March 21, 2024 • 33 mins
Click Here to listen to Why Kids Lie: Part 1
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As a parent, confronting the uncomfortable truth of a child's lie can be a heart-wrenching moment. On today's Whole Parent Podcast, we delve into the delicate balance of handling such revelations with empathy and understanding. Our conversation is grounded in personal experiences and the gentle wisdom of Fred Rogers, offering a guiding light to navigate through these parenting waters. From a tale of suspected stealing to the crucial steps of addressing mistakes, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of fostering honesty and growth in our little ones.
Parenting is an art form, and just like any artist, we must learn from each brushstroke, each mistake. This episode provides a three-step process for responding to children's slip-ups in a way that builds trust and encourages learning. We tackle the intricate dance of communication, where curiosity leads and judgment takes a backseat, allowing our children to feel empowered rather than shamed. Role reversal becomes a tool, not just for understanding our kids but also for teaching them the value of empathy in their own interactions.
Lastly, we broach the complex issue of theft, emphasizing the need for ethical conversations from the sandbox to the courtroom. By engaging our children in discussions about morality, we prepare them for the larger stage of life where right and wrong are often shades of gray. It's here, through non-judgmental dialogue and positive assumptions, that we lay the foundations for a future of ethical decision-makers. Join us on this journey of parenting with purpose, and don't forget to subscribe for more insights that strengthen our resolve and confidence as the sculptors of tomorrow's adults.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A lot of parents really want to start from the
place of corrective action andnot empathy and connection and
understanding and curiosity.
What that leads to ultimatelyis our kid really really not
wanting to bring things to us inthe future.
Because if we lead withcorrection and punishment
whether that be physicalpunishment or even just shame
(00:21):
then we close our kid off to theidea that we're a safe person
to bring things to.
It's a brand new day.
Hey, wake up every morning andsay it's a brand new day.
Hey, take a good day.
Make it great.
Hello and welcome to the WholeParent Podcast.
(00:44):
I'm John at Whole Parent on allthe social medias and you are
listening to part two of ourepisode All About Lying.
If you didn't listen to thelast episode yet, I really
really encourage you to go backand listen to that episode first
.
Why?
Because this episode wasoriginally recorded as a really
really long, too long to post onmy podcast episode about lying.
(01:08):
So the things that you're goingto hear in this are going to
refer back to that as if you'vealready heard it.
I highly recommend, if youhaven't done it yet, just go
back, listen to the very lastepisode that I published Kids
Lying, part One or whatever.
I wind up titling it by then.
I'm kind of tipping my handhere that I don't always know
(01:28):
the titles until the nightbefore and I have a eureka
moment and then publish a title.
But go back and listen to thelast episode, whatever it's
titled Part One about Kids Lyingso that you can hear all of the
good things in that episodeabout younger kids.
Even if you have an older kidand you're like, no, I really
want to listen to this episodebecause my kid is older they're
10, they're 11, they're 9,whatever.
I still recommend you go backand you listen to the episode on
(01:51):
three-year-olds andsix-year-olds, because I may say
something in there that really,really helps you understand how
you've gotten to the point thatyou're at right now with your
kid, and then come back andlisten to this episode because
we have an absolute gem for youtoday.
I really, really enjoyed makingthis episode.
I really enjoyed talking aboutthis because this combines so
(02:12):
many aspects of what I thinkbecoming a whole parent to whole
children is.
We talk about older kids, somuch of my platform talks about
toddlers, which I think isreally important when you need
to treat toddlers with respectand dignity and love and
belonging and give them rightsand treat them as full humans
and all of that.
But really I don't often get totalk about older kids and it's
(02:33):
really, really exciting for meto do that, and I mentioned a
bunch of places in this episodeabout my book and I'm not going
to do a mid-roll in this episode.
You're just going to hear fromme at the very end of the
episode and I'm going to talk toyou a little bit about getting
on the email list at that point.
If you haven't already donethat yet, you can do that at the
link in the description.
But if you are excited for thebook, if you are listening, if
(02:55):
you wind up listening to thisepisode and you go, wow, I
really enjoy this approach toparenting and I want to know
more and I want to.
You know, I want the whole book.
The best place that you can gois my email list, because my
email list will be the firstpeople who have any access to
the book at all.
There are going to be the onesthat get the link on the very
first day to pre-order that whenit becomes available, and
(03:17):
they'll probably get somebonuses as well, maybe some
special chapters orconversations about it.
So if you are interested inthat book, make sure that you
are on that whole parent emaillist again in the description in
the link right above.
But without further ado, let'sget into part two about lying
and kids.
Our third question comes fromJessica, a name that I'm partial
(03:37):
to because I married a Jessicawho says I'm in a tough spot
with my nine-year-old son.
I recently found a toy in hispocket that I'm almost certain
he stole from the store.
When I asked him about it hedenied taking it and insists
that he quote found it somewhere.
I'm totally at a loss for whatto do.
Jessica, I am with you.
(03:58):
I have been there with my ownkids.
I have been there with so manyparents for whom they struggle
with this.
This has been a topic thatwe've covered.
On group coaching and themembership.
This has been a topic that I'vecovered in DMs with parents who
are in the membership Emails,parents that I know personally
in my own life.
(04:18):
This is super, super common.
This happens.
Kids do stuff like this and howwe respond matters a whole lot.
Do we wish that this type ofstuff didn't happen?
Of course.
Do we wish that kids never didanything problematic.
Maybe it would make parenting aheck of a lot easier sometimes,
(04:38):
but there are some things andI'm going to walk you through a
three-step process that I havewalked parents through when they
encounter this type of thingthat I think can really really
help in situations like this.
And before I even get into thefirst three steps, usually my
step one is give yourself somuch grace and give yourself so
much like Affirmation thatyou're doing a good job as a
(05:02):
parent.
This is not a signal or a signthat you're not doing a good job
as a parent.
This is just a thing that kidsdo and and how we address it.
That's how our parenting ismeasured, not based on.
Hey, these are the behaviorsthat our kids do, you know, when
they're exploring the world andtrying to figure out where they
, where they reside in the world.
That's not why or how we shouldought to be judged as parents.
(05:24):
The way that we are judged asparents is how we parent, how we
Respond to these things, andI'll remind everyone on this
call that, like you know, one ofthe greatest parenting
educators of all time, myfavorite parenting educator, who
I've mentioned probably toomany times in the recent
Episodes because I just finishedhis biography, maybe a month
ago, fred Rogers.
(05:45):
One of the things that'shighlighted in the in the
biography with his own kids ishow they had.
He had this Really well-behavedgood you know kids typical good
kids that you think about allthrough their early childhood
and then they felt the freedomto explore the world when they
were in teenagers and some ofthe stuff they did is like crazy
out there.
(06:05):
You know, they got arrested.
I think one of them got a DUIor or I don't remember if he got
a DUI or he wrecked the carwhile he was drunk and you know
Fred like screamed at him aboutit.
They were the.
His wife found an entire likeMarijuana factory in their in
their basement and like the 19whatever this was in 70s, 60s I
(06:27):
don't even know when he wasraising kids, but like when his
kids are in high school, theywere like growing pot in the
basement.
