October 9, 2024 • 46 mins
Have you ever had to walk away from something you thought you wanted?
In this deeply vulnerable conversation, actress and author Steph Tisdell discusses leaving a toxic relationship, moving on from jobs that didn’t fit her anymore, and taking a break from social media.
On her journey to happiness—whatever that looks like for her—Steph also talks about the unique struggle she faces as an Indigenous woman trying to connect with both her own community and the wider Australian audience.
So, has Steph Tisdell found happiness? You'll have to listen to find out.
This episode contains references to domestic violence. If you or someone you know needs support, you can contact 1800 RESPECT.
THE END BITS
- You can find out more about Steph's book The Skin I'm In here.
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Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au to share your feedback about the show or to suggest a guest.
CREDITS:
Host: Clare Stephens
Guest: Steph Tisdell
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Producer: Cassie Merritt
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mama Ma I
acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness,
because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now my happy's aren't as happy, but my
sad's Arena's sad.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy? This is
the podcast that ask the questions you've always wanted to
know from the people who appear to have it all.
I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall is somebody
you might know from her viral stand up comedy. You
might also know her from her roles on TV shows
(01:07):
like Total Control and Bump, or from movies like Class
of Seven and Lovers in the Air, or for her
writing for TV on the award winning comedy fisk on
Bump and her debut young adult book The Skin I'm In.
She had me laughing before and after this conversation. She's
(01:31):
exceptionally warm, but it's also one of the most emotionally
raw conversations I've had on this show and it really
really stuck with me. She was a rising star in
comedy and on stage she was being applauded by sold
out audiences. She was a golden girl of Australian comedy,
(01:55):
and then behind the scenes she was living a very
different life where she was in an abusive relationship with
someone who isolated her and financially abused her and knew
exactly how to pinpoint her vulnerabilities to hurt her. And
she is incredibly insightful about how certain types of people
(02:22):
can capitalize on your kindness and empathy. I asked her
about the tension as a First Nations woman of creating
comedy for two different audiences, one which is her own
community and one which is the rest of Australia. We
talk about some pretty heavy topics in this conversation, so
(02:45):
I'm going to pop some links in the show notes
for anyone who needs support. We start our conversation where
I like to start all the conversations on this show,
by asking if Steph had a happy childhood. I want
to start with how you grew up and whether you
(03:05):
grew up in a happy family, because this podcast is
all about happiness and I wonder how the way your
life started kind of informed your approach to happiness.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously,
I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew
up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but
(03:37):
maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected
at all, It's just I was the youngest of four kids,
and my parents were really, really, really busy to make
sure they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't
really even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood,
but I also recognize that there are some mental.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Health issues that I have probably as a result.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But I think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever
want to make it seem anything other than privileged.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What
do you kind of remember was the thing that made
you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and
I think it was a lot of pressure. I think
I'm very different from the rest of my family in
that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm
the only girl, and I think there was a lot
of don't be like that. I think that was the
(04:50):
biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents
had a really interesting dynamic. We were just raised to
be the best children and put everybody else first, And
as a result, I've been in a lot of very
damaging relationship I think with friends, with you know, partners,
(05:14):
because I wanted to see the best and am used
to taking that role of I will nurture, nurture, nurture,
and my feelings don't matter.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And so do you think you leaving that environment in
relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people?
Like do you think you're putting that on to other
people or do you think that you're just used to
not prioritizing yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I think I have that stereotypical I want to fix everyone.
It's been really hard to kind of unloan that because
I'm not a dumb person. And you go, you kind
of go, yeah, But the reason I'm making these decisions
is because I have the capacity and I know that
I have the capacity and the insight and the softness
(06:06):
to allow people to be a little broken something. So
you go, no, no, no, it's fine, It's different. I need
to love somebody unconditionally because they haven't been shown that before.
But the problem is that actually there is such thing
as people just being wankers?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And yeah, I make too many excuses for people, and
then wonder how the fuck I ended up where I
ended up.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Did you grow up with any because just from what
I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up
with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea,
that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background
that I find it hard to differentiate between the two.
That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant
to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is
(06:56):
see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't
have your best interest in it. And I have no
idea how those two things co exist.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't grow up
with religion. I just I think I grew up with
a lot of different perspectives and this kind of attitude
that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
We were always kind.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Of encouraged to delve deep and figure out why somebody
would do something which you know, in hindsight or with therapy,
I recognized was I wasn't allowed to have a feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
But at the.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Time it kind of makes you feel smart, right as
a kid to be like, oh, that's all right, they
were just feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging
people in my life as a result of going because
I know where it's coming from, or because I feel
I know better, I have to forgive this and cop this.
(07:55):
And you know, I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's
worth talking to is you know? Yeah, And one of
the things that my therapist is trying to teach me
it's like, you're allowed to set boundaries and I go, oh, yeah,
but you've got to let somebody you know, Like yeah,
so I really didn't expect childhood stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
This was a real shock to me. Like I've sorry, no, no, no,
it's fine. No, it's because I didn't want to be prepared.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But as somebody who's very openly vulnerable, I feel like
that's maybe the one area that I'm not.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So it's like, interesting, I've gone real serious.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods,
it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you
might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health.
You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for
prioritizing your own happiness. Yeah, you've just released your first
(08:49):
novel or the skin I'm in, and before the book begins,
you have a page that reads, this book was written
on the back of the hardest years of my life
to date, an escape and catharsis to unpack some of
the demons that come with struggling with identity and finding
your place in the world. Can you explain that?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like,
I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four
years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very
abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing
it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying.
(09:34):
I was so burnt out, I was so busy, and
then I was just being harassed and threatened and my
livelihood was being threatened and I had to was just
before I started filming Total Control, which was like my
big sort of breakout thing, and I had to call
up the producers and say I need to come down
(09:56):
to Sydney. Early because I might get murdered. And I
go on to set I've never really done before, and
people are touching your face, you know, the whole time,
and you're so surrounded by people, and it was like great.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It was the biggest break for me.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
But I would come back to my hotel and just
see emails upon emails upon emails and have to go
to the police and be like, Okay, he's breached the
DVO and just the emotional turmoil of everything, and you
know that it's going to happen, and then you think
it won't, but you can't figure out why you keep
(10:34):
on staying and then when you finally go, you go, oh,
it's worse than I thought.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean, it's really hard to talk about because I
always feel like I'm lucky because he didn't hit me.
But the more that I listen and learn, I go,
this was fucking exactly what coercive control is. And I
had no idea who I was at the end of it,
and I didn't have a second to stop and think
(10:59):
about who I was, and so I was isolated and
I was sort of stepping into this new world and
it's like you both want to talk about it and
not talk about it and laugh about it and not
laugh about it. And yeah, and while that was happening,
some I guess difficult stuff happened in my career, and
(11:19):
even like, I don't think it would have been a
problem at all had I not already been going through that.
