09:51):
same personality, But it's just about adapting myself so that
other people feel comfortable around me, which makes me feel
comfortable around them, which is actually what makes it human,
that sense of belonging community.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So I love that, and I usually describe myself as
a chameleon. And that's because when I was a radio
host back in the day, I had to do a
morning show for an alternative station, so that was one
very specific type of demographic. Then I did an afternoon
drive show on a classic rock station, which was older,
(10:24):
and that listenership was much different, and then at night
I did a pop show, and so I always had
to kind of change who I was to kind of
emulate who the audience was. And I like what you're
saying is when you you know, you come into a
new situation to kind of like I guess, you know,
survey the circumstances, and then you know, act accordingly. But
(10:48):
one thing that I think that I would have an
issue with was feeling inauthentic because I'm trying to make
everyone else feel comfortable and then I'm no longer being myself.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, and that's just a balance that you have to strike,
which is why I often tell people go out more right, like,
especially now with this rise in the digital age, we're
all hiding behind our screens, and then you had the
pandemic hit. So I'm telling people get out there, accept
that dinner invitation, invite somebody else to something, and the
(11:22):
more you put yourself out there, the more you'll be
able to the more you feel comfortable in those situations.
But you'll also be able to know how to strike
that balance of Okay, I'm considerate, but also I'm at ease,
because you have to be at ease if you're on
at ease. Other people pick up on that and they
will beaut ease.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I completely agree, especially coming out of the pandemic right
because I think there was a social fluency and I
love the way you described that they kind of felt
like the norm because my wife and I we went
to parties all the time, Like we literally, you know,
most weekends, there was an imitation to go do something
either with friends or at someone's house, or we were entertaining,
(12:00):
so we were kind of we had that muscle memory
of how to kind of ride it up and down.
And sometimes we were throwing like a barbecue in our
backyard for our teenagers and it was kind of like
a poll party. Sometimes it was a very formal dinner
situation with with a politician. We've hosted, you know, fundraisers
at our house over the years, and and then all
of a sudden the pandemic hit and then no one
(12:21):
did anything for what felt like years and then have
to kind of move back into a social situation. I
think a lot of people are out of practice on
how to walk into a room. And I say this
to my children all the time, because they could walk
in and like, you want to feel comfortable anywhere, like
For example, we went to a wedding on Saturday, a
family wedding, and then my sixteen year old son had
(12:42):
to wear this new suit that I just bought him
and and and he wanted to wear Jordan's with it, right,
And like, the answer is no, you know you're not
You're not gonna You're not gonna do that right because
it's a formal situation and you got to read the
room right. If it was your buddies thing whatever and
you want to go high low, or if it felt
(13:03):
like a fun thing to do with the promp because
all your friends are wearing Jordan's great, but you're not
going to go to a formal wedding and you're not
going to wear those shoes. So I think this just
feels like such a good message for so many people
that feel like they want to just kind of get
back out there and they need a refresher course on
how to feel like they belong in the room, whatever
(13:24):
room that is.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yes, And that's why I always say etiquette, there's no
right or wrong. It's more contextual, and so it really
depends on who you're with, what country you're in, right,
what's that culture and knowing how things are done that way.
That's really what's like the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
This conversation just reminds me of the scene in Pretty Women,
but also the scene in Titanic when Jack's like, what
fork do I use? And the unsinkable Molly Brown says,
just start from the outside and go in. And I
love that piece of advice because I kind of grew
up in a very posh household, and so I was
taught like, what, you know, what your salad fork was
(14:06):
and embarrassing to your dinner fork, and YadA, YadA, YadA.
I guess, like, really quick, what are some like baseline
things that people should know in terms of etiquette that
might not just be like common knowledge.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, well, let's start with the dinner table, because that's
where so many people get things wrong. I would say, well,
first of all, when you sit down, the fust thing
you should do is put your napkin in your lap,
or you follow your host's lead, but let's say there's
no specific host, then you put your napkin on your lap.
And the other thing that is that you should wait
till everybody's food is on the table before picking up
(14:44):
your cutlery to start eating your own.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Food.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Usually, if there's a host, we wait for the host
and hostess who will wait for everybody to be stoved
before they start eating. And once they start eating, that
means everybody else can start eating. But no, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
What happens if the host is ever eat You know
it's gonna get colder?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Whatever is it? Are you? Should you still be like no,
I'm going to wait for everyone? Or do you just
got permission acquiesced?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And also I've also heard the other one of like,
if people next to you have food, then you should
start eating.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Uh it, well, it depends how big the dinner is.
If it's two hundred people, then it's hot for you
to gauge. If everybody has been served and you can
focus on other people, but more than just next to you,
I mean, i'd say around you. But if it's an
eight person dinner, ten person dinner, you can see everybody's plate,
then you should wait for everybody. And in fact, but
it's a host duty. I think it's very considerate. And
(15:38):
I'll say that too when when hosts encourage people to eat, right,
so when saying please, like the food is hot, please
start eating, and just like Tyler said, you have permission,
and that means you actually should start eating, because otherwise
than the host is dressing out because they totally eat
and you're not eating.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Now, if you are the host, what are some things
that you should be doing? One telling people to eat,
I suppose, or or be maybe the first person to
put the nap in their lab. But should you always
be someone who you know, gives the toast before the
meal starts?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
What? What are some things that the host needs to know?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I always like it when the host says a few
words at the beginning because it just you know, things
need to have a start and a middle and an end,
whether it's a conversation or whether it's a dinner party.
