January 2, 2024 • 50 mins
🎙️In this first 2024 episode of Conflict Managed with the phenomenal Joyce Washington, join us as we delve into key topics that are essential for nurturing professional growth:
🌟 Learning the art of flexibility as a cornerstone for career advancement
🌱 Building resilience to navigate the twists and turns of your professional journey
🗣️ Exploring the reciprocal nature of respect in fostering honest and respectful work conversations
🧘♂️ Understanding the importance of staying present in your body during challenging discussions
🚀 Embracing difficulties as opportunities for personal and professional growth
Conflict Managed is available on all podcast platforms. Tune in for valuable insights to kickstart your year on a positive note!
Joyce Washington has over 38 years of experience in change management, talent development, multi-functional operational management, internal/external communications, recruiting, and logistics planning. She has a career record of transforming organizational cultures by analyzing current processes and creating and implementing high-impact business solutions/strategies that enhance productivity and maximize operational efficiency. These skills were honed over her entire 42-year career in corporate America. She gained disaster response experience as a catastrophe claims manager. She and her team responded to and were the face of Allstate Insurance Company during major natural and manmade disasters for over 25 years.
Her passion is mentoring leaders and growing diverse teams. She rose through the ranks of a Fortune 100 company beginning in 1971, and through her effort, diversity leadership in her division increased. Her personal story is that she was often the first or only person of color or woman in leadership.
Joyce holds an MBA and a Master of Strategy Communication. She is a community leader, racial justice advocate, facilitator, and Disaster Recovery Manager for the NW TN Development District. Joyce serves as President of the Weakley County Reconciliation Project, Vice-Chair of the Advisory Board of the College of Business and Global Affairs at the University of Tennessee at Martin, and Recording Secretary for the Martin Alumnae Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. She is an active member of the Refreshing Church of Martin, TN.
Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by Merry Brown. You can find them online at 3pconflictrestoration.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
This is all right.
This is all right.
I got it under wraps now.
No,
get a sound of safe,
right.
Asking questions.
(00:25):
Don,
welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
Today on Conflict Managed,
we are joined by Joyce Washington.
Joyce has over 38 years of experience in change management,
talent development,
multifunctional operational management,
internal external communications,
recruiting and logistics planning.
She has a career record of transforming or organizational cultures by analyzing current processes and creating and implementing high impact business solutions and strategies that enhance productivity and maximize operational efficiency.
(00:57):
These skills were honed over her entire 42 year career in corporate America.
She gained disaster response experience as a catastrophe claims manager.
She and her team responded to and were the face of Allstate insurance company during major national and manmade disasters.
For over 25 years.
Her passion is in mentoring leaders and growing diverse teams.
(01:19):
She rose through the ranks of a fortune 100 company beginning in 1971.
And through her efforts,
diversity,
leadership and her division increased her personal story that she was often the first or only person of color or woman in leadership Joyce holds an MB A with a Masters of Strategic Communication.
She is a community leader,
racial justice advocate,
(01:41):
facilitator and disaster recovery manager for the Northwest Tennessee Development District.
Joyce serves as president of Weekly County Reconciliation Project,
Vice chair of the advisory board of the College of Business and Global Affairs at the University of Tennessee at Martin,
a recording secretary for the Martin Alumni Chapter of Delta Sigma INC.
(02:01):
She is an active member of the Refreshing Church of Martin,
Tennessee.
Good morning,
Joyce and welcome to Conflict Managed.
Good morning.
How are you?
I'm doing very well this morning.
How about yourself?
I'm wonderful.
Excited to spend some time with you again.
Yes,
I'm happy to continue our conversation that we had a few weeks ago at our local coffee shop.
(02:25):
Yes.
So Joyce,
let's get right into it.
And will you tell us the first job you ever had as a young woman?
The very first job I ever had was um as a claim customer service person for Allstate insurance company.
Allstate didn't really start to hire black and brown people in office positions until 69 or so.
(02:52):
So it was a very exciting time and the role that I came into was just being created because the claims department was being reimagined and I took loss reports,
meaning I was on the phone,
I was like a intake person and I was on the phone taking calls all day long and it was,
(03:15):
I hadn't thought about that in a long time,
but that was my very first job.
I made 100 and $3 a week.
I brought home,
like 87 and that was a lot of money then.
Yeah,
I,
I stayed there for 42.5 years.
(03:37):
And that,
wow.
Is not the way people work.
That is so true.
So,
when you think about that first job and you've obviously you were with the company for so long for over four decades,
what was the atmosphere like when you first started there?
Given that it was a new department,
(03:59):
diverse hiring and you're a woman.
So what was the environment like there?
It was very much um male dominated,
very structured.
We actually have a switchboard operator and a receptionist and things were very structured in a almost military like fashion.
(04:21):
My first manager or supervisor was a male obviously,
but because the,
the claims department was being restructured uh within a few months,
I had a female supervisor,
pe you could still smoke in the office.
(04:42):
Women were not yet wearing pants,
but it was very much a dress up environment.
So,
yeah,
I'm really dating myself,
but that's what my first job was like.
You know,
I,
I cleared like $87 a week,
(05:05):
but at that point,
the company was a subsidiary of Steers.
So there were good benefits and a 401k and,
and all of that,
but it was very different and because I had never worked before,
I had a lot to learn and to come to understand.
(05:29):
But it was good enough that I stayed for 42.5 years.
Well,
will you talk to us about all of the change that you experienced with within the organization?
The good,
the bad,
the,
everything in between.
What are some highlights of how you grew and developed with that organization for over four decades,
(05:50):
I watched Allstate become a real leader in,
in the industry.
I grew with it because at the point I started,
I just had a high school diploma because of tuition reimbursement.
(06:11):
I sort of started taking classes and continued to take classes forever.
I completed my BS in 09 because I would go to school until the tuition reimbursement ran out and when the reimbursement ran out,
I'd stop and have to wait for the next year.
(06:32):
And so I,
I saw a lot of personal and professional grow.
I watched the company struggle and work through its diversity and inclusion and employee engagement phases.
You know,
I remember we took opinion surveys and then had employee meetings to flush out what employees were saying.
(06:58):
And the company was really trying to listen and understand and I think all of that helped all state become better,
right?
It also allowed me a tremendous amount of opportunity to learn about leadership and management and those things are different.
It helped me understand and learn that companies can't succeed until they really began to understand that the greatest asset that they have are their employees because companies,
(07:36):
you know,
they,
they are the larger structure.
But what makes it successful are the people on the front line?
Because those are the people that are touching your client base,
your customers,
whoever,
whatever and whoever that might be.
(07:58):
And it's important that employees are valued and understand and are seen as having that kind of effect,
you know,
to the great bottom line.
And so I was there with Allstate through,
through all of that.
And it wasn't always easy.
It,
(08:18):
it was painful and difficult claims.
Historical adjusting was a male,
white male dominated feel.
And all of a sudden there are women,
there are people of color,
black and brown folks.
And it was a very interesting and time of growth for me because I learned to,
(08:45):
to breathe and to stay in my body.
I learned to how important teams are and the value of working in teams and what teams provide and what teams provide is a broad spectrum,
ideas and solutions and thoughts.
