February 1, 2024 • 23 mins
Jana sits down with Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers to discuss the biggest mental health issue facing the elderly… and that’s loneliness.
If you or somene close to you is looking for love in their golden years, you need to hear the advice of 2 professionals on how to find a lasting partner at any age!
Plus, they share some tips for anyone in the younger crowd who’s having trouble finding their person!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On today's Therapy Thursday, We've got an episode of love
with doctor Gloria Horseley and doctor Frank Powers. They are
such a cute couple and they have a new book
coming out called Open to Love, the Secrets of Senior Dating.
It's going to be releasing on Valentine's Day. But let's
get a little look into what it takes to have
a great love.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hi, Hey, Janna, Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I mean I'm talking to doctors. This is cool. I
like this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Where are you guys? Where do you guys live at?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We are right now in Arizona, in Scottsdale and Palo Alto, California.
It's kind of home.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Base, Okay. I shot a movie in Arizona this past
summer and it was so hot, but it was it
was so cute. We were in Patagonia, like this cute
little small town.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I ever been there, No, my grandkids have been there.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's a door. It's really it's a really cute town.
It's just I was about fourteen fifteen weeks pregnant when
I was filming it, and then just like that that
dry heat. I was like, whoa, Oh my god, it's
a hot one.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Being pregnant and being there, whoa.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I mean, lots of people do it. I'm sure a
lot of pregnant women live in Arizona. Yeah. But okay,
So you guys have a book coming out. It's called
Open to Love. It's a Secrets of Senior Dating. And
I just, first of all, how long have you guys
been together?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
For?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Two years?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Two years? Okay? Because I saw on the notes that
you were widowed for what sixty years?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah? I was married for sixty years and my husband
died of a staff in fiction after back surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Wow. And then how did you guys meet?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, it's kind of my backstory. I after my husband died,
I so it was that therapist at the time, and
I decided to go into a grief group support group.
And I went into the group and I met a
guy who was a golfer. I met Abbot Golfer, and
we started dating and we were dating for a while,
(02:13):
and then he ended up moving in with me. And
you know, it was great being with somebody, but he
was pretty controlling and ups and downs, but I stayed
in the relationship because you know, we golfed and he
was a great guy. His wife had died a couple
of days after my husband, So at Christmas time, we've
(02:34):
been together for about seven or eight months, and a
Christmas time, a twenty seven of my family members went
to Hawaii over Christmas and he came with us. Steve
and I stayed a little bit longer, which he wasn't
happy about, and you know, he was welcome to stay,
but he didn't want to. So he left and went
(02:55):
home to our where we were living. And I got
a note from him when he when he after he
got home, and he said, oh, by the way, it's
not working out for me and it's too much.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
And he.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Ghosted me.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, and he said, I'm leaving the key to the house.
And we had a joint bank account, closed our bank
account and I'm sorry it didn't work out, and that
was kind of it.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And I was in home, favorite I mean, yes, he did.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I was in Hawaii, and I had COVID when I
stayed longer, I got COVID. So I'm sitting in my
hotel room and I'm thinking I'm really hurt and unhappy
and I'm thought, I'm going to write a book for widows,
because I've written some other books. I'm going to write
a book for widows and kind of try to figure
out what's going on here, you know, in my life. Well,
(03:49):
he had talked about online dating, so I thought, well,
Steve had done my day. So I thought, I think
I'll put in a chapter online dating. So, okay, I've
got to do that. So I go on my cell
phone and find Silver Singles.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh I never heard of Silver Singles. That's so cute.
What a cute little ring.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yes, So I went on Silber Singles and I signed up,
and Frank was the second. I had two people that
were in the Arizona area because I was staying with
my sister and so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The first one really helped me out, like Steve did
because he had his shriner shirt on, but Dave on
the top.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Of the bill. I liked pretty good after.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That, and then when I got home, the second date
was Frank. Of course, Frank and I both have pretty
robust websites. He's a sculptor as well as a therapist,
so when we got together, it was just like whoa, whoa.
