Ron starts this episode talking about a chat with a friend at his Cross Fit gym regarding leasing versus buying a vehicle; which is better? He opens the phones today with a call on a 2020 Ford F250 Super Duty Pickup truck where the caller changed the fuel filter and then had some problems getting the truck to start & run. Ron goes over some of the resolution options and ends up pointing out flaws by design in the priming procedure; as published by Ford Motor Company. Next, Ron travels down South and takes a call on a 2017 Chevrolet 1500 Silverado that was recently purchased from a car rental company fleet. The engine had problems with the AFM (Active Fuel Management) system and needed valvetrain repair. The caller opted for AFM elimination with a different camshaft and lifters along with a software upgrade. Since then it has other issues and he needs Ron's help to gain a diagnostic direction. The Car Dr concludes the hour "In The Shop" courtesy of AutoZone talking about marine batteries and their availability.
Visit us at https://www.cardoctorshow.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ronanian that wiper motors. You say, well, how complicated could
this be? It's just a wiper motor. If this was
thirty years ago, Yeah, okay, I could. I could back
that statement up and agree with that statement. What's there
to it?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
But it's not.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I got a nineteen, it got a three hundred.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
You know, it's way found on the other states the
Car Doctor.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
A couple of months ago, I found an unmodified, pilot
owned garage kept two thousand and eight Shelby GT. Five
hundred Mustang with two thousand miles on it, sitting in
an air conditioned garage in Arizona.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I couldn't resist at a BOYD good for you.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, The Car Doctor.
Since nineteen ninety one. This is where car owners the
world overturned to for their incative opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up
the phone and call in the garage.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Do orders are opening? But I am here to take
your calls at eight five five five six ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hundred and nah hee.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Running.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
There's a lot of places I could start and talk
about today as we kick off this hour, Where do
I Where do I begin? I think I want to
start here because I thought this was an interesting topic.
Call it. My buddy at the gym this week sort
of discovered who I am and what I do. Uh,
you know, we kind of backed into the conversation. We
(01:38):
started talking about cars, and one thing led to another,
and college listening to the podcast now, so you know,
I said to my you know, you never know, I
might talk about this topic on air, and then I'll
become the podcast and so here I am.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Call it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I told you I talk about it. He asked me
a question as he is looking to replace his Honda,
and the question was does he lease, does he buy?
Or does he hang on to the car that he's got.
You know, leasing versus buying is a big question, and
I don't think you can answer it from one perspective.
I think it's a I think it's a multi perspective
(02:13):
type of question because it's a multi perspective issue. Leasing.
To me, my perspective is, you know, it's just another
way to afford a car, all right, And it's a
matter of you're going to replace your vehicle and you're
going to get another one, and what does it costs,
(02:34):
what's what's the outlay? How much do you have to
put down? What's the monthly payment? What are the terms
that you negotiate? How long are you going to rent
that automobile? Because that's what you're doing. You're renting it.
You're not keeping it for longer than typically two and
a half to three years, all right, And it used
to be a real sweet deal. Leasing was desirable going
(02:56):
back a few years, more than a few years, right,
you could lease a decent for three hundred bucks, four
hundred bucks. Now I'm seeing lease numbers seven fifty to
twelve hundred dollars for a lease, which is crazy, and
you end up with nothing. Now, you know, maybe you're
in a cash flow position where seven eight hundred dollars
(03:19):
a month for a lease doesn't bother you. Hey zeich
go zunez. They say good luck to you, But you know,
is that the best deal economically? See this is the perspective.
Only you can answer that, because only you know your finances.
But you have to understand going in that you're going
to be laying out that that's seven or eight hundred
(03:40):
dollars a month for three years. You're probably putting down
somewhere between three and five thousand dollars, and you're not
getting that back. If you're a business, you're writing it off.
If you're you know, if you're making half a million
dollars a year, seven hundred a month isn't a big deal.
If you're like the average American and you're making a
(04:03):
whole lot less than that, that's seven hundred a month.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Geez, I remember when a mortgage payment was seven hundred
dollars a month, and that's sort of flown out the
window too. So you know, from a financial perspective, I
think least versus buying, you've got it. It's crunching the numbers. Now,
take a fifty thousand dollars automobile. I don't care what
it is, brand X. Let's buy it. If we buy
(04:29):
that car, all right, And I know this from someone
I saw go through it not too long ago. If
you buy a fifty thousand dollars automobile, round numbers and
you put down thirty grand, which would be sitting in
the bank, or you're investing it in a T bill.
I think T bill is right now, are about five
percent you'd make your interest. But let's say you're gonna
(04:51):
take it out, and you're going to you're gonna spend
thirty grand. You'd have to subtract the interest you would
make every year. And I'm not going to do the
math here on air, but just to give it to
you as an example, if you take thirty grand and
put that down against the fifty and financed twenty at
two and a half percent interest, your car payment's about
five hundred a month for four years at least. You
(05:12):
end up with something though at the end, and you
have a vehicle that's worth something, which you know, depending
on what you buy, if you bought a Toyota, for example,
it probably retained its value really well. And you know
at the end of that four year loan when it's
paid off, you keep it into year five, year six,
maybe it's probably worth still a pretty penny because things
(05:35):
have gone up. But you have to come up with
a thirty grand. See, that's that's the catch. What I've noticed,
and what I hear from a lot of people is
that in order to afford cars right now, a lot
of you, you know, not a lot of you have
that thirty grand liquid sitting in a t bill somewhere
and a lot of you are going into in you know,
(05:56):
four oh one ks and investment accounts and things like that,
and that's a sign of the times. And I can't
I can't talk about that financially because everything is different.
It would take too much time. So let's just take
it from the perspective. Hey, you're gonna buy a car.
You decided you're gonna buy a car. Leasing's not for
you when you do the math, and you'd have to
(06:17):
do the math in your individual case. It's too expensive.
So you're not gonna You're either gonna buy the car
or you're gonna keep your old one. You buy that car,
Understand everything that I'm about to say about maintaining the
old one begins at about model year three or four,
all right, Because buying a new car doesn't mean you're
not spending any money on a car. You're spending what
(06:38):
that car sells for. Fifty grand, forty grand, all right,
whatever the number is. Because used cars are just a
whole nother story. And I guess I could talk about
that one day, and maybe I will today, the whole
used car thing. What I think of that, And you
know it sort of ties too. That's a whole another
big conversation about you know, the customer that doesn't seem
(07:00):
to get it, that wanders from shop to shop with
that undesirable car that nobody can quote unquote fix. When
it's reality, it's the customer that's broken. But that car
you're going to keep, what do you want to think
about doing to it? Well, in my book, if we
were standing at the counter at the shop, I'd be
telling you at thirty thousand miles service begins, you're doing
(07:22):
oil changes prior to that, and you're doing tire rotations,
and somewhere in the fifteen to twenty thousand mile mark
you're going to do airon cabin filters, and hopefully every
oil change you're at least every oil change you're adding
a bottle of fuel, system cleaner, great, great, preventive maintenance,
all those things right up to the thirty mark. At
thirty most cars you're starting to think about fluids. You're
(07:44):
starting to think about maybe you're changing trans fluid. If
you're driving a four wheel drive vehicle and you're in
rough country, you're using it a lot of highway, you're
beating it up in a high heat condition, you're down Texas,
you're in Florida. You're in southern California, you're changing different
prential fluid because if it's synthetic, Yeah, I know, synthetic
is a good stable fluid and it lasts a long time.
