Solo or Squad: The Transformative Power of Sober Travel with Michelle Plante

Episode Transcript
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Nadine Mulvina - The Sob (00:02):
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to the sober butterfly.
I
am Nadine Mulvina.
And

Nadine Mulvina - The Sobe (00:07):
today we are joined with a very
special guest.
We have Michelle plant fromMichelle plant travels and
Michelle is reminding women whyit's super important to travel
with other women especially inyour sobriety.
So I'm super excited to get intoa great conversation with
Michelle today, because Her andI just have this common love

(00:28):
around travel.
So if you've been listening tothe podcast or if you're
following me on social mediaplatforms, you know, I love to
keep a trip booked.
And Michelle is the same way.
So Michelle, welcome to theshow.
Can you tell us a little bitabout why you love to travel and
more importantly, why you lovesober travel?

Michelle Plante - Michelle P (00:49):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be chatting.
I love everything you're doing.
You're amazing.
And you're so beautiful,obviously.
I mean, the short version isthat I spent a few years living
on a military base in Japan whenI was a little girl.
So, dad was in the army.
We lived in Hiroshima and thatwas when I first started to get

(01:10):
introduced to other cultures.
And after that, we moved toIowa.
And I noticed this desire toexplore and.
my parents are incredible andthey really wanted to make sure
that I had travel experiences.
So, there was a random studentambassador program that

(01:33):
elementary students went to.
So I traveled to Australia withother elementary school students
when I was in fifth gradewithout my parents.
I lived with a family inGermany.
When I was in high school, Istudied abroad in college.
And ever since I, Just feel likeI can learn so much from other
cultures.
Not only can I learn from them,but I learn more about me and I

(01:54):
love learning about myself.
And through sobriety, I have hadprofound travel experiences
where they just hit different.
They really do.
So I'm so excited to be chattingand
listening

Michelle Plante - Michelle (02:07):
more about your travel experiences,
especially sober and solo too.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Bu (02:11):
I would love to hear, because I
think there is a key distinctionaround what life looked like, at
least for myself, and maybe youcan relate to this idea, what
life looked like for metraveling When I was drinking
versus traveling sober becauseI've always loved to travel, but
life looked very different whenI was taking trips drinking and

(02:33):
I put myself in manycompromising situations.
I probably won't be able to getinto all of that today here, but
I would just want to know, likefrom you, what was that turning
point?
Like, because you do have overfive and a half years of
sobriety, which is incredible.
You got sober January of 2019.
That's Amazing.
So I want to hear what lifelooked like and what were some

(02:53):
defining moments that helped youget super clear around?
Okay, I need to get sober.
And then what did sober travellook like in relation to life
before?

Michelle Plante - Michell (03:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll, I'll just talk about mytwenties was my first like big
solo trip.
I went to Europe, I went to fourcountries.
That was kind of an impulsivetrip, which I wouldn't
recommend.
But it was one of those thingswhere it was like, I need to go
on a vacation.
So I, you know, booked a weekand a half in Europe.
Whatever.
We've all been there.

(03:23):
Right?
and I was drinking and I drank alot and, uh, it scares me to
think about it now, honestly,because, who knows what could
have happened.
and I believe that, you know, weget to be safe and we, we are
sovereign humans and, I don'twant to say like, oh, bad things

(03:45):
are going to happen just becauseyou're drinking, you know,
that's not true.
But for me, when I drank, I wasjust someone who would say yes
to anything.
And I have said yes to a lot ofthings while drinking.
And, um, know, after that trip,I did a trip in Central America.
I went to Guatemala and Belize,and I was drinking then too.

(04:05):
And, I just remember one of the,one of the days I had to sleep
the whole next day and I orderedroom service and I couldn't even
eat it.
I couldn't even drink water.
And I just slept for an entireday, did not leave my hotel
room.
And I was like, I doing this?
The night before I'd gone out,met a bunch of people, drank,

(04:26):
whatever, you know, whatever youdo, it's seems fun.
I don't know that it's actuallyfun.
but that was kind of when I waslike, am I doing?
Like, what, what is this?
I missed out on an entire day.
when I stopped drinking inJanuary, 2019, It wasn't that I
wasn't to travel.

(04:48):
There just weren't as manyopportunities for me.
I wasn't making it a priority.
And when I first quit drinking,I was very isolated and I know
what to do.
I knew zero people that didn'tdrink.
And so I was just kind of like,I'm just going to stay in my
house, I guess.
But my first solo sober trip was

(05:08):
in 2021 to Isla Mujeres.
And, Oh,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober (05:12):
wow.

Yeah.
Have you been,

No, I have it, but it's on my list.
Yeah.
I love Mexico.
I lived in Mexico and I have somuch to parallel, but I'll let
you finish.

