March 25, 2024 • 16 mins
Ron welcomes first time guest Cody Smith of Cloyes Gear, manufacturer of timing chain components and gears. They chat about the do and don't of upkeep and talk in depth about timing chain design and use in today's engines.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Our next guest is no stranger to the automotive world
or the media. Cody Smith of Kloy's Gear is a
technical product director and also does a great deal of
the videos for social media, and he's a presenter at
various industry events around the country. You know, I've been
watching Cody from AFAR for a while now, and I've
been a longtime user of Kloy's as well. It's good
stuff and he's a great talent for the industry and
we're happy to have him here with us. Cody Smith,
(00:38):
Welcome to the Car Doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Sir, Hey, thank you on it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
You know timing chains, Uh, engines have timing chains, right,
they have to have a they have to have some
form of a timing component. If you were going to,
you know, give us a little timing chain one oh one,
explain it to the listeners. What is a timing chain?
What does it do? Well?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
The time and chain is pretty simply the you know,
the component that's going to connect your crank shaft up
to your cam shafts and keeps keeps the engine timing correct.
You know, automotive timing systems that have gone through many
transitions over the years. You know, commonly and antique vehicles
you're gonna you're gonna find, you know, gear to gear
type timing sets. You know, that transitioned into the common
(01:17):
three piece timing sets that everybody kind of traditionally knows
in your small block chevrolets, you know, direct from the
crank up to the cam and a push rob D
eight and then you know, uh, you know, the modern
era seeing the timing belt be introduced. You know, and
that kind of occurred due to you know the proliferation
(01:40):
of overhead cam engines where you had a much longer
distance between the crank to the cam shafts.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Why not, Tody, Cody, Why didn't they stay with timing belt?
You know, they went, they went from chain, they went
to belt, and then now they're back to chain again,
and they're back to belt again. You know, why does
it vary so much? Is it? Is it the engine
design that creates difference in the need.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, the engine design and really the technology. I mean,
the biggest reason why we're seeing timing chain systems in
modern vehicles was the introduction of variable valve timing. So
variable vout timing is typically oil pressure operated, so you know,
with that being said, the vvts need to be inside
of the oil, you know, the crank face the oil back.
So you know, once the introduction of that technology kind
(02:24):
of took over, everything's shifted back to a timing chain
system underneath the time and cover.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So back up a second now, you know, forty years ago,
we'll use a small block Chevy. It was kind of
like a bicycle sprocket, right, you had a big gear,
a little gear. You know, it was like a bicycle chain.
You had a chain that you know, connected the two
sprockets together. Basic timing chain componentry. And then within the
last ten years now we have engines that'll have you know,
(02:49):
four cams and one crank or four cams one crank,
an idler attention or drive the water pump. You know,
all of a sudden, that timing chain is is the
essential backbone of the engine, right, and it's it's added
more stress and more it does more of a job.
(03:10):
You know, have has the amount of timing chain. Obviously
the responsibility of the chain is gone up. Do you
see more timing chain failures as a result of that
added stress?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh for sure, for sure. You know, like like you said,
it can drive with the four four cans, you know,
and sometimes you have multiple chains inside the engine to
do that. You know, a three chain system or even
a four chain system is definitely possible. So yeah, just
the demands on the modern system with the BBT operation,
like you said, water driving a water pump, driving a
(03:42):
balance chaff, driving an oil pump. Just the demands on
time and chain systems or are way more than they
used to be, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So if you know, in a shortened sentence of if
there's something the consumer out there listening or the shops
out there that are listening to get their customers to do,
what sort of maintenance can people do to help promote
the life of a timing chain Because it's not something
you can reach in and and grease or lubricate or
you know, it's not a it's not a service item
during the during the course of an oil change, for example.