(08:06):
And I heard all the great things about synthetic fluid,
but typically I also see a lot of synthetic gear
oils burn up quickly and discolor. And you know that's
the vehicle that in the sixty seventy thousand mile mark
goes through a differential. And that's the goal here, right.
You know, if we over medicate, if we over prescribe,
but we don't have to repair something and change a
(08:27):
major component, doesn't that come back as a positive? Isn't
that like a good thing? So we start thinking about
at thirty air and cabin filters, a formal fuel system
cleaning where we're gonna hook a machine up and either
use a fogging through the intake or tie it into
the fuel rail. If it's a port fuel motor, fogging
(08:48):
is generally done on GDI gasoline direct injection. Now, if
it's a late model Toyota. For the record, Toyota is
doing on a lot of their newer engines port fuel
and GDI. Technically you want to do both, so it
becomes a five hundred dollars service cleaning on average, all right,
because you're tying into both systems. And that's okay, because
(09:08):
we're going to go two hundred and fifty three hundred
thousand miles in this vehicle that we're trying to take
care of. So at thirty, it's fuel system maintenance, whatever
your vehicle calls for or applies to airon cabin filters.
Probably for the second time, you're gonna look at wiper blades.
You're going to make sure that the tires don't need
to be rotated if they do rotate them, all right,
you've been rotating tires typically every six to eight thousand miles,
(09:31):
depending upon how you drive, where you're drive, and what
you drive. And then we're gonna probably that's it. There's
not much more than that. We're not changing trans fluid
at thirty on the majority of cars on the road today,
we're not doing anything else. Maybe if it's four wheel drive, also,
we're going to change transfer case fluid, all right, and
then our next service starts to come up at sixty.
(09:52):
At forty five, it's the oil chains that you should
be doing, because you've done one or two in between,
and it's gonna be tire rotation, air and cabin again again,
depending upon climate environment. And then somewhere around sixty, that's
really the first big service on a lot of vehicles,
because that's where the majority of vehicles are going to
get a trans fluid change, are going to get the
same thing that they got at thirty. Some of them
(10:13):
are getting spark plugs. A lot of subar us call
for spark plugs at sixty and so on, and then
it repeats on out. What you've got to think about is,
and it's important, okay, is finding a mechanic that you
can sit and talk to and say, hey, here's what
I want to do. Too many people come into the
shop and I can tell they're bashful in a sense. Hey,
(10:36):
they're afraid to tell us what's wrong with the car.
That's a whole nother conversation also, But they're afraid to say, hey, ron,
I want to go to two hundred thousand miles. I
want to drive this car forever or at least a
quarter million miles, whichever comes first. And that's okay. You know,
you got to know what you want to do. It's
too late when you go to the mechanic at one
(10:56):
hundred thousand miles and all the cars had is oil chain,
entire rotations. Hey, I want to start to maintain the car.
You know in my eyes that car is half over
and that that first half was kind of hard on it.
And you know how committed are you to that car?
So it's simple stuff. It's fluids, it's filters, it's tire care,
(11:19):
it's brake inspection. By the time that vehicle has gotten
ninety thousand miles on it, if it was wet, everything's
been changed every fluid break, trans transfer case, differential and
so on, coolant, and you need to look at what
manufacturers recommendations are and use that as a guideline. You know,
some manufacturers go long on fluids because hey, I'm going
(11:42):
to sell you a car that's maintenance free until it's not,
and then when it breaks, hey, come buy another car.
All good things to talk about. We'll probably talk more
about it this hour. Let me pull over and take
a pause. I'm running any in the car doctor. I'll
be back right after this. Don't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
What's more fun than listening to Ron and Any and
the car Doctor and getting that car fixed right A
five to five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Give Ron a call. Now back to Ron. Hey, let's
get over to Jeff in California. Jeff, Welcome to the
car Doctor, sir. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Well? Thank you, Ron, I am sure appreciate everything you do.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I've learned a lot, thank you from me over the years.
I was changing the fuel filters on my twenty f
two fifty yesterday, followed the what I thought was the procedure,
got everything hooked back up, prime the system I had
twenty twelve before with the power stroke. So I did
(12:50):
the turn the key, you know, wait thirty seconds, did
that like six times? Started the truck up here. Ran
for about thirty seconds. Then I got a low fuel
pressure message on the dash and it quit. So I
(13:11):
reprimed it again, got a crank, no start, so I'm like, hmm,
I think I tried it again and then you know,
there was no leagus. There was nothing, so I thought, well,
so I pulled off the you know, the big filter
underneath you know there on the chassis again right, and
(13:34):
it was dry, and I'm like, hmmm, So I just
confirmed that I had you know, it was all motorcraft stuff.
That's all I used. Confirmed by the right part, reset it,
you know how it slides and locks into that little tray,
and made sure my gasket was all seated correctly, bolted
(13:57):
it back up there, went through priming process again. You know,
I can hear the fuel pump, right, hear it sound
like filling same thing, crank, no start. And then that's
when I panicked, and because I use this commercially for
my work, and I'm like, huh here it is sitting
(14:18):
in my driveway.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And now what oops?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, then I dial ron here I am yeah, well,
thank you. And so anyway, just basically sat there for
about thirty minutes, talk to my neighbor, and you know,
we're batting stuff off of each other. And then he said, oh,
(14:42):
there's got to be an air lock or someone like, well,
you know, I don't know, I know, but you know,
I'm not that. I'm not a mechanic tech. And so
I crawl undered again and did the drain petcock or
whatever it's called. And that time I did have some
fuel dripping out of it. So I ran through the
(15:03):
priming procedure again, and this time it started and ran.
So it fixed itself somehow.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you want to know why?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yes, please, Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't know that the procedure for bleeding and priming
is the same between twelve and twenty. I don't want
to assume that. Did you look at the procedure the same?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
No? I just I went to you know, the University
of YouTube, and most of the videos I saw was
just the procedure of changing out both filters, right, but
not me. I probably didn't finish it to follow the priming, right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know. And I don't have to tell you, Jeff,
that the diesel has gotten to be such a complicated
animal over the last ten years, you know, even five
it's it's been choked to death with stringent emission controls
and everything else that they've added to it. Heck, we
were standing there to a couple of two three year
old for diesel pick them up truck at the shop
(16:04):
the other day. You couldn't tell it was a diesel.
You know, it doesn't sound like a diesel anymore. There's
no engine noise. You're like, wow, hod they do that?
I will tell you that I would be concerned. Is
it was it primed? Was it led correctly. There's also
there's also a lot of documentation. You know, they've had problems.
(16:25):
For example, that engine, that system needs about five thousand
psi of fuel pressure to open the injectors. And you
can actually if you have a scan tool. Do you
have a scan tool for this truck, Jeff? That will
show you data stream?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I do. I have not. It's a hotel. I've used
it on my old one. But I don't know what
I'm looking at. Half Ton.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Well, you know what, It's a good time to learn, right, Listen.