So I usually before the first course is served, as
if I'm a host, I will raise my glass and
I'll say, even if it's something simple like you know,
I'm so happy everybody got together, and you know what,
(16:34):
he doesn't even need to necessarily celebrating something, just say
a couple of words. The host actually has a very
big duty because what people, what makes the most, what
makes or breaks a dinner is the conversation. So you know,
the food can be subpa it can be a hole
in the wall. It can be maybe the lighting, music, whatever,
(16:55):
But if the conversation is not good, people won't have
a good time, like you can have everything else. Let's
say be perfect, the lighting is perfect, the food's perfect,
but if conversation is dull, people will be like, oh,
that was so dull.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And that's how you can save a bad dinner too, right,
because you can joke about how awkward the evening is. Right,
like somebody picked this restaurant and the food's terrible, or
came out late, or something was cold, or the waiter
dropped the glass on your table. All these things could
possibly happen, but you could save this with really good conversation.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Right, And so you can use humor to deflect. But
the point is that the host is like the conductor
of an orchestra. As a host, it's important for you
to ensure that everybody has had a chance to speak.
I like to think of every guest as a as
a rosebud. You have to help each guest blossom, right,
and so part of blossoming is helping them ask, is
asking them open questions and making sure that nobody is
(17:47):
hogging the microphone, right, that everybody has an equal opportunity
to say their share. And if you see that somebody
is quiet, then then coaxing them out of their shell.
If you see somebody's loud, then almost you know, like
just sort of tapping them down, managing them and all
these things. And then if a conversations boring, I mean,
you kind of have to spice it up right all
(18:09):
these things. Conversation is the number one most important thing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Are there any tricks to spicing up conversation? I or
like games or something or something that people can do
to make things more entertaining.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
My favorite is Two truths and a Lie, And it's
where everybody goes around and says three statements and everybody
else has to. So one pustes three statements and one
of them is a lie, and everybody has to guess
which lie it is, and then if you guess wrong,
you drink. But also what I like to say is
sometimes I'll start off with something that's kind of inflammatory
or exciting. If I know that one of my guests
(18:44):
just did something really crazy like bungee jumping or you know,
was or you know, just something that's like very that
is exciting, then I'll put it out there. I'll be like, oh, Tyler,
I heard you went bungee jumping. Tell us all about it, right,
and then everybody will be really intrigued by that. Tyler,
I just asked stilette open question because it requires several
(19:04):
sentences from to antso and you know so, and sometimes
you want a little bit of conflict between some guests, right,
you want.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
To Yeah, especially they're rolling with with my neck brace
and my broken arm.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah. I think it's smart.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like I mean, obviously, I interview people for a living,
so like I do research and I find out about them.
But I think it's good if you especially if you're
a host, but even if you're going to a place
and not the host to Now everyone's on social media,
so you can do a quick amount of research just
through social media, and it would be like, oh, yeah, Tyler,
(19:37):
I saw that you you know, you recently hosted, you know,
a cooking event in New Orleans. I've never been New Orleans.
Tell what was the best part, you know whatever. It
makes it so much easier, and then it's not so
creepy because you're like, well, I follow you on social media,
and I saw that you went skydiving, and that seems fun.
But I do like the idea. I never thought of it.
I guess I naturally do this when we host dinner parties.
(20:00):
But being the conductor and really kind of allowing everyone
to shine.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Is such a good little tip.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And it's funny because I think of when I when
my wife and myself, we host, so much pressures put
on us to make sure everyone's having a good time.
But you can kind of put that pressure on other
people in terms of them telling stories, and all you
have to do is really kind of just like tee
it up so they can hit the home run.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, and I haven't feel that as a host, you
should be speaking the least. Yeah, you can remember, like
a conductor, you're kind of divoting attention, but you should
be speaking the least. It's really the worst host of
the one who's just talked endlessly about themselves.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I talk for a living, so that might be me.
And I'm learning a lot about.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Myself and how I act. And this is tough, I
gotta tell you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think that's really interesting. So I got I met
I did some fundraising for Barack Obama twice, and I
met the president's wise and although we were on his
planning committee and his fundraising committee. The man meets thousands
of people a week, right, So there is a there
is a line, right, a velvet rope line into a
(21:13):
private section to meet the president. And then there was
a little bit of gap in between one guest that
would go in and have there five minutes with the
president and then say something, and then they would leave,
and then they would escort a new you know, couple
in to get their picture taken. And I got a
chance to meet somebody on his chief not the chief
of staff, with somebody in the staff who coordinated that.
(21:36):
And there was a moment where they got a chance
to have all the information needed to say, mister President,
you're about to meet so and so, here's the last
time you met him. This is what they do for
a living. Here's his wife's name, they have three children,
they live here, go and the rest is kind of improvised, right.
