October 2, 2024 • 58 mins
We’ve all had that experience of working hard to achieve “the thing”—the big dream. Rejection is part of the journey, but when you finally reach that goal...it’s a feeling like no other - or at least, it should be, right? Turns out it's more complicated than that.
Amy Shark knows this all too well. After a decade of trying to break into the music scene, her hit song "Adore" landed her a deal with a major record label. Suddenly, she was in the spotlight, winning ARIA Awards and making appearances on late-night TV—everyone knew her name.
In this conversation, Amy chats with Clare Stephens about the reality of fame and how we can all be a little happier.
But, is Amy Shark happy now? You’ll have to listen to find out.
THE END BITS
- You can listen to Amy's new album Sunday Sadness here.
GET IN TOUCH:
Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au to share your feedback about the show or to suggest a guest.
CREDITS:
Host: Clare Stephens
Guest: Amy Shark
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Producer: Cassie Merritt
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I think everyone does. Think.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're just there with all your people you love and adore,
and you're just having champagne and you're.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Like, let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Ah, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
the background.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome to Bitter Are You Happy? The podcast
that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,
Claire Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone
whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving
to make it in the music industry for nearly a
(01:06):
decade when it finally happened and her song Or got
her signed with a major record label.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
You get your girls just so I can or you
the entire challenges so I can feel with you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And within a year she was winning arias. She was
performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night
shows in the US. She followed it up with another
album with songs like I Said Hi and at the
Arias in twenty eighteen. She was that artist that just
wins all the awards. She won the most awards out
(01:50):
of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted
wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and
here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We
talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the
complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and
(02:14):
the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy
and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start
by asking whether you grew up in a happy family
and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
My parents were divorced already.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
They divorced when I was a baby, so my very
early memories were always grandparents. So it was really close
to my dad's mom and my mom's mom, and kind
of even close with my stepdad's moms.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I added like three nands that were like so there
for me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But yeah, it wasn't until my dad got remarried everything
sort of changed. So there were some dark times, but
I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What can you remember is being like the first time
you felt challenged by happiness, like the first time you
realized that life was a bit more complicated and you
noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was
exposed to having to grow up and really, you know
those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,
you're so upset. I remember being really strong really early on,
like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I
(03:54):
was just crying myself to sleep and being like I
just not won't always be, Like this just won't be
and I just had that belief. But I do remember
being like, this really sucks right now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Do you think growing up and seeing the kind of
fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted
people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew
up and kind of the path decisions that you made.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's why in my adult life, I've never really kicked
the bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to
be a drug addict because I had it so bad,
and I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.
I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and
I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.
I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met
(04:49):
people that are so close to me if I wasn't
who I am because of what I went through. So
in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take
it with a grain of salt, and I think it's
really comforting.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The older you get, you look at everything.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Differently, right Like, I even look at my parents, who
I was like, ah, man, you sucked at that, and
and then I'm like, they're just people. They're doing the
best they.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Can with the time, with what they had at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So you know, there are some things I'm like, no,
I won't forget that, and that's I'm not going to
give you a free pass with that one. But I
do I look at things and I'm like, we're all
just freaking human beings still and the best we can.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You rose to national and international fame with Adore in
twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade
of essentially trying to make it as an artist to
winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest One hundred.
You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that
(05:51):
you once got a rejection from someone in the music
industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.
Your music is no good and it's not something we
would be interested in anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Do you think rejection galvanized you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes, Yeah, definitely need that. You need it because it
builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.
There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.
I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes
to show that I truly do believe if you want
(06:28):
to work as hard as it takes, and if you're
strong enough, and if you really really love it and
believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I
honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've
just seen it happen so many times to people like have.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in your
resilience in that time, because there are so many people
who would give up, and so many people who do
give up. They try something for a few years, it's
not happening. They change direction. Is there anyone in your
life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,
(07:05):
really determined and keep going at something that you think
they should quit.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
There's definitely been people that I haven't been really close to,
thank God, but like I've watched and been sort of
in the friend group of them at some stage and
being like music is just not I know how bad
you want it, but yeah it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But also like I've known people, I think more so
than that, I've seen people be so talented but they
just don't have the work ethic or the drive.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
They're so naturally talented, but they're lazy.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I've experienced more of that than me sitting there going
Juez give up. Like I've had more of those feelings
like you're so friggin good, but you don't care enough.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And do you think when you look back on like
your own tenacity and the fact that you did make
it and you've had this incredible career, what is the
word you use to describe yourself? Is it a hard worker?
Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other
people's opinions like what do you put it down.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
To a combination?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think like I've always looked at like when people
are like, how do you do it?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
How does it happen? It's like a real domino effect.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But everything has to be lined up, and you don't
even know if you've got them all lined up until
it's happening, and then you look back and on reflection
you're like, oh, yeah, okay, So I was unknown, even
down to the way adore was one word and with
the letter A and my name had shark attached to it,
and just all these things that you don't realize you
have that are just falling into perfect placement. And even
(08:49):
the fact that I had had fifteen years under my
belt playing really dodgy pubs and clubs and just going
through and setting up my own gear and just being
so tired, and by the time, you know, management was
like you got a really big week ahead.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I looked at that week, I was like, looks like fun.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I used to just work full time, like had to
be there eight thirdy till five, had to race to
a club and play till like midnight to a bunch
of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my
speakers back into the car and be at work the
next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.
And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.
So I was just like when I finally saw a
(09:29):
glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of
your dream. I just really went for it, like to
the point where I was I probably was a little
bit hard to manage at the time because I was
so this is my shot.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Everyone get out of the way, no one take it
from me.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I'm so focused, it's wild, and I think that's yeah,
everything just has to be lined up.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once
you had that success. Were you kind of so determined
because you've been on this track for so long that
you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.
I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,
I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've
got this idea can we do that? And I've got
this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,
don't stop for a second. Just keep going, because this
could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and
being like, look, I can do this. I can write
(10:35):
this kind of song now, and I can play it
acoustically or I can Like I was just constantly being
like I can do it, like let me prove it
to you.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And with the people around you, some of the people
around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to
just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate
what you had rather than keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me
down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I
constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.
So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that
I wanted to work at, was like, what's up?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You're not all in on this?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You like you know whereas I came into the industry,
didn't know anything, working with people who had been in
the industry their whole life twenty thirty years or whatever,
and they're looking at it like, yeah, you just need
to let's sit and chill and don't do an album yet,
do an EP. And I'm like, why would I do
an album? I have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated.
(11:36):
If I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I
feel in a better place now, but I definitely know
I wasn't in that place at the start.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Now, when you look back and you think about when
you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do
you remember the names of the.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
People who turned you like, yeah, turn it back.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
On you, And do you hold grudges?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off
my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but
once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that
song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of
anger in it. And I always feel free after I
release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then
(12:18):
I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once
and it was really I really felt what she meant
when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.
She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is
that now I know my songs will get heard. And
for years I remember watching that when I was still
on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must
(12:40):
be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the
seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, And
now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't
matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.
And it's the best feeling ever.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And I think you probably have a totally different level
of appreciation for it because you were kind of a
fully formed human by the time that all that success
found you, and you knew what it was like for
it to not come easily totally like it's probably a
really I don't know, it probably does a lot to
make you a better human having been through all those
(13:18):
years when you had all the success with Adore, you
did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the
Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those
just seem so terrifying to me, Like out of just
all the things you've done, I don't know why the
image of that, like I just that would just be
(13:39):
so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?