But I did say to him by the way when
I first met him. By the way, I just want
(04:56):
you to know that I'm only dating you because I'm writing
a book.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I was crash falling. I thought, oh my god,
she's better than her profile.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I mean, you meet up somebody and they're they're better
than their profile.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That is so cute.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
We just hit it off immediately. But Frank's got a
whole different story than I do.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yes, I am a divorcee.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So I had a divorce about always about a year
and a half before, and I was really thinking, well,
at this age, you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I'm kind of old, you know, let me.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Go back online because I met my wife online and
I thought, well, okay, let's let's see. I was I
was just about ready to give up and go into
a senior community, you know, and and then kind of
like fold into the warehousing thing.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
That they do with old people, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So but then I saw her profile and I said, wow,
this is really a dynamic, cute intelligently, Hey, let's see
what she's really like a real person.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
So, and she was better in person than on.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I think it's it's something cute too that you
said like that one guy did the guy that ghosted you,
did you know you? Frank a favor and it was
something cute. My fiance the other night we were just
we kind of have little check ins every once in
a while, and sitting down and he we're talking through
some things and he's like, I don't know how anyone
could ever let you go, and I'm like, well, I'm
glad they did, you know, because we wouldn't be here,
(06:42):
you know. And that's that's the beautiful thing of you
don't think that you're gonna or at least for me,
like I didn't think. I remember. Actually this morning, I
was going through one of my journals. I was writing
in and I like to see what I've written before
obviously and kind of just see like you know, how
it's press and everything. But one of the chapters when
(07:03):
I was writing in when I got divorced, I was like, well,
will I ever be loved again? Will someone ever?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Will I ever be happy? And will I ever will
I basically ever, you know, find love again? And I
think so many people when they have, you know, either
a divorce or they lose someone, like will they ever
feel that love again? And it's that helpless and hopeless
feeling of like you want to be loved, but will
someone ever will someone look at me and go oh
(07:31):
or embrace the you know, the flaws and the and
the you know, the beauty that someone has.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And I think most people go through that, Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And I think that's you know, beautiful that you know
to look at you guys too. You guys have obviously
both lived, you know, and you've had a you know, husband,
and you've wife and married all the things. But yet
you're still open to the love. I think is beautiful
because so many people get so cynical about it and
even say to me like, oh, I don't know how
you're you know, getting married again, And I'm like, well,
I'd rather have love in my life than not. It's
(08:01):
kind of how I look at it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Loneliness is such an issue around the United States.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
The biggest mental health issue for older adults is.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Lovely huge right now, and with COVID and all that.
But yeah, it's been kind of amazing. We've been really
happy with us the Golden Bachelor, because you know, he's.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Really highlights the possibility of finding a relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah after a loss, because you know, I think you
were talking about divorce and Frank and I have talked
about this. I got more support as a widow than
divorced people do, far more support, and you know the
case and the divorce is such a loss too, well.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Wells feels like a failure, you know, and losing your spouse,
it doesn't feel like a failure. It feels like you're
heroic in terms of going.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Forward, and divorce is usually don't feel heroic.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No, Well that's such a good point too, because I
was looking at some of my comments I wrote on
an Instagram thing I said about my fancy. I said,
I get to marry you this year, and someone commented like, well,
hope this one works out. And it's like, it's not
like I wanted my last one to not work out,
you know what I mean? Like I didn't. I didn't
choose for him to cheat on me. I would have
loved to stay married. Yeah, I'm like, I don't like
(09:18):
the comments like that. I'm just like I didn't. That
wasn't the road I wanted. Having said that, I'm so
much happier now and I'm so glad in a way
that that happened so that I could have this kind
of love that is unlike anything I've ever experienced, So like,
thank you to it.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
That didn't work out, Like.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I'm so thankful now, Like I'm like, I'm thank you,
like for for doing and cheating because now I like
have the most incredible man that I didn't even think
I deserved or could ever have, Like wow, you know,
and it's like so I just it bothers me because
you're right, like we do we get cast as the
like problem or you know, we're broken as opposed to
(10:00):
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, Well the other thing about a widow or a
widower is if you meet another widow or widow widow,
everybody's like kumbayah. These two men, you know, they give
you support. Society says this is okay. But a divorcee
starts debating another divorcee, people are like, oh, I wonder
if this will work well? What about him where.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
He's going to work out? And he's a divorce.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So then what made you guys want to write a
book together? Because that's like that I love that and
like and you know, the people that are listening, I
don't know, you know, I don't even think my mom
listens anymore to the podcast. But you know what is
some advice to for maybe our younger audience that is
losing hope as well.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well. We I think our number one thing is to
say we believe that there's somebody out there.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
For everything, there is someone out there, but finding them
is really a whole issue.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
How do you do that now? And you know, for people.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Our age, we did not have online dating, and so
that wasn't one of the pieces that people our age
are familiar with. So it's a new thing and I
think that you have to learn from your grandchildren or
for someone who is more adapt at using online dating.