(04:12):
But there are things that people can do to extend
the life of a timing chain.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Right Yeah. Oil oil oil is going to be the
number one, the number two, and the number three things
that they can do to uh, to to keep a
timing chain system healthy. Uh. The oil oil is critical
both pressure and supply the timing chains all need to
be properly lubricated. You have metal links, you know, combined
with metal pins you know, working together, so naturally, over
(04:37):
time there's going to be ware and then you know,
your your time and chain tensioners to keep the chain
tight and you know, keep keep instability from occurring.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They all require a massive amount of oil to keep
that chain you know, properly tensioned. And then like like
I mentioned, modern variable of out timing systems also are
are heavily dependent on oil supply. Without that oil supply,
you can get instability in that EVT system, which is
going to cause damage to the time and change system
as well.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So let's talk about that for a minute. You know,
let's we're gonna pick on Ford here and listen, we
could pick on any of the engine manufacturers. They all
have their issues with vv T. Ford has known issues
with their variable valve timing actuators. Now Kloise makes replacements, right,
and that's that's a pretty big that's a pretty big task.
It's not easy to go against Ford engineering and say hey,
we're making a better mouse trap, right, you know what
(05:26):
sort of engineering. You know, It's not like if it
happened on Monday. By Tuesday, you don't exactly you can't
have the part ready to go out the door. What
sort of lead time does it take? You know, Ford
decides you you start to look at engines as they
fail and break down, you know, is it is it
three months to market? Is it six months to market?
And and what's sort of some of the steps that
you have to go through to verify that what you're
(05:47):
doing is actually competent, if not better, And with cloys
it's always better.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, So kind
of in the aftermarket, we had the benefit of some hindsight,
you know, applications that were developed to have been on
the market for a while. We see the issues, we
see some of the solutions that maybe the OE manufacturers
come up with along the way to help those you know,
initial problems that the new platform may have. Being an
(06:12):
internal engine component, we're not coming to market with products
as quick as you know a break pad manufacturer may
may do. You know, a lot of times, an internal
engine component's going to be covered by the power training
warranty for for much longer than you know, most most
product lines are. So we've got a little bit of
benefit there. We've we've got time to kind of study applications, uh,
study you know, uh uh you know, uh fixes from
(06:36):
the oe manufacturer and come up with a good solution
when when necessary to correct some of these issues.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So do the manufacturers come and talk to you guys?
Do they you know, recognize you who for what you
are and who you are and say, hey, we've got
this problem. How can we make it better? Have you
ever had that opportunity?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Well, well, Kloy's is an oe manufacturer. We we've worked
with Forward and GM and Nissan and many others and
the past, so there is a relationship there. But yeah,
a lot of times we're looking at what they've done
on their own to find solutions in the aftermarket.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So when you know, Fords vvt actuators, it's a problem
right on the trucks and such are the engines that
I have. It is it the actuator itself or is
it more a case of people aren't doing you know,
the three reasons of or the three levels of maintenance
oil oil oil? Are they Are they doing cheap oil
changes and correct oil changes? You know, too long of
(07:30):
an oil change interval, and it's just beating the actuators
up and they don't work.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, it can kind of be a combination of everything.
You know, maintenance is absolutely critical. You know on the
Ford phasers that have the real bad you know reputation
on the forward like five point four liters three valve engines,
those those suffered a lot from camshaft journal where and
the VVT actuators are fed from the salinoid through the
(07:57):
camshaft journal into the camshaft and to get the oil
supply to the phasers up front, and a lot of
those we're suffering some camshaft journal where which is not
allowing the oil supply to it properly reached the DBT.
And then we did some things in the aftermarket on
the closure replacements to help in situations like that for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So in this day and age of tight supply chains, right,
it's a it's a it's a tight supply line out there.
You know. Today in the shop, we couldn't get oil filters.