(09:05):
I also learned that you have to stay flexible,
rigidity is not a good place in leadership or even as a,
as an associate,
even work as a worker,
right?
And one of the things that I started to do was to give out gumbies.
(09:27):
I've given out hundreds of gumbies because for me,
Gumby represents the level of flexibility that one must have in the workplace.
And that is not to say that one gives up one's authentic self or your beliefs or your own values.
(09:54):
It just means that you have to learn to be flexible.
It's,
it's about negotiation and compromise,
right?
It's a give or take in order for one to be successful as an individual and for the organization to be successful.
(10:16):
Right?
So I hope and,
and that people can hear that one,
that your employees are truly the,
that's the biggest asset and investment that you have and that flexibility is critical to the team's everybody.
I love that.
(10:37):
Absolutely.
And when we think about why there is poor management in many places and why people are seen as cogs in a machine and therefore treated not as people but as objects.
And how,
(10:57):
first of all,
I think it,
I mean,
it is wrong to dehumanize individuals,
but it's really bad business practice are to treat people well,
to invest in them,
to see them as people is the right thing to do.
And it's how we get innovation,
how we get growth.
(11:19):
And I,
I love the enthusiasm as you talk about the opportunities and the growth and your own development.
But you also used words like painful time,
um patience because growth takes resilience and sticking with it when,
(11:43):
when we ought to stay.
Of course,
there's an art to knowing when to let something go and an art to know when to move like Gumby,
right?
Because Gumby is still a whole authentic self.
The little,
if you don't know what a Gumby is,
I will post a picture but Gumby is a whole self but whole self's move.
That is the nature of existence growing,
(12:06):
developing,
I think at our heart,
we are creative individuals and when we stifle that ourselves or our organization is rigid,
it is against what I think is true about human persons that we thrive when we are let loose,
(12:26):
to be creative and also nudged to be innovative and to be flexible and,
and not rigid.
I just think that's beautiful.
I love the Gumby,
so flexibility,
so key and yet it's hard because we like what we know and tradition can be good.
So how did you become a resilient person and interested in learning and adapting and flexibility?
(12:55):
I think it was out of a desire to be successful.
Hm.
And understanding that to be successful,
I there was no option but to be resilient,
but I refuse to compromise who Joy Ann was.
(13:21):
Um oftentimes as,
as I grew and developed and,
and moved through the ranks.
Um My director would oftentimes seek me out,
you know,
and ask my opinion,
especially when we were working through employee engagement and inclusion issues.
(13:46):
And I would always say,
are you sure you want to hear from me?
You know,
you because I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.
I'm going to tell you the truth.
As I,
as I live it,
as I experience it as an employee,
as a leader.
And that sort of became the reputation that I had that if you wanted to know,
(14:09):
asked you,
do you really wanna know because otherwise don't come to me because I'm not that person.
But I learned that it was always ok for me to speak my truth.
But I needed to stay in my body and to learn how to do that and to be able to respect opinions that were very different from mine.
(14:40):
And I have carried that work and continued to develop that work.
My responsibility,
one's responsibility is to speak your truth.
I can't worry,
one can't worry about how it lands for other people.
(15:00):
But I have to do that in a respectful way because respect is a reciprocal situation.
And so if I want respect,
I have to be able to deliver whatever my truth is.
And,
you know,
(15:21):
as a black woman of a certain age,
I got some pretty hard truths that's difficult for a lot of people to hear.
But if you want to know my view and my perspective and my vision,
then you have to be willing to hear those hard truths.
(15:46):
Uh just like I have to be willing to hear yours and we don't have to agree.
It's ok.
I really like this idea of when going through something difficult about staying in your own body.
I know I have had a tendency to flee my body.
Um,
(16:06):
given my background,
I have a tendency to intellectualize so that I don't have to feel.
So what advice do you have for those of us who,
who do those sorts of things?
How,
how do you stay present in your body in order to move through those difficult situations at work and difficult conversations,
(16:34):
it's all about self care and breathing,
right?
Breathing is sort of an involuntary thing.
And for me to stay in my,
in my body,
I have to make it a very intentional thing,
right?
(16:54):
I have to focus on it.
I have to think about it and that's a way of keeping me grounded and focused and it takes practice.
It takes,
you have to be intentional about it,
but the payoff makes it worth it for me.
(17:17):
You know,
this is what works for me and it's what,
you know,
I teach and talk about in my social justice work is,
you know,
bold and courageous conversations happened everywhere at work at school in our rela personal and intimate relationships at church.
(17:38):
But the human experience through those bold and courageous conversations is the same no matter where they occur.
And so it is quite helpful to have a,
a process,
a plan by which you can engage more fully in those bold and courageous conversations.
(18:01):
And for me,
it is becoming conscious of my breath and staying focused with the individual,
right and maintaining eye contact.
Because so often when we're in those bold conversations,
people don't wanna look at each other.
(18:21):
It's easier to say whatever I have to say if I don't have to look at you.
But when you maintain eye contact and become intentional and focused on your breathing and start to listen to hear,
not to answer.
(18:42):
It helps me.
This is what I do.
Stay grounded and focused and present in the moment.
There's so much richness there.
Joyce.
I,
I love what you've said about being prepared at these to have difficult conversations,
difficulties arise and that's natural.
(19:04):
It's a part of life.
And so we should all have what works for us.
What is our personal tool kit?
And we don't get it because we say we have it,
we get it because we're intentional.
As you said,
we practice,
we develop habits and we make ourselves,
how am I going to decide to have a difficult conversation if I haven't prepared myself,
(19:29):
if I'm not available,
emotionally available?
I think a lot about emotional intelligence.
And really before our conversation,
I hadn't given much thought to my body itself.
I mean,
I do pay attention to what happens to my body when I'm in conflict.
But I've thought more about fleeing it rather than sitting in it and dealing with it and dealing with myself in order to be present and grounded and that deep listening.
(20:04):
I think that's the human experience.
Yes.
I think that's,
the human experience is to not sit in it.
Right.
The,
the human,
the natural reaction is to flee.
But I think we need to all work on learning to sit with it.
(20:25):
Yeah.
To be ok that we disagree.
What's not ok is being unwilling to talk through it because it is talking through it that allows us to come up with solutions and to solve whatever the issue is because flight doesn't,
(20:52):
doesn't give us that.
Uh yelling and screaming doesn't get us that and whatever is in front of us is about finding a solution to whatever the the challenge is and finding some mutual ground by which we can move forward.
And I think large people don't want to do hard work,
(21:14):
everybody wants it to be easy.
And people think that flight is easy and flight isn't easy because what happens is it festers,
it continues to grow,
it grows disrespect and distrust and none of that is effective or helps the human condition right?
(21:36):
There can be no progress,
no growth,
no sense of contribution for me if it's just festering and it requires us to be vulnerable and we don't want to be that,
you know,
and in difficult and bold conversations,
you always have a choice.
(21:57):
You can say,
look,
I can't talk to you about this today,
but can we come back to it or maybe it's just,
I know and that's a full sentence.
But you need to be clear on why you are choosing those options.
Does that make sense?
It makes a lot of sense.