But when you do what you love and you are
doing it because you have a goal in mind, nobody
tells you how weird it feels when people know who
you are and how much because I'm a really authentic person,
(11:41):
and how hard it is to know how much to
give and how how much you may.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Open yourself up to shit. Yeah, it was a really
hard time.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And then at the end of it, I ended up
doing another show with all of these queer women and
they're like, I'm pretty sure your queer stuff and I
was like, no, I'm not, and that I went, oh, no,
I probably am. Yeah, So like it was weird, like
it just one year I dated man and the next
year dated women and it was you know that it
was a hard time and it was like a re
teenagehood and I had to like of go, fucking hell,
(12:12):
how much did I hate myself to let this person
treat me like this for so long without ever honestly
believing I deserved better than that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Do you think it was a process of things starting
really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control,
and then getting to the point like when you say
somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching dbos. Was it so
(12:47):
small that it was almost just like it starts and
then by the time it gets to that, it's been
so gradual that you think it's normal.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
No, I think that's probably the case for a lot
of people. When I look back, I go, what the
fuck did I do? It was so obvious so soon.
It really fucked me up because I recognized that I
don't think I cared what I thought about who I did,
and I just wanted to be loved, and the male
gaze was so important to me, and I just wanted intimacy.
(13:18):
I wanted children, so I really wanted to have kids
with him, which I'm so fucking glad that I didn't,
but like, I just wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Honestly, I look back and I go, I do not
know how I.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Ever thought that that was acceptable, even the first time
that I told him that I loved him, was oh,
it makes me sick thinking back, like, it makes me
really sad for the version of me that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Would have accepted that.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I just thought he was so beautiful, you know. And
I said to him because I just saw a sadness
in his eyes that I recognized, I think, And I
was like, you're so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
What are you doing with me? You could have anyone?
And he's like, oh, no, you know. I was like, no,
I look at you, and.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He goes, okay, So look, yeah, if we asked ten
people on the street if they found you attractive, maybe one,
maybe two would say yes, and then the majority wouldn't.
But at least I think you're beautiful. And I was like,
I love you. That was my first time that I
told him I loved him, because I just I need
that so badly. I mean, by the end of it,
(14:27):
a lot of isolation. But I was also paying our
rent and our bills, paying him a wage. He just
had his finger in every pie, you know. And my
friends always laughed me like, Steph, I don't even think
he likes you.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I don't know that he just he hates you, Like
this is a man who does not like you.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But I was just scared to leave him because because
I knew that he was wrong, And it was like,
did I actually stay because my own ego and pride?
And it's like, yeah, when somebody takes away everything else,
you'll stay just to go. He'll realize soon that that's
not This isn't okay. It's really odd.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
What I find really interesting is even you talk me
about your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I
almost think profound empathy can be a curse because you
talk about that sadness that you saw in his eyes,
and I'm sure it was there. And when you can
look at anyone and see their pain and see who
(15:29):
they are, it's then really hard to look at them
and say objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you
do gymnastics to work out their motivation. No, actually they're
right because I did this. And it's this weird thing
where empathy has to stop somewhere. It's weird.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the
with therapy afterwards toos, it's like, yeah, but if you
can understand where somebody's coming from, or like if you
know that they don't see what they're doing, because they
have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got a
gift you can offer them, and it say no, no, no, no,
they don't.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Want to change.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And also the thing that I think I really struggled
with was some people are sociopathic. Like of course, like
I was earning good money by the time that I
left him. I don't know anymore, but I was for
a time. Because acting is much harder than comedy. You
wouldn't have thought that, out of the two, comedy was
(16:26):
the money maker.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But anyway, but like I.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Think he saw in me an ambitious but insecure woman,
you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah, I think I
was right for the picking, you know. And I think, though,
what is difficult. I had a therapy session last week
where my therapist said I was saying to her that
(16:50):
somebody that I was talking to set a boundary and
they weren't mad at me. And I was like, why
why aren't they mad at me? She's like, because just
letting you know that's a boundary. And I was like,
but I've obviously done something wrong. She's like, no, that's
not And I said, now I need to know what
that I can't settle, And they must be hiding something
from me. And she said, feel more comfortable with anger,
(17:13):
and I said, because I know how to react to
anger in a way that makes me feel softer or
reinforces my own sense of self, which is soft, kind, whatever,
And what a fucked thing.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And it's hard to know when somebody said a boundary
with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're
not angry with you because they've set the boundary. Yes,
it's like, no, this is actually a really safe relation.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah,
one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do
I need to fit like?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And that Yeah, my therapist was like, do you feel
better being in fix it mode? And I was like,
fucking don't.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Do this today.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
But it's true, like there's a level of.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Control if you're somebody who you know, like the part
of me that I identify with outwardly, or the one
thing that I want people to know about me above
anything else, you know, like the biggest compliment that you
could give me is that I'm kind, Do you know
what I mean? I want to be kind because that's
all I've ever wanted to be. And so it's like
(18:11):
if I don't feel like I'm being the kindest person
in the whole world or in the room or whatever
it is, that that can erode at such a weird thing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and
think you're.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
A sociopath one hundred.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
But you have to because those people exist. They just do.
And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the
world if they weren't sociopaths.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
They're just.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
H and it's it's so hard, hey, And but like
my dad is the world's kindest man, like to his detriment, right,
And one time we went out for dinner and like,
this was like the last big fight that I have
with my dad. We don't fight, we're really close, but
we had a big fight because we went to dinner
and I, for some unknown reasons, I don't even eat fish,
but I ordered fish and chips and they brought out
(18:54):
the wrong thing. They brought out like a steamed fish,
and I was like, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Not, I'm not going to be eating yeah, and then.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff, I'll
eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even allowed
to eat fish. He's like allergic to fish, and I
was like, like, no, I could just ask for that
isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take
it back? And we had a fight because he got
up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask
for the other thing.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yes, we're actually allowed, actually allowed, and it's okay, and
no one's going to cry and no one's going to
hate us.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But man, there was a big fight at the table
that line, and he was very unhappy that I didn't
eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
You know that you didn't order us Exactly exactly after
the break, Steph and I talk about the joke that
made her quit comedy. I have a theory that the
world lies to us a bit about happiness and that
(19:59):
often the moments that externally look the happiest internally or not.
And to me, it sounds like you had that experience
coming up in where on the outside you were seriously
Australia's Findings comedian. Everybody was just obsessed and you were
(20:21):
so confident and so charismatic, and you're on stage and
you're doing TV and looks like things couldn't go better,
and then behind the scenes you're going through something so hard.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the
whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his
end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the
hardest time in my life, and you become this needy, desperate,
like childlike version of yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I feel really emotional when you leave because you.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Like have to restore all of your old relationships. And yeah,
it was kind of new that I was in a
position where I was doing so well, so all of
my even people quite close to me, like, oh my god,
look at you blow them up, you know, and you
just go. I literally I feel ungrateful to talk about
(21:14):
how fucking hard this is. And the better that my
career was going, the more I felt that I deserved
what was happening, because do you know what I'm saying,
I didn't want to feel like, oh on now, I
think I'm better than that. This is what I am.