You ever hear of a car called Honda. We were
out of Honda oil, you know, we couldn't get we
could and we buy them by the case. The supply
house was out of Honda oil. Filters for today, today
(08:36):
and tomorrow, probably won't see a shipment until Friday, and
you know at what point and how, you know, does
that affect toys? You know, you've got to get to
the stage where you're going to you know, you can't
get certain componentry and you're always sourcing, sourcing, sourcing. Have
you changed how you you know, create these kits that you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Make, Well, there's definitely been changes. Know, I will say,
Klois was you know, uh leading the industry when it
comes to fill rates during during the COVID you know
time period. They did a wonderful job preparing for it,
having multiple sources for for components, to be prepared for
situations like that and just you know, working on our
feet to to get you know approved, you know, pushed
(09:19):
products through the approval process, you know, to ensure that
we had parts to supply our customers.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, Yeah, because it's it's critical you guys are you
guys are so big. You know, you're like the unsung
supplier behind the scenes that nobody sees. And you know
it's when Kloise runs out of something, it's a problem
because a lot of the industry comes to a halt,
especially engine assembling without engines, we can't put vehicles together
and without vehicles, but we don't have an economy, you know,
(09:47):
new war views, right.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, we we we run into many issues where
the oe manufacturers were back ordering, chained. They were six
months behind, you know, six months turned into a year
real quick. And we were keeping vehicles on the road
just just on our own, just just because we had
parts and nobody else did.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I bet you. Hey, Cody, let's pull over, take
a pause, let me let me, let me ask you
to sit tight for a minute. I'm Ron Anie in
the Car Doctor. I'm here talking with Cody Smith of
Kloy's Gear and Product. We're gonna both take a pause
and be right back after this. Don't go away, and
(10:51):
we're back. Welcome back, ronnin Aenie and the Car Doctor.
We're here talking with Cody Smith of Toys Gear and Product. Cody,
welcome back, sir, thanks for sticking around. Can we talk
a little bit about replacement interval? You know, is there
a replacement interval for for timing change and components? Mean,
what parts fail first? Is there something the listeners should
be aware of?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, I mean there kind of is, and there kind
of is, and I mean chain systems will fatigue before
the expected lifespan of an engine, but don't expect a
vehicle manufacturer to provide you a replacement interval for you know,
time and chain systems like they would on a on
a belt system. Time and chain systems really aren't considered
by manufacturers as an internal engine component or they are,
(11:34):
you know, considered an internal engine component, so you know,
the interval is just not provided like like they would
on a belt. The expected lifespan, you know, kind of
greatly depends on the oil system health for sure, but
also the engine design and you know, demands placed on
the engine.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Is is it acceptable? You know, I mean, can we
get an engine to two hundred thousand miles and maybe
it doesn't need anything, but it's had, it's had the
three levels of maintenance oil, oil, oil, and then and
then and then you know the other engine, you know,
the other the identical vehicle at one hundred thousand miles.
You know, yeah, we went to ten thousand miles on
one oil change and we went to twelve on the other,
(12:12):
and then we did one at six and then we
did one at eight and yeah, it wasn't you know,
maybe we didn't use the best oil we could find.
We kind of didn't worry about manufacturerspect is that the
one that is more likely at the one hundred thousand
mile mark that need that timing chain or have a
stretch chain or guide failure and all the other possible
ways that chains go bad.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, But there's definitely other factors there.
You know, manufacturers are constantly trying to reduce like noise,
vibration and harshness and reduce you know, rotating mass. No, no,
two timing systems are the same, So you're naturally going
to find systems that don't hold up as well as
others do. So those MVH initiatives, they have a huge
(12:53):
impact on the design of a timing change system. So
some chain systems are just designed to withstand a little
more abuse than theres are, you know. And then you said,
of course oil change inter rules and maintenance is huge.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Does does coolant you know, correct coolant coolant service a
properly operating cooling system. You know, an engine that's running
a little hotter than it's supposed to, is that going
to have an effect on timing chain componentry somehow.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Some way, I mean it definitely could you know, I
would consider kind of the impact on the oiling system
when when you're speaking to you know, engine operating temperatures
and things like that, right, you know, so of course,
a good healthy operating oil system it proper. You know,
oil temperatures is going to lubricate better than you know and.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Otherwise, so everything everything comes back to maintenance, right, just
just just keep doing what they're doing. Oil change is
coolant service probably even fuel system cleaning, keeping the engine
running balanced and clean. A good PCV system everything comes
back to affecting oil life and uh and its ability
to lubricate and do what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And yeah, yeah, yeah, and you nailed it on the
PCBs them, you know, engines that have issues with PCV
or definitely you know that you're going to see hand
in hand TCV issues with with time and chain issues.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Sure, so Cody in our last in our last minute
and a half kloise. They make some common kits. Now, right,
what are some of the common engines? I mean, you
guys cover everybody, but what are some of the big
sellers right now that Cloys has come to market with.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Oh, you know, we've got a full Oe replacement line.