(22:18):
I really appreciate what you're saying about communication because just because I'm ready to talk today at this moment,
it doesn't mean you're ready.
And in particular,
at work we come with,
you know,
I imagine you at your 41st year,
(22:39):
at your job talking to somebody who's been there for three weeks,
you have different perspectives,
different,
different ideas of,
of,
of what it is that you want or what it is you need or what it is.
Maybe you even value and yet we can all come together to contribute and find a path forward.
But it doesn't have to be always on my terms the way I want it when I want it.
(23:06):
But I think it is very important to also have organizations that encourage us and offer training to have these appropriate conversations in the work environment.
And that,
that it is expected that we deal with difficult things so that they don't fester and constant,
(23:27):
I think a,
a constant culture of modeling that we could do hard things together.
So that,
that is the norm.
I agree that,
but that's not what we see so much of today.
It's the hard work that people wanna run from and having honest,
(23:49):
bold,
courageous conversations about anything,
performance,
attendance goals.
Those are hard conversations and people just choke up,
they either choke up or they come out of their bodies and neither of those are really effective in trying to find solutions for those kinds of challenges.
(24:12):
It seems so normal that,
that we run from pain,
right?
You put your hand on a hot stove and you immediately take it away.
Right?
So there's something very biological about that.
Something very,
we want to protect ourselves.
We are always looking for,
how do we survive in community because we're community beings by nature.
(24:36):
So we need that resilience.
We need the ability to hear hard things,
say hard things,
do hard things so that we can have a fruitful life.
We can have a better life,
we can have all these riches that wait for us on the other side of the hard.
So how do we get off the couch?
(24:58):
It in particular,
I'm interested in work.
How do we get people to engage instead of fleeing from the difficulty?
I think it starts when you in the hiring process,
I think it starts,
you know,
when you decide to open up a business,
(25:19):
an organization,
you one should have a vision for what that environment will look like,
what the culture of your business will be about.
And I think it starts with what I said earlier,
you know,
understanding that the success is not me,
(25:41):
the success of the people who are going to come in and support me in the delivering of whatever it is I'm selling or servicing.
So that means I have to hire people who,
who like people,
you know,
who smile,
who can see the vision of whatever my business is about and have some interest in it and who want to be a part of something.
(26:13):
Now,
that may sound an impossible task,
but nothing is impossible when we believe that it is necessary for success,
it's only impossible when we don't see the value in it.
And when we see the value in people,
when we see associates as human and Nava Cla and the value that they add,
(26:40):
then that's how you do it.
It's by coaching and developing and encouraging employees.
I think no company is too big to do that.
No organization is too big to do that.
And when they think that they are too big to do that,
(27:02):
I think they lose their way.
Yeah,
and whatever edge they thought they had,
it will begin to go.
Yes,
I,
I love that.
Nobody is too big.
No organization is too big.
And I would say no organization is too small to invest and really think about their,
(27:25):
the people that work for them are people first power structures,
organizational structures,
they come and go.
But when we think about how we ought to treat one another,
the importance of continued education as we grow and develop as leaders,
as managers in the different rungs within an organization small,
(27:47):
big medium.
If you can't afford it,
then you need to restructure because you're losing money,
you are losing innovation.
You are,
you are,
as you said,
you've lost your edge and it is just a narrative.
Oh,
we can't afford that or it's just impossible.
Absolutely not.
(28:07):
If you value it.
If I valued running a five K,
then I organize my life that way.
It's not that I can't because I,
I physically am able to,
you know,
some people may not be physically able to,
I am physically able to,
if I put the work in,
I'm not doing it because I'm currently not valuing it.
And that's about me and my choices.
(28:28):
And it's the same thing with an organization.
If an organization tells himself the story,
it's too unwieldy.
That's not realistic here.
That's a choice and it doesn't have to be that way.
I totally agree with that.
But you certainly know,
and some of your listeners probably know that that's not the common thread in the business world today.
(28:56):
There will be lots of companies that will fail in the short term because they're unable to connect with younger workers coming in and you need them and you need them to feel part of the team because they are the team.
(29:21):
Uh and you need the skills that they are bringing and we need to make sure that they feel seen,
valued,
nurtured,
developed,
coached.
And so many will tell you that they aren't getting that.
And that's part of why I think they job hop is they're searching for an environment that will take them to the next level and that's OK that you take them to the next level and they,
(29:56):
they,
they move on to a higher role in the company or to another company to a higher role,
right?
But you have to be willing to invest and it's not always about compensation,
you know,
compensation is important now.
But that's not the only thing that workers associates are looking for.
(30:23):
Yeah,
I really love that you mentioned the younger generation at work because we do need them.
They are of course the future and there's this in a way artificial war of us versus them against the generation.
Like what generation are you part of?
How can we on social media drag you?
And so then we tell ourselves narratives about the new people who quote unquote,
(30:45):
don't want to work or who are lazy or the old people who are crusty and set in their ways.
And the fact of the matter is we need everybody at every decade they are in because they have some valuable insights into the people who are kind of like them and what they bring to the table and how much better we can be if we're not us versus them,
(31:10):
but us together.
So this mentoring and reverse mentoring.
How can you mentor new people?
But how can they mentor you.
Right,
seeing each other as really having really authentically,
having something valuable to bring to the table.
That's right.
And that we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't really want that and listen to it and also set civility standards because we have miscommunication.
(31:43):
What is that?
Because there is some legitimacy of,
if I've been in an organization for a very long time,
I have this certain set of standards and maybe somebody coming in has a different set and it's not that one is right or wrong necessarily,
they are different.
And if we don't communicate regularly and we don't listen to,
(32:08):
we might use the same words,
but we have different expectations behind them,
then how can we really see the other as not in other,
but as a part of a team and something we set the culture together.
So Joyce,
when you think about the different people that you've worked with or for who stands out or what experience stands out to you as really beneficial.
(32:37):
Something that was a real bright spot in the work that you've done and in your own personal development.
And what was so great about it for you?
Probably,
well,
two people come to mind.
One was one of my very early supervisors.
She was horrible.
But what I learned from that was how not to be.
(33:00):
So in every experience there are lessons,
the issue is,
do we learn them?
Right?
Do we pay attention to them.
But in every interaction,
their lessons.
And that's what I learned that one of my early supervisors,
(33:21):
it was just a horrible experience.
And so I said to myself,
when I become,
I'm not going to be that.
And all these years later,
I still remember that like it was yesterday.
And the second person was one of my early claim managers.
(33:46):
I was a front line manager and I reported to him,
he would not accept anything except my very best.
He was one of the first black claim managers.
I was one of the first front line managers.
And so uh we were both new in these roles and he just would not accept anything from me but my very best.
(34:18):
And I appreciate that because it kept me growing and paying attention.
And in that structure,
I could not afford to do anything less.
I couldn't afford not to give my best.
(34:39):
It is true that as a black woman,
I have always felt that it was necessary for me to give my best.
There was never any other option and always conscious of that.
(35:02):
And so those are the two people that I worked for that really inspired me,
right?
To be all that I could be.
And it's interesting that I,
I remember that,
you know,
at that point,
all I had was a high school degree diploma and my writing was not up to par and we used to have to do monthly reports.