Okay.
Yay.
Yay.
Excited.
But, when I came on this trip,I, I kind of had the realization
like, wow, this is my first solosober trip.
And it was a longer trip and Ijust, I mean, I journaled all
day, every day.
Pretty much.
I went running.
I met a beautiful woman that I'mfriends with on Facebook and we,

(05:43):
you know, we say, Hey,sometimes, I still noticed that
I felt lonely and isolated andit was a beautiful, beautiful
experience.
One of my favorite trips, I wentswimming with whale sharks,
which is incredible veryspiritual.
I noticed that I was just sad.
going to be honest.

(06:03):
I was sad.
I was still sad.

Yeah, that's so real.
I can relate to many parts ofyour story.
when you mentioned this idea ofgoing out and taking like solo
trips in your twenties.
And, of course it was.
An amazing experience.
However, can you even rememberall parts of it?
I'm asking myself this questionand you know, anyone at home

(06:27):
that may be thinking about timesin which they traveled and they
may have done the all inclusivesor they partied so hard and it's
like you spend all of this moneyand it's like you're in the
place, but you're not presentand then you're losing days.
Like you have that I don't know.
Long lasting hangover, possiblyanxiety the next day.
And these are very realoccurrences that happen time and

(06:49):
time again.
And like you and I think canconnect as well on this idea of
having our threshold completelylowered.
I was a yes girl.
I was very much the girl thatwas like, once I was drunk, I
was open to pretty muchexperiment and do things I would
never do in my sound mind.
So like, that's the inherentdanger, of course, that exists
for people as well.
And when you're outside of yourcomfort zone, when you were

(07:10):
traveling solo And you'redrinking.
It's like you are really puttingyourself in a position where
anything could happen.
When you travel, you shouldextra vigilant period.
And when you're drinking, itjust doesn't lend itself well to
this idea of safety.
And so like my safety waspersonally at risk many, many
times.
And I'm very thankful that worstthings didn't happen, but I have

(07:30):
been robbed.
I have been.
Blacked out on a beach in, Cabo.
This is for my 30th birthday, asolo trip that I did.
So like, these are very realthings that happened for me.
So thank you for highlightingthose things because I think
people at home may hear remnantsof their past or past travel
experiences.
And what I want to talk to youabout is solo travel.

(07:52):
So like you got sober, you wenton this amazing solo trip, but
you would still feel isolated.
And when I first got sober, Ialso felt Isolated but I think
it was like listening to thismantra, which was isolation for
preparation.
Like I thought that I needed tokind of distance myself because
most people are familiar, you'reright, most people are familiar

(08:12):
with people, places, things.
Like these can be triggering forpeople who are newly sober.
And so for me, I was just kindof like, yeah, I can't handle
being in the same ecosystem thatmy drinking thrived in.
So I decided to remove myselffrom certain things.
And I actually went on avacation with two girlfriends
who were not sober, but likethey didn't prioritize drinking,

(08:35):
which was really nice becauseprior to that, every girls trip
I ever took was very much likethe bachelorette style.
Like we're turning up, we'regoing to all inclusives, we're
blacking out on a boat, like allof the things that you would
think of that are problematic,at least in my mind when it
comes to drinking.
So I'd never gone basically on atrip with girls who were not

(08:56):
prioritizing drinking and theyreally helped me.
Lean into this idea of I can befun.
I can have a good time withoutdrinking.
So my question for you,Michelle, is what are your key
distinctions between solotravel, and community based
travel groups, like the onesthat you're running and like,

(09:16):
how does sobriety factor intoall of this?

Yeah.
For sure.
Oh, so beautiful.
So beautiful.
I think that first I, I knowwhat it feels like to travel
with girlfriends who don't makedrinking, necessarily a
priority, but they're stilldoing it.
And it's like, okay, that'scool.
You know, but it, it is a littledifferent.

(09:39):
I
went to, Tulum with a couple

of girlfriends that I love.
And, you know, we, we had a nicehouse and it was fun.
And, just noticed still, youknow, either towards the end of
the night, sometimes in theafternoon, no judgment.
It was just like, okay, we'rehaving the same conversations
over again.
And they're like, I'm here.
Cause I miss you guys.
I haven't seen you in a year.
Like I want to talk.

(10:03):
I want to go deep.
Like, I want to hear like whatyou're going through and how I
can support you and how I can bea good friend and also, yeah, we
can talk about silly things likewhatever Taylor Swift, I don't
know, but it's like, but oncethey hit like a different
vibration or frequency, I'm justkind of like, okay, And, and

(10:25):
there's moments where I'm like,should I have just gone by
myself?
You know, because it's like,it's that question.
Would you rather go alone andactually be by yourself?
Or would you rather go withother people?
and then also noticing thosefeelings of isolation.
So I've done a lot of work, towhere I can feel fulfilled in
many situations.
I also grew up an only child.
I don't know if you havesiblings.