We cover over ninety percent of all you know vehicles
in the North American market. You know, of course, most
commonly are our heavy hitters are going to be like
the GM High Future re six that you know had
timing system issues from the start. The Ford three five
Ford three point five Eco boost applications and even the
(14:41):
front will drive three fives are are big because of
the driving of the water pump, and water pumps typically
have a little sooner replacement interval than the timing system,
so a lot of times the system getting replaced as
a preventative measure. And of course GM Eco tech is huge.
And then we still see a ton of the Ford
model deular applications, even though it seems like they hadn't
(15:02):
built that engine now in fifteen years, but we're still
still a bunch of those things.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, And I guess I guess that's because there's just
so many of those vehicles still out there on the road.
And you know, you can you compare the price of
a new pickup truck sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars to
the place of a you know, a timing chain overhaul
a couple of grand It sure makes sense, right.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yep, especially with the price of views vehicles and new
vehicles now right yep.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Hey Cody, where can the listeners go get more information
if they want to, you know, read more about Kloys
And may you possibly see you on your YouTube channel?
You big star you.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, Just visit our website at kloys dot com
our YouTube channel. Just just search Kloys on YouTube and
that should pull right up. And if you really want
to keep up to date with new you know, videos
and product offerings, you can join our shop master's community
on our website at kloys dot com. We'll send you
a news newsletter about once a month. We're not going
to fill your inbox full of clutter, but but that'd
(15:57):
be the best way to really keep up with what
we've gotten.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
New cool being Cody, It's been an absolute pleasure, sir.
We'll get you back again real soon. You have a
great rest of the weekend.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
You too, Thanks, Ron, You're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I'm running any and the Car Doctor. We're back right
after this. Don't go away.
Our next guest is no stranger to the automotive world
or the media. Cody Smith of Kloy's Gear is a
technical product director and also does a great deal of
the videos for social media, and he's a presenter at
various industry events around the country. You know, I've been
watching Cody from AFAR for a while now, and I've
been a longtime user of Kloy's as well. It's good
stuff and he's a great talent for the industry and
we're happy to have him here with us. Cody Smith,
(00:38):
Welcome to the Car Doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Sir, Hey, thank you on it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
You know timing chains, Uh, engines have timing chains, right,
they have to have a they have to have some
form of a timing component. If you were going to,
you know, give us a little timing chain one oh one,
explain it to the listeners. What is a timing chain?
What does it do? Well?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
The time and chain is pretty simply the you know,
the component that's going to connect your crank shaft up
to your cam shafts and keeps keeps the engine timing correct.
You know, automotive timing systems that have gone through many
transitions over the years. You know, commonly and antique vehicles
you're gonna you're gonna find, you know, gear to gear
type timing sets. You know, that transitioned into the common
(01:17):
three piece timing sets that everybody kind of traditionally knows
in your small block chevrolets, you know, direct from the
crank up to the cam and a push rob D
eight and then you know, uh, you know, the modern
era seeing the timing belt be introduced. You know, and
that kind of occurred due to you know the proliferation
(01:40):
of overhead cam engines where you had a much longer
distance between the crank to the cam shafts.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Why not, Tody, Cody, Why didn't they stay with timing belt?
You know, they went, they went from chain, they went
to belt, and then now they're back to chain again,
and they're back to belt again. You know, why does
it vary so much? Is it? Is it the engine
design that creates difference in the need.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, the engine design and really the technology. I mean,
the biggest reason why we're seeing timing chain systems in
modern vehicles was the introduction of variable valve timing. So
variable vout timing is typically oil pressure operated, so you know,
with that being said, the vvts need to be inside
of the oil, you know, the crank face the oil back.