And we talk about having dating buddies that a person
(11:26):
our age really needs.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Any age, I think, for any age, for any age,
but especially us.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, but you do need a dating buddy, somebody, I
know some people call them wingmen or whatever you know,
to support you in this process.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Because don't don't do it alone.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It's really can be kind of daunting, especially for people
who are not that familiar with how to use internet processes.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And another thing, everybody, I mean, some of these things
that we have are for it doesn't matter what age
you are. Our first thing is to get a dating buddy,
and then we talk about you've got to make space
in your life. It takes time to.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Day, well, yes, because there are these things that are
connected with a past relationship and those things have to
kind of get out of your life so you have
space to bring someone in. If you're still ruminating or
you're still going over the issues.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Of the loss whatever through divorce or our death, you're.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Not really going to have the energy and the open
space to invite someone in. So you do work through
that before you're ready to bring someone in.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
What is your advice? Because I've seen this happen a
couple times where older people and even in my AGM,
I'm forty now, so people and I did this when
I was thirty because I'm like, well, I really want kids,
and so I settled a little a little bit because
I was like, all right, well, I mean he's good,
and you know, I want kids, and I'm hardy thirty
(13:12):
and I don't really know if I have any prospects,
you know, anybody else. And then I see people that
get older, same thing where it's like, all right, your
forties fifties, well shoot, I don't want to spend the
rest of my life alone. And then they kind of
settle into a relationship. So what's your advice to tell
someone not to do that?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, I think in the first chapter of our book,
we talk about if you're going to start dating, know
who you are, make a list, make a list what's
worked for you in the past and what hasn't work.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
For last relationships.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
That is one thing. If you're a little older, you
have some experiences, so you know what you liked and
what worked in relationships and what did not and what
did not is just as important as what did work.
And so I want to sort of get a picture
of what kind of person what kind of personality, what
kinds of things are important to you in a relationship
(14:05):
that satisfy you and make you feel connected and love
and where you want to develop the intimacy of a
more permanent relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So know who you are and then it will make
some space. Get a dating body, make some space, know
who you are, and then you've got to go where
the action.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Is literally and figuratively.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, the action is literally online right now, especially for seniors,
especially for women.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Women.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It's fifty to fifty online in our age group especially,
and that is not true in real life. So women
have a much better chance and it's a much better
place to go to meet people who you wouldn't normally meet.
It gives you a much broader range of possibilities for
(14:57):
yourself to find the one.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yep, what is your gu biggest advice for conflict in
a relationship?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Conflict in a relationship? Our biggest advice is, I want
to say comfortize avoid it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean, conflict is real and it really helps you.
Once you get past the conflict, you actually feel closer.
You feel like, oh wow, okay, yeah, I really think
that this person and I can get through things. And
that is a wonderful thing to feel with a partner.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But preempting it is good because if you are going
to start dating, how do you avoid conflict? Do you
pick people that you're not going to argue with. If
you don't want somebody who drinks, for example, then you
put it in your profile. I want somebody who does
not drink. And you stand by that because we tend
(15:50):
to repeat patterns. So what are the things that have
irritated you do in the past that haven't worked out,
that have not out? Don't go into a relationship and
don't you know, you've got to figure out what your
bottom line is what are you willing to put up with?
What are you willing not to put up with it?
And then you've got to look for the somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And Gloria and I both feel pretty strongly that twenty
and thirty year olds sometimes really are attracted to opposite
sort of different you see people, they think someone will
bring that quality in, and then most of the time
the twenties and thorties will spend the next ten years
(16:30):
trying to change that person to be more like that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, be more like you're older, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, I did that in my late twenties for sure.
And then when I finally looked at it, I'm like, well,
I don't like any of the qualities, and I'm sure
he isn't like any the qualities. I mean, we're just both.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Trying to change people.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, it's like this is not working. What do you
think in a relationship to is the absolute kiss of death.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
In a relationship? Well, when people will not talk, when
they stonewall.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
You, Yeah, that's not a good sign. That's not a
helpful thing.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Good conversation, ability to be open and share, the ability
to be yourself and not try to be someone who
you're not those are real problems for most people in
terms of finding a relationship. I worked with a lot
of men in my practice, and many of them really
(17:25):
in a sense, had no clue how to develop a friendship,
a real connection with a woman, And they didn't have
good models, usually in their own fathers, and so they
really had problems building that kind of friendship. Now they
could do it with other males a lot of times,
but they had a real hard time developing that same
(17:49):
friendship feeling and feeling of connection with women. And I
do think for males in general, this is a real issue.