I'm an only child.
That's crazy.
I'm also an only child.
Yeah.
This is really like, this iscrazy, Michelle.
Yeah.

Okay.
When's your birthday?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober B (10:57):
my birthday's in March.
I'm an Aries, sun sign, Geminirising, which is crazy.
And, uh, Libra moon.

Okay.
Okay.

When's your birthday?

I'm October, 24th Scorpio.
I don't, I have the otherthings, but I forget.

It's okay, it's okay.
that's amazing.
You're an only child, so yeah,so you know what it's like to
feel isolated, or to feel alone.
But sometimes it's like, I thinkas only children, You learn to
lean into your own company,like, if that makes sense,
you're kind of like, I thinkgrowing up young, like I was, I
begged my parents, I wanted tohave siblings so badly, but then

(11:36):
you get to a certain age andyou're just kind of like, Oh,
this is what it is.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And you're just, you just acceptit, of course.
And and then, you know, whenyou're 15, you're like, are you
sure we're not going to adopt abrother?
Um, they're like, no.
So that, that has been so muchof my experience too, is solo
travel.
It's also just really familiar.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(12:00):
Yeah.

Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Mich (12:01):
actually traveling in groups makes me
uncomfortable because I'm notthat used to it.
And,

Yeah.

is that's what I want.
value deep connection with otherpeople.
And that's what I wanted when Iwas drinking.
I wanted to connect with peopleand I was hoping that their
barriers would go down.
So I drank so I could have theselike deep conversations with
people, but the reality is it's,they're not real.
They're not genuine.

(12:29):
And.
with women will change you.
It will literally change yousurrounding yourself in an
immersive experience withinspiring women who are also
alcohol free.
It will change your life.

Wow.
You know, I never made that.
Parallel between being an onlychild and solo travel because
people look at me like I'm crazymy girlfriend's included when I
tell them I'm going on thesetrips by myself.
Like, I went to South Africa inFebruary by myself, and like, to
me, it's no big deal, but Ithink it's what you mentioned.
It's just, I'm used to beingalone and I feel most

(13:06):
comfortable.
Not even, I'm just used to it.
I feel most comfortable in myown company.
And I also used alcohol as asocial lubricant to, Uninhibit
myself to be the more outgoingperson.
I think naturally I am.
I have tendencies of beingsocial.
That's where I
get the sober butterfly
from but like when I removed the the

(13:28):
crutch of alcohol I wasquestioning my outgoing
personality.
I'm like, did I curate this?
Is this real?
Because growing up, actually, ifyou want to go way back to
childhood, like as an onlychild, I was very shy.
I was very introverted.
And it wasn't until really likehigh school, college, when I
started to drink that I was ableto like, quote, unlock another

(13:51):
level of myself to where I couldbe the crazy outgoing.
I'm going to walk up to anybodyat a bar party.
But like, that's not my naturaldefault mode.
So I really like that you madethat distinction for me because
I don't think I realized maybehow much like my solo travel is
a comfort mechanism.
So that's interesting to say.

(14:11):
And like, I haven't taken a, um,sober.
Group trip, like I've takengroup trips group trips that I
have curated with mygirlfriends, my immediate
circle, and I, I have abarometer now, like I'm not
going to travel with anyone.
I've had to learn that time andtime.
You cannot travel with anyone.
So, now that I want this to belike a tips.
Episode, but I'm curious, like,what ideas you have around,

(14:33):
like, how to go about, travelingwith girls, like, if you were
doing a girl's trip, what shouldthat look like?
what are some, questions maybewe should reflect on or ask
ourselves before we decide to,like, group travel?

Yeah, totally.
For sure.
And I'm so happy you had thatreflection and thank you for
sharing that with me.
It's really cool.
I'd love to chat more about ittoo.
I think it's so interestingbecause I feel, growing up
there's a, there's a lot ofthis, like, I don't like hanging
out with girls.
I'm more of a guy's girl.
Like I'm just, I'm lowmaintenance.

(15:06):
I, I just like, don't like thedrama I'm like, you're hanging
out with the wrong girls becausethere are some true.
Ladies around who will literallysit and look you in the eye and
tell you that you're amazing andthat you can do anything that
you want.
And I think that a part of mywork along the way has been,

(15:34):
I'll just be honest.
I used to prioritize.
men

over girlfriends.
I did that for?
a long time.
um, yeah.
Okay.
And, uh, so anytime when I waswith girlfriends, it meant less
amount of time that I waschasing this unavailable man
that would, you know, notrespond anyway.

(16:00):
and, uh,

Nadine Mulvina - The S (16:01):
Speaking to my heart.