(35:33):
And back then we dictated them,
right?
But there were only so many people who could transcribe so often I would handwrite them out and someone would type them up.
He would then call us in and talk to us about whatever results we had.
And he called me in to talk about my report.
(35:54):
And he said,
you know,
you don't talk like you write.
I was horrified.
I started taking writing classes when I got my master's in strategic communication.
I shared with him my thesis and he said he commented about that because he still remembers that conversation,
(36:20):
right?
He says,
you have become quite the writer and he's right.
I have.
And so he would not allow me to do anything but develop and succeed with the skills and talent and drive that I had.
I think that's wonderful,
how wonderful to have mentors to speak into our life and to encourage us to be our best self.
(36:45):
So how did he thread the needle from being encouraging and not overbearing or micromanaging?
Or you know,
some people expect the impossible.
So what did he do to really help you be your best self and not burden you with something that just wasn't possible.
(37:07):
I think it speaks to his management style and skill.
We both knew the claim business and he would encourage and coach without micromanaging.
That was something I learned from another manager not to do was to micromanage Right.
(37:32):
You have to trust people,
you have to believe in people.
And if you can't do that,
you probably shouldn't be in a leadership or a management role because it never ends well.
And so he believed in me,
he,
he knew the business,
he helped me learn the business.
(37:54):
He allowed me to make mistakes and to fail.
Right.
But always manage to bring me back on track.
Now,
it wasn't always easy.
I certainly cried a lot in his office and in meetings.
But again,
it's the resilience because I knew that the work was for my development.
(38:20):
It was what was necessary for me to become,
you know,
the claim manager that I envisioned myself to be and the leader of people that I envisioned myself to be because influence isn't always tied to titles a rose,
(38:45):
right?
And oftentimes some people think that that's where their power comes from,
but one doesn't have power until you give it away and you have to be willing to give it away.
And then once you've given it away,
you have to be willing to trust and to believe that people will carry the torch for lack of a better term and that they will do the right thing.
(39:16):
That's where selecting leaders and developing leaders and managers becomes important.
I like what you said about this.
You've talked about vision a couple of times in different ways,
but you had this vision for yourself to help you to grow and develop,
(39:36):
which means that you needed to be resilient to do the hard work.
And you also mentioned earlier in our conversation about when we hire having people on board with the,
the vision and the mission of the organization and that's very important.
And so I,
I would want to help hopefully people to really think about what is their vision for themselves,
(40:00):
who do they want to be,
who do they want to become?
And what is the vision and mission of their organization?
And how can they come alongside that?
So that when they look at the difficulties,
they have a real reason to resolve them and if they don't,
maybe it is time to look for a different organization.
(40:21):
Mhm.
Absolutely.
I think I knew that I wanted to be successful.
I was just a big old country girl from Northwest Tennessee.
You know,
Allstate was my first and only job really.
I did work six months for Monsanto.
But I don't count that because six months wasn't very long and I wanted to make a difference.
(40:47):
I wanted to make a difference in my life and in the lives of those that I,
I had a vision.
Right.
And I needed to really try and go back to school and keep taking those courses,
you know,
and now I have three degrees,
you know,
and I am a good writer and I think I have made a difference,
(41:12):
you know,
many of the young folks that I've hired over the years,
many of them have surpassed where I ended up as a senior manager.
You know,
a couple of them are vps in Claim Department,
but that's what we want.
At least that's what I wanted.
(41:33):
Right.
And I'm happy for him.
Well,
Joyce,
let's end on that note about vision.
So when you look into the future of work,
what do you think needs to happen so that every person is treated with dignity and respect,
but more than that encouraged to flourish and thrive.
(41:56):
And that sounds like something out of a sci fi sci fi movie.
Uh But I am a sci fi fan.
So I think as a society,
we're going to have to become more comfortable with inclusion and diversity.
(42:17):
And as a society,
we are not there yet.
And until we can do that work is just a stubbs that of our larger society.
And it is from the larger society that we bring people into the subset that we call work.
(42:46):
So if we can't deal with inclusion and diversity and bold and courageous conversations out here and acknowledge who we are and how we got here out here,
it will continue to impact what happens in the subset that we call work.
Hm Spo I think that's where it has to start.
(43:12):
It can't start at work.
It's going to have to start outside of work because work is just made up of the LA folks from the larger society.
And if we can't deal with those things out here,
how do we deal with them inside what we call work?
(43:32):
So I think working toward a more inclusive and diverse,
beloved community and to just not be afraid to repeat,
curious,
I'm not sure that will help us get there because I'm not sure enough people are willing.
(43:55):
I work.
Right.
But that's what I think has to happen.
Because once we do that in the larger society,
then it will just sort of perpetuate itself in these sets of society they call work or schools.
(44:20):
You know,
because the people that populate those places,
those environments,
they come prepared deal with that.
I,
I wonder because I'm an optimist by nature and,
(44:40):
and it's I,
you strike me as being an optimist and I wonder,
it just seems like such a long time to wait for culture to shift in order to bring about healthier work environments.
And,
but nonetheless,
that just may be what needs to happen.
I am a eternal optimist and I look at,
(45:02):
I have to hold on to hope even though it's hard and it can be discouraging.
And there are some days in my work when I just,
at the end of the day,
I just have to go to bed.
I don't want to listen,
watch TV,
listen to music.
I'm just done.
(45:22):
That's that self care piece that I,
I spoke of.
But the Cold hard truth is for me,
that's what I believe.
Until we can fix it in the larger society,
there will always be these struggles in these subsets of our society specifically that you and I have been speaking of within work environments,
(45:50):
because people bring their authentic and whole selves into those environments and they are who they are.
It's true.
And so until we can face and be willing to engage and be willing to expose ourselves,
(46:14):
I don't know how we fix it in work environments,
but I'm hopeful.
Yes.
And I think the younger generation,
they give me hope.
Yes.
Um we are leaving them a mess,
but I'm hopeful and those coming behind me are the source of a lot of my,
(46:42):
in my energy because we've not done a good job of engaging in our larger society of trying to understand and accept and acknowledge how and who America is and how we all move forward together.
Because if we can't move forward together,
(47:03):
we won't move forward.
Yeah,
I absolutely agree.
Well,
let's end on that hope note because I agree.
I absolutely agree.
There is bright hope and it does take willingness to do hard things,
which means we all need to develop the virtue of courage.
And I think the virtue of hope,
(47:23):
I have a saying that I share with that I mentor and it's you have to have will and courage.
You got to have those two things.
And without them,
you'll flee you.
You won't be able to engage in those courageous conversations.
And so the will,
(47:45):
the intent and the courage we need more of and hope.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Joyce.
Thank you so much for your time today.
It's been such a joy,
speaking with you.
Thank you.
I've had a good time.
Hopefully,
we've shared some nuggets that people can take away and it will help them.
(48:06):
It has been my pleasure to spend a few minutes with you.
Thank you.
Thank you,
Joyce.
I have learned so much from my conversations with you in particular.
I have been thinking a lot about personally by how I deal with conflict and about how I do flee from my body and listener though I talk about and think about and write about conflict and talk to people about conflict.
(48:31):
I am in process.
I am still learning.