One of the one of the things we all do
wrong is we wait till something's broken to learn how
it works. I'd rather know how it works. I'd rather
know how it works before I before it's broke. At least,
you know, I always tell you guys, right, I always
say you got to look at good so you know
what bad is. All right? Once you plug that scan
(17:10):
tool in and go look at the low fuel pressure reading,
all right, and depending upon it.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Now I go under make model.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, you're going to go into your make model, all right. Well,
well let me say it like this. The only way
you're going to see a particular piece of data under
OBD two is if the federal government mandates that it's
essential to maintain the emissions on that system. Whatever the
vehicle is, diesel gas, four GM, Chrysler or whatever. All right,
(17:42):
So that's the reason. Now, in a lot of cases
you will see an OBD two scan tool show you
a piece of information under one name, and the manufacturer
show it under another. Jeff, Sit tight, let me pull over.
Take this pause. When we come back, pick it up
where we left off. I'm Ronanini in the Car Doctor.
(18:02):
I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Don't go away, I come a first real sister. Lot
(18:39):
out the five and don play it's in the fingers.
Then was the summer of sixteen nine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, welcome back, Ronini in the Car Doctor. We're talking
with Jeff in California about his twenty f two fifty
four pick him up truck with a diesel. Jeff, you're
still there, sir, I am so when when you bled this,
let me back up a second. And by the way,
I commend you for changing the filters. I think that's great.
You know, we have a bunch of diesels we work
on and regardless of mile age, we're doing filters once
a year now, which I think is an important step
(19:12):
in you know, vehicle maintenance because to a diesel fuel
is everything. You know, we also do a fuel sample,
and I just wanted to point that out. Did you
happen to take a fuel sample when you pull the filters,
just to take a look and make sure what you
have in the tank is good and clean and correct?
Did you look at that all? Right?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Well? I did? I mean, I didn't, you know, send
it off? I just yeah. I but I like say,
on my old this truck is new to me, but
on my twenty twelve, I drive about sixty five thousand
miles a year, right, So I was changing that filter,
those fuel filters. I do it about every fifteen or
(19:52):
twenty thousand. Yeah, it's and it looked fine. Okay, you
know the fuel.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I don't think that's your problem here. I just
wanted to point that it for you and everyone else
to think about that, you know, while we've got it down. Listen,
I changed fuel filters on gasoline cars, gasoline or diesel,
but on gasoline cars. And we'll take a fuel sample.
We don't, you know, what are we looking at. You'd
be surprised what comes out of the tanks to some cars,
and it, you know, possibly foretells something that's about to
happen before it happens. And you know, we prevent the
(20:20):
problem from being stuck on the side of the road,
because being stuck on the side the roads a very
unforgiving place. Right. So indeed, you know when when this
wouldn't start? Can you tell me the procedure for bleeding
that you followed?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Well, I mean to you open the water separator valve
or petcock, whatever you want to call it, and underneath
and let that drain until it stops. And then then
you just do those however many six what are six
eight millimeters bolts right on the on that tray and
(20:58):
drop down the filter and then I just you know,
swap out the filter and bolt it back up and
then move on to the to the filter under the hood.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, but what do you do? What do you do
to prime it?
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Then? On the old one, and that's the same procedure
I follows on this one, then I would turn the
key on but not hit the starter, let it sit
there for thirty about thirty seconds, and let the fuel
pump run and you can hear it, and then it'll
cut off automatically after about thirty seconds, and I did
(21:35):
cycle that six.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Times, okay, and.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Then on the seventh one hit the starter and it's
part fired right up right.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Okay. That's I believe that is the same procedure for
the twenty. But I want to point out that if
you read the procedure, because I thought about this in
the break, if you read the procedure from Ford, you
know what they tell you. If the truck doesn't start
after three or six times of doing it, do it
another three times. You know it's so so guess what
(22:10):
you did the absolute right thing. You're smarter than the
Ford engineer. You just get more common sense. Though would
would not be the first time that something as silly
as that has happened, Jeff. So, but you're you're you're
clearly on the right path. Let me do this. Can
you send me an email Ron atcartdoctorshow dot com. I've
(22:30):
got a seven page document from one of the hotline
services that we use in the shop, and it talks
about all the all the things that happen with this
particular system as far as fuel contamination and low fuel
pressure warnings and things like that. And then if you
want get your scan tool out I will go back
and find the technical document that talks about low fuel
(22:52):
pressure PID and just get used to it. That way.
It's you know, you're a little gun shy and that's okay,
but this is your livelihood, brother, and let me see
if I can just hurt you up a little bit
and give you some more knowledge. And this way you're
stuck on the side of the road. Maybe you can't
fix it, but the guy that shows up, maybe you
can understand more of what he's trying to do and
see if what he's trying to do is write. If
you follow what I'm saying, you know, knowledge goes a
(23:12):
long way, which is something I've always believed in.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, that would be awesome, Ron, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yep, yeah, Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. Just shoot it
to me, say hey, Ron, it's Jeff from California, and
I'll find that I know it's at the shop. It's
in my diesel draw and I'll convert it into a
PDF and I'll shoot it off to you and you know,
away we'll go all right.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Kiddo, Okay, yeah, it's Jeff, but jss but oh.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Jess, Okay, So that's that's tough. Tom's big fingers again.
You know he keeps doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But thank you so much, you know in that email.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Now, all right, cool beans, you'd be good, have a
good rest of the weekend. Jess, thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Let's uh, let's go on over. Let's go talk to
John and Tennessee. Let's get started at least John. Welcome
to the car doctor, sir, how can I help?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hey Ron, Hey Tom, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What's bought a twenty seventeen Silverado five point three wt
from like a rental place, you know, like a HRK
rental tools, and bought it knowing the lifter was collapsed.
Did the AFM delete where you put a new cabin
at new Springs, et cetera, from a from a racing company,
(24:26):
had had a tune or tune it. Because I don't
have all that stuff and I keep getting unbalanced. Bank two,
not cylinder two, but Bank two. Checked the O two sensors.
They look alive and well both sides. I haven't slapped
them yet, and then looked at long term fueld trim
and short term field trim with a friend scanner. Again,
(24:47):
I'm looking at old car or broken car. Don't know
exactly what new car looked like, right, I don't remember
the numbers, but they didn't seem way out of acting
the scene above twenty five percent. Okay, So I pulled
the injectors, resealed them, put on the steels on them,
and still getting that code. The one thing I do
question this Every once in a while, I get an
EVAPP and I smell raw fuel. I'm wondering if there's
(25:10):
an EVAP system pouring raw feel into it, or do
I need to start with incheckers. I don't want to
just pour money.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, let's not. Let's let's back up a second.
So of course, the hard part here is, like you said,
we're looking at a broken car, right, and you know
what is what does good look like? What does new
look like?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And not to mention, we're not only looking at a
broken car, we're looking at a broken modified car. You
know that we've that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
We've that's what puts all the delomen.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
In, right, So that's you know, this is like, you know,
you've got one thousand and fifty dominated carburetor on a
two eighty three small block and you're sitting there going gee,
do I really need all this?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So that's that's an issue. Now let's talk about fuel trim.
Fuel trim's a basic a basic number. All right, let's
just talk about fuel trim in general. Remember high school
geometry and algebra where they showed us number lines and
positive and negative numbers. Ye, so zero's a balanced fuel mixture.