Okay.
So, so I think that for somereason there's some resistance
for women and I've experiencedit too.
Like being with a group ofgirlfriends, it's like, We're
just not used to it.
We're, we're not prioritizing itsomewhere along the way, you

(16:25):
know, of course, like there's,there's families and partners
and, and all these friends, butlike groups of women will change
you.
will

Mm

Michelle Plante - Michel (16:35):
change you.
And I love that these groups ofwomen who are alcohol free.
And again, the trips aren'tlike, Oh, well we're alcohol
free.
So we're all friends.
Like, no, we, we are all friendsbecause we're making a decision
to invest in ourselves.
And that happens to

hmm.

alcohol.
And I also feel like travel isconsistently pushing you out of
your comfort zone.
And when you do that, you growso much faster.
And then when you're doing thatsurrounded by women who are also
doing that, like, it's just,it's an up level every trip.

I love that.
Do you have any, like, stories?
You mentioned before, you wentto Tulum, it was a vibe with
your girlfriends, but, like,they weren't sober, and I think
people cross this threshold,even if they're not prioritized
in drinking the whole time, but,like, you know how it goes.
You get back to the house, theAirbnb.
the wine starts pouring, theconversations start flowing, but

(17:36):
the depth of conversation isn'tnecessarily in alignment to like
you wanting that deep, profoundconnection.
And it seems very surface level.
And then like you mentionedbefore, like the stories get
repeated and people startwhatever.
So I would like, love to hearlike, what are some key things?
Things or takeaways from pastexperiences that you've had with

(17:56):
sober women that have been lifealtering that really gets you
going.
I want to impart with listenersat home, this idea of like why
sober group travel is supervaluable.
I want to visualize like, whatcan I expect or what can I hope
for?
I should say, if I join a sobergroup travel initiative,

Yeah, totally.
And I feel like a lot of times Alot of women are like, well, I
want to be able to do my ownthing.
I don't want to have to likefollow along with the crowd.
I don't want to go to this placefor dinner.
And the reality is you don'thave to.
Like you definitely don't.
And that's what I've been lovingabout these trips lately is like

(18:35):
it's such a perfect balance.
Like we're all adults.
not saying like, Oh, come, comewith me here.
It's just like, Hey, we'rewaking up.
We're going to do a littlebreath work.
We're going to do a littlejournaling.
Let's have breakfast.
Let's have some juice.
You know, we're going to CostaRica in January.
Today we're going hiking.
We're going to go see abeautiful waterfall.
We'll meet for dinner here.

(18:56):
If you don't want to come, ifyou just want to stay in your
room.
Cool.
Like that's totally fine.
I think that previously when Iwas traveling in groups, I felt
like I had to do everything,what everyone was doing.
And as of lately, and I alsoencourage people to do the same,
like you get to decide.
And if you don't want to go todinner one night, like it's

(19:19):
okay.
It's totally okay.
Like if you just need a minutefor yourself or you want to call
friends or you want to call yourboyfriend, your husband or
whatever, like, yeah.
Stay in like it's all good.
See you at breakfast, you know,and I think that I, I would just
encourage women that speaking upand saying like, Hey, I'm not

(19:41):
feeling well, I'm going to stayhere and also knowing that
you're in the space whereeveryone's like, Cool.
You need anything?
And you know, she's like, no,it's like, okay.
we trust each other.
We trust each other's decisionsand we trust that it's, it's the
best.
We're not going to sit here andsay, no, you have to come.
You have to come to dinner.
You're so lame.
It's like, okay.

(20:03):
Thanks for letting me know.
See you tomorrow.
love, you know?

Yeah, that's amazing because sometimes
I think the best intentionsstill come across wrong.
Like, I've been in groupsettings with girls who are not
sober and they feel like if I'msetting a boundary, and say I
don't want to go to this thing.
They think it's because I feeltriggered, or they're almost
trying so hard to not excludeme.
But it's like, no dude, like, Iactually need some time, and

(20:30):
like, I know what I need.
At this stage in my sobriety, Iknow what I need.
So it's not that I'm, like,feeling left out, or I need you
to, like, push me to do thisthing.
It's more so like, no, Iactually don't want to do this,
and I'm okay and sound in thatdecision, and I need you to also
be Sound in my decision to knowwhat's best for me.
So I absolutely love that and itjust makes me feel Inspired to

(20:53):
consider doing group trips.
I think because I've had so manybad experiences when it comes to
traveling with people who aredrinking too much.
I also sometimes just say tomyself, well, I know I can
control the elements more if Idecide to just take a trip by
myself.