It is a journey and so I encourage you to go on that journey for you about how to deal with conflict in a fruitful way so that you can be the person that you want to be and have the authentic relationships that you want as well personally and at work.
(48:53):
So,
thank you,
Joyce.
That piece of advice has really been sticking with me.
Conflict managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictrestoration.com.
Please come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday and this is the first episode of 2024.
(49:16):
We have a,
a great lineup for this new year.
So come and be with us and think about how to have healthier work environments.
If you haven't had a chance to check out my new book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (49:27):
Tips to Ensure Failure,
I encourage you to pick up a copy.
It examines what not to do at work and what to do.
Instead,
how can we have healthy work environments?
How can we spend time in self reflection about what we're doing?
Right.
And where we need to grow and also how can we have conversations with those around us so that we can talk about what it means to be civil in the workplace.
(49:54):
Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot. And remember,
conflict is normal and to be expected.
So let's deal with it. Until next time.
Take care.
So.
This is all right.
This is all right.
I got it under wraps now.
No,
get a sound of safe,
right.
Asking questions.
(00:25):
Don,
welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
Today on Conflict Managed,
we are joined by Joyce Washington.
Joyce has over 38 years of experience in change management,
talent development,
multifunctional operational management,
internal external communications,
recruiting and logistics planning.
She has a career record of transforming or organizational cultures by analyzing current processes and creating and implementing high impact business solutions and strategies that enhance productivity and maximize operational efficiency.
(00:57):
These skills were honed over her entire 42 year career in corporate America.
She gained disaster response experience as a catastrophe claims manager.
She and her team responded to and were the face of Allstate insurance company during major national and manmade disasters.
For over 25 years.
Her passion is in mentoring leaders and growing diverse teams.
(01:19):
She rose through the ranks of a fortune 100 company beginning in 1971.
And through her efforts,
diversity,
leadership and her division increased her personal story that she was often the first or only person of color or woman in leadership Joyce holds an MB A with a Masters of Strategic Communication.
She is a community leader,
racial justice advocate,
(01:41):
facilitator and disaster recovery manager for the Northwest Tennessee Development District.
Joyce serves as president of Weekly County Reconciliation Project,
Vice chair of the advisory board of the College of Business and Global Affairs at the University of Tennessee at Martin,
a recording secretary for the Martin Alumni Chapter of Delta Sigma INC.
(02:01):
She is an active member of the Refreshing Church of Martin,
Tennessee.
Good morning,
Joyce and welcome to Conflict Managed.
Good morning.
How are you?
I'm doing very well this morning.
How about yourself?
I'm wonderful.
Excited to spend some time with you again.
Yes,
I'm happy to continue our conversation that we had a few weeks ago at our local coffee shop.
(02:25):
Yes.
So Joyce,
let's get right into it.
And will you tell us the first job you ever had as a young woman?
The very first job I ever had was um as a claim customer service person for Allstate insurance company.
Allstate didn't really start to hire black and brown people in office positions until 69 or so.
(02:52):
So it was a very exciting time and the role that I came into was just being created because the claims department was being reimagined and I took loss reports,
meaning I was on the phone,
I was like a intake person and I was on the phone taking calls all day long and it was,
(03:15):
I hadn't thought about that in a long time,
but that was my very first job.
I made 100 and $3 a week.
I brought home,
like 87 and that was a lot of money then.
Yeah,
I,
I stayed there for 42.5 years.
(03:37):
And that,
wow.
Is not the way people work.
That is so true.
So,
when you think about that first job and you've obviously you were with the company for so long for over four decades,
what was the atmosphere like when you first started there?
Given that it was a new department,
(03:59):
diverse hiring and you're a woman.
So what was the environment like there?
It was very much um male dominated,
very structured.
We actually have a switchboard operator and a receptionist and things were very structured in a almost military like fashion.
(04:21):
My first manager or supervisor was a male obviously,
but because the,
the claims department was being restructured uh within a few months,
I had a female supervisor,
pe you could still smoke in the office.
(04:42):
Women were not yet wearing pants,
but it was very much a dress up environment.
So,
yeah,
I'm really dating myself,
but that's what my first job was like.
You know,
I,
I cleared like $87 a week,
(05:05):
but at that point,
the company was a subsidiary of Steers.
So there were good benefits and a 401k and,
and all of that,
but it was very different and because I had never worked before,
I had a lot to learn and to come to understand.
(05:29):
But it was good enough that I stayed for 42.5 years.
Well,
will you talk to us about all of the change that you experienced with within the organization?
The good,
the bad,
the,
everything in between.
What are some highlights of how you grew and developed with that organization for over four decades,
(05:50):
I watched Allstate become a real leader in,
in the industry.
I grew with it because at the point I started,
I just had a high school diploma because of tuition reimbursement.
(06:11):
I sort of started taking classes and continued to take classes forever.
I completed my BS in 09 because I would go to school until the tuition reimbursement ran out and when the reimbursement ran out,
I'd stop and have to wait for the next year.
(06:32):
And so I,
I saw a lot of personal and professional grow.
I watched the company struggle and work through its diversity and inclusion and employee engagement phases.
You know,
I remember we took opinion surveys and then had employee meetings to flush out what employees were saying.
(06:58):
And the company was really trying to listen and understand and I think all of that helped all state become better,
right?
It also allowed me a tremendous amount of opportunity to learn about leadership and management and those things are different.
It helped me understand and learn that companies can't succeed until they really began to understand that the greatest asset that they have are their employees because companies,
(07:36):
you know,
they,
they are the larger structure.
But what makes it successful are the people on the front line?
Because those are the people that are touching your client base,
your customers,
whoever,
whatever and whoever that might be.
(07:58):
And it's important that employees are valued and understand and are seen as having that kind of effect,
you know,
to the great bottom line.
And so I was there with Allstate through,
through all of that.
And it wasn't always easy.
It,
(08:18):
it was painful and difficult claims.
Historical adjusting was a male,
white male dominated feel.
And all of a sudden there are women,
there are people of color,
black and brown folks.
And it was a very interesting and time of growth for me because I learned to,
(08:45):
to breathe and to stay in my body.
I learned to how important teams are and the value of working in teams and what teams provide and what teams provide is a broad spectrum,
ideas and solutions and thoughts.
(09:05):
I also learned that you have to stay flexible,
rigidity is not a good place in leadership or even as a,
as an associate,
even work as a worker,
right?
And one of the things that I started to do was to give out gumbies.
(09:27):
I've given out hundreds of gumbies because for me,
Gumby represents the level of flexibility that one must have in the workplace.
And that is not to say that one gives up one's authentic self or your beliefs or your own values.
(09:54):
It just means that you have to learn to be flexible.
It's,
it's about negotiation and compromise,
right?
It's a give or take in order for one to be successful as an individual and for the organization to be successful.
(10:16):
Right?
So I hope and,
and that people can hear that one,
that your employees are truly the,
that's the biggest asset and investment that you have and that flexibility is critical to the team's everybody.
I love that.
(10:37):
Absolutely.
And when we think about why there is poor management in many places and why people are seen as cogs in a machine and therefore treated not as people but as objects.