But at the end of the day, I also think
that like the way that we sort of portray success
(21:38):
publicly on screen or whatever, including on social media, is
so fucked because there's only two things that make somebody successful.
I think it's hard work and emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That's it. Like anybody can do it, do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, and you can't. Interestingly, there are two things you
can't see in a photo or a video or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
You also can't teach them.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I am always surprised by people.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That I meet that I look up to, and I go, oh,
it's not these things that I have in my head
of like odds because they're beautiful. It's because of oh
they grew up here or they had this privilege.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's like people who know how to make everyone feel
safe in the space. Well women, I don't know, there's
a lot of fuck Menah.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
But who you mean? You go, how the hell did
you get there? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
But like a lot of the women that I've met,
I go, oh, you know how to make people feel.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love that. That's actually really profound. And the hard
work and emotional intelligence, the hard work element I completely
agree with and have thought that you look at anybody,
and as somebody who can be quite cynical, I can
look at people and be like, oh, yeah, you're there
because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there
because of even like you can dismiss things in so
(22:55):
many different ways about why people have what they have,
whenever you get close to it, you see, oh you
actually do I have anything without hard work. It's very
hard to stumble up with without any hard work. And
then emotional intelligence. That's very, very very true. Yeah, that's
something you notice.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met
This is such a weird person to bring up because
it's not the most famous person that I've met.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
She's just had this like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
She was on my TV when I was a teenager,
you know, Caitlin Stacy.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I was like, what's she gonna be like?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And she's fucking the smartest person I've ever met, like
and hard working.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And that was kind of after you were doing comedy
doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting?
And why did you quit comedy?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Because comedy was going to put me in the grave.
It's the hardest thing.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
It's the hardest because this is this is how I
always explain it. It's the most vulnerable thing you'll ever
do in the least intimate setting. I tell secrets on
stage that I haven't told my closest friends, you know.
And it's also incredibly lonely. I never fit in with
other comedians, mostly because they're just a.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Lot cooler than me. Like I'm not a cool person.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I'd have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm
shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like
I don't know how to banter. I want a D
and M and I want to have an emotional yarn
and I also I was having a different experience to
the people that I was performing with, Like I went
on tour, for example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival
road show and it used to drive me nuts because
(24:44):
I was always performing with straight white men. But we
get to somewhere and when you're a person of color,
I don't care who you are. There is a sixth
sense that you have. It doesn't matter how how much
you can get by, doesn't matter where you come from.
You have a sixth sense that lets you know when
you're not being perceived the way that other people are
(25:06):
being perceived. And the amount of times that I stepped
onto a stage, I always open with I'm a proud
Aboriginal woman, and I see eye rolls, and I see people, oh,
here we go, and you see this kind of thing,
and you have to stand there with the biggest smile
on and advocate, knowing that there are people who already
(25:30):
don't want to laugh, think that you're the diversity token Act.
And then you've also got this kind of extra scanning
that comes from within your own community as well, because
we're so afraid of having our image and reputation tainted
and tarnished because it's never been under our control, that
(25:51):
there is this sort of policing or gate keeping that happens,
and it happens in a lot of marginalized groups, and
I understand it. But the amount of work and thought
that went into every single word that I said on
stage felt like I was doing a different task to
my piece.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oh one hundred. They literally would get up, And I'm
sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political
correctness at the door. Be as cutting edge and wild
as I possibly can. But when you have an extra
sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's
enough being a bloody woman, and then you're an Indigenous
(26:29):
woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of
representing your community in a way that they are happy with.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this
conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and
shame about it.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
As I'm getting older, I'm going No.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I still and even when I felt guilt or shame
for it, I still stand by. I kind of got
asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is
it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I
was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach
to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because
I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that.
The problem is that if you steer indigenous material towards
(27:10):
white people, you begin to exclude your own people, and
that is a very shameful and difficult process to handle,
where you go, oh, fuck, I haven't even performed for
black fellows, and that long, I don't even know if
this is funny anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
To my own people.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, but I think as well though, because comedy was
never about I don't know, being famous or whatever. It
was about sharing love and sending a message. Then again,
it felt like I was just playing a different game
to other people, And so my level of fear and
nerves and anxiety before and after a gig felt like
(27:46):
I was being too much again or too emotional or whatever,
like there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm
not saying that there aren't. I just didn't feel like
it was supportive enough for something.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It wasn't wasn't your people.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
No, no, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment
going like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing
this joke and whatever, and then you go on theres
a funny punchline.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You go, no, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Need to know whether you understand that I you know,
kind of I've built all of this behind it to
make sure that this says all of this, and most
people won't see all of this, but one person, you know,
and it's kind of like okay. And it was always
late nights, early flights, alone all the time, and you
get so weird when you're alone but surrounded by people,
(28:31):
like you know, you get up on stage absolutely exhausted.
You just give everything, and then you step off stage
and people are like, stay being funny.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
That was all I had, Man, like that was all
I had, Like, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough
fit coming off stage and then people being like you
still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted,
I need to go to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic.
I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours
about shit, and I like, and I think, I'm so
glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, And I
hate saying it, but that's the fucking truth, man. And
I think that this is very specific to comedians as well.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, yeah, But do you know what is so funny
is that I think probably the thing that pushed me
over the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that
happened with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I
have to call up a venue and be like, if
you see this person, you have to call the police, like,
which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do,
(29:42):
but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger
and they go, so where is he, and I'm like,
he's got a DVO.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I was institutionalized I was gonna ask when you're talking
about your ex, I'm like, there's a lot of jokes
you made about a certain person, and I was going
to say, is that here, Yeah, yeah, because all those
they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes, and they were
asking something pretty fucked up.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah, I
didn't feel like that.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
But also like the was a bit of my existence
was after the fact, he was like, well, I.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Made you, Oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to.
And he was like trying to go through courts and everything,
and I'm like and he's like, you only got a
DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold
your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you
won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
That's not how Wow, that's not how art works. You're
not entitled to my staff because it happened to me
in my life. Wow. But it really is that contrast
between you on stage looking so happy, relaxed, at peace
at home, and clearly there was a lot going on
(30:54):
around that, but.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I did feel happy in those moments because I was
away from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful
feeling than being on stage because it's love. That's why
I think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when
I was doing more TV comedy then live comedy. I've
got some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crabineri, who
(31:18):
is my mentor who's changed my life, and he always
says to me, the one thing that you need to
know to be successful is if you love your audience,
they'll love you. And so every time I walk and
say to you, I'm just gonna hug this audience with
my presence and like it's something I don't even know
how to describe it. And it feels very black to
me because me and I used to tour it a
lot with the Aboriginal All Stars and we'd all kind
(31:40):
of talk about it, like expanding your energy to fit
the whole room right like, and it's so tiring.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And I always like.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit,
and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes,
you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you
should be exhausted, because it's like you've got to actively
feel you feeling every single corner of that.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Ye. Do you feel the same about acting? So you've
been in CLASSO seven. You did Loves in the Air
on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of
a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's
so different to what I ever expected.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
It's teamwork. Like, have you been on a set?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no.
