December 19, 2024 • 29 mins
Licensed therapist Jessica Turner returns to the Four Bars podcast to share her expert insights on the complexities of family dynamics during the holidays. Discover the keys to mastering the often-challenging art of setting boundaries and maintaining communication with loved ones. We promise that by the end of this episode, you'll have a toolkit full of strategies for creating a supportive environment, whether with your biological family or your chosen one. Jessica also opens up about her transition from working with children to focusing on adult therapy, providing a unique perspective on how understanding human development can shape our interactions.
In our conversation, we put the spotlight on the importance of self-awareness and the role of storytelling in healing and relationship-building. Nostalgia emerges as a powerful ally in bridging divides and fostering genuine connections. As we navigate these themes, we also discuss the need to hold firm yet realistic personal boundaries without over-explaining or assuming negative intent. Jessica’s expertise helps us recognize when to step back or gently remind others of agreed-upon limits, ensuring a peaceful and rewarding holiday season for everyone involved. Join us and transform your approach to holiday gatherings into a more mindful and joyous experience.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the 4.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Bars podcast.
I'm Ken Leith and I'm PattiLeith.
We're your hosts for somecompelling dialogue, encouraging
our listeners to strengthentheir connections and build
strong communities, lifting eachother up and connecting in ways
that matter.
We named the podcast 4 Bars asa reference to how hard we work
to find a 4 Bars connection onour devices.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships
if we worked as hard atconnecting.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's find out.
Welcome back to Four Bars.
We're excited to be here againwith Jessica Turner.
I'm Patti Leith, your co-host.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Ken Leith.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Jess is a licensed therapist.
She spoke to us in our lastepisode.
We're really spending some timegetting ready for the holidays,
so welcome Thanks for beingback.
Thank you for having me gettingready for the holidays, so
welcome, thanks for being back.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, tell us a little bitabout what you decide.
You know what made you decideto pursue becoming a licensed
therapist?
(00:53):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I think most therapists get into the field
because for similar reasons, foryou know, we want to help
people and in a lot ofsituations I think we want to be
that person that maybe weneeded at another point in life.
Or, you know, we had a greatexperience with a therapist.
That was really a pivotalmoment, and so we want to be
that for another person.
So, going into it, I've known Iwanted to do this since I was
(01:14):
in high school.
Weirdly enough, and it's justtaken different twists and turns
.
I used to think I really wantedto work with kids because I
wanted to be there for kids inthe way that you know.
Maybe I needed someone when Iwas a kid.
And so then it's funny becauseI went through grad school,
started working and realized Iactually don't like kids.
So I was like, well, this is,this is interesting, and so I've
(01:37):
pivoted to working with adultsand find that I enjoy that much,
much more, and so, yeah, it's alittle different than what I
thought it was going to looklike, but you know, the why is
still the same.
Just being able to make adifference.
You know, going through gradschool I told myself, if I make
a difference in one person'slife someday, like it's all
worth it.
You know just that.
Very trying to make the world abetter place, yeah that is
(02:00):
awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Great reason yeah, by the way.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I started my graduate career thinking that I wanted
to get into therapy for childrenand going into child psych and
changed it, realizing for a lotof reasons.
I made the shift to go intoorganizational psychology and I
made my career mostly working onorganizational dynamics and
team dynamics over the years buthad a similar you know, pivot
(02:26):
to that, but in doing so learneda lot about human development
and how we become the adultsthat we become.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That's so interesting when you really start getting
into why are humans the way thatthey are?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I've asked myself that many times.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
By the way, I am I always say we're, we're, we're
part.
You know, it's part nature,it's part nurture, and I think
our personalities are made up ofum a lot of experiences that
went well, we do more of that,and if they didn't go as well,
we do less of that.
You know, and if you want tochange something, you kind of
have to unpack why it's thereabsolutely and and identify that
(03:04):
it even is there yeah, a lot oftimes that's the first step.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Is someone will come in and say I know I don't feel
great, okay, but I don't knowwhy yeah, right or I don't know
what is causing me to feel thisway.
Yeah, so a lot of times at thebeginning of therapy we're just
trying to figure out and unpack,like what it is that's causing
the distress because, becausesometimes we don't even know, no
, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Absolutely.
So we're going to pick up fromlast session this time, look
around the holidays again, butexploring a little bit more
about the situations where we'rein and how do we deal with
those situations when we havefamily, friends or not having
(03:47):
those supports and stuff andthose expectations that come
with the holidays.
How do we create an environmentand tools to be able to cope
better during the holidays?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So I think having a good, healthy support system is
really key there, because wecould have all the people around
us in the world, and thatdoesn't necessarily make
anything better if that supportsystem is not a good one for you
.
Right, if you know you arereally close to your family, but
your family brings you a lot ofstress, maybe because of
(04:15):
differences, or, you know, lasttime we talked about trauma,
right, like, maybe this personhas caused me a lot of pain and
we haven't really ever addressedthat, um, and so you can be
spending all this time aroundfamily, but it might not be
doing you any good and might bemaking things a lot worse, and
so it really, I think, startswith having a healthy, positive
community for you, whatever thatmeans.
(04:37):
A lot of times that maybe isn'tthe family that you're born into
we have this concept of achosen family, right, right, and
people that we choose to spendour time with, and usually, if
you're choosing to spend yourtime with that person, they're a
better person for you.
It's because you feel betterwhen you're around them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, I think we, being here in Northwest Arkansas
in a very fast growingcommunity, we've come to know
people through our communitythat we live in, but also in the
greater community of people whocame here who didn't have
family, so they've had todevelop their family to your
point, choosing them right alongthe way.
(05:13):
And I actually came from alarge family, okay, um, but so I
was just used to family, thedynamic of I was born in this
family.
Right when I got here, it'slike, oh, we have to create it,
and so no one is within a lot ofthe close group we are in in
our community is really from theregion, and so that created a
(05:36):
commonality, I think, to help usto first click and connect
together.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Absolutely.
I mean, one of the centralthemes I talk about with all of
my clients is the sense of likehaving a solid support system.
Obviously, if you're in therapy, you're navigating difficult
things in life and you needpeople in your corner to help
you do.
That is great, because thisarea is full of people who are
looking to meet people.