(21:13):
I don't want to necessarily haveto go through the hoops or
figuring out the logistics ofhow I can set boundaries with
people when I can just go bymyself.
But like, I do think my sobrietyneeds connection.
And so I, I just want to addthat as a layer of nuance that,
this idea of sober group travelis really, really important.
impactful because you get bothand it's helpful for me too

(21:35):
because I mentioned behind thescenes which I can also share
with people at home.
So i'm in the process ofplanning a sober retreat in
March of next year of 25.
Thank you with Ellie over at dryin the desert and this is like
really helpful for us to likethink through what people are
actually looking for, what theyare craving, what is missing.

(21:58):
And I think the key piece youjust touched on is respect and
boundaries, but also likeauthentic connections, like
knowing when you can bringpeople in, but also protecting
people's peace and likeunderstanding that.
We as sober women, we have thisthing in alignment, but the
common thread is not just oursobriety.
Like we are so much more thanthat.

(22:18):
It's just this idea that like,we really have this lifestyle
alignment that sometimes youcan't find easily.
So I love everything that you'redoing.
And I hope that people at homelean into this idea that maybe
sober group travel is somethingthat they can look forward to.
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What would you say to anyone who is
thinking about traveling?
Maybe they haven't solo traveledbefore because I think that's a
common thing.
I think you and I are a littleunique.
Because I really don't know,like, I have a girlfriend right
now.
She's my best friend And shewants to go to Italy so badly.
So I'm like, well, just go byyourself and she will not do it.

(24:41):
she's like, I don't feelcomfortable.
Do you think There is value insolo travel, whether you're
sober or not, like she's notsober, but like, do you see the
value in solo travel or do youthink it's overrated and we just
need to like, focus on aligningour group travel with people who
are similar minded or at leasthave similar lifestyles?

Whew.
Well, I, I'm at a point where Iit's overrated.
I do.
I think it's really special, forwomen who are like, I will never
do that.
I'm like, okay, well justyourself out to dinner tomorrow.
Do that.

Yeah.

take yourself out to dinner and see
what that feels like, becausethat alone can be very
liberating.
So like I went to Tulum solo inJanuary this year.
And I love Mexico too.
Um, and I was like, Hey guys,does anyone want to come to
Tulum?
Everyone's like, Oh, I can'tmake it, you know, whatever.

(25:45):
And I've just learned thattravel is something I invest
heavily in.
I prioritize it.
Not everyone is like that.
I go back and forth, like Iwould rather travel solo than
not travel at all,

Mm hmm.
Yeah.

and I think there's ways to connect
way more now than, than therewas like 10 years ago or
whatever.
And I always ask, you know,like, what are you trying to get
out of the trip?
What are you looking for?

Right.

What do you want?

Right.
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I think you have to have a clearvision for what you hope to get
out of the trip.
And then you have to beflexible.
You have to be agile.
No matter whether you travel ingroup or solo, you have to be
able to pivot as needed and takewhat you need from the trip.
So if you need space, if you'rein a group setting, for example,

(26:36):
or if you need connection, ifyou're solo travel traveling,
for example, then find that,seek that out, because otherwise
you could.
Be in a position where you'veruined the trip for yourself,
which I've ruined plenty oftrips for myself, even sober
because sober is not like theend all be all perfect solution
to every problem in life.

(26:57):
So when you plan youritineraries, do you plan for fun
too?
Because as much as I love thewellness stuff, I also still
want to have a good time.
Not that I want to be in theclub, but I like social
interactions and social events.

totally.
Totally.
And I'll tell you one of mysuperpowers is dancing sober.
Just saying like,

I love that.
Me too.
I'll be the first one on thedance floor.

same with my water

Yeah.

maybe a club soda.
Um, once like once let's do itonce.
Let's have fun one night, youknow, when we're not doing
anything the next day and, andit's like, it's, you know,
nothing crazy, obviously andwe're not staying out super
late.
I, I love to go to bed early.
very early.
So it's just like, let's, let'slike have fun.

(27:43):
Let's be out and about.
And yeah, like, are we in aplace with alcohol?
Yeah, we are, but there's otheroptions.
And if people aren'tcomfortable, you don't have to
come, you know and we have theseconversations.
Before the trips, like, Hey, youknow, we might be going to some
places that serve alcohol.
How do you feel about that?
Is that okay?
Typically the answer is yes.
there's nothing more fun thanjust like being on the dance

(28:03):
floor with your girlfriends andlike, being silly, like having

Having from being silly, and I hate to
say this, but I've said itbefore.
It's a little bit entertainingto sometimes being settings
where people are drinking,because you can almost like
foreshadow what's going tohappen next.
You're just like, oh, here wego.

percent.

going to call it over there.
And it's just kind of like.
Am I, am I better than everyone?
I'm like, no, I'm sorry.
But it kind of feels like thatbecause I'm like, I don't need a
drink to be silly and dance andhave a good time.
If I'm dancing and a guy's like,comes up and he's like, Oh, what
are you drinking?
I'll get you your next drink.
And I'm like, Seltzer, And he'slike, wait, you're not, but
you're not, you're not drunk.
You were just like this, like,yeah, I'm, I'm actually just