First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah,
and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like,
you film things out of order? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like I.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Thought you filmed a chronology.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Everything about it is so everyone who's reliant on each other.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
It feels like community.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being
on a set must feel a lot more like a
workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you.
You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no
choice but to trust the people with yeah, and just
(33:13):
lean into that. If you don't, you just can't do it.
And but that must actually be a lot better I
would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yes, I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's like it's double edged sword, right, Like I think
I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I have like panic disorder.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I really struggle with mental health.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's just something that I have a real problem with
and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole
bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a
character that you can fall into and you kind of
can have elements of you and elements of the character.
Like it's really it's really weird. Although the other side
(33:52):
of it is that I want everyone to feel good
all the time, and sometimes I give way more energy
than I have in me because there are like sixty
people around it all times, and I walk away going.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
What the fuck have I just done?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, I've got.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Nothing in the tank.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, but my management's really good at like I go,
I need time off after acting, you know, I don't know,
I much prefer it, but I don't want it to
sound like I'm shitting on comedy. It's just I know
it was so bad for my mental health.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that
come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do
that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you
(34:43):
audition and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do
you cope with that?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much
as they should. I probably am more interested in auditioning
for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I
don't like that. I need to be more open for
a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually
deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is
something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to
to a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse
(35:15):
to watch the show.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, hetty nice, Yeah, but only to myself.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And
you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just
pick apart the person to get the roles.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I was like, that could have been wow, ruined that character.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Would the people in your life think that you're happy
right now?
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, it might be that I've been in a long time.
I'm not happy.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I think the more happy you get, the more that
you have to realize how I'm happy You've been for a.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Very long time, which is harrowing, you know what I mean.
It's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Probably the most stable I've been for a long time,
which means I'm the most I'm the least happy. I
have a huge capacity for moments of pure joy and wonderment.
I'm aimlessly curious and spontaneous, and in moments I can
be blissfully happy. My big thing that I'm trying to
do at the moment is to stop distracting myself and
(36:14):
leaning into the feeling of boredom too much, because that's
all distraction.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly,
it's such a big challenge, and I know my life
would be better if I was able to do that.
And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I gave all my socials to my management.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh such a good idea.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I mean, I do still go on them only to check.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like
it's just false, it's inauthentic.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I fucking hate it.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, I think what I'm trying to work towards is
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness
because that's who I am, but it's very inconsistent, and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now my happyes aren't as happy.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
But my sad's arena sad, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And I'm moving more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird,
anxious attachments that make me fuck up every relationship that
ever comes my way, and working on my health. I've
lost twenty two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on
falling down, which is the weirdest thing to happen, because
it's really odd to just have your knickers falling down
(37:30):
under your pants. But anyway, I'm working on my health
and my mental health and I don't know if I'm happy,
but I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And when you think about the rest of your life,
is there anything you think about that you're like, I
want that thing in order to be happy, or if
I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I
could be happy.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money.
I probably don't need to be broke. I just have
no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in
front of you, Like, do you know how many random
like poop pens.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I've bought just like things where.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You just like clicking and then I lose them the
next day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know,
I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or
at least managing my money better, would take a huge
amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to
have children. I don't think I can handle children. I
think I decided I didn't want children after I realized
(38:34):
how much I was pushing to have children with a
very bad man, and I thought, oh my god, I'm
incredibly selfish because I would have made that kid's life
awful for the sake of me having a closeness with
another human being. I love nurturing, and I think I
(38:55):
would be a good mum, but I would have done
that to a child just for me to fulfill this
need to.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Be a mum.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
The reality is I haven't got the skills or the ability,
or the time or the mental bandwidth to have a child.
And maybe one day I will, that's the thing. But
I'm also always single, and you know, so yeah, I
don't know. I would love to have kids. I don't
(39:23):
know if it would make me any happier or not.
I play Auntie to a lot of different kids. Yeah,
and better money management.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
You have talked about therapy and what are kind of
some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about
managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
This is my biggest problem.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I am super self aware and I know what the
work is, and I don't really do it. I still
don't know how the fuck to sit with the heart emotion.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
No, I actually.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself
more and more. I think there's a problem with being
too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator and.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
UBERNUTA that sounds like.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I actually think that CBT is something I need to
move away from.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder
if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart,
intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that
your problem isn't that you don't know what you should
be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using.
(40:42):
That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift.
It's like you know what you're meant to think in
order to feel differently, but you're not feeling any different. Yes,
I think that's a different kind of therapy.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently,
Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Oh yeah yeah, body psycho therapy be heard of.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
That something I've apparently something that's meant to be good
for that is schemer therapy.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's like, yeah, I've done that too.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Did that do anything?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking
wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went
to like a childlike state. And remember when I got
mauled by a dog and im I didn't know And
then afterwards I was like, adorable, STEP's been hormatized way
because I was in that, I was in the session
and she was like, and when was the last time
you feeling out of control?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And then I was just like I killed him and
she was like sorry what.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I was like, he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph,
let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That's a great opening to a novel.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And what do you know?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
What I was talking about was that the dog had
to be put down after it attacked me and I
was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god,
I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like,
it's all my fault.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
He's dead, and like I was like, where the fuck
did this leaves?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Like I don't know if it was helpful.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in
like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't
stop crying and grieving for that dog was in fault.
He was abused. You know, it bit me by my face.
I got I was going to have to get like
plastic surgery, and then they said we have to put
(42:19):
them down.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
They didn't need to tell you that that You didn't
need to know that as a child.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
But it's traumatized me like plenty, So yes, so that didn't. No,
I think exercise has been really good for me. Well,
I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm
always in pain in my back, so swimming is really
(42:46):
good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running
training with my brother.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you
mental heality.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, and that's that's what he says too. So we're
I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good.
I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship
by canceling others, terrify others, but then they therapized me.
So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've
(43:16):
got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly
aware and under acting.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So yeah, those are my main tools.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I
recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last
few days because I've been really nervous about the book,
and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of
what expectations I have on myself and which one's a
true and genuine and fair and not fair.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
So yeah, it's that shit.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I don't know how the fuck you get to loving myself,
but right now, forgiving myself or accepting myself is good.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That
was such a moving conversation. That's all We've got time
for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph
Tisdell's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and
I cannot recommend it enough It's a really, really beautiful
(44:21):
story told with her humor and warmth about a girl
in year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities
of high school. We will pop a link to buy
the book in the show notes. This conversation was probably
one of the most vivid depictions that I've heard on
(44:44):
this show about how a person can appear and what
they are actually experiencing. So Steph was so honest about
what was going on in her life behind closed doors
when things looked really, really joyous from the outside. And
I think that honesty is such a gift. And there
(45:09):
were so many parts of this chat that really struck
a chord with me, and we're incredibly honest. The way
Steph talked about experiencing an abusive relationship, the way she
talked about her confidence being eroded, and how having extreme
empathy and being a really kind person can be capitalized
(45:31):
on by the wrong people, And I think it's really
a gift for her to share that vulnerability with us.