And so now my chief of staff, Donna, has been
(21:57):
moving for like fourteen years. When I go to a meeting,
she preps me and I kind of do the same
thing for a dinner party. I want to know who's
in the room. Just what you both of you guys
were saying earlier. I think being prepared simulates conversation because
you kind of know who they are, and you had
a chance to look them up on social media, so
got a little background about what happened to them five
minutes ago. And then all of a sudden, you're you're
(22:19):
you're very much like in the zone of the room itself,
and you're you're ready to just sort of be present
because you did your homework right. Walking in what I
like to say ice cold to me is always sort
of treacherous because then you have to just sort of
improvise all of it versus having a little intel. So
that's my thing. If you're going to a dinner party
or you're hosting, hosting dinner party is the most important
(22:40):
thing because if you just go to one, you don't
really know who's going to be there. But if you're hosting,
make it just take take an hour, look everybody up right,
and then that way you kind of walk into the
room or they walk into your room, you're happy to
meet them, good to see you. How's your wife? Tell
me about your children? They're in tenth grade? How's the
football thing going? And then you can kind of pull
them out and you're right, you give them the floor
(23:02):
and give them the full sunshine. I completely agree with that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I wanted to ask you about post Malone. I guess
that he You guys didn't know that's where this was going.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But this is cool.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So post Blone called you up to help him properly gate.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
He did not do that.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
He did not did that.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
No. So there's a photo on my Instagram at me
and Chris Malone holding chopsticks up to the camera.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
We met through friends. I joined so he was hed
his Asia tour in September and I was at Singapore
F one and he headlined F one and one of
my childhood friends is good friends with him. So I
joined them and their crew for Singapore and for Hong Kong,
where I'm originally from. So I joined for a little
(23:52):
bit of that Asia tour and it was so fantastic.
It was so incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And that photo on my Instagram that people love to
ask me about is from a Chinese restaurant that I
took him and the rest of the crew too. And
when everybody sat down, there are two pairs of chopsticks.
So there's your plate and there's two pairs of chopsticks.
Everybody was confused. All the Westerns were confused, and Posty asks, oh,
(24:19):
there are two sets of chopsticks, which one do I use?
And so I explained to every of the table. The
outer chopstick is the one that you use to take
food from the lazy susan and from the communal plate
and put on your dish. And then you switch to
the inner chopstick, which is what you used to pick
it up and put it in your mouth. So that
way you have a private set of chopstick that goes
(24:39):
to your mouth, and the outside one is the clean one.
And I just thought, you know the fact that so
you're sitting there, ten people have no idea what this is.
Only one person only Posty asks this, and I think, yeah,
because we will call it because and so I just thought,
what a co it in and secure an inquisitive and
(25:02):
curious person and consider a person.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
He wasn't afraid of showing what he didn't know. He
wanted to understand the culture and understand like which topstick
should be using, and he's and and now and everybody
learned because of his question.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
That's absolutely amazing And I love that It's It's like
it's like the Westerners version of like double dipping the chip.
Can't you only one dip and then then you're done?
You can't go back in for a second one.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Same with that.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You can't be touching chopsticks that have been in your mouth.
You can't be touching other both food.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I love that. It's good.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Why because it's not proper etiquette. That's right, that's right,
because it's not proper eticut let me tell you. But
then it's really funny. This podcast was scheduled because I
just got this in the mail yesterday. Such a fan
of vintage books. But I just got Emily Posts.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I love Emily Post, love all his stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is our best friend's color posty, you have best.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Friends color posting. But I just got this book and
I haven't read it, but I'm so excited about diving
into this because it's written in nineteen forty five, right,
and it's the Bible on until your book came out.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
But I love I love all her books. She just
and what I love is that she actually made it
a point to eat with her elbows on the table,
to show that that's not what etiuette is all about.
People think etiquette is just you know, which fork, which knife.
But it's so much deeper than that. I just love her.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And she said it's okay to eat with your elbows
on the table.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
She would make a point. You can google it. She
would make a point of eating with her elbows on
the table. The thing is this, Usually we say don't
put your elbows on the table when you eat, because
you know your course is there, there are people next
to you don't want to take up other space. But
if let's say the plates have been cleared and you're
just having tea or you're at a casual cafe, it's
(26:53):
perfectly fine to rest an elbow on the table while
you're chatting.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I also think, especially when you're like drink afterwards and
you're really engaged with someone and doing that, I think
that I think that's okay. You know, it really shows
that you care about what people are talking about. Super interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
If you don't want to buy a book from nineteen
forty two and want some updated, uh you know, advice on.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Etiquette, go pick up Mind your Manners.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's out actually as of April ninth, so go pick
it up. I assume anywhere where you can buy books
is where you can get it.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Yep online offline your indie.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Booksello, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on Two
Dudes in the Kitchen. This has been a lot of fun.