What are you experiencing?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Like terrifying?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
They really are. James Corden was different because that was
the first one and everything was feeling really good and
I didn't have time to get nervous. I kind of
was just rolling out everything and yeah, it was like
one of the very first things I got offered. So
I was literally like quit my job. And then I
(14:09):
was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It was
so stupid. And then by the time I did Jimmy Fallon,
I remember I was really tired. I was on a
tour and just wasn't in the best place with the
whole team and with everything. It's a mixture of things,
(14:29):
and I honestly just didn't want.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,
and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just
all the things and still managed to do it. I
think everyone does think you're just there with all your
people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne
and you're like.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
the background.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those
experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh
my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that
there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally
behind the scenes. And you then went on to have
(15:16):
two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at
the Arias, And I want to ask about that because
that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,
everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are
just like you're ecstatic, you're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is
(15:38):
looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something
like the Arias?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,
but that's why, like all my friends are like take
me or have some champers and we'll.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It's just not like that. It's it's a work night.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Like even the very first Arias I went to, I
wasn't even nominated, and I spoke that's where I met
Dan Hume, who's done so much of the production for
my records. And you're constantly meeting people who you may
want to work with or so you're always on you know,
it's not like I'm there just like getting lit in
(16:18):
celebrating the album.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
It's not really a night.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It is a night to do that, but it's also
a night to be prepared if you do win something.
And there's red carpets and I hate, I hate, like
I hate people looking at me. I think it comes
from I don't usually wear dresses and things like that.
It's only for very special events. And if I ever
did at my old job, everyone be like, whoa Amy,
(16:43):
if you got a date later or what's happening? And
I hate that. So therefore I've always dressed like just
kind of hid a little bit. So the aris you
can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how am I
going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've decided to
have a hairstyle that's very look at me.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So but it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So yeah, you just have to go into work mode
and just find that balance and just get through it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,
I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like
the person of that year, that there are all these
options in terms of like how hectic you go with
like a dress and hair and makeup and all of that,
that if you wanted to, you could go fullL Kim Kardashian,
(17:30):
or you could be more authentic to who you are
and somebody your fans will recognize. How have you navigated that?
The idea of like having an image and keeping kind
of some semblance of who you are rather than just
leaning into the like being a woman in music.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said
before about being like a full blown adult, Like I
think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when
you're younger and you're not really you don't really know
who you are yet, because it took me so long
to work out who the hell I was, like so long,
like I just I just like writing songs. I don't
(18:15):
really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.
I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and
I love when someone has their certain look and I
love going to see them and they look the way
they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's
(18:35):
with my hair. I never really I just kind of
fell into that and then I saw people doing it
and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So
that is as far as I think I go everything else.
I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest
thing that my partner said when this was all happening,
I was like, what do I wear?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Because I've had years of.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Like getting it wrong, years of like oh my god,
like photo shoots where I look like a like Bambie
and like just just like a not me. And probably
it's my fault too, because I didn't really know. All
I knew was I liked writing songs. So when we
started getting somewhere and I had a really big meeting
with a record label in America, It's like, what do
(19:19):
I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're comfortable with,
and so I just would like jeans and an added
ass jacket and just put my sort of hair up.
And then the guy there was like, Amy, I love
your hair and I love the Adidas and I was like, okay, great,
And that's how it started. It was just so casual
and just the focus was all on the music and
the performance.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or
change your direction once you blew up, like especially once
you're in the US and people know who you are
there and you know you're probably making a lot of
people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change
(20:02):
who you are musically or in terms of your image?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Never?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Wow. I think there was just sort of so much there.
Like I had the songs, I'd done the work, people
knew I was confident the way I looked and if
I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be able
to speak and hold the room the way I could.
So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,
it's working, let it go.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Let it go to the point where I was.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Like my old manager, I was walking with him one
day and he goes, I'm really glad that you keep.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
It so simple.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's like it's like a lot of artists have all
these dress and stylists that has to travel and like,
how are we gonna fit all these dresses in there?
You know? And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen
pairs of black jeans and I've got like thirty white
T shirts and like, you know. So so I think
everyone was like, look, it's it's different, and she's a
bit different, but let's just roll with.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
This after this short break. What happened when one of
Amy's songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?
Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme
(21:16):
pressure with what you do next? And do you feel
paralyzed by that pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I didn't at that time, because I just knew I
had so many songs and I was so excited to
show them to the point where I was like, I
don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I
want to keep putting music out, and I think that's
what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,
but we need to really rense this song. It's doing
really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,
(21:44):
I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up
with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I just didn't feel I had one musician and I
won't obviously say the name of this person, but they
were like, yeah, I mean it's going to be hard
to like back up a door, and I was trying
not to let it get to me. It was said
in a very smug way. So instead of backfisting this person,
(22:10):
I was just like, you're watching your baby. You've got
no idea what I have on my sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in those
years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously imagined
what that life would look like. What would people not
know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Oh so much?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's so loaded, I feel like, especially now like I'm
in album three, sort of phase, so the dust is settled,
you know, you can start seeing who's changed, and it's
a really interesting time for me. And sometimes it can
be super heartbreaking because it's just so turbulent, like it
(23:02):
really is, especially when you've come from working nine to
five super pedestrian life and then the next menu and
it you really don't know where. There's no book, and
especially now music's in another whole ballgame.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It's so different.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Like even when I first started, I remember management being
able to sit there and forecast exactly where I would be,
what venues I'd be playing, where my album would come in,
at all these things, and they got it all right
because they could see.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
The stats, and it blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And now just knowing what I know now and the
people I've met, and they're like, there's no rule book anymore.
There's no forecasting. We have no idea what's working.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What will work, what won't work.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So it's just navigating every day and it can be
very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and
no one knows that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And how do you deal with the fact that, I
guess for a lot of people, you can't do me
music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of
a window in which you've got this amazing career. How
do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of
(24:25):
your life.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, it's a really hard balance.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It'll be at a time where I'm the busiest, where
I'll be like, I haven't spoken to the kids, like
my nieces and nephews who I'm very close with. God,
i haven't spoken to them in a minute, and I'll
just almost put this pressure on myself at the worst
times and never let myself relax. I still just don't
know how to relax. Like it's even when we go
on holidays, we're kind of pretending, like like we'll be
(24:50):
there lying on a deck chair with a panic collater
and still being like, Okay, so we'll do this, and
then we'll do that too, and then we'll all the
social media bullshit. It's like, it's just so so hard
to get that perfect balance. And I don't know if
any musician really does, but I'm always trying really hard
to get better at that. And I think the best
(25:10):
thing that I have is I'm not obsessed with it.
Like I've proven everything I wanted to prove, and I
think I'll always be able to be comfortable. So if
it ever took its toll on my family or my
relationship or anything like that, I'm happy to give it
away and just move somewhere random. And I'm not obsessed
(25:35):
with being in the limelight. I've done it so much
because there's been cool opportunities like Australian Idol, like all
these things, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, and we're
always on my manager and partner and myself like that's cool,
let's do it. Let's see what happens. So everything's been
fine up until now. But I think it's okay. I
feel okay about it because in the back of my
(25:56):
head I know that I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's just cool to do.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But if it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money
changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just
working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a
certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that
sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I
(26:24):
imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a
lot of problems, like that song is legit. More money,
more problems.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Like I'm always interested as somebody who can't relate to
the problems. What problems.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
It's a hard one to explain.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It exposes all the rest of the problems because you're like, oh,
hang on a minute, got like a stack of money.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Why am I feeling empty?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because it also just
changes the dynamic of so many things because I think
people think I'm like a billionaire or something like even
my family, Like I'll get cent links of palaces around
Europe and I'm like you should buy this, like bitch,
(27:18):
sit out. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I think
people and I used to think it too. I used
to see people on television and go, oh, all the
money in the world, they probably got private jets, And
I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,
you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to
get to do that make you money. But it's also,
(27:41):
like I said before, you don't know how long that's
going to last.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Life's long if you're lucky.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So yeah, you're constantly looking at it like Okay, well
that's cool for now and some people when you have
a good catalog, I guess there are times where you
can look it into the future and go cool, like
I'll sell it then and that'll be worth this much
and you can do a little bit of that. But yeah,
the rest of it's all up in the air. So
you've got to be really clever. You know.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I'm lucky.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I married an accountant, so's I've got this nerd with
me all the time knowing what to do. So but
I can see how people get all this success and
just blow it all and get really excited and then
things happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,
you're like, shit, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,
and it would be easy to assume that that amount
of money is going to come in for the rest
of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,
hold on, I've got to be aware of this being
a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does
(28:45):
money make life easier?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Like I said before, Like, yeah, in some ways, like
in the classic ways you think, like being owed buy
a house, or certain things, little treats and holidays and
whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,
so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,
(29:11):
and I need help with this, and they all need
to be paid. And I want my shows to look
like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need
production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they
need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't
know how much things cost, like it all kind of
adds up.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And if you want to do something at a high level.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And good quality, yeah, man, that money can like go
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after
you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner
manage you? I want to know the best part and
the worst part, So.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Loaded we could be here for a long time. The
best part is he knows me better than anyone. I
trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy Show
project better than I do. He's very smart with his
decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then I guess
(30:20):
the hard bit is learning to be like, hey, I'm
also your wife. We love each other, like you know,
just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's
calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally
have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try
not talk about work.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in
professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over
and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.