(28:47):
insane.
Um, so yeah, I, I absolutelylove that.
And then of course, if you dothat night out with your group,
the next day you can wake upearly and obviously without any
regrets or hangover, and it'sjust a really beautiful moment.
my mornings are my favoritepart.
Part of my day.
Um,

Yeah.

love
yeah.
so sacred to me and

I, I wasted so much time before.
And so now I'm making up forlost time a little bit.
And I'm an early girl to if Istay up late, it's because I'm
working.
But aside from that, I'm like, Iwant to be in bed by 10.
with my sleepy girl, mocktailand magnesium.

All the things castor oil.
Well, I was listening, uh, yourepisode about, um, seeing usher
and how you were falling asleepand I was like, I've never felt
so seen.
Yeah.

was with my, so it was a girl's trip
too.
And I was with my cousin.
My cousin doesn't drink thatmuch, and her friends are like,
they drink a little bit, butlike compared to my friend
group.
When I was drinking, they'revery lightweight, but they were
definitely drinking.
They're also older than me.
They're like five years older.
So I was embarrassed.
Like I'm the baby out the groupand I'm just like, Knocked out

(29:59):
in the middle of this man'sconcert.
Oh, and we paid a pretty pennyto be there.
So I felt like, damn, like Ishould really be soaking up
every moment of Usher and Usher.
If you're listening to this,which maybe you are, I want you
to know that you are aphenomenal.
entertainer.
It very much was not you.
It was me.
It was me.
It was very much me and yourconcert should not start at 11

(30:22):
p.
m.
because sober girls need to bein bed sleeping at that time.

Well, first I was actually in Vegas
when I was listening to thatepisode.
So I was like crying, laughingbecause it was so real.
Um, and I'm actually headedthere next month too, but okay.
Maybe you and I should do thisseparately, but I love seeing
live music.
Like I love music.
do concerts start at 9.

(30:50):
can we get a, like a 9 a.
m.

I know, I know they have those day
raves, which are cool, but likea concert, yeah.
Like everyone can win andbenefit.
Like let's have a day festival,daytime, like vibe for sure,
because yeah, it's just toolate.
It's just way past my bedtime.
What are your thoughts on Vegashit or miss for
you as a sober girl.

(31:16):
I

love it.
I, I'm, I'm a fan.

Me too.

calm.
I'm very comfortable, you know,five and a half years of
sobriety.
And I think it's so funny.
It, it kind of like gives methat like crazy feeling that
perhaps I used to really embodywhen I was drinking.
And it's not like I'm going tothe clubs or anything like that.
And I only gambled once, but Iwon 5 just saying on the wheel

(31:41):
of fortune

Ooh.

Um, there's so much to do and thank
you.
And there's a lot of naturearound too.
this last time I went to thepunk rock museum, which like I
said, I love music and sevenmagic mountains.
do you know what that is?
It's like the

No, I've never heard of it.

there.

Cool.
No, I haven't heard of it.

but these beautiful.
Beautiful rocks.
Yeah.
So Vegas,

I love that.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Pl (32:07):
a yes for me.
I love, I love hot.
I love walking around.
I love how just like cheesy and,and interesting it is.
What about you?

Oh, it's a hell yes for me.
I, I loved Vegas and I was alittle scared to go because I've
only been to Vegas twice and thefirst time I went was, I must've
been like 24 and it was what youwould imagine Alcoholic 24 year
old to be doing all the thingsin Vegas like that was very much
what I embodied on that trip Sogoing back last year You know

(32:41):
almost 10 years later Wasamazing because I got to see
Vegas with a fresh set of eyesand And it was amazing.
the main event for me was theconcert, but then we went to
like a magic show.
We did a day trip to the GrandCanyon, which was cool.
we ziplined across, old Vegas,which I had done the first time

(33:04):
I went, but I was so hungover.
So it was beautiful to do itagain, sober.
So yeah, Vegas for me, like,Anytime anyone wants to go to
Vegas, I'm like, yes, pleasesign me up.
I will, I will be there in aheartbeat.
Cause I love it.
And I love being like adjacentto the chaos a little bit.
Like I mentioned before, like Ilike to see what's going on and
then be like, okay, good night.

Yeah.
Like I see it, but I'm not partof it where normally I would
have been like part of it, youknow?
So

Exactly, exactly.

and there's, there's great energy
there.
Like people are just happy Ifeel and they're just, you know,
on vacation.
So I, I just like it.
I think it's a really fun spot.