Now you got another car in the house, John.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
I do It's a jeep, but it's not a yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, okay, So if it's if that, if that was
a modern vehicle, it sounds like it's not. But if
that was a modern vehicle and we were looking at
fuel trim, zero or balanced fuel trim on that jeep,
because it's a different engine is going to technically be
different than what it is on the Silverado. Okay, if
we follow the theory that an engine is a big
(26:35):
air pump and you know, volume of air and fuel
required to operate, it is going to vary from engine
to engine to engine. Agreed, Yes, okay, so zero zero
in terms of your Silverado, zero's a balanced fuel mixture.
If they need to add fuel two based fuel trim,
you will see a positive number. If they need to
take fuel away. Under a specific condition, they will make
(26:57):
it a negative number. If zero row is a balanced
fuel mixture. And you start your Silverado up and it's
all warmed up. It's an operating temperature. It's in feedback operation.
No two sensors are working, it's enclosed loop and all
the good things. And we see a number of positive
fifteen to twenty percent at idle, but it goes away.
(27:19):
What does that tell you? U's wrong with the vehicle.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So to me, that sounds like it's running rich and
there's something something causing it to give too much fuel.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Backwards. Your you're backwards, you're one hundred and eighty out.
It's okay, listen, it's it's it's okay. I'll tell you what.
Sit tight, John, let me pull ever take the poise.
When we come back, we'll go back to geometry. I'm
running any in the car. Doctor, we'll return right after this.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Why this car is automatic, it's systematic, it's.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Dramatic.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
What's greased lightning?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Some geez? What's a four barrel car?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
For the days you're still there, John, Yeah, so was
one of the fault codes P zero fifty. He isn't, David,
I don't have.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
It and bring me apologize.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
The main one. The main one was the unbalanced bank
to in an evapp And like I said, you'd smell
like raw fuel with it. Remember looking at the fuel sims.
I don't again, I apologize I did, and so.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Let's let's yeah, that's all. That's okay.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Listen, you're trying, you know what, anybody that's trying to learn,
I'm always I'm always happy to, you know, help them.
You know what I learned all day long. It's remember
what Einstein said, if you think you got problems, you
have to look at mine. Uh, you know, and I
could imagine, can imagine his research and what he had
to figure out. So no, you know, so basic fuel trim,
(28:59):
we should see zero plus or minus ten percent at idle,
all right, standard warmed up engine, healthy engine, all things
being equal, right, So zero's a balanced fuel mixture. If
we're adding fuel, it's because it's running lean. If we're
taking fuel away, it's because it's running rich. So one
of the things you could do is just where's fuel trim?
What is it at idle? What is it? You know
(29:21):
over a pull? You know, drive it up to fifty
miles an hour. Where does long term and short term
fuel trim settle? And then you know, when they did
all this work. I imagine they did a reset, a fuel
a fuel trim reset, or didn't they. It's a it's
a question to ask one of the things I did.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I did the work and then I dropped it off
at a shop for.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
The for the tune.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Okay, okay, you know, do you have a relationship with
the shop, because I'm wondering if maybe not so much
for the EVAPP and the raw fuel smell concerns me
because that tells me there's likely a problem there. But
I'm wondering if you can eliminate the roal fuel smell
problem the EVAPP issue. Basically, what I would do is
I'd find the purge valve, which I believe comes up
(30:03):
on the driver's side of the engine. I think the
purge ove was sitting on the driver's side of the
intake up high. I would just I would just disconnect
the line and cap it all right, electrically electrically disconnect
the purge. You know, let's let's eliminate purge. We're gonna
set a fault code for it. But we know why
it's there, right. Sure, if we if we disconnect the
(30:24):
purge electrically and mechanically physically, then then if we're still
smelling fuel right, then we've got a fuel leak somewhere,
either either in an injector or a rail or something's
not you know, seated correctly, you know what? And then
what evapp fault do you have? Do you remember that?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
No? I want to do a writer? Or no?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Doesn't ring a bell? Forty one a P zero four
four two P zero four five six P zero. See
that's the problem. We're playing with numbers we don't know.
So let's attack this thing from a mechanical perspective. Let's
disconnect the purge. What does that do? But let's look
at fuel trim. Does it change fuel trim? Right? Let's
(31:12):
let's let's use fuel trim as a diagnostic tool. If
if fuel trim, if you think it's running rich, you're
expecting to see what negative numbers on short term fuel
trim warmed up at idle correct, That's.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Where I was getting it backwards?
Speaker 6 (31:25):
So yeah, right, okay, So if it's I if negative
numbers are rich, right, and you disconnect purge and you
see the fuel trim come up to zero or at
least move You know, if it's negative twenty and now
it's negative ten.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
It's moving right, it's going in the right direction. That
purge valve is contributing. There's there's something there to that theory,
that conversation, right. But but if it's not, then we've
got to sit down and diagnose that number. In the end,
treat this like a basic mechanical problem. Also, be aware,
write this down. GM has a piece of information out there,
(32:03):
it's PIP fifty four to ninety eight L and it
talks about a bunch of fault codes that you may
or may not be having p zero fifty D and
some of the other things that occur because of problems
with the injectors. This is that generation Silverado that had
massive injector problems, fuel system imbalance, cold start problems. The
other thing you can do is go look at freeze
(32:25):
frame and mode six data and see where does this
fault occur at what temperature? All right, if it's a
cold problem, that's going to be different than warm. So
do this. Get a bunch of this information together, get
some specific fault codes. Call me back next week and
we'll dive into this a little bit further and we
can kind of take it from there. John, I'm running
ay and the car doctor. I'll be back right after this.
(32:57):
Welcome back from any of the card. Hey, summer's coming.
Did you notice that it's a well summer driving season.
I can tell by the way people are driving that
they're hoping that it's summer, but it's not quite. So
that's a that's a conversation for a whole other day.
So just be aware the roads are getting crazy. But
you know what made me think about summer. You know,
summer's right around the corner. Let's go in the shop
(33:18):
courtesy of AutoZone is this week we had a request
for some batteries for someone's boat. And yeah, you know,
we we'll do that. You know, we'll supply some marine
batteries and you know, we're getting ready for it, getting
the boats ready, right, we're getting ready for summer. Memorial
Day is coming up real quick. And you know it's funny,
but I hadn't thought of this until Mike presented me
(33:39):
with a request for three specific batteries for his boat. Well,
we couldn't get them from our normal supply house where
we go for marine applications, and I was thinking about it,
and I said, well, geez, now what do I do.
I got to tell Mike he can't take his boat
out because he wanted to get it out for the
weekend to get it ready because, like I said, Memorial
Day is only a short ways away. And then I
thought of AutoZone and I went out to auto Zone. Now,
(34:01):
the issue is it's hard to look up parts for
a boat. You know, you can't go look it up
for a nineteen eighty five Stingray speedboat whatever, et cetera.
But I was able to take the part numbers and
I took Mike's part numbers and I cross referenced it,
and sure enough, AutoZone had marine application batteries, you know,
dural ast marine application batteries for this boat. And we
(34:24):
got three of those, and you know, AutoZone in the shop.