There's so many things that hiskids did like if if we're
judging people on theirparenting like, this guy was
like the great parenting wiseguru, like Literally hung out
with all of the parentingexperts that you think about.
(06:48):
He was friends with dr Spock.
He was friends with EricErickson.
He was friends with MargaretI'm forgetting her last name,
which is so bad because she'slike the key person, but I just
I don't have her name pulled upin front of me right now the
person who he worked on mrRogers neighborhood with, who
was like the psychologist fromPittsburgh.
He knew everything there was toknow about parenting that was
available to him at the time andprobably Intuited a lot of the
(07:10):
stuff that we know now throughfMRI scans and Just brain
development stuff that hecouldn't have possibly known
back then.
But he had just kind ofintuitively interpreted the
world in the same way.
So much of the stuff that hesays is like crazy that he was
saying in the 50s and 60s and70s that we think about it today
and we're like, oh my gosh,like he was so right.
Even he had struggles where hiskids did stuff that was just
(07:31):
kind of out of bounds and andnot in line with his values.
I mean, the guy was a freakingpastor like an M Diff Right.
He had a masters of divinity.
That degree is a very difficultdegree to get.
I can tell you from personalexperience there's a lot of
morality driven in there.
It doesn't matter, right, ourkids will do stuff like this,
and so do not feel bad as aparent if you have a kid who's
(07:52):
done this or or any otherproblematic thing.
Right, kids do this stuff.
Sometimes it's a cry for help,sometimes it's exploring the
world, sometimes it's trying tofigure things out.
That's okay, we will getthrough it.
It's not the things that yourkids do, it's how you respond,
right.
And so how are we going torespond to this?
Number one, two and three?
So, number one we're going toopen a dialogue that's based
(08:14):
first in empathy and not inretribution and not in
punishment.
So a lot of parents really wantto start from the place of
corrective action and notempathy and connection and
understanding and curiosity.
And so what?
What that leads to ultimately,is our kid Really really not
wanting to bring things to us inthe future?
Because if we lead withcorrection and punishment
(08:37):
whether that be, you know,physical punishment or even just
shame or, you know, belittlingour kids, telling them that
we're disappointed in them, anyof these kind of attempts at
Making our kid feel bad or orfeel remorse or feel regret for
what they've done Then we closeour kid off to the idea that
we're a safe person to bringthings to, and I think a lot of
(08:58):
people don't really Understandthis.
They're like, no, I got to be,you know, the iron fist for my
kid and I got to hold themaccountable.
That, to an extent that that'strue.
You have to hold boundaries.
Yes, there may be times that weleverage consequences, but
those should always be actionsthat are taken later.
Right, those are things that we, that we can do, especially
(09:19):
with a nine-year-old,collaboratively later on and
we're gonna talk exactly how todo that in part two.
But we have to start with akind of hey, you're not gonna be
in trouble, no matter what youdid with me.
And there may be consequences.
We may have to take somerestorative actions We'll talk
about that too, but you're notgoing to be in trouble for it.
And One of the things that mywife says all the time that
(09:39):
really just reminds me thatshe's an Incredible parent a lot
of times, without even thinkingabout it just intuitively such
an amazing parent is that shetold me really, really early in
our Relationship when I was like, oh man, he's gonna be in
trouble for that about my oldestwhen he was maybe two or one
and a half or something.
About he's gonna be in troubleif he does that.
Again, my wife said no, he'snot, because there's no trouble
in our house.
If you need to just take thataway from this episode there's
(10:03):
no trouble in our house, you cansteal that, you can use that in
any way you want with your ownkids.
She said there's no trouble inour house because we always want
our kids to bring anything thatthey're struggling with to us.
And I was like man, that's soprofound.
If there's no trouble in yourhouse, then even if there's a
consequence or something likethat, if your kid parents are
(10:24):
gonna be disappointed you andmad at you and and punish you
for it, like that's solife-affirming and that's so
empathetic and intimate andallows for freedom.
And so, yeah, maybe yournine-year-old stole the toy from
the, stole the toy from thestore probably did right.
We're not.
We don't have to cue the lieand like we were talking about
(10:45):
with the three-year-old, butthey probably did, there's
probably.
That's.
That's obviously the simplestexplanation.
You may even know for a factthat they did right, but if you
lead with how you're going totry and correct that or make
them feel bad about that or makethem feel, you know, ashamed of
(11:05):
themselves.
For that I promise you you'renot gonna set yourself up for
For hearing the next time whensomething is potentially
problematic and this is anexample that I use in the book,
but it's also an example thatI've used with parents countless
times.
You want your kid to be the kid.
You know I say this about all.
You know I'm using this examplebut but you could use this with
(11:27):
any any example of this alcoholrelated driving deaths or
Driving deaths with alcohol asthe as the cause Was when I was
in high school, like the secondleading cause of death among
teenagers and young adults.
I think now, unfortunately, it'slike the third leading cause,
and I say unfortunately becauseI don't think that the numbers
(11:50):
have decreased all that much,but it's just that mental health
and overdose have skyrocketed.
So suicide and overdose are sohigh that it's now dropped down
in the rankings, which isproblematic and traumatic in its
own way and a lot of what Italk about in this platform.
But one of the fundamentalpieces of the reasons I should
say that kids will Be willing todrive under the influence or
(12:14):
get in a car with a person whothey know to be drunk is Is
because they're terrified ofpicking up their phone and
calling their parents.
Because what is my parents?
What are they gonna do?
Am I gonna be grounded for thenext six months?
They don't even know I'm here,right?
They don't know that I'mdrinking at this party.
They don't know that my friendis drinking.
Are they gonna tell my friends?
Parents, like, what's gonnahappen if they come here and
(12:36):
pick me up from this party?
And the answer is Probably alot for most kids.
They, probably being raised inan authoritarian household where
punishment was the primary wayof correcting behavior, would
have been punished quiteseverely for that.
Now Maybe their parents wouldhave made an exception because
they wanted to encourage them tonot engage in those high-risk
(12:59):
behaviors.
But the kid doesn't know thatin the moment, most six year old
, 16 year olds, do not possessthe cognitive capacity To do
those mental gymnastics.
Oh, my parents would muchrather me call them than not.
No, they just would ratheravoid trouble at all cost, and
by at all cost I mean up to an,including Going into a car with
(13:19):
a person who's clearly drunk inorder to get home.
They would much rather do that,and it's partially because the
part of their brain that is ableto assess risk reward benefit
is Still very underdeveloped asa teenager.
They don't have a real way.
This is why teenagers canengage in such high-risk
activities.
It's why teenagers tend to beworse drivers than than people
(13:41):
who are older, just as ademographic, their risk reward
center has not caught up to therest of their development.
It also is why, unfortunately,so many Militaries around the
world tend to really want torecruit really young people is
because their risk rewardcenters are still developing and
they are More than willing todo Extremely high-risk things if
(14:04):
they are in some way rewardedfor it, and so, because of this,
kids are willing to do thesethings.