And how,
(10:57):
first of all,
I think it,
I mean,
it is wrong to dehumanize individuals,
but it's really bad business practice are to treat people well,
to invest in them,
to see them as people is the right thing to do.
And it's how we get innovation,
how we get growth.
(11:19):
And I,
I love the enthusiasm as you talk about the opportunities and the growth and your own development.
But you also used words like painful time,
um patience because growth takes resilience and sticking with it when,
(11:43):
when we ought to stay.
Of course,
there's an art to knowing when to let something go and an art to know when to move like Gumby,
right?
Because Gumby is still a whole authentic self.
The little,
if you don't know what a Gumby is,
I will post a picture but Gumby is a whole self but whole self's move.
That is the nature of existence growing,
(12:06):
developing,
I think at our heart,
we are creative individuals and when we stifle that ourselves or our organization is rigid,
it is against what I think is true about human persons that we thrive when we are let loose,
(12:26):
to be creative and also nudged to be innovative and to be flexible and,
and not rigid.
I just think that's beautiful.
I love the Gumby,
so flexibility,
so key and yet it's hard because we like what we know and tradition can be good.
So how did you become a resilient person and interested in learning and adapting and flexibility?
(12:55):
I think it was out of a desire to be successful.
Hm.
And understanding that to be successful,
I there was no option but to be resilient,
but I refuse to compromise who Joy Ann was.
(13:21):
Um oftentimes as,
as I grew and developed and,
and moved through the ranks.
Um My director would oftentimes seek me out,
you know,
and ask my opinion,
especially when we were working through employee engagement and inclusion issues.
(13:46):
And I would always say,
are you sure you want to hear from me?
You know,
you because I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.
I'm going to tell you the truth.
As I,
as I live it,
as I experience it as an employee,
as a leader.
And that sort of became the reputation that I had that if you wanted to know,
(14:09):
asked you,
do you really wanna know because otherwise don't come to me because I'm not that person.
But I learned that it was always ok for me to speak my truth.
But I needed to stay in my body and to learn how to do that and to be able to respect opinions that were very different from mine.
(14:40):
And I have carried that work and continued to develop that work.
My responsibility,
one's responsibility is to speak your truth.
I can't worry,
one can't worry about how it lands for other people.
(15:00):
But I have to do that in a respectful way because respect is a reciprocal situation.
And so if I want respect,
I have to be able to deliver whatever my truth is.
And,
you know,
(15:21):
as a black woman of a certain age,
I got some pretty hard truths that's difficult for a lot of people to hear.
But if you want to know my view and my perspective and my vision,
then you have to be willing to hear those hard truths.
(15:46):
Uh just like I have to be willing to hear yours and we don't have to agree.
It's ok.
I really like this idea of when going through something difficult about staying in your own body.
I know I have had a tendency to flee my body.
Um,
(16:06):
given my background,
I have a tendency to intellectualize so that I don't have to feel.
So what advice do you have for those of us who,
who do those sorts of things?
How,
how do you stay present in your body in order to move through those difficult situations at work and difficult conversations,
(16:34):
it's all about self care and breathing,
right?
Breathing is sort of an involuntary thing.
And for me to stay in my,
in my body,
I have to make it a very intentional thing,
right?
(16:54):
I have to focus on it.
I have to think about it and that's a way of keeping me grounded and focused and it takes practice.
It takes,
you have to be intentional about it,
but the payoff makes it worth it for me.
(17:17):
You know,
this is what works for me and it's what,
you know,
I teach and talk about in my social justice work is,
you know,
bold and courageous conversations happened everywhere at work at school in our rela personal and intimate relationships at church.
(17:38):
But the human experience through those bold and courageous conversations is the same no matter where they occur.
And so it is quite helpful to have a,
a process,
a plan by which you can engage more fully in those bold and courageous conversations.
(18:01):
And for me,
it is becoming conscious of my breath and staying focused with the individual,
right and maintaining eye contact.
Because so often when we're in those bold conversations,
people don't wanna look at each other.
(18:21):
It's easier to say whatever I have to say if I don't have to look at you.
But when you maintain eye contact and become intentional and focused on your breathing and start to listen to hear,
not to answer.
(18:42):
It helps me.
This is what I do.
Stay grounded and focused and present in the moment.
There's so much richness there.
Joyce.
I,
I love what you've said about being prepared at these to have difficult conversations,
difficulties arise and that's natural.
(19:04):
It's a part of life.
And so we should all have what works for us.
What is our personal tool kit?
And we don't get it because we say we have it,
we get it because we're intentional.
As you said,
we practice,
we develop habits and we make ourselves,
how am I going to decide to have a difficult conversation if I haven't prepared myself,
(19:29):
if I'm not available,
emotionally available?
I think a lot about emotional intelligence.
And really before our conversation,
I hadn't given much thought to my body itself.
I mean,
I do pay attention to what happens to my body when I'm in conflict.
But I've thought more about fleeing it rather than sitting in it and dealing with it and dealing with myself in order to be present and grounded and that deep listening.
(20:04):
I think that's the human experience.
Yes.
I think that's,
the human experience is to not sit in it.
Right.
The,
the human,
the natural reaction is to flee.
But I think we need to all work on learning to sit with it.
(20:25):
Yeah.
To be ok that we disagree.
What's not ok is being unwilling to talk through it because it is talking through it that allows us to come up with solutions and to solve whatever the issue is because flight doesn't,
(20:52):
doesn't give us that.
Uh yelling and screaming doesn't get us that and whatever is in front of us is about finding a solution to whatever the the challenge is and finding some mutual ground by which we can move forward.
And I think large people don't want to do hard work,
(21:14):
everybody wants it to be easy.
And people think that flight is easy and flight isn't easy because what happens is it festers,
it continues to grow,
it grows disrespect and distrust and none of that is effective or helps the human condition right?
(21:36):
There can be no progress,
no growth,
no sense of contribution for me if it's just festering and it requires us to be vulnerable and we don't want to be that,
you know,
and in difficult and bold conversations,
you always have a choice.
(21:57):
You can say,
look,
I can't talk to you about this today,
but can we come back to it or maybe it's just,
I know and that's a full sentence.
But you need to be clear on why you are choosing those options.
Does that make sense?
It makes a lot of sense.
(22:18):
I really appreciate what you're saying about communication because just because I'm ready to talk today at this moment,
it doesn't mean you're ready.
And in particular,
at work we come with,
you know,
I imagine you at your 41st year,
(22:39):
at your job talking to somebody who's been there for three weeks,
you have different perspectives,
different,
different ideas of,
of,
of what it is that you want or what it is you need or what it is.
Maybe you even value and yet we can all come together to contribute and find a path forward.
But it doesn't have to be always on my terms the way I want it when I want it.
(23:06):
But I think it is very important to also have organizations that encourage us and offer training to have these appropriate conversations in the work environment.
And that,
that it is expected that we deal with difficult things so that they don't fester and constant,
(23:27):
I think a,
a constant culture of modeling that we could do hard things together.
So that,
that is the norm.
I agree that,
but that's not what we see so much of today.
It's the hard work that people wanna run from and having honest,
(23:49):
bold,
courageous conversations about anything,
performance,
attendance goals.