What is your fight with your husband?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
The constant fight is.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
So we'll have our separate days and I would have
just been you know, going go and going interview whatever
whatever I'm doing, even if I'm in the studio and
he's had I had all these conversations and worked all
through the day and done some planning and that, and
I'll always want to know what's going on because it's
actually my business too. So but he's had a day
(31:22):
and has not got off the phone and he's like, oh, babe,
I just and I'm like, I just don't know anything. Ever,
He's like, I know, I know, but like I've literally
just been talking about you all day. And I really
feel for him, because it's not just the day that
he speaks about me with agents and whoever. He'll go
to the pub and be like, oh that's Amy Shark's husband,
(31:44):
or hey, mate, saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy,
and like I would hate me, and he does this
so well because he obviously loves me very much. But
I can understand when he's like, there's so much to
fill you in on. I just like if we could
just talk about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,
(32:06):
but I want to know, Yeah, I want to know
what's going on, like you know, so that it's the
constant because essentially we work in the same thing, but
we're doing different things for the day usually, So yeah,
I always hassle him about that, and he hassles me
about leaving him alone.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think
he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,
I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right
because of your profile and who you are, people would
be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X
y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Ye
could not care. You won't see him at anything. He's
so happy for me and he's happy that he knows
he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he
doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does
like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just
(33:11):
so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.
He gets to work in music, and you know, he's
got such a big hand in the A and R
ring of the record and he gets so much from that.
I think he's just proud, like when people come up.
But he obviously he has his moments where he's like,
oh my god, one more person, and then we'll go
to his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.
(33:33):
So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.
But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like
he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like
the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until
he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just
not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples
and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just
(33:55):
being like trying to sort of use that to jump
start their career or like you know, they're just like
I want to do something too, Now what can I do?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And it's probably huge blessing that you've been together
for so long, and that together before all of this happened.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.
I don't have it in me to learn anyone else
or to meet other parents of people.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I'm tapped. I'm done, Like especially now, Like.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I look at people with profiles and they're dating, and
I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he know like like or
you know, vice versa, like are you dating this girl?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Like?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Is she just dating you because you're such and such?
Like it's it must be so hard. I'm really glad
that that.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Do after the break, the surprising times when Amy thought
she'd feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on
this podcast about the idea that the world lies to
(35:09):
us a bit about happiness and that often the moments
we expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so
I often ask people if they have a moment they
can think of where the world told them they'd be
happy and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside
to be super shiny and happy and together, and behind
(35:32):
the scenes it was a very different story.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this
is hard, and especially now more than any other time.
Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows
where people think I'm living it up and I'm like
crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and
play the show. So there's all those little things sort
(35:56):
of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where
you can't really explain it. You're sort of just sitting
still and you really don't know what the next move is,
and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're
this when you're really still just that and I don't
I can't explain it, but it gets really I can
(36:19):
see how artists really need to check in with their
mental health because it's just hard to put your finger
on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.
I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even
know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,
I had the best conversation with Tom's launch, which sounds crazy,
on this boat the day of his show, and I
(36:40):
was talking to him and I'm like, this is so fun,
Like you know, we're on the Sydney Harbor and he's like,
is it's like you're having fun?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
And I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys? I don't know anymore.
I guys, I guess.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So He's like, damn, I feel that way, and I'm like, yeah,
I guess. Like I tour so much, so the thought
of packing a bag.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Form of fun. It's like, huh, what, like where are
we going to go?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.
You you associate travel and being at these certain places
with work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't
know when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,
and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers
of that every now and then you can have all
(37:23):
this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and
then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I
see her run up to me like just drops everything.
That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm
so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,
which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't
(37:43):
mean shit before. Really, it's like that's the coolest thing
about having all these massive highs that you never thought
you'd have because the simplest things are so special.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat
and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think
that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,
you must find yourself in these situation where you're in
beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're
being doted on. Ye, And it's all the criteria of
(38:19):
what makes for a happy moment, and the fact is
that you just you don't always feel that way. Yeah,
And sometimes you're just not really in the moment for
whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean
I know for me that there have been times where
like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't
feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating
myself up because I don't feel how I yeah think
I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I think I had that. We always talk about our
wedding night because like I was so done, Like I
was just like we like smoke bomb from our own
wedding and then I was so happy. The next day
we were off to Hawaii, and I was like happier
than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I
should have spoken to Arnie whatever. Oh I didn't. Really,
(39:11):
I wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah,
all the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from
that feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like,
wait a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?
Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even
checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,
(39:32):
am I God, I'm a monster, like you know, like
that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
You have worked with some really big names in music,
people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes
with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine you've been in
rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your
mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,
(40:04):
scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like how do
you feel?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well?
Speaker 5 (40:10):
That the situation was really hardcore because I was also
jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much
time to get on the time zone, and then you're
in your head you're like, I have to sleep, Like
I have to sleep because if I don't.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Sleep, I'm gonna be tired and we'll be weirdo. I'm
gonna be weirdo.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Amy.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Anytime I have a big thing like that, everyone's like,
you know, just go in and have a good time
and just see what happens.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I'm like, fuck off.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, we all want to hit, we all want like
so the pressure is so on, and also I want
to show people like ed that I can write that, like,
you know, think of me next time. You know you're
putting through these writing camps or whatever, So yeah, you
want to step up and flex.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
And seeing him walk in was really.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Crazy because it was like, I can't believe this is happening.
I'm here because you're kind of you're always like, is
he going to pull out?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah, he's like.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Amy. And then but you find that pros have a
way of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's
all the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to
do that, and you're like, oh, that's a bit of
a bummer, but all the pros and people that actually
(41:28):
have longevity make you feel so relaxed and like, just
get the best out of you straight away.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session
like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I
really hope something comes out in this session. Or do
you go in with ideas under your belt that you
are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act
like they came up organically.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I always have things in my pocket.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, always, I'm never going in there without something for backup,
just in case. You know, when you're writing a song
from scratch you really like, especially with someone like Ed,
straight away you realize I don't think I need reinforcements.