If your kid grows up with thefundamental understanding that,
no matter what happens, you aregoing to approach them with
empathy and understanding first,totally non Judgmentally if you
stole it, if you didn't stealit, I'm not going to think of
(14:25):
you any differently if theyunderstand at the deepest core
level that that is how you aregoing to approach it with them,
that you are, in other words,always on their team, always
seeking for their flourishing,always on their team, then they
will be much more likely to tellyou the truth.
Kids feel that they will get introuble, that they will receive
punishments, that they willreceive harm as the result,
(14:48):
whether that's social harm,psychological harm, emotional
harm or physical pain as aresult of Misbehavior or or bad
decisions.
Those kids do not reveal thosethings they will.
They will literally go to thegrave, hiding from their parents
, and I know and talk about thisat length in the book, but I
know so many cases of kids whojust engaged in horribly
(15:08):
dangerous things.
I probably Engaged in some stuffthat I shouldn't have, and my
parents, by and large, did havea pretty good and open
communication system with me.
But even so, you know, we'renever going to be able to
completely eliminate this in ourkids, but we want to do our
absolute best and so engagingthis topic, not with judgment,
not with you're bad for doingthis, but literally
(15:30):
non-judgmentally, just withcuriosity, hey, I just I want to
know what's going on.
I want to know, like, did yousee it?
And you thought like it was agood idea to take it?
Like I've been there, how wouldyou engage it that way?
Right, like, put yourself intheir shoes?
I remember when I was a kid andI did this and you know this.
This happened as a result, ornothing happened.
You know, nobody ever caught me.
I just kept it.
(15:51):
I still have it to this day.
Whatever the thing is right, behonest and be open.
Understand that you have to bethe person for whom they can
bring it, to whom they feel theycan bring anything.
So that's number one.
Number two, equally important,is to, when you engage this with
(16:11):
curiosity, to put them in aplace where they feel like they
have some agency and power,because one of the things that
kids do really really well isthat they hide and manipulate
things when they feel that theyhave no power.
We talked about that in thefirst example, but this is even
more true with older kids, kidswho feel like they are.
They are going to be at themercy of their parents, which
(16:33):
might be, again, punishments,severe correction.
Those, those kids are going tobe more likely to hide those
behaviors than if they feel likemy kid.
My parents are going to give mean opportunity to explain
myself and do the right thing.
As a result, or to do somethingrestorative.
As a result, which we'll talkabout here in a second, those
kids are going to be way, waymore likely to actually engage
(16:55):
you right, and so one of theways that I like to do this is
what's called role reversal, andbasically you draw up a
hypothetical situation where youallow your child to be in the
role of a parent and this doesnot work.
If you like, try and pivot tothis in the moment you find out
your kid stole something, andthen, 10 seconds later, you
pivot to this idea.
Well, what would you do?
Separate that out, give themsome time, give them some.
(17:17):
You know you don't have tocorrect any of this stuff unless
they, like, stole a bar, bar, agold from St Knox, from St Knox
, from Fort Knox, and so youknow the government's trying to
come and get them or something,or they stole something from
someone who you know, whateverlike.
If it's a store, they can, theycan go three days before you
figure out a corrective actionfor this, in all likelihood
right.
And so because of that, let'sapproach this subtly and with
(17:39):
some grace and with somepatience, and not just go all in
right, it's not going to.
We're going to be emotional,we're probably going to be
drawing on our own childhoodexperiences of being caught and
feeling ashamed of ourselves,and so, because of that, we want
to engage this veryintentionally.
So come back to your kid at adifferent time and say, hey, so
I've been thinking about this,or, you know, I just came up
with another parent that I wastalking to and they told me this
(18:01):
story.
I'm just wondering what hewould do.
I'm interested in theperspective of you as a nine
year old.
So their kid, you could saythey're nine or 10, or even six
or seven, whatever doesn'tmatter.
So you know, say that there's akid who's seven and they take
something from a store, or theytake something.
You can vary it a little bit.
You don't have to give themexactly their situation, but
they took something from afriend or whatever.
(18:23):
What do you think in the parentfound out?
What do you think that theparent should do in this case?
Like, what do you, what wouldyou do if you were their parent?
I kid you not, in these moments, if you are able to do this in
any sort of way, your kid willgive you everything in that
moment and not they'll give youeverything and they'll like,
break down and cry and tell youand confess to everything.
(18:44):
They will tell you exactly howto approach them.
They will.
They will tell you exactly whatthey need to hear Because
ultimately they, whether theyknow what they did is
problematic or whether they'retrying to figure out whether it
was right or wrong.
When you put them in a placewhere they're not at risk
anymore, then they all of asudden can come up with amazing
yeah, you know what?
(19:04):
I think that my you know, ifthis is this a kid that you know
in your life, I think that theparent should just go to them
and say I'm not mad at you, butwe need to give this back and
you need to have one weekrestriction from your Nintendo
switch or whatever.
And you might think like my kidwould never do that, my kid
would never engage in that way.
Give them the autonomy.
(19:24):
Then, at that point, say and ifyou ever did that, what do you
think we should do with you?
So now that they've had anopportunity to speak outside of
themselves, now you can givethem the opportunity to, then I
don't want to say confess, butto give you what, how they think
that they would be bestcorrected in this situation or
connected with.
(19:45):
Well, I'd want you to ask mewhy I did it.
Okay, well, have you everstolen anything?
I know that we were talkingabout that toy, that that kind
of seemed to mysteriously gomissing.
Do you want to tell me aboutthat?
This may feel like a bait andswitch, and if you're doing it
to be a bait and switch typething, then it is.
It also may feel incrediblyempowering to your child.
If you're doing it to empoweryour child, they can read you
(20:07):
super well.
In some ways Kids can readintention often not always, but
often and really offering themthis role where they get to have
say and collaboration in theprocess, that is, is going to
give them so much agency thatthey feel like you know what I
can do this, and oftentimes kidswill come up with things that
(20:31):
feel kind of beyond what youmight think.
My cat just walked in behind meand you guys see that she just
pushed open the door and shedoes whatever she wants.
Cats are so bold, they're liketoddlers, except for in some
ways way smarter and in someways really not as smart.
I'm kind of frustrated at mycat right now because she's been
peeing on my basement carpetAnyway, had to install a door.
(20:52):
It's a whole thing All right.
So how do we end this segmentwith this nine year old let's?
Let's kind of wrap it up here,because I know we're already
over time as far as how long Ilike for my episodes to be
versus how long they actuallywind up being how we.
How I want to end here is tosay, once we've gotten through
this collaborative process, asit relates to discipline, there
may be consequences involved,whatever, always, always, always
(21:14):
.
With lying, with stealing,which in this case we're talking
about, both right With harmingsomeone else, with cheating.
Our goal is to figure out arestorative solution, and if you
are like I don't know how to dorestorative I've never had
restorative modeled for me thatmeans that you're going to have
to be that much more intentionalabout really doing yourself
(21:37):
work and looking for whatrestoration looks like.
And so what does restoration,when you steal something from a
store, look like?
Maybe it means we're going togo to that store and we're going
to give it back.
Maybe it means we're going togo and we're going to pay for it
.
Maybe it means, in addition topaying for it, we're going to
(21:57):
just walk around the store andwe're going to see if there's a
couple things that we can putback into place where they were
out of place, and just trying.