So you know, once the introduction of that technology kind
(02:24):
of took over, everything's shifted back to a timing chain
system underneath the time and cover.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So back up a second now, you know, forty years ago,
we'll use a small block Chevy. It was kind of
like a bicycle sprocket, right, you had a big gear,
a little gear. You know, it was like a bicycle chain.
You had a chain that you know, connected the two
sprockets together. Basic timing chain componentry. And then within the
last ten years now we have engines that'll have you know,
(02:49):
four cams and one crank or four cams one crank,
an idler attention or drive the water pump. You know,
all of a sudden, that timing chain is is the
essential backbone of the engine, right, and it's it's added
more stress and more it does more of a job.
(03:10):
You know, have has the amount of timing chain. Obviously
the responsibility of the chain is gone up. Do you
see more timing chain failures as a result of that
added stress?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh for sure, for sure. You know, like like you said,
it can drive with the four four cans, you know,
and sometimes you have multiple chains inside the engine to
do that. You know, a three chain system or even
a four chain system is definitely possible. So yeah, just
the demands on the modern system with the BBT operation,
like you said, water driving a water pump, driving a
(03:42):
balance chaff, driving an oil pump. Just the demands on
time and chain systems or are way more than they
used to be, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So if you know, in a shortened sentence of if
there's something the consumer out there listening or the shops
out there that are listening to get their customers to do,
what sort of maintenance can people do to help promote
the life of a timing chain Because it's not something
you can reach in and and grease or lubricate or
you know, it's not a it's not a service item
during the during the course of an oil change, for example.
(04:12):
But there are things that people can do to extend
the life of a timing chain.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Right Yeah. Oil oil oil is going to be the
number one, the number two, and the number three things
that they can do to uh, to to keep a
timing chain system healthy. Uh. The oil oil is critical
both pressure and supply the timing chains all need to
be properly lubricated. You have metal links, you know, combined
with metal pins you know, working together, so naturally, over
(04:37):
time there's going to be ware and then you know,
your your time and chain tensioners to keep the chain
tight and you know, keep keep instability from occurring.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They all require a massive amount of oil to keep
that chain you know, properly tensioned. And then like like
I mentioned, modern variable of out timing systems also are
are heavily dependent on oil supply. Without that oil supply,
you can get instability in that EVT system, which is
going to cause damage to the time and change system
as well.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So let's talk about that for a minute. You know,
let's we're gonna pick on Ford here and listen, we
could pick on any of the engine manufacturers. They all
have their issues with vv T. Ford has known issues
with their variable valve timing actuators. Now Kloise makes replacements, right,
and that's that's a pretty big that's a pretty big task.
It's not easy to go against Ford engineering and say hey,
we're making a better mouse trap, right, you know what
(05:26):
sort of engineering. You know, It's not like if it
happened on Monday. By Tuesday, you don't exactly you can't
have the part ready to go out the door. What
sort of lead time does it take? You know, Ford
decides you you start to look at engines as they
fail and break down, you know, is it is it
three months to market? Is it six months to market?
And and what's sort of some of the steps that
you have to go through to verify that what you're
(05:47):
doing is actually competent, if not better, And with cloys
it's always better.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, So kind
of in the aftermarket, we had the benefit of some hindsight,
you know, applications that were developed to have been on
the market for a while. We see the issues, we
see some of the solutions that maybe the OE manufacturers
come up with along the way to help those you know,
initial problems that the new platform may have. Being an
(06:12):
internal engine component, we're not coming to market with products
as quick as you know a break pad manufacturer may
may do. You know, a lot of times, an internal
engine component's going to be covered by the power training
warranty for for much longer than you know, most most
product lines are. So we've got a little bit of
benefit there. We've we've got time to kind of study applications, uh,
study you know, uh uh you know, uh fixes from
(06:36):
the oe manufacturer and come up with a good solution
when when necessary to correct some of these issues.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So do the manufacturers come and talk to you guys?