He's on fire, which is inspiring me, and this is
(42:18):
sounding great, and yeah, you just trust the process because
once again you with a pro and everything is fine.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
But I always have ideas always.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I've never really let a full thing go and acted
like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because they don't
let you.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
It's not like it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
It's as like they can sniff that, like I think,
so I prepared, Yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even
that good, like with what you could do with this person,
So you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical
things I try and not have, Like I never have
a whole song ready to go. It's more just a
line that I love, or a couple of chords that
(43:01):
I might love and or a riff or you know,
something just to kick it off in case I turn
up and ed it's like, what do you got?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, sure, kind of with you because you're like a
big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in
the industry and had really high expectations of don't have
to name names, but have you had an experience where
you went in really expecting to have a connection with
somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,
(43:39):
and then it has not been that.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a
I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh,
ye're a bit of it.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
You're just not who I thought you were and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And what kind of personality traits do you notice?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Just too cool?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, okay, just way too cool and that's fine. But
I don't know, I just feel like the world's past
that and maybe if you're I don't know, on show
it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever. When you're
in a when you're in a place where there are
other musicians who are yeah, I just like, what do
(44:21):
you think you.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Look like right now?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered that
that person has laid me down.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
All the people I've worked with legends and so kind
and still speak to today.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So when you get to this point in your career,
do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark
of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when
you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple
(44:57):
J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.
And now you're at your level, are you looking at
Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that
is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do
you know.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
It's more.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's more these days, simple things that I see that
I'm like, I think I wish I was there. Like
it's mainly just around my niece's nephews. I'm like, oh man,
I wish I was at her birthday right now, or
like I get jealous the little weird things. But it's
very normal to still look at someone having a massive
(45:34):
song that you're like, that's such a good song. I
don't know if it's jealousy, but it's definitely like, oh man,
why don't.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think of it?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to be
when I first started, I was like even jealous of
ah man, they're getting more of my manager's attention, or
they're like you know what I mean, like needy little
bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore, thank god.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest
TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,
and you said your label. You're being told go live
on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go
live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some
Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,
(46:25):
and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud
at my sister and I have shared that so many times.
Obviously those last times were a joke, but genuinely the
other ones are not. You have to work really hard
at social media when you're a musician right now, because
it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit
(46:45):
with you in terms of being an artist?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a
sense of humor and I can have a bit of
fun with it if I must do it. But I'm
also the type that I don't have anyone doing my
social media because so many artists are like, what are
you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,
but they won't right like me. They won't edit it
(47:10):
like me, they won't use the same songs that I
like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the
main channel for me to show people who I am.
If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,
I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits
(47:31):
of your life. So it's very important to me to
have a hold on that. But did I ever think
there'd be so many fucking things to do? No?
Speaker 3 (47:41):
At the start, it.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever, and then
TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh, this is
kind of fun. Like I used to make videos all
the time, like funny ones and whatever. But then yeah,
when you add them all up, and I don't even
want to say the word threads because it's something I
am willing to.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think we all draw the line.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I got to kill it. Kill it everyone, boycott please,
I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which
I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.
Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put
on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once
you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But
(48:27):
I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said
that to me. He said, I don't look at anything
because I walk through the day thinking everything's fine.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Things are not okay.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, speaking of that, you've done two seasons of a
styline Idol. You won a LOGI for your role as
a judge on the show. How have you found TV
and have you found those criticisms different?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your
profile just goes up another level, like even now walking around,
I could have a hat on or a beanie and
people know my face now, like it's no there's no hiding,
which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.
I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to
go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,
if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I
(49:18):
can't bothered whatever, And then friends and Shane were just like,
you can't live like that. You need to be able
to go to dinner and go out and just who cares.
And so now I'm really good with it. I'm just like, oh,
look whatever if I look like shit, I don't like shit. Yeah,
So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when
(49:41):
you're I feel like it's just because you're in their
face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio
or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if
you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed
with that.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And I feel like people have a weird thing and
yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to
be in my face and therefore I get to get
angry at you. Yep, and it's like, I'm not trying
to be I'm just doing my job and you have
the TV.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
On, Yeah, you're on that channel.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yes, time that I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm not.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Doing anything to go out of my way, Yeah, to
irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin
from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any
criticism that came with being on TV that surprised you
with how much they hurt?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
When it's your character, when people really think you're this
other person, it's really hard to not fight back and
protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other
hard thing is friends and family think they need to
weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,
And then especially now where I really don't care, Like
(50:52):
I mean that I do not care. You could write
the most gnally thing about me and I just would
not You just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to
explain that to friends and family, they don't believe you.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
They just don't believe you.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
And I'm like, you don't get it, Like I hit
a stage now and I've actually been like this for
my whole life. You hurt me enough, I'll just put
you in a b and I'll never look at you again.
And it's a bit gnarly, like Shane always says, Jesus Chris,
you are. But it's how I've had to do things.
And there's very few people that have hit me hard
(51:23):
enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool, You're nothing to
me now, you don't affect me whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
But that's what online is to me.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Now. If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,
I don't care. What if I don't care? You're not
my friend on my fan you know, in my circles.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
What did people say about your character? Oh?
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.
And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,
and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because
of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People
are just saying.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Yes, outright lies, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And then I've also got to remember there are kids
on there, so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read
it and be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on
here writing the like I think it's an adult, but
they're just like you suck in purple like or don't
ever wear glitter again because glitter is my favorite And
you're like people okay out there.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And probably with family and friends, it hurts them too,
Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent
of whether you feel it. Yeah, they're like, I feel
hurt because I love that person and I know who
that person is. That's not who they are. It's such
a hard thing to turn away from. But I think
the healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it,
(52:45):
it's not there.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
It's so great.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Oh my god, I could honestly be getting completely canceled
right now and I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you
from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest
barrier to happiness at this point in your life?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I
think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was
still just Ames who's worked at the Gold Coast Titans.
Sometimes there's things I really miss about people not wanting
me there to get a photo with their kids, or
(53:23):
can you sign this? It's weird you want that for
so long. You're like someone just know I am how
cool signing autographs, and then it's just that tailor as
old as time. Just be careful what you wish for.
Sometimes I'm nowhere near that, Like I feel like I've
got a good handle on things. I just put good
(53:43):
people around me, and people that I've gotten weird, I'm
just I just distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's
definitely sometimes you're like, oh, that's let me down a
little bit, that that person's now treating me different, or
and you just you can't go back. It's something you
just can't flick the switch. And remember when we did
speak about other things apart from the record or idol
(54:06):
or charts or the tour or whatever.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
You know, someday sad you say that you're in your
sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it
like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
It's a bit of a play on.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Words and titles to be honest, like, because this has
got some real playful songs on it on this album,
But you ask any artist, it's really hard to come
up with some kind of title for your album because
all the good shit's taken. But what I will say
is all my albums have been quite emotional, and when
I am happy, I'm out being happy. I'm not really
sitting there feeling all melancholy. So it's the times that
(54:54):
I do right and the things that are playing on
my mind are the sadder feelings.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
So this's just who I am as an artist. I
can't help it.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
So the whole Sunday Sadness was just I felt like
overarching theme that kind of comes in and out.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Of the whole record.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Even the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,
so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of
sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,
people know that I'm not going to be sitting there
crying and the light's going to be dim and like
it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like
it's gonna be wild out there.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
It's who I am.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is
really important to me, and that feeling of being okay
with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to
sad ish melodies and production.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
So music I grew up loving for some.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
Reason as a kid, well, I was like to think
of myself as a happy kid. I really took to
the kind of emao we sadder songs and voices.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Even though releasing this album Sunday sadness and you experience
obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's what
makes music so beautiful is the expression of those. Would
you say that right now you are happy?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah? I think I would.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, Like I'm human, So there's times where things are crap,
but I reckon now after being where I am now,
yeah I'm happy. Yeah, it's not on brand for the record,
but yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (56:48):
Yeah, it was a fun chat.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
That's all we've got time for on today's episode of
But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you
think about those big goals you have for yourself, all
those things you really really wish for that you assume
will solve all your problems. Once you get their, life
(57:12):
will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all your
striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,
there are always going to be peaks and troughs in
your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,
desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.
(57:34):
This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all
of us have those ideas of what we can achieve
that will fix all of our problems, and it is
just not that simple. That's why I really like this
show and these conversations, because they show that even the
people we look at from a distance and assume they
(57:55):
have everything going through a lot of the same emotional
experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go
and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and
I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.