You know, we know thatsometimes stuff at stores can
get hectic or you know, hey,we're going to be really really
kind to you know the workers atthe store, because we know that
probably this is going to causesomebody an issue related to
this.
(22:18):
Whatever it is, the goal is finda way that this becomes a
positive scenario for your kidwhere they can look back and
they can go yeah, maybe I didsomething that could cause harm.
Maybe your kid doesn't knowthat it can cause harm.
Maybe, after you get to thatdiscipline stage where you're
talking to them collaborativelyand you're giving them agency
and autonomy, your kid says oh,I don't think parents should do
(22:38):
anything, there's no problemwith stealing.
Okay, you get curious, askquestions.
Wow, so like, is it okay tosteal from people or just stores
?
Like what if somebody stolesomething from you, would that
be okay?
Like you think that this isobvious to kids?
It's not.
You have to understand that eventhe concept of theft in our
(22:59):
Western mindset this seems likea very cut and dry thing.
Like there are cultures out inthe world that you may not know
about, that you may not have ahistorical understanding of
where, if you leave somethingoutside unprotected, that's not
theft, that's just finding Right, like I don't want to put too
fine a point on this, but like,basically the entire museum
(23:22):
system in the Western world istheft, right, like, go to the
British Museum, like everythingthere did not belong to them and
nobody paid for.
I don't want to say everything,but the majority of things like
this is really important to youknow, the people of X, y and Z.
You know country.
This is like an artifact fromwherever in the world.
Yeah, and we stole it, right?
(23:44):
So, like there's, the concept oftheft is like it's not as clear
as you think that it is, andkids need to actually bear this
out and have these conversations.
If you just think that, justsaying, well, it's wrong, and
I'll tell you why it's wrong, etcetera, et cetera, et cetera,
yeah, maybe that's a helpfultool.
Often it's way more helpful forkids to come to that on their
own and to process through.
You know, okay, well, what ifyou know if everybody stole the
(24:07):
store would have to go tobusiness?
Then we wouldn't be able to buygroceries, whatever.
Right, like, I don't knowexactly how it's going to go.
You're a smart adult.
You can figure it out andprocess it through with your kid
, as long as you, that there'snothing expected of you in this
as a parent.
You're just processing throughthis with a kid.
It who knows how thisconversation is going to go.
Have the confidence to have itanyway.
(24:29):
I promise you are more thanable and more than ready to have
this conversation with yournine year old.
You've been a parent for atleast nine years.
You've figured it out this far.
You're going to figure this outtoo, and when you do this and
when you engage in this way andthis collaborative teaching way
with your child, that may, yes,include some form of consequence
, probably, that your kid isgoing to offer up to you.
(24:52):
I hope that your kid will offerup to you.
Hey, maybe this is somethingthat we should do, but it's
ultimately seeking restoration.
Then, at 16, at 18, when wehave the big ethical problems
come up, the real big ethicalproblems, the real big ethical
dilemmas, not the.
I took this $5 thing andprobably the store is going to
write it off and it's not goingto even be known.
(25:13):
Right, there's like lossmetrics built into most stores.
It's probably going into somecorporate slash fund.
Anyway, I'm not trying to likebe some sort of crazy person
here, but, like you, understandwhat I'm saying.
I don't think that stealingthings from stores is right.
I don't want my kids to do itand I don't do it myself.
But what are the real stakeshere?
Probably not very significant.
There will be real stakes foryour kids later with so many
(25:36):
things that they do.
What does it look like when yourkid is considering, you know,
buying a performance enhancingsubstance or something like that
, whether that's at all, or ormaybe it's, you know, some sort
of steroids or something likethat, because they're in, you
know, the high level athlete orwhatever.
Those things can have massive,massive impact on their future.
(25:57):
You want them to think throughthese things that are small so
that they can learn to thinkthrough things that are big, and
you can be a great partner inthat, as long as you approach it
non-judgmentally, as long asyou give them the agency in that
process, as long as you assumethe best of them.
Ultimately, that's what all ofthis is about.
If we assume that athree-year-old is trying to
manipulate us and coerce us bynot brushing their teeth, if we
(26:18):
think that a six-year-old or athree-year-old trying to do that
, if you think that asix-year-old is just trying to
manipulate you and make youthink a certain thing and you
just you know they're just beingnaughty.
If you assume that about them,then they're going to live up to
that expectation that you levelonto them.
If you instead approach yourthree-year-old, six-year-old,
nine-year-old with theperspective of, hey, I'm
(26:39):
assuming the best of you and Ijust want to understand and I
want to help you learn and I'malways on your team and let's
figure this out together, thenactually these moments become
the best moments of parenting.
These are the moments that yourkids will remember and these
are the moments that they'llreflect back on and go.
I had great parents.
That's the truth, right, likeall the fun stuff that you do.
(26:59):
I hope that your kids rememberthat they probably will not
remember most of it.
All the enjoyable experiencesthat your kids have, I hope that
they remember them.
They may not, but the way inwhich you showed up huge in
these moments and you just gavethem the respect and autonomy
and you walk through it withthem and you challenge and you
were on a day.
I don't know how to have thisconversation either.
(27:21):
Let's just figure it outtogether.
That's where your kids aregoing to go.
Wow, my mom, my dad, they didtheir work and it mattered a lot
to me.
So, with that being the case, Ihope that each and every one of
you has learned something inthis episode about how to handle
lying, whether that's a threeyear old or a six year old or a
nine year old, that you mightunderstand why kids lie a little
(27:42):
bit more.
Some of it's developmental,some of it's totally
subconscious and not evenanything.
Some of it's to avoidpunishment.
And how do we do that?
How do we navigate that withyour kid?
I hope that you've learnedsomething about that, and if you
want to know more about allthings, whole parent, like I
said, that email list is one ofthe best places to do it All
right, here we are at the end ofthe episode and actually the
(28:04):
end of two episodes that we havefinally made up to the very end
of our two part series online.
I really enjoyed doing theseepisodes and I love talking
about this stuff.
If you feel like you'reconnecting with whole parent I
cannot emphasize enough Go tothat link in the description
below join the email list.
It's the place where you'regoing to find out all of the
upcoming events and things thatI'm doing and to find out how
(28:27):
you can be more connected withthe whole parent platform, how
you can join the whole parentnation, as we say, and raise
resilient kids.
One other little plug that I'mgoing to give here is that if
you haven't rated or reviewedthis podcast yet, please, please
, be willing to do that.
You know, the more that you canshare this on your social
medias, the more that you canprovide a rating and a review to
(28:49):
whatever podcast platformyou're listening to.
You Spotify people, you'retrying to catch up.
You guys heard me a coupleepisodes ago where I said that
Spotify was behind Applepodcasts on the ratings.
You guys got to get, got to get, got to catch up.
So we'll gamify this a littlebit.
Spotify, you'll get a specialcall out on Spotify.
If you are one of the peoplewho helps push the Spotify
ratings up above the Applepodcast ratings and Apple
(29:10):
podcast people, you know thatmeans you guys have to catch up
as well.