We learned a lot. I feel like we need to
have you back on to hear more posty stories and yeah,
the next time I host a party, I kind of
want to have a recap with you.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
To make sure I did everything okay totally.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I think this is fascinating. I think if we had
like a listener's question session with you, because I think
a lot of people feel very intimidated now we point
out and eating in front of other people or how
to interact in public, and I think you've got such
a clear vision on all this.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Thank you very much, boys, I would be delighted to
come back on.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Thank you so much for coming on Two Dudes in
the Kitchen.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
You rock all right, Bye Tyler Byewall.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Thanks very cool episode, very very fun.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
If you guys want to send us questions or think
that we should be interviewing people that you love that
we haven't yet, please hit us up at Two Dudes
in the Kitchen on Instagram. Don't forget to subscribe where
you read your podcast and move back next week with
two new episodes of Two Dudes.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
See you Tyler, see you Buddy. All right, guys, thanks
for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Follow us on Instagram at two Dudes in a Kitchen.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
We'll take that and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
See you next time.
It's two dudes in a kitchen with Tyler Florence.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Wells Adams an iHeartRadio podcast. That's right, you're listening
to two dudes in a kitchen. It's Well's Adam's hanging
out with Tyler Florence. How are you, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I am great, my friend. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm doing amazing? Man.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know, It's been a while since I've been over
to your restaurant, Miller and Lux, but I do want
to go again. But as I'm thinking about your restaurant,
I was wondering, do you have any pet peeves when
it comes to patrons and etiquette at your restaurant.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, first of all, I think the term pet peeve
is super kind of funny because if it's something that
annoys you, why would you want it as a pet.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, we should look up the etymology of that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You know, I want to show at the door. But
I do think in a lot of ways, there's things
you can do and things you definitely don't want to
do that are going to turn the volume up or
turn the volume down. With your physical presence sitting at
a table having dinner. For sure, you got to do
a couple of things and I try to preach it
to my children. You've got to read the room. Yeah, right,
(01:03):
what is the tone of the conversation, what people are
talking about? Uh, turn your filter on in your head.
Not everything that you're thinking is the right thing to say?
Could be it could it could bomb what you're about,
the what you're thinking right now that you think is
funny could totally just fall in deaf ears. So really
think it through, right and then and then I think
(01:23):
you'll want to be just really really care careful and
cautious about being self aware, right like are you like
are you drizzling sauce all over the tablecloth? Are you
being unnecessarily loud? Are you being respectful to the white staff?
Are you being part of the conversation? Are you are
you eating all the food?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And so I think in a lot of ways you
just got to have to just sort of read the
room and kind of be a part of the situation
and then know how to pivot if if you've got
to turn the volume up or turn the volume down.
And then also I think as a partner to somebody,
I think you've got to have that maybe some code
words or it's like a win or something, you know
what I.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Mean, the grabbing of the leg and ooh yeah, less
please less yeah less.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I used to have We have this couple friend and
in la to be nameless because I'm sure they less,
but her husband is kind of like a live wire
when we go out, and then she would always look
at him with full like you know, from the diaphragm.
She goes, you're at a ten and everybody wants you
at a six.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, you're here. We need you down here.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Everybody wants you. You're here, everybody wants you to here,
and then she would just start saying less, less, yeah, less,
less of all everything you're doing now less.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh funny. Turned down the volume.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know, it's funny when I was thinking about this
episode and etiquette. I grew up with parents who were
very strict about things that you should and shouldn't do
at a dinner dinner table, and we also always had
dinner parties, and so I always had to be I
was with the adults when I.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was very very young.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And one thing that's really stuck with me, and it
doesn't even matter, but it's something that like my father
used to ingrain and me and my siblings, and now
when I hear it, it absolutely greats My gears is don't
say can I get?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
But ask me I please have?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And I don't know, and it's I know it's stupid
and it's it's semantics, really, but may I please have?
Is so much softer than can I get? And then
the other thing that's that's more recent that has bugged me,
And now that I'm a member of a golf club
where you're not allowed to bring cell phones, it's kind
of nice. I really, if you're gonna bring your cell
(03:37):
phone into something that's that's fine, but I think that
it should be faced down. And there's nothing that kind
of bugs me more is that when I'm having a
conversation with somebody and all of a sudden they see
their phone light up and then they're no longer kind
of interested in what I'm saying. Those are two pieces
of etiquette that I try to live by. But I
don't know. Maybe I'm like the old I get off
your long guy. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I a thousand percent. I don't think there's anything that
says I'm not fully engaged in this conversation than somebody's
cell phone on the table. Yeah, excuse me if it
vibrates in your pocket, or you got to take a
phone call, or you've got you know, kids that are
kind of right in the middle of something, you know,
being handed off on sports events or or homework, or
you just need to be on while you're at a
(04:19):
business dinner. Totally understand happens all the time. We're all parents,
I get it. But if you're just like in a
social situation where your phone is just on and you're
kind of like half watching, half listening, I kind of
start tuning those people out and it kind of just
I talk to them less. Ye, right, I don't really
engage with them because they're not engaging with me totally.
So you get the energy that you put out in
(04:41):
the room. And if and my son does it all
the time. He'll walk into a room with one AirPod
in his ear. Oh yeah, Like, who, bro, you're sixteen,
Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Who are you talking to? What are you listening to?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
What are you talking to? Is more important than this
right here? Right? Like we are at the party, doing
the coolest thing with the coolest people, and you're saying
everybody in the room, I'm sorry, I'm busy right now, what.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Do you what do you listen to the other thing
that you might not agree with me on I'm not sure.