Yes, right, there's alwayssomebody here that's new, that
(06:08):
is trying to make a friend, andso, even if you're local, you
don't know all the people here,because there's new people every
day, which is really cool, andit's a really great opportunity
to find that sense of communityin a way that's going to be
healthy for you.
That's very good.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So, as we enter the holiday season, we're all going
to be around the table with ourcommunities, whether that is our
immediate family or our chosenfamily or a community that we're
not yet that ingrained in andthere will be differences of
opinions.
Especially now, post-election,there's a lot of differences of
opinions.
What are some techniques andstrategies that people can use
(06:47):
to navigate that?
Sure, yeah, I have a friend whorecently had a wedding and she
was worried that that might comeup, so she set the guidelines
in advance for everyone.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And that is a big part of it.
Boundaries, boundaries,boundaries yes, that is one of
the most common words that comesout of my mouth with clients
and just with my friends,because boundaries this is
something every year on theholidays that comes up with
clients when we're talking aboutthe stress of going home.
It's typically with ourfamilies that people are finding
(07:21):
, because often, with yourchosen family, you're spending
time with them because you havethe commonality and so you maybe
won't have to navigate thosedifferences in the same way.
But, um, political differencesover the last couple years has
been a real big area ofdiscussion, and so what we talk
about is setting boundaries,setting up expectations before
you even go spend time with yourfamily.
(07:44):
Um, you know, shooting it astexts in the family group chat
or calling your whoever andsaying I need there to not be
any talk about politics, right?
Um, I don't want us to to argueover the thanksgiving table.
We don't align here, we don'tneed to talk about it and then
asking that person like, are youokay with this?
And you're not asking reallyfor them, you're asking for you
(08:07):
because if they say no, well,then you can establish a new
game plan.
Maybe that means you don't goright.
If they're not willing torespect that boundary, it that's
a good indicator that you knowit's not going to be a good time
for you.
Um, and a lot of times peopleare like, yeah, let's do that
because they don't want iteither.
Right, yeah, and so that'sreally.
I think the biggest thing issetting up the expectation
(08:29):
before the event itself comes,and then, if you know, the
conversation starts to trend inthat direction, saying, hey guys
, remember, we're not talkingabout this South London.
Yeah, right, right, we allagree.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, reminding right , we all agree, yeah, reminding,
yeah, yeah, the correlationthere of what we do for a living
is a bit, uh, very connected asso, as you have to have your
plan, your strategy, yeah, whatthat is.
I have a game plan, uh, andthen you need to set the ground
rules with respect to that, sothat then you can execute upon
what should be a really goodexperience for everyone, right,
(09:02):
right?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
we're here to eat turkey and you, you know, enjoy
each other.
Let's make it about that.
Yeah, and that's another thingI talk about with people is, you
know, whenever you're goinginto what you feel might be a
difficult conversation, settingyour goal and your your hope for
the conversation at thebeginning, right?
So saying, you know, my hope isthat we can have thanksgiving
(09:24):
and enjoy and like, just spendtime together right, without
this conflict and asking do youalso want that?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
right.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Presumably yes and so then you can say, okay, here's
how we make that happen.
Yeah, and that way, if theconversation starts to go
sideways, you can say remember,this is what we're hoping to get
out of this situation, right,yeah, having that as kind of a
baseline you can go back to.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, yeah, sounds good.
What if I get to my event thatI'm going to and it doesn't go
as discussed or as planned?
How do I navigate that?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, sure, and so we talked about having a game plan
for the holidays, and sosometimes that means you go for
a walk to get a break fromthings, and sometimes it's a
matter of hey, remember, we'renot talking about that, we're
trying to keep things civil hereand hopefully just that
reminder of the boundary right,because if we've established a
(10:20):
boundary going in and thatperson has agreed to it, it
should only take a gentlereminder to get back to that
true background roll right.
Yeah, it should doesn't always,and if so that might be.
You know, sometimes we do haveto set an ultimatum of like you
know I've asked for, you knowI've set this boundary, I've
asked for this to happen, and ifwe can't do that, unfortunately
I have to go.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
This is you know, and then sticking to whatever that
ultimatum or that limit was, butif I don't do that in advance,
and because it, because maybe itdidn't come up, sure, the last
time we were all together for aholiday, sure, um, and it, and
it starts to get really heated.
Yeah, what are some of thethings that I can do?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
yeah, hey guys, I really this doesn't seem like a
productive conversation for usto have.
Like, hey, hey guys, I thinkthis is bringing me a lot of
stress, can we not?
Can we not?
That's a perfect, simple way toyou know, I think you know, we
can have some levity in thatright, especially with your
family, you, you should be ableto have that.
(11:18):
And so just like, hey, let'snot right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Without, without heated emotion, right, like I
cannot do this, right, butabsolutely that might be what
your inside voice is saying, butbut inside.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, it's like panic , red alert, red alert, but
let's not.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, like hey guys, let's not do this when yeah,
when you're doing that red alertI'm going back to, we recently
saw inside out too.
So, yeah, with the anxietiesand anger and all these things,
they're, they're, they're realright with respect to that.
I mean, they did a fantasticjob in both the uh movies.
I'm really exploring, yeah, andour personality and how we're
(11:54):
wired made made up of differentthings- absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
We're a big fan of the inside out movies in my
field.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes, I bet you are it's so incredibly accurate and
it was, you know, and it alsothis one really got into some of
the.
The way that these emotionsbegin to introduce themselves as
we're teenagers and I know alot of how we decide to be
adults has to do with how weprocess that Right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
They get a little more complex, they do.
It's not just the happy, thesad, the mad.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
When our ability to recognize and control gets more.
More, I want to say mature, butyou know it gets more
experienced, right when we.
So we have more in our disposal.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yes, as it gets more complicated and we're hopefully
a little more self-aware yeah,be able to do that, yeah, yeah
hopefully, hopefully I can mighthave as a child.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It might take me a little bit longer to get there,
but that's okay, you're therenow.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
During the pandemic, we we offered a series of
conversations on how to navigatedifferences and we called it
shock talks and it stood forstop hatred, offer caring and
kindness yeah and um and we hada lot of feedback from
participants in shock talks thatthat when they got into a um
(13:06):
discussion about differences,there was an ability to keep it
less emotional and um and andreally inquire about, about a
point of view, as opposed tojust shutting it down.