And I hope that through our book and through our
work that we'll be able to encourage men to really,
in a sense, try to build a friendship. Don't just
look for some lovely thing on your arm to impress
(18:11):
other men. You really want to have a friend.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Frank for you though, like in your past and maybe
even in your current situation, you know now with Gloria
your relationship, is there something where you it's a pattern
that you've always kind of struggled with in the relationship,
whether it's you know, maybe you're not the best communicator,
or maybe you you know you walk away, or because
there's something that you do that is you've had to
(18:36):
actively work on stubborn.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yes, I have a tendency to be very thick headed.
I think a certain way, and I have a lot
of faith in my convictions, so I really have a
hard time sometimes bringing in new thoughts and new ways
of doing things.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
And I do think that that's one of the beauties.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Because she is so talented and in just teasing me
about my stubbornness, and I kind of melt and it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, I kind of see that with my Mom's husband
does a really good job where she's very she's more
of I think, not to say that he's not strong,
but like she's just as stronger, and she can get
a little bit feisty and stubborn quite quick like I do,
which is what I think I got for my mom.
But you know, and he just he deals with it
(19:36):
so well with her too. I mean, he lets her
tote the line a little bit, but then and then
we'll reel her in at times. But it's just when
you almost see that in someone, it's like if you
you know, you work with them on it, and it's
almost like becomes like one of the things that I
was like, oh that might rub me the wrong way.
With my fiance, now is like endearing to me.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
My defensiveness just melts with her. She's so wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, Gloria, what about you, I'm curious on your side.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh my gosh. I get task oriented and I will
then tell Frank what to do.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So then he becomes like your assistant. You're talking to
him like a like a worker instead of a husband, like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, I'm ready to get podcast or whatever. And I'm like, Okay,
this is going to be on. This is what we
have to do this.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I also think that's a woman thing. Though I
feel like that's a woman thing because I do the
same thing. And I'm like, I, oh, I forget, like
I have to adjust my tone like hey baby, like
we've got instead of being like all right, we got
this that because it's like we're delegators. We're tasked. We
have to get things done and like and it's they
they have to like almost know that we're not meaning
to talk to them like that, but it's just how
we operate in a way.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, and Frank's so great at just walking in I mean,
I mean, I will I realize now that if he's
in brushing his teeth or doing something that, don't say, oh, okay,
we've got to be on in fifteen minutes. You know,
leave the guy alone and when he knows what, when
(21:06):
it's time, he'll be here.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I love you to you, guys. What is your favorite
chapter in the book that comes out on which is
so cute Valentine's Day?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Actually, it's very interesting. We have a chapter that we
don't really talk about.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Too much because you tell people buy the book and
get it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's through the Bedroom Door, which has to do with
sexuality as you get older, and there are some real
differences things that we really talk about, I think fairly openly,
and it's not generally talked about. And I think that,
to me is one of the unique aspects of the
(21:45):
book is that we really don't avoid that, we really
tackle that head on.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
But my favorite chapter is the last chapter, Oh yes,
which is post traumatic growth, because we talk so much
about post traumatic stress, and there actually is research done
on post traumatic growth and how your experiences the death
of a husband, divorces, whatever, how they bring insight into
(22:12):
your life and how they can make you a fuller,
diverse and you're stronger, and you have more compassion, and
you have better relationships, deeper, more spiritual. There are all
sorts of aspects that have been studied on post traumatic growth.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So I like, I love that outlook instead of saying like, oh,
this is what you know. The anxiety or the stress
of the depression, that yes, very valid, and it's the
post traumatic growth that you got from that that is
the biggest impactful thing that will lead you. You know,
if you do the healing and all the things, then
that's what you get from it in a positive way. So
(22:49):
I love, I love, love, love love that. That's amazing. Well,
thank you guys so much for coming on everyone, go
get open to love or releasing February fourteenth, The Secrets
of Senior Dating. So to my senior listeners, grab a copy,
and also to my little longer younger loves, grab it
for your mom, dad, whoever. Awesome. Thank you guys so much,
(23:10):
appreciate you, lovely talking to you guys. Thank you, bye guys,
Bye bye
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On today's Therapy Thursday, We've got an episode of love
with doctor Gloria Horseley and doctor Frank Powers. They are
such a cute couple and they have a new book
coming out called Open to Love, the Secrets of Senior Dating.