If you, if you let it let up atall, you guys are going to get
passed up by those spot thoseSpotify folks, because they are
rating it like crazy right nowafter I called them out a couple
of weeks ago.
So if you want to help us atwhole parent.
If you want to make sure thatthis episode and all of the
episodes reaches many parents aspossible so that they can raise
(29:33):
resilient kids and and do sowith confidence, make sure that
you go and on whatever podcastplatform you're listening to,
and rate and review this episode.
I'm so excited about next week.
We have so many new things totalk about.
I have kind of a new format forone of the episodes next week,
so get excited about thatalready.
I'm planning that.
I'm already starting to mapthat out to record it, but until
(29:56):
then this has been the wholeparent podcast.
Thanks for listening.
A lot of parents really want to start from the
place of corrective action andnot empathy and connection and
understanding and curiosity.
What that leads to ultimatelyis our kid really really not
wanting to bring things to us inthe future.
Because if we lead withcorrection and punishment
whether that be physicalpunishment or even just shame
(00:21):
then we close our kid off to theidea that we're a safe person
to bring things to.
It's a brand new day.
Hey, wake up every morning andsay it's a brand new day.
Hey, take a good day.
Make it great.
Hello and welcome to the WholeParent Podcast.
(00:44):
I'm John at Whole Parent on allthe social medias and you are
listening to part two of ourepisode All About Lying.
If you didn't listen to thelast episode yet, I really
really encourage you to go backand listen to that episode first
.
Why?
Because this episode wasoriginally recorded as a really
really long, too long to post onmy podcast episode about lying.
(01:08):
So the things that you're goingto hear in this are going to
refer back to that as if you'vealready heard it.
I highly recommend, if youhaven't done it yet, just go
back, listen to the very lastepisode that I published Kids
Lying, part One or whatever.
I wind up titling it by then.
I'm kind of tipping my handhere that I don't always know
(01:28):
the titles until the nightbefore and I have a eureka
moment and then publish a title.
But go back and listen to thelast episode, whatever it's
titled Part One about Kids Lyingso that you can hear all of the
good things in that episodeabout younger kids.
Even if you have an older kidand you're like, no, I really
want to listen to this episodebecause my kid is older they're
10, they're 11, they're 9,whatever.
I still recommend you go backand you listen to the episode on
(01:51):
three-year-olds andsix-year-olds, because I may say
something in there that really,really helps you understand how
you've gotten to the point thatyou're at right now with your
kid, and then come back andlisten to this episode because
we have an absolute gem for youtoday.
I really, really enjoyed makingthis episode.
I really enjoyed talking aboutthis because this combines so
(02:12):
many aspects of what I thinkbecoming a whole parent to whole
children is.
We talk about older kids, somuch of my platform talks about
toddlers, which I think isreally important when you need
to treat toddlers with respectand dignity and love and
belonging and give them rightsand treat them as full humans
and all of that.
But really I don't often get totalk about older kids and it's
(02:33):
really, really exciting for meto do that, and I mentioned a
bunch of places in this episodeabout my book and I'm not going
to do a mid-roll in this episode.
You're just going to hear fromme at the very end of the
episode and I'm going to talk toyou a little bit about getting
on the email list at that point.
If you haven't already donethat yet, you can do that at the
link in the description.
But if you are excited for thebook, if you are listening, if
(02:55):
you wind up listening to thisepisode and you go, wow, I
really enjoy this approach toparenting and I want to know
more and I want to.
You know, I want the whole book.
The best place that you can gois my email list, because my
email list will be the firstpeople who have any access to
the book at all.
There are going to be the onesthat get the link on the very
first day to pre-order that whenit becomes available, and
(03:17):
they'll probably get somebonuses as well, maybe some
special chapters orconversations about it.
So if you are interested inthat book, make sure that you
are on that whole parent emaillist again in the description in
the link right above.
But without further ado, let'sget into part two about lying
and kids.
Our third question comes fromJessica, a name that I'm partial
(03:37):
to because I married a Jessicawho says I'm in a tough spot
with my nine-year-old son.
I recently found a toy in hispocket that I'm almost certain
he stole from the store.
When I asked him about it hedenied taking it and insists
that he quote found it somewhere.
I'm totally at a loss for whatto do.
Jessica, I am with you.
(03:58):
I have been there with my ownkids.
I have been there with so manyparents for whom they struggle
with this.
This has been a topic thatwe've covered.
On group coaching and themembership.
This has been a topic that I'vecovered in DMs with parents who
are in the membership Emails,parents that I know personally
in my own life.
(04:18):
This is super, super common.
This happens.
Kids do stuff like this and howwe respond matters a whole lot.
Do we wish that this type ofstuff didn't happen?
Of course.
Do we wish that kids never didanything problematic.
Maybe it would make parenting aheck of a lot easier sometimes,
(04:38):
but there are some things andI'm going to walk you through a
three-step process that I havewalked parents through when they
encounter this type of thingthat I think can really really
help in situations like this.
And before I even get into thefirst three steps, usually my
step one is give yourself somuch grace and give yourself so
much like Affirmation thatyou're doing a good job as a
(05:02):
parent.
This is not a signal or a signthat you're not doing a good job
as a parent.
This is just a thing that kidsdo and and how we address it.
That's how our parenting ismeasured, not based on.
Hey, these are the behaviorsthat our kids do, you know, when
they're exploring the world andtrying to figure out where they
, where they reside in the world.
That's not why or how we shouldought to be judged as parents.
(05:24):
The way that we are judged asparents is how we parent, how we
Respond to these things, andI'll remind everyone on this
call that, like you know, one ofthe greatest parenting
educators of all time, myfavorite parenting educator, who
I've mentioned probably toomany times in the recent
Episodes because I just finishedhis biography, maybe a month
ago, fred Rogers.
(05:45):
One of the things that'shighlighted in the in the
biography with his own kids ishow they had.
He had this Really well-behavedgood you know kids typical good
kids that you think about allthrough their early childhood
and then they felt the freedomto explore the world when they
were in teenagers and some ofthe stuff they did is like crazy
out there.
(06:05):
You know, they got arrested.
I think one of them got a DUIor or I don't remember if he got
a DUI or he wrecked the carwhile he was drunk and you know
Fred like screamed at him aboutit.
They were the.
His wife found an entire likeMarijuana factory in their in
their basement and like the 19whatever this was in 70s, 60s I
(06:27):
don't even know when he wasraising kids, but like when his
kids are in high school, theywere like growing pot in the
basement.
There's so many things that hiskids did like if if we're
judging people on theirparenting like, this guy was
like the great parenting wiseguru, like Literally hung out
with all of the parentingexperts that you think about.
(06:48):
He was friends with dr Spock.
He was friends with EricErickson.
He was friends with MargaretI'm forgetting her last name,
which is so bad because she'slike the key person, but I just
I don't have her name pulled upin front of me right now the
person who he worked on mrRogers neighborhood with, who
was like the psychologist fromPittsburgh.
He knew everything there was toknow about parenting that was
available to him at the time andprobably Intuited a lot of the
(07:10):
stuff that we know now throughfMRI scans and Just brain
development stuff that hecouldn't have possibly known
back then.