And I hope you got something out of this conversation.
And if there's anyone you know who you think will
(58:17):
love it, please share it with them. If you want
to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide
into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often
the guests that we reach out to, the ones you
guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us
a review because it helps people find us and we
(58:38):
always love your feedback. Join me next week for one
of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this
podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer
of that Are You Happy is Niama Brown, and the
producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and
(58:58):
I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I think everyone does. Think.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're just there with all your people you love and adore,
and you're just having champagne and you're.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Like, let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Ah, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
the background.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome to Bitter Are You Happy? The podcast
that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,
Claire Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone
whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving
to make it in the music industry for nearly a
(01:06):
decade when it finally happened and her song Or got
her signed with a major record label.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
You get your girls just so I can or you
the entire challenges so I can feel with you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And within a year she was winning arias. She was
performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night
shows in the US. She followed it up with another
album with songs like I Said Hi and at the
Arias in twenty eighteen. She was that artist that just
wins all the awards. She won the most awards out
(01:50):
of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted
wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and
here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We
talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the
complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and
(02:14):
the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy
and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start
by asking whether you grew up in a happy family
and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
My parents were divorced already.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
They divorced when I was a baby, so my very
early memories were always grandparents. So it was really close
to my dad's mom and my mom's mom, and kind
of even close with my stepdad's moms.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I added like three nands that were like so there
for me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But yeah, it wasn't until my dad got remarried everything
sort of changed. So there were some dark times, but
I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What can you remember is being like the first time
you felt challenged by happiness, like the first time you
realized that life was a bit more complicated and you
noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was
exposed to having to grow up and really, you know
those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,
you're so upset. I remember being really strong really early on,
like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I
(03:54):
was just crying myself to sleep and being like I
just not won't always be, Like this just won't be
and I just had that belief. But I do remember
being like, this really sucks right now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Do you think growing up and seeing the kind of
fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted
people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew
up and kind of the path decisions that you made.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's why in my adult life, I've never really kicked
the bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to
be a drug addict because I had it so bad,
and I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.
I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and
I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.
I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met
(04:49):
people that are so close to me if I wasn't
who I am because of what I went through. So
in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take
it with a grain of salt, and I think it's
really comforting.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The older you get, you look at everything.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Differently, right Like, I even look at my parents, who
I was like, ah, man, you sucked at that, and
and then I'm like, they're just people. They're doing the
best they.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Can with the time, with what they had at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So you know, there are some things I'm like, no,
I won't forget that, and that's I'm not going to
give you a free pass with that one. But I
do I look at things and I'm like, we're all
just freaking human beings still and the best we can.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You rose to national and international fame with Adore in
twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade
of essentially trying to make it as an artist to
winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest One hundred.
You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that
(05:51):
you once got a rejection from someone in the music
industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.
Your music is no good and it's not something we
would be interested in anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Do you think rejection galvanized you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes, Yeah, definitely need that. You need it because it
builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.
There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.
I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes
to show that I truly do believe if you want
(06:28):
to work as hard as it takes, and if you're
strong enough, and if you really really love it and
believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I
honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've
just seen it happen so many times to people like have.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in your
resilience in that time, because there are so many people
who would give up, and so many people who do
give up. They try something for a few years, it's
not happening. They change direction. Is there anyone in your
life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,
(07:05):
really determined and keep going at something that you think
they should quit.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
There's definitely been people that I haven't been really close to,
thank God, but like I've watched and been sort of
in the friend group of them at some stage and
being like music is just not I know how bad
you want it, but yeah it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But also like I've known people, I think more so
than that, I've seen people be so talented but they
just don't have the work ethic or the drive.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
They're so naturally talented, but they're lazy.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I've experienced more of that than me sitting there going
Juez give up. Like I've had more of those feelings
like you're so friggin good, but you don't care enough.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And do you think when you look back on like
your own tenacity and the fact that you did make
it and you've had this incredible career, what is the
word you use to describe yourself? Is it a hard worker?
Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other
people's opinions like what do you put it down.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
To a combination?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think like I've always looked at like when people
are like, how do you do it?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
How does it happen? It's like a real domino effect.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But everything has to be lined up, and you don't
even know if you've got them all lined up until
it's happening, and then you look back and on reflection
you're like, oh, yeah, okay, So I was unknown, even
down to the way adore was one word and with
the letter A and my name had shark attached to it,
and just all these things that you don't realize you
have that are just falling into perfect placement. And even
(08:49):
the fact that I had had fifteen years under my
belt playing really dodgy pubs and clubs and just going
through and setting up my own gear and just being
so tired, and by the time, you know, management was
like you got a really big week ahead.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I looked at that week, I was like, looks like fun.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I used to just work full time, like had to
be there eight thirdy till five, had to race to
a club and play till like midnight to a bunch
of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my
speakers back into the car and be at work the
next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.
And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.
So I was just like when I finally saw a
(09:29):
glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of
your dream. I just really went for it, like to
the point where I was I probably was a little
bit hard to manage at the time because I was
so this is my shot.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Everyone get out of the way, no one take it
from me.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I'm so focused, it's wild, and I think that's yeah,
everything just has to be lined up.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once
you had that success. Were you kind of so determined
because you've been on this track for so long that
you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.
I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,
I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've
got this idea can we do that? And I've got
this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,
don't stop for a second. Just keep going, because this
could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and
being like, look, I can do this. I can write
(10:35):
this kind of song now, and I can play it
acoustically or I can Like I was just constantly being
like I can do it, like let me prove it
to you.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And with the people around you, some of the people
around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to
just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate
what you had rather than keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me
down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I
constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.
So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that
I wanted to work at, was like, what's up?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You're not all in on this?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You like you know whereas I came into the industry,
didn't know anything, working with people who had been in
the industry their whole life twenty thirty years or whatever,
and they're looking at it like, yeah, you just need
to let's sit and chill and don't do an album yet,
do an EP. And I'm like, why would I do
an album? I have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated.
(11:36):
If I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I
feel in a better place now, but I definitely know
I wasn't in that place at the start.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Now, when you look back and you think about when
you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do
you remember the names of the.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
People who turned you like, yeah, turn it back.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
On you, And do you hold grudges?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off
my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but
once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that
song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of
anger in it. And I always feel free after I
release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then
(12:18):
I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once
and it was really I really felt what she meant
when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.
She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is
that now I know my songs will get heard. And
for years I remember watching that when I was still
on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must
(12:40):
be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the
seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, And
now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't
matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.
And it's the best feeling ever.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And I think you probably have a totally different level
of appreciation for it because you were kind of a
fully formed human by the time that all that success
found you, and you knew what it was like for
it to not come easily totally like it's probably a
really I don't know, it probably does a lot to
make you a better human having been through all those
(13:18):
years when you had all the success with Adore, you
did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the
Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those
just seem so terrifying to me, Like out of just
all the things you've done, I don't know why the
image of that, like I just that would just be
(13:39):
so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?
What are you experiencing?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Like terrifying?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
They really are. James Corden was different because that was
the first one and everything was feeling really good and
I didn't have time to get nervous. I kind of
was just rolling out everything and yeah, it was like
one of the very first things I got offered. So
I was literally like quit my job. And then I
(14:09):
was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It was
so stupid. And then by the time I did Jimmy Fallon,
I remember I was really tired. I was on a
tour and just wasn't in the best place with the
whole team and with everything. It's a mixture of things,
(14:29):
and I honestly just didn't want.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,
and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just
all the things and still managed to do it. I
think everyone does think you're just there with all your
people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne
and you're like.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
the background.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those
experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh
my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that
there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally
behind the scenes. And you then went on to have
(15:16):
two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at
the Arias, And I want to ask about that because
that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,
everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are
just like you're ecstatic, you're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is
(15:38):
looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something
like the Arias?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,
but that's why, like all my friends are like take
me or have some champers and we'll.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It's just not like that. It's it's a work night.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Like even the very first Arias I went to, I
wasn't even nominated, and I spoke that's where I met
Dan Hume, who's done so much of the production for
my records. And you're constantly meeting people who you may
want to work with or so you're always on you know,
it's not like I'm there just like getting lit in
(16:18):
celebrating the album.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
It's not really a night.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It is a night to do that, but it's also
a night to be prepared if you do win something.