Same.
And so, us your top threedestinations.
Sober edition.
So if anyone's thinking abouttaking a trip, what are your top
three?
Like, what are you thinking?

Oh! my gosh.
So many.
domestic, I would say, mean, Ilove, I love anywhere with a
national park.
I love anywhere where there'shiking.
I love Denver.
I love Colorado.
I think there, there's a lot todo there.
I live in Kansas City.
Um, there's so much to do here.
I love KC too.

(34:16):
Um, I go to Mexico a lot.
Honestly, I've been there threetimes this year.
might go once more, but loveMexico.
I think it's more of just like,what are you wanting to get out
of this trip?
And where are you in your liferight now?
And that would help me decide.
And, um, I want to do a funlittle game.

(34:38):
So I have This book want you totell me like a number.
Tell, like, pick a number 1through 200 or something, and
we'll tell you where you'regoing next.

Oh! This is perfect.
Okay.
Um, I'm going to pick myfavorite number, which is 22,
22.
I'm excited for this.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Pl (35:02):
I love that number, too.
Okay.

Oh, you love 22 as well?
That's okay.

just love

I love it.

Okay.
You're going to Thailand!

I love Thailand.
I've been to Thailand twice.
It's one of my favoritecountries.
So if I were to offer a topdestination, I would put
Thailand.
Top three for sure.
It has everything.
It has city.
I love the city of Bangkok.
It has beaches like the mostincredible beaches Phuket.
Um, it has mountain ranges.
It's just amazing.

(35:38):
I absolutely adore Thailand.
Although the last time I went, Ihad, um, the worst bout of food
poisoning.
of my life.

Oh, no.

Um, so it left a little bit of a bad
taste in my mouth, which means Ijust need to go back.
I just need to go back now.
But it was so bad.
I popped a blood vessel withoutbeing too graphic.
My eyes were throwing up andalso pooping.
Yeah, it was terrible.

Michelle Plante - Mic (36:01):
goodness.
You have an all time favoritetrip you've been on, sober or
not?

that's a great question.
Okay.
So last summer I did a trip.
I went to Five differentcountries in asia, and I started
a trip with a girlfriend who I'mno longer friends with if that
tells you anything about thattrip.
Um, it just reminds me onceagain, like you can't travel
with everyone.

(36:27):
And then I ended the trip.
So it was like we were togetherfor the majority of the trip.
But then when I got to Bali, Iwas solo.
And this is why I keep goingback and oscillating
between like versus group

Nadine Mulvina - The So (36:40):
travel.
But I don't think it's a faircomparison because like the
person I was with It just, thevibe was so off, it almost
ruined my trip when I went toBali alone.
I was so at peace, but I thinkit was like residual effects of
just like feeling toxic energy.
So I would say that Bali tripwas very special to me.

(37:02):
It's breathtaking.
I swam with dolphins, not justlike in a pool, like in the
ocean on the catamaran attachedto like this anchor and like you
literally have snorkel gear onand you see the dolphins jumping
above and then below there arelike hundreds of dolphins.
I went on hikes, I went to beachclubs.
So it was just everything that Ilike to do.
And that was a solo trip.

(37:23):
group wise though, I have hadpositive experiences.
With girls specifically.
And I was able to go when Ifirst got sober on a really long
trip.
similar to you, I went to like afew countries in Europe and
North Africa with two othergirls.
And that was a very specialmoment for me because they
really helped me in my earlysobriety.

(37:45):
We went to a vineyard even inPortugal, which I wouldn't
recommend people to do, but, um,we did it and they called ahead
to make sure that like, thevineyard knew I was sober.
So at the end of the tour, theyhad this whole spread for me.
It was water and crackers andgrapes, but I appreciated them
making that effort.
Whereas, you know, before that,yeah, before that, like girls I

(38:07):
would have traveled with, theywouldn't have cared.
So it was just like really mademe feel special and seen.
Think I'm kind of on the fence.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So are you.
And I love what you're doing.
Like you are so special andyou're tapping into a really
special opportunity for peoplewho are at a crossroads.
Because I think some people likewon't even travel because they
don't have people to travelwith, as we mentioned.

(38:29):
And they don't want to do thesolo travel, which is fair.
It's not for everyone.
We're only children.
So we know what it's like.
Well, then on top of that, likethey may feel triggered if they
travel with friends who aredrinking.
So I think that you have reallyhit that sweet spot where people
who are sober curious or havesober time want to connect with
other people, other womenspecifically, and the power of

(38:52):
group is so important.
Do you have any trips planned inthe future?
Are you thinking about launchingany new trips.
I would love to hear, becausemaybe I'll come I am very much
looking to book a trip.
You don't have to convince me.

Yes.
Okay.
So excited.
So two for sure.
So next year, 2025 in January,we're headed to Costa Rica.
So we're doing La Fortuna.
Yes.
And Las Catalinas.

love that.

you been?