If there's anyone you know who you feel might really
get something out of this episode, please share it with them.
And if you want to recommend any guests for the show,
(45:51):
you can always get in touch with me on Instagram.
And if you like the show, please leave us a review.
It helps people to find us and to listen to
more of these really insightful conversations. The executive producer of
That Are You Happy is Naima Brown and the producer
is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik And I'm
(46:13):
your host, Claire Stevens, and we'll see you next week
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mama Ma I
acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness,
because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now my happy's aren't as happy, but my
sad's Arena's sad.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy? This is
the podcast that ask the questions you've always wanted to
know from the people who appear to have it all.
I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall is somebody
you might know from her viral stand up comedy. You
might also know her from her roles on TV shows
(01:07):
like Total Control and Bump, or from movies like Class
of Seven and Lovers in the Air, or for her
writing for TV on the award winning comedy fisk on
Bump and her debut young adult book The Skin I'm In.
She had me laughing before and after this conversation. She's
(01:31):
exceptionally warm, but it's also one of the most emotionally
raw conversations I've had on this show and it really
really stuck with me. She was a rising star in
comedy and on stage she was being applauded by sold
out audiences. She was a golden girl of Australian comedy,
(01:55):
and then behind the scenes she was living a very
different life where she was in an abusive relationship with
someone who isolated her and financially abused her and knew
exactly how to pinpoint her vulnerabilities to hurt her. And
she is incredibly insightful about how certain types of people
(02:22):
can capitalize on your kindness and empathy. I asked her
about the tension as a First Nations woman of creating
comedy for two different audiences, one which is her own
community and one which is the rest of Australia. We
talk about some pretty heavy topics in this conversation, so
(02:45):
I'm going to pop some links in the show notes
for anyone who needs support. We start our conversation where
I like to start all the conversations on this show,
by asking if Steph had a happy childhood. I want
to start with how you grew up and whether you
(03:05):
grew up in a happy family, because this podcast is
all about happiness and I wonder how the way your
life started kind of informed your approach to happiness.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously,
I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew
up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but
(03:37):
maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected
at all, It's just I was the youngest of four kids,
and my parents were really, really, really busy to make
sure they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't
really even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood,
but I also recognize that there are some mental.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Health issues that I have probably as a result.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But I think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever
want to make it seem anything other than privileged.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What
do you kind of remember was the thing that made
you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and
I think it was a lot of pressure. I think
I'm very different from the rest of my family in
that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm
the only girl, and I think there was a lot
of don't be like that. I think that was the
(04:50):
biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents
had a really interesting dynamic. We were just raised to
be the best children and put everybody else first, And
as a result, I've been in a lot of very
damaging relationship I think with friends, with you know, partners,
(05:14):
because I wanted to see the best and am used
to taking that role of I will nurture, nurture, nurture,
and my feelings don't matter.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And so do you think you leaving that environment in
relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people?
Like do you think you're putting that on to other
people or do you think that you're just used to
not prioritizing yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I think I have that stereotypical I want to fix everyone.
It's been really hard to kind of unloan that because
I'm not a dumb person. And you go, you kind
of go, yeah, But the reason I'm making these decisions
is because I have the capacity and I know that
I have the capacity and the insight and the softness
(06:06):
to allow people to be a little broken something. So
you go, no, no, no, it's fine, It's different. I need
to love somebody unconditionally because they haven't been shown that before.
But the problem is that actually there is such thing
as people just being wankers?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And yeah, I make too many excuses for people, and
then wonder how the fuck I ended up where I
ended up.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Did you grow up with any because just from what
I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up
with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea,
that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background
that I find it hard to differentiate between the two.
That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant
to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is
(06:56):
see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't
have your best interest in it. And I have no
idea how those two things co exist.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't grow up
with religion. I just I think I grew up with
a lot of different perspectives and this kind of attitude
that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
We were always kind.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Of encouraged to delve deep and figure out why somebody
would do something which you know, in hindsight or with therapy,
I recognized was I wasn't allowed to have a feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
But at the.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Time it kind of makes you feel smart, right as
a kid to be like, oh, that's all right, they
were just feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging
people in my life as a result of going because
I know where it's coming from, or because I feel
I know better, I have to forgive this and cop this.
(07:55):
And you know, I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's
worth talking to is you know? Yeah, And one of
the things that my therapist is trying to teach me
it's like, you're allowed to set boundaries and I go, oh, yeah,
but you've got to let somebody you know, Like yeah,
so I really didn't expect childhood stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
This was a real shock to me. Like I've sorry, no, no, no,
it's fine. No, it's because I didn't want to be prepared.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But as somebody who's very openly vulnerable, I feel like
that's maybe the one area that I'm not.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So it's like, interesting, I've gone real serious.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods,
it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you
might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health.
You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for
prioritizing your own happiness. Yeah, you've just released your first
(08:49):
novel or the skin I'm in, and before the book begins,
you have a page that reads, this book was written
on the back of the hardest years of my life
to date, an escape and catharsis to unpack some of
the demons that come with struggling with identity and finding
your place in the world. Can you explain that?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like,
I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four
years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very
abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing
it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying.
(09:34):
I was so burnt out, I was so busy, and
then I was just being harassed and threatened and my
livelihood was being threatened and I had to was just
before I started filming Total Control, which was like my
big sort of breakout thing, and I had to call
up the producers and say I need to come down
(09:56):
to Sydney. Early because I might get murdered. And I
go on to set I've never really done before, and
people are touching your face, you know, the whole time,
and you're so surrounded by people, and it was like great.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It was the biggest break for me.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
But I would come back to my hotel and just
see emails upon emails upon emails and have to go
to the police and be like, Okay, he's breached the
DVO and just the emotional turmoil of everything, and you
know that it's going to happen, and then you think
it won't, but you can't figure out why you keep
(10:34):
on staying and then when you finally go, you go, oh,
it's worse than I thought.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean, it's really hard to talk about because I
always feel like I'm lucky because he didn't hit me.
But the more that I listen and learn, I go,
this was fucking exactly what coercive control is. And I
had no idea who I was at the end of it,
and I didn't have a second to stop and think
(10:59):
about who I was, and so I was isolated and
I was sort of stepping into this new world and
it's like you both want to talk about it and
not talk about it and laugh about it and not
laugh about it. And yeah, and while that was happening,
some I guess difficult stuff happened in my career, and
(11:19):
even like, I don't think it would have been a
problem at all had I not already been going through that.
But when you do what you love and you are
doing it because you have a goal in mind, nobody
tells you how weird it feels when people know who
you are and how much because I'm a really authentic person,
(11:41):
and how hard it is to know how much to
give and how how much you may.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Open yourself up to shit. Yeah, it was a really
hard time.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And then at the end of it, I ended up
doing another show with all of these queer women and
they're like, I'm pretty sure your queer stuff and I
was like, no, I'm not, and that I went, oh, no,
I probably am. Yeah, So like it was weird, like
it just one year I dated man and the next
year dated women and it was you know that it
was a hard time and it was like a re
teenagehood and I had to like of go, fucking hell,
(12:12):
how much did I hate myself to let this person
treat me like this for so long without ever honestly
believing I deserved better than that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Do you think it was a process of things starting
really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control,
and then getting to the point like when you say
somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching dbos. Was it so
(12:47):
small that it was almost just like it starts and
then by the time it gets to that, it's been
so gradual that you think it's normal.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
No, I think that's probably the case for a lot
of people. When I look back, I go, what the
fuck did I do? It was so obvious so soon.