And there's red carpets and I hate, I hate, like
I hate people looking at me. I think it comes
from I don't usually wear dresses and things like that.
It's only for very special events. And if I ever
did at my old job, everyone be like, whoa Amy,
(16:43):
if you got a date later or what's happening? And
I hate that. So therefore I've always dressed like just
kind of hid a little bit. So the aris you
can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how am I
going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've decided to
have a hairstyle that's very look at me.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So but it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So yeah, you just have to go into work mode
and just find that balance and just get through it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,
I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like
the person of that year, that there are all these
options in terms of like how hectic you go with
like a dress and hair and makeup and all of that,
that if you wanted to, you could go fullL Kim Kardashian,
(17:30):
or you could be more authentic to who you are
and somebody your fans will recognize. How have you navigated that?
The idea of like having an image and keeping kind
of some semblance of who you are rather than just
leaning into the like being a woman in music.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said
before about being like a full blown adult, Like I
think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when
you're younger and you're not really you don't really know
who you are yet, because it took me so long
to work out who the hell I was, like so long,
like I just I just like writing songs. I don't
(18:15):
really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.
I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and
I love when someone has their certain look and I
love going to see them and they look the way
they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's
(18:35):
with my hair. I never really I just kind of
fell into that and then I saw people doing it
and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So
that is as far as I think I go everything else.
I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest
thing that my partner said when this was all happening,
I was like, what do I wear?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Because I've had years of.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Like getting it wrong, years of like oh my god,
like photo shoots where I look like a like Bambie
and like just just like a not me. And probably
it's my fault too, because I didn't really know. All
I knew was I liked writing songs. So when we
started getting somewhere and I had a really big meeting
with a record label in America, It's like, what do
(19:19):
I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're comfortable with,
and so I just would like jeans and an added
ass jacket and just put my sort of hair up.
And then the guy there was like, Amy, I love
your hair and I love the Adidas and I was like, okay, great,
And that's how it started. It was just so casual
and just the focus was all on the music and
the performance.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or
change your direction once you blew up, like especially once
you're in the US and people know who you are
there and you know you're probably making a lot of
people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change
(20:02):
who you are musically or in terms of your image?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Never?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Wow. I think there was just sort of so much there.
Like I had the songs, I'd done the work, people
knew I was confident the way I looked and if
I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be able
to speak and hold the room the way I could.
So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,
it's working, let it go.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Let it go to the point where I was.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Like my old manager, I was walking with him one
day and he goes, I'm really glad that you keep.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
It so simple.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's like it's like a lot of artists have all
these dress and stylists that has to travel and like,
how are we gonna fit all these dresses in there?
You know? And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen
pairs of black jeans and I've got like thirty white
T shirts and like, you know. So so I think
everyone was like, look, it's it's different, and she's a
bit different, but let's just roll with.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
This after this short break. What happened when one of
Amy's songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?
Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme
(21:16):
pressure with what you do next? And do you feel
paralyzed by that pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I didn't at that time, because I just knew I
had so many songs and I was so excited to
show them to the point where I was like, I
don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I
want to keep putting music out, and I think that's
what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,
but we need to really rense this song. It's doing
really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,
(21:44):
I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up
with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I just didn't feel I had one musician and I
won't obviously say the name of this person, but they
were like, yeah, I mean it's going to be hard
to like back up a door, and I was trying
not to let it get to me. It was said
in a very smug way. So instead of backfisting this person,
(22:10):
I was just like, you're watching your baby. You've got
no idea what I have on my sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in those
years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously imagined
what that life would look like. What would people not
know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Oh so much?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's so loaded, I feel like, especially now like I'm
in album three, sort of phase, so the dust is settled,
you know, you can start seeing who's changed, and it's
a really interesting time for me. And sometimes it can
be super heartbreaking because it's just so turbulent, like it
(23:02):
really is, especially when you've come from working nine to
five super pedestrian life and then the next menu and
it you really don't know where. There's no book, and
especially now music's in another whole ballgame.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It's so different.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Like even when I first started, I remember management being
able to sit there and forecast exactly where I would be,
what venues I'd be playing, where my album would come in,
at all these things, and they got it all right
because they could see.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
The stats, and it blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And now just knowing what I know now and the
people I've met, and they're like, there's no rule book anymore.
There's no forecasting. We have no idea what's working.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What will work, what won't work.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So it's just navigating every day and it can be
very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and
no one knows that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And how do you deal with the fact that, I
guess for a lot of people, you can't do me
music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of
a window in which you've got this amazing career. How
do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of
(24:25):
your life.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, it's a really hard balance.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It'll be at a time where I'm the busiest, where
I'll be like, I haven't spoken to the kids, like
my nieces and nephews who I'm very close with. God,
i haven't spoken to them in a minute, and I'll
just almost put this pressure on myself at the worst
times and never let myself relax. I still just don't
know how to relax. Like it's even when we go
on holidays, we're kind of pretending, like like we'll be
(24:50):
there lying on a deck chair with a panic collater
and still being like, Okay, so we'll do this, and
then we'll do that too, and then we'll all the
social media bullshit. It's like, it's just so so hard
to get that perfect balance. And I don't know if
any musician really does, but I'm always trying really hard
to get better at that. And I think the best
(25:10):
thing that I have is I'm not obsessed with it.
Like I've proven everything I wanted to prove, and I
think I'll always be able to be comfortable. So if
it ever took its toll on my family or my
relationship or anything like that, I'm happy to give it
away and just move somewhere random. And I'm not obsessed
(25:35):
with being in the limelight. I've done it so much
because there's been cool opportunities like Australian Idol, like all
these things, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, and we're
always on my manager and partner and myself like that's cool,
let's do it. Let's see what happens. So everything's been
fine up until now. But I think it's okay. I
feel okay about it because in the back of my
(25:56):
head I know that I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's just cool to do.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But if it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money
changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just
working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a
certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that
sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I
(26:24):
imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a
lot of problems, like that song is legit. More money,
more problems.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Like I'm always interested as somebody who can't relate to
the problems. What problems.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
It's a hard one to explain.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It exposes all the rest of the problems because you're like, oh,
hang on a minute, got like a stack of money.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Why am I feeling empty?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because it also just
changes the dynamic of so many things because I think
people think I'm like a billionaire or something like even
my family, Like I'll get cent links of palaces around
Europe and I'm like you should buy this, like bitch,
(27:18):
sit out. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I think
people and I used to think it too. I used
to see people on television and go, oh, all the
money in the world, they probably got private jets, And
I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,
you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to
get to do that make you money. But it's also,
(27:41):
like I said before, you don't know how long that's
going to last.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Life's long if you're lucky.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So yeah, you're constantly looking at it like Okay, well
that's cool for now and some people when you have
a good catalog, I guess there are times where you
can look it into the future and go cool, like
I'll sell it then and that'll be worth this much
and you can do a little bit of that. But yeah,
the rest of it's all up in the air. So
you've got to be really clever. You know.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I'm lucky.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I married an accountant, so's I've got this nerd with
me all the time knowing what to do. So but
I can see how people get all this success and
just blow it all and get really excited and then
things happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,
you're like, shit, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,
and it would be easy to assume that that amount
of money is going to come in for the rest
of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,
hold on, I've got to be aware of this being
a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does
(28:45):
money make life easier?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Like I said before, Like, yeah, in some ways, like
in the classic ways you think, like being owed buy
a house, or certain things, little treats and holidays and
whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,
so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,
(29:11):
and I need help with this, and they all need
to be paid. And I want my shows to look
like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need
production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they
need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't
know how much things cost, like it all kind of
adds up.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And if you want to do something at a high level.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And good quality, yeah, man, that money can like go
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after
you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner
manage you? I want to know the best part and
the worst part, So.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Loaded we could be here for a long time. The
best part is he knows me better than anyone. I
trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy Show
project better than I do. He's very smart with his
decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then I guess
(30:20):
the hard bit is learning to be like, hey, I'm
also your wife. We love each other, like you know,
just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's
calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally
have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try
not talk about work.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in
professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over
and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.