It's going to be releasing on Valentine's Day. But let's
get a little look into what it takes to have
a great love.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hi, Hey, Janna, Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I mean I'm talking to doctors. This is cool. I
like this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Where are you guys? Where do you guys live at?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We are right now in Arizona, in Scottsdale and Palo Alto, California.
It's kind of home.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Base, Okay. I shot a movie in Arizona this past
summer and it was so hot, but it was it
was so cute. We were in Patagonia, like this cute
little small town.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I ever been there, No, my grandkids have been there.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's a door. It's really it's a really cute town.
It's just I was about fourteen fifteen weeks pregnant when
I was filming it, and then just like that that
dry heat. I was like, whoa, Oh my god, it's
a hot one.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Being pregnant and being there, whoa.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I mean, lots of people do it. I'm sure a
lot of pregnant women live in Arizona. Yeah. But okay,
So you guys have a book coming out. It's called
Open to Love. It's a Secrets of Senior Dating. And
I just, first of all, how long have you guys
been together?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
For?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Two years?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Two years? Okay? Because I saw on the notes that
you were widowed for what sixty years?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah? I was married for sixty years and my husband
died of a staff in fiction after back surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Wow. And then how did you guys meet?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, it's kind of my backstory. I after my husband died,
I so it was that therapist at the time, and
I decided to go into a grief group support group.
And I went into the group and I met a
guy who was a golfer. I met Abbot Golfer, and
we started dating and we were dating for a while,
(02:13):
and then he ended up moving in with me. And
you know, it was great being with somebody, but he
was pretty controlling and ups and downs, but I stayed
in the relationship because you know, we golfed and he
was a great guy. His wife had died a couple
of days after my husband, So at Christmas time, we've
(02:34):
been together for about seven or eight months, and a
Christmas time, a twenty seven of my family members went
to Hawaii over Christmas and he came with us. Steve
and I stayed a little bit longer, which he wasn't
happy about, and you know, he was welcome to stay,
but he didn't want to. So he left and went
(02:55):
home to our where we were living. And I got
a note from him when he when he after he
got home, and he said, oh, by the way, it's
not working out for me and it's too much.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
And he.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Ghosted me.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, and he said, I'm leaving the key to the house.
And we had a joint bank account, closed our bank
account and I'm sorry it didn't work out, and that
was kind of it.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And I was in home, favorite I mean, yes, he did.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I was in Hawaii, and I had COVID when I
stayed longer, I got COVID. So I'm sitting in my
hotel room and I'm thinking I'm really hurt and unhappy
and I'm thought, I'm going to write a book for widows,
because I've written some other books. I'm going to write
a book for widows and kind of try to figure
out what's going on here, you know, in my life. Well,
(03:49):
he had talked about online dating, so I thought, well,
Steve had done my day. So I thought, I think
I'll put in a chapter online dating. So, okay, I've
got to do that. So I go on my cell
phone and find Silver Singles.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh I never heard of Silver Singles. That's so cute.
What a cute little ring.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yes, So I went on Silber Singles and I signed up,
and Frank was the second. I had two people that
were in the Arizona area because I was staying with
my sister and so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The first one really helped me out, like Steve did
because he had his shriner shirt on, but Dave on
the top.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Of the bill. I liked pretty good after.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That, and then when I got home, the second date
was Frank. Of course, Frank and I both have pretty
robust websites. He's a sculptor as well as a therapist,
so when we got together, it was just like whoa, whoa.