It really fucked me up because I recognized that I
don't think I cared what I thought about who I did,
and I just wanted to be loved, and the male
gaze was so important to me, and I just wanted intimacy.
(13:18):
I wanted children, so I really wanted to have kids
with him, which I'm so fucking glad that I didn't,
but like, I just wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Honestly, I look back and I go, I do not
know how I.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Ever thought that that was acceptable, even the first time
that I told him that I loved him, was oh,
it makes me sick thinking back, like, it makes me
really sad for the version of me that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Would have accepted that.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I just thought he was so beautiful, you know. And
I said to him because I just saw a sadness
in his eyes that I recognized, I think, And I
was like, you're so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
What are you doing with me? You could have anyone?
And he's like, oh, no, you know. I was like, no,
I look at you, and.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He goes, okay, So look, yeah, if we asked ten
people on the street if they found you attractive, maybe one,
maybe two would say yes, and then the majority wouldn't.
But at least I think you're beautiful. And I was like,
I love you. That was my first time that I
told him I loved him, because I just I need
that so badly. I mean, by the end of it,
(14:27):
a lot of isolation. But I was also paying our
rent and our bills, paying him a wage. He just
had his finger in every pie, you know. And my
friends always laughed me like, Steph, I don't even think
he likes you.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I don't know that he just he hates you, Like
this is a man who does not like you.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But I was just scared to leave him because because
I knew that he was wrong, And it was like,
did I actually stay because my own ego and pride?
And it's like, yeah, when somebody takes away everything else,
you'll stay just to go. He'll realize soon that that's
not This isn't okay. It's really odd.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
What I find really interesting is even you talk me
about your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I
almost think profound empathy can be a curse because you
talk about that sadness that you saw in his eyes,
and I'm sure it was there. And when you can
look at anyone and see their pain and see who
(15:29):
they are, it's then really hard to look at them
and say objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you
do gymnastics to work out their motivation. No, actually they're
right because I did this. And it's this weird thing
where empathy has to stop somewhere. It's weird.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the
with therapy afterwards toos, it's like, yeah, but if you
can understand where somebody's coming from, or like if you
know that they don't see what they're doing, because they
have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got a
gift you can offer them, and it say no, no, no, no,
they don't.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Want to change.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And also the thing that I think I really struggled
with was some people are sociopathic. Like of course, like
I was earning good money by the time that I
left him. I don't know anymore, but I was for
a time. Because acting is much harder than comedy. You
wouldn't have thought that, out of the two, comedy was
(16:26):
the money maker.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But anyway, but like I.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Think he saw in me an ambitious but insecure woman,
you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah, I think I
was right for the picking, you know. And I think, though,
what is difficult. I had a therapy session last week
where my therapist said I was saying to her that
(16:50):
somebody that I was talking to set a boundary and
they weren't mad at me. And I was like, why
why aren't they mad at me? She's like, because just
letting you know that's a boundary. And I was like,
but I've obviously done something wrong. She's like, no, that's
not And I said, now I need to know what
that I can't settle, And they must be hiding something
from me. And she said, feel more comfortable with anger,
(17:13):
and I said, because I know how to react to
anger in a way that makes me feel softer or
reinforces my own sense of self, which is soft, kind, whatever,
And what a fucked thing.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And it's hard to know when somebody said a boundary
with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're
not angry with you because they've set the boundary. Yes,
it's like, no, this is actually a really safe relation.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah,
one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do
I need to fit like?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And that Yeah, my therapist was like, do you feel
better being in fix it mode? And I was like,
fucking don't.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Do this today.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
But it's true, like there's a level of.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Control if you're somebody who you know, like the part
of me that I identify with outwardly, or the one
thing that I want people to know about me above
anything else, you know, like the biggest compliment that you
could give me is that I'm kind, Do you know
what I mean? I want to be kind because that's
all I've ever wanted to be. And so it's like
(18:11):
if I don't feel like I'm being the kindest person
in the whole world or in the room or whatever
it is, that that can erode at such a weird thing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and
think you're.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
A sociopath one hundred.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
But you have to because those people exist. They just do.
And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the
world if they weren't sociopaths.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
They're just.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
H and it's it's so hard, hey, And but like
my dad is the world's kindest man, like to his detriment, right,
And one time we went out for dinner and like,
this was like the last big fight that I have
with my dad. We don't fight, we're really close, but
we had a big fight because we went to dinner
and I, for some unknown reasons, I don't even eat fish,
but I ordered fish and chips and they brought out
(18:54):
the wrong thing. They brought out like a steamed fish,
and I was like, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Not, I'm not going to be eating yeah, and then.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff, I'll
eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even allowed
to eat fish. He's like allergic to fish, and I
was like, like, no, I could just ask for that
isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take
it back? And we had a fight because he got
up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask
for the other thing.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yes, we're actually allowed, actually allowed, and it's okay, and
no one's going to cry and no one's going to
hate us.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But man, there was a big fight at the table
that line, and he was very unhappy that I didn't
eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
You know that you didn't order us Exactly exactly after
the break, Steph and I talk about the joke that
made her quit comedy. I have a theory that the
world lies to us a bit about happiness and that
(19:59):
often the moments that externally look the happiest internally or not.
And to me, it sounds like you had that experience
coming up in where on the outside you were seriously
Australia's Findings comedian. Everybody was just obsessed and you were
(20:21):
so confident and so charismatic, and you're on stage and
you're doing TV and looks like things couldn't go better,
and then behind the scenes you're going through something so hard.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the
whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his
end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the
hardest time in my life, and you become this needy, desperate,
like childlike version of yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I feel really emotional when you leave because you.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Like have to restore all of your old relationships. And yeah,
it was kind of new that I was in a
position where I was doing so well, so all of
my even people quite close to me, like, oh my god,
look at you blow them up, you know, and you
just go. I literally I feel ungrateful to talk about
(21:14):
how fucking hard this is. And the better that my
career was going, the more I felt that I deserved
what was happening, because do you know what I'm saying,
I didn't want to feel like, oh on now, I
think I'm better than that. This is what I am.
But at the end of the day, I also think
that like the way that we sort of portray success
(21:38):
publicly on screen or whatever, including on social media, is
so fucked because there's only two things that make somebody successful.