What is your fight with your husband?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
The constant fight is.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
So we'll have our separate days and I would have
just been you know, going go and going interview whatever
whatever I'm doing, even if I'm in the studio and
he's had I had all these conversations and worked all
through the day and done some planning and that, and
I'll always want to know what's going on because it's
actually my business too. So but he's had a day
(31:22):
and has not got off the phone and he's like, oh, babe,
I just and I'm like, I just don't know anything. Ever,
He's like, I know, I know, but like I've literally
just been talking about you all day. And I really
feel for him, because it's not just the day that
he speaks about me with agents and whoever. He'll go
to the pub and be like, oh that's Amy Shark's husband,
(31:44):
or hey, mate, saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy,
and like I would hate me, and he does this
so well because he obviously loves me very much. But
I can understand when he's like, there's so much to
fill you in on. I just like if we could
just talk about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,
(32:06):
but I want to know, Yeah, I want to know
what's going on, like you know, so that it's the
constant because essentially we work in the same thing, but
we're doing different things for the day usually, So yeah,
I always hassle him about that, and he hassles me
about leaving him alone.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think
he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,
I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right
because of your profile and who you are, people would
be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X
y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Ye
could not care. You won't see him at anything. He's
so happy for me and he's happy that he knows
he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he
doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does
like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just
(33:11):
so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.
He gets to work in music, and you know, he's
got such a big hand in the A and R
ring of the record and he gets so much from that.
I think he's just proud, like when people come up.
But he obviously he has his moments where he's like,
oh my god, one more person, and then we'll go
to his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.
(33:33):
So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.
But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like
he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like
the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until
he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just
not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples
and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just
(33:55):
being like trying to sort of use that to jump
start their career or like you know, they're just like
I want to do something too, Now what can I do?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And it's probably huge blessing that you've been together
for so long, and that together before all of this happened.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.
I don't have it in me to learn anyone else
or to meet other parents of people.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I'm tapped. I'm done, Like especially now, Like.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I look at people with profiles and they're dating, and
I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he know like like or
you know, vice versa, like are you dating this girl?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Like?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Is she just dating you because you're such and such?
Like it's it must be so hard. I'm really glad
that that.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Do after the break, the surprising times when Amy thought
she'd feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on
this podcast about the idea that the world lies to
(35:09):
us a bit about happiness and that often the moments
we expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so
I often ask people if they have a moment they
can think of where the world told them they'd be
happy and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside
to be super shiny and happy and together, and behind
(35:32):
the scenes it was a very different story.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this
is hard, and especially now more than any other time.
Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows
where people think I'm living it up and I'm like
crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and
play the show. So there's all those little things sort
(35:56):
of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where
you can't really explain it. You're sort of just sitting
still and you really don't know what the next move is,
and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're
this when you're really still just that and I don't
I can't explain it, but it gets really I can
(36:19):
see how artists really need to check in with their
mental health because it's just hard to put your finger
on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.
I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even
know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,
I had the best conversation with Tom's launch, which sounds crazy,
on this boat the day of his show, and I
(36:40):
was talking to him and I'm like, this is so fun,
Like you know, we're on the Sydney Harbor and he's like,
is it's like you're having fun?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
And I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys? I don't know anymore.
I guys, I guess.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So He's like, damn, I feel that way, and I'm like, yeah,
I guess. Like I tour so much, so the thought
of packing a bag.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Form of fun. It's like, huh, what, like where are
we going to go?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.
You you associate travel and being at these certain places
with work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't
know when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,
and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers
of that every now and then you can have all
(37:23):
this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and
then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I
see her run up to me like just drops everything.
That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm
so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,
which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't
(37:43):
mean shit before. Really, it's like that's the coolest thing
about having all these massive highs that you never thought
you'd have because the simplest things are so special.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat
and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think
that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,
you must find yourself in these situation where you're in
beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're
being doted on. Ye, And it's all the criteria of
(38:19):
what makes for a happy moment, and the fact is
that you just you don't always feel that way. Yeah,
And sometimes you're just not really in the moment for
whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean
I know for me that there have been times where
like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't
feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating
myself up because I don't feel how I yeah think
I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I think I had that. We always talk about our
wedding night because like I was so done, Like I
was just like we like smoke bomb from our own
wedding and then I was so happy. The next day
we were off to Hawaii, and I was like happier
than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I
should have spoken to Arnie whatever. Oh I didn't. Really,
(39:11):
I wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah,
all the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from
that feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like,
wait a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?
Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even
checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,
(39:32):
am I God, I'm a monster, like you know, like
that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
You have worked with some really big names in music,
people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes
with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine you've been in
rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your
mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,
(40:04):
scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like how do
you feel?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well?
Speaker 5 (40:10):
That the situation was really hardcore because I was also
jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much
time to get on the time zone, and then you're
in your head you're like, I have to sleep, Like
I have to sleep because if I don't.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Sleep, I'm gonna be tired and we'll be weirdo. I'm
gonna be weirdo.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Amy.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Anytime I have a big thing like that, everyone's like,
you know, just go in and have a good time
and just see what happens.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I'm like, fuck off.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, we all want to hit, we all want like
so the pressure is so on, and also I want
to show people like ed that I can write that, like,
you know, think of me next time. You know you're
putting through these writing camps or whatever, So yeah, you
want to step up and flex.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
And seeing him walk in was really.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Crazy because it was like, I can't believe this is happening.
I'm here because you're kind of you're always like, is
he going to pull out?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah, he's like.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Amy. And then but you find that pros have a
way of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's
all the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to
do that, and you're like, oh, that's a bit of
a bummer, but all the pros and people that actually
(41:28):
have longevity make you feel so relaxed and like, just
get the best out of you straight away.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session
like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I
really hope something comes out in this session. Or do
you go in with ideas under your belt that you
are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act
like they came up organically.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I always have things in my pocket.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, always, I'm never going in there without something for backup,
just in case. You know, when you're writing a song
from scratch you really like, especially with someone like Ed,
straight away you realize I don't think I need reinforcements.
He's on fire, which is inspiring me, and this is
(42:18):
sounding great, and yeah, you just trust the process because
once again you with a pro and everything is fine.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
But I always have ideas always.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I've never really let a full thing go and acted
like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because they don't
let you.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
It's not like it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
It's as like they can sniff that, like I think,
so I prepared, Yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even
that good, like with what you could do with this person,
So you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical
things I try and not have, Like I never have
a whole song ready to go. It's more just a
line that I love, or a couple of chords that
(43:01):
I might love and or a riff or you know,
something just to kick it off in case I turn
up and ed it's like, what do you got?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, sure, kind of with you because you're like a
big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in
the industry and had really high expectations of don't have
to name names, but have you had an experience where
you went in really expecting to have a connection with
somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,
(43:39):
and then it has not been that.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a
I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh,
ye're a bit of it.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
You're just not who I thought you were and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And what kind of personality traits do you notice?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Just too cool?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, okay, just way too cool and that's fine. But
I don't know, I just feel like the world's past
that and maybe if you're I don't know, on show
it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever. When you're
in a when you're in a place where there are
other musicians who are yeah, I just like, what do
(44:21):
you think you.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Look like right now?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered that
that person has laid me down.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
All the people I've worked with legends and so kind
and still speak to today.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So when you get to this point in your career,
do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark
of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when
you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple
(44:57):
J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.