Do they you know, recognize you who for what you
are and who you are and say, hey, we've got
this problem. How can we make it better? Have you
ever had that opportunity?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Well, well, Kloy's is an oe manufacturer. We we've worked
with Forward and GM and Nissan and many others and
the past, so there is a relationship there. But yeah,
a lot of times we're looking at what they've done
on their own to find solutions in the aftermarket.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So when you know, Fords vvt actuators, it's a problem
right on the trucks and such are the engines that
I have. It is it the actuator itself or is
it more a case of people aren't doing you know,
the three reasons of or the three levels of maintenance
oil oil oil? Are they Are they doing cheap oil
changes and correct oil changes? You know, too long of
(07:30):
an oil change interval, and it's just beating the actuators
up and they don't work.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, it can kind of be a combination of everything.
You know, maintenance is absolutely critical. You know on the
Ford phasers that have the real bad you know reputation
on the forward like five point four liters three valve engines,
those those suffered a lot from camshaft journal where and
the VVT actuators are fed from the salinoid through the
(07:57):
camshaft journal into the camshaft and to get the oil
supply to the phasers up front, and a lot of
those we're suffering some camshaft journal where which is not
allowing the oil supply to it properly reached the DBT.
And then we did some things in the aftermarket on
the closure replacements to help in situations like that for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So in this day and age of tight supply chains, right,
it's a it's a it's a tight supply line out there.
You know. Today in the shop, we couldn't get oil filters.
You ever hear of a car called Honda. We were
out of Honda oil, you know, we couldn't get we
could and we buy them by the case. The supply
house was out of Honda oil. Filters for today, today
(08:36):
and tomorrow, probably won't see a shipment until Friday, and
you know at what point and how, you know, does
that affect toys? You know, you've got to get to
the stage where you're going to you know, you can't
get certain componentry and you're always sourcing, sourcing, sourcing. Have
you changed how you you know, create these kits that you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Make, Well, there's definitely been changes. Know, I will say,
Klois was you know, uh leading the industry when it
comes to fill rates during during the COVID you know
time period. They did a wonderful job preparing for it,
having multiple sources for for components, to be prepared for
situations like that and just you know, working on our
feet to to get you know approved, you know, pushed
(09:19):
products through the approval process, you know, to ensure that
we had parts to supply our customers.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, Yeah, because it's it's critical you guys are you
guys are so big. You know, you're like the unsung
supplier behind the scenes that nobody sees. And you know
it's when Kloise runs out of something, it's a problem
because a lot of the industry comes to a halt,
especially engine assembling without engines, we can't put vehicles together
and without vehicles, but we don't have an economy, you know,
(09:47):
new war views, right.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, we we we run into many issues where
the oe manufacturers were back ordering, chained. They were six
months behind, you know, six months turned into a year
real quick. And we were keeping vehicles on the road
just just on our own, just just because we had
parts and nobody else did.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I bet you. Hey, Cody, let's pull over, take
a pause, let me let me, let me ask you
to sit tight for a minute. I'm Ron Anie in
the Car Doctor. I'm here talking with Cody Smith of
Kloy's Gear and Product. We're gonna both take a pause
and be right back after this. Don't go away, and
(10:51):
we're back. Welcome back, ronnin Aenie and the Car Doctor.
We're here talking with Cody Smith of Toys Gear and Product. Cody,
welcome back, sir, thanks for sticking around. Can we talk
a little bit about replacement interval? You know, is there
a replacement interval for for timing change and components? Mean,
what parts fail first? Is there something the listeners should
be aware of?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, I mean there kind of is, and there kind
of is, and I mean chain systems will fatigue before
the expected lifespan of an engine, but don't expect a
vehicle manufacturer to provide you a replacement interval for you know,
time and chain systems like they would on a on
a belt system. Time and chain systems really aren't considered
by manufacturers as an internal engine component or they are,
(11:34):
you know, considered an internal engine component, so you know,
the interval is just not provided like like they would
on a belt. The expected lifespan, you know, kind of
greatly depends on the oil system health for sure, but
also the engine design and you know, demands placed on
the engine.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Is is it acceptable? You know, I mean, can we
get an engine to two hundred thousand miles and maybe
it doesn't need anything, but it's had, it's had the
three levels of maintenance oil, oil, oil, and then and
then and then you know the other engine, you know,
the other the identical vehicle at one hundred thousand miles.