Once again, they do their thing and they came to
the rescue. So you can find out more online at
AutoZone dot com or AutoZone pro dot com. But if
you're looking to go boating and you can't find batteries
where you normally would think a photo zone, think of AutoZone,
think of durallest till the next time. I'm ronning Andy
in the car. Doctor. I want to thank you for
(34:45):
being with me this hour, and I hope you had
some fun and you learned something I did. I always do,
and I enjoy spending time together with you till the
next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See ya,
Si
Ronanian that wiper motors. You say, well, how complicated could
this be? It's just a wiper motor. If this was
thirty years ago, Yeah, okay, I could. I could back
that statement up and agree with that statement. What's there
to it?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
But it's not.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I got a nineteen, it got a three hundred.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
You know, it's way found on the other states the
Car Doctor.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
A couple of months ago, I found an unmodified, pilot
owned garage kept two thousand and eight Shelby GT. Five
hundred Mustang with two thousand miles on it, sitting in
an air conditioned garage in Arizona.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I couldn't resist at a BOYD good for you.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, The Car Doctor.
Since nineteen ninety one. This is where car owners the
world overturned to for their incative opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up
the phone and call in the garage.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Do orders are opening? But I am here to take
your calls at eight five five five six ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hundred and nah hee.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Running.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
There's a lot of places I could start and talk
about today as we kick off this hour, Where do
I Where do I begin? I think I want to
start here because I thought this was an interesting topic.
Call it. My buddy at the gym this week sort
of discovered who I am and what I do. Uh,
you know, we kind of backed into the conversation. We
(01:38):
started talking about cars, and one thing led to another,
and college listening to the podcast now, so you know,
I said to my you know, you never know, I
might talk about this topic on air, and then I'll
become the podcast and so here I am.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Call it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I told you I talk about it. He asked me
a question as he is looking to replace his Honda,
and the question was does he lease, does he buy?
Or does he hang on to the car that he's got.
You know, leasing versus buying is a big question, and
I don't think you can answer it from one perspective.
I think it's a I think it's a multi perspective
(02:13):
type of question because it's a multi perspective issue. Leasing.
To me, my perspective is, you know, it's just another
way to afford a car, all right, And it's a
matter of you're going to replace your vehicle and you're
going to get another one, and what does it costs,
(02:34):
what's what's the outlay? How much do you have to
put down? What's the monthly payment? What are the terms
that you negotiate? How long are you going to rent
that automobile? Because that's what you're doing. You're renting it.
You're not keeping it for longer than typically two and
a half to three years, all right, And it used
to be a real sweet deal. Leasing was desirable going
(02:56):
back a few years, more than a few years, right,
you could lease a decent for three hundred bucks, four
hundred bucks. Now I'm seeing lease numbers seven fifty to
twelve hundred dollars for a lease, which is crazy, and
you end up with nothing. Now, you know, maybe you're
in a cash flow position where seven eight hundred dollars
(03:19):
a month for a lease doesn't bother you. Hey zeich
go zunez. They say good luck to you, But you know,
is that the best deal economically? See this is the perspective.
Only you can answer that, because only you know your finances.
But you have to understand going in that you're going
to be laying out that that's seven or eight hundred
(03:40):
dollars a month for three years. You're probably putting down
somewhere between three and five thousand dollars, and you're not
getting that back. If you're a business, you're writing it off.
If you're you know, if you're making half a million
dollars a year, seven hundred a month isn't a big deal.
If you're like the average American and you're making a
(04:03):
whole lot less than that, that's seven hundred a month.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Geez, I remember when a mortgage payment was seven hundred
dollars a month, and that's sort of flown out the
window too. So you know, from a financial perspective, I
think least versus buying, you've got it. It's crunching the numbers. Now,
take a fifty thousand dollars automobile. I don't care what
it is, brand X. Let's buy it. If we buy
(04:29):
that car, all right, And I know this from someone
I saw go through it not too long ago. If
you buy a fifty thousand dollars automobile, round numbers and
you put down thirty grand, which would be sitting in
the bank, or you're investing it in a T bill.
I think T bill is right now, are about five
percent you'd make your interest. But let's say you're gonna
(04:51):
take it out, and you're going to you're gonna spend
thirty grand. You'd have to subtract the interest you would
make every year. And I'm not going to do the
math here on air, but just to give it to
you as an example, if you take thirty grand and
put that down against the fifty and financed twenty at
two and a half percent interest, your car payment's about
five hundred a month for four years at least. You
(05:12):
end up with something though at the end, and you
have a vehicle that's worth something, which you know, depending
on what you buy, if you bought a Toyota, for example,
it probably retained its value really well. And you know
at the end of that four year loan when it's
paid off, you keep it into year five, year six,
maybe it's probably worth still a pretty penny because things
(05:35):
have gone up. But you have to come up with
a thirty grand. See, that's that's the catch. What I've noticed,
and what I hear from a lot of people is
that in order to afford cars right now, a lot
of you, you know, not a lot of you have
that thirty grand liquid sitting in a t bill somewhere
and a lot of you are going into in you know,
(05:56):
four oh one ks and investment accounts and things like that,
and that's a sign of the times. And I can't
I can't talk about that financially because everything is different.
It would take too much time. So let's just take
it from the perspective. Hey, you're gonna buy a car.
You decided you're gonna buy a car. Leasing's not for
you when you do the math, and you'd have to
(06:17):
do the math in your individual case. It's too expensive.
So you're not gonna You're either gonna buy the car
or you're gonna keep your old one. You buy that car,
Understand everything that I'm about to say about maintaining the
old one begins at about model year three or four,
all right, Because buying a new car doesn't mean you're
not spending any money on a car. You're spending what
(06:38):
that car sells for. Fifty grand, forty grand, all right,
whatever the number is. Because used cars are just a
whole nother story. And I guess I could talk about
that one day, and maybe I will today, the whole
used car thing. What I think of that, And you
know it sort of ties too. That's a whole another
big conversation about you know, the customer that doesn't seem
(07:00):
to get it, that wanders from shop to shop with
that undesirable car that nobody can quote unquote fix. When
it's reality, it's the customer that's broken. But that car
you're going to keep, what do you want to think
about doing to it? Well, in my book, if we
were standing at the counter at the shop, I'd be
telling you at thirty thousand miles service begins, you're doing
(07:22):
oil changes prior to that, and you're doing tire rotations,
and somewhere in the fifteen to twenty thousand mile mark
you're going to do airon cabin filters, and hopefully every
oil change you're at least every oil change you're adding
a bottle of fuel, system cleaner, great, great, preventive maintenance,
all those things right up to the thirty mark. At
thirty most cars you're starting to think about fluids. You're
(07:44):
starting to think about maybe you're changing trans fluid. If
you're driving a four wheel drive vehicle and you're in
rough country, you're using it a lot of highway, you're
beating it up in a high heat condition, you're down Texas,
you're in Florida. You're in southern California, you're changing different
prential fluid because if it's synthetic, Yeah, I know, synthetic
is a good stable fluid and it lasts a long time.
(08:06):
And I heard all the great things about synthetic fluid,
but typically I also see a lot of synthetic gear
oils burn up quickly and discolor. And you know that's
the vehicle that in the sixty seventy thousand mile mark
goes through a differential. And that's the goal here, right.