But I did say to him by the way when
I first met him. By the way, I just want
(04:56):
you to know that I'm only dating you because I'm writing
a book.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I was crash falling. I thought, oh my god,
she's better than her profile.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I mean, you meet up somebody and they're they're better
than their profile.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That is so cute.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
We just hit it off immediately. But Frank's got a
whole different story than I do.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yes, I am a divorcee.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So I had a divorce about always about a year
and a half before, and I was really thinking, well,
at this age, you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I'm kind of old, you know, let me.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Go back online because I met my wife online and
I thought, well, okay, let's let's see. I was I
was just about ready to give up and go into
a senior community, you know, and and then kind of
like fold into the warehousing thing.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
That they do with old people, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So but then I saw her profile and I said, wow,
this is really a dynamic, cute intelligently, Hey, let's see
what she's really like a real person.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
So, and she was better in person than on.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I think it's it's something cute too that you
said like that one guy did the guy that ghosted you,
did you know you? Frank a favor and it was
something cute. My fiance the other night we were just
we kind of have little check ins every once in
a while, and sitting down and he we're talking through
some things and he's like, I don't know how anyone
could ever let you go, and I'm like, well, I'm
glad they did, you know, because we wouldn't be here,
(06:42):
you know. And that's that's the beautiful thing of you
don't think that you're gonna or at least for me,
like I didn't think. I remember. Actually this morning, I
was going through one of my journals. I was writing
in and I like to see what I've written before
obviously and kind of just see like you know, how
it's press and everything. But one of the chapters when
(07:03):
I was writing in when I got divorced, I was like, well,
will I ever be loved again? Will someone ever?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Will I ever be happy? And will I ever will
I basically ever, you know, find love again? And I
think so many people when they have, you know, either
a divorce or they lose someone, like will they ever
feel that love again? And it's that helpless and hopeless
feeling of like you want to be loved, but will
someone ever will someone look at me and go oh
(07:31):
or embrace the you know, the flaws and the and
the you know, the beauty that someone has.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And I think most people go through that, Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And I think that's you know, beautiful that you know
to look at you guys too. You guys have obviously
both lived, you know, and you've had a you know, husband,
and you've wife and married all the things. But yet
you're still open to the love. I think is beautiful
because so many people get so cynical about it and
even say to me like, oh, I don't know how
you're you know, getting married again, And I'm like, well,
I'd rather have love in my life than not. It's
(08:01):
kind of how I look at it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Loneliness is such an issue around the United States.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
The biggest mental health issue for older adults is.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Lovely huge right now, and with COVID and all that.
But yeah, it's been kind of amazing. We've been really
happy with us the Golden Bachelor, because you know, he's.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Really highlights the possibility of finding a relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah after a loss, because you know, I think you
were talking about divorce and Frank and I have talked
about this. I got more support as a widow than
divorced people do, far more support, and you know the
case and the divorce is such a loss too, well.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Wells feels like a failure, you know, and losing your spouse,
it doesn't feel like a failure. It feels like you're
heroic in terms of going.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Forward, and divorce is usually don't feel heroic.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No, Well that's such a good point too, because I
was looking at some of my comments I wrote on
an Instagram thing I said about my fancy. I said,
I get to marry you this year, and someone commented like, well,
hope this one works out. And it's like, it's not
like I wanted my last one to not work out,
you know what I mean? Like I didn't. I didn't
choose for him to cheat on me. I would have
loved to stay married. Yeah, I'm like, I don't like
(09:18):
the comments like that. I'm just like I didn't. That
wasn't the road I wanted. Having said that, I'm so
much happier now and I'm so glad in a way
that that happened so that I could have this kind
of love that is unlike anything I've ever experienced, So like,
thank you to it.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
That didn't work out, Like.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I'm so thankful now, Like I'm like, I'm thank you,
like for for doing and cheating because now I like
have the most incredible man that I didn't even think
I deserved or could ever have, Like wow, you know,
and it's like so I just it bothers me because
you're right, like we do we get cast as the
like problem or you know, we're broken as opposed to
(10:00):
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, Well the other thing about a widow or a
widower is if you meet another widow or widow widow,
everybody's like kumbayah. These two men, you know, they give
you support. Society says this is okay. But a divorcee
starts debating another divorcee, people are like, oh, I wonder
if this will work well? What about him where.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
He's going to work out? And he's a divorce.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So then what made you guys want to write a
book together? Because that's like that I love that and
like and you know, the people that are listening, I
don't know, you know, I don't even think my mom
listens anymore to the podcast. But you know what is
some advice to for maybe our younger audience that is
losing hope as well.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well. We I think our number one thing is to
say we believe that there's somebody out there.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
For everything, there is someone out there, but finding them
is really a whole issue.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
How do you do that now? And you know, for people.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Our age, we did not have online dating, and so
that wasn't one of the pieces that people our age
are familiar with. So it's a new thing and I
think that you have to learn from your grandchildren or
for someone who is more adapt at using online dating.