I was raised in a if you're on time, you're
late situation, so punctuality for me is very, very key.
And I once got into a big argument with a
guy I played played rugby with who's always late to
the bus.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
When we'd like go on, you know, away games and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I would say to him, I can't stand it
that you're always late. You know, you're holding all of
this up for one But the other thing is I
think it's really selfish. And he would say, how is
me being late being selfish? And I would say, well,
you constantly being late implies that you think that your
time is more valuable than mine and.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Then all of ours. And I don't love that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And I think it's something that you know, we all,
at least I think most guys deal with, like your
wives are always late, and you're always like, come.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
On baby, let's come on baby.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We're like, you know, like lying about when the when
the start time is so you can get there on time.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But I do think it's something to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Is your implication of that you think that you are
more important than other people is something that I think
people pick up on a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
YEP. And I think being I mean late for a
dinner and then being egregiously late for a dinner. Like
we we had this one family who we loved to
death who got lopped off the Thanksgiving guess because they
would show up an hour and a half late. Yeah,
that they would show an our and a half late, and
like we're already, you know. It's like we're literally just
(06:23):
like rearrange the table, you know, because there was like
four big holes there and and you know, and they're like,
how come we're not invited to thanks Can any more?
Because you don't get here on time. It's weird. It's
like it's like, you know what I mean, we give
you an invitation six months in advance, clear your day out. Yeah, what,
I don't whatever it is. But then then the other thing,
I think it's also equally as rude, but may not
(06:46):
the the the point of it may come from a
good place that if you get to someone's dinner party
too early because you want to go, I'm gonna get
there and help.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Don't do that either, Yeah, because then then I have
to stop what I'm doing and I kind of have
to like sub entertain you.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Wow, I'm just trying to, like, you know, kind of
finish up your nerves or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, showing up right on time is kind of weird
to some people. I realize that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So we kind of usually shoot for the ten seven
to ten minute late thing. That's what I try to do,
at least, because I hate when I'm when I'm hosting
and I say, Okay, everyone come over at one o'clock
and all of a sudden one thirty, I'm like, where
is everybody? Like I just made this thing like just
for everyone in nose and now it's going cold. Anyways,
in case you guys haven't figured out, today's episode is
all about etiquette, and today we're gonna be talking with
(07:33):
Sarah Jane Hoe.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Sarah is a Harvard business grad, a Netflix star, and
a manners expert. She has a new book out called
Mind Your Manners, and her motto is above all, etiquette
is about putting people at ease, that includes yourself. Social
anxiety is something that a lot of people are dealing
with and sometimes knowing what to do when you get
into a room can help ease some of that anxiety.
(07:55):
We are very excited to jump into this topic when
we come back con Two Dudes in the Kitchen, it's
Sarah Jane Hoe, stick around. Welcome back to Two Dudes
in the Kitchen. Very excited to have on the show.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Sarah Jane Ho.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
She has a new book out called Mind Your Manners,
all about etiquette and putting other people at ease when
you go and have to be social. You've always probably
also seen her all over Netflix. Sarah Jane Oh, thank
you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Thank you for having me. Boys.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So, the new book, Mind Your Manners, all about etiquette
putting people at ease, and that includes yourself. So tell
us one, what is the main thing people can get
out of reading your book.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I guess the one thing is social fluency. In the book,
I like to talk about how I see myself when
I practice etiquette. As a microcultural anthropologist, I'm going to
say that again, a microcultural anthropologist. Anthropology is the study
of human behavior, and in our day we move through
(09:07):
various microcultures in our home and our office. Different sets
of friends, different departments of your office can have different microcultures. Right,
maybe the advertising department's more rowdy, accounting department is more quiet.
So it's all about every time I meet somebody new,
or I'm in a new situation or a new context,
I'm thinking, I see myself as an anthropologist in the
(09:29):
field where it's observation. So I'm thinking, I'm studying what
are the codes of conduct here? How are people dressed,
how are people speaking, what is their tone of voice?
What slang are they using? And as I'm observing, I'm
slightly adapting myself, and I'm not changing myself. I'm no
longer me, right, I mean, I still have the same values,
(09:51):
same personality, But it's just about adapting myself so that
other people feel comfortable around me, which makes me feel
comfortable around them, which is actually what makes it human,
that sense of belonging community.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So I love that, and I usually describe myself as
a chameleon. And that's because when I was a radio
host back in the day, I had to do a
morning show for an alternative station, so that was one
very specific type of demographic. Then I did an afternoon
drive show on a classic rock station, which was older,
(10:24):
and that listenership was much different, and then at night
I did a pop show, and so I always had
to kind of change who I was to kind of
emulate who the audience was. And I like what you're
saying is when you you know, you come into a
new situation to kind of like I guess, you know,
survey the circumstances, and then you know, act accordingly. But
(10:48):
one thing that I think that I would have an
issue with was feeling inauthentic because I'm trying to make
everyone else feel comfortable and then I'm no longer being myself.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, and that's just a balance that you have to strike,
which is why I often tell people go out more right, like,
especially now with this rise in the digital age, we're
all hiding behind our screens, and then you had the
pandemic hit. So I'm telling people get out there, accept
that dinner invitation, invite somebody else to something, and the
(11:22):
more you put yourself out there, the more you'll be
able to the more you feel comfortable in those situations.