Do you recommend that?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
situation dependent.
And yeah, okay, because I thinksomething I always say is like
you're the expert on you right,so you know what your limits are
yes um, you're also probably apretty good you've, you've got a
pretty solid root on yourfamily or whoever it is you're
spending that time with, and sowe have to be able to be very
honest with ourselves and say amI capable of doing this?
(13:42):
And are you know, is this groupof people capable of doing this
?
Because sometimes they are,sometimes they're not, and so so
I would say yeah, I wouldanswer that, depending on if the
, if the, the rest of the groupis going to be receptive to that
.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know, sometimes it's, it's a powerful way to
connect absolutely, um, and sowhat are, what are, some of the
(14:16):
fundamentals of storytelling ina in a holiday situation?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
um, that's a good question.
I think there is certainly, youknow, I think, for on the
holidays, sometimes that'sreally the only time you're
seeing that group of people allin that, you know, in one space,
in that setting, and so a lotof times you're catching up, yes
, um, and so that's really theonly time you're seeing that
group of people in that, youknow, in one space, in that
setting, and so a lot of timesyou're catching up, and so
that's always a really goodpivot from you know.
You set that boundary, or youtry to, you know, contain what
(14:45):
could become a dicey situation,and then you pivot back to here.
Let me tell you about X, y, z,right, let me tell you about
this exciting thing at work, orum or that sort of thing, and so
I think really, it's just likesharing things that you find
interesting because other peopleare going to find them
interesting as well, right, andthat establishes some common
ground, and then that can kindof get things back on track and
(15:07):
steer them away from the sort oflandmines that a lot of us are
trying to avoid.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, it's.
It is a good way to kind ofredirect the thinking, because
then people will share theirstories about similar kinds of
things.
Yeah, yeah, so I think it's apowerful tool.
We we really elevated a lot inthe, in the nonprofit work that
we do, to unform bias, becausebias is the story we fill in
(15:33):
when we don't know the storyright.
Um, but storytelling in and ofitself is a really strong
relationship builder, absolutelyhelps us find our common ground
.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
absolutely, I think, asking clarifying questions, you
know, like what do you mean bythat, or can you say more about
that?
Yeah, to really dig deep andreally find that common ground,
because sometimes from thesurface it doesn't feel like
there's much, but we just reallyhave to get underneath.
Right, right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Or I haven't thought about it that way.
Can you shed more light on whatmakes you think that?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Absolutely, that's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah, can you expand onthat?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think the other thing about
storytelling and holidays a lotof times it's nostalgic,
absolutely, and it's nostalgiaand we've come to find at this
point in our lives with havingthis family that we've created
here locally, then ourneighborhood and stuff, is that
you don't necessarily have to bewhere you grew up together to
(16:29):
now have these nostalgic stories, because you're reliving things
forever, whether it's the lastfive years, three years, ten
years, and you start to hear thesame stories.
But we like to have those.
It seems like they're almostlike comfort food or something.
What is it about nostalgia thatwe connect to as human beings?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, that's a great thought.
I think I haven't really everthought about it, but I think
you know, in thinking about it alot of times, you know, when we
think of something that'snostalgic, it's reminding us of
a time when things were happy,right, when things felt good,
because we're generally notgonna keep bringing up things
that weren't so good and so justthe you know, the idea of
(17:08):
something being nostalgic in andof itself.
I think that, like there's alens, or there's an air of
positivity and not and sowanting to revisit those happy
times, right, the good old days,right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, that's an emotion like dessert.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, that's funny.
I haven't thought about it thatway either.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, it is sort of arevisiting of the good old times
, when we started theconversation you said boundaries
, boundaries, boundaries.
Can you speak a little bit tohow we set boundaries as an
individual With others, yeah,kind of with others, and then
(17:45):
inside of our own understanding,where we want those boundaries
to be?
Sure?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
People do not have to understand or agree with your
boundaries in order to respectthem.
And so, being very firmwhenever you are trying to set
boundaries because, if you arewhat I like to call a recovering
people pleaser like myself,it's very hard to set boundaries
sometimes Because we thinkagain, there's this idea that,
oh, this is selfish or Ishouldn't be asking for these
(18:13):
things.
You can ask for whatever youwant.
You may not always get it, butyou can ask for whatever, yes.
And so I think solid strategiesfor setting boundaries are
being very clear, very conciseand not over explaining.
We tend to get into this habitof giving all these reasons for
why we're setting the boundarywe're setting because we think,
oh, that's more evidence for it.
(18:34):
Right, If I have all thesereasons, then it's going to feel
more valid.
But, really what that does is itjust gives an opportunity for
the other person to pick apartall these, all these bullets.
Right, there's more to argueabout versus, if you.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Just this is what I expect, and it's also adds in a
detailed level of complexitythat people may not follow or
check out from Right, right so Iknow I as a person, I like to
think that, you know, Idefinitely have some boundaries,
but I do like to makeexperiences for people Sure, and
(19:12):
I don't typically get stressedout by those experiences.
But what happens if a person isset in their mind, their
boundaries maybe even, but theystruggle with maintaining those
boundaries themselves.
How do they cope with that anddeal with that?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I think we have to assess why they're struggling
right.
Or am I struggling withmaintaining this boundary
because it's not actually areally great boundary for me to
have?
or it's not a realistic boundaryfor me to have, or am I
struggling because other peopleare not respecting that and I'm
not holding them accountable,because then the strategy is
going to be different?
(19:46):
Right, because I think weshould be, you know, ongoing.
We should be assessing is thisstill a good boundary for me to
have, because our needs changeand so sometimes those
boundaries may have to shift,and that's okay.
And a lot of times, when we'reemploying new boundaries with
others especially, you'll getsome pushback or the person you
(20:07):
know innocently forgets and they, you know, do whatever you ask
them not to do, and we have toremind them.
People have a really hard timewith reminding people about
their boundaries because theythink well, I said it already.
Why should I have to tell youagain, yes, you know, sometimes
it it is innocent.
It's just it's a habit that thisperson has formed and they
didn't mean, you know theydidn't knowingly do it
(20:29):
intentionally, and so you'rejust like quick reminder.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah I think that's actually good, because sometimes
I think we think peopleknowingly and do something
intentional and like somewhereabout giving grace and an
understanding intention yeah,that's, that's a huge thing.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I think is, um, not assuming intent, because
typically when we're assumingintent, we're assuming ill
intent.