Those are hard conversations and people just choke up,
they either choke up or they come out of their bodies and neither of those are really effective in trying to find solutions for those kinds of challenges.
(24:12):
It seems so normal that,
that we run from pain,
right?
You put your hand on a hot stove and you immediately take it away.
Right?
So there's something very biological about that.
Something very,
we want to protect ourselves.
We are always looking for,
how do we survive in community because we're community beings by nature.
(24:36):
So we need that resilience.
We need the ability to hear hard things,
say hard things,
do hard things so that we can have a fruitful life.
We can have a better life,
we can have all these riches that wait for us on the other side of the hard.
So how do we get off the couch?
(24:58):
It in particular,
I'm interested in work.
How do we get people to engage instead of fleeing from the difficulty?
I think it starts when you in the hiring process,
I think it starts,
you know,
when you decide to open up a business,
(25:19):
an organization,
you one should have a vision for what that environment will look like,
what the culture of your business will be about.
And I think it starts with what I said earlier,
you know,
understanding that the success is not me,
(25:41):
the success of the people who are going to come in and support me in the delivering of whatever it is I'm selling or servicing.
So that means I have to hire people who,
who like people,
you know,
who smile,
who can see the vision of whatever my business is about and have some interest in it and who want to be a part of something.
(26:13):
Now,
that may sound an impossible task,
but nothing is impossible when we believe that it is necessary for success,
it's only impossible when we don't see the value in it.
And when we see the value in people,
when we see associates as human and Nava Cla and the value that they add,
(26:40):
then that's how you do it.
It's by coaching and developing and encouraging employees.
I think no company is too big to do that.
No organization is too big to do that.
And when they think that they are too big to do that,
(27:02):
I think they lose their way.
Yeah,
and whatever edge they thought they had,
it will begin to go.
Yes,
I,
I love that.
Nobody is too big.
No organization is too big.
And I would say no organization is too small to invest and really think about their,
(27:25):
the people that work for them are people first power structures,
organizational structures,
they come and go.
But when we think about how we ought to treat one another,
the importance of continued education as we grow and develop as leaders,
as managers in the different rungs within an organization small,
(27:47):
big medium.
If you can't afford it,
then you need to restructure because you're losing money,
you are losing innovation.
You are,
you are,
as you said,
you've lost your edge and it is just a narrative.
Oh,
we can't afford that or it's just impossible.
Absolutely not.
(28:07):
If you value it.
If I valued running a five K,
then I organize my life that way.
It's not that I can't because I,
I physically am able to,
you know,
some people may not be physically able to,
I am physically able to,
if I put the work in,
I'm not doing it because I'm currently not valuing it.
And that's about me and my choices.
(28:28):
And it's the same thing with an organization.
If an organization tells himself the story,
it's too unwieldy.
That's not realistic here.
That's a choice and it doesn't have to be that way.
I totally agree with that.
But you certainly know,
and some of your listeners probably know that that's not the common thread in the business world today.
(28:56):
There will be lots of companies that will fail in the short term because they're unable to connect with younger workers coming in and you need them and you need them to feel part of the team because they are the team.
(29:21):
Uh and you need the skills that they are bringing and we need to make sure that they feel seen,
valued,
nurtured,
developed,
coached.
And so many will tell you that they aren't getting that.
And that's part of why I think they job hop is they're searching for an environment that will take them to the next level and that's OK that you take them to the next level and they,
(29:56):
they,
they move on to a higher role in the company or to another company to a higher role,
right?
But you have to be willing to invest and it's not always about compensation,
you know,
compensation is important now.
But that's not the only thing that workers associates are looking for.
(30:23):
Yeah,
I really love that you mentioned the younger generation at work because we do need them.
They are of course the future and there's this in a way artificial war of us versus them against the generation.
Like what generation are you part of?
How can we on social media drag you?
And so then we tell ourselves narratives about the new people who quote unquote,
(30:45):
don't want to work or who are lazy or the old people who are crusty and set in their ways.
And the fact of the matter is we need everybody at every decade they are in because they have some valuable insights into the people who are kind of like them and what they bring to the table and how much better we can be if we're not us versus them,
(31:10):
but us together.
So this mentoring and reverse mentoring.
How can you mentor new people?
But how can they mentor you.
Right,
seeing each other as really having really authentically,
having something valuable to bring to the table.
That's right.
And that we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't really want that and listen to it and also set civility standards because we have miscommunication.
(31:43):
What is that?
Because there is some legitimacy of,
if I've been in an organization for a very long time,
I have this certain set of standards and maybe somebody coming in has a different set and it's not that one is right or wrong necessarily,
they are different.
And if we don't communicate regularly and we don't listen to,
(32:08):
we might use the same words,
but we have different expectations behind them,
then how can we really see the other as not in other,
but as a part of a team and something we set the culture together.
So Joyce,
when you think about the different people that you've worked with or for who stands out or what experience stands out to you as really beneficial.
(32:37):
Something that was a real bright spot in the work that you've done and in your own personal development.
And what was so great about it for you?
Probably,
well,
two people come to mind.
One was one of my very early supervisors.
She was horrible.
But what I learned from that was how not to be.
(33:00):
So in every experience there are lessons,
the issue is,
do we learn them?
Right?
Do we pay attention to them.
But in every interaction,
their lessons.
And that's what I learned that one of my early supervisors,
(33:21):
it was just a horrible experience.
And so I said to myself,
when I become,
I'm not going to be that.
And all these years later,
I still remember that like it was yesterday.
And the second person was one of my early claim managers.
(33:46):
I was a front line manager and I reported to him,
he would not accept anything except my very best.
He was one of the first black claim managers.
I was one of the first front line managers.
And so uh we were both new in these roles and he just would not accept anything from me but my very best.
(34:18):
And I appreciate that because it kept me growing and paying attention.
And in that structure,
I could not afford to do anything less.
I couldn't afford not to give my best.
(34:39):
It is true that as a black woman,
I have always felt that it was necessary for me to give my best.
There was never any other option and always conscious of that.
(35:02):
And so those are the two people that I worked for that really inspired me,
right?
To be all that I could be.
And it's interesting that I,
I remember that,
you know,
at that point,
all I had was a high school degree diploma and my writing was not up to par and we used to have to do monthly reports.
(35:33):
And back then we dictated them,
right?
But there were only so many people who could transcribe so often I would handwrite them out and someone would type them up.
He would then call us in and talk to us about whatever results we had.
And he called me in to talk about my report.
(35:54):
And he said,
you know,
you don't talk like you write.
I was horrified.
I started taking writing classes when I got my master's in strategic communication.
I shared with him my thesis and he said he commented about that because he still remembers that conversation,
(36:20):
right?
He says,
you have become quite the writer and he's right.
I have.
And so he would not allow me to do anything but develop and succeed with the skills and talent and drive that I had.
I think that's wonderful,
how wonderful to have mentors to speak into our life and to encourage us to be our best self.
(36:45):
So how did he thread the needle from being encouraging and not overbearing or micromanaging?
Or you know,
some people expect the impossible.
So what did he do to really help you be your best self and not burden you with something that just wasn't possible.
(37:07):
I think it speaks to his management style and skill.