But you'll also be able to know how to strike
that balance of Okay, I'm considerate, but also I'm at ease,
because you have to be at ease if you're on
at ease. Other people pick up on that and they
will beaut ease.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I completely agree, especially coming out of the pandemic right
because I think there was a social fluency and I
love the way you described that they kind of felt
like the norm because my wife and I we went
to parties all the time, Like we literally, you know,
most weekends, there was an imitation to go do something
either with friends or at someone's house, or we were entertaining,
(12:00):
so we were kind of we had that muscle memory
of how to kind of ride it up and down.
And sometimes we were throwing like a barbecue in our
backyard for our teenagers and it was kind of like
a poll party. Sometimes it was a very formal dinner
situation with with a politician. We've hosted, you know, fundraisers
at our house over the years, and and then all
of a sudden the pandemic hit and then no one
(12:21):
did anything for what felt like years and then have
to kind of move back into a social situation. I
think a lot of people are out of practice on
how to walk into a room. And I say this
to my children all the time, because they could walk
in and like, you want to feel comfortable anywhere, like
For example, we went to a wedding on Saturday, a
family wedding, and then my sixteen year old son had
(12:42):
to wear this new suit that I just bought him
and and and he wanted to wear Jordan's with it, right,
And like, the answer is no, you know you're not
You're not gonna You're not gonna do that right because
it's a formal situation and you got to read the
room right. If it was your buddies thing whatever and
you want to go high low, or if it felt
(13:03):
like a fun thing to do with the promp because
all your friends are wearing Jordan's great, but you're not
going to go to a formal wedding and you're not
going to wear those shoes. So I think this just
feels like such a good message for so many people
that feel like they want to just kind of get
back out there and they need a refresher course on
how to feel like they belong in the room, whatever
(13:24):
room that is.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yes, And that's why I always say etiquette, there's no
right or wrong. It's more contextual, and so it really
depends on who you're with, what country you're in, right,
what's that culture and knowing how things are done that way.
That's really what's like the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
This conversation just reminds me of the scene in Pretty Women,
but also the scene in Titanic when Jack's like, what
fork do I use? And the unsinkable Molly Brown says,
just start from the outside and go in. And I
love that piece of advice because I kind of grew
up in a very posh household, and so I was
taught like, what, you know, what your salad fork was
(14:06):
and embarrassing to your dinner fork, and YadA, YadA, YadA.
I guess, like, really quick, what are some like baseline
things that people should know in terms of etiquette that
might not just be like common knowledge.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, well, let's start with the dinner table, because that's
where so many people get things wrong. I would say, well,
first of all, when you sit down, the fust thing
you should do is put your napkin in your lap,
or you follow your host's lead, but let's say there's
no specific host, then you put your napkin on your lap.
And the other thing that is that you should wait
till everybody's food is on the table before picking up
(14:44):
your cutlery to start eating your own.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Food.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Usually, if there's a host, we wait for the host
and hostess who will wait for everybody to be stoved
before they start eating. And once they start eating, that
means everybody else can start eating. But no, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
What happens if the host is ever eat You know
it's gonna get colder?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Whatever is it? Are you? Should you still be like no,
I'm going to wait for everyone? Or do you just
got permission acquiesced?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And also I've also heard the other one of like,
if people next to you have food, then you should
start eating.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Uh it, well, it depends how big the dinner is.
If it's two hundred people, then it's hot for you
to gauge. If everybody has been served and you can
focus on other people, but more than just next to you,
I mean, i'd say around you. But if it's an
eight person dinner, ten person dinner, you can see everybody's plate,
then you should wait for everybody. And in fact, but
it's a host duty. I think it's very considerate. And
(15:38):
I'll say that too when when hosts encourage people to eat, right,
so when saying please, like the food is hot, please
start eating, and just like Tyler said, you have permission,
and that means you actually should start eating, because otherwise
than the host is dressing out because they totally eat
and you're not eating.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Now, if you are the host, what are some things
that you should be doing? One telling people to eat,
I suppose, or or be maybe the first person to
put the nap in their lab. But should you always
be someone who you know, gives the toast before the
meal starts?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
What? What are some things that the host needs to know?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I always like it when the host says a few
words at the beginning because it just you know, things
need to have a start and a middle and an end,
whether it's a conversation or whether it's a dinner party.