And we talk about having dating buddies that a person
(11:26):
our age really needs.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Any age, I think, for any age, for any age,
but especially us.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, but you do need a dating buddy, somebody, I
know some people call them wingmen or whatever you know,
to support you in this process.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Because don't don't do it alone.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It's really can be kind of daunting, especially for people
who are not that familiar with how to use internet processes.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And another thing, everybody, I mean, some of these things
that we have are for it doesn't matter what age
you are. Our first thing is to get a dating buddy,
and then we talk about you've got to make space
in your life. It takes time to.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Day, well, yes, because there are these things that are
connected with a past relationship and those things have to
kind of get out of your life so you have
space to bring someone in. If you're still ruminating or
you're still going over the issues.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Of the loss whatever through divorce or our death, you're.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Not really going to have the energy and the open
space to invite someone in. So you do work through
that before you're ready to bring someone in.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
What is your advice? Because I've seen this happen a
couple times where older people and even in my AGM,
I'm forty now, so people and I did this when
I was thirty because I'm like, well, I really want kids,
and so I settled a little a little bit because
I was like, all right, well, I mean he's good,
and you know, I want kids, and I'm hardy thirty
(13:12):
and I don't really know if I have any prospects,
you know, anybody else. And then I see people that
get older, same thing where it's like, all right, your
forties fifties, well shoot, I don't want to spend the
rest of my life alone. And then they kind of
settle into a relationship. So what's your advice to tell
someone not to do that?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, I think in the first chapter of our book,
we talk about if you're going to start dating, know
who you are, make a list, make a list what's
worked for you in the past and what hasn't work.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
For last relationships.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
That is one thing. If you're a little older, you
have some experiences, so you know what you liked and
what worked in relationships and what did not and what
did not is just as important as what did work.
And so I want to sort of get a picture
of what kind of person what kind of personality, what
kinds of things are important to you in a relationship
(14:05):
that satisfy you and make you feel connected and love
and where you want to develop the intimacy of a
more permanent relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So know who you are and then it will make
some space. Get a dating body, make some space, know
who you are, and then you've got to go where
the action.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Is literally and figuratively.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, the action is literally online right now, especially for seniors,
especially for women.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Women.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It's fifty to fifty online in our age group especially,
and that is not true in real life. So women
have a much better chance and it's a much better
place to go to meet people who you wouldn't normally meet.
It gives you a much broader range of possibilities for
(14:57):
yourself to find the one.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yep, what is your gu biggest advice for conflict in
a relationship?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Conflict in a relationship? Our biggest advice is, I want
to say comfortize avoid it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean, conflict is real and it really helps you.
Once you get past the conflict, you actually feel closer.
You feel like, oh wow, okay, yeah, I really think
that this person and I can get through things. And
that is a wonderful thing to feel with a partner.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But preempting it is good because if you are going
to start dating, how do you avoid conflict? Do you
pick people that you're not going to argue with. If
you don't want somebody who drinks, for example, then you
put it in your profile. I want somebody who does
not drink. And you stand by that because we tend
(15:50):
to repeat patterns. So what are the things that have
irritated you do in the past that haven't worked out,
that have not out? Don't go into a relationship and
don't you know, you've got to figure out what your
bottom line is what are you willing to put up with?
What are you willing not to put up with it?
And then you've got to look for the somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And Gloria and I both feel pretty strongly that twenty
and thirty year olds sometimes really are attracted to opposite
sort of different you see people, they think someone will
bring that quality in, and then most of the time
the twenties and thorties will spend the next ten years
(16:30):
trying to change that person to be more like that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, be more like you're older, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, I did that in my late twenties for sure.
And then when I finally looked at it, I'm like, well,
I don't like any of the qualities, and I'm sure
he isn't like any the qualities. I mean, we're just both.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Trying to change people.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, it's like this is not working. What do you
think in a relationship to is the absolute kiss of death.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
In a relationship? Well, when people will not talk, when
they stonewall.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
You, Yeah, that's not a good sign. That's not a
helpful thing.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Good conversation, ability to be open and share, the ability
to be yourself and not try to be someone who
you're not those are real problems for most people in
terms of finding a relationship. I worked with a lot
of men in my practice, and many of them really
(17:25):
in a sense, had no clue how to develop a friendship,
a real connection with a woman, And they didn't have
good models, usually in their own fathers, and so they
really had problems building that kind of friendship. Now they
could do it with other males a lot of times,
but they had a real hard time developing that same
(17:49):
friendship feeling and feeling of connection with women. And I
do think for males in general, this is a real issue.