I think it's hard work and emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That's it. Like anybody can do it, do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, and you can't. Interestingly, there are two things you
can't see in a photo or a video or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
You also can't teach them.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I am always surprised by people.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That I meet that I look up to, and I go, oh,
it's not these things that I have in my head
of like odds because they're beautiful. It's because of oh
they grew up here or they had this privilege.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's like people who know how to make everyone feel
safe in the space. Well women, I don't know, there's
a lot of fuck Menah.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
But who you mean? You go, how the hell did
you get there? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
But like a lot of the women that I've met,
I go, oh, you know how to make people feel.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love that. That's actually really profound. And the hard
work and emotional intelligence, the hard work element I completely
agree with and have thought that you look at anybody,
and as somebody who can be quite cynical, I can
look at people and be like, oh, yeah, you're there
because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there
because of even like you can dismiss things in so
(22:55):
many different ways about why people have what they have,
whenever you get close to it, you see, oh you
actually do I have anything without hard work. It's very
hard to stumble up with without any hard work. And
then emotional intelligence. That's very, very very true. Yeah, that's
something you notice.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met
This is such a weird person to bring up because
it's not the most famous person that I've met.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
She's just had this like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
She was on my TV when I was a teenager,
you know, Caitlin Stacy.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I was like, what's she gonna be like?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And she's fucking the smartest person I've ever met, like
and hard working.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And that was kind of after you were doing comedy
doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting?
And why did you quit comedy?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Because comedy was going to put me in the grave.
It's the hardest thing.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
It's the hardest because this is this is how I
always explain it. It's the most vulnerable thing you'll ever
do in the least intimate setting. I tell secrets on
stage that I haven't told my closest friends, you know.
And it's also incredibly lonely. I never fit in with
other comedians, mostly because they're just a.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Lot cooler than me. Like I'm not a cool person.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I'd have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm
shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like
I don't know how to banter. I want a D
and M and I want to have an emotional yarn
and I also I was having a different experience to
the people that I was performing with, Like I went
on tour, for example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival
road show and it used to drive me nuts because
(24:44):
I was always performing with straight white men. But we
get to somewhere and when you're a person of color,
I don't care who you are. There is a sixth
sense that you have. It doesn't matter how how much
you can get by, doesn't matter where you come from.
You have a sixth sense that lets you know when
you're not being perceived the way that other people are
(25:06):
being perceived. And the amount of times that I stepped
onto a stage, I always open with I'm a proud
Aboriginal woman, and I see eye rolls, and I see people, oh,
here we go, and you see this kind of thing,
and you have to stand there with the biggest smile
on and advocate, knowing that there are people who already
(25:30):
don't want to laugh, think that you're the diversity token Act.
And then you've also got this kind of extra scanning
that comes from within your own community as well, because
we're so afraid of having our image and reputation tainted
and tarnished because it's never been under our control, that
(25:51):
there is this sort of policing or gate keeping that happens,
and it happens in a lot of marginalized groups, and
I understand it. But the amount of work and thought
that went into every single word that I said on
stage felt like I was doing a different task to
my piece.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oh one hundred. They literally would get up, And I'm
sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political
correctness at the door. Be as cutting edge and wild
as I possibly can. But when you have an extra
sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's
enough being a bloody woman, and then you're an Indigenous
(26:29):
woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of
representing your community in a way that they are happy with.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this
conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and
shame about it.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
As I'm getting older, I'm going No.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I still and even when I felt guilt or shame
for it, I still stand by. I kind of got
asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is
it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I
was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach
to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because
I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that.
The problem is that if you steer indigenous material towards
(27:10):
white people, you begin to exclude your own people, and
that is a very shameful and difficult process to handle,
where you go, oh, fuck, I haven't even performed for
black fellows, and that long, I don't even know if
this is funny anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
To my own people.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, but I think as well though, because comedy was
never about I don't know, being famous or whatever. It
was about sharing love and sending a message. Then again,
it felt like I was just playing a different game
to other people, And so my level of fear and
nerves and anxiety before and after a gig felt like
(27:46):
I was being too much again or too emotional or whatever,
like there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm
not saying that there aren't. I just didn't feel like
it was supportive enough for something.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It wasn't wasn't your people.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
No, no, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment
going like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing
this joke and whatever, and then you go on theres
a funny punchline.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You go, no, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Need to know whether you understand that I you know,
kind of I've built all of this behind it to
make sure that this says all of this, and most
people won't see all of this, but one person, you know,
and it's kind of like okay. And it was always
late nights, early flights, alone all the time, and you
get so weird when you're alone but surrounded by people,
(28:31):
like you know, you get up on stage absolutely exhausted.
You just give everything, and then you step off stage
and people are like, stay being funny.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
That was all I had, Man, like that was all
I had, Like, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough
fit coming off stage and then people being like you
still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted,
I need to go to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic.
I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours
about shit, and I like, and I think, I'm so
glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, And I
hate saying it, but that's the fucking truth, man. And
I think that this is very specific to comedians as well.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, yeah, But do you know what is so funny
is that I think probably the thing that pushed me
over the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that
happened with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I
have to call up a venue and be like, if
you see this person, you have to call the police, like,
which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do,
(29:42):
but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger
and they go, so where is he, and I'm like,
he's got a DVO.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I was institutionalized I was gonna ask when you're talking
about your ex, I'm like, there's a lot of jokes
you made about a certain person, and I was going
to say, is that here, Yeah, yeah, because all those
they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes, and they were
asking something pretty fucked up.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah, I
didn't feel like that.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
But also like the was a bit of my existence
was after the fact, he was like, well, I.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Made you, Oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to.
And he was like trying to go through courts and everything,
and I'm like and he's like, you only got a
DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold
your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you
won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
That's not how Wow, that's not how art works. You're
not entitled to my staff because it happened to me
in my life. Wow. But it really is that contrast
between you on stage looking so happy, relaxed, at peace
at home, and clearly there was a lot going on
(30:54):
around that, but.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I did feel happy in those moments because I was
away from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful
feeling than being on stage because it's love. That's why
I think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when
I was doing more TV comedy then live comedy. I've
got some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crabineri, who
(31:18):
is my mentor who's changed my life, and he always
says to me, the one thing that you need to
know to be successful is if you love your audience,
they'll love you. And so every time I walk and
say to you, I'm just gonna hug this audience with
my presence and like it's something I don't even know
how to describe it. And it feels very black to
me because me and I used to tour it a
lot with the Aboriginal All Stars and we'd all kind
(31:40):
of talk about it, like expanding your energy to fit
the whole room right like, and it's so tiring.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And I always like.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit,
and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes,
you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you
should be exhausted, because it's like you've got to actively
feel you feeling every single corner of that.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Ye. Do you feel the same about acting? So you've
been in CLASSO seven. You did Loves in the Air
on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of
a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's
so different to what I ever expected.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
It's teamwork. Like, have you been on a set?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no.
First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah,
and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like,
you film things out of order? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like I.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Thought you filmed a chronology.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Everything about it is so everyone who's reliant on each other.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
It feels like community.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being
on a set must feel a lot more like a
workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you.
You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no
choice but to trust the people with yeah, and just
(33:13):
lean into that. If you don't, you just can't do it.