So I usually before the first course is served, as
if I'm a host, I will raise my glass and
I'll say, even if it's something simple like you know,
I'm so happy everybody got together, and you know what,
(16:34):
he doesn't even need to necessarily celebrating something, just say
a couple of words. The host actually has a very
big duty because what people, what makes the most, what
makes or breaks a dinner is the conversation. So you know,
the food can be subpa it can be a hole
in the wall. It can be maybe the lighting, music, whatever,
(16:55):
But if the conversation is not good, people won't have
a good time, like you can have everything else. Let's
say be perfect, the lighting is perfect, the food's perfect,
but if conversation is dull, people will be like, oh,
that was so dull.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And that's how you can save a bad dinner too, right,
because you can joke about how awkward the evening is. Right,
like somebody picked this restaurant and the food's terrible, or
came out late, or something was cold, or the waiter
dropped the glass on your table. All these things could
possibly happen, but you could save this with really good conversation.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Right, And so you can use humor to deflect. But
the point is that the host is like the conductor
of an orchestra. As a host, it's important for you
to ensure that everybody has had a chance to speak.
I like to think of every guest as a as
a rosebud. You have to help each guest blossom, right,
and so part of blossoming is helping them ask, is
asking them open questions and making sure that nobody is
(17:47):
hogging the microphone, right, that everybody has an equal opportunity
to say their share. And if you see that somebody
is quiet, then then coaxing them out of their shell.
If you see somebody's loud, then almost you know, like
just sort of tapping them down, managing them and all
these things. And then if a conversations boring, I mean,
you kind of have to spice it up right all
(18:09):
these things. Conversation is the number one most important thing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Are there any tricks to spicing up conversation? I or
like games or something or something that people can do
to make things more entertaining.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
My favorite is Two truths and a Lie, And it's
where everybody goes around and says three statements and everybody
else has to. So one pustes three statements and one
of them is a lie, and everybody has to guess
which lie it is, and then if you guess wrong,
you drink. But also what I like to say is
sometimes I'll start off with something that's kind of inflammatory
or exciting. If I know that one of my guests
(18:44):
just did something really crazy like bungee jumping or you know,
was or you know, just something that's like very that
is exciting, then I'll put it out there. I'll be like, oh, Tyler,
I heard you went bungee jumping. Tell us all about it, right,
and then everybody will be really intrigued by that. Tyler,
I just asked stilette open question because it requires several
(19:04):
sentences from to antso and you know so, and sometimes
you want a little bit of conflict between some guests, right,
you want.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
To Yeah, especially they're rolling with with my neck brace
and my broken arm.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah. I think it's smart.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like I mean, obviously, I interview people for a living,
so like I do research and I find out about them.
But I think it's good if you especially if you're
a host, but even if you're going to a place
and not the host to Now everyone's on social media,
so you can do a quick amount of research just
through social media, and it would be like, oh, yeah, Tyler,
(19:37):
I saw that you you know, you recently hosted, you know,
a cooking event in New Orleans. I've never been New Orleans.
Tell what was the best part, you know whatever. It
makes it so much easier, and then it's not so
creepy because you're like, well, I follow you on social media,
and I saw that you went skydiving, and that seems fun.
But I do like the idea. I never thought of it.
I guess I naturally do this when we host dinner parties.
(20:00):
But being the conductor and really kind of allowing everyone
to shine.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Is such a good little tip.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And it's funny because I think of when I when
my wife and myself, we host, so much pressures put
on us to make sure everyone's having a good time.
But you can kind of put that pressure on other
people in terms of them telling stories, and all you
have to do is really kind of just like tee
it up so they can hit the home run.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, and I haven't feel that as a host, you
should be speaking the least. Yeah, you can remember, like
a conductor, you're kind of divoting attention, but you should
be speaking the least. It's really the worst host of
the one who's just talked endlessly about themselves.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I talk for a living, so that might be me.
And I'm learning a lot about.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Myself and how I act. And this is tough, I
gotta tell you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think that's really interesting. So I got I met
I did some fundraising for Barack Obama twice, and I
met the president's wise and although we were on his
planning committee and his fundraising committee. The man meets thousands
of people a week, right, So there is a there
is a line, right, a velvet rope line into a
(21:13):
private section to meet the president. And then there was
a little bit of gap in between one guest that
would go in and have there five minutes with the
president and then say something, and then they would leave,
and then they would escort a new you know, couple
in to get their picture taken. And I got a
chance to meet somebody on his chief not the chief
of staff, with somebody in the staff who coordinated that.
(21:36):
And there was a moment where they got a chance
to have all the information needed to say, mister President,
you're about to meet so and so, here's the last
time you met him. This is what they do for
a living. Here's his wife's name, they have three children,
they live here, go and the rest is kind of improvised, right.