We both knew the claim business and he would encourage and coach without micromanaging.
That was something I learned from another manager not to do was to micromanage Right.
(37:32):
You have to trust people,
you have to believe in people.
And if you can't do that,
you probably shouldn't be in a leadership or a management role because it never ends well.
And so he believed in me,
he,
he knew the business,
he helped me learn the business.
(37:54):
He allowed me to make mistakes and to fail.
Right.
But always manage to bring me back on track.
Now,
it wasn't always easy.
I certainly cried a lot in his office and in meetings.
But again,
it's the resilience because I knew that the work was for my development.
(38:20):
It was what was necessary for me to become,
you know,
the claim manager that I envisioned myself to be and the leader of people that I envisioned myself to be because influence isn't always tied to titles a rose,
(38:45):
right?
And oftentimes some people think that that's where their power comes from,
but one doesn't have power until you give it away and you have to be willing to give it away.
And then once you've given it away,
you have to be willing to trust and to believe that people will carry the torch for lack of a better term and that they will do the right thing.
(39:16):
That's where selecting leaders and developing leaders and managers becomes important.
I like what you said about this.
You've talked about vision a couple of times in different ways,
but you had this vision for yourself to help you to grow and develop,
(39:36):
which means that you needed to be resilient to do the hard work.
And you also mentioned earlier in our conversation about when we hire having people on board with the,
the vision and the mission of the organization and that's very important.
And so I,
I would want to help hopefully people to really think about what is their vision for themselves,
(40:00):
who do they want to be,
who do they want to become?
And what is the vision and mission of their organization?
And how can they come alongside that?
So that when they look at the difficulties,
they have a real reason to resolve them and if they don't,
maybe it is time to look for a different organization.
(40:21):
Mhm.
Absolutely.
I think I knew that I wanted to be successful.
I was just a big old country girl from Northwest Tennessee.
You know,
Allstate was my first and only job really.
I did work six months for Monsanto.
But I don't count that because six months wasn't very long and I wanted to make a difference.
(40:47):
I wanted to make a difference in my life and in the lives of those that I,
I had a vision.
Right.
And I needed to really try and go back to school and keep taking those courses,
you know,
and now I have three degrees,
you know,
and I am a good writer and I think I have made a difference,
(41:12):
you know,
many of the young folks that I've hired over the years,
many of them have surpassed where I ended up as a senior manager.
You know,
a couple of them are vps in Claim Department,
but that's what we want.
At least that's what I wanted.
(41:33):
Right.
And I'm happy for him.
Well,
Joyce,
let's end on that note about vision.
So when you look into the future of work,
what do you think needs to happen so that every person is treated with dignity and respect,
but more than that encouraged to flourish and thrive.
(41:56):
And that sounds like something out of a sci fi sci fi movie.
Uh But I am a sci fi fan.
So I think as a society,
we're going to have to become more comfortable with inclusion and diversity.
(42:17):
And as a society,
we are not there yet.
And until we can do that work is just a stubbs that of our larger society.
And it is from the larger society that we bring people into the subset that we call work.
(42:46):
So if we can't deal with inclusion and diversity and bold and courageous conversations out here and acknowledge who we are and how we got here out here,
it will continue to impact what happens in the subset that we call work.
Hm Spo I think that's where it has to start.
(43:12):
It can't start at work.
It's going to have to start outside of work because work is just made up of the LA folks from the larger society.
And if we can't deal with those things out here,
how do we deal with them inside what we call work?
(43:32):
So I think working toward a more inclusive and diverse,
beloved community and to just not be afraid to repeat,
curious,
I'm not sure that will help us get there because I'm not sure enough people are willing.
(43:55):
I work.
Right.
But that's what I think has to happen.
Because once we do that in the larger society,
then it will just sort of perpetuate itself in these sets of society they call work or schools.
(44:20):
You know,
because the people that populate those places,
those environments,
they come prepared deal with that.
I,
I wonder because I'm an optimist by nature and,
(44:40):
and it's I,
you strike me as being an optimist and I wonder,
it just seems like such a long time to wait for culture to shift in order to bring about healthier work environments.
And,
but nonetheless,
that just may be what needs to happen.
I am a eternal optimist and I look at,
(45:02):
I have to hold on to hope even though it's hard and it can be discouraging.
And there are some days in my work when I just,
at the end of the day,
I just have to go to bed.
I don't want to listen,
watch TV,
listen to music.
I'm just done.
(45:22):
That's that self care piece that I,
I spoke of.
But the Cold hard truth is for me,
that's what I believe.
Until we can fix it in the larger society,
there will always be these struggles in these subsets of our society specifically that you and I have been speaking of within work environments,
(45:50):
because people bring their authentic and whole selves into those environments and they are who they are.
It's true.
And so until we can face and be willing to engage and be willing to expose ourselves,
(46:14):
I don't know how we fix it in work environments,
but I'm hopeful.
Yes.
And I think the younger generation,
they give me hope.
Yes.
Um we are leaving them a mess,
but I'm hopeful and those coming behind me are the source of a lot of my,
(46:42):
in my energy because we've not done a good job of engaging in our larger society of trying to understand and accept and acknowledge how and who America is and how we all move forward together.
Because if we can't move forward together,
(47:03):
we won't move forward.
Yeah,
I absolutely agree.
Well,
let's end on that hope note because I agree.
I absolutely agree.
There is bright hope and it does take willingness to do hard things,
which means we all need to develop the virtue of courage.
And I think the virtue of hope,
(47:23):
I have a saying that I share with that I mentor and it's you have to have will and courage.
You got to have those two things.
And without them,
you'll flee you.
You won't be able to engage in those courageous conversations.
And so the will,
(47:45):
the intent and the courage we need more of and hope.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Joyce.
Thank you so much for your time today.
It's been such a joy,
speaking with you.
Thank you.
I've had a good time.
Hopefully,
we've shared some nuggets that people can take away and it will help them.
(48:06):
It has been my pleasure to spend a few minutes with you.
Thank you.
Thank you,
Joyce.
I have learned so much from my conversations with you in particular.
I have been thinking a lot about personally by how I deal with conflict and about how I do flee from my body and listener though I talk about and think about and write about conflict and talk to people about conflict.
(48:31):
I am in process.
I am still learning.
It is a journey and so I encourage you to go on that journey for you about how to deal with conflict in a fruitful way so that you can be the person that you want to be and have the authentic relationships that you want as well personally and at work.
(48:53):
So,
thank you,
Joyce.
That piece of advice has really been sticking with me.
Conflict managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictrestoration.com.
Please come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday and this is the first episode of 2024.
(49:16):
We have a,
a great lineup for this new year.
So come and be with us and think about how to have healthier work environments.
If you haven't had a chance to check out my new book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (49:27):
Tips to Ensure Failure,
I encourage you to pick up a copy.
It examines what not to do at work and what to do.
Instead,
how can we have healthy work environments?
How can we spend time in self reflection about what we're doing?
Right.
And where we need to grow and also how can we have conversations with those around us so that we can talk about what it means to be civil in the workplace.
(49:54):
Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot. And remember,
conflict is normal and to be expected.
So let's deal with it. Until next time.
Take care.
So.
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