You know, if we over medicate, if we over prescribe,
but we don't have to repair something and change a
(08:27):
major component, doesn't that come back as a positive? Isn't
that like a good thing? So we start thinking about
at thirty air and cabin filters, a formal fuel system
cleaning where we're gonna hook a machine up and either
use a fogging through the intake or tie it into
the fuel rail. If it's a port fuel motor, fogging
(08:48):
is generally done on GDI gasoline direct injection. Now, if
it's a late model Toyota. For the record, Toyota is
doing on a lot of their newer engines port fuel
and GDI. Technically you want to do both, so it
becomes a five hundred dollars service cleaning on average, all right,
because you're tying into both systems. And that's okay, because
(09:08):
we're going to go two hundred and fifty three hundred
thousand miles in this vehicle that we're trying to take
care of. So at thirty, it's fuel system maintenance, whatever
your vehicle calls for or applies to airon cabin filters.
Probably for the second time, you're gonna look at wiper blades.
You're going to make sure that the tires don't need
to be rotated if they do rotate them, all right,
you've been rotating tires typically every six to eight thousand miles,
(09:31):
depending upon how you drive, where you're drive, and what
you drive. And then we're gonna probably that's it. There's
not much more than that. We're not changing trans fluid
at thirty on the majority of cars on the road today,
we're not doing anything else. Maybe if it's four wheel drive, also,
we're going to change transfer case fluid, all right, and
then our next service starts to come up at sixty.
(09:52):
At forty five, it's the oil chains that you should
be doing, because you've done one or two in between,
and it's gonna be tire rotation, air and cabin again again,
depending upon climate environment. And then somewhere around sixty, that's
really the first big service on a lot of vehicles,
because that's where the majority of vehicles are going to
get a trans fluid change, are going to get the
same thing that they got at thirty. Some of them
(10:13):
are getting spark plugs. A lot of subar us call
for spark plugs at sixty and so on, and then
it repeats on out. What you've got to think about is,
and it's important, okay, is finding a mechanic that you
can sit and talk to and say, hey, here's what
I want to do. Too many people come into the
shop and I can tell they're bashful in a sense. Hey,
(10:36):
they're afraid to tell us what's wrong with the car.
That's a whole nother conversation also, But they're afraid to say, hey, ron,
I want to go to two hundred thousand miles. I
want to drive this car forever or at least a
quarter million miles, whichever comes first. And that's okay. You know,
you got to know what you want to do. It's
too late when you go to the mechanic at one
(10:56):
hundred thousand miles and all the cars had is oil chain,
entire rotations. Hey, I want to start to maintain the car.
You know in my eyes that car is half over
and that that first half was kind of hard on it.
And you know how committed are you to that car?
So it's simple stuff. It's fluids, it's filters, it's tire care,
(11:19):
it's brake inspection. By the time that vehicle has gotten
ninety thousand miles on it, if it was wet, everything's
been changed every fluid break, trans transfer case, differential and
so on, coolant, and you need to look at what
manufacturers recommendations are and use that as a guideline. You know,
some manufacturers go long on fluids because hey, I'm going
(11:42):
to sell you a car that's maintenance free until it's not,
and then when it breaks, hey, come buy another car.
All good things to talk about. We'll probably talk more
about it this hour. Let me pull over and take
a pause. I'm running any in the car doctor. I'll
be back right after this. Don't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
What's more fun than listening to Ron and Any and
the car Doctor and getting that car fixed right A
five to five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Give Ron a call. Now back to Ron. Hey, let's
get over to Jeff in California. Jeff, Welcome to the
car Doctor, sir. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Well? Thank you, Ron, I am sure appreciate everything you do.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I've learned a lot, thank you from me over the years.
I was changing the fuel filters on my twenty f
two fifty yesterday, followed the what I thought was the procedure,
got everything hooked back up, prime the system I had
twenty twelve before with the power stroke. So I did
(12:50):
the turn the key, you know, wait thirty seconds, did
that like six times? Started the truck up here. Ran
for about thirty seconds. Then I got a low fuel
pressure message on the dash and it quit. So I
(13:11):
reprimed it again, got a crank, no start, so I'm like, hmm,
I think I tried it again and then you know,
there was no leagus. There was nothing, so I thought, well,
so I pulled off the you know, the big filter
underneath you know there on the chassis again right, and
(13:34):
it was dry, and I'm like, hmmm, So I just
confirmed that I had you know, it was all motorcraft stuff.
That's all I used. Confirmed by the right part, reset it,
you know how it slides and locks into that little tray,
and made sure my gasket was all seated correctly, bolted
(13:57):
it back up there, went through priming process again. You know,
I can hear the fuel pump, right, hear it sound
like filling same thing, crank, no start. And then that's
when I panicked, and because I use this commercially for
my work, and I'm like, huh here it is sitting
(14:18):
in my driveway.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And now what oops?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, then I dial ron here I am yeah, well,
thank you. And so anyway, just basically sat there for
about thirty minutes, talk to my neighbor, and you know,
we're batting stuff off of each other. And then he said, oh,
(14:42):
there's got to be an air lock or someone like, well,
you know, I don't know, I know, but you know,
I'm not that. I'm not a mechanic tech. And so
I crawl undered again and did the drain petcock or
whatever it's called. And that time I did have some
fuel dripping out of it. So I ran through the
(15:03):
priming procedure again, and this time it started and ran.
So it fixed itself somehow.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you want to know why?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yes, please, Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't know that the procedure for bleeding and priming
is the same between twelve and twenty. I don't want
to assume that. Did you look at the procedure the same?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
No? I just I went to you know, the University
of YouTube, and most of the videos I saw was
just the procedure of changing out both filters, right, but
not me. I probably didn't finish it to follow the priming, right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know. And I don't have to tell you, Jeff,
that the diesel has gotten to be such a complicated
animal over the last ten years, you know, even five
it's it's been choked to death with stringent emission controls
and everything else that they've added to it. Heck, we
were standing there to a couple of two three year
old for diesel pick them up truck at the shop
(16:04):
the other day. You couldn't tell it was a diesel.
You know, it doesn't sound like a diesel anymore. There's
no engine noise. You're like, wow, hod they do that?
I will tell you that I would be concerned. Is
it was it primed? Was it led correctly. There's also
there's also a lot of documentation. You know, they've had problems.
(16:25):
For example, that engine, that system needs about five thousand
psi of fuel pressure to open the injectors. And you
can actually if you have a scan tool. Do you
have a scan tool for this truck, Jeff? That will
show you data stream?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I do. I have not. It's a hotel. I've used
it on my old one. But I don't know what
I'm looking at. Half Ton.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Well, you know what, It's a good time to learn, right, Listen.
One of the one of the things we all do
wrong is we wait till something's broken to learn how
it works. I'd rather know how it works. I'd rather
know how it works before I before it's broke. At least,
you know, I always tell you guys, right, I always
say you got to look at good so you know
what bad is. All right? Once you plug that scan
(17:10):
tool in and go look at the low fuel pressure reading,
all right, and depending upon it.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Now I go under make model.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, you're going to go into your make model, all right. Well,
well let me say it like this. The only way
you're going to see a particular piece of data under
OBD two is if the federal government mandates that it's
essential to maintain the emissions on that system. Whatever the
vehicle is, diesel gas, four GM, Chrysler or whatever. All right,
(17:42):
So that's the reason. Now, in a lot of cases
you will see an OBD two scan tool show you
a piece of information under one name, and the manufacturer
show it under another. Jeff, Sit tight, let me pull over.