And now you're at your level, are you looking at
Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that
is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do
you know.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
It's more.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's more these days, simple things that I see that
I'm like, I think I wish I was there. Like
it's mainly just around my niece's nephews. I'm like, oh man,
I wish I was at her birthday right now, or
like I get jealous the little weird things. But it's
very normal to still look at someone having a massive
(45:34):
song that you're like, that's such a good song. I
don't know if it's jealousy, but it's definitely like, oh man,
why don't.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think of it?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to be
when I first started, I was like even jealous of
ah man, they're getting more of my manager's attention, or
they're like you know what I mean, like needy little
bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore, thank god.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest
TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,
and you said your label. You're being told go live
on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go
live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some
Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,
(46:25):
and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud
at my sister and I have shared that so many times.
Obviously those last times were a joke, but genuinely the
other ones are not. You have to work really hard
at social media when you're a musician right now, because
it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit
(46:45):
with you in terms of being an artist?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a
sense of humor and I can have a bit of
fun with it if I must do it. But I'm
also the type that I don't have anyone doing my
social media because so many artists are like, what are
you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,
but they won't right like me. They won't edit it
(47:10):
like me, they won't use the same songs that I
like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the
main channel for me to show people who I am.
If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,
I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits
(47:31):
of your life. So it's very important to me to
have a hold on that. But did I ever think
there'd be so many fucking things to do? No?
Speaker 3 (47:41):
At the start, it.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever, and then
TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh, this is
kind of fun. Like I used to make videos all
the time, like funny ones and whatever. But then yeah,
when you add them all up, and I don't even
want to say the word threads because it's something I
am willing to.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think we all draw the line.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I got to kill it. Kill it everyone, boycott please,
I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which
I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.
Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put
on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once
you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But
(48:27):
I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said
that to me. He said, I don't look at anything
because I walk through the day thinking everything's fine.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Things are not okay.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, speaking of that, you've done two seasons of a
styline Idol. You won a LOGI for your role as
a judge on the show. How have you found TV
and have you found those criticisms different?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your
profile just goes up another level, like even now walking around,
I could have a hat on or a beanie and
people know my face now, like it's no there's no hiding,
which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.
I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to
go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,
if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I
(49:18):
can't bothered whatever, And then friends and Shane were just like,
you can't live like that. You need to be able
to go to dinner and go out and just who cares.
And so now I'm really good with it. I'm just like, oh,
look whatever if I look like shit, I don't like shit. Yeah,
So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when
(49:41):
you're I feel like it's just because you're in their
face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio
or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if
you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed
with that.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And I feel like people have a weird thing and
yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to
be in my face and therefore I get to get
angry at you. Yep, and it's like, I'm not trying
to be I'm just doing my job and you have
the TV.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
On, Yeah, you're on that channel.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yes, time that I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm not.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Doing anything to go out of my way, Yeah, to
irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin
from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any
criticism that came with being on TV that surprised you
with how much they hurt?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
When it's your character, when people really think you're this
other person, it's really hard to not fight back and
protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other
hard thing is friends and family think they need to
weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,
And then especially now where I really don't care, Like
(50:52):
I mean that I do not care. You could write
the most gnally thing about me and I just would
not You just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to
explain that to friends and family, they don't believe you.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
They just don't believe you.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
And I'm like, you don't get it, Like I hit
a stage now and I've actually been like this for
my whole life. You hurt me enough, I'll just put
you in a b and I'll never look at you again.
And it's a bit gnarly, like Shane always says, Jesus Chris,
you are. But it's how I've had to do things.
And there's very few people that have hit me hard
(51:23):
enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool, You're nothing to
me now, you don't affect me whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
But that's what online is to me.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Now. If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,
I don't care. What if I don't care? You're not
my friend on my fan you know, in my circles.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
What did people say about your character? Oh?
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.
And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,
and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because
of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People
are just saying.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Yes, outright lies, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And then I've also got to remember there are kids
on there, so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read
it and be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on
here writing the like I think it's an adult, but
they're just like you suck in purple like or don't
ever wear glitter again because glitter is my favorite And
you're like people okay out there.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And probably with family and friends, it hurts them too,
Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent
of whether you feel it. Yeah, they're like, I feel
hurt because I love that person and I know who
that person is. That's not who they are. It's such
a hard thing to turn away from. But I think
the healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it,
(52:45):
it's not there.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
It's so great.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Oh my god, I could honestly be getting completely canceled
right now and I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you
from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest
barrier to happiness at this point in your life?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I
think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was
still just Ames who's worked at the Gold Coast Titans.
Sometimes there's things I really miss about people not wanting
me there to get a photo with their kids, or
(53:23):
can you sign this? It's weird you want that for
so long. You're like someone just know I am how
cool signing autographs, and then it's just that tailor as
old as time. Just be careful what you wish for.
Sometimes I'm nowhere near that, Like I feel like I've
got a good handle on things. I just put good
(53:43):
people around me, and people that I've gotten weird, I'm
just I just distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's
definitely sometimes you're like, oh, that's let me down a
little bit, that that person's now treating me different, or
and you just you can't go back. It's something you
just can't flick the switch. And remember when we did
speak about other things apart from the record or idol
(54:06):
or charts or the tour or whatever.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
You know, someday sad you say that you're in your
sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it
like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
It's a bit of a play on.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Words and titles to be honest, like, because this has
got some real playful songs on it on this album,
But you ask any artist, it's really hard to come
up with some kind of title for your album because
all the good shit's taken. But what I will say
is all my albums have been quite emotional, and when
I am happy, I'm out being happy. I'm not really
sitting there feeling all melancholy. So it's the times that
(54:54):
I do right and the things that are playing on
my mind are the sadder feelings.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
So this's just who I am as an artist. I
can't help it.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
So the whole Sunday Sadness was just I felt like
overarching theme that kind of comes in and out.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Of the whole record.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Even the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,
so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of
sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,
people know that I'm not going to be sitting there
crying and the light's going to be dim and like
it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like
it's gonna be wild out there.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
It's who I am.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is
really important to me, and that feeling of being okay
with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to
sad ish melodies and production.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
So music I grew up loving for some.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
Reason as a kid, well, I was like to think
of myself as a happy kid. I really took to
the kind of emao we sadder songs and voices.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Even though releasing this album Sunday sadness and you experience
obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's what
makes music so beautiful is the expression of those. Would
you say that right now you are happy?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah? I think I would.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, Like I'm human, So there's times where things are crap,
but I reckon now after being where I am now,
yeah I'm happy. Yeah, it's not on brand for the record,
but yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (56:48):
Yeah, it was a fun chat.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
That's all we've got time for on today's episode of
But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you
think about those big goals you have for yourself, all
those things you really really wish for that you assume
will solve all your problems. Once you get their, life
(57:12):
will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all your
striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,
there are always going to be peaks and troughs in
your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,
desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.
(57:34):
This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all
of us have those ideas of what we can achieve
that will fix all of our problems, and it is
just not that simple. That's why I really like this
show and these conversations, because they show that even the
people we look at from a distance and assume they
(57:55):
have everything going through a lot of the same emotional
experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go
and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and
I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.
And I hope you got something out of this conversation.
And if there's anyone you know who you think will
(58:17):
love it, please share it with them. If you want
to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide
into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often
the guests that we reach out to, the ones you
guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us
a review because it helps people find us and we
(58:38):
always love your feedback. Join me next week for one
of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this
podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer
of that Are You Happy is Niama Brown, and the
producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and
(58:58):
I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.
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