Yes, most people aren't assuminggood intentions and others all
the time you know, we think, oh,that, um, that person is late
for the meeting, they obviouslydon't care, or they're being
disrespectful, right there's.
You know, our brains don'ttypically go to all the reasons
(21:06):
that may be of why that they'relate right to that meeting, um,
and so we always have to assume,or we always have to operate
assuming, that people are doingthe best that they can, because
naturally, you're going to havemore empathy, more compassion
and also less frustration, right?
Yes, if I think that you aredoing the best that you can do,
even if you're late to themeeting, I know that you're
doing your best, right?
(21:27):
Versus if I'm thinking thatyou're being late on purpose,
I'm gonna have much differentfeelings towards you, and so
it's a part of protecting yourpeace too, by assuming good
intent.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, and most people generallyare doing their best.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, as someone who knows Ken quite well because
we're married, I think Kendoesn't set boundaries because
you have a high degree ofconfidence that most things
don't bother him.
Sure, I'm not similarlyequipped.
I work at my confidence andtherefore have to really keep
myself in situations that, um,that enable me to continue to do
(22:02):
that.
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And that brings up a good point of your boundaries
might look much different fromus, and that's okay.
Yes think you know we we hearabout boundaries, or we hear
someone else talking aboutboundaries, or on tiktok or
wherever you see this therapisttalking about here's boundaries
to set with your family.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That may or may not be good for you, because your
bandwidth is going to bedifferent yeah, yes than mine
yeah, no, I, I like that and youknow, to that point I don't
expect my boundaries or thethings for me to be the same as
other people.
I do know mine are a byproductof kind, of the way I was raised
for the most part, and there'sexperience, like many of us, for
(22:41):
me, to your point too, I think,of people as intent generally.
Is they're going to come withgood intent?
So I can find out otherwise.
Sure, is they're gonna comewith good intent?
Yeah, I can find out otherwise.
True, I also wired that I expectpeople To be different for me.
So when they're similar, I'mjust pleasantly pleased, I'm
sure.
(23:01):
And yeah, and they when theyare different, that's
fascinating.
Yeah, and I don't know ifthat's just a way I was our
coping thing, but it's just,it's the way I look and view
things.
I'm one of the people who wetalk about.
Do you give respect to makepeople, or I Give it?
Now, if someone loses it,though it's really hard to get
about, okay, sure, yeah, that'san area.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, and I think that's interesting because I
think the way that yourframework is is why you're able
to be so easygoing right.
Because I think you areprobably in the minority of
expecting everyone else to bedifferent from you, right?
A lot of people expect otherpeople to operate the way that
we operate, because I'moperating the best way,
(23:44):
obviously yeah to be doing thesame, and then we get frustrated
when they're different.
But it's like the myexpectation of you is my problem
, right?
It's not your problem, that'sreally good, really good.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I like that I want to use it, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I say a lot of times other people's expectations of
you is their problem, so it'sonly on you to manage your own
expectations.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and I am similar to you.
I know because of the work thatI do people are different, but
I am always surprised.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, it's like a do as I say, not as I do, right?
Yeah, I am always surprised.
I know these things, but do Ioperate that way?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
One last area to explore is you mentioned a good
support system and that reallyis probably friendships.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
That you're building Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Can you speak a little bit about best ways to
make friends?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Do what you would do because you want to do it, and
so what I mean by that is, forexample, a big source of my
friend group I met at BlakeStreet, you know, and so I met
them because I was going to thesame workout classes every day
and I'm a cat, so I stay in myback corner every day, I have my
spot and I didn't talk topeople for a while, but
(25:00):
naturally you see the same faces, you're going to start talking
and you already have acommonality, right, you're
focusing on your wellness for,like, if you meet in a workout
class, for example, or, um, youknow, hanging out at a bookshop,
you're gonna find people thatlike to read.
Yeah, it's all.
It's automatically an area ofconnection in an area of
commonality, and that's a reallysolid foundation for building a
(25:23):
friendship with that person.
So just do what you enjoy doingand not putting yourself in
situations that you wouldn'tnormally be in or that you don't
enjoy being in, just becauseyou're trying to meet people
there.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, and because then they're going to want to go
back and do that, and if youdon't enjoy it, right, yeah,
right, absolutely with findingpartners too.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I I hear about you know people saying, well,
where's a good place to meet aguy?
And a lot of times you'll hearlike church or part or wherever.
But if you don't go to churchyou might find a man at church,
but are you guys gonna haveanything in common?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
yeah, right maybe not right?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
or if you don't drink and you're going to bars to
meet people, are you going tohave anything to talk about?
Right, probably not, versusnone.
If that's not what I do and Iso I don't go there to meet
people.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know, I go wherever I want to go, right,
I'm going to meet people thatare interested in the same
things as me I think that's areally good call out, um,
because around the holidaysthere seems to be a heightened
level of loneliness that youhear about, sure, and things of
that nature.
So what do I do during theholidays to help combat that
(26:31):
loneliness?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
sure I think we have to look at, you know, what is
contributing to that.
So one, I think, is kind ofwhat we talked about the
idealistic view of the holidays.
Right, it's supposed to be thistime of togetherness, and so if
you're focused on how muchyou're supposed to be around
other people, you're going tonotice that you're not doing
that to the extent that you'requote supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Right and so just checking in with yourself there.
But I think also, you know,naturally around the holidays
it's colder, we're not outsideas often, so we're going to be
inside or at home more than weare in the summer, when it's
warm and sunshine and we'reoutside.
And so I talked to people, likeI was recently talking to some
friends, about holidays arecoming, seasonal depressions
(27:14):
coming.
Let's start, you know, a newbook club or something that is a
routine thing to look forwardto.
I like trying to create somestructure right, because a lot
of times we we lose the outsideof the kind of gatherings, the,
the planned events, um and sopreemptively, but trying to be
proactive about going in andestablishing some sort of like
(27:37):
community yeah, and making theeffort to do it proactively.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, right absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
This has been fantastic, very educational, and
thank you.
I uh, for those who arewatching the podcast, I'm hoping
that this is very beneficialfor them, especially through the
holiday season, but well beyond, because the things you talked
about are not just for theholidays, they're for every day
of our lives I mean, yeah, Ijust need them a little more
(28:05):
yeah on the holidays, yeah andwe might feel bad for needing
them.