And but that must actually be a lot better I
would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yes, I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's like it's double edged sword, right, Like I think
I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I have like panic disorder.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I really struggle with mental health.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's just something that I have a real problem with
and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole
bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a
character that you can fall into and you kind of
can have elements of you and elements of the character.
Like it's really it's really weird. Although the other side
(33:52):
of it is that I want everyone to feel good
all the time, and sometimes I give way more energy
than I have in me because there are like sixty
people around it all times, and I walk away going.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
What the fuck have I just done?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, I've got.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Nothing in the tank.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, but my management's really good at like I go,
I need time off after acting, you know, I don't know,
I much prefer it, but I don't want it to
sound like I'm shitting on comedy. It's just I know
it was so bad for my mental health.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that
come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do
that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you
(34:43):
audition and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do
you cope with that?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much
as they should. I probably am more interested in auditioning
for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I
don't like that. I need to be more open for
a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually
deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is
something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to
to a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse
(35:15):
to watch the show.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, hetty nice, Yeah, but only to myself.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And
you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just
pick apart the person to get the roles.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I was like, that could have been wow, ruined that character.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Would the people in your life think that you're happy
right now?
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, it might be that I've been in a long time.
I'm not happy.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I think the more happy you get, the more that
you have to realize how I'm happy You've been for a.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Very long time, which is harrowing, you know what I mean.
It's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Probably the most stable I've been for a long time,
which means I'm the most I'm the least happy. I
have a huge capacity for moments of pure joy and wonderment.
I'm aimlessly curious and spontaneous, and in moments I can
be blissfully happy. My big thing that I'm trying to
do at the moment is to stop distracting myself and
(36:14):
leaning into the feeling of boredom too much, because that's
all distraction.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly,
it's such a big challenge, and I know my life
would be better if I was able to do that.
And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I gave all my socials to my management.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh such a good idea.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I mean, I do still go on them only to check.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like
it's just false, it's inauthentic.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I fucking hate it.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, I think what I'm trying to work towards is
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness
because that's who I am, but it's very inconsistent, and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now my happyes aren't as happy.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
But my sad's arena sad, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And I'm moving more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird,
anxious attachments that make me fuck up every relationship that
ever comes my way, and working on my health. I've
lost twenty two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on
falling down, which is the weirdest thing to happen, because
it's really odd to just have your knickers falling down
(37:30):
under your pants. But anyway, I'm working on my health
and my mental health and I don't know if I'm happy,
but I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And when you think about the rest of your life,
is there anything you think about that you're like, I
want that thing in order to be happy, or if
I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I
could be happy.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money.
I probably don't need to be broke. I just have
no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in
front of you, Like, do you know how many random
like poop pens.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I've bought just like things where.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You just like clicking and then I lose them the
next day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know,
I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or
at least managing my money better, would take a huge
amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to
have children. I don't think I can handle children. I
think I decided I didn't want children after I realized
(38:34):
how much I was pushing to have children with a
very bad man, and I thought, oh my god, I'm
incredibly selfish because I would have made that kid's life
awful for the sake of me having a closeness with
another human being. I love nurturing, and I think I
(38:55):
would be a good mum, but I would have done
that to a child just for me to fulfill this
need to.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Be a mum.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
The reality is I haven't got the skills or the ability,
or the time or the mental bandwidth to have a child.
And maybe one day I will, that's the thing. But
I'm also always single, and you know, so yeah, I
don't know. I would love to have kids. I don't
(39:23):
know if it would make me any happier or not.
I play Auntie to a lot of different kids. Yeah,
and better money management.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
You have talked about therapy and what are kind of
some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about
managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
This is my biggest problem.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I am super self aware and I know what the
work is, and I don't really do it. I still
don't know how the fuck to sit with the heart emotion.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
No, I actually.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself
more and more. I think there's a problem with being
too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator and.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
UBERNUTA that sounds like.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I actually think that CBT is something I need to
move away from.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder
if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart,
intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that
your problem isn't that you don't know what you should
be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using.
(40:42):
That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift.
It's like you know what you're meant to think in
order to feel differently, but you're not feeling any different. Yes,
I think that's a different kind of therapy.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently,
Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Oh yeah yeah, body psycho therapy be heard of.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
That something I've apparently something that's meant to be good
for that is schemer therapy.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's like, yeah, I've done that too.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Did that do anything?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking
wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went
to like a childlike state. And remember when I got
mauled by a dog and im I didn't know And
then afterwards I was like, adorable, STEP's been hormatized way
because I was in that, I was in the session
and she was like, and when was the last time
you feeling out of control?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And then I was just like I killed him and
she was like sorry what.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I was like, he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph,
let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That's a great opening to a novel.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And what do you know?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
What I was talking about was that the dog had
to be put down after it attacked me and I
was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god,
I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like,
it's all my fault.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
He's dead, and like I was like, where the fuck
did this leaves?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Like I don't know if it was helpful.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in
like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't
stop crying and grieving for that dog was in fault.
He was abused. You know, it bit me by my face.
I got I was going to have to get like
plastic surgery, and then they said we have to put
(42:19):
them down.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
They didn't need to tell you that that You didn't
need to know that as a child.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
But it's traumatized me like plenty, So yes, so that didn't. No,
I think exercise has been really good for me. Well,
I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm
always in pain in my back, so swimming is really
(42:46):
good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running
training with my brother.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you
mental heality.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, and that's that's what he says too. So we're
I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good.
I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship
by canceling others, terrify others, but then they therapized me.
So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've
(43:16):
got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly
aware and under acting.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So yeah, those are my main tools.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I
recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last
few days because I've been really nervous about the book,
and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of
what expectations I have on myself and which one's a
true and genuine and fair and not fair.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
So yeah, it's that shit.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I don't know how the fuck you get to loving myself,
but right now, forgiving myself or accepting myself is good.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That
was such a moving conversation. That's all We've got time
for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph
Tisdell's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and
I cannot recommend it enough It's a really, really beautiful
(44:21):
story told with her humor and warmth about a girl
in year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities
of high school. We will pop a link to buy
the book in the show notes. This conversation was probably
one of the most vivid depictions that I've heard on
(44:44):
this show about how a person can appear and what
they are actually experiencing. So Steph was so honest about
what was going on in her life behind closed doors
when things looked really, really joyous from the outside. And
I think that honesty is such a gift. And there
(45:09):
were so many parts of this chat that really struck
a chord with me, and we're incredibly honest. The way
Steph talked about experiencing an abusive relationship, the way she
talked about her confidence being eroded, and how having extreme
empathy and being a really kind person can be capitalized
(45:31):
on by the wrong people, And I think it's really
a gift for her to share that vulnerability with us.
If there's anyone you know who you feel might really
get something out of this episode, please share it with them.
And if you want to recommend any guests for the show,
(45:51):
you can always get in touch with me on Instagram.
And if you like the show, please leave us a review.
It helps people to find us and to listen to
more of these really insightful conversations. The executive producer of
That Are You Happy is Naima Brown and the producer
is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik And I'm
(46:13):
your host, Claire Stevens, and we'll see you next week
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