I went to Santa Teresa and it was
amazing.
It was like a Tulum minus thechaos.
It's a very jungle, like.
off the beaten path.
Like you have to ride around onlike dirt bikes and four
wheelers.
So that was amazing.
That was a solo trip.
And I met girls there who werenot sober, but also they were
cool.
But like, I can see Costa Ricaas being like the prime location

(39:40):
because it's so beautiful andthere's so much, eco tourism
there.
I feel like that would just bean amazing connection.
But I've not been to La Fortuna,so I would be very open to that.
That's amazing.

Yeah.

January, that's, it's cold everywhere.
That's amazing.

And that's another, that's another
thing too, for women who aresober curious they're not really
sure what their relationshipwith alcohol is looking like.
If they're able to commit toseven days in Costa Rica, like,
Hey, just try it.
Come meet with other women whoare doing the same thing.
Like you're still getting outand about when I did my first
dry January, I mean, I, Barelyleft my house.

(40:16):
And so I want to give women theopportunity to just leave and
explore and feel inspired andhave something to look forward
to.
It will be cold, depending onwhere you live.
So that for sure, which I'mreally excited about.
That is all about adventure, ziplining, coffee and chocolate
tours.
a sunset catamaran, really niceaccommodations.

(40:37):
we're staying at two differentproperties, one with beautiful
hot springs.
And then the second one,everyone has their own infinity
pool.
So it's just nice.
Like

What?

just

That's amazing.

India, we're going to in March, That
will be North India, acompletely like spiritual
experience.
Yeah.

That's big on my list.
Oh my gosh.

That destination is, is is so
complex, so dazzling, so unique,that I think that there's more
room for women to, be surroundedby more.
Does that make sense?

I'm imagining going to like the
different monuments and yoga.
And I do think that lends itselfnicely to a bigger group India
sounds incredible.
I love everything you're doing.
I have one last question for youactually before we part.
This has been an amazingconversation.
Thank you so much.
If you could leave anything withlisteners at home today around
sober travel, just period, likethis overall theme of sober

(41:32):
travel.
What would you like to impart?
Like what wisdom could youshare?
as someone who has experiencedboth sober travel and non sober
travel, group travel and solotravel.

Yeah.
Beautiful.
I would say.
Just be ready.
Be ready for some beautifulinsights.
Be open to new experiences.
Be open to learning more thingsabout yourself.
Be open to witnessing newstrengths that you never knew
you had.
Be open to change and just becurious be like, I'm ready to
learn more about myself.

(42:03):
When we learn more aboutourselves, we can love ourselves
that much more.
And when we can do that, we canlove others more.
And that's, that's what I'm hereto do.

I got chills.
I love that so much.
You and I have so much in commonjust outside of sobriety.
See like in the firstconversation we're having, we're
realizing we're only children,how much we love to travel.
The decentering of men is veryreal because I used to also
prioritize men above friendshipsand girls.

Yeah.

so it's just like so many things
that we just find.
Common threads with and likethat is the beauty because I
think when you do the work onyourself when you do the hard
Work of like extracting thetruth out of the fact that
alcohol is not serving me Likethat is the baseline and then
you realize you have all ofthese other commonalities that
exist And I think that's whatyou probably realize obviously I

(42:52):
see you nodding your head

Yes.

your sober Girls trips, because it's
like, these women are alreadyinterested in optimizing their
lives and doing better and beingthe best versions of themselves.
So I think that alone is like abarometer of entry for people to
go on the trip because it'slike, yeah, I don't care about
these superficial, surface levelconversations and things like
that.
So thank you for the work thatyou're doing, Michelle.

(43:15):
And if I didn't say thisalready, Michelle, Alice, Plant
M A P what an amazing initial tohave you are on the map and I
love everything that you'redoing.
So thank you.
Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.
This was amazing.
Looking forward to moreconversations and love
everything that you're doing andjust being so honest about your
sobriety And your experiences.
It's, it's so, so beautiful.
It's so necessary.
So thank you for continuing todo that.

And thank you for being here and
sharing parts of your story andeverything you're working on.
If people have questions for youor want to connect with you,
where can they find you?

Yeah.
Instagram at Michelle planttravels.
Come find me.

I'll plug that in the show notes.
Um, if you guys have questions,hit Michelle up and yeah, I have
a feeling that there'll be apart two conversation on the
horizon.

Can't wait.

you for coming.

the-sober-butterfly_20_06-19 (44:08):
If you enjoyed this episode, please
subscribe if you're watching onYouTube if you're listening from
home, leave a review and shareit with your friends, follow me
on social media@the.soberbutterfly for more
tips and inspiration until nexttime, stay amazing and keep
glowing.

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