Take this pause. When we come back, pick it up
where we left off. I'm Ronanini in the Car Doctor.
(18:02):
I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Don't go away, I come a first real sister. Lot
(18:39):
out the five and don play it's in the fingers.
Then was the summer of sixteen nine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, welcome back, Ronini in the Car Doctor. We're talking
with Jeff in California about his twenty f two fifty
four pick him up truck with a diesel. Jeff, you're
still there, sir, I am so when when you bled this,
let me back up a second. And by the way,
I commend you for changing the filters. I think that's great.
You know, we have a bunch of diesels we work
on and regardless of mile age, we're doing filters once
a year now, which I think is an important step
(19:12):
in you know, vehicle maintenance because to a diesel fuel
is everything. You know, we also do a fuel sample,
and I just wanted to point that out. Did you
happen to take a fuel sample when you pull the filters,
just to take a look and make sure what you
have in the tank is good and clean and correct?
Did you look at that all? Right?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Well? I did? I mean, I didn't, you know, send
it off? I just yeah. I but I like say,
on my old this truck is new to me, but
on my twenty twelve, I drive about sixty five thousand
miles a year, right, So I was changing that filter,
those fuel filters. I do it about every fifteen or
(19:52):
twenty thousand. Yeah, it's and it looked fine. Okay, you
know the fuel.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I don't think that's your problem here. I just
wanted to point that it for you and everyone else
to think about that, you know, while we've got it down. Listen,
I changed fuel filters on gasoline cars, gasoline or diesel,
but on gasoline cars. And we'll take a fuel sample.
We don't, you know, what are we looking at. You'd
be surprised what comes out of the tanks to some cars,
and it, you know, possibly foretells something that's about to
happen before it happens. And you know, we prevent the
(20:20):
problem from being stuck on the side of the road,
because being stuck on the side the roads a very
unforgiving place. Right. So indeed, you know when when this
wouldn't start? Can you tell me the procedure for bleeding
that you followed?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Well, I mean to you open the water separator valve
or petcock, whatever you want to call it, and underneath
and let that drain until it stops. And then then
you just do those however many six what are six
eight millimeters bolts right on the on that tray and
(20:58):
drop down the filter and then I just you know,
swap out the filter and bolt it back up and
then move on to the to the filter under the hood.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, but what do you do? What do you do
to prime it?
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Then? On the old one, and that's the same procedure
I follows on this one, then I would turn the
key on but not hit the starter, let it sit
there for thirty about thirty seconds, and let the fuel
pump run and you can hear it, and then it'll
cut off automatically after about thirty seconds, and I did
(21:35):
cycle that six.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Times, okay, and.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Then on the seventh one hit the starter and it's
part fired right up right.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Okay. That's I believe that is the same procedure for
the twenty. But I want to point out that if
you read the procedure, because I thought about this in
the break, if you read the procedure from Ford, you
know what they tell you. If the truck doesn't start
after three or six times of doing it, do it
another three times. You know it's so so guess what
(22:10):
you did the absolute right thing. You're smarter than the
Ford engineer. You just get more common sense. Though would
would not be the first time that something as silly
as that has happened, Jeff. So, but you're you're you're
clearly on the right path. Let me do this. Can
you send me an email Ron atcartdoctorshow dot com. I've
(22:30):
got a seven page document from one of the hotline
services that we use in the shop, and it talks
about all the all the things that happen with this
particular system as far as fuel contamination and low fuel
pressure warnings and things like that. And then if you
want get your scan tool out I will go back
and find the technical document that talks about low fuel
(22:52):
pressure PID and just get used to it. That way.
It's you know, you're a little gun shy and that's okay,
but this is your livelihood, brother, and let me see
if I can just hurt you up a little bit
and give you some more knowledge. And this way you're
stuck on the side of the road. Maybe you can't
fix it, but the guy that shows up, maybe you
can understand more of what he's trying to do and
see if what he's trying to do is write. If
you follow what I'm saying, you know, knowledge goes a
(23:12):
long way, which is something I've always believed in.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, that would be awesome, Ron, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yep, yeah, Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. Just shoot it
to me, say hey, Ron, it's Jeff from California, and
I'll find that I know it's at the shop. It's
in my diesel draw and I'll convert it into a
PDF and I'll shoot it off to you and you know,
away we'll go all right.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Kiddo, Okay, yeah, it's Jeff, but jss but oh.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Jess, Okay, So that's that's tough. Tom's big fingers again.
You know he keeps doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But thank you so much, you know in that email.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Now, all right, cool beans, you'd be good, have a
good rest of the weekend. Jess, thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Let's uh, let's go on over. Let's go talk to
John and Tennessee. Let's get started at least John. Welcome
to the car doctor, sir, how can I help?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hey Ron, Hey Tom, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What's bought a twenty seventeen Silverado five point three wt
from like a rental place, you know, like a HRK
rental tools, and bought it knowing the lifter was collapsed.
Did the AFM delete where you put a new cabin
at new Springs, et cetera, from a from a racing company,
(24:26):
had had a tune or tune it. Because I don't
have all that stuff and I keep getting unbalanced. Bank two,
not cylinder two, but Bank two. Checked the O two sensors.
They look alive and well both sides. I haven't slapped
them yet, and then looked at long term fueld trim
and short term field trim with a friend scanner. Again,
(24:47):
I'm looking at old car or broken car. Don't know
exactly what new car looked like, right, I don't remember
the numbers, but they didn't seem way out of acting
the scene above twenty five percent. Okay, So I pulled
the injectors, resealed them, put on the steels on them,
and still getting that code. The one thing I do
question this Every once in a while, I get an
EVAPP and I smell raw fuel. I'm wondering if there's
(25:10):
an EVAP system pouring raw feel into it, or do
I need to start with incheckers. I don't want to
just pour money.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, let's not. Let's let's back up a second.
So of course, the hard part here is, like you said,
we're looking at a broken car, right, and you know
what is what does good look like? What does new
look like?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And not to mention, we're not only looking at a
broken car, we're looking at a broken modified car. You
know that we've that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
We've that's what puts all the delomen.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
In, right, So that's you know, this is like, you know,
you've got one thousand and fifty dominated carburetor on a
two eighty three small block and you're sitting there going gee,
do I really need all this?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So that's that's an issue. Now let's talk about fuel trim.
Fuel trim's a basic a basic number. All right, let's
just talk about fuel trim in general. Remember high school
geometry and algebra where they showed us number lines and
positive and negative numbers. Ye, so zero's a balanced fuel mixture.
Now you got another car in the house, John.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
I do It's a jeep, but it's not a yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, okay, So if it's if that, if that was
a modern vehicle, it sounds like it's not. But if
that was a modern vehicle and we were looking at
fuel trim, zero or balanced fuel trim on that jeep,
because it's a different engine is going to technically be
different than what it is on the Silverado. Okay, if
we follow the theory that an engine is a big
(26:35):
air pump and you know, volume of air and fuel
required to operate, it is going to vary from engine
to engine to engine. Agreed, Yes, okay, so zero zero
in terms of your Silverado, zero's a balanced fuel mixture.