Yeah, right yeah, so uh, thankyou, thank you so much, thank
you lovely talking.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, it's been fun and it's been fun, and happy
holidays to all of you out thereyes, indeed, happy holidays.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
We'll look forward to our next episode and until then
, we'll see you next year.
Yeah, great Take care.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Thanks guys, bye.
The 4 Bars Podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Edges promotes growth , people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
Welcome to the 4.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Bars podcast.
I'm Ken Leith and I'm PattiLeith.
We're your hosts for somecompelling dialogue, encouraging
our listeners to strengthentheir connections and build
strong communities, lifting eachother up and connecting in ways
that matter.
We named the podcast 4 Bars asa reference to how hard we work
to find a 4 Bars connection onour devices.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships
if we worked as hard atconnecting.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's find out.
Welcome back to Four Bars.
We're excited to be here againwith Jessica Turner.
I'm Patti Leith, your co-host.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Ken Leith.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Jess is a licensed therapist.
She spoke to us in our lastepisode.
We're really spending some timegetting ready for the holidays,
so welcome Thanks for beingback.
Thank you for having me gettingready for the holidays, so
welcome, thanks for being back.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, tell us a little bitabout what you decide.
You know what made you decideto pursue becoming a licensed
therapist?
(00:53):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I think most therapists get into the field
because for similar reasons, foryou know, we want to help
people and in a lot ofsituations I think we want to be
that person that maybe weneeded at another point in life.
Or, you know, we had a greatexperience with a therapist.
That was really a pivotalmoment, and so we want to be
that for another person.
So, going into it, I've known Iwanted to do this since I was
(01:14):
in high school.
Weirdly enough, and it's justtaken different twists and turns
.
I used to think I really wantedto work with kids because I
wanted to be there for kids inthe way that you know.
Maybe I needed someone when Iwas a kid.
And so then it's funny becauseI went through grad school,
started working and realized Iactually don't like kids.
So I was like, well, this is,this is interesting, and so I've
(01:37):
pivoted to working with adultsand find that I enjoy that much,
much more, and so, yeah, it's alittle different than what I
thought it was going to looklike, but you know, the why is
still the same.
Just being able to make adifference.
You know, going through gradschool I told myself, if I make
a difference in one person'slife someday, like it's all
worth it.
You know just that.
Very trying to make the world abetter place, yeah that is
(02:00):
awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Great reason yeah, by the way.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I started my graduate career thinking that I wanted
to get into therapy for childrenand going into child psych and
changed it, realizing for a lotof reasons.
I made the shift to go intoorganizational psychology and I
made my career mostly working onorganizational dynamics and
team dynamics over the years buthad a similar you know, pivot
(02:26):
to that, but in doing so learneda lot about human development
and how we become the adultsthat we become.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That's so interesting when you really start getting
into why are humans the way thatthey are?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I've asked myself that many times.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
By the way, I am I always say we're, we're, we're
part.
You know, it's part nature,it's part nurture, and I think
our personalities are made up ofum a lot of experiences that
went well, we do more of that,and if they didn't go as well,
we do less of that.
You know, and if you want tochange something, you kind of
have to unpack why it's thereabsolutely and and identify that
(03:04):
it even is there yeah, a lot oftimes that's the first step.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Is someone will come in and say I know I don't feel
great, okay, but I don't knowwhy yeah, right or I don't know
what is causing me to feel thisway.
Yeah, so a lot of times at thebeginning of therapy we're just
trying to figure out and unpack,like what it is that's causing
the distress because, becausesometimes we don't even know, no
, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Absolutely.
So we're going to pick up fromlast session this time, look
around the holidays again, butexploring a little bit more
about the situations where we'rein and how do we deal with
those situations when we havefamily, friends or not having
(03:47):
those supports and stuff andthose expectations that come
with the holidays.
How do we create an environmentand tools to be able to cope
better during the holidays?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So I think having a good, healthy support system is
really key there, because wecould have all the people around
us in the world, and thatdoesn't necessarily make
anything better if that supportsystem is not a good one for you
.
Right, if you know you arereally close to your family, but
your family brings you a lot ofstress, maybe because of
(04:15):
differences, or, you know, lasttime we talked about trauma,
right, like, maybe this personhas caused me a lot of pain and
we haven't really ever addressedthat, um, and so you can be
spending all this time aroundfamily, but it might not be
doing you any good and might bemaking things a lot worse, and
so it really, I think, startswith having a healthy, positive
community for you, whatever thatmeans.
(04:37):
A lot of times that maybe isn'tthe family that you're born into
we have this concept of achosen family, right, right, and
people that we choose to spendour time with, and usually, if
you're choosing to spend yourtime with that person, they're a
better person for you.
It's because you feel betterwhen you're around them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, I think we, being here in Northwest Arkansas
in a very fast growingcommunity, we've come to know
people through our communitythat we live in, but also in the
greater community of people whocame here who didn't have
family, so they've had todevelop their family to your
point, choosing them right alongthe way.
(05:13):
And I actually came from alarge family, okay, um, but so I
was just used to family, thedynamic of I was born in this
family.
Right when I got here, it'slike, oh, we have to create it,
and so no one is within a lot ofthe close group we are in in
our community is really from theregion, and so that created a
(05:36):
commonality, I think, to help usto first click and connect
together.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Absolutely.
I mean, one of the centralthemes I talk about with all of
my clients is the sense of likehaving a solid support system.
Obviously, if you're in therapy, you're navigating difficult
things in life and you needpeople in your corner to help
you do.
That is great, because thisarea is full of people who are
looking to meet people.
Yes, right, there's alwayssomebody here that's new, that
(06:08):
is trying to make a friend, andso, even if you're local, you
don't know all the people here,because there's new people every
day, which is really cool, andit's a really great opportunity
to find that sense of communityin a way that's going to be
healthy for you.
That's very good.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So, as we enter the holiday season, we're all going
to be around the table with ourcommunities, whether that is our
immediate family or our chosenfamily or a community that we're
not yet that ingrained in andthere will be differences of
opinions.
Especially now, post-election,there's a lot of differences of
opinions.
What are some techniques andstrategies that people can use
(06:47):
to navigate that?