And I hope that through our book and through our
work that we'll be able to encourage men to really,
in a sense, try to build a friendship. Don't just
look for some lovely thing on your arm to impress
(18:11):
other men. You really want to have a friend.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Frank for you though, like in your past and maybe
even in your current situation, you know now with Gloria
your relationship, is there something where you it's a pattern
that you've always kind of struggled with in the relationship,
whether it's you know, maybe you're not the best communicator,
or maybe you you know you walk away, or because
there's something that you do that is you've had to
(18:36):
actively work on stubborn.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yes, I have a tendency to be very thick headed.
I think a certain way, and I have a lot
of faith in my convictions, so I really have a
hard time sometimes bringing in new thoughts and new ways
of doing things.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
And I do think that that's one of the beauties.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Because she is so talented and in just teasing me
about my stubbornness, and I kind of melt and it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, I kind of see that with my Mom's husband
does a really good job where she's very she's more
of I think, not to say that he's not strong,
but like she's just as stronger, and she can get
a little bit feisty and stubborn quite quick like I do,
which is what I think I got for my mom.
But you know, and he just he deals with it
(19:36):
so well with her too. I mean, he lets her
tote the line a little bit, but then and then
we'll reel her in at times. But it's just when
you almost see that in someone, it's like if you
you know, you work with them on it, and it's
almost like becomes like one of the things that I
was like, oh that might rub me the wrong way.
With my fiance, now is like endearing to me.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
My defensiveness just melts with her. She's so wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, Gloria, what about you, I'm curious on your side.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh my gosh. I get task oriented and I will
then tell Frank what to do.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So then he becomes like your assistant. You're talking to
him like a like a worker instead of a husband, like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, I'm ready to get podcast or whatever. And I'm like, Okay,
this is going to be on. This is what we
have to do this.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I also think that's a woman thing. Though I
feel like that's a woman thing because I do the
same thing. And I'm like, I, oh, I forget, like
I have to adjust my tone like hey baby, like
we've got instead of being like all right, we got
this that because it's like we're delegators. We're tasked. We
have to get things done and like and it's they
they have to like almost know that we're not meaning
to talk to them like that, but it's just how
we operate in a way.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, and Frank's so great at just walking in I mean,
I mean, I will I realize now that if he's
in brushing his teeth or doing something that, don't say, oh, okay,
we've got to be on in fifteen minutes. You know,
leave the guy alone and when he knows what, when
(21:06):
it's time, he'll be here.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I love you to you, guys. What is your favorite
chapter in the book that comes out on which is
so cute Valentine's Day?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Actually, it's very interesting. We have a chapter that we
don't really talk about.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Too much because you tell people buy the book and
get it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's through the Bedroom Door, which has to do with
sexuality as you get older, and there are some real
differences things that we really talk about, I think fairly openly,
and it's not generally talked about. And I think that,
to me is one of the unique aspects of the
(21:45):
book is that we really don't avoid that, we really
tackle that head on.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
But my favorite chapter is the last chapter, Oh yes,
which is post traumatic growth, because we talk so much
about post traumatic stress, and there actually is research done
on post traumatic growth and how your experiences the death
of a husband, divorces, whatever, how they bring insight into
(22:12):
your life and how they can make you a fuller,
diverse and you're stronger, and you have more compassion, and
you have better relationships, deeper, more spiritual. There are all
sorts of aspects that have been studied on post traumatic growth.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So I like, I love that outlook instead of saying like, oh,
this is what you know. The anxiety or the stress
of the depression, that yes, very valid, and it's the
post traumatic growth that you got from that that is
the biggest impactful thing that will lead you. You know,
if you do the healing and all the things, then
that's what you get from it in a positive way. So
(22:49):
I love, I love, love, love love that. That's amazing. Well,
thank you guys so much for coming on everyone, go
get open to love or releasing February fourteenth, The Secrets
of Senior Dating. So to my senior listeners, grab a copy,
and also to my little longer younger loves, grab it
for your mom, dad, whoever. Awesome. Thank you guys so much,
(23:10):
appreciate you, lovely talking to you guys. Thank you, bye guys,
Bye bye
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