But he had just kind ofintuitively interpreted the
world in the same way.
So much of the stuff that hesays is like crazy that he was
saying in the 50s and 60s and70s that we think about it today
and we're like, oh my gosh,like he was so right.
Even he had struggles where hiskids did stuff that was just
(07:31):
kind of out of bounds and andnot in line with his values.
I mean, the guy was a freakingpastor like an M Diff Right.
He had a masters of divinity.
That degree is a very difficultdegree to get.
I can tell you from personalexperience there's a lot of
morality driven in there.
It doesn't matter, right, ourkids will do stuff like this,
and so do not feel bad as aparent if you have a kid who's
(07:52):
done this or or any otherproblematic thing.
Right, kids do this stuff.
Sometimes it's a cry for help,sometimes it's exploring the
world, sometimes it's trying tofigure things out.
That's okay, we will getthrough it.
It's not the things that yourkids do, it's how you respond,
right.
And so how are we going torespond to this?
Number one, two and three?
So, number one we're going toopen a dialogue that's based
(08:14):
first in empathy and not inretribution and not in
punishment.
So a lot of parents really wantto start from the place of
corrective action and notempathy and connection and
understanding and curiosity.
And so what?
What that leads to ultimately,is our kid Really really not
wanting to bring things to us inthe future?
Because if we lead withcorrection and punishment
(08:37):
whether that be, you know,physical punishment or even just
shame or, you know, belittlingour kids, telling them that
we're disappointed in them, anyof these kind of attempts at
Making our kid feel bad or orfeel remorse or feel regret for
what they've done Then we closeour kid off to the idea that
we're a safe person to bringthings to, and I think a lot of
(08:58):
people don't really Understandthis.
They're like, no, I got to be,you know, the iron fist for my
kid and I got to hold themaccountable.
That, to an extent that that'strue.
You have to hold boundaries.
Yes, there may be times that weleverage consequences, but
those should always be actionsthat are taken later.
Right, those are things that we, that we can do, especially
(09:19):
with a nine-year-old,collaboratively later on and
we're gonna talk exactly how todo that in part two.
But we have to start with akind of hey, you're not gonna be
in trouble, no matter what youdid with me.
And there may be consequences.
We may have to take somerestorative actions We'll talk
about that too, but you're notgoing to be in trouble for it.
And One of the things that mywife says all the time that
(09:39):
really just reminds me thatshe's an Incredible parent a lot
of times, without even thinkingabout it just intuitively such
an amazing parent is that shetold me really, really early in
our Relationship when I was like, oh man, he's gonna be in
trouble for that about my oldestwhen he was maybe two or one
and a half or something.
About he's gonna be in troubleif he does that.
Again, my wife said no, he'snot, because there's no trouble
in our house.
If you need to just take thataway from this episode there's
(10:03):
no trouble in our house, you cansteal that, you can use that in
any way you want with your ownkids.
She said there's no trouble inour house because we always want
our kids to bring anything thatthey're struggling with to us.
And I was like man, that's soprofound.
If there's no trouble in yourhouse, then even if there's a
consequence or something likethat, if your kid parents are
(10:24):
gonna be disappointed you andmad at you and and punish you
for it, like that's solife-affirming and that's so
empathetic and intimate andallows for freedom.
And so, yeah, maybe yournine-year-old stole the toy from
the, stole the toy from thestore probably did right.
We're not.
We don't have to cue the lieand like we were talking about
(10:45):
with the three-year-old, butthey probably did, there's
probably.
That's.
That's obviously the simplestexplanation.
You may even know for a factthat they did right, but if you
lead with how you're going totry and correct that or make
them feel bad about that or makethem feel, you know, ashamed of
(11:05):
themselves.
For that I promise you you'renot gonna set yourself up for
For hearing the next time whensomething is potentially
problematic and this is anexample that I use in the book,
but it's also an example thatI've used with parents countless
times.
You want your kid to be the kid.
You know I say this about all.
You know I'm using this examplebut but you could use this with
(11:27):
any any example of this alcoholrelated driving deaths or
Driving deaths with alcohol asthe as the cause Was when I was
in high school, like the secondleading cause of death among
teenagers and young adults.
I think now, unfortunately, it'slike the third leading cause,
and I say unfortunately becauseI don't think that the numbers
(11:50):
have decreased all that much,but it's just that mental health
and overdose have skyrocketed.
So suicide and overdose are sohigh that it's now dropped down
in the rankings, which isproblematic and traumatic in its
own way and a lot of what Italk about in this platform.
But one of the fundamentalpieces of the reasons I should
say that kids will Be willing todrive under the influence or
(12:14):
get in a car with a person whothey know to be drunk is Is
because they're terrified ofpicking up their phone and
calling their parents.
Because what is my parents?
What are they gonna do?
Am I gonna be grounded for thenext six months?
They don't even know I'm here,right?
They don't know that I'mdrinking at this party.
They don't know that my friendis drinking.
Are they gonna tell my friends?
Parents, like, what's gonnahappen if they come here and
(12:36):
pick me up from this party?
And the answer is Probably alot for most kids.
They, probably being raised inan authoritarian household where
punishment was the primary wayof correcting behavior, would
have been punished quiteseverely for that.
Now Maybe their parents wouldhave made an exception because
they wanted to encourage them tonot engage in those high-risk
(12:59):
behaviors.
But the kid doesn't know thatin the moment, most six year old
, 16 year olds, do not possessthe cognitive capacity To do
those mental gymnastics.
Oh, my parents would muchrather me call them than not.
No, they just would ratheravoid trouble at all cost, and
by at all cost I mean up to an,including Going into a car with
(13:19):
a person who's clearly drunk inorder to get home.
They would much rather do that,and it's partially because the
part of their brain that is ableto assess risk reward benefit
is Still very underdeveloped asa teenager.
They don't have a real way.
This is why teenagers canengage in such high-risk
activities.
It's why teenagers tend to beworse drivers than than people
(13:41):
who are older, just as ademographic, their risk reward
center has not caught up to therest of their development.
It also is why, unfortunately,so many Militaries around the
world tend to really want torecruit really young people is
because their risk rewardcenters are still developing and
they are More than willing todo Extremely high-risk things if
(14:04):
they are in some way rewardedfor it, and so, because of this,
kids are willing to do thesethings.
If your kid grows up with thefundamental understanding that,
no matter what happens, you aregoing to approach them with
empathy and understanding first,totally non Judgmentally if you
stole it, if you didn't stealit, I'm not going to think of
(14:25):
you any differently if theyunderstand at the deepest core
level that that is how you aregoing to approach it with them,
that you are, in other words,always on their team, always
seeking for their flourishing,always on their team, then they
will be much more likely to tellyou the truth.
Kids feel that they will get introuble, that they will receive
punishments, that they willreceive harm as the result,
(14:48):
whether that's social harm,psychological harm, emotional
harm or physical pain as aresult of Misbehavior or or bad
decisions.
Those kids do not reveal thosethings they will.
They will literally go to thegrave, hiding from their parents
, and I know and talk about thisat length in the book, but I
know so many cases of kids whojust engaged in horribly
(15:08):
dangerous things.