Sure, yeah, I have a friend whorecently had a wedding and she
was worried that that might comeup, so she set the guidelines
in advance for everyone.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And that is a big part of it.
Boundaries, boundaries,boundaries yes, that is one of
the most common words that comesout of my mouth with clients
and just with my friends,because boundaries this is
something every year on theholidays that comes up with
clients when we're talking aboutthe stress of going home.
It's typically with ourfamilies that people are finding
(07:21):
, because often, with yourchosen family, you're spending
time with them because you havethe commonality and so you maybe
won't have to navigate thosedifferences in the same way.
But, um, political differencesover the last couple years has
been a real big area ofdiscussion, and so what we talk
about is setting boundaries,setting up expectations before
you even go spend time with yourfamily.
(07:44):
Um, you know, shooting it astexts in the family group chat
or calling your whoever andsaying I need there to not be
any talk about politics, right?
Um, I don't want us to to argueover the thanksgiving table.
We don't align here, we don'tneed to talk about it and then
asking that person like, are youokay with this?
And you're not asking reallyfor them, you're asking for you
(08:07):
because if they say no, well,then you can establish a new
game plan.
Maybe that means you don't goright.
If they're not willing torespect that boundary, it that's
a good indicator that you knowit's not going to be a good time
for you.
Um, and a lot of times peopleare like, yeah, let's do that
because they don't want iteither.
Right, yeah, and so that'sreally.
I think the biggest thing issetting up the expectation
(08:29):
before the event itself comes,and then, if you know, the
conversation starts to trend inthat direction, saying, hey guys
, remember, we're not talkingabout this South London.
Yeah, right, right, we allagree.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, reminding right , we all agree, yeah, reminding,
yeah, yeah, the correlationthere of what we do for a living
is a bit, uh, very connected asso, as you have to have your
plan, your strategy, yeah, whatthat is.
I have a game plan, uh, andthen you need to set the ground
rules with respect to that, sothat then you can execute upon
what should be a really goodexperience for everyone, right,
(09:02):
right?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
we're here to eat turkey and you, you know, enjoy
each other.
Let's make it about that.
Yeah, and that's another thingI talk about with people is, you
know, whenever you're goinginto what you feel might be a
difficult conversation, settingyour goal and your your hope for
the conversation at thebeginning, right?
So saying, you know, my hope isthat we can have thanksgiving
(09:24):
and enjoy and like, just spendtime together right, without
this conflict and asking do youalso want that?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
right.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Presumably yes and so then you can say, okay, here's
how we make that happen.
Yeah, and that way, if theconversation starts to go
sideways, you can say remember,this is what we're hoping to get
out of this situation, right,yeah, having that as kind of a
baseline you can go back to.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, yeah, sounds good.
What if I get to my event thatI'm going to and it doesn't go
as discussed or as planned?
How do I navigate that?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, sure, and so we talked about having a game plan
for the holidays, and sosometimes that means you go for
a walk to get a break fromthings, and sometimes it's a
matter of hey, remember, we'renot talking about that, we're
trying to keep things civil hereand hopefully just that
reminder of the boundary right,because if we've established a
(10:20):
boundary going in and thatperson has agreed to it, it
should only take a gentlereminder to get back to that
true background roll right.
Yeah, it should doesn't always,and if so that might be.
You know, sometimes we do haveto set an ultimatum of like you
know I've asked for, you knowI've set this boundary, I've
asked for this to happen, and ifwe can't do that, unfortunately
I have to go.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
This is you know, and then sticking to whatever that
ultimatum or that limit was, butif I don't do that in advance,
and because it, because maybe itdidn't come up, sure, the last
time we were all together for aholiday, sure, um, and it, and
it starts to get really heated.
Yeah, what are some of thethings that I can do?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
yeah, hey guys, I really this doesn't seem like a
productive conversation for usto have.
Like, hey, hey guys, I thinkthis is bringing me a lot of
stress, can we not?
Can we not?
That's a perfect, simple way toyou know, I think you know, we
can have some levity in thatright, especially with your
family, you, you should be ableto have that.
(11:18):
And so just like, hey, let'snot right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Without, without heated emotion, right, like I
cannot do this, right, butabsolutely that might be what
your inside voice is saying, butbut inside.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, it's like panic , red alert, red alert, but
let's not.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, like hey guys, let's not do this when yeah,
when you're doing that red alertI'm going back to, we recently
saw inside out too.
So, yeah, with the anxietiesand anger and all these things,
they're, they're, they're realright with respect to that.
I mean, they did a fantasticjob in both the uh movies.
I'm really exploring, yeah, andour personality and how we're
(11:54):
wired made made up of differentthings- absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
We're a big fan of the inside out movies in my
field.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes, I bet you are it's so incredibly accurate and
it was, you know, and it alsothis one really got into some of
the.
The way that these emotionsbegin to introduce themselves as
we're teenagers and I know alot of how we decide to be
adults has to do with how weprocess that Right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
They get a little more complex, they do.
It's not just the happy, thesad, the mad.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
When our ability to recognize and control gets more.
More, I want to say mature, butyou know it gets more
experienced, right when we.
So we have more in our disposal.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yes, as it gets more complicated and we're hopefully
a little more self-aware yeah,be able to do that, yeah, yeah
hopefully, hopefully I can mighthave as a child.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It might take me a little bit longer to get there,
but that's okay, you're therenow.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
During the pandemic, we we offered a series of
conversations on how to navigatedifferences and we called it
shock talks and it stood forstop hatred, offer caring and
kindness yeah and um and we hada lot of feedback from
participants in shock talks thatthat when they got into a um
(13:06):
discussion about differences,there was an ability to keep it
less emotional and um and andreally inquire about, about a
point of view, as opposed tojust shutting it down.
Do you recommend that?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
situation dependent.
And yeah, okay, because I thinksomething I always say is like
you're the expert on you right,so you know what your limits are
yes um, you're also probably apretty good you've, you've got a
pretty solid root on yourfamily or whoever it is you're
spending that time with, and sowe have to be able to be very
honest with ourselves and say amI capable of doing this?
(13:42):
And are you know, is this groupof people capable of doing this
?