And so now my chief of staff, Donna, has been
(21:57):
moving for like fourteen years. When I go to a meeting,
she preps me and I kind of do the same
thing for a dinner party. I want to know who's
in the room. Just what you both of you guys
were saying earlier. I think being prepared simulates conversation because
you kind of know who they are, and you had
a chance to look them up on social media, so
got a little background about what happened to them five
minutes ago. And then all of a sudden, you're you're
(22:19):
you're very much like in the zone of the room itself,
and you're you're ready to just sort of be present
because you did your homework right. Walking in what I
like to say ice cold to me is always sort
of treacherous because then you have to just sort of
improvise all of it versus having a little intel. So
that's my thing. If you're going to a dinner party
or you're hosting, hosting dinner party is the most important
(22:40):
thing because if you just go to one, you don't
really know who's going to be there. But if you're hosting,
make it just take take an hour, look everybody up right,
and then that way you kind of walk into the
room or they walk into your room, you're happy to
meet them, good to see you. How's your wife? Tell
me about your children? They're in tenth grade? How's the
football thing going? And then you can kind of pull
them out and you're right, you give them the floor
(23:02):
and give them the full sunshine. I completely agree with that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I wanted to ask you about post Malone. I guess
that he You guys didn't know that's where this was going.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But this is cool.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So post Blone called you up to help him properly gate.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
He did not do that.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
He did not did that.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
No. So there's a photo on my Instagram at me
and Chris Malone holding chopsticks up to the camera.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
We met through friends. I joined so he was hed
his Asia tour in September and I was at Singapore
F one and he headlined F one and one of
my childhood friends is good friends with him. So I
joined them and their crew for Singapore and for Hong Kong,
where I'm originally from. So I joined for a little
(23:52):
bit of that Asia tour and it was so fantastic.
It was so incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And that photo on my Instagram that people love to
ask me about is from a Chinese restaurant that I
took him and the rest of the crew too. And
when everybody sat down, there are two pairs of chopsticks.
So there's your plate and there's two pairs of chopsticks.
Everybody was confused. All the Westerns were confused, and Posty asks, oh,
(24:19):
there are two sets of chopsticks, which one do I use?
And so I explained to every of the table. The
outer chopstick is the one that you use to take
food from the lazy susan and from the communal plate
and put on your dish. And then you switch to
the inner chopstick, which is what you used to pick
it up and put it in your mouth. So that
way you have a private set of chopstick that goes
(24:39):
to your mouth, and the outside one is the clean one.
And I just thought, you know the fact that so
you're sitting there, ten people have no idea what this is.
Only one person only Posty asks this, and I think, yeah,
because we will call it because and so I just thought,
what a co it in and secure an inquisitive and
(25:02):
curious person and consider a person.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
He wasn't afraid of showing what he didn't know. He
wanted to understand the culture and understand like which topstick
should be using, and he's and and now and everybody
learned because of his question.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
That's absolutely amazing And I love that It's It's like
it's like the Westerners version of like double dipping the chip.
Can't you only one dip and then then you're done?
You can't go back in for a second one.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Same with that.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You can't be touching chopsticks that have been in your mouth.
You can't be touching other both food.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I love that. It's good.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Why because it's not proper etiquette. That's right, that's right,
because it's not proper eticut let me tell you. But
then it's really funny. This podcast was scheduled because I
just got this in the mail yesterday. Such a fan
of vintage books. But I just got Emily Posts.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I love Emily Post, love all his stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is our best friend's color posty, you have best.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Friends color posting. But I just got this book and
I haven't read it, but I'm so excited about diving
into this because it's written in nineteen forty five, right,
and it's the Bible on until your book came out.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
But I love I love all her books. She just
and what I love is that she actually made it
a point to eat with her elbows on the table,
to show that that's not what etiuette is all about.
People think etiquette is just you know, which fork, which knife.
But it's so much deeper than that. I just love her.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And she said it's okay to eat with your elbows
on the table.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
She would make a point. You can google it. She
would make a point of eating with her elbows on
the table. The thing is this, Usually we say don't
put your elbows on the table when you eat, because
you know your course is there, there are people next
to you don't want to take up other space. But
if let's say the plates have been cleared and you're
just having tea or you're at a casual cafe, it's
(26:53):
perfectly fine to rest an elbow on the table while
you're chatting.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I also think, especially when you're like drink afterwards and
you're really engaged with someone and doing that, I think
that I think that's okay. You know, it really shows
that you care about what people are talking about. Super interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
If you don't want to buy a book from nineteen
forty two and want some updated, uh you know, advice on.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Etiquette, go pick up Mind your Manners.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's out actually as of April ninth, so go pick
it up. I assume anywhere where you can buy books
is where you can get it.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Yep online offline your indie.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Booksello, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on Two
Dudes in the Kitchen. This has been a lot of fun.
We learned a lot. I feel like we need to
have you back on to hear more posty stories and yeah,
the next time I host a party, I kind of
want to have a recap with you.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
To make sure I did everything okay totally.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I think this is fascinating. I think if we had
like a listener's question session with you, because I think
a lot of people feel very intimidated now we point
out and eating in front of other people or how
to interact in public, and I think you've got such
a clear vision on all this.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Thank you very much, boys, I would be delighted to
come back on.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Thank you so much for coming on Two Dudes in
the Kitchen.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
You rock all right, Bye Tyler Byewall.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Thanks very cool episode, very very fun.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
If you guys want to send us questions or think
that we should be interviewing people that you love that
we haven't yet, please hit us up at Two Dudes
in the Kitchen on Instagram. Don't forget to subscribe where
you read your podcast and move back next week with
two new episodes of Two Dudes.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
See you Tyler, see you Buddy. All right, guys, thanks
for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Follow us on Instagram at two Dudes in a Kitchen.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
We'll take that and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
See you next time.
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