I probably Engaged in some stuffthat I shouldn't have, and my
parents, by and large, did havea pretty good and open
communication system with me.
But even so, you know, we'renever going to be able to
completely eliminate this in ourkids, but we want to do our
absolute best and so engagingthis topic, not with judgment,
not with you're bad for doingthis, but literally
(15:30):
non-judgmentally, just withcuriosity, hey, I just I want to
know what's going on.
I want to know, like, did yousee it?
And you thought like it was agood idea to take it?
Like I've been there, how wouldyou engage it that way?
Right, like, put yourself intheir shoes?
I remember when I was a kid andI did this and you know this.
This happened as a result, ornothing happened.
You know, nobody ever caught me.
I just kept it.
(15:51):
I still have it to this day.
Whatever the thing is right, behonest and be open.
Understand that you have to bethe person for whom they can
bring it, to whom they feel theycan bring anything.
So that's number one.
Number two, equally important,is to, when you engage this with
(16:11):
curiosity, to put them in aplace where they feel like they
have some agency and power,because one of the things that
kids do really really well isthat they hide and manipulate
things when they feel that theyhave no power.
We talked about that in thefirst example, but this is even
more true with older kids, kidswho feel like they are.
They are going to be at themercy of their parents, which
(16:33):
might be, again, punishments,severe correction.
Those, those kids are going tobe more likely to hide those
behaviors than if they feel likemy kid.
My parents are going to give mean opportunity to explain
myself and do the right thing.
As a result, or to do somethingrestorative.
As a result, which we'll talkabout here in a second, those
kids are going to be way, waymore likely to actually engage
(16:55):
you right, and so one of theways that I like to do this is
what's called role reversal, andbasically you draw up a
hypothetical situation where youallow your child to be in the
role of a parent and this doesnot work.
If you like, try and pivot tothis in the moment you find out
your kid stole something, andthen, 10 seconds later, you
pivot to this idea.
Well, what would you do?
Separate that out, give themsome time, give them some.
(17:17):
You know you don't have tocorrect any of this stuff unless
they, like, stole a bar, bar, agold from St Knox, from St Knox
, from Fort Knox, and so youknow the government's trying to
come and get them or something,or they stole something from
someone who you know, whateverlike.
If it's a store, they can, theycan go three days before you
figure out a corrective actionfor this, in all likelihood
right.
And so because of that, let'sapproach this subtly and with
(17:39):
some grace and with somepatience, and not just go all in
right, it's not going to.
We're going to be emotional,we're probably going to be
drawing on our own childhoodexperiences of being caught and
feeling ashamed of ourselves,and so, because of that, we want
to engage this veryintentionally.
So come back to your kid at adifferent time and say, hey, so
I've been thinking about this,or, you know, I just came up
with another parent that I wastalking to and they told me this
(18:01):
story.
I'm just wondering what hewould do.
I'm interested in theperspective of you as a nine
year old.
So their kid, you could saythey're nine or 10, or even six
or seven, whatever doesn'tmatter.
So you know, say that there's akid who's seven and they take
something from a store, or theytake something.
You can vary it a little bit.
You don't have to give themexactly their situation, but
they took something from afriend or whatever.
(18:23):
What do you think in the parentfound out?
What do you think that theparent should do in this case?
Like, what do you, what wouldyou do if you were their parent?
I kid you not, in these moments, if you are able to do this in
any sort of way, your kid willgive you everything in that
moment and not they'll give youeverything and they'll like,
break down and cry and tell youand confess to everything.
(18:44):
They will tell you exactly howto approach them.
They will.
They will tell you exactly whatthey need to hear Because
ultimately they, whether theyknow what they did is
problematic or whether they'retrying to figure out whether it
was right or wrong.
When you put them in a placewhere they're not at risk
anymore, then they all of asudden can come up with amazing
yeah, you know what?
(19:04):
I think that my you know, ifthis is this a kid that you know
in your life, I think that theparent should just go to them
and say I'm not mad at you, butwe need to give this back and
you need to have one weekrestriction from your Nintendo
switch or whatever.
And you might think like my kidwould never do that, my kid
would never engage in that way.
Give them the autonomy.
(19:24):
Then, at that point, say and ifyou ever did that, what do you
think we should do with you?
So now that they've had anopportunity to speak outside of
themselves, now you can givethem the opportunity to, then I
don't want to say confess, butto give you what, how they think
that they would be bestcorrected in this situation or
connected with.
(19:45):
Well, I'd want you to ask mewhy I did it.
Okay, well, have you everstolen anything?
I know that we were talkingabout that toy, that that kind
of seemed to mysteriously gomissing.
Do you want to tell me aboutthat?
This may feel like a bait andswitch, and if you're doing it
to be a bait and switch typething, then it is.
It also may feel incrediblyempowering to your child.
If you're doing it to empoweryour child, they can read you
(20:07):
super well.
In some ways Kids can readintention often not always, but
often and really offering themthis role where they get to have
say and collaboration in theprocess, that is, is going to
give them so much agency thatthey feel like you know what I
can do this, and oftentimes kidswill come up with things that
(20:31):
feel kind of beyond what youmight think.
My cat just walked in behind meand you guys see that she just
pushed open the door and shedoes whatever she wants.
Cats are so bold, they're liketoddlers, except for in some
ways way smarter and in someways really not as smart.
I'm kind of frustrated at mycat right now because she's been
peeing on my basement carpetAnyway, had to install a door.
(20:52):
It's a whole thing All right.
So how do we end this segmentwith this nine year old let's?
Let's kind of wrap it up here,because I know we're already
over time as far as how long Ilike for my episodes to be
versus how long they actuallywind up being how we.
How I want to end here is tosay, once we've gotten through
this collaborative process, asit relates to discipline, there
may be consequences involved,whatever, always, always, always
(21:14):
.
With lying, with stealing,which in this case we're talking
about, both right With harmingsomeone else, with cheating.
Our goal is to figure out arestorative solution, and if you
are like I don't know how to dorestorative I've never had
restorative modeled for me thatmeans that you're going to have
to be that much more intentionalabout really doing yourself
(21:37):
work and looking for whatrestoration looks like.
And so what does restoration,when you steal something from a
store, look like?
Maybe it means we're going togo to that store and we're going
to give it back.
Maybe it means we're going togo and we're going to pay for it
.
Maybe it means, in addition topaying for it, we're going to
(21:57):
just walk around the store andwe're going to see if there's a
couple things that we can putback into place where they were
out of place, and just trying.
You know, we know thatsometimes stuff at stores can
get hectic or you know, hey,we're going to be really really
kind to you know the workers atthe store, because we know that
probably this is going to causesomebody an issue related to
this.
(22:18):
Whatever it is, the goal is finda way that this becomes a
positive scenario for your kidwhere they can look back and
they can go yeah, maybe I didsomething that could cause harm.
Maybe your kid doesn't knowthat it can cause harm.
Maybe, after you get to thatdiscipline stage where you're
talking to them collaborativelyand you're giving them agency
and autonomy, your kid says oh,I don't think parents should do
(22:38):
anything, there's no problemwith stealing.