Because sometimes they are,sometimes they're not, and so so
I would say yeah, I wouldanswer that, depending on if the
, if the, the rest of the groupis going to be receptive to that
.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know, sometimes it's, it's a powerful way to
connect absolutely, um, and sowhat are, what are, some of the
(14:16):
fundamentals of storytelling ina in a holiday situation?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
um, that's a good question.
I think there is certainly, youknow, I think, for on the
holidays, sometimes that'sreally the only time you're
seeing that group of people allin that, you know, in one space,
in that setting, and so a lotof times you're catching up, yes
, um, and so that's really theonly time you're seeing that
group of people in that, youknow, in one space, in that
setting, and so a lot of timesyou're catching up, and so
that's always a really goodpivot from you know.
You set that boundary, or youtry to, you know, contain what
(14:45):
could become a dicey situation,and then you pivot back to here.
Let me tell you about X, y, z,right, let me tell you about
this exciting thing at work, orum or that sort of thing, and so
I think really, it's just likesharing things that you find
interesting because other peopleare going to find them
interesting as well, right, andthat establishes some common
ground, and then that can kindof get things back on track and
(15:07):
steer them away from the sort oflandmines that a lot of us are
trying to avoid.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, it's.
It is a good way to kind ofredirect the thinking, because
then people will share theirstories about similar kinds of
things.
Yeah, yeah, so I think it's apowerful tool.
We we really elevated a lot inthe, in the nonprofit work that
we do, to unform bias, becausebias is the story we fill in
(15:33):
when we don't know the storyright.
Um, but storytelling in and ofitself is a really strong
relationship builder, absolutelyhelps us find our common ground
.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
absolutely, I think, asking clarifying questions, you
know, like what do you mean bythat, or can you say more about
that?
Yeah, to really dig deep andreally find that common ground,
because sometimes from thesurface it doesn't feel like
there's much, but we just reallyhave to get underneath.
Right, right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Or I haven't thought about it that way.
Can you shed more light on whatmakes you think that?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Absolutely, that's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah, can you expand onthat?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think the other thing about
storytelling and holidays a lotof times it's nostalgic,
absolutely, and it's nostalgiaand we've come to find at this
point in our lives with havingthis family that we've created
here locally, then ourneighborhood and stuff, is that
you don't necessarily have to bewhere you grew up together to
(16:29):
now have these nostalgic stories, because you're reliving things
forever, whether it's the lastfive years, three years, ten
years, and you start to hear thesame stories.
But we like to have those.
It seems like they're almostlike comfort food or something.
What is it about nostalgia thatwe connect to as human beings?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, that's a great thought.
I think I haven't really everthought about it, but I think
you know, in thinking about it alot of times, you know, when we
think of something that'snostalgic, it's reminding us of
a time when things were happy,right, when things felt good,
because we're generally notgonna keep bringing up things
that weren't so good and so justthe you know, the idea of
(17:08):
something being nostalgic in andof itself.
I think that, like there's alens, or there's an air of
positivity and not and sowanting to revisit those happy
times, right, the good old days,right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, that's an emotion like dessert.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, that's funny.
I haven't thought about it thatway either.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, it is sort of arevisiting of the good old times
, when we started theconversation you said boundaries
, boundaries, boundaries.
Can you speak a little bit tohow we set boundaries as an
individual With others, yeah,kind of with others, and then
(17:45):
inside of our own understanding,where we want those boundaries
to be?
Sure?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
People do not have to understand or agree with your
boundaries in order to respectthem.
And so, being very firmwhenever you are trying to set
boundaries because, if you arewhat I like to call a recovering
people pleaser like myself,it's very hard to set boundaries
sometimes Because we thinkagain, there's this idea that,
oh, this is selfish or Ishouldn't be asking for these
(18:13):
things.
You can ask for whatever youwant.
You may not always get it, butyou can ask for whatever, yes.
And so I think solid strategiesfor setting boundaries are
being very clear, very conciseand not over explaining.
We tend to get into this habitof giving all these reasons for
why we're setting the boundarywe're setting because we think,
oh, that's more evidence for it.
(18:34):
Right, If I have all thesereasons, then it's going to feel
more valid.
But, really what that does is itjust gives an opportunity for
the other person to pick apartall these, all these bullets.
Right, there's more to argueabout versus, if you.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Just this is what I expect, and it's also adds in a
detailed level of complexitythat people may not follow or
check out from Right, right so Iknow I as a person, I like to
think that, you know, Idefinitely have some boundaries,
but I do like to makeexperiences for people Sure, and
(19:12):
I don't typically get stressedout by those experiences.
But what happens if a person isset in their mind, their
boundaries maybe even, but theystruggle with maintaining those
boundaries themselves.
How do they cope with that anddeal with that?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I think we have to assess why they're struggling
right.
Or am I struggling withmaintaining this boundary
because it's not actually areally great boundary for me to
have?
or it's not a realistic boundaryfor me to have, or am I
struggling because other peopleare not respecting that and I'm
not holding them accountable,because then the strategy is
going to be different?
(19:46):
Right, because I think weshould be, you know, ongoing.
We should be assessing is thisstill a good boundary for me to
have, because our needs changeand so sometimes those
boundaries may have to shift,and that's okay.
And a lot of times, when we'reemploying new boundaries with
others especially, you'll getsome pushback or the person you
(20:07):
know innocently forgets and they, you know, do whatever you ask
them not to do, and we have toremind them.
People have a really hard timewith reminding people about
their boundaries because theythink well, I said it already.
Why should I have to tell youagain, yes, you know, sometimes
it it is innocent.
It's just it's a habit that thisperson has formed and they
didn't mean, you know theydidn't knowingly do it
(20:29):
intentionally, and so you'rejust like quick reminder.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah I think that's actually good, because sometimes
I think we think peopleknowingly and do something
intentional and like somewhereabout giving grace and an
understanding intention yeah,that's, that's a huge thing.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I think is, um, not assuming intent, because
typically when we're assumingintent, we're assuming ill
intent.
Yes, most people aren't assuminggood intentions and others all
the time you know, we think, oh,that, um, that person is late
for the meeting, they obviouslydon't care, or they're being
disrespectful, right there's.
You know, our brains don'ttypically go to all the reasons
(21:06):
that may be of why that they'relate right to that meeting, um,
and so we always have to assume,or we always have to operate
assuming, that people are doingthe best that they can, because
naturally, you're going to havemore empathy, more compassion
and also less frustration, right?