If they need to add fuel two based fuel trim,
you will see a positive number. If they need to
take fuel away. Under a specific condition, they will make
(26:57):
it a negative number. If zero row is a balanced
fuel mixture. And you start your Silverado up and it's
all warmed up. It's an operating temperature. It's in feedback operation.
No two sensors are working, it's enclosed loop and all
the good things. And we see a number of positive
fifteen to twenty percent at idle, but it goes away.
(27:19):
What does that tell you? U's wrong with the vehicle.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So to me, that sounds like it's running rich and
there's something something causing it to give too much fuel.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Backwards. Your you're backwards, you're one hundred and eighty out.
It's okay, listen, it's it's it's okay. I'll tell you what.
Sit tight, John, let me pull ever take the poise.
When we come back, we'll go back to geometry. I'm
running any in the car. Doctor, we'll return right after this.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Why this car is automatic, it's systematic, it's.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Dramatic.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
What's greased lightning?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Some geez? What's a four barrel car?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
For the days you're still there, John, Yeah, so was
one of the fault codes P zero fifty. He isn't, David,
I don't have.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
It and bring me apologize.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
The main one. The main one was the unbalanced bank
to in an evapp And like I said, you'd smell
like raw fuel with it. Remember looking at the fuel sims.
I don't again, I apologize I did, and so.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Let's let's yeah, that's all. That's okay.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Listen, you're trying, you know what, anybody that's trying to learn,
I'm always I'm always happy to, you know, help them.
You know what I learned all day long. It's remember
what Einstein said, if you think you got problems, you
have to look at mine. Uh, you know, and I
could imagine, can imagine his research and what he had
to figure out. So no, you know, so basic fuel trim,
(28:59):
we should see zero plus or minus ten percent at idle,
all right, standard warmed up engine, healthy engine, all things
being equal, right, So zero's a balanced fuel mixture. If
we're adding fuel, it's because it's running lean. If we're
taking fuel away, it's because it's running rich. So one
of the things you could do is just where's fuel trim?
What is it at idle? What is it? You know
(29:21):
over a pull? You know, drive it up to fifty
miles an hour. Where does long term and short term
fuel trim settle? And then you know, when they did
all this work. I imagine they did a reset, a fuel
a fuel trim reset, or didn't they. It's a it's
a question to ask one of the things I did.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I did the work and then I dropped it off
at a shop for.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
The for the tune.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Okay, okay, you know, do you have a relationship with
the shop, because I'm wondering if maybe not so much
for the EVAPP and the raw fuel smell concerns me
because that tells me there's likely a problem there. But
I'm wondering if you can eliminate the roal fuel smell
problem the EVAPP issue. Basically, what I would do is
I'd find the purge valve, which I believe comes up
(30:03):
on the driver's side of the engine. I think the
purge ove was sitting on the driver's side of the
intake up high. I would just I would just disconnect
the line and cap it all right, electrically electrically disconnect
the purge. You know, let's let's eliminate purge. We're gonna
set a fault code for it. But we know why
it's there, right. Sure, if we if we disconnect the
(30:24):
purge electrically and mechanically physically, then then if we're still
smelling fuel right, then we've got a fuel leak somewhere,
either either in an injector or a rail or something's
not you know, seated correctly, you know what? And then
what evapp fault do you have? Do you remember that?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
No? I want to do a writer? Or no?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Doesn't ring a bell? Forty one a P zero four
four two P zero four five six P zero. See
that's the problem. We're playing with numbers we don't know.
So let's attack this thing from a mechanical perspective. Let's
disconnect the purge. What does that do? But let's look
at fuel trim. Does it change fuel trim? Right? Let's
(31:12):
let's let's use fuel trim as a diagnostic tool. If
if fuel trim, if you think it's running rich, you're
expecting to see what negative numbers on short term fuel
trim warmed up at idle correct, That's.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Where I was getting it backwards?
Speaker 6 (31:25):
So yeah, right, okay, So if it's I if negative
numbers are rich, right, and you disconnect purge and you
see the fuel trim come up to zero or at
least move You know, if it's negative twenty and now
it's negative ten.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
It's moving right, it's going in the right direction. That
purge valve is contributing. There's there's something there to that theory,
that conversation, right. But but if it's not, then we've
got to sit down and diagnose that number. In the end,
treat this like a basic mechanical problem. Also, be aware,
write this down. GM has a piece of information out there,
(32:03):
it's PIP fifty four to ninety eight L and it
talks about a bunch of fault codes that you may
or may not be having p zero fifty D and
some of the other things that occur because of problems
with the injectors. This is that generation Silverado that had
massive injector problems, fuel system imbalance, cold start problems. The
other thing you can do is go look at freeze
(32:25):
frame and mode six data and see where does this
fault occur at what temperature? All right, if it's a
cold problem, that's going to be different than warm. So
do this. Get a bunch of this information together, get
some specific fault codes. Call me back next week and
we'll dive into this a little bit further and we
can kind of take it from there. John, I'm running
ay and the car doctor. I'll be back right after this.
(32:57):
Welcome back from any of the card. Hey, summer's coming.
Did you notice that it's a well summer driving season.
I can tell by the way people are driving that
they're hoping that it's summer, but it's not quite. So
that's a that's a conversation for a whole other day.
So just be aware the roads are getting crazy. But
you know what made me think about summer. You know,
summer's right around the corner. Let's go in the shop
(33:18):
courtesy of AutoZone is this week we had a request
for some batteries for someone's boat. And yeah, you know,
we we'll do that. You know, we'll supply some marine
batteries and you know, we're getting ready for it, getting
the boats ready, right, we're getting ready for summer. Memorial
Day is coming up real quick. And you know it's funny,
but I hadn't thought of this until Mike presented me
(33:39):
with a request for three specific batteries for his boat. Well,
we couldn't get them from our normal supply house where
we go for marine applications, and I was thinking about it,
and I said, well, geez, now what do I do.
I got to tell Mike he can't take his boat
out because he wanted to get it out for the
weekend to get it ready because, like I said, Memorial
Day is only a short ways away. And then I
thought of AutoZone and I went out to auto Zone. Now,
(34:01):
the issue is it's hard to look up parts for
a boat. You know, you can't go look it up
for a nineteen eighty five Stingray speedboat whatever, et cetera.
But I was able to take the part numbers and
I took Mike's part numbers and I cross referenced it,
and sure enough, AutoZone had marine application batteries, you know,
dural ast marine application batteries for this boat. And we
(34:24):
got three of those, and you know, AutoZone in the shop.
Once again, they do their thing and they came to
the rescue. So you can find out more online at
AutoZone dot com or AutoZone pro dot com. But if
you're looking to go boating and you can't find batteries
where you normally would think a photo zone, think of AutoZone,
think of durallest till the next time. I'm ronning Andy
in the car. Doctor. I want to thank you for
(34:45):
being with me this hour, and I hope you had
some fun and you learned something I did. I always do,
and I enjoy spending time together with you till the
next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See ya,
Si
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