Okay, you get curious, askquestions.
Wow, so like, is it okay tosteal from people or just stores
?
Like what if somebody stolesomething from you, would that
be okay?
Like you think that this isobvious to kids?
It's not.
You have to understand that eventhe concept of theft in our
(22:59):
Western mindset this seems likea very cut and dry thing.
Like there are cultures out inthe world that you may not know
about, that you may not have ahistorical understanding of
where, if you leave somethingoutside unprotected, that's not
theft, that's just finding Right, like I don't want to put too
fine a point on this, but like,basically the entire museum
(23:22):
system in the Western world istheft, right, like, go to the
British Museum, like everythingthere did not belong to them and
nobody paid for.
I don't want to say everything,but the majority of things like
this is really important to youknow, the people of X, y and Z.
You know country.
This is like an artifact fromwherever in the world.
Yeah, and we stole it, right?
(23:44):
So, like there's, the concept oftheft is like it's not as clear
as you think that it is, andkids need to actually bear this
out and have these conversations.
If you just think that, justsaying, well, it's wrong, and
I'll tell you why it's wrong, etcetera, et cetera, et cetera,
yeah, maybe that's a helpfultool.
Often it's way more helpful forkids to come to that on their
own and to process through.
You know, okay, well, what ifyou know if everybody stole the
(24:07):
store would have to go tobusiness?
Then we wouldn't be able to buygroceries, whatever.
Right, like, I don't knowexactly how it's going to go.
You're a smart adult.
You can figure it out andprocess it through with your kid
, as long as you, that there'snothing expected of you in this
as a parent.
You're just processing throughthis with a kid.
It who knows how thisconversation is going to go.
Have the confidence to have itanyway.
(24:29):
I promise you are more thanable and more than ready to have
this conversation with yournine year old.
You've been a parent for atleast nine years.
You've figured it out this far.
You're going to figure this outtoo, and when you do this and
when you engage in this way andthis collaborative teaching way
with your child, that may, yes,include some form of consequence
, probably, that your kid isgoing to offer up to you.
(24:52):
I hope that your kid will offerup to you.
Hey, maybe this is somethingthat we should do, but it's
ultimately seeking restoration.
Then, at 16, at 18, when wehave the big ethical problems
come up, the real big ethicalproblems, the real big ethical
dilemmas, not the.
I took this $5 thing andprobably the store is going to
write it off and it's not goingto even be known.
(25:13):
Right, there's like lossmetrics built into most stores.
It's probably going into somecorporate slash fund.
Anyway, I'm not trying to likebe some sort of crazy person
here, but, like you, understandwhat I'm saying.
I don't think that stealingthings from stores is right.
I don't want my kids to do itand I don't do it myself.
But what are the real stakeshere?
Probably not very significant.
There will be real stakes foryour kids later with so many
(25:36):
things that they do.
What does it look like when yourkid is considering, you know,
buying a performance enhancingsubstance or something like that
, whether that's at all, or ormaybe it's, you know, some sort
of steroids or something likethat, because they're in, you
know, the high level athlete orwhatever.
Those things can have massive,massive impact on their future.
(25:57):
You want them to think throughthese things that are small so
that they can learn to thinkthrough things that are big, and
you can be a great partner inthat, as long as you approach it
non-judgmentally, as long asyou give them the agency in that
process, as long as you assumethe best of them.
Ultimately, that's what all ofthis is about.
If we assume that athree-year-old is trying to
manipulate us and coerce us bynot brushing their teeth, if we
(26:18):
think that a six-year-old or athree-year-old trying to do that
, if you think that asix-year-old is just trying to
manipulate you and make youthink a certain thing and you
just you know they're just beingnaughty.
If you assume that about them,then they're going to live up to
that expectation that you levelonto them.
If you instead approach yourthree-year-old, six-year-old,
nine-year-old with theperspective of, hey, I'm
(26:39):
assuming the best of you and Ijust want to understand and I
want to help you learn and I'malways on your team and let's
figure this out together, thenactually these moments become
the best moments of parenting.
These are the moments that yourkids will remember and these
are the moments that they'llreflect back on and go.
I had great parents.
That's the truth, right, likeall the fun stuff that you do.
(26:59):
I hope that your kids rememberthat they probably will not
remember most of it.
All the enjoyable experiencesthat your kids have, I hope that
they remember them.
They may not, but the way inwhich you showed up huge in
these moments and you just gavethem the respect and autonomy
and you walk through it withthem and you challenge and you
were on a day.
I don't know how to have thisconversation either.
(27:21):
Let's just figure it outtogether.
That's where your kids aregoing to go.
Wow, my mom, my dad, they didtheir work and it mattered a lot
to me.
So, with that being the case, Ihope that each and every one of
you has learned something inthis episode about how to handle
lying, whether that's a threeyear old or a six year old or a
nine year old, that you mightunderstand why kids lie a little
(27:42):
bit more.
Some of it's developmental,some of it's totally
subconscious and not evenanything.
Some of it's to avoidpunishment.
And how do we do that?
How do we navigate that withyour kid?
I hope that you've learnedsomething about that, and if you
want to know more about allthings, whole parent, like I
said, that email list is one ofthe best places to do it All
right, here we are at the end ofthe episode and actually the
(28:04):
end of two episodes that we havefinally made up to the very end
of our two part series online.
I really enjoyed doing theseepisodes and I love talking
about this stuff.
If you feel like you'reconnecting with whole parent I
cannot emphasize enough Go tothat link in the description
below join the email list.
It's the place where you'regoing to find out all of the
upcoming events and things thatI'm doing and to find out how
(28:27):
you can be more connected withthe whole parent platform, how
you can join the whole parentnation, as we say, and raise
resilient kids.
One other little plug that I'mgoing to give here is that if
you haven't rated or reviewedthis podcast yet, please, please
, be willing to do that.
You know, the more that you canshare this on your social
medias, the more that you canprovide a rating and a review to
(28:49):
whatever podcast platformyou're listening to.
You Spotify people, you'retrying to catch up.
You guys heard me a coupleepisodes ago where I said that
Spotify was behind Applepodcasts on the ratings.
You guys got to get, got to get, got to catch up.
So we'll gamify this a littlebit.
Spotify, you'll get a specialcall out on Spotify.
If you are one of the peoplewho helps push the Spotify
ratings up above the Applepodcast ratings and Apple
(29:10):
podcast people, you know thatmeans you guys have to catch up
as well.
If you, if you let it let up atall, you guys are going to get
passed up by those spot thoseSpotify folks, because they are
rating it like crazy right nowafter I called them out a couple
of weeks ago.
So if you want to help us atwhole parent.
If you want to make sure thatthis episode and all of the
episodes reaches many parents aspossible so that they can raise
(29:33):
resilient kids and and do sowith confidence, make sure that
you go and on whatever podcastplatform you're listening to,
and rate and review this episode.
I'm so excited about next week.
We have so many new things totalk about.
I have kind of a new format forone of the episodes next week,
so get excited about thatalready.
I'm planning that.
I'm already starting to mapthat out to record it, but until
(29:56):
then this has been the wholeparent podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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