Yes, if I think that you aredoing the best that you can do,
even if you're late to themeeting, I know that you're
doing your best, right?
(21:27):
Versus if I'm thinking thatyou're being late on purpose,
I'm gonna have much differentfeelings towards you, and so
it's a part of protecting yourpeace too, by assuming good
intent.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, and most people generallyare doing their best.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, as someone who knows Ken quite well because
we're married, I think Kendoesn't set boundaries because
you have a high degree ofconfidence that most things
don't bother him.
Sure, I'm not similarlyequipped.
I work at my confidence andtherefore have to really keep
myself in situations that, um,that enable me to continue to do
(22:02):
that.
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And that brings up a good point of your boundaries
might look much different fromus, and that's okay.
Yes think you know we we hearabout boundaries, or we hear
someone else talking aboutboundaries, or on tiktok or
wherever you see this therapisttalking about here's boundaries
to set with your family.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That may or may not be good for you, because your
bandwidth is going to bedifferent yeah, yes than mine
yeah, no, I, I like that and youknow, to that point I don't
expect my boundaries or thethings for me to be the same as
other people.
I do know mine are a byproductof kind, of the way I was raised
for the most part, and there'sexperience, like many of us, for
(22:41):
me, to your point too, I think,of people as intent generally.
Is they're going to come withgood intent?
So I can find out otherwise.
Sure, is they're gonna comewith good intent?
Yeah, I can find out otherwise.
True, I also wired that I expectpeople To be different for me.
So when they're similar, I'mjust pleasantly pleased, I'm
sure.
(23:01):
And yeah, and they when theyare different, that's
fascinating.
Yeah, and I don't know ifthat's just a way I was our
coping thing, but it's just,it's the way I look and view
things.
I'm one of the people who wetalk about.
Do you give respect to makepeople, or I Give it?
Now, if someone loses it,though it's really hard to get
about, okay, sure, yeah, that'san area.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, and I think that's interesting because I
think the way that yourframework is is why you're able
to be so easygoing right.
Because I think you areprobably in the minority of
expecting everyone else to bedifferent from you, right?
A lot of people expect otherpeople to operate the way that
we operate, because I'moperating the best way,
(23:44):
obviously yeah to be doing thesame, and then we get frustrated
when they're different.
But it's like the myexpectation of you is my problem
, right?
It's not your problem, that'sreally good, really good.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I like that I want to use it, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I say a lot of times other people's expectations of
you is their problem, so it'sonly on you to manage your own
expectations.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and I am similar to you.
I know because of the work thatI do people are different, but
I am always surprised.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, it's like a do as I say, not as I do, right?
Yeah, I am always surprised.
I know these things, but do Ioperate that way?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
One last area to explore is you mentioned a good
support system and that reallyis probably friendships.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
That you're building Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Can you speak a little bit about best ways to
make friends?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Do what you would do because you want to do it, and
so what I mean by that is, forexample, a big source of my
friend group I met at BlakeStreet, you know, and so I met
them because I was going to thesame workout classes every day
and I'm a cat, so I stay in myback corner every day, I have my
spot and I didn't talk topeople for a while, but
(25:00):
naturally you see the same faces, you're going to start talking
and you already have acommonality, right, you're
focusing on your wellness for,like, if you meet in a workout
class, for example, or, um, youknow, hanging out at a bookshop,
you're gonna find people thatlike to read.
Yeah, it's all.
It's automatically an area ofconnection in an area of
commonality, and that's a reallysolid foundation for building a
(25:23):
friendship with that person.
So just do what you enjoy doingand not putting yourself in
situations that you wouldn'tnormally be in or that you don't
enjoy being in, just becauseyou're trying to meet people
there.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, and because then they're going to want to go
back and do that, and if youdon't enjoy it, right, yeah,
right, absolutely with findingpartners too.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I I hear about you know people saying, well,
where's a good place to meet aguy?
And a lot of times you'll hearlike church or part or wherever.
But if you don't go to churchyou might find a man at church,
but are you guys gonna haveanything in common?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
yeah, right maybe not right?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
or if you don't drink and you're going to bars to
meet people, are you going tohave anything to talk about?
Right, probably not, versusnone.
If that's not what I do and Iso I don't go there to meet
people.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know, I go wherever I want to go, right,
I'm going to meet people thatare interested in the same
things as me I think that's areally good call out, um,
because around the holidaysthere seems to be a heightened
level of loneliness that youhear about, sure, and things of
that nature.
So what do I do during theholidays to help combat that
(26:31):
loneliness?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
sure I think we have to look at, you know, what is
contributing to that.
So one, I think, is kind ofwhat we talked about the
idealistic view of the holidays.
Right, it's supposed to be thistime of togetherness, and so if
you're focused on how muchyou're supposed to be around
other people, you're going tonotice that you're not doing
that to the extent that you'requote supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Right and so just checking in with yourself there.
But I think also, you know,naturally around the holidays
it's colder, we're not outsideas often, so we're going to be
inside or at home more than weare in the summer, when it's
warm and sunshine and we'reoutside.
And so I talked to people, likeI was recently talking to some
friends, about holidays arecoming, seasonal depressions
(27:14):
coming.
Let's start, you know, a newbook club or something that is a
routine thing to look forwardto.
I like trying to create somestructure right, because a lot
of times we we lose the outsideof the kind of gatherings, the,
the planned events, um and sopreemptively, but trying to be
proactive about going in andestablishing some sort of like
(27:37):
community yeah, and making theeffort to do it proactively.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, right absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
This has been fantastic, very educational, and
thank you.
I uh, for those who arewatching the podcast, I'm hoping
that this is very beneficialfor them, especially through the
holiday season, but well beyond, because the things you talked
about are not just for theholidays, they're for every day
of our lives I mean, yeah, Ijust need them a little more
(28:05):
yeah on the holidays, yeah andwe might feel bad for needing
them.
Yeah, right yeah, so uh, thankyou, thank you so much, thank
you lovely talking.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, it's been fun and it's been fun, and happy
holidays to all of you out thereyes, indeed, happy holidays.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
We'll look forward to our next episode and until then
, we'll see you next year.
Yeah, great Take care.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Thanks guys, bye.
The 4 Bars Podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Edges promotes growth , people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
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