You know, yeah, we went to ten thousand miles on
one oil change and we went to twelve on the other,
(12:12):
and then we did one at six and then we
did one at eight and yeah, it wasn't you know,
maybe we didn't use the best oil we could find.
We kind of didn't worry about manufacturerspect is that the
one that is more likely at the one hundred thousand
mile mark that need that timing chain or have a
stretch chain or guide failure and all the other possible
ways that chains go bad.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, But there's definitely other factors there.
You know, manufacturers are constantly trying to reduce like noise,
vibration and harshness and reduce you know, rotating mass. No, no,
two timing systems are the same, So you're naturally going
to find systems that don't hold up as well as
others do. So those MVH initiatives, they have a huge
(12:53):
impact on the design of a timing change system. So
some chain systems are just designed to withstand a little
more abuse than theres are, you know. And then you said,
of course oil change inter rules and maintenance is huge.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Does does coolant you know, correct coolant coolant service a
properly operating cooling system. You know, an engine that's running
a little hotter than it's supposed to, is that going
to have an effect on timing chain componentry somehow.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Some way, I mean it definitely could you know, I
would consider kind of the impact on the oiling system
when when you're speaking to you know, engine operating temperatures
and things like that, right, you know, so of course,
a good healthy operating oil system it proper. You know,
oil temperatures is going to lubricate better than you know and.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Otherwise, so everything everything comes back to maintenance, right, just
just just keep doing what they're doing. Oil change is
coolant service probably even fuel system cleaning, keeping the engine
running balanced and clean. A good PCV system everything comes
back to affecting oil life and uh and its ability
to lubricate and do what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And yeah, yeah, yeah, and you nailed it on the
PCBs them, you know, engines that have issues with PCV
or definitely you know that you're going to see hand
in hand TCV issues with with time and chain issues.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Sure, so Cody in our last in our last minute
and a half kloise. They make some common kits. Now, right,
what are some of the common engines? I mean, you
guys cover everybody, but what are some of the big
sellers right now that Cloys has come to market with.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Oh, you know, we've got a full Oe replacement line.
We cover over ninety percent of all you know vehicles
in the North American market. You know, of course, most
commonly are our heavy hitters are going to be like
the GM High Future re six that you know had
timing system issues from the start. The Ford three five
Ford three point five Eco boost applications and even the
(14:41):
front will drive three fives are are big because of
the driving of the water pump, and water pumps typically
have a little sooner replacement interval than the timing system,
so a lot of times the system getting replaced as
a preventative measure. And of course GM Eco tech is huge.
And then we still see a ton of the Ford
model deular applications, even though it seems like they hadn't
(15:02):
built that engine now in fifteen years, but we're still
still a bunch of those things.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, And I guess I guess that's because there's just
so many of those vehicles still out there on the road.
And you know, you can you compare the price of
a new pickup truck sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars to
the place of a you know, a timing chain overhaul
a couple of grand It sure makes sense, right.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yep, especially with the price of views vehicles and new
vehicles now right yep.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Hey Cody, where can the listeners go get more information
if they want to, you know, read more about Kloys
And may you possibly see you on your YouTube channel?
You big star you.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, Just visit our website at kloys dot com
our YouTube channel. Just just search Kloys on YouTube and
that should pull right up. And if you really want
to keep up to date with new you know, videos
and product offerings, you can join our shop master's community
on our website at kloys dot com. We'll send you
a news newsletter about once a month. We're not going
to fill your inbox full of clutter, but but that'd
(15:57):
be the best way to really keep up with what
we've gotten.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
New cool being Cody, It's been an absolute pleasure, sir.
We'll get you back again real soon. You have a
great rest of the weekend.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
You too, Thanks, Ron, You're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I'm running any and the Car Doctor. We're back right
after this